Display Calibration

[Damien147]

Hello!

Beyond calibrating my SDR TV I have created an HDR to SDR lut with displaycal's video 3DLut for Madvr HDR using default settings and in Madvr I've set 100 peak nits like my SDR calibration.Have I done things right?





Madvr peak nits on hdr 3dlut tab doesn't seem to work.Picture looks dim and long story short in displaycal's target peak luminance I had to put 100 nits,right?

[Asmodian]

Right, the 3DLUT does all the work when you use it.

[Damien147]

I did it and picture looks fine now,thank you.

[Damien147]

When you calibrate grayscale for TV levels(16-235) you set gpu 16-235 Madvr 0-255 and TV at 16-235?

[huhn]

if you want to use the device in that mode yes.

if the software you use to calibrate can output 16-235 you could use full range onm the GPU too.

[Damien147]

I tried with everything on 16-235 but my meter couldn't read 10 point and suspected it was that because I've read it in the past but wasn't sure.It's just for normal channel watching,thank you.

[Damien147]

2 point went fine it seems but 10 point calibration failed.It's like TV's sliders not working.

Trying to calibrate for TV levels.
TV set to 16-235,madvr set to 0-255,gpu set to 16-235(YCbCr 4:2:0)
Hcfr and colorHCFR windows 10% patterns.
After calibrating 2 point with 30% and 100% patterns I went to 10 point starting from 100%.
From 100% to 10% HCFR RGB levels stay the same like my TV's sliders aren't working.I don't see a difference also by eye when I adjust.
I did something wrong or my TV has some kind of a bug with 10 point?

[huhn]

I did something wrong or my TV has some kind of a bug with 10 point?

both are possibile. i'm in the blind here ahcfr user should do a far better job at helping you then me.
i use paint to do a grey scale don't think about it.

It's just for normal channel watching,thank you.
than you should use madVR full range and GPU limited or just YCBCR output.

[Damien147]

PC mode(0-255) calibration went just fine and that's what matters to me.Calibrating for TV levels comes second but why not now that I have a meter.

[aufkrawall]

Anybody got an idea why I have to set black output offset to 100% in DisplayCal's 3D LUT generator in order to prevent washed out results?
Calibration was done with default gamma 2.2 profile, but with gamma changed to 2.4 relative and 6500k white point (well calibrated whitepoint via monitor OSD).
From what I can tell, both 1D LUT and 3D LUT (applying calibration via 1D LUT) look fine that way, but I'd like to find out why I need to deviate from the default setting for this result.

[huhn]

if you use 0 % black offset it will use bt1886 which changes the gamma depending on your black level depending on how high that is the resulting gamma can be sky high making the image look washed out.

[aufkrawall]

Thanks. I wonder if this also is the case why forced correction in Firefox for all elements increases gamma absurdly (unlike in Chrome).
What would happen with 99% black output offset in calibration? I suppose this might already be noticeably brighter than 100% (only got slow Spyder 4, so would take me relatively long to find out)? Seems kind of unsatisfactory.

Also got a weird issue my with current display, where applications on Windows (e.g. Edge) can't make use of the installed ICM profile. It worked with older displays (same DisplayCal profile format), but it also works on Linux Xorg. Color management is such a PITA, I wished there was a way to inject ReShade into DWM...

[huhn]

readings have nothing todo with this you can sue the same reading for as many different 3D LUT as you please...

calibration for general use of windows i just say give it up and calibrate the device directly.
for professional work you are just fine with ICM.

[aufkrawall]

Tested the ICM profile on a different Windows system: There applications can use it correctly. So something's apparently off with linking the profile to that specific monitor on Windows. What a stupid mess, unbelievable. That's why I like self generated 3D LUTs, just full control and zero shenanigans...

Most wide gamut monitors don't have an sRGB clamp (or a sh*tty one), so you're dependent on a proper ICM profile. Too bad Firefox doesn't treat gamma the way Chrome does...

