Display Calibration

[Asmodian]

@e-t172
My calibration recommendation was for the most common situation, like seiyafan's. Displays that are close to D65 with approximately sRGB gamuts displaying BT.709, SMPTE-C, or EBU-PAL content. When displaying very different gamuts or if the display has a very different white point I agree with you, other options are much preferred, there is a reason those options exist too. ;)

That said there is almost no content in BT.2020 right now and you would use a completely different 3DLUT for HDR content anyway (not using the perceptual intent).

D50 is very yellow, yes, but D50 is also VERY far from D65; I have not seen an LCD with a white point even close to D50 in the last five years. All modern displays seem to at least try to have a white point near D65 (most are within that 5800-7000K). If it isn't outside that I suggest not correcting it, e.g. dropping contrast from 1000:1 to 750:1 is definitely not worth it. A perfect D65 looks very similar to 6700K, calibrating a 6700K white point to 6500K often looks worse due to what has to be sacrificed. Use the RGB controls on the display to get as close to 6500K as you can and then calibrate targeting the native white.

[Stereodude]

Guess what? I bought a second Dell U2415 and calibrated using the same settings as the first and the contrast went up from 760:1 to 960:1. Problem fixed!
Last time I bought a monitor was in 2013 and I had to go through three before finding a decent one.
Or you could just use calibration software that allows the black point to be left alone.

[Knight77]

As suggested by Asmodian (thank you) I'll post here the question that I posted in the madVR thread

I've got a 4K TV and madVR set in relation to it.

Recently I changed video card (upgraded to a GTX1070) and used again dispcal to calibrate the TV, I set it to 2.4 gamma with 6500K white point... question is...should I recalibrate it to BT2020?

Now madVR is set "calibrated BT709 with gamma 2.4", if I change it to BT2020 I see that the video is like losing colours, with DCI-P3 I see it like a middle way, while BT709 is the one more colorful (even if with some video sometimes faces look a bit too red but not with all of them so I guess is also related to the way has been shooted).

Can anyone give me some opionion about this? Please :-)

thanks !

[huhn]

are you watch content other than BT 601 or BT 701?

what type of calibration did you make with argyllCMS?

Now madVR is set "calibrated BT709 with gamma 2.4", if I change it to BT2020 I see that the video is like losing colours, with DCI-P3 I see it like a middle way, while BT709 is the one more colorful (even if with some video sometimes faces look a bit too red but not with all of them so I guess is also related to the way has been shooted).

just sit back and thing about this for a second and understand what you are doing here...

[Asmodian]

I would not calibrate to BT.2020, no display available at any price can display BT.2020; it is not meant as a display format (for now).

What gamut is your TV? It sounds like it is a wide gamut based on your comment about skin tones sometimes appearing too red. This is a common issue when watching BT.709 content on a wide gamut display. Which TV exactly?

Current wide gamut displays should be calibrated to DCI-P3, which is what movie theaters use. However this is only true if they can display most or all of DCI-P3. Ideally make a 3DLUT for madVR.

I also suggest not targeting a white point with dispcal (target native), the way calibrating a white point works is by decreasing the max brightness of the colors that are out of balance, reducing contrast. Also colorimeters are often off enough, due to a wide range of new backlights, that the white point isn't really more accurate anyway, there is no point in reducing contrast to add a slightly pink hue.

[Knight77]

I would not calibrate to BT.2020, no display available at any price can display BT.2020; it is not meant as a display format (for now).

What gamut is your TV? It sounds like it is a wide gamut based on your comment about skin tones sometimes appearing too red. This is a common issue when watching BT.709 content on a wide gamut display. Which TV exactly?

Current wide gamut displays should be calibrated to DCI-P3, which is what movie theaters use. However this is only true if they can display most or all of DCI-P3. Ideally make a 3DLUT for madVR.

I also suggest not targeting a white point with dispcal (target native), the way calibrating a white point works is by decreasing the max brightness of the colors that are out of balance, reducing contrast. Also colorimeters are often off enough, due to a wide range of new backlights, that the white point isn't really more accurate anyway, there is no point in reducing contrast to add a slightly pink hue.

Thanks for the reply !

