Blu-Ray~DVD Backup & Conversion

[jdobbs]

Preserving menus, yes. HD-DVD, No.

[Sophocles]

I've made some progress on BD Rebuilder, so it may not be too long before some of the Rebuilder VIPs get access to the beta.


I suspected that you were were working on or at least looking into BD to DVD-5-/9 backups (my first clue was that you told me as much). I know that a lot of people will be keenly interested in even your early outcomes.

[Paddy97]

I've made some progress on BD Rebuilder, so it may not be too long before some of the Rebuilder VIPs get access to the beta.

Wow, you are way further ahead then I ever thought. Following this thread daily. I am equally interested in the DVD -> H264/AC3 in a MKV profiles that you have talked about. Would make my mission to keep the kids DVDs safe a whole lot easier.

[laserfan]

Where do I sign? ;)

[Wolfe999]

@jdobbs: It's been some time since I've been in this thread, but the possibility that you make BD Rebuilder makes me very happy :)
I've donated a couple of times for DVD Rebuilder, so don't doubt that I' do the same for this new program, if you finally complete it. Anyway, thank you very much for making things much easier for those of us that know little to nothing of this things!

PS Just corrected some typos

[Discoboy]

Ready and waiting to test..... ;)

[oRBIT]

BD-Rebuilder? That's very nice news! :-)

[Easy123]

I´ve made some BD5/BD9 over the last Weeks using MeGUI,TSMuxer and some other Tools, but a BD-Rebuilder just sounds too good to be true. Would releave me from a lot of work if it works so seamless like DVD-Rebuilder did. Looking forward for a Release :D Great work jdobbs!

[G_M_C]

I just hope he has enough information to get the muxer/demuxer-part of his application right; Cause I think that will be the most difficult to code and get right/working properly :)

[Sophocles]

I just hope he has enough information to get the muxer/demuxer-part of his application right; Cause I think that will be the most difficult to code and get right/working properly

I remember when DVD RB was still in its early stages and couldn't handle multiangles/interleaves, but in time that got taken care of. Some of the advances will no doubt be incremental, but in time they will come.

[laserfan]

Then there's the matter of BD stb player compatibility. My first attempt using tsMuxeR and ImgBurn was not recognized by my player. :o

[Sophocles]

Then there's the matter of BD stb player compatibility. My first attempt using tsMuxeR and ImgBurn was not recognized by my player.

A few years ago there was a test done between computer HDPC players and $2000 players and the PC players won using either PowerDVD or WinDVD. Since then I've built my own and grew to realize the benefits of a home assembled system. There will be some compatibility issues with some systems and how they work with the method used to backup BD movies. I've only been doing BD backups for a short time and I'm having a 90% success ratio and some of my backups were HD DVD to BD. I am of course using only a home assembled playback system, and probably will for some time to come.

[G_M_C]

Then there's the matter of BD stb player compatibility. My first attempt using tsMuxeR and ImgBurn was not recognized by my player. :o

Haven't had any problems with my BD30. It has played all the BD5's + BD9's I've made; As long as I make them according to the specs given earlier in this tread.

Haven't tried DTS-MA or TrueHD though, so i can't be shure on that, but according to Duppie's research it should work (with some tricks). But I dont think it is worth it on BD 5 / 9 projects, imply cause the high bitrate requirements of these tracks force you to lower the video bitrate too much imho. DVD simly has not got "what it takes" for those high requirements.

[oRBIT]

Will the upcoming BD-Rebuilder support BD-50 to BD-25 conversion aswell?

[G_M_C]

Will the upcoming BD-Rebuilder support BD-50 to BD-25 conversion aswell?

BD-Rebuilder has nothing to do with support for different devices. It's the other way around, do those players support DIY BD9/BD5 ?

[jdobbs]

Then there's the matter of BD stb player compatibility. My first attempt using tsMuxeR and ImgBurn was not recognized by my player. :o Make sure you have ImgBurn set to output UDF 2.50.

I created a shortcut on my desktop that uses this command line:

"c:\Program Files\Imgburn\imgburn.exe" /MODE BUILD /BUILDMODE DEVICE /DEST G: /FILESYSTEM "UDF" /UDFREVISION "2.50"

I then select the output directory from TSMUXER and burn.

[oRBIT]

BD-Rebuilder has nothing to do with support for different devices. It's the other way around, do those players support DIY BD9/BD5 ?

