Hardware discussion/analysis relating to software playback

[huhn]

i just looked at an random board first which was an MSI board and i assumed it was normal that it uses PCIe 3 so that makes two.

[el Filou]

what so ever the topic was a new card in a new spec.Apologies, I misunderstood from the replies.

Yeah I did not say that this problem was widespread, just that it happened. I wasn't aware there had been forward compatibility issues with GPUs and PCIe before.

@QBhd I also have an X-Fi Ti which is good news, but on Creative's subreddit a lot of people reported problems with the very recent AE-x series of card for example, in fact I first learned about it on that forum.

AMD's spec page for X570 (https://www.amd.com/en/chipsets/x570) says:Up to 16x PCIe® 4.0 Lanes [...] PLUS all of the PCIe 4.0, USB, and storage I/O from the AMD Ryzen Processorwhich clearly indicates PCIe lanes from the chipset can be 4.0, so I wouldn't be surprised if some manufacturers (especially MSI who was the first to provide a fix for the 10-bit tag issue) had limited the chipset lanes to 3.0 to avoid any potential issues.

[huhn]

i have an AE-X lying around somewhere.

the x570 is connected to the CPU (IO die) using PCIe 4 x4 so the max speed is PCIe 4 x4 no matter what.

in short zen 2 consumer has 24 PCIe 4 lanes 16 directly to the CPU 4 to the IO die for M.2 and 4 for the chipset (from the IO die).

it's quite complicated: https://images.anandtech.com/doci/14161/X570.png

[QBhd]

On my ASUS TUF X570...

AMD X570 chipset
1 x PCIe 4.0 x16 (max at x4 mode)
3 x PCIe 4.0 x1

So this confirms the 4 lanes from the chipset at least on mine. And also confirms the PCIe slots are all 4.0 when using Zen2 (3rd gen)

EDIT: Actually I think I am interpreting this wrong... that's 7 of the 8 available (based on the diagram above). My board has 8 SATA (Yes I use them all, LOL) so there seems to be lanes left on the table with this budget board.

EDIT 2: It's only 1 lane left unused? I do have the 2 NVMe (one from the CPU and one from the chipset)... UGH, I will agree with the "it's quite complicated" statement from huhn LOL

QB

[SamuriHL]

Seriously....it should NOT be that complicated but apparently is. I think I'll just....hold off a while before considering upgrading to something with a PCIe 4.x solution. LOL :D

[QBhd]

The PCIe 4.0 is not the complicated part... It's the versatility and customizability of the X570 chipset and how the vendors implement such flexibility. You just need to do the leg work and make sure the board suits your needs.

Edit: What nev said too :)

QB

[nevcairiel]

The PCIe 4.0 is not the complicated part... It's the versatility and customizability of the X570 chipset and how the vendors implement such flexibility. You just need to do the leg work and make sure the board suits your needs.



Indeed. And this isnt really new to this generation. But I guess there was less to care about before for many people. Motherboard picking has always been an art for me with big spreadsheets. :D

[QBhd]

Oh yeah, I spent the better part of a year deciding what X570 board to get. I originally wanted a Hero, but after really sitting down and thinking about the things I truly need, the TUF was the better option and about $250 cheaper....

Although, I really do like and want the new refreshed Hero Dark... Damn I just upgraded in March after 8 years on 990FX/8350... and now I want Zen3 and a Hero Dark... LOL

QB

[nevcairiel]

I'm currently looking at the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master since it ticks all my boxes, but i'm still looking if they release new boards until November.

[Manni]

I cancelled my 3090 order today as I made barely any progress on the queue this week and wanted the money back before I had to pay the VISA bill, given they weren't even sure they could deliver by the end of November.
I'll wait until early next year to upgrade the GPU, when I have more time and we know better what the options are. Hopefully a 3080ti with 20Gb in 7nm.
CPU-wise, I'm still waiting until Rocket Lake is out to make a decision between Intel and AMD, but still leaning towards Intel for now due to my specific needs.
I guess most people would lean towards AMD, and rightly so. Zen 3 looks very appealing.
I don't expect to have my new rig fully built until the middle of 2021 now, so I have plenty of time to decide.
I'm like Nevcairiel, I use spreadsheets a lot when deciding on components for a new rig... :)

[SamuriHL]

100% agree on doing the legwork. I do the same but I've not researched AMD solutions in a VERY long time. But I think it's absolutely time to do so. AMD has really done their homework and hit a homerun. Prices will fall at some point.