[kolak]

Yep and this is why new Macs are step forward.
Screen is decent, you have choice of different refresh rates and predefined modes for video, still etc. work which do clamp gamut and lock brightness. You can also measure screen, add correction and screen will get even closer to desired values. It's not a proper calibration, but nice touch. Those screens are quite accurate out of the box.

Some measurements here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-explains-how-to-custom-calibrate-the-new-macbook-pro-displays.2320218/post-30551191

[huhn]

a step forward is the use of proprietary software wow.

[aufkrawall]

Well, also on Android you can just enforce sRGB gamut mapping globally for it seems every UI element without exception(?). Windows (but also Linux Xorg) is just excessively stupid in that regard. Hope it gets better with Wayland on Linux, the corresponding protocol has been in the making for ages...

[kolak]

a step forward is the use of proprietary software wow.

What software?
You don't have to use anything special at all- just a probe which understands new screens. Test patterns app is just "another"/easier(?) way.
Quoted post just shows that those screens are quite good and there is some "working" color management on OSX. At least your video/photo (once it's tagged properly) is converted to screen color profile on Mac and it actually works. If your screen is decent (+profiled) you get some meaningful preview, not a wild crap which happens on about any PC screen.

Those new features on latest MacBooks are move into very good direction.

How is eg. Netflix preview translated on PCs? If I have SDR screen with 50% Rec.709 gamut, or I have about P3 capable HDR screen? What do I see on PC laptop with Netflix?

On Mac it works very well. Once HDR screen is detected you get Dolby Vision and it's mapped to screen capabilities. If you force SDR profile for screen then you get only standard Rec.709 video. In case you have HDR source and play it in QTX when SDR mode is forced you get proper (toned mapped) SDR preview. It all sounds so simple but somehow it's far from been 'home standard'. Instead you get inn most cases totally wrong/unmanaged preview, which has not much to do with they way how it meant to look.

[aufkrawall]

How is eg. Netflix preview translated on PCs? If I have SDR screen with 50% Rec.709 gamut, or I have about P3 capable HDR screen? What do I see on PC laptop with Netflix?

I think you can't on Windows, afaik neither the Netflix/Disney+ etc. store apps make use of the installed ICC profile, or any browser when it comes to video or even Widevine decoding. So such content on a wide gamut display will have goofy LSD-like colors, at least with Rec709 content. The TV would have to do the color conversion, but then you probably can just use the integrated apps of a SmartTV instead of a HTPC anyway. Well, and with a regular monitor, you're screwed. It's really pathetic. :o
Though I gotta say I really also dislike brightness locks or other artificial limitations.

[huhn]

What software?
You don't have to use anything special at all- just a probe which understands new screens. Test patterns app is just "another"/easier(?) way.
Quoted post just shows that those screens are quite good and there is some "working" color management on OSX. At least your video/photo (once it's tagged properly) is converted to screen color profile on Mac and it actually works. If your screen is decent (+profiled) you get some meaningful preview, not a wild crap which happens on about any PC screen.

Those new features on latest MacBooks are move into very good direction.

How is eg. Netflix preview translated on PCs? If I have SDR screen with 50% Rec.709 gamut, or I have about P3 capable HDR screen? What do I see on PC laptop with Netflix?

On Mac it works very well. Once HDR screen is detected you get Dolby Vision and it's mapped to screen capabilities. If you force SDR profile for screen then you get only standard Rec.709 video. In case you have HDR source and play it in QTX when SDR mode is forced you get proper (toned mapped) SDR preview. It all sounds so simple but somehow it's far from been 'home standard'. Instead you get inn most cases totally wrong/unmanaged preview, which has not much to do with they way how it meant to look.

these new screens are controlled by the OSX and if the OS isn't mac os you have no access to it.

other open and official ways are present. monitors are usually simply doing it wrong out of the box or in general. TVs support control over HDMI signals for example which AMD and nvidia can send to change the screen behaviour software has to indicated that and win 11 terrible HDR features also takes "care" of this. loading profiles correctly on mac os for pretty much everything is something they do "correctly".