I meant BD50/BD25 media. And If I am not mistaken, BD9/BD5 is a part of the blu-ray standard so it should work on all blu-ray players(?)

[jdobbs]

Will the upcoming BD-Rebuilder support BD-50 to BD-25 conversion aswell? You'd be able to set the output size to anything, including BD sizes.

[jdobbs]

I meant BD50/BD25 media. And If I am not mistaken, BD9/BD5 is a part of the blu-ray standard so it should work on all blu-ray players(?) BD-9 is included. Here's (http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=11392) a pretty good link with some useful information. It says both single-layer and dual-layer are supported. But it calls both "BD-9" which is a little confusing. BD-5 may be only AVCHD, but I'm not sure. It plays on my Sony standalone.

By the way, the documentation in the link says BD-9 uses a 3x spin rate as it's limitation (rather than 2x).

[G_M_C]

BD-9 is included. Here's (http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=11392) a pretty good link with some useful information. BD-5 may be only AVCHD, but I'm not sure. It plays on my Sony standalone.

By the way, the documentation in the link says BD-9 uses a 3x spin rate as it's limitation (rather than 2x).

:)

That is a very usefull link :thanks:

EDIT: I'm not shure about the 3x speed. But i'll expiriment with some DVD+RW's to see :)

[laserfan]

Haven't had any problems with my BD30. It has played all the BD5's + BD9's I've made; As long as I make them according to the specs given earlier in this tread...

Make sure you have ImgBurn set to output UDF 2.50. I created a shortcut...
Well I thought I'd done my BD5 right. Windows says "CD Drive, UDF2.5" then ImgBurn says "UDF (2.50)".

But then I notice ImgBurn also says its Book Type is DVD-ROM so that must be what's wrong? I burned it with my Pioneer burner, will have to try another using my LG instead. Thanks for the replies.

[Sophocles]

I'm ready for some serious BD to DVD-5 and 9 re encoding. I installed my new quad core Q9650 last night and overclocked it to a little over 4 GHz and began stress testing. It's passed everything so far so now's the time to give it a decent tryout for the purpose that I purchased it for.:D

jdobbs

Let us know when you have something to test. I'm assuming that you are working with X.264?

[jdobbs]

Will do. 4Ghz? Wow. :scared:

[edong]

Sorry for the intrusion. Using tsDemuxGUI, I tried to convert my MPEG2 file created using CapDVHS to capture from Sony HC-3. When I play the DVD+R in my son's PS3, it briefly showed AVCHD then blank screen. I used the default settings on the tsDemuxGUI. Seems the others have some success doing this route. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[laserfan]

...it briefly showed AVCHD then blank screen.That's what happened to mine (actually, my standalone player showed "Blu-Ray" briefly then errored) and I think it's my burner. Haven't gotten round to trying another burner yet. How'd you burn yours (software & drive)?

[Sophocles]

That's what happened to mine (actually, my standalone player showed "Blu-Ray" briefly then errored) and I think it's my burner. Haven't gotten round to trying another burner yet. How'd you burn yours (software & drive)?

I don't know how jdobbs does his but after the re encode is finished I use image burn to convert it to an ISO so that I can mount it and play it back to check for errors. If no errors show up then I burn with imgburn to my good old standard NEC DVDRW drives on type 5 or 9 Ridata media.

[jdobbs]

I bring up ImgBurn with the command line I mentioned in post#316. I then just choose the directory that was created by TSREMUX (I usually name it the same as the volume label) that contains the BDMV and CERTIFICATE folders.

I has worked every time for me. But I've only tried in on the one standalone player I have (Sony BDP-S301).

[Sophocles]

I bring up ImgBurn with the command line I mentioned in post#316.

Certainly sounds more efficient but I'm driven to check the result before burning.

I just converted The Italian Job from HD DVD to BD and it came in at 4.37 gb which is calling pretty close but it did burn to a single layer. The encode time took 4 hours and 18 minutes which suggests that I saved around 3 hours or so by moving to quad core. The movie played perfectly all the way through.

AT 4 Ghz my memory was running at 1145 MHz which is a little far out of spec although it seemed to work fine, and passed all the stress tests that I threw at it. To be safe before encoding I dropped the speed to 3.915 GHz which also allowed me to drop the vcore to 1.28V. The core temperatures never exceeded 56C so I guess it will do until I can get some 1150 RAM.

