DVD ReBuilder: Known Issues

[geffroman]

Originally posted by geffroman
What I have learned so far.

Used a clean copy of DVD-RB Ver70 processed data that has the freeze. Made changes to data with PGCEdit.

By default DVD-RB removes the Layer Break by changing the Cell type from 2 to 10 (Adds Seamless link to PCI)

Results:
Cell Type 0 (SCR-No; Seamless-No ) = Causes ~1 second Pause at Cell change but continues
Cell Type 2 (SCR-Yes;Seamless-No ) = Causes ~1 second Pause at Cell change but continues
Cell Type 8 (SCR-No; Seamless-Yes) = Makes good transition then freezes ~1 second into new cell
Cell Type 10 (SCR-Yes;Seamless-Yes) = Makes good transition then freezes ~1 second into new cell

If I start with my original files and compress via Shrink with Layer Break removal OFF or ON, I get NO FREEZE or pauses. (So it can't be the raw data.)

Shrink Results:
Cell Type 2 (SCR-Yes;Seamless-No ) = Plays normally
Cell Type 10 (SCR-Yes;Seamless-Yes) = Plays normally

Something other than the IFO Cell Type is going on here. jdobbs... Any thoughts on this?

[redbaron2]

Originally posted by mchipk
I'm also getting that stutter/pause effects.

I'm using DVD Rebuilder V0.69 and V0.70 running QuEnc (one pass) and Msharpen filter.

So far I've tried with two DVDs: The Galaxy Quest, and Around The World In 80 Days. Both movies came out with stuttering effects on various scenes (found out later it was on the joint of each vob cell).

Some joints are more noticeable than others, for example:

Same scene no angle change(1000 frames of a guy riding a bicycle), and the joint of the cells occurs on frame 450//451, then you'll get a stutter/pause for a split second.

If the joint of the cells occurs in two different scenes, for example:
scene one, cell one(a moving truck)
//joint//
scene two, cell two(a flying bird)
Then you'll just get a slight stutter.

Lets just say, four layers change on one DVD, I don't think so.

Played the movies one two different DVD players(non sony) and also on my PC(raw data/movie on hard drive not burnt), they all came out with the same effects.

I've also tried encoding it with the Special Error Processing (checked), but the result is the same.

I hope there is a fix to this.

If there is a way to remove the cell IDs and keep the whole movie as one big vob file(no cell to join), then maybe there wont be any stutter/pause.

Hi,

I have the same problem. On each chapter/cell change I notice a very short pause. Its on all dvd's I backuped with RB. the only workaround for me is using dif4u+scenaid for the reauthoring step which takes a lot of time. the encoded cells of RB I put all together with dvdma*stro (export mpegfile in timeline) and the resulting file will be used for reauthoring after renaming. You may think why I don't demux the authored result of RB? Simple reason, scenarist refuse to work with the demuxed file... i think the reauthoring engine of RB works not correct.
In RB I use the procoder mode, the only reason why using RB, because the big3 don't support this.
all my dvds are pal.
If this can be fixed, RB is the best programm for dvdbackups.

If my post is a little bit confusing, say it and I try to get some structure in it, my english is not the best.

[lamster]

Since this is supposed to be a summary of known issues rather than a discussion thread, I've taken the liberty of starting a new thread for the "stutter/pause effects" seen with recent releases.

Please see the Stutter / freeze problems, DVD-RB 0.68 & above (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88984) thread.

[jdobbs]

I just want to make it very clear. I will not respond to any bugs reported on this subject that involves any external processing (pre or post).

If you remove a layer break -- you're on your own.
If you use IFOEDIT -- you're on your own.
Removed anything with another package -- you're on your own.
Menu, IFO, VOB edits -- you're on your own.

I have enough problems debugging DVD-RB, I can't chase leprechauns down rabbit holes.

[geffroman]

I hope you are not talking to me...?

I have been waiting for your reply and ONLY made changes to Discontinuity when you asked me to. I put many hours into testing with untouched data to answer your question.

So I ask again, what are your thoughts... or am I on my own too?

Thanks...

[jdobbs]

No, and I appreciate your input. I'm making that statement because I'm trying to save myself some work -- there are those who simply can't leave the source alone. Skim through some of the threads and you'll see what I mean.

