Guide: How to burn Double Layer Disks with PgcEdit

[Mr.Bitey]

Hi All,

Ive baught myself a new (my first) DL burner (Pioneer 111D) for my upcomming birthday (who's a lucky boy ;-) this weekend and have been collecting firmwares and a small stockpile of Verbatim +R DL media in preperation :)

Ive been keeping some 5+ GB ISO's on my HTPC, which i created with dvd decrypter's READ-ISO (and anydvd in the background).. Upon doing some research into the burning aspect, I unfortunatly rather foolishly deleted the MDS files (sigh) having never needed them (and ignored LUK's numerous warnings) in the past :scared: .

In reading, it seems I have two choices when it comes to burning these MDS-less ISO's onto DL media:

1. Use imgburn by itself and go with its 'calculate optimal' for the layerbreak, click burn and hope im burning a good disc and not just my cash! :-) or;
2. Mount the ISO's and work with PCGedit as if they were ripped files and go about creating a brand-new ISO's with correctly determined layerbreaks.

At this point I havent mounted the ISO's to see if they have a cell flagged with a layerbreak which Im assuming imgburn would find and recalculate the correct sector based on the flagged cell - which I assume would mean I could use method 1 above?

Your advice (including some mandatory 'your an idiot for deleting the MDS files!' would be very welcomed!

Cheers,
:stupid:
Bitey

[r0lZ]

PgcEdit can't modify the IFOs on a mounted image, and therefore cannot burn the files directly. If you want to create an ISO with PgcEdit, you will have to copy the DVD files in an HD folder first.
But if you have the original ISO, ImgBurn should be able to find the original LB cell and propose it in its LB selection dialog. Try it!

[ux-3]

I have to report a strange problem which occured when burning a DL disk with the PGCedit & IMGburn combo. The DL disk contains 7 episodes. I have done a trace, to skip initial stuff and go right to the main menu. When starting the burn from PGCedit, I have the choice of two green layer break positions, one before episode 4 and one before episode 5. (lots of room still, so 4 can be on either layer). I followed the suggested LB choice. I later checked that indeed the LB is at the same position as the LB of the source.

Now here is the result: The disk plays fine up to Episode 3. On a Sony standalone DVD-PLAYER, it plays fine all through.
On a Sony standalone DVD-HD-RECORDER, 4 doesn't start and 5 to 7 enter about 2 minutes delayed.

I am trying to figure out whats wrong. I wonder if I accidentally deleted something instead of just skipping it.

I also did the next disk the same way and it plays fine.

Could this be caused by a bad burn? Why does it shift entry though?

Thanks for help
greetings
ux-3

Edit: used 7.2

[blutach]

Sounds like a bad burn. Have you looked at it on CD-DVD Speed/DVDInfoPro?

What media you using?

Regards

[setarip_old]

On a Sony standalone DVD-PLAYER, it plays fine all through.
On a Sony standalone DVD-HD-RECORDER, 4 doesn't start and 5 to 7 enter about 2 minutes delayed.I'd speculate that it's simply a case of your Sony standalone DVD-HD-RECORDER being less capable of playing your burned DL media than your Sony standalone DVD-PLAYER.

Just curious, what DL media did you burn and at what speed?

[ux-3]

Yes, I am suspecting the media as well. I scanned the disk using plextools but there are no signs of a bad burn there. Its genuine Ricoh DL 2.4x, not relabled, burned at 4x. I have done that before, but won't do it again.

I sampled all drives in the house and found more evidence to media problems. While all the readers can read it, some burners can't. I figure, this makes it a case for the media department.

greetings
ux-3

[blutach]

For mine, stick with Verbatims, at 2.4x. They seem to have the least problems.

Regards

[frank]

Set the Book Type to DVD-ROM!

[ux-3]

plex defaults to that

[Mr.Bitey]

r0lZ,

Thanks for the reply, i realise now im in the wrong thread/subforum for my query...

