Guide: How to burn Double Layer Disks with PgcEdit

[cmurda]

Well, I really don't know! I don't understand this problem. Seems it is present only on a very limited number of computers. Maybe something strange in your system, such as a bad DLL.

Last thing to verify: do you have some foreign characters in the filenames or paths of your DVD or mkisofs?
No, but I do have the directory for img classic on my desktop and img burn under programs. Could this be the problem? When I dwnlded img classic I never separately dwnlded mkisofs. Do I need to? I also wanted to ask you about when I receive a message something to the effect of a problem with layer 0 when I open imgburn and start the burn after classic has worked its magic. I also am trying to understand the advantage of setting your own layer break. I'm sure many of my basic questions have already been answered but I haven't found them when I searched. I burn DVD to HD using dvd d ver 3.5.4.0, then use blautach's guide, i burn/iso in pgcedit after opening where the dvd has been burned to on my hd, then img classic comes up I put directories in and make image. I never get to step 7 in the guide. So far the DVDs have burnt well although some problems skipping a bit in my old samsung dvd players. Is my process here sound? Will the automatic lb's be acceptable?

[r0lZ]

Well, you must be sure that cygwin2.dll is in the same directory than mkisofs.exe. Might be the cause of the problem too. But you can theoretically put the files in any directory, if you avoid the foreign characters. Anyway, try to put it is C:\, just to be sure. It's more cautious. There are so many limitations in the way Windows handles the file names!

I also wanted to ask you about when I receive a message something to the effect of a problem with layer 0 when I open imgburn and start the burn after classic has worked its magic.I don't understand your question. What do you mean?

The advantage of selecting your own LB is that... you can set it where you want! Since with most standalone players, the playback stops for one second or two then the LB is reached, it is better to put it where it is not too noticeable.
Of course, if you are happy with the original position, you can leave it there.

[cmurda]

Yeah, my question is poorly worded. Here is the message from imgburn.

Optimal L1 data zone start LBA: None found! (VTS_02)
This image has not been mastered correctly for burning onto a double layer (OTP Track Path) disc. None of the cells meet the "DVD-Video specification" criteria for a potential layer break position. Do you want to continue anyway?

[r0lZ]

This message means there is no cell suitable for the layer break! Don't burn the DVD, or you will produce a coaster!

Have you generated this ISO with PgcEDit? If it's the case, then there is a bug in PgcEdit!

If you did the ISO with ImgTool, then it's normal: you cannot create DL DVDs with ImgTool, because it doesn't position the LB cell for you. This is why you need PgcEdit.

[cmurda]

This message means there is no cell suitable for the layer break! Don't burn the DVD, or you will produce a coaster!

Have you generated this ISO with PgcEDit? If it's the case, then there is a bug in PgcEdit!

If you did the ISO with ImgTool, then it's normal: you cannot create DL DVDs with ImgTool, because it doesn't position the LB cell for you. This is why you need PgcEdit.Oh, I'm messing up then. When I get to step 6. I make sure info is correct etc on the main burn dialogue screen then I press OK. When I do img tool pops up and asks for the source directories. I put them in and then after its over I go to imgburn. This is when I got that message. So, in step 6 after pressing OK, should I indeed see imgtool popping up or should I immediately be able to manually set layer break. I'm beginning to think I have a virus or spyware affecting my dll.

[r0lZ]

ImgTool is never used by PgcEdit, only mkisofs.exe. Mkisofs is available in the same directory that ImgTool Classic, but is an independant DOS program (without icon).

Maybe you have configured ImgTool.exe instead of mkisofs.exe in the burn setup dialog? Verify that you can see the imgburn version number by clicking on the Check Version button.
That could explain all problems: PgcEdit is unable to find the first VIDEO_TS sector, and ImgTool pops up when you click OK, because it is launched instead of mkisofs.

[cmurda]

ImgTool is never used by PgcEdit, only mkisofs.exe. Mkisofs is available in the same directory that ImgTool Classic, but is an independant DOS program (without icon).