[kolak]

Those are laptop screens, so there is no easy way to use them as 2nd screen anyway.
If you want a control, you buy a monitor which can be calibrated (or LUT box), but this is really not a 'home' tech and cost solid $.

Mac at least offers some color management, where on Windows it's all mess. In the same time nothing stop MS to offer some color management which allows you to easily control your screen. There is something already there, but it never seems to work.

We are talking about bit different things- you not really talking about home tech, but more a pro (I worked at top VFX house and had access to Sony HDR OLED monitor and Dolby). Things don't have to be that expensive to be accurate enough and can be controlled by OS. It's just needs to be finally written and implemented properly (but it won't as there is no real money in it to be made). Specialised tech like SDI, etc. is past as all can be achieved way easier now. Video is nothing more than a data, so no need to treat it in special way to pass it from A to B. Metadata is hugely underestimated if not a Dolby (private company!) initiative and push we would be still watching Rec.709 at 100nits :)
Dolby worked on HDR for long time and they use to show it (behind the doors) to professionals on many shows, but reception was so poor. Industry is scared of new as it cost them money and necessarily brings money.

You can write own player and control HDMI metadata regardless of OS, no?

[huhn]

no i'm not talking about laptops... they literally have external device which can't be properly used outside of mac OS by design not by something that other OS can't do.

gaming monitors are missing these basic things but even cheap TV fully supported gamut control over HDMI signals. for many many years i should add.
You can write own player and control HDMI metadata regardless of OS, no?
yes?

[kolak]

I assume so, as there are pro players which allows you to monitor HDR over GPU's HDMI and let you take full control over it.

Can't madVR talk to GPU directly and pass HDR metadata (regardless of Win settings)?

[huhn]

yes nvidia and AMD have API to use HDMI meta data.
that's the problem these monitors don't care because they are not able to handle this correctly they use wide gamut always even if bt 709 is send or at best have a very bad clamp.
if they support fake HDR they usually can gamut map this which is just hilarious...

bt2020 to 95% DCI P3 D65 yes .
bt709 to bt709 nope.

[kolak]

Unless you use good monitor like Eizo, but even then you in most cases ned to switch mode manually.

With Eizo there is a way to control it by connecting USB cable and having special commands sends through it. There is a NLE which can control Eizo monitors this way depending on project settings you choose. Same could be done for the player.

I don't get why monitor can't switch itself to correct mode based on info which travels on HDMI. All needed info is there.

[aufkrawall]

While it would be great if more displays could handle flagged signals accordingly, one big issue remains: Lots of them would screw up anyway, e.g. by locking color or even brightness settings, introducing banding or scoring just low sRGB scores. I wouldn't want to sacrifice native display 6500k white point, doing it via calibration lowers contrast ratio (at least if its not OLED).

Ideally we would be able to feed Windows or the GPU driver a 3D LUT (or it would generate a proper one from the ICC profile itself) and it would do high quality conversion all the time before scan out. In case there is content with other non wide gamuts like rec601, applications could just convert them to rec709 (lots of seemingly rec601 content is downscaled rec709 content without proper flags/conversion anyway).
HDR would still toggle native wide gamut mode.

[huhn]

there is absolutely no issue with doing such things with TV including entry class ones.
ICC aren't good enough to gamut map properly and while a 3D LUT would do the trick a proper one cost noteable performance.

white point has nothing todo with this why the white point or brightness or what ever is locked in sRGB or BT 709 modes is absolutely beyond me.

do not forget nearly all programs don't tell the OS what color gamut is used. this will change now but old programs will not get updated so BT 709 has to be guessed.

[aufkrawall]

there is absolutely no issue with doing such things with TV including entry class ones.

I temporarily had a monitor with sRGB clamp and it both locked colors (annoyingly cold white point) and introduced banding.
Monitors aren't TVs. Those cheap TVs you mentioned often have absurd input lag.