My TV is this one: 65XD93
Sony Website: https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/televisions/xd9405-xd9305-series/specifications

AVForums review: https://www.avforums.com/review/sony-kd-65xd9305-ultra-hd-4k-hdr-tv-review.12267

I guess these lines are relevant in relation to your post

We tested the 65XD93 and it does indeed meet the criteria for Ultra HD Premium certification, with a 10-bit panel, a colour gamut that is over 90% of DCI-P3 and 0.05 to 1,000nits of dynamic range. In fact we measured the colour gamut at just over 91% of DCI-P3, we also measured the native black level at 0.013nits and the maximum brightness on a 10% window at over 1,000 nits.

Although we are still a long way off TVs being able to cover the full Rec.2020 colour gamut, it is used as a container for sources such as Ultra HD Blu-ray. So it's important that an Ultra HD TV can track to the saturation points for Rec.2020 up to the limitations of the panel's native colour gamut. The 65XD93 managed to cover nearly 67% of Rec.2020 and was tracking the saturation points quite closely within the limitations of the panel's native colour gamut. So overall the XD9305 could deliver an excellent HDR performance in terms of our tests and this was borne out by out actual viewing experiences with HDR content.


If you need more info about this I can check the review and paste here more info.

These are the parameters I used in DispcalGUI, note that I didn't create a 3DLut file, if I do it I would change Input Encoding to 0-255. This time I didn't create the 3DLut file because I didn't have enough time, last time the whole process took more than 4 hours.

http://i.imgur.com/xMUqyuy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/naYRdev.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6ogHBva.jpg

Hope all this can help and again...thanks for the help !

[huhn]

calibration:
do not set a brightness setting leave it at "as measured"
just leave calibration page at default these setting are chosen for a reason.

if you want 120 CM² you should fix that before calibration same for white point.

profiling:
same for profiling you have selected 57 patches that is nothing.
the default settings are ok try them.

3D LUT:
you need a BT 709 3D LUT for madVR so you have to create one.
you can create a second 3D LUT for DCI P3 and even a BT 2020 too if you like too.

do not change the input encoding. leave it at 16-235.

tone curve.
there is a lot to say here and it depends a lot on your room brightness conditions and screen.

well you have to find that out by your self.
just create multiply BT 709 3D LUT and try them out.
i would start with normal BT 2020 and normal gamma 2.4.

[Asmodian]

As usual huhn has great advice, I agree completely. I do want to add bold to the same for white point but setting a brightness with a software calibration is even worse, it simply reduces contrast for nothing.

[Knight77]

Thanks for the feedback. I set everything to default.

I usually watch TV in a dark room, the only light is a slim LED light strip behind the TV which is 6500K. So I guess the the best time curve is gamma 2.4.

Just one thing is not 100% clear:

well you have to find that out by your self.
just create multiply BT 709 3D LUT and try them out.
i would start with normal BT 2020 and normal gamma 2.4.

So in calibration should I use 2.4 in tone curve or BT 709 or BT 2020? I know that I can create more 3D Lut but should I change the setting also in calibration or just in the 3DLut setting? I mean I understand setting gamma 2.4 in calibration and BT709 in the 3DLut page but if I need to create a BT2020 3DLut should I also change it in the calibration page?

Hope I could explain my doubt.

Thanks again for your support high and Asmodian.

[Asmodian]

Use BT.2020 tone curve with power at the standard 2.4 (might be BT.2020 without a custom power set at all).

Just change it in the 3DLUT page.

[huhn]

So in calibration should I use 2.4 in tone curve or BT 709 or BT 2020? I know that I can create more 3D Lut but should I change the setting also in calibration or just in the 3DLut setting? I mean I understand setting gamma 2.4 in calibration and BT709 in the 3DLut page but if I need to create a BT2020 3DLut should I also change it in the calibration page?

select setting -> Video 3D LUT for madVR... and leave the calibration settings as they are and that is as maesured.

make sure you have disabled all picture processing stuff in your TV and that means you have to disable backlight dimming and stuff like that too!

if you want to use bigger colorspaces make sure your TV uses this native color space. that may be called BT 2020 DCI p3 or something like "native".

use a profiling setting you can leave with. i personal use ~13000 patches there is no need for so many but you have to run this only one time. the default settings of ~1500 patches should be fine.

this will create readings you can use for as many 3D LUT as you want. creating a 3D LUt from these readings takes about 5 mins. you can use the tool 3DLUT maker to create more 3D LUTs it is part of displaycal so you have this tool already.

you newer touch the settings under "calibration" there is no need for that.

