AVCHD / MPEG2 (SD_VIDEO) support in Panasonic SDHC BD players & Viera TV (multiAVCHD)

[deank]

No, it won't work. The menu your players show is explicitly set in the MPLS file - nowhere else. You can add multiple avchd_xxx folders - only one named AVCHD will be recognized.

[jfcarbel]

If chapters are present your players REFUSE to play - that's why they are ignored - sorry.

Multiple titles can be harder to implement than it seems. A lot harder.

Title name can be changed - yes. At this point it should be multiAVCHD, right?

1. Actually in the logs it says, ignoring chapter marks, but I told muxer tab to insert them every 5min. I will test it and see if they work on my player.

2. Bummer, oh well hopefully you can get a player soon if more people donate and this will speed up your testing and maybe make it a bit easier.

3. Yes, its multiAVCHD. Are you saying we can change it in current version, or do you mean its something you can add in the future version updates?

[deank]

Yes, chapters are ignored forcefully at the last moment before muxing because otherwise tsmuxer output is NOT compatible when used via SDHC.

I will try to add title name (shown in Editor) to show on your TVs too.

[jfcarbel]

I will try to add title name (shown in Editor) to show on your TVs too.

ok, not a big deal, just wanted to make sure I reported back in case it was supposed to work so you could fix it. As of now, not really necessary much since we can only get one title on the SDHC for now.

[deank]

Can you run multiUPDATE and edit the title name in EDITOR tab and check if your player will show it?

Also if someone can post a photo of how Panasonic BD menu looks like and how Panasonic TV menu looks, too.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I guess the ultimate goal would be for individual files to be listed in the Blu-ray players (or AVCHD capable TV's) menu...

According to my (AVCHD capable) Panasonic TV's user manual, it's able to list files like this: -

http://i39.tinypic.com/2eunzar.png


Cheers all

[Atreide]

Update done. I don't have any editor tab. Will try to make a pic (have only Panasonic BD50) of menu.

[deank]

Editor tab shows only when you select to create MENU in Author tab. Despite you don't see the tab - your panasonic should show the name of the file you loaded. Can you check?

[Atreide]

OK, I had deactivated menu yes. Will check now

EDIT: Title edition is working just fine !

EDIT2: How do I insert the picture within the body of the message ? the insert picture button asks me for http:// URL

[deank]

Upload the image to some free image server like imageshack.us and post the link :)

[Atreide]

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3481/screenyou.jpg

The window preview actually shows the full video with audio.

[jbalsor]

I tried again with 1280x720 with recent build, this time it shows as a title but cannot play. It is 4.9gb in size MKV file. The player shows it is 1hr32min longs but just says cannot play and has an x beside the title in the menu.

Panasonic BT100 (US/NTSC): 1280x720p 23.976fps, AC3 6ch, no subtitles

the menu above is the same as my player

[jfcarbel]

I tried again with 1280x720 with recent build, this time it shows as a title but cannot play. It is 4.9gb in size MKV file.

I thought someone here mentioned that there is a 4GB limit for the FAT32 file system, so you might be running into issues.

[deank]

Please use INPUT files that WILL NOT BE CUT/SPLIT by tsmuxer while processing.

If such thing happens you'll have more CLPI/M2TS files in your card and IT WON'T WORK.

[WilcoBxl]

Just tested a (1280x720, 23.976FPS, AC-3 6ch) subtitled video : it works!! you just have to enable the subtitles in the panny OSD menu once the video is launched...Soooo happy! :)

(european BD-55)

[deank]

Great! I didn't expect subtitles to work! Great great :) :D

[SeeMoreDigital]

Great! I didn't expect subtitles to work! Great great :) :DI must admit neither was I.... given subtitle support is not mentioned in the AVCHD (Media Card) spec

[davsim]

I have just tested a 58m58s 720P HD video. I didn't watch the whole thing in realtime, but I scanned forward and checked sync every 10 minutes. It played fine and kept sync all the way through.