ICC aren't good enough to gamut map properly

Nope, mpv can pick up ICC profile and when specifying gamma 2.4, it looks exactly like DisplayCal's 3D LUT with 100% black output offset. There might me mathematical differences, but they don't really matter. There is 0 banding and it works on my crappy Gemini Lake GPU.


and while a 3D LUT would do the trick a proper one cost noteable performance.

What is "notable"? It's rather cheap in ReShade.


white point has nothing todo with this why the white point or brightness or what ever is locked in sRGB or BT 709 modes is absolutely beyond me.

It probably is related because scalers (or how else you would call the component that does color adjustments) in monitors are so limited.

[huhn]

I temporarily had a monitor with sRGB clamp and it both locked colors (annoyingly cold white point) and introduced banding.
Monitors aren't TVs. Those cheap TVs you mentioned often have absurd input lag.
or better input lag. they are not gaming displays but the gamut mapping is not the reason they are lower.
LG OLED screens are one of the fastest screen on the market if not the fastest well aware they are not cheap.

gaming displays are just bad because they get away with it.
Nope, mpv can pick up ICC profile and when specifying gamma 2.4, it looks exactly like DisplayCal's 3D LUT with 100% black output offset. There might me mathematical differences, but they don't really matter. There is 0 banding and it works on my crappy Gemini Lake GPU.
a proper program can use them properly but that needs work and mpv put that work in to get results you can not except other program developer to do the same. if you just let windows do it ouch...

What is "notable"? It's rather cheap in ReShade.
last time i checked reshade 3D LUTs are very very low end and produce banding. that was when it was very new and dispalcal just added support these 3D LUT are really tiny.
3d LUT in madVR can kill entire entry class GPU just from tonemapping even my gtx 960 didn't have enough processing power to do that reliable. and even if it is doable easily on new GPU you still lose like 5 % performance that's quite a lot.

i can't believe that reshade get's away without losing some FPS in games just calling a shader cost at least 0.2 ms in my experience even if the shader does nothing.
It probably is related because scalers (or how else you would call the component that does color adjustments) in monitors are so limited.

they have to really cheap out but that's just how it is...
hardware unboxed test this and yes clamps are usually very very badly implemented and need ICC profiles to be of any use so they are sadly pretty useless. there are some that are not terrible but i'm not following screens right now. if i need to buy one write now i would look for one that can't do DCI p3 D65 sounds dumb but i like accurate colors.

[aufkrawall]

LG OLED screens are one of the fastest screen on the market if not the fastest well aware they are not cheap.

Yeah, they make PC monitors look bad in a lot, if not all regards.


if you just let windows do it ouch...

Yes, Windows color management is indeed extra bad. It even is too stupid to apply 1D LUT without a shipton of banding. That amount of incompetence really is remarkable. Hopefully Linux Wayland desktop will crush this garbage around 2025, but app support will of course still be an issue, at least partially...



last time i checked reshade 3D LUTs are very very low end and produce banding. that was when it was very new and dispalcal just added support these 3D LUT are really tiny.

I suspect the banding isn't necessarily caused by the size of the 3D LUT, but by either missing precision for ReShade effects in general or missing dithering (or both).
ReShade can force D3D applications into 10 bit frame buffer and this decreases introduced banding by the 3D LUT to a really acceptable amount for gaming (and Windows dithers down to 8 bit for 8 bit displays).
Interestingly the old Mirror's Edge game from 2009 has very clear skybox gradients with just very little banding, I found this to be a good testcase.



3d LUT in madVR can kill entire entry class GPU just from tonemapping even my gtx 960 didn't have enough processing power to do that reliable. and even if it is doable easily on new GPU you still lose like 5 % performance that's quite a lot.

Yes, but truth is the development of madVR had stopped before madshi implemented more performance optimizations. E.g. also the Jinc scaler is very slow compared to mpv's.


if i need to buy one write now i would look for one that can't do DCI p3 D65 sounds dumb but i like accurate colors.
I would do the same, though it seems basically every relatively recent LCD panel is DCI-P3 these days. I tested ~a dozen of >= 144Hz 1440p devices (mostly IPS, but also some VA) and they all were wide gamut without exception.
I think the first 1440p 144Hz IPS panels by AU Optronics still were closer to sRGB, but they were of terrible quality otherwise.