Maybe you have configured ImgTool.exe instead of mkisofs.exe in the burn setup dialog? Verify that you can see the imgburn version number by clicking on the Check Version button.
That could explain all problems: PgcEdit is unable to find the first VIDEO_TS sector, and ImgTool pops up when you click OK, because it is launched instead of mkisofs.Thanks for the response. I think you are correct sir. I'm going to try to setup the directory in the burn setup correctly. Wonder if this was the problem with the other people's computers. Tell you in a second.

[cmurda]

Yes, that was exactly the problem. Now, I see the layer break. So, I guess I was bypassing pgcedit and having imgtool called on to creat the iso. So, if I created the iso with imgtool and went straight to burning with imgburn would I run into problems. The problem I've been noticing doing it the way I have been is that on the computer the burned disc plays fine but in my older Samsungs and the xbox I get skips and freezes occassionally. Sometimes to the point of the movie freezing all together. I'm trying to isolate whether the problem is likely caused from not so great media (Ridata dvd+r DL RITEK-D01-01), my dvd players, or the process I used to burn them. My wife laughs at me because I blame the DVD players for all my semi unsuccessful burns.

[r0lZ]

OK. Good to know.
Indeed, if you created the ISO with ImgTool instead of PgcEdit/mkisofs, the layer break cannot be set at the right position. The DVD should play on a PC, since the soft players are less picky, but a standalone player will probably hang when the second layer is accessed.
I will try to add a check to ensure that the right exe is selected.

[cmurda]

OK. Good to know.
Indeed, if you created the ISO with ImgTool instead of PgcEdit/mkisofs, the layer break cannot be set at the right position. The DVD should play on a PC, since the soft players are less picky, but a standalone player will probably hang when the second layer is accessed.
I will try to add a check to ensure that the right exe is selected.Oh, makes sense. But, sometimes the freezes will stop, play for a while ok, then start again in random intervals. Do you think this is still a byproduct of the layer break set incorrectly? Thanks for all your help.

As far as the exe check. Probably a good idea. There are others like me that seem to somehow find trouble in the simplest of computer related tasks. The message you need ver 2.01 does show but didn't give me a red flag. I took it as a reminder. Maybe if the message says no mkisofs.exe file found in directory, it would have clued me in.

[r0lZ]

Oh, makes sense. But, sometimes the freezes will stop, play for a while ok, then start again in random intervals. Do you think this is still a byproduct of the layer break set incorrectly?Honestly, I don't know. Maybe it's caused by wrong/cheap media? Or it's a side effect of the wrong LB position.

Try to fix the mkisofs path problem, and burn a Verbatim. Should work. But note that a DL DVD is always less good than a single layer one. It is fussy to burn the second layer, and even an excellent standalone player has often trouble reading it.

[cmurda]

Honestly, I don't know. Maybe it's caused by wrong/cheap media? Or it's a side effect of the wrong LB position.

Try to fix the mkisofs path problem, and burn a Verbatim. Should work. But note that a DL DVD is always less good than a single layer one. It is fussy to burn the second layer, and even an excellent standalone player has often trouble reading it.Point taken. I am going to switch to verbatim. Seems to be the best of the DL's for the price. Thanks for the great program and thanks again for your help. I'm going to browse around the other parts of the forum soon and learn some more.

[frank]

Originally posted by r0lZ:
But note that a DL DVD is always less good than a single layer one. It is fussy to burn the second layer, and even an excellent standalone player has often trouble reading it.I have investigated the case, and I think the main problem is the burner!
With Kprobe2 and Lite-On burners we can test the read errors of a DVD.

My new Lite-On burner SHW-16H5S burns basically the second layer in less quality! Best media was Philips DL. Verbatim DL 4x/8x result in much more read errors on second layer. Horrible!
But when I burn Verbatim DL on my old LG GSA-4163B then I get excellent results on both layers. (PIF < 12!)
On the other hand when I burn Philips DL on LG then I get bad results on second layer! Horrible...

[r0lZ]

Interesting! Do you know what's the brand behind Philips? (BTW, I've burned one good Philips DL, too, on a Nec. But since I have burned only one Plilips, it's a little bit difficult to conclude anything!)

[cmurda]

How can you determine the qualities of the burns? Burn errors on 2nd layer etc.?