The source was the full video from my earlier test SD_TEST_DS002, but at a lower bitrate (3400 Kbps) to fit my 2GB card. The .MTS file was 1.7GB. Authored with the latest build 543.

I forgot to mention, in one of my earlier tests that I didn't post, I tried encoding at Level 4.1 and that video also played fine.

Also, on the subject of chapters and multiple titles, the camcorder sample SD_TEST4 did have four .MTS video files in the STREAM folder. It showed as one item in the Direct Navigator playlist and it played the clips sequentially. I used the chapter skip forward button and it skipped to the next video clip.

[deank]

Yes, chapters in AVCHD are not like chapter marks in normal Blu-ray, but more like scenes and each scene should be in separate mts/cpi pair, but the playlist (mpl) joins them in one title (or shows as separate, depending on the way data is put into the playlist 00000.mpl).

[deank]

Fatal #13 :) sample. (http://rapidshare.com/files/226008701/SD_TEST13.exe) (6MB)

I lifted title limit for Panasonic output to 16 titles. This test is generated by multiAVCHD with 2 titles.

Let's see if they'll show in your players.

Dean

[WilcoBxl]

Dean:

Menu shows up fine, with the 2 titles.
Launching the 1st title plays the 2 titles sequentially ( slight freeze on title change, but I guess there's nothing we can do about that :) )

great!


EDIT: if I set the subtitles on for the first title, they remain on when the second title plays - great²!

[deank]

Yep! In Panasonic user's manual we can read 'you can experience pauses between scenes', so I guess it is normal.

I can lift the limit to 40 titles (not that I see a point), but I still need some time to make index/movieobj generated for more titles.

It will be ready in some of the next builds. :)

[SeeMoreDigital]

The ability to add individual sources and have them appear as separate titles is great news.... Nice one :)

[Sanosuke]

I had tested the sample files at BD60 and everything worked but somebody tested on the TV?
It is very strange because if you generate a file from SD1, in both equipment the file works, but in case of the samples it just worked at BD. at least for me. Somebody already tried?

tks

[jfcarbel]

Dean:

Menu shows up fine, with the 2 titles.

Please indicate your player and model, thanks

UPDATE, found it in some posts above, nevermind.
european BD-55 - plays sample SD_TEST13

[deank]

I just finished my work on index.bdm. cpi and pls are ready, too. Just a bit for movieobj.bdm and I'll let you all test the results. I really hope it will work smooth.

[jfcarbel]

Multiple titles from SD_TEST13 working perfectly here on BD30 US/NTSC
- titles names show up in menu, and hey both are shows I watch too :)
- and when title1 ends then title2 automatically plays

So, Dean you may not need my donation for that BD player after all, so enjoy and get something else for yourself because you deserve it!

One other questions:

It sounds like doing chapter marks will actually not be possible since it will require you to cut the file ever 5 mins and them link the cut files all in a single playlist. Unless this can be scripted via tsmuxer

Also, I have a single 4.5 GB clip and I know fat32 does not support this, but by adding chapters for cuts, it would. So here is hoping its possible to do chapter cuts in the future.

Great work Dean, big thanks!

[deank]

Enjoy build 544.

Let me know if it works and what's the max title count supported by your players in this mode.

@jfcarbel: You can simply split this 4.5gb file 1st with multiAVCHD and then use the output m2ts files for 2 titles in Panasonic mode.

[dec-pvr]

Hi Dean,

So far so good.... The main thing I've noticed however, is that a "PRIVATE" folder is not created.

Anyways, I can confirm the following sources (with 6Ch AC3 audio) work with my BD35 and PZ81B TV: -

AVC Main@L3.0 - 1920x1080 @ 25fps
AVC Main@L3.0 - 1440x1080 @ 25fps
AVC Main@L3.0 - 1440x1080 @ 25fps with 4:3 ARS
AVC Main@L3.0 - 1920x816 @ 25fps

Great work ;)

Ok, so I don't know if I should quote from a different thread - but I figured it was related...