I'll give it a shot.. ive got blutach's excellent guide to fall back on if it all turns pear-shaped :-)

Cheers,
Bitey

[vandienk]

OK... here's the thing. I have already bought Verbatim DVD+R DL and now I am about to burn my first DVD and I definitely do NOT want it to be a coaster. So I have a few questions. 1) I have created the .iso with PGCEDit setting the layer break suggested by the appz. Now, I have opened ImgBurn to burn the iso, I have written the ABSOLUTE SECTOR layer break given by the log at the setting of ImgBurn. Is that ok? Or should I let the program do it all on its own? 2) According to the disc (media) specs given by ImgBurn, the minimum write speed is 2,4, but the options give me 1; 2; 2,4; etc. As I want the DVD to be played everywhere, which do you think is the best write speed? 3) It's also been recommended that the booktype should be changed to DVD-ROM, but ImgBurn DOES NOT list my brand of burner (Pioneer 109). What should I do there?
Thanxs a lot Pals

[setarip_old]

It's also been recommended that the booktype should be changed to DVD-ROM, but ImgBurn DOES NOT list my brand of burner (Pioneer 109). What should I do there?The Pioneer 109 AUTOMATICALLY sets the booktype to "DVD-ROM" when it detects DL DVD+R media...

[r0lZ]

1) I have created the .iso with PGCEDit setting the layer break suggested by the appz. Now, I have opened ImgBurn to burn the iso, I have written the ABSOLUTE SECTOR layer break given by the log at the setting of ImgBurn. Is that ok? Or should I let the program do it all on its own?
It's OK, but it is easier to burn directly from PgcEdit. This way, the LB sector is passed to ImgBurn directly by PgcEdit, and you don't have to specify it.
To burn an image already created on HDD, you can specify the LB sector manually, as you did, but take care: if you enter a wrong number, you will certainly burn a coaster. Also, don't forget to reset the setting to "calculate optimal" after the burn!
You can also leave the ImgBurn setting to "calculate optimal". If, per chance, there are several cells suitable for the layer break in the ISO, ImgBurn will open its own LB selection dialog, and you should be able to select the same cell again.

2) According to the disc (media) specs given by ImgBurn, the minimum write speed is 2,4, but the options give me 1; 2; 2,4; etc. As I want the DVD to be played everywhere, which do you think is the best write speed?
PgcEdit doesn't know your burner and media, and therefore cannot guess which write speed is really available. If you select a wrong speed, another one will be used.
I burn generally at 4x, but for a double layer, it might be better to burn at 2x.

[vandienk]

It's OK, but it is easier to burn directly from PgcEdit. This way, the LB sector is passed to ImgBurn directly by PgcEdit, and you don't have to specify it.

Let's assume, I choose this option. How do I do it? Because right after PgcEdit finishes setting the layer break and creating the .iso image, the popped-up window to launch ImgBurn directly from it closes and only the log window with all the commands and operations of PgcEdit is open.


To burn an image already created on HDD, you can specify the LB sector manually, as you did, but take care: if you enter a wrong number, you will certainly burn a coaster.

I was suggested here that the number to enter manually at those settings should be the ABSOLUTE SECTOR number suggested by the log window after the setting the layer break step. Is that right?

Also, don't forget to reset the setting to "calculate optimal" after the burn!

Where do I do that?


You can also leave the ImgBurn setting to "calculate optimal". If, per chance, there are several cells suitable for the layer break in the ISO, ImgBurn will open its own LB selection dialog, and you should be able to select the same cell again.

Does this mean that if I don't set anything MYSELF and just go to the next steps as they appear on the appz, it just burns the DL on its own for what it believes it's OPTIMAL?


PgcEdit doesn't know your burner and media, and therefore cannot guess which write speed is really available. If you select a wrong speed, another one will be used.
I burn generally at 4x, but for a double layer, it might be better to burn at 2x.

OK... This one I got it...

Sorry to ask you so many question, pal. But as you gave many options to work with here, I don't wanna mess and see if I can really burn it right this time. Thanxs a lot!!!!

[r0lZ]

Let's assume, I choose this option. How do I do it? Because right after PgcEdit finishes setting the layer break and creating the .iso image, the popped-up window to launch ImgBurn directly from it closes and only the log window with all the commands and operations of PgcEdit is open.
You have to tick the option to burn with ImgBurn. It will be launched automatically by PgcEdit.

I was suggested here that the number to enter manually at those settings should be the ABSOLUTE SECTOR number suggested by the log window after the setting the layer break step. Is that right?
Yes.

Where do I do that?
in the ImgBurn settings. You have changed the setting to specify the layer break sector number, therefore you have to reset the ImgBurn settings to the default value after the burn.

Does this mean that if I don't set anything MYSELF and just go to the next steps as they appear on the appz, it just burns the DL on its own for what it believes it's OPTIMAL?
Currently, ImgBurn cannot modify the layout of the files in the compilation, because it burns only ISO images. So, the layer break cannot be properly set by ImgBurn. This is why you need PgcEdit.

However, if you burn an image with at least one cell that is properly aligned and therefore can be used for the layer break, ImgBurn will use it if the optimal setting is selected. As I said, if there are several cells, it will ask you which one you want to use.