[geffroman]

Gotcha... I understand... I look forward to any thoughts you might have on my issue when you get time... Regards... :)

[halpern]

When I click on Minimize Encoder (during encode of coarse) it doesnt minimize CCE and the status window is so small that half the time I can not see the values that are produced after the Prepare stage. Just thought jdobbs should know. These are minor issues but fixeable. Thanks :)

[geffroman]

jdobbs...

I just did "Without a Paddle" R1 NTSC. I got the Sony hang again on the main movie at transition from:

VTS_3\Chapter-2\Cell-6\VOBID-4 to
VTS_3\Chapter-2\Cell-7\VOBID-5

Once again this happens on the second Cell in the Chapter where there is a VOB-ID change. There is NO Layer Break here.

This kind of Cell and ID transition is common with Layer Breaks so people always ask me to play with the Discontinuity but I have always felt it has something to do with a Mid Chapter Cell/ID change that doesn't process well through RB/CCE for some reason.

I ran RB-70/CCE2.50 twice to confirm result on RAW data straight from DVDDecryptor. I don't mind using Shrink to do the movie if RB fails if I have to. It's just NOT KNOWING when this will happen and having to waste a disc and get half way through enjoying a movie only to find out I have a junk disc that needs to be redone that is so frustrating.

Kinda throws a wrench into the evening when this happens.

Movies I have not been able to resolve include:
Without a Paddle
Stepford Wives
Terminal
Around the World in 80 Days (Jackie Chan)

[ookzDVD]

I still got error 6, overflow.
Mummy returns R1.

Please read my old post for my setting. :(

[Trahald]

@geffroman
What are the two 'test' sony models you are using (just curious). Thanx

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by ookzDVD
I still got error 6, overflow.
Mummy returns R1.

Please read my old post for my setting. :( That was fixed in v0.74.

[geffroman]

Originally posted by Trahald
@geffroman
What are the two 'test' sony models you are using (just curious). Thanx DVP-CX875P and DVP-NS325

[ookzDVD]

Originally posted by jdobbs
That was fixed in v0.74.

Ok, thank you for the info. I'll try the next one.

[geffroman]

Originally posted by geffroman
I am having a freeze again... on several DVDs... It is happening more and more lately... Law and Order SVU... Law and Order: Criminal Intent... Law and Order Season 14... Terminal... and others...

Example: Terminal\Chapter 17\Cell 19\VOB ID 5

The player will play about a second of cell where the FREEZE starts... Then if you bump the FF button and back to Play it goes back to the beginning of that same cell and plays through without hesitation...

I am using a Sony DVD player that is very picky about DVD Spec... I use it to test all my back ups that way I know they'll work in the car or in the bedroom DVD players we have.

The problem happens when a chapter has more than one cell and changes VOB ID from one cell to the next... It can occur whether there is a Layer Break or NOT... It does not go away even if I play with the numbers in PGCEdit as everyone in the past advises...

I used to think this was a problem caused by using DVDReMake prior to running DVD-RB. So I have recently been using VOBBlanker on the Extras ONLY leaving the main VTS files untouched by anything other than DVD-RB and the problem keeps coming...

I use DVD-RB with CCE 250 and DGDecode.dll...

Any thoughts...? Thanks... @jdobbs

is the following a potential fix for my problem?

- Corrected an error in which the cell elapsed time was not being correctly entered in NAVPACKS. It was resetting back to zero for each segment (as opposed to each cell). This was reported to cause playback problems on some players. Hats off to gm901 for some outstanding beta testing and trouble reporting.

[jdobbs]

It's possible. I'm really not sure what the impact is -- except that it fixed a similar problem.

[geffroman]

@wmansir... I was unaware of the rules regarding this thread... I never saw the first post... I apologize for dumping all this mess in here... Please feel free to move all my posts regarding the multi cell/vobid in a single chapter Sony freeze elsewhere as is appropriate...

As to the problem... Ver 76 corrected the FREEZE on my test subject which was only three cells surrounding the problem area of the movie "The Terminal"... This required no compression of course... and the FREEZE did not occur with 76... However, when doing the whole movie with compression the FREEZE is back... I'll be reripping the data to make sure I have a fresh copy and post results...