I'm just interested by what SeeMoreDigital said - mainly the last sample he said that works - surely that is a non-compliant size (1920x816)?

SeeMoreDigital - did you have to do anything special for this to work, did it play back in the correct aspect ratio?

Has anyone else tried non-compliant sizes?

Does this mean that non-compliant files could play from SD on a (panasonic) standalone, but not from AVCHD-DVD?

[jfcarbel]

Enjoy build 544.

Let me know if it works and what's the max title count supported by your players in this mode.

@jfcarbel: You can simply split this 4.5gb file 1st with multiAVCHD and then use the output m2ts files for 2 titles in Panasonic mode.

Ok, I will give it a try in build 544 once its up for download, :thanks:

[jfcarbel]

It is since I posted.

I refreshed but do not see links for build 544, are the older rapidshare 2.6 exe's just updated and I click on the same URL?

NEVERMIND- looks like a minor update and was pulled down by multiAVCHD itself.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Anyone?Just tried muxing 10No sources....

My BD35 sees all files and navigates thru' them perfectly :) Sadly my Panny TV can't see any of the files :(

Brilliant work Dean

[deank]

Thanks, SMD.

*edit*: I just updated multiAVCHD to build 545, using different approach when only 1 title is used, so it may improve Panasonic TV's compatibility with one title only structures.

Can you try with ONE title only with your TV? I guess there is something special, but I have no idea at this point. I think movieobj.bdm for TVs is just one simple Play command instead of using registers and fancy nav-commands.

If this works for most of you - I think my work with Panasonic is done... 2 months of reading, 2 days of testing and 2 hours of programming it.

[davsim]

Fatal #13 :) sample. (http://rapidshare.com/files/226008701/SD_TEST13.exe) (6MB)

I lifted title limit for Panasonic output to 16 titles. This test is generated by multiAVCHD with 2 titles.
Panasonic BD60 US v1.5 results:

SD_TEST13: Plays perfectly. Two titles show up in the playlist and play consecutively. Skip forward and back moves between titles. Subtitles work and stay on through title changes as well as after you go back to the playlist, then start playing another title again.

Amazing work!


Before I start sifting through all the MeGUI (http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=78) and x264 (http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=77) encoding discussions, does anyone have any detailed suggestions for the best encoder settings for optimum bitrate, image quality and Panasonic compatiblity?

[deank]

Well, you didn't need to test the sample... Just add your own files in build 545 and do your own compilation to see if it will work.

The upper limit is 40 titles (as in normal multiAVCHD mode). You can test with NC resolutions, too and see how it will go.

***

About encoding on your own, I'd suggest to keep ref-frames within standards' (BDMV/AVCHD) limits, bitrates < 24MBit/s and have your audio in AC3. Using standard resolutions and framerates is always a good idea. 2-pass encoding with bitrates about 15-20000kbps should give you the best you can get, although I won't go above 5000 for 1280x720 and over 12000 for 1920x1080.

[jfcarbel]

Works perfectly on the BD30 US/NTSC firmware 2.8 with my own MKV files many of which are 1280x720.

All titles show up in the Panasonic Direct Navigator menu and all work as expected. Great work Dean.

For all you folks using this feature now, I think its time to donate a little to Dean for a job well done.

Dean, I know you mention above that your work on Panasonic support is almost done, but do you think that it will ever be possible to implement the every 5mins chapters feature or might this require you to ask tsmuxer author to add the ability to split files every 5 mins instead of at maximum file size points?

It sounds like even with split files that they play consecutively without pause if they are in the same playlist.

[deank]

Yes, there is a bit-set for seamless connection in mpls/clpi files.

I'll think of it, but at this point I think you've all got a pretty nice feature already.

You can post in other forums about Panasonic SDHC support in multiAVCHD and of course I'll be glad if more people support multiAVCHD - I've put too much time in it already. :D

***

After all... if more people support multiAVCHD I can do another round in those Chicago bars I liked years ago :)

[jfcarbel]

Yes, there is a bit-set for seamless connection in mpls/clpi files.