[Asmodian]

I am also not stressed about getting a 3090 right away, I will buy one if I see the one I want available but no need to rush.

AMD's ecosystem is still less polished feeling. Everyone has their issues but the drivers/BIOS/utilities for AMD are cluckier and more likely to have annoyances than Intel's (at least in my experiance). It has matured a lot since Zen1 but it is still a bit off. All in all I am very happy with my 3950X but I like a bit of tweaking of memory timings, etc.

Zen2 was really good and Zen3 is looking even better. It reminds me of Thunderbird.

I think AMD needs to charge more than Intel while their CPUs are better and have the market hype. If they ever want to be similar to Intel in the minds of consumers they need to leave the days of simply being the cheaper alternative to Intel behind them. Price is a strong indication of quality in the minds of consumers and AMD will probably be able to sell them even at the higher prices given their current positive buzz. I know I have been recommending AMD CPUs to friends who don't know AMD from Asus in a way I haven't been able to for decades.

[huhn]

The PCIe 4.0 is not the complicated part... It's the versatility and customizability of the X570 chipset and how the vendors implement such flexibility. You just need to do the leg work and make sure the board suits your needs.

Edit: What nev said too :)

QB

and if you don't do that and buy about a week after release you end up with a x570x pro like me. it has a semi passive chipset cooler see value or something.

[videoh]

AMD's ecosystem is still less polished feeling. I agree. One example is that they rely on a poorly supported OpenCL for GPU compute stuff. Open non-proprietary is wonderful as long as it doesn't suck. ;)

[butterw2]

Since it is Red October, I've ported the Reshade/SweetFx version of AMD FidelityFX Contrast Adaptive Sharpening to .hlsl (9 texture, 47 arithmetic). I don't know if it useful for video playback.

[NikosD]

Since it is Red October... It is...And it will become more Red towards the end, when RX 6000 are announced.

And one more thing...OpenCL went back a few years, the moment the Vice President of nVidia got the chair of President of Khronos Group which is responsible for OpenCL and all the Open standards.

He butchered OpenCL.

Probably oneAPI from Intel - which is surprisingly an Open standard - could save us from CUDA proprietary polished monopoly.

[videoh]

Probably oneAPI from Intel - which is surprisingly an Open standard - could save us from CUDA proprietary polished monopoly. Speak for yourself. I don't need saving from CUDA. In fact, I see it as a saviour.

[Cineaste]

My EVGA 3080 XC3 is still a ways off. Has anyone else been able to snag one? I stupidly sold my 2080 Ti when 30 series hype was at its peak. No GPU since.

[huhn]

Speak for yourself. I don't need saving from CUDA. In fact, I see it as a saviour.

how can something running only on one GPU manufacture been see as a saviour?
also there is direct compute and "Vulkan compute" kind of.

and what have AMD to do with the state of OpenCL they support it pretty well unlike nvidia and that's all they can do about it they can't support CUDA.

[SamuriHL]

My EVGA 3080 XC3 is still a ways off. Has anyone else been able to snag one? I stupidly sold my 2080 Ti when 30 series hype was at its peak. No GPU since.Ah man that sucks. No I've stopped bothering even trying at this point. I've read rumors that nvidia is holding supply back for November when it'll try to flood what it can. I'm not sure I believe that. In any case I've chosen to wait till next year unless one magically appears when I'm randomly checking inventory. Good luck!

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[NikosD]

Latest rumors for October 28th.

All GPUs announced/ released this year will be exclusively Big Navi21

There will be three:

Navi 21 XTX (AMD exclusive)
Navi 21 XT (AIBs - official flagship like 3080)
Navi21 XL

Navi21 XE for 2021

The Navi 21 XT has 2.4 GHz game clock (on average) and a TDP of 255W only.
It is the official flagship of RDNA2 architecture, like 3080 is the official flagship of Ampere architecture.

Navi 21 XT is the Big Navi21 that AIBs have in their hands and the one presented by Dr. Lisa on Ryzen 5000 series announcement.