[Knight77]

select setting -> Video 3D LUT for madVR... and leave the calibration settings as they are and that is as maesured.

make sure you have disabled all picture processing stuff in your TV and that means you have to disable backlight dimming and stuff like that too!

if you want to use bigger colorspaces make sure your TV uses this native color space. that may be called BT 2020 DCI p3 or something like "native".

use a profiling setting you can leave with. i personal use ~13000 patches there is no need for so many but you have to run this only one time. the default settings of ~1500 patches should be fine.

this will create readings you can use for as many 3D LUT as you want. creating a 3D LUt from these readings takes about 5 mins. you can use the tool 3DLUT maker to create more 3D LUTs it is part of displaycal so you have this tool already.

you newer touch the settings under "calibration" there is no need for that.


Thank you huhn and Asmodian for the indications. I followed everything and created my 3DLut with the Madvr settings. After that, from the same 3DLut creation page I created other two: BT2020 with Gamma 2.4 (absolute) and another one DCI-P3 with Gamma 2.4 (absolute). In the end I loaded the three profiles in the 3DLut page of madVR.

About my TV and the color space, I cannot choose a "Native". I could choose between Auto, BT709, BT2020 and DCI, I left it on "Auto" for the calibration and deactivated the backlight (the other pic processing were already off).

The only two remaining doubts are:

1) My TV allow me to calibrate 10 point gamma, but I don't know how to implement/perform this with Displaycal

2) When the calibration has finished it showed a little report saying that the calibration (my TV) covered like 96% of the sRGB and about 66% of the DCI space. But in every review they say that after calibration the TV covers about 96% of DCI space.... what's wrong? IF there is anything wrong.

Thank you again, your advices are precious.

[huhn]

you should have selected BT 2020 or DCI P3 before calibration.

[Asmodian]

1) My TV allow me to calibrate 10 point gamma, but I don't know how to implement/perform this with Displaycal

2) When the calibration has finished it showed a little report saying that the calibration (my TV) covered like 96% of the sRGB and about 66% of the DCI space. But in every review they say that after calibration the TV covers about 96% of DCI space.... what's wrong? IF there is anything wrong.

Thank you again, your advices are precious.

1) I don't either, on your TV, but you will need to recalibrate again if you do it. Letting madVR handle gamma calibration is fine, unless you use other inputs sometimes.

2) "Auto" must have put your TV into BT709 (sRGB), try DCI if you want a wide gamut, but again you will need to completely redo the calibration for madVR.

[Knight77]

you should have selected BT 2020 or DCI P3 before calibration.

1) I don't either, on your TV, but you will need to recalibrate again if you do it. Letting madVR handle gamma calibration is fine, unless you use other inputs sometimes.

2) "Auto" must have put your TV into BT709 (sRGB), try DCI if you want a wide gamut, but again you will need to completely redo the calibration for madVR.

Aaaaaand I'll do it again with DCI selected :(

:D

[Knight77]

you should have selected BT 2020 or DCI P3 before calibration.

2) "Auto" must have put your TV into BT709 (sRGB), try DCI if you want a wide gamut, but again you will need to completely redo the calibration for madVR.

Thank again for all the patience and support.

Ok, calibration remade with DCI-P3 selected on TV and the madVR profile config in Displaycal, meaning BT709 and 1186. Now in the end it shows that has been covered about 88% of the DCI-P3 colorspace (and like 124% sRGB), much closer to the professinal review you can find online.

But what now with madVR? I mean if I upload the three 3DLuts (BT709, DCI-P3 and BT2020) and leave my TV color space on "Auto" I understand it choose the BT709 also because the video info (ctrl+J) of madVR shows BT709....BUT if in the TV settings I choose DCI-P3 I have richer colors.
Don't know what it is right (close to the reality) to choose...leave it on "Auto" and get the BT709 colorspace or choose the DCI-P3 and like take advantage of the wider gamma?

Obviously, using an HTPC, when I'm not using madVR/MPHC this choice also influence the normal screens in Windows and other programs.

Thanks again !

[huhn]

you have created 3D LUT for the DCI P3 setting in your TV so you have to leave it at DCI P3 for correct colors in madVR.

the colors oudside of madVR are wrong anyway.

[Knight77]

you have created 3D LUT for the DCI P3 setting in your TV so you have to leave it at DCI P3 for correct colors in madVR.

the colors oudside of madVR are wrong anyway.