I'll think of it, but at this point I think you've all got a pretty nice feature already.

You can post in other forums about Panasonic SDHC support in multiAVCHD and of course I'll be glad if more people support multiAVCHD - I've put too much time in it already. :D

***

After all... if more people support multiAVCHD I can do another round in those Chicago bars I liked years ago :)

Agreed, the feature set is quite solid now and chapters is really just a nice extra to have but not neccessary, so if others want this feature then donate, but I agree you have got us to where we really wanted for Panasonic support.

Hey, if you are in Chicago again, definitely PM me and I will buy you a few rounds myself. I know of quite a few cool places myself :)

[davsim]

Well, you didn't need to test the sample... Just add your own files in build 545 and do your own compilation to see if it will work.
BD60 results with build 545:

I just made a compilation of all the 5 source files I used for the single test clips I posted earlier. All 5 clips had different resolutions and framerates. It worked great. They all played in sequence, skip back/forward worked and all 5 videos were listed in the playlist. Fantastic work!

The 5 clips were:

1280x720, 24 fps
1280x720, 59.94 fps
1920x1080, 29.97 fps
720x480, 29.97 fps, 4:3
720x480, 29.97 fps, 16:9

The only minor issue I had was that the 720x480 16:9 video, although flagged as 16:9 by MKVMerge and shown as Display Aspect Ratio 16/9 in MediaInfo, was displayed as 4:3 and the multiAVCHD output .MTS file shows an incorrect Display Aspect Ratio of 1.5.

I previously used the force AR to 16:9 option in multiAVCHD with my single title test, but I was afraid that option would affect all titles, including the one that was meant to be 4:3.

As I said, it's just a minor issue having to do with Standard Def and I can easily plan to work around it by keeping my 4:3 video in a different compilation than any 16:9 Standard Definition videos.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Can you try with ONE title only with your TV? I guess there is something special, but I have no idea at this point. I think movieobj.bdm for TVs is just one simple Play command instead of using registers and fancy nav-commands.Just tried with one title and sadly my TV reports "No Valid File To Play"... Bummer!

[deank]

Force 16:9 won't do any harm to your other videos since they are already 16:9. Give it a try with the option with all 5 - it should work. (edit: sorry... I didn't see you have two 720x files...)

@SMD: with build 545?

[SeeMoreDigital]

SMD: with build 545?Yes....

[deank]

You may want to add other folder DCIM/MISC/AVCHDTN because output in 535 is exactly the same as in the samples and previous builds when using 1 title.

I just used fc.exe to binary compare index/movieobj and they are the same as before.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I've also noticed that every time I launch multiAVCHD I have to click on the "Author" tab and check the "Panasonic SDHC Output" option. I did not have to do this with previous versions.

Do you think my install has become borked?

[deank]

I previously used the force AR to 16:9 option in multiAVCHD with my single title test, but I was afraid that option would affect all titles, including the one that was meant to be 4:3.

Can you manually update with multiUPDATE and try with both 720x480 resolutions (4:3 and 16:9) without [x] Force 16:9 option. If tsmuxer recognizes them properly - they won't be changed by multiAVCHD.


@SMD: No, the option is auto-unchecked at each start. Manually update with multiUPDATE.exe and it be kept. Also Editor tab will be present always.

[SeeMoreDigital]

@SMD: No, the option is auto-unchecked at each start.Okay...

I'm off to bed now.... but before I go, I've just noticed that roman76r has provided an "Alpha Status" version of TSmuxer with MP4/MOV muxing ;)

Works okay with .MP4 sources

[davsim]

Can you manually update with multiUPDATE and try with both 720x480 resolutions (4:3 and 16:9) without [x] Force 16:9 option. If tsmuxer recognizes them properly - they won't be changed by multiAVCHD.
I updated, but I was already using build 545, so it didn't change.

I made new compilations with two files:

720x480, 29.97 fps, 4:3
720x480, 29.97 fps, 16:9

Without "Force 16:9" the 4:3 clip plays correctly and the 16:9 clip is displayed incorrectly as 4:3.