There will be a faster version Navi21 XTX that AIBs know nothing about it, offered directly by AMD with even higher clocks and TDP of Navi 21 XT, like 3090 vs 3080.

The Navi 21 XTX will not be another Vega64 LC and Navi 21 XT will not be another Vega64, because Navi 21 XT is very close to 3080 with 65W less TDP, so there is a potential for Navi 21 XTX to reach or overcome 3090 with significant less power consumption.

[Manni]

Thanks for the information Nikos.

[NikosD]

I think Igor is right.

There was a misunderstanding between TDP and TGP for AMD and nVidia cards.
According to his leaks, Navi 21 XT which is going to compete with 3080, has the same power consumption from the wall for the whole card ~320W like 3080

The cards from AIBs are going to hit ~355W power consumption for Navi 21 XT
Maybe that is the reason that Asus and EVGA released BIOS of 450W for 3080 cards.

The Navi 21 XL goes around 290W.

The only thing left that saves RX 6000 from being Vega is that 3080 is actually like 1080 Ti and not 1080 and the release time of RDNA2 is not years later than Ampere.

Ampere and RDNA2 have actually almost the same release date, so users are going to select between them according to availability more than anything else.

https://www.igorslab.de/en/amd-radeon-rx-6000-the-actual-power-consumption-of-navi21xt-and-navi21xl-the-memory-and-the-availability-of-board-partner-card-exclusive/

[NikosD]

And now I have a bomb to drop.

If Navi21 XT is 320W and Navi21 XL is 290W, then this couple doesn't remind me 3080/3070 with 320W/220W but rather 3090/3080 with 350W/320W.

So, is it possible that Dr. Lisa showed us Navi 21 XL with 290W coming so close to 3080 and Navi 21 XT is actually faster than 3080 chasing 3090 ?

We have to wait a few days for such a bomb to explode, or not.

And what about Navi 21 XTX after all these ?
Does this thing have out of this world performance ?

[chros]

I don't believe that high power usage for navi cards, it can't be true, they are on a more advanced node without gddr6x! Well, we will see in real benchmarks.
And what about the rumor of 3600 with 6GB?! :D

[Cineaste]

I remember having to manually set Vsync in the Nividia control panel for 20-series GPUs, else it stuttered during playback without dropping/repeating frames. Is that still applicable for 30-series cards?

[SamuriHL]

Well, if you can get your hands on a 30xx card, you can let us know. LOL

[Cineaste]

Mine should be arriving within the next couple of weeks so here is hoping!

[SamuriHL]

Oh awesome! A lot of us have been itching to get some feedback from someone with a 30x0 card so that'll be great.

[Manni]

Mine should be arriving within the next couple of weeks so here is hoping!

My 3090 ordered on the 24th of Sept. was supposed to arrive on the 5th of October... I cancelled my order on the 12th as it was a bogus delivery date and given my place on the waiting list and the snail pace at which it was moving, it wouldn't have arrived until late November. Looking at the waiting list today, I still wouldn't have received it as only about 30 have been delivered (assuming no cancellation) in three weeks and I was close to 100 on the list. It looks like dealers are getting only a few units each week (and this is one of the biggest dealers in the UK). I hope yours is more accurate in their estimate!

Waiting for the 3080 20gb next year most likely.

[NikosD]

Back to reality...

Only one SKU with all Big Navi21 80CUs enabled - the RX 6900 XT with Navi 21 XTX

The good news are that this card will be announced on October 28th, but as AMD exclusive initially.

Two more cards 6800/6800XT will be announced on October 28th available from AIBs besides AMD.

There are rumors that RDNA2 cards will be manufactured using 7nm TSMC with EUV.

Navi 22 cards will be RX 6700/RX 6700XT available from January 2021.

My first reaction before seeing any benchmark is to buy this year RX 6800

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-rx-6900xt-to-feature-navi-21-xtx-gpu-with-80-cus

[huhn]

My first reaction before seeing any benchmark is to buy this year RX 6800

You are an Intel fanatic and anti-AMD fanatic.
That's why you cared so much replying to me with a huge post.

...

...