Maybe burners are finnicky. I use a NEC ND-3540A. So far, the Ridek has been hit or miss and depending on the DVD player. Verbatim DL and Data Life Plus seem to get very good reviews, but I suppose the object is to find the right media for your burner. Verbatim may tend to appeal to more drives than most other media.

[frank]

Philips makes its own media.
Philips DVD+R Double Layer: PHILIPS CD2


Read quality means a low number of read errors before digital correction stages in the drive.
There are Parity Inner Errors (PIE) and uncorrectable PIE = PIF (PI Failure), PO.

PI (Parity Inner): No larger areas on the disc should exceed 280 PI errors, do not worry too much about high single spikes that exceeds 280.
PO (Parity Outer): No larger areas on the disc should exceed 32 PO (actually PI uncorrectable) errors.

More you can read at http://club.cdfreaks.com

Normally you cannot measure the error numbers.
But LiteOn drives (because of the used Mediatek controller) have a pin on the connector for measuring and Kprobe2 can read and show the errors!

[ux-3]

I am going to hang in here because I hope that my problem might fit into this thread.

But let me first thank rOlZ and LUK for the nice software they have created over time.

I have basically outlined the symptoms of my problem here:
my problem (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=111897)
Basically, I burned the manipulated files with NERO6 :eek: and got what I deserved, a faulty layer break. But more obvious: The disk does not go anywhere. If I use the remote and press menu, the animated menu comes but the buttons don't work. The disk has a good PIE scan, there should be no trouble from that side. If I burn the first half of the files to DVD+RW or use Nero recode for DVD+RW, the menu works.

From all I read here, it seems that Nero6 is responsible for at least part of my problem. The original disk has the layer break at the start of the third title, whereas Nero moved it 3 minutes further into that title.

I would like to know if Nero is also responsible for the broken menu at the start? I read some suggestion to this end in the 32K-thread.

If there is a fair chance, I would throw another sacrifical DL in the burner and see if it works that way.

Depending on the nature of the answer, it might better fit here or in my thread. Thanks for helping!

And while stealing your valuable time: How well do they plextools work when doing a DVD+R DL copy? Any information?
greetings
ux-3

[formyself]

Hallo,

I wonder if during the process of making the ISO with PGC-Edit also a MDS file is created ??

I have only used dvd-decrypter so far to make an image and to burn the image. Dvd-decrypter makes an ISO/MDS file.

When I use the ISO only during the burning process I have not a correct layer break point. When I use the MDS file together with the ISO then everything works fine.

According to me the MDS file is needed together with the ISO because this file describes how the media fisical needs to be writen/burned.

Please correct me if I'm wrong !?

[r0lZ]

No, PgcEdit doesn't create a MDS file. If you burn the DVD directly from PgcEdit, the LB position is passed via the command line to ImgBurn. Therefore, the MDS file is not necessary.

Also, you can safely burn an ISO image previously created by PgcEdit, even without the MDS file. ImgBurn should detect the correct cell in the ISO file, and use it. If, per chance, there are several cells that are suitable for the layer break, ImgBurn will open its own layer break selection dialog, where you can select the same cell you have selected in PgcEdit.

But do not use another program to create the ISO. For example, ImgTool cannot handle the DL DVDs, and Nero has many problems. In this case, burning the ISO, even with ImgBurn, can lead to problems, because ImgBurn will probably have no valid cell for the layer break.

[formyself]

THX for the quick reply.
I know that dvd-decrypter did not work correctly without a mds file.
I will try to use ImgBurn instead and i'm wondering if this indeed works. Since the dual layer are still quite expensive "try and error" aint funny !!!!

Again thanks for your help ;)

Tested it and indeed it works :)

[r0lZ]

I can affirm that ImgBurn works pretty well to burn the DL DVDs. It's even the only program I recommend, at least for now.
But you have to give it a good ISO. You can create the ISO directly with DVD Decrypter (in ISO mode) or, if you want to burn DVD-Video files, then use PgcEdit.

[formyself]

Hoi,
Again a very simple question !!
Does PGC-Edit always changes de ifo files by means that the date is changed?

I have compared the actual data with a hex editer and they are still exactly the same. The pgc-edit (new one) and the backup ifo's in de pgc-edit_backup directory.