[captain_video]

I had been having all kinds of intermittent problems using DVD-RB from public version 0.72 and above but I think I've discovered what the problem could be. I could never figure out why some DVDs would work beautifully with DVD-RB and some would giev me a total fit, even with diffeent encoders. I just realized that the problem may have been with me and not the program itself.

I have a habit of doing other things on my PC, like surfing the web, while DVD-RB or other programs are running in the background. I think DVD-RB, or one or more of the associated programs it uses, does not like multitasking with other apps. It likes to have the CPU all to itself and doesn't want to share.

While I haven't kept a tally of which discs worked and which ones didn't, I believe there is a pattern whereby all discs that I processed overnight worked fine while those that were processed at other times had problems. I'm guessing the problematic discs were processed while I was performing other tasks on my PC at the same time.

If you're having problems with DVDs that stutter and freeze up, leave the PC alone while running DVD-RB. I have an Athlon XP 2400+ with 1GB of RAM but newer and faster CPUs may not suffer from the same ills as mine.

[geffroman]

I reRipped Stepford Wives and Terminal. Started from scatch. I never run anything on my PC nor does it have Virus Scan or any other program running while DVD-RB is working.

Bottomline:

Terminal still demonstrates 2nd cell freeze at Layer Break.
Stepford Wives does NOT. Hurray

I just did Sharktale and it has the Freeze.

I guess I am going to give up on this issue unless someone smarter than me can help look into it. I don't have the knowledge or skill to solve it myself. I am meticulous and can test suggestions from some one who is knowledgable to solve the problem.

[jdobbs]

@geffroman

When you say freeze do you mean it stops completely or pauses momentarily (layer break behavior)?

[geffroman]

I think it is a freeze... Counter is not moving. If left alone, eventually my player will continue. I have never timed it, but it's over a minute. I suspect it's just my player jumping to the next cell though as it does this even with bad media. If it gets hung and you leave it alone, it will jump to next cell which in most cases is the next chapter.

[f@chance]

I ripped disk 1 of the Terminal PAL version. Stripped the audio tracks that I didn't want with DVD Shrink 3.2. Ran it through DVD REmake v 2.54 to hide the buttons that call the audio track and then used RB 0.77 to do the job.

However I havn't watched the back-up disk yet on my Sony 930. Can you tell me where to navigate to in oeder to see if the freeze occurs?

Thanks

[geffroman]

On NTSC Reg 1 it occurs at 2nd cell (Cell 19) of chapter 17

[f@chance]

Well, I just watched Terminal Disk 1 over the weekend and it was absolutely flawless on my Sony 930, no hitches whatsoever. However I did remove the DD 5.1 sound track and kept the DTS soundtrack in case that matters.

Sorry geffroman but I can't find the problems that you have perhaps the PAL version doesn't produce the error that you are experiencing.

[ookzDVD]

I can confirm that the latest Public ver. 0.77 still have problem
with CCE QPV.

I still got error 6, overflow.
Mummy returns R1.

Please read my old post for my setting

[jdobbs]

I will go out an buy the Mummy Returns R1 tomorrow. But before I do... did you do any preprocessing at all? I'm not crazy about that movie and if I buy it I want to make sure I'm catching a real error.

[ookzDVD]

@jdobbs,


did you do any preprocessing at all


I just rip it use DVD-decypter into .iso file and mount it use DaemonTool.

PS. You don't have to buy it. Just rent it.

Thank you.

[jdobbs]

I could do that, since it's just to test for an error. But, I don't want to give the impression that I'm illegally copying the disc -- rather than just backing it up. So that's where the donations go. On the positive side, it's building me a helluva DVD collection.

Also just so I can test it correctly -- what encoder/version are you using?

[ookzDVD]

I use CCE SP 2.67.00.23, EclCCE 1.81.

[jdobbs]

@ookzDVD

Well I bought the Mummy Returns DVD, R1 (it was only $9.99 at Best Buy). I ran it with DVD-RB v0.78, CCE v2.67.0.27 (that's the closest I had), ECLCCE v1.81. I ripped it with DVD Decrypter to an ISO, mounted the ISO with Daemon Tools and ran DVD-RB against it. All the settings were at the default (with 2 Pass VBR). It came out fine.

[EDITED] I reread the post and realized you need it to be done in OPV, I am now running it in OPV.