In the other hand, if you specify the layer break sector (either manually or by launching ImgBurn from PgcEdit), it will use the specified sector anyway, and the layer break selection dialog will not be shown.

Sorry to ask you so many question, pal. But as you gave many options to work with here, I don't wanna mess and see if I can really burn it right this time. Thanxs a lot!!!!
You're welcome.

[vandienk]

Hi pals...
It's me again. I have a new question... PgcEdit gives me ALL these cells as possible layer break setting. Which one should I choose?

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/8818/dibujo9fb.th.jpg (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dibujo9fb.jpg)

[blutach]

Sadly I can't see the pic at a decent size when I click on it. But if you read the guide and the text below the window with the choices, you will get more than a clue. Greens are entry cells and are the best.

Please read the guide and the prog.

Regards

[vandienk]

Thanxs Blutach.
My problem is that it gives me many green cells (all the ones at the top). And One of them is in the root title. Is it OK if I choose that one?

[blutach]

I am not sure what a root title is. If you mean the root menu, then it would seem reasonable, so long as your main movie title doesn't break at an aesthetically bad place.

Regards

[hsvham]

I have just begun using the PgcEdit/ImgBurn tools to make DL backups, and am seeing problems with *a few* (usually two or three) player lockups (I can usually get past these by advancing to the next chapter) when using my old Sony NS325 standalone player. However all of these backups seem to play perfectly on the DVD player in another computer (not the one I used to burn the backup).

My process: rip the original disc using DVD Decrypter. Open the ripped files in PgcEdit and write an ISO file using the suggested defaults, letting PgcEdit launch to ImgBurn to burn the DL backup disc at 2X on a NEC 3550 DL writer. I am currently using Memorex DVD+R-DL media.

My computer-based DVD player seems to play thru all these "trouble areas" just fine, while my older Sony NS325P player has the problems with the backups.

I have attempted four backups, the first one had a lockup just a few minutes into the disc (right at a menu action, as I recall) so I burned another one and it seemed to play OK. The next backup seems to be all OK. The 3rd backup had a single "grouping" of lockups at about 66 min. into the main program. The 4th backup had three groups of lockups, two of which were located at 61 min. and at 98 min. into the program.

It does not seem that my problems can be correlated with layer break, because they are happening at such a wide variety of places on the disc. I know about the reported problems with Memorex DL media. Why does my computer DVD player play these DL backups just fine while the Sony does not? I have already ordered some Verbatim DL media, but it is not yet in-hand to try.

Am I doing the right thing by just letting PgcEdit and ImgBurn use all the default / suggested options?

Any other suggestions (besides getting some Verbatim media and maybe a newer standalone DVD player)?

hsvham

[setarip_old]

If possible, try playing them on a different standalone DVD player.

You might also try running a DVD/CD cleaning disc on your SONY standalone. Maxell makes one that sells for approximately $10US...

[blutach]

I am currently using Memorex DVD+R-DL mediaThere's your problem - I'm sorry, I know you asked not to say this, but you really should use Verbatims to give yourself a better chance. I'm sure you'll have a happier story when these arrive.

Your PgcEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html)/ImgBurn (www.imgburn.com) settings are fine.

Regards

[setarip_old]

The poster is already aware of this:I have already ordered some Verbatim DL media, but it is not yet in-hand to try. and:Any other suggestions (besides getting some Verbatim media...

[blutach]

I know you asked not to say this
I'm sure you'll have a happier story when these arrive.

I know. But it is most likely the source of his problems.

Regards

[hsvham]

thanks blutach (and others) - that's what I suspected might be happening re: the Memorex media.

I just thought that (maybe!) it would work. So now I'll just burn thru the remaining discs (I only bought a 15X spindle of them for the first attempts) while I am waiting for the Verbatims to arrive, and maybe I'll actually get a good one!

hsvham

[Mr.Bitey]

If your just ripping, then burning - why not rip to ISO (making a MDS) file and burn straight away (by selecting the MDS file) with ImgBurn ?

Anyway - The problem you desribe is your standalone having problems reading the media. Your computer dvd-rom/dvdr is MUCH better at reading discs than a standalone (and can go back and re-read any trouble-bits without you noticing).

Use Verbatim media - as youve discovered, its not worth saving a few cents only to have a whole disc ruined (or 4).