The layer break was already pressent in de ifo file I had and therefor I believe no changes had to be made.

Cheers.

[r0lZ]

It is possible (and normal) that the IFO files are exactly identical when you burn a single layer DVD without the 32K gaps option, or when the gaps are not necessary because the VOB files are large enough. In this case, the VTS sectors pointers are computed exactly like IfoEdit's Get VTS Sectors, to place the files one after each others, without gaps.

But if the 32K gaps option is checked or you burn a DL-DVD, there is little chance that the VTS sectors are not changed.

Anyway, PgcEdit saves always the IFOs when the burn function is entered, to ensure the VTS sectors are corrects.

[redguy]

@r0lZ
But remember to reset the DVDD setting to Optimal before burning another DL, or the wrong value will be used!
do i have to reset to Optimal even if I use the same unmodified iso file?

:( stupid question i know :D , but just to be sure

[r0lZ]

You should not need to modify the ImgBurn settings. My reply is very old, and was in reference to DVD Decrypter. With ImgBurn, the method has changed. I recommend using ImgBurn instead of DVDD to burn.

Currently, if you burn directly the DVD from PgcEdit, the layer break position is passed to ImgBurn via a CLI argument, and therefore the ImgBurn settings are not modified.
If you want to burn the same ISO again (and the setting is configured to optimal) ImgBurn will analyse the ISO, and detect the layer break position. If, per chance, there are several cells that are suitable for the layer break, it will open its own dialog, where you should select the same cell you selected in PgcEdit.

You can also, if you wish, change the ImgBurn settings manually to specify the layer break sector. In this case, don't forget to reset it to optimal later.

[ux-3]

I just hit a case where the layer break occurs right at a cell, which is in double use (play all / play episode). I get two adjacent lines offered, (one with " in it). The top line was blue, the bottem line green. the top line was selected. I read the note offered by the programm, but didn't exactly understand it. I couldn't select both as layer break, could I? The text
In case of reused cells,all cells sharing the same sector number (noted ") should be colored if possible
isn't exactly clear to me. I left the selection on the blue, since I couldn't also select the green line directly below.

greetings,
ux-3

[r0lZ]

Selecting any line has exactly the same effect. What matters is the sector number, not really the PGC cell. Of course (unless you use the seamless LB option), the seamless flag will be cleared on the cell in both PGCs.

[vandienk]

Hi pals... I am having the follwoing problem.
I have just created an image file (iso) with pcgEdit and I set the layer break that the program suggested me with a blue line. However, when I get the log for the iso creation I read this:

Layer break is at absolute sector 1911552. (Offset in L0 is 7.)
Layer break cell:
1911545: VTST 1 , 1 TTN 1 (2:03:03) Title 1 Cell 9 (00:07:38.26), V/CID: 1/9 high mux rate

Now... Which number should I write in DVDDecrypter for the Layer break to burn the iso file? The absolute sector (1911552) or the cell (1911545)??

Thanxs a lot!!!

[blutach]

Welcome to doom9 vandienk

PgcEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html) will parse the sector automatically to DVD Decrypter/ImgBurn (www.imgburn.com). But it shoud be the absolute sector. Check it in the settings menu before you click the big green button.

Regards

[vandienk]

Thanxs pal...
I have already burnt the disc choosing the absolute sector and all. Now, When DVDDecrypter finished burning the iso file, it got stuck at a message saying synchronisin cache, my burner green light on as if still burning. It stuck ther for like 10 more minutes after burning... Believing I had gotten a coaster, I clicked on Cancel on DVDD and the message that the disc had been burnt successfully popped out. NOW, I played the disc on the computer first (same drive that burn it) and the film is OK, no problem at all. I inserted it on my sand - alone DVD player (Philips HT 5500 C) and the disc won't even be recognised. As soon as the laser reads there is a DVD, it stops and can't play it at all. I tried it on my DVD burner again and everything seemed fine. What IS the problem? The media is Ridata DVD-R DL. I read at a forum it was the -R that caused the problem, but I don't see how that can be, as I HAVE been adviced to USE -R DL instead of +R DL for similar "reading" problems I had with my DVD player and those types of discs.