[jdobbs]

@ookzDVD

I just ran it through OPV with v0.78 and it ran fine. But, don't think get too uncomfortable... now that I remember it I made an undocumented fix (I can't remember when, but it may have been on v0.78) in which I'd noticed that on the "use CBR for segments less than 60 frames" code had leaked through to the OPV prediction routine. I knew it could cause an overflow when the 1% prediction came up to less than 60 frames so I corrected it.

So I think it has been fixed... but just to be sure I'm going to rerun the job with v0.77.

[ADDED] Nope. It ran fine with v0.77 also. Looking back at my notes -- the fix I'm talking about was documented and was the one that I added in v0.74.

Are you positive you didn't accidentally use v0.72 again on your last test?

[ookzDVD]

Sure, I use the ver. 0.77.

My setting is :
- QPV
- Steal Space from Extra (50%)
- Half D1 and Half Space for Extra

[jdobbs]

Ok, I'll try it with those options.

[jdobbs]

Originally posted by ookzDVD
Sure, I use the ver. 0.77.

My setting is :
- QPV
- Steal Space from Extra (50%)
- Half D1 and Half Space for Extra Ok I found the problem. As you probably know, when you have both of those options selected you are reducing the bitrate in half twice -- in addition to the amount it would have been reduced normally. So, if the main movie was reducing at 70%, you would cut that in half (with the "Half/Half" selection) to 35%, and then again in half with the "Steal Space" option. When done you would be encoding at Half-D1, but at a bitrate that was 17.5% of the original.

So.... when the OPV prediction tried to set a Q value for it, there was no Q high enough to make it as small as it needs to be. The routine just kept looping creating a higher and higher Q until the value was greater than an integer could hold. Overflow --> error 6.

I put in code to limit the predicted Q value to its maximum. It will be in v0.79.

[ookzDVD]

Dear jdobbs,

Thank you for your effort.

Bte, is there any way to donate without pay-pal ?
somehow paypal banned my country, so I can't register there.

Once again, thank you.

[jdobbs]

@ookzDVD

Check your PM.

[ookzDVD]

So, if the main movie was reducing at 70%, you would cut that in half (with the "Half/Half"

selection) to 35%, and then again in half with the "Steal Space" option. When done you would

be encoding at Half-D1, but at a bitrate that was 17.5% of the original.


Is the Half-D1 used for main movie or for extra ?
I think when I use the option "Half D1 and Half Space for Extra" it will encode the extra
in Half-D1 Resolution, and the main movie is in Original Resolution.
Please correct me if I was wrong. Thank you.

[jdobbs]

That's correct. Half-and-Half applies only to extras. But each time you add an new rule to apply it accumulates. So for extras:

1. All video on the disc that falls into the "not too small to worry about" category (movie and extras) will be reduced by the amount calculated in order to fit on the disc.

2. If you select Half-and-Half it will be applied against what was allocated based on rule one.

3. If you select reduce by 50% it will be applied against the result of rules 1 and 2..

4. Anything recovered from rules 2 and 3 are applied against the main movie.

It is possible to encode the main movie at Half-D1, but you'd have to use the AVS/Advanced Options to do that.

[wmansir]

Closed Issue #7 "DVD timer display can malfunction". This was resolved a few versions ago.

Closed Issue #8 "Audio drops out". This issue was also resolved a few versions ago.

[HarryM]

Hello peoples,

DVD Rebuilder has problem, if Extras are bigger (in size] than main movie.

I rebuild dvd "Schindler's List - 2xDVD edition". At second DVD I can't set Extras with "Half-F1 and Half Size" option (DVD-RB mistakely identify bonus video as main movie and paradoxly main movie as bonus video). I leave it as mean...

Rebuild phase isn't complete finished. Possibly caused, that bonus video have only one chapter(!) and this chapter is bigger than 2GB after reencoding.

[borgraf]

Originally posted by HarryM
At second DVD I can't set Extras with "Half-F1 and Half Size" option (DVD-RB mistakely identify bonus video as main movie and paradoxly main movie as bonus video).I'll throw in a tip in case you haven't considered it. To create the same effect you could resize the extras VTS to Half D1 in Advanced AVS Options, run prepare and half the bitrate with RB-Opt.