Cheers,
Bitey

[r0lZ]

My computer-based DVD player seems to play thru all these "trouble areas" just fine, while my older Sony NS325P player has the problems with the backups.
Seems it's a compatibility problem with your media and the Sony player.
The Sony players are well known to have a very bad error correction, and they are therefore very sensible to poor burns on crappy media. The laser might be tired, too. My old Sony DVP-S725D cannot read +/-R/RW media any more, though it has no problem with the commercial pressed DVDs.

I don't like Memorex. Try Verbatim (or some Philips.)

[r0lZ]

If your just ripping, then burning - why not rip to ISO (making a MDS) file and burn straight away (by selecting the MDS file) with ImgBurn ?Burning the ISO is the problem, not producing it. Anyway, I suppose hsvham wants to modify the DVD before burning it.

[hsvham]

Most of the time, I would like to go straight to ISO, can I use DVD Decrypter to do this in one simple process, then kick off ImgBurn to burn the backup from the ISO file?

hsvham

[setarip_old]

Yes (As long as the original DVD doesn't contain "ARccOS" copy protection - which will require preliminary work to rip properly)...

[blutach]

And if it does, RipIt4Me (http://www.ripit4me.org/) can rip ARccOS DVDs in ISO mode. Very simple.

Regards

[bondfan]

Hi, I've just begun to learn about burning dual layer discs. I have had more probelms with DVD Shrink than DVD Decrypter, so I thought maybe I should avoid the shrink issue.
I downloaded PgcEdit and am a little confused with it. When it says to "open the project by browsing to the folder containing your DVD files", does this mean the original DVD you want to back up? I know it may be clear to most, but I'm not sure if it means this, or if you should run DVD Decrypter first?
Thanks for the help. I've used the Doom forum countless times for hassles with Shrink, Decrypter, AnyDvd, etc. You folks are great.

[blutach]

It means open the ripped folder on your hard drive.

Regards

[bondfan]

I must be stupid.:stupid: I ripped the movie with DVD Decrypter. Then I opened PgcEdit and click on the folder on my hard drive. It has two files, one is movietitle.iso and the other is movietitle.mds. I click OK and nothing happens. It won't open the folder. Am I dumb?

[setarip_old]

Doubleclick on either of the two filenames...

[r0lZ]

PgcEdit cannot work on an ISO file. The ISO is an image of your original DVD, and is read-only. You can burn an ISO, but not edit it.

If you want to edit your DVD files before burning them, you have to rip the DVD in file mode. In this mode, each DVD-Video file (*.IFO, *.BUP, *.VOB) is copied in the target folder. Open that target folder with PgcEdit.

[bondfan]

you folks are good! i've been reading and reading, but didn't see that (although i'm sure it's there somewhere).
thanks as always for your help.
one last question (at least i hope it's last): i have a ripped iso file of a movie. is there anything i can do if it won't burn with dvd shrink?

[r0lZ]

Mount the image, and copy the files somewhere to your HD. Load them in PgcEdit, and save the IFOs back. Process the whole DVD with FixVTS. Try to load the modified DVD in Shrink. It should work. Burn always with ImgBurn (http://www.imgburn.com/).
To mount the image, I recommend Daemon Tools (http://www.daemon-tools.cc/dtcc/announcements.php) (freeware).

[Rafterman]

Having just purchased my first DVD DL Rewriter(BenQ DW1655) and am going to try and backup one of my DVD's to a DL disk(Emtec DVD+R - RicohJPN D00-001). Now these disks are not cheap so I cannot afford to produce to many coasters. Anyway I checked this forum for some guidelines and got a nice guide using PgcEdit with Imgburn, mkisofs.exe and Decrypter. Now having looked at this method I have a few questions.

1. When you are selecting a layer break do you only need to select 1 layer break per dvd even if the dvd contains many of the examples as shown in the guide represented by the different colors, ie: select the green example if it exists and thats it.

2. In the guide it also mentions an app called Imgtools. What I would like to know is, do I need to use Imgtools and what is the difference between Imgburn and Imgtools. As I read it, it would appear Imgtools can be used to burn a DVD folder(Video_ts) whereas imgburn is used to burn ISO's???

3. rOIZ mentioned earlier in this thread it is possible to do a 1:1 copy from a DVD to a DL Disc using decrypter(ISO mode) so why does one need to do the stept as outlined in the PcgEdit guide concerning the layer break ect. Would a 1:1 copy using Decrypter with anydvd running in the background not work as well.