With "Force 16:9" the 16:9 clip plays correctly and the 4:3 is incorrectly squeezed to 16:9.

Again, the 16:9 file was manually flagged as 16:9 by MKVMerge and the Display Aspect Ratio is displayed at 16/9 in MediaInfo.

Even with "Force 16:9" the multiAVCHD output .MTS file Display Aspect Ratio is shown as 1.5 in MediaInfo, but it does play properly with "Force 16:9" selected.

This leads me to suspect there are two places where the aspect ratio is set. The .MTS output from multiAVCHD seems to ignore the input MKV aspect ratio setting and just set the aspect ratio from the resolution (meaning that 720x480 .MTS shows as DAR 1.5 regardless of whether the source was flagged as 4/3(1.33) or 16:9).

The "Force 16:9" setting seems to be setting a flag somewhere else in the authored file structure, which is why it can play a DAR 1.5 file properly as 16:9.

[espero]

Hi Dean,

Thank you for your great application.

Unfortunately it didn't work for me. I have Panasonic TV. I tried to convert some mkv to play it in the SDHC slot of my TV. Unfortunately "no valid file to play" appeared...

Here is the log:

[00:31:59] Log started for multiAVCHD v2.6 (build 545)

[00:31:59] Panasonic output for SDHC cards will include
[00:31:59] only 40 title(s).

[00:31:59] Processing 1 input file/folder.
[00:31:59] Temp folder does not exist. Set to c:\_TEMP.
[00:31:59] You enabled Panasonic SDHC output. Only 1 title(s) will be available!
[00:31:59] Converting to BDMV structure (C:\Archive\video\h264\BBC.Earth.Power.of.the.Planet.1of5.Volcano.mkv).
[00:31:59] Detected video: ID#1:V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC:1280x720 25.000fps (AR:1.78)
[00:31:59] Detected audio: ID#3:A_AC3:audio (48000Hz/6ch) Language: eng
[00:32:00] Chapter marks ignored in Panasonic SDHC mode...
[00:32:00] Creating Blu-ray folders (tsMuxer)...
[00:33:14] Done!
[00:33:14] Processing playlist (00000.mpls)...
[00:33:15] You selected NTSC system, but clip contains PAL video (c:\Program Files\_Video\multiAVCHD\AVCHD\BDMV\STREAM\00000.m2ts)
[00:33:15] It is possible that title won't play on NTSC players/PS3!
[00:33:15] Preparing authoring information...
[00:33:15] Top menu skipped. Playback will start from Title#1.
[00:33:15] Setting menu for 1 titles...
[00:33:15] Forced sequential playback from Title#1 forward.
[00:33:15] Completed.
[00:33:15] Applying Panasonic SDHC parameters...
[00:33:15] Renaming files to FAT compatible 8.3 filenames...
[00:33:15] Done!
[00:33:15] c:\Program Files\_Video\multiAVCHD\AVCHD folder created!
[00:33:15] Copy c:\Program Files\_Video\multiAVCHD\AVCHD to X:\PRIVATE\ of SD/MMC card.

Of course I put AVCHD folder inside Private folder on the root directory of SD card.

Maybe I am doing something wrong?

Greetings,
Peter

[deank]

[00:33:15] You selected NTSC system, but clip contains PAL video (c:\Program Files\_Video\multiAVCHD\AVCHD\BDMV\STREAM\00000.m2ts)
[00:33:15] It is possible that title won't play on NTSC players/PS3!

What is your player?

[deank]

This leads me to suspect there are two places where the aspect ratio is set. The .MTS output from multiAVCHD seems to ignore the input MKV aspect ratio setting and just set the aspect ratio from the resolution (meanung that 720x480 .MTS shows as DAR 1.5 regardless of whether the source was flagged as 4/3(1.33) or 16:9).

That's what it did, but I changed it so it wouldn't touch tsmuxer decision about AR (in clpi file). I'll see if I can add MKV AR to be set instead.