[kolak]

While it would be great if more displays could handle flagged signals accordingly, one big issue remains: Lots of them would screw up anyway, e.g. by locking color or even brightness settings, introducing banding or scoring just low sRGB scores. I wouldn't want to sacrifice native display 6500k white point, doing it via calibration lowers contrast ratio (at least if its not OLED).

Ideally we would be able to feed Windows or the GPU driver a 3D LUT (or it would generate a proper one from the ICC profile itself) and it would do high quality conversion all the time before scan out. In case there is content with other non wide gamuts like rec601, applications could just convert them to rec709 (lots of seemingly rec601 content is downscaled rec709 content without proper flags/conversion anyway).
HDR would still toggle native wide gamut mode.

This is similar how OSX is doing it. Any properly tagged video gets converted to screen profile. If profile describes screen accurately then you have correct preview regardless of the screen. It's all down to screen capabilities then.

I just done HDR grading on new MacBook for my holiday video in Resolve (using fact that on Mac Resolve GUI offers accurate preview including HDR). Looks great as HDR. I took this video and played it on older Mac with SDR screen. QTX does tonne mapping (uses HDR metadata, so file needs to be properly flagged) and converts preview to screen profile, so SDR representation of my HDR grade is correct. It's not as good as my old native SDR grade, but absolutely fine. Best bit- if you take this video to other Mac with different screen you get "same" SDR preview. As long as profiles are close to real screen parameters you get about same preview on different machines (assuming they are all about 100% Rec.709 gamut), which is exactly how it should work.
Try doing this on Windows :)

Of course ideal solution is for any screen to have today 100% P3 gamut and 1000nits HDR support+ modes for HD and SD standards. If video is in one of the official standards then screen switches to given profile and if not you get good conversion to P3 'main' profile. This is how pro world works, expect they don't really relay on any auto switching (and conversion) but it's all set by human on both sides to the same profile- video feeding app and screen itself. Sometimes they forget to switch mode in the monitor and waste eg. time on grading which is useless. It happens :)
As long as we keep getting screens which are so far from any standard (and their profiles) none of it will work well.

[aufkrawall]

Thanks for those Mac insights!

According to this Reddit Thread, Eizo recommends to stay away from Windows 11 due to brokenness with ICC profiles:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/qg8dcg/for_those_of_you_going_crazy_over_icc_profiles/
Likely explains why installing the ICC profile doesn't work for me...

But that linked tool dwm_lut is interesting, it indeed works. It has some limitations and causes a lot of GPU load, but I can watch 1080p video via streaming apps with proper sRGB gamut mapping. :cool:

[huhn]

it's sadly not really possible to speed it up by a lot.
3d LUT are very straight forward what they do and how to apply them.

just to make that clear i didn't say it's impossible.

[kolak]

I assume inside monitors they must have good chips to manage LUTs. Eizo HDR monitors use 24bit LUTs, so those must be quite demanding.

[nevcairiel]

LUTs are not particularly expensive to apply, you just need enough memory to store them, otherwise its basically just one lookup per pixel, something GPUs are good at, and dedicated image processors are even better at. If that DWM LUT tool is particularly slow, its probably due to the fact that its an external hook that adds an additional rendering pass and copies all textures around once. And most importantly, it disables DirectFlip, which every typical fullscreen rendering probably otherwise uses to bypass DWM entirely.

[huhn]

madVR dies to it too you can easily trigger that with an intel i GPU or i even trigger it with a 960.

the first issue is a 3D LUT is to "small" for a better word so it can not simply look up a color it has to calculate it (madVR uses trilinear) this needs processing power it's simple but it's not zero.
next issue is for a lack of better words again they are to "big"
which trigger heavy slow downs with "rare colors" was the word used by madshi if i remember correctly.
there is also the issue with how big a single texture can be which can be quite different depend on the GPU. GPU caps viewer shows this information under vulkan.

a 1060 has this for vulkan
maxImageDimension1D: 32768
maxImageDimension2D: 32768
maxImageDimension3D: 16384
maxImageDimensionCube: 32768

the DWM 3D LUT should have a little easier job by been inputting with 10 or 8 bit data not 16 bit float but on the other hand new GPU really like FP16 and clearly not int10.