[laserfan]

I bring up ImgBurn with the command line I mentioned in post#316. I then just choose the directory that was created by TSREMUX (I usually name it the same as the volume label) that contains the BDMV and CERTIFICATE folders.

I has worked every time for me. But I've only tried in on the one standalone player I have (Sony BDP-S301).I made another DVD+5, this time using the clip "Coming Soon to Blu-Ray" and same result: my standalone recognizes it briefly as a BD disc, but then immediately "Disc Error". Using ImgBurn and UDF 2.50 and this time an LG burner, but my LG standalone doesn't like it (BH200).

If anyone here has any ideas I'm all ears. Seems tho that my standalone is incompatible--at least Cyberlink PDVD sees & plays these as BD discs... :(

[Sophocles]

laserfan

Outside of encoding and playing there's also media and burn speeds. What brand of media and burn speed do you use?

[G_M_C]

[...]
Seems tho that my standalone is incompatible--at least Cyberlink PDVD sees & plays these as BD discs... :(

I've allways made the assmuption that you have a Panasonic bd30, but I get the feeling that i jumped to conclusions .... so, sorry. What player do you have ?

[laserfan]

I've always made the assumption that you have a Panasonic bd30, but I get the feeling that i jumped to conclusions .... so, sorry. What player do you have ?

...my LG standalone doesn't like it (BH200).
I use only Verbatim DVD+R; don't recall my ImgBurn speed setting...I'll give that a look.

[G_M_C]

When i google on LG BH200 I get some messages that LG disabled playing AVCHD on their players as from a certain firmware. Maybe google on it more ...
See also; CLICK HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14366629#post14366629)

[turbojet]

BD Rebuilder sounds very interesting especially with the ability to keep menus.
Have you been able to keep extras too?
If so, untouched and/or encoded?

[laserfan]

When i google on LG BH200 I get some messages that LG disabled playing AVCHD on their players as from a certain firmware.Hmmm, I didn't know tsMuxeR was making an AVCHD-spec disc? EDIT: OK I did some surfing and it appears tsMuxeR is NOT making the AVCHD structure, but rather the BD structure my player wants, so the firmware caveat seems not to apply??? Maybe I should try tsRemux Blu-Ray output to see if I get the same bad result.


Also I suppose I could try reverting to an older BH200 firmware to check... :eek:

[jdobbs]

Interestingly my player reads DVD-5 discs as "AVCHD" and DVD-9 discs as "BD-ROM" even though they have the exact same structure -- go figure.

[jdobbs]

BD Rebuilder sounds very interesting especially with the ability to keep menus.
Have you been able to keep extras too?
If so, untouched and/or encoded?I've been successful so far. The beta release will determine if there are any skeletons in the closet (I'm sure there will be). One thing that won't be transferable is some of the audio streams like LPCM. Some of them are huge. So far I've been reencoding them as AC-3 and changing the associated tables to match. It's worked on the ones I've tried, but you never know if another disc or another player may catch something. The beta will tell all.

[mpiper]

So! When does the beta come out for us DVD-RB Pro users? I can't wait to take a look at this and see how well it works!!

Mike

[G_M_C]

So! When does the beta come out for us DVD-RB Pro users? I can't wait to take a look at this and see how well it works!!

Mike

I hope it isnt only forDVD-RB Pro users, cause i want a chance to seethe progress too. I hope the test is more spread across, for instance people who allready do this "by hand"; Or have commented in this thread/across this board, and from whom JDobbs might be able to get relevant feedback.

(Testers have to at least have a stand-allone player to test. Imho that stand-allone has to be a NON PS3, cause PS3 can play out-of-spec AVC's more often. Also testers have to preferably have a Blu-ray drive for in their PC's too)

[jdobbs]

I'll post a link on DOOM9 and also mail it to DVD-RB Pro users.

Testers have to at least have a stand-allone player to test You're right. I'll probably ask that any bug report be accompanied by the player type.

I've been pulled away by deadlines on my real job. Won't be able to get back to it for a week or so. It needs more work and alpha testing before I release it.

[Sophocles]

Testers have to at least have a stand-allone player to test

Then I guess that leaves me out since I have no intentions of replacing my home built system with one purchased in a store.

[JJB]

I have been watching this thread with great interest for a long time. If BD-rebuilder comes comes thru Alpha and is finalized as a release then I will have no choice except to update to a stand alone BD player, a BD player\burner for my PC and purchase BD-Rebuilder as many others will do the same.