Posts like this one above make me wanna write even more about this subject.
Posts from nVidiatel fanatics.

these levels of hypocrite. i love it.

[videoh]

Let it go. NikosD has been very reasonable in the last few weeks and seems to have reformed his ways. His posts are useful and informative.

[huhn]

take it as a you should wait for benchmarks just like with every other product as he sad pretty much yourself.

[QBhd]

Rumor Mills and Hype... it's always an easy trap to fall into, and some users do unfortunately. I agree with videoh, NickosD has been very level headed with his news lately.

As for the upcoming AMD GPU's, I think they will be very competitive and very close to nVIDIA... I am eagerly awaiting the reviews, since this could be a great time for AMD. Time will tell, but there is definitely more than blind hope this time around :)

QB

[huhn]

benchmarks will show.

i really need a HDMI 2.1 GPU for a week now...

[NikosD]

If the price of the Top Big Navi21 RX 6900 XT is below 1000 € Ι'll probably buy two of these sweeties.

One for me and one for my brother's system.

With a performance close to 3090 or slightly better, these RX 6900 XT cards will be a bargain.

And probably the availability, although limited, will be real this time on the contrary of another recent release.

[SamuriHL]

That's still speculation. It's ASSUMED that AMD will have a real product launch, but, the proof is in the delivery. It's all well and good to say that it'll be better before the product is even officially announced, but, that speculation is about as useful as a 3090 pre-order. (Sorry, Manni, too soon? :D) AMD has a history of being long on hype and short on delivery when it comes to GPUs. Not that you have a choice anyway, but, wait til launch and see what the reality is. We know that nVidia hyped a few things and glossed over others with their launch. It's likely AMD will do the same so until they get into hot little hands of trusted reviewers and not shills, the jury will be out. IMO, the jury's still out on nVidia, as well, because they've yet to launch the Ampere. LOL

[Manni]

No, not too soon, I couldn't care less. It was worth a try, wasn't it? :)

[SamuriHL]

You aren't going to like this latest rumor either....

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-allegedly-cancels-geforce-rtx-3080-20gb-and-rtx-3070-16gb

Come on, nVidia, get your S*** together!

[Manni]

You aren't going to like this latest rumor either....

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-allegedly-cancels-geforce-rtx-3080-20gb-and-rtx-3070-16gb

Come on, nVidia, get your S*** together!

Thanks.

No, not really, I was just thinking of going back to my initial 3090 plan, but a different model, most likely the Asus 3090 TUF OC as I like the idea of the “silent” bios option and the two HDMI outputs.

[Asmodian]

They don't really have the chips to put in extra SKUs anyway. :p

[nevcairiel]

A rumored cancelation of a rumored model? Maybe it never existed in the first place? :P
Or its simply being replaced by another SKU, perhaps Super models on TSMC 7nm are coming earlier then expected.

Nothing was ever set in stone on those, so plans changing is not that unexpected.

[SamuriHL]

I don't particularly care about unannounced rumored cards. But nVidia CLAIMS they've actually launched Ampere, but, I've yet to actually find anyone who can confirm such wild speculation on nVidia's part. :D

[videoh]

But nVidia CLAIMS they've actually launched Ampere, but, I've yet to actually find anyone who can confirm such wild speculation on nVidia's part. Help me out. What exactly are you trying to say? You think reviews like the following are just invented with non-existent cards and silicon? Or are you being cute? If you mean they are hard to get your hands on, that is not the same as having not launched.

https://hothardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-ampere-gpu-review

[SamuriHL]

Good lord, it's a joke. Mostly. Obviously a handful of reviewers got their hands on actual hardware. But if no real people can buy it, can you call that a launch? Really? When the biggest stores are getting at most a couple dozen a week, that can hardly be called a launch.

[Cineaste]

Help me out. What exactly are you trying to say? You think reviews like the following are just invented with non-existent cards and silicon? Or are you being cute? If you mean they are hard to get your hands on, that is not the same as having not launched.

https://hothardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-ampere-gpu-review

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/992/401/e37.png

[Alexkral]

Not sure, I've seen some very expensive RTX 3080 drawings on ebay. :D

[SamuriHL]

Touche!!! :D LOL!!!!

[videoh]

When y'all grow up you'll know what real humor is. Praying for you.