[nevcairiel]

there is also the issue with how big a single texture can be which can be quite different depend on the GPU. GPU caps viewer shows this information under vulkan.

a 1060 has this for vulkan
maxImageDimension1D: 32768
maxImageDimension2D: 32768
maxImageDimension3D: 16384
maxImageDimensionCube: 32768

You do realize how big a 16384x16384x16384 3D LUT texture would be, right? :D
You'll explode your video memory long before these dimensions are a limit, because you need a x^3 texture in all dimensions, so even 1024^3 would already be a gigabyte of space in 8-bit.

So most practial 3DLUTs are likely at most 512^3 or smaller, which is where interpolation comes in to fill in the gaps.

[huhn]

madVR 3D LUT are 256^3(which are the biggest i'm aware of 65/64 is already considered huge and monitors easy go down to 16.) which is 100 mb so irrelevant but that'S not the issue it's the temporary calculated numbers usually in the green.

beware my 1060 size is insane compared to the 960 and i have no clue what Dx9 has available.

there are rendertimes of 200ms just from the 3D LUT and madshi sad something about the use of smaller 3D LUT the memory is clearly not the issue here.

feel free to find out what the real issue is. i tried to find the bug report about it but it was not my report. there will be report of this from me here ont eh forum but they are at best old.

edit: the input is a float point number you always have to fill in gaps with madVR.

[e-t172]

there are rendertimes of 200ms just from the 3D LUT and madshi sad something about the use of smaller 3D LUT the memory is clearly not the issue here.
feel free to find out what the real issue is. i tried to find the bug report about it but it was not my report. there will be report of this from me here ont eh forum but they are at best old.

I did report an issue (http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=462) back in the day where using a 3DLUT with a weak Intel GPU would make render times shoot up but only on certain scenes. You even commented on it. The main hypothesis was that the GPU would evict parts of the 3DLUT from some cache due to rarely used colors, and would struggle to get them back when these colors happened to be used.

[aufkrawall]

GPU usage doesn't really increase on a RTX 3060 when using 3D LUT in madVR.
Edit: Additional VRAM consumption is ~220MB.

[nevcairiel]

Its quite possible that D3D9 in madVR is a factor. D3D9 is quite limited as it comes to resource management, and the driver/API certainly plays a role there. There aren't enough caches to cache the entire 3DLUT in any case, or a full video texture for that matter, so it has to do a reasonable job at accessing it from video memory directly, or nothing would work.
Like I hinted at above, texture sampling should be a bread and butter operation for any GPU, even if 3D textures are a bit rarer.

[huhn]

the vulkan numbers are very convincing if that's even the reason this happens.

this alone is a good reason to move on from dx9 the 19 years of age are also a good reason.

[aufkrawall]

I guess the 3D LUT format for madVR can be described as "maxed out". When you generate in IRIDAS format, it is already just a fraction in size.
But probably even ~600KB ReShade format would look fine when properly applied in fp16 precision + dithering.

[Balling]

Well, also on Android you can just enforce sRGB gamut mapping globally for it seems every UI element without exception(?). Windows (but also Linux Xorg) is just excessively stupid in that regard. Hope it gets better with Wayland on Linux, the corresponding protocol has been in the making for ages...

You cannot. That debug setting does not work in many cases.

[Balling]

I think you can't on Windows, afaik neither the Netflix/Disney+ etc. store apps make use of the installed ICC profile, or any browser when it comes to video or even Widevine decoding. So such content on a wide gamut display will have goofy LSD-like colors, at least with Rec709 content. The TV would have to do the color conversion, but then you probably can just use the integrated apps of a SmartTV instead of a HTPC anyway. Well, and with a regular monitor, you're screwed. It's really pathetic. :o
Though I gotta say I really also dislike brightness locks or other artificial limitations.