I currently have a 55' Sony and a Oppo upconvert that makes me very satisfied with the viewing of my DVD collection but the thought of this makes me drool with future anticipation.

If anyone can make it happen It's jdobbs

[Sophocles]

I will have no choice except to update to a stand alone BD player, a BD player\burner for my PC

While I understand that many use standalone store bought players, I prefer to build my own. In my view homemade HTPC players are superior in just about every way imaginable to them when done right. I have two PC players at this time including one that is a BD burner. BD RB only requires a PC BD player for ripping, but it doesn't require a BD burner to work. The results can be burned with a standard DVD-+R, and then played back on a BD player including standalone players. I realize that PC players rarely suffer the playback flaws and glitches that are common in home units, and as a result pose obstacles to finding inconsistencies while still in development. I was only commenting that if having a standalone unit is a requirement for testing then I won't be meeting that standard.

[jdobbs]

I didn't say you would have to have a standalone to test. I was just saying I would ask for the type of equipment. That way I can distinguish what/where something needs to be fixed. My "you're right" was more aimed at the fact, as was mentioned, that a lot of non standalone equipment (PCs, PS-3, etc) may not require strict compliance. When I first started working on DVD Rebuilder I had an off-brand player that would play a piece of toast if you let it spin long enough. It led me down a couple of rabbit holes because I thought I was hitting closer than I was. You have to be careful and make sure it gets tested on the hard ones.

[G_M_C]

Then I guess that leaves me out since I have no intentions of replacing my home built system with one purchased in a store.

I didn't say you would have to have a standalone to test. I was just saying I would ask for the type of equipment. That way I can distinguish what/where something needs to be fixed. My "you're right" was more aimed at the fact, as was mentioned, that a lot of non standalone equipment (PCs, PS-3, etc) may not require strict compliance. When I first started working on DVD Rebuilder I had an off-brand player that would play a piece of toast if you let it spin long enough. It led me down a couple of rabbit holes because I thought I was hitting closer than I was. You have to be careful and make sure it gets tested on the hard ones.

Thats what i meant too, but i didnt come out right.

If you have a MMPC with a Blu-ray player, you could theoretically even play x264 L5.1 encoded MKV's straight of the disk. And you would probably be better of just backing up to Harddrive, since those are much cheaper per GiB.

Making backups for stand-allones is harder, since you have to make backups just the right way, so that players treat them as BD9 ... And some players are really fussy.

@ laserfan;
When I started making BD9's, the newest firware (1.7) for my Pana bd30 wasnt out yet, and my player was really fussy about disks too; In fact it stuck to the AVCHD standard like it was paranoid. The files i made HAD TO BE @ exactly 24.000 fps (not 23,976) and the audio HAD TO BE Dolby digital with max 640kbps.

I made a standard AVS-script where i opened my file and audio, converted the framerate and used SoundOut to make new audio-file, AC3 @ 640/448 kbps. After that I commented out SoundOut and started encoding the video. Use all the settings on Megui / x264 (watch vbv-maxrate & vbv-buffer etc; See some other post I've made) / tsMuxeR as usual.

Happily the new firmware helped out with my player, so now it plays allmost everything i throw at it (havent tried VC-1 yet, cause i have no samples; But i confirmed DTS-MA this week). So, indeed, downgrading Firmware might help on your part, else try making those 24 fps-versions.

The AVS I used looked something like this( Its very standard; In fact, you could cut & paste most of it out of the AviSynth manual);

Video=DGAVCDec ("the AVC file to open") <---- Can also be DGMPGDec ()or for instance Direcshowsource ()
Audio=Nic???Source ("the audiofile to open") <---- see NicAudio helpfile
Audiodub (video,audio)
Assumefps (24,1,true)
SoundOut () <---- comment out on video-run

PS: Make a small project, so you can use DVD+RW's to test; Saves making coasters ;)

[Sophocles]

I was replying to the line below.

Testers have to at least have a stand-allone player to test

I can see why that would be important since that is probably how most will be testing the results. I wasn't taking it personally and probably should have added a smiley emoticon to express that.:rolleyes:

If and when standalone players enter into an affordable price bracket and can come a little closer to matching my home built units I just might spring for one, but for now home built gives me so much more for my money.