ANY HELP WILL BE APPRECIATED.
Thanxs a lot

[blutach]

No need to "shout".

From DVD Decrypter:

Tools - Drive - Close - Disc

A log would be useful - you should make sure your firmware is up to date and you are using the best media - I recommend Verbatim over Ridata any day. This is probably the cause of your troubles.

And as for the advice to use -R for DL, that is phooey. Use +R for maximum compatibilty. A search of this forum will show you why.

Regards

[r0lZ]

DL DVD-Rs are absolutely NOT compatibles with the standard method to determine and set the layer break position. On -Rs, the layer break is ALWAYS at the same position, at the end of L0.

To have a good burn:
- Use only ImgBurn. DVD Decrypter is still an excellent ripper, but is slightly outdated as a burner. In particular, is is not recommended to burn DL-Rs.
- Avoid crappy media. Use ONLY Verbatim DL DVD+Rs.
- If you really need to burn a DL-R, you MUST examine the number of sectors in L0 with ImgBurn, and copy this number in the Burn Setup GUI. Then, you MUST set the DL Media Type to Dual Layer DVD-R, and you MUST use ImgBurn to burn it. Even if you do everything correctly, coasters are frequent with DL-Rs!
Next time, buy a standalone that supports +Rs!

[ux-3]

perhaps changing the book type might do the trick for DL+R

[ron spencer]

whay does anyone use -r DL? that media will be dead soon...just does not work. -r was more compatible for single layer media a few years back...but now +r is just as good

-R DL=waste of time and money

[vandienk]

Well pals...
I have to thank all the people who are giving me some information about this problem I have and I am definitely sorry for the capitals.
Now, I have a few more questions that come to my mind regarding this issue.

1) I was suggested that maybe the reason why my stand alone DVD player doesn't read the recorded disc is that it might NOT read DVD Dual layers, but then I think, Last week's DVD+R DLs burnt are played by the device, but this one is not. What's more, as soon as I insert the disc on the player, the laser gets kinda stuck at the reading and I just read the recongnised format "DVD" at the LCD display and then, the player becomes absolutely impossible to work. I have tried ejecting the disc, it doesn't work; tried turning off the device, doesn't work. The only way to make it eject is to unplug the player and when I plug it back, it just ejects it. Very weird!!
Another thing that comes to my mind is: I have always assumed original DVD's (DVD-9) were Dual layer discs, so if my DV player reads them, why wouldn't it read recorded ones?

What's more, I still keep inserting the DVD on the driver that created it and I am still able to watch it with PowerDVD on the PC. So I guess the incompatibility suggestion is the best explanation to why my stand-alone DVD player doesn't play it, but why doesn't it say NO DISC instead of getting stuck and behaving so weirdly (as described)

2) Let's imagine I now try to burn a new .iso file using ImgBurn (as it was suggested here - since DVD Decrypter is no longer updated) and I still use Ridata DVD-R DL (because I bought 7 of them). Somebody said that setting a layer break with this media is useless because the layer break is ALWAYS at the same place. So how do you suggest I burn it?

3) One more thing: If DVD-R DL are not compaible with more stand alone DVD layer. What other use rather than backing up a movie do they have? I mean, What else can they be used for?

I do hope you can still help me with all this and thanxs again for all the help.

[setarip_old]

Hi!Another thing that comes to my mind is: I have always assumed original DVD's (DVD-9) were Dual layer discs, so if my DV player reads them, why wouldn't it read recorded ones?The ability to play a commercial, pressed double-layered DVD has nothing to do with the ability, or lack of ability, to play burned media - single layered, double-layered, +R, or -R...

[blutach]

@vandienk

Well, use your 7 Ridata -Rs but expect varied perfomance and frustration.

To burn them, you must set your capacities correctly in PgcEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html)'s burn setup dialogue. Insert a blank into the drive and open ImgBurn (www.imgburn.com). Note the Number of free sectors and L0 capacity and enter those numbers correctly. Save your settings.

Then burn as you normally would - PgcEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/index.html) will help calculate the LB.

Regards

[vandienk]

Hi!The ability to play a commercial, pressed double-layered DVD has nothing to do with the ability, or lack of ability, to play burned media - single layered, double-layered, +R, or -R...