[r0lZ]

1. Yes, you cannot select several cells at the same time anyway.

2. ImgTool Classic can burn DVD-Video files on a single layer DVD only. It creates coasters if you use it to burn a DL. Forget it.
ImgBurn v1 was able to burn only ISO images.
ImgBurv v2 can burn DVD-Video files as well, including on a double-layer DVD+R (and even on a -R, but that's not recommended.) It has an interface similar to the PgcEdit GUI to select the layer break cell. You cannot preview the cell, though.
The PgcEdit method was needed to burn DVD-Video files on a DL-DVD with ImgBurn v1 (or DVD Decrypter). You can still use this method, including with ImgBurn v2, but you can also burn directly the files with ImgBurn V2.

3. You can burn directly an ISO image created by DVDD with ImgBurn (either v1 or v2). But you have to rip your original DVD in ISO mode. An ISO is read-only, so, you cannot edit the DVD. If you want to modify something before burning the DVD, you have to rip it in file mode, edit it, and burn the DVD-Video files with either ImgBurn v2 or PgcEdit.

[Rafterman]

Thanks for the explaination r0lZ, nice and consise. However I did run into some problems. I followed the instructions as laid out in the guide "How to burn Dual Layer Disks with PgcEdit". I completed all the steps but when I went to burn the ISO file I get the following error message when the job was 50% completed:

=====================================================================================

Device: [0:1:0] BenQ DVD LS DW1655 BCIB (G:)(ATA)
ScsiStatus: 0x02
Interpretation: Check Condition

CDB: 2A 00 00 1F 45 A0 00 00 20 00
Interpretation: Write(10) - Sectors: 2049440 - 2049471

Service Area: 70 00 03 00 00 00 00 12 00 00 00 00 0C 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 02 03 04 05
Interpretation: Write Error

======================================================================================

I also tried to do a 1:1 burn using DVDDecrypter's ISO Read/Write method and the same thing happened in the same place(50%) with the same error message. €20 down the drain. Would anyone have any ideas what is going on here and what exactly this error message is telling me.

The disks I am using are Emtec DL DVD+R(RicohJPN D00-01).

[blutach]

Change to Verbatims with MKM dye. Burn at 2.4x

Regards

[r0lZ]

I confirm. Most of the DL media currently available cannot be burned properly. Verbatim is well known to be constantly reliable. I have had success with Philips DVD+R DL media too. Anyway, since Philips is not a media manufacturer, it is better to choose Verbatim.

BTW, in which country do you live? IMO, €10 for a DL is really expensive. In Belgium, I can find good Verbatim DLs for +/- €6, although expensive royalties are included in the price!
You might try to buy your media via an Internet store...

[Rafterman]

Yes I concur it must be the media. I have gone through 4 disks now using different methods, all coasters. The one thing that was consistant was they all failed at 50% so the first layer burned fine but the problems arose trying to burn layer 2. I live in Ireland and normally I buy all my media online from SVP.co.uk. However as I had just bought a new DVD DL writer I wanted to take it for a spin. I went into Maplin in Dublin and the Emtec disks were the only Dual Layer discs on the shelves. A pack of 5 disks cost me 42€(8.04 per), so while not exactly 10€ a disk they were expensive especially as they turned out to be useless.

[ux-3]

Hi there, its me again with a very simple question that I only ask because trial and error goes at 2 bucks a pop.

Does PgcEdit work with the latest release of Imageburn (2.1.0.0 I think)?

Can I upgrade ImageBurn in the future without checking back? I have no idea how those two programs exchange data, so I rather ask.

Thanks.

Greetings,
ux-3

[r0lZ]

Does PgcEdit work with the latest release of Imageburn (2.1.0.0 I think)?Yes.

Can I upgrade ImageBurn in the future without checking back?I suppose so. Anyway, I'll continue to support the newer versions of ImgBurn, if the command line doesn't change too much, and I'm sure LUK will not change it too much! ;)

But note that ImgBurn v2 has everything needed to burn directly the DVD-Video files. You don't need to create an ISO on HDD. ImgBurn v2 has also an interface to select the layer break (without preview), and the 32K gaps and seamless layer break supports. You don't need to use PgcEdit to burn your files on DL any more.

[blutach]

@r0lZ - did you get my email about the potential issues with labelling? Something possibly wrong in a pointer in the TXT_DATA management field.

This had implications for ImgBurn (www.imgburn.com)'s auto labelling function.

Regards

[r0lZ]

No, I haven't received it yet. :(

[blutach]

Re-sent. :)

Regards

[Dr.Khron]

Ok, so if I want to take my altered VOB files, and convert them to an ISO image, can I just make the ISO directly with IMGburn?

Basically, I'd like to edit the files with VOBBlanker, and then make an ISO that can be burned with any program.