This is the player in my HTPC LITE-ON Black 4X Blu-ray DVD-ROM 12X DVD-ROM 32X CD-ROM SATA Internal 4X Blu-ray DVD-ROM Model DH-4O1S-11 - OEM

This is my rip and player on my personal PC which is also really just another HTPC since it has a 24 inch Samsun S-PVA panel that can play up to 1920 X 1200.

LG Black 6X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 6X Blu-ray DVD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Internal Blu-ray Burner Super Multi Blu-ray Disc Burner & HD DVD-ROM Drive Model GGW-H20L

I needed the HD DVD so that I can convert them to BD as well, but the two players are serving me quite well for now.

[laserfan]

@ laserfan;
When I started making BD9's, the newest firware (1.7) for my Pana bd30 wasnt out yet, and my player was really fussy about disks too; In fact it stuck to the AVCHD standard like it was paranoid. The files i made HAD TO BE @ exactly 24.000 fps (not 23,976) and the audio HAD TO BE Dolby digital with max 640kbps.

I made a standard AVS-script where i opened my file and audio, converted the framerate and used SoundOut to make new audio-file, AC3 @ 640/448 kbps. After that I commented out SoundOut and started encoding the video. Use all the settings on Megui / x264 (watch vbv-maxrate & vbv-buffer etc; See some other post I've made) / tsMuxeR as usual.

Happily the new firmware helped out with my player, so it plays allmost everything i throw at it (havent tried VC-1 yet, cause i have no samples; But i confirmed DTS-MA this week). So, indeed, downgrading Firmware might help on your part, else try making those 24 fps-versions, and try that.

The AVS I used looked something like this( Its very standard; In fact, you could cut & paste most of it out of the AviSynth manual);

Video=DGAVCDec ("the AVC file to open") <---- Can also be DGMPGDec ()or for instance Direcshowsource ()
Audio=Nic???Source ("the audiofile to open") <---- see NicAudio helpfile
Audiodub (video,audio)
Assumefps (24,1,true)
SoundOut () <---- comment out on video-run

PS: Make a small project, so you can use DVD+RW's to test; Saves making coasters ;)
Thanks G_M_C for your comments. I'm using the .m2ts of "Coming Soon to Blu-Ray" preview (only a couple hundred MB size). Latest "coaster" for my LG BH200 was made with tsRemux. While the structure looked identical to the tsMuxeR (could these possibly be more confusing? ;)) the file sizes were different and it still didn't play on the BH200, while still played via PDVD Ultra (PC) as a Blu-Ray disc.

I have some DVD-RWs but need to pick-up some DVD+RW and do more trials. Thing is, I don't want to get too fancy about the conversions i.e. make them "fit" the BH200--would rather have the BH200 play everything it SHOULD and maybe will try the firmware downgrade bit.

[G_M_C]

Thanks G_M_C for your comments. I'm using the .m2ts of "Coming Soon to Blu-Ray" preview (only a couple hundred MB size). Latest "coaster" for my LG BH200 was made with tsRemux. While the structure looked identical to the tsMuxeR (could these possibly be more confusing? ;)) the file sizes were different and it still didn't play on the BH200, while still played via PDVD Ultra (PC) as a Blu-Ray disc.

I have some DVD-RWs but need to pick-up some DVD+RW and do more trials. Thing is, I don't want to get too fancy about the conversions i.e. make them "fit" the BH200--would rather have the BH200 play everything it SHOULD and maybe will try the firmware downgrade bit.


Actually, on the video-part of the story the 24.000 fps wasn't bad; It's the original rate it was displayed in the theatres. The thing that bugged most was the audio-part of the whole idea; I prefer a good DTS-track above an ac3 640 kbps-track. On my system (with an Onkyo TX-SR875 THX ultra setup) its an audible difference.

(PS: Thats also why i'm so satisfied with the succesfull test of a DTS-MA track :) )

[Sophocles]

If you have a MMPC with a Blu-ray player, you could theoretically even play x264 L5.1 encoded MKV's straight of the disk. And you would probably be better of just backing up to Harddrive, since those are much cheaper per GiB.


The purchase price for a type 5 disc is less than $.06 per gigabyte but a gigabyte on a 500 Gig hard drive is about 3 to 4 times that depending on make. I also prefer to do more than just store video. I want lead in and lead out, the ability to bookmark, as well as chapters. In short I want most of the functions one expects from a DVD or BD.

[Sharc]

@jdobbs
Will BD-Rebuilder also support the conversion of BD to standard mpeg-2 DVD5 / DVD9 for playback on legacy DVD standalones? Any plans?