OK... That having been said, am I right to assume that since my stand-alone DVD player plays the two previously burnt DVD+R DL, it DOES read that format, but not DVD-R DL, right?

Thanxs for the help!

[ron spencer]

I have yet to see a player that will not read dvd +r DL and I have an 8 year old toshiba....booktype the +r DLs to DVD-Rom though.

I have yet to see a player play a -r DL consistently.

Chuck out you -r DLs and get +r DL....only choose verbatim and get a good burner like LG or Benq...all problems will be solved. Burn with PGCEdit/IMGBurn

[berrick]

Just to add my 5penny worth

nwg stated:
Nero is really only worth using if you don't change anything and do a exact 1:1 copy. If you change something. The layer change position will be very likely in a different position which Nero deicdes when burning.
Nero v7 will burn perfect copies IF, From my experience, you rip in file mode using DVDd then burn without modifcation using a good quality disk, the ones that worked for me where Datawrite with RITEK-D01-01 dye.

and
ux-3 stated
Basically, I burned the manipulated files with NERO6 and got what I deserved, a faulty layer break. But more obvious: The disk does not go anywhere. If I use the remote and press menu, the animated menu comes but the buttons don't work.
This is also the case with Nero v7 from my experience. I normally use PGCedit for the manipulation and till now Nero for burning and get DL dvd's that play L0 fine then jump then hang sometime into L1 and generally hang when tring to use the chapter menus.

I may have come a bit late to this but it might clarify a few points

Additional info:
Burner Pioneer DVR-111D and DVR-109
Player 5 year old Pioneer DV-626D

[ux-3]

simply don't burn with Nero... but I guess we all don't mind a guy doing our reserach at 2 bucks a pop... ;-)

[berrick]

I must admit i have found nero to be rather fussy about DVD structure compliance. I have found if the dvd im trying to burn opens without issue in PGCedit/vobblanker it has all ways "burned ok" have also used Fixvts on ocasion to check or correct.

I'm using NERO v7 not sure bout earlier version ;

But to clarify

To date using Nero v7 to burn an un altered DL dvd works for me in the circumstances i posted above

[blutach]

See here (http://www.digital-digest.com/~blutach/dl_burn_guide2/dl_burning_with_pgcedit_v2.htm) for updated guide.

Regards

[berrick]

I've bin itching to give this guide a try, but so bizzy at the mo, plus i dont like posting for help if i can help it. Knowing me i'm sure to have some question ;)

[dialysis1]

I just read the updated guide. I have one word.
EXCELLENT!

[campari212]

(del)

[frank]

Originally posted by vandienk:
...as soon as I insert the disc on the player, the laser gets kinda stuck at the reading and I just read the recognised format "DVD" at the LCD display and then, the player becomes absolutely impossible to work.
Because the LB setting or the file system is wrong (UDF) it wants to read information from non-existant sectors, or it cannot recognise the book-type.
...I still keep inserting the DVD on the driver that created it and I am still able to watch it with PowerDVD on the PC.A PC can use the ISO file system, or the UDF. The Windows OS has more intelligence than a stupid dvd player (access via file names instead of ifo pointers).

The whole trouble comes from pre-embossed/pre-written areas (with fixed information about L0 size) of the -R standard! (movie mafia)
To solve the problems with -R DL you have to climb over mountains. It is basically possible to burn -R DL DVDs with a changed Layer Break (Layer Jump method etc.), so the standard says. But the filesystem layouter MKISOFS doesn't support it (->predefined anchor point positions) and a big workaround has to be done (in ImgBurn and PgcEdit). Until now not solved.
But why? Use DVD+R DL.

[blutach]

The Windows OS has more intelligence than ... Never thought I'd see this in writing except from Micro$oft!!!

Regards

[frank]

Hey, I'm not a fan of M$! :D I meant file access via OS.

BTW blutach, can you change the title of your guide into "How to burn Double Layer Disks..."? Dual Layer is a bit misleading.
Dual Layer is used for -R DL and Double Layer is used for +R DL.

[blutach]

Yes - it really should be "dual and double layer", but I suspect most people know what we are talking about anyway, yes? And others might get confused as to why the two terms.

Regards