ICC profile is not to be used when you output to hdr screen using hdr swapchain.

[speedy]

Has anyone figured out what type of performance hit there is from running dwm_lut? Disabling/closing and then re-opening it doesn't seem to yield a noticeable difference in the benchmarks I've ran.

[aufkrawall]

We talked about colorimeters a few months ago in the madVR thread. In the meantime, I temporarily got hands on an X-Rite i1 Pro and Spyder X in addition to my old Spyder 4. Observations:
-the X-Rite is basically unusable with generic spectral correction profiles, white is off and relatively low gamut coverage scores with all displays tested with all generic correction profiles
-with a spectral correction profile specifically targeted for a given device, much better results can be achieved. But they apparently need to fit extra well too, else white can still be a bit off
-so I think you need to be extra lucky with correction profiles with the i1 Pro for your given display, else you can buy a spectrometer too
-the SpyderX is much more forgivable with its generic LCD white LED correction (as is the Spyder 4, if not even more)
-you need to update ArgyllCMS to a newer version than shipped by DisplayCal to make the SpyderX work correctly on Windows (including unsigned driver)
-it works out of the box on Linux distributions that ship recent Argyll, such as Arch-based ones (Manjaro live boot environment does the trick)
-both the X-Rite and the SpyderX fail when it comes to correctly measuring gamma of the two VA displays tested, it is measured ~0.2 too bright
-the old Spyder 4 can measure it correctly (i.e. 2.2 for both displays' default setting)
-the old Spyder 4 seems to be less tolerant toward the green part of white, but target of 6500k determined by it looks well to me with all displays tested. Though in reality, it might be a bit colder than that number.
-despite of the Spyder 4 failing miserably in detecting both white and black brightness, this really seems to be of little to no consequence for the actual calibration result in comparison to the newer colorimeters with typical gamma 2.2/2.4 curves
-for whatever reason, the old Spyder 4 scores by far the highest DCI-P3 scores when comparing with generic spectral correction profiles

Note that this is seen through consumer goggles, I don't care for lowest deviations that meet cleanroom criteria.

[huhn]

you just compared two meter with each other. there is nothing you can compare it to without a spectrometer.

this is just random number you have here without a reverence you have nothing to compare it too.

these meter have been more than once been compared to spectrometer.

[aufkrawall]

You missed the point. Only few enthusiasts buy a spectrometer with their colorimeter. That's why there are generic correction profiles and the online database for specific correction profiles with a particular colorimeter and display. When whitepoint is off in an obvious way, that's a sure sign that the spectral correction profile isn't close to optimal at all. My post was about how usable the different colorimeters proved to be without (!) spectrometer. No need for comments like "But spectrometer!!" or "random numbers" (typical huhn hyperbole). Of course you can always fund me a spectrometer...

[huhn]

but you don't have a clue how white looks like without a Spectro meter.

-both the X-Rite and the SpyderX fail when it comes to correctly measuring gamma of the two VA displays tested, it is measured ~0.2 too bright
-the old Spyder 4 can measure it correctly (i.e. 2.2 for both displays' default setting)

why even calibrate if the display is already better then your meter wow...

and you wouldn't believe how little it matters if the white point is off because your eye is made to correct it the important part part is that the error is steady and doesn't change over the gamma curve.

d65 is kinda red. you just go and say the white point of a spyder on my display with the correction(without even stating them) i have here looks more white to me tested on two VA panels.
if you think the white point is better ( by eye) just read the calibrated white point with a i1 d3 and use the read white point you should end up with a very similar one.

BTW. the i1 pro(i1pro 2/3) is a spectrometer the usually colorimeter is the i1d3(tons of names i1 display or pro colormunki for example).

if you want to know why the i1d3 is considered to be a much better meter do some close to black reading on i don't know a cheap oled mobile phone or something.