[bteamfox]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and new to DVD Builder Pro which I like very much. I have noticed on two DVD's one "Disneys The Princess stories Volume one" when I create an ISO image and mount using Daemon Tools, when I run DVD RB it displays VTS files 1-26. This is an episodal disk. Now if I use DVD Decypter again and rip as Files, then use DVD RB it only shows vts files 7-26,(all vts files are in the folder). When you then try and backup the message "doesnt need to compress image will fit",(or words like that), pops up. Is this a bug of am I doing something wrong? I don't think I have done any thing wrong. I have even checked to make sure that no boxes are ticked so RB should recode the whole dvd to fit dvd5. The Reason I want to do it as files is so I can use some program to edit out the Adverts, so my children don't see the toys! :) It's bad enough buying all the films they want let alone when they see the toys in the adverts. If this is a bug is there a way I can edit the ISO image? I tried this on another episodle disk Red Dwarf 3, and almost the same thing happend. Different vts files were missing from the file copy in RB but where in the folder. The disk are PAL.

I hope that's enough infomation for you. I can't think of anything else I can say. apart from -

When will you release the Pro version that will let me edit out the Adverts ;) :)

Keep up the great work on RB.

Cheers

Bteam.

[jdobbs]

Don't let the displayed files in DVD-RB confuse you. It looks at the source directory and (by default) only selects VTSs that are larger than ~50MB. This is because anything smaller is too insignificant to have any impact on the encode. The other files will still be present on your output disc, they're just copied intact.

If you want to change the threshold of what is processed and what is not, you can add the setting "VTS_MIN_SIZE=" to the [Options] area of the REBUILDER.INI file. It sets a point (measured in 2K sectors) at which DVD-RB makes the encode/copy decision. The default value is 25635.

[lark]

that's what i was about to say, but then i read bteamfox's post again and he is saying that using ISO image via daemon tools shows all the VTS files. shouldn't RB treat them equally?

regards
t :)

[jdobbs]

@bteamfox

Look at the two directories... do the file sizes come out the same for the file system directory and the mounted ISO directory?

[bteamfox]

Originally posted by jdobbs
@bteamfox

Look at the two directories... do the file sizes come out the same for the file system directory and the mounted ISO directory?

VTS Files are 1-24 not 1 to 26 as I said in my post above.

Double checked the sizes by using DVD Decrypter to decrypt twice once in ISO File Format and one in VOB,VTS etc.

.ISO,File size on the disk is-6.93 GB (7,445,168,128 bytes)
File Mode Rip,File size on the disk is-6.93 GB (7,444,549,632 bytes),99 Files
I unzipped the .ISO to a folder 6.93 GB (7,444,549,632 bytes) as you can see its the same as the rip in file mode.

VTS_MIN_SIZE=
I entered the above line in my .ini file as you said. The File mode was better it showed vts files 2-24. But I still go the message

"Warning@ The input directory is already small enough to fit on a DVD-5. No compression is necassary. Continue anyway?"

Hum... I have just looked at the number of files there are 101.

It appears dvd Decrypter has merged 2x 1GB files, (approx) to a 1 x 2Gb file,(approx) also it as rename some of the files.

Video_TS.VOB has been rename to Video_TS_MENU1.VOB both files 384K
VTS_01_0.VOB 362 MB (379,871,232 bytes) renamed to VTS_01_MENU_1.VOB
infact a lot of vob files are renamed in this way. Hold on I will attach a file with the Directory out puts.

There done :) I hope this info help to find out if it's a bug in RD or maybe DVD Decrypter.

Kind Regards

Bteam

[jdobbs]

I think you must have some of the other "processing" flags set in file mode... there are several of them.

[bteamfox]

Ah, Right! Sorry, I will go check and see if I changed something by mistake. Thanks. Glad it's not RD :D

[DK]

and (by default) only selects VTSs that are larger than ~50MB

rb happened to discard some of those small files with some of my conversions lately

is there any chance i can suppress this *behaviour*?

manually copying the files into the converted files-folder wasn't much fun

[jdobbs]

You can set the minimum size yourself using the VTS_MIN_SIZE= parameter under the [Options] area in the REBUILDER.INI file. The default value is:

VTS_MIN_SIZE=2625

The value is the size in sectors (2K each) that you want considered as a minimum for reencoding.

In most cases, though, what you gain is not worth it. The only exception I can think of is a disc that has lots and lots of small VTSs.

What manual copying?