Well I also created a 3DLut for BT709, actually is the first one created by DisplayCal and the video I play are identified as BT709 by madVR... Indeed I have loaded both of them in madVR and when it plays it use the 3DLut BT709 the difference I can see it only if the in the TV color space settings I choose DCI instead of BT709, when I do it colors are "stronger", more satured. The effect is cooler for sure but after some test I feel they might not be totally "realistic" with some images.

Point is...Which one is the correct one?

I found a bit weird using DCI color space in TV settings then calibrate with madVR default settings with BT709 , but I get that is done to take advantage of the wide gamut of the TV. Mainly my doubt is now related to what is correct to use while watching movies using BT709.

[Asmodian]

Point is...Which one is the correct one?

I found a bit weird using DCI color space in TV settings then calibrate with madVR default settings with BT709 , but I get that is done to take advantage of the wide gamut of the TV. Mainly my doubt is now related to what is correct to use while watching movies using BT709.

The correct way is to leave your TV in DCI mode, not auto or anything else.

There are two sides to a 3DLUT, the input and the output. The different 3DLUTs you are making have different inputs but they all output to the same display with the same calibration.

With your TV in DCI mode:
The BT.709 3DLUT takes the color values from a BT.709 bluray and changes them slightly so you get as close as possible to the correct color, brightness, and saturation on your display.
The DCI-P3 3DLUT takes the color values from a DCI-P3 HDR video and changes them less (your TV is closer to DCI-P3 in DCI mode) so you get as close as possible to the correct color, brightness, and saturation on your display.

This is why you have to calibrate your display first and then read a lot of different color patches. You are building a model of exactly what color your display will create when given particular color values. You cannot change any setting on your TV after you do it and still get correct results.

If you calibrate with the TV in DCI-P3 but then watch something with it in BT.709 everything will be undersaturated.

Edit: An interesting option is to not calibrate your display at all but simply profile it. This way Windows and everything else doesn't have a calibration, but with the 3DLUT madVR does. The 3DLUT does the job of both calibration and gamut correction/conversion. In my testing I did get better quality in madVR when using a calibration too, but both ways worked well.

[Knight77]

The correct way is to leave your TV in DCI mode, not auto or anything else.

There are two sides to a 3DLUT, the input and the output. The different 3DLUTs you are making have different inputs but they all output to the same display with the same calibration.

With your TV in DCI mode:
The BT.709 3DLUT takes the color values from a BT.709 bluray and changes them slightly so you get as close as possible to the correct color, brightness, and saturation on your display.
The DCI-P3 3DLUT takes the color values from a DCI-P3 HDR video and changes them less (your TV is closer to DCI-P3 in DCI mode) so you get as close as possible to the correct color, brightness, and saturation on your display.

This is why you have to calibrate your display first and then read a lot of different color patches. You are building a model of exactly what color your display will create when given particular color values. You cannot change any setting on your TV after you do it and still get correct results.

If you calibrate with the TV in DCI-P3 but then watch something with it in BT.709 everything will be undersaturated.

Edit: An interesting option is to not calibrate your display at all but simply profile it. This way Windows and everything else doesn't have a calibration, but with the 3DLUT madVR does. The 3DLUT does the job of both calibration and gamut correction/conversion. In my testing I did get better quality in madVR when using a calibration too, but both ways worked well.

Asmodian thanks for the explanation. So to make it clear (maybe useful also for other people) the correct process is:

- Set the TV to DCI-P3
- Make a calibration with DisplayCal with madVR settings, meaning it will create a BT709+1886 3DLut
- After this, with the same calibration data, create a 3DLut for DCI-P3
- Load both the 3DLuts in madVR and let the TV in DCI-P3 color space
- It's not necessary to load the profile in Windows (right?)

With the current content (BT709) ,the DCI-P3 3DLut in madVR is ignored, but anyway it it correct to use DCI-P3 color space TV setting. Right?

With your TV in DCI mode:
The BT.709 3DLUT takes the color values from a BT.709 bluray and changes them slightly so you get as close as possible to the correct color, brightness, and saturation on your display.
The DCI-P3 3DLUT takes the color values from a DCI-P3 HDR video and changes them less (your TV is closer to DCI-P3 in DCI mode) so you get as close as possible to the correct color, brightness, and saturation on your display.

You're talking about the two 3DLuts in madVR right? With DCI calibration, when watching a BT709 video and TV in DCI the effect is really good and cool but in some scenes look like a bit pushed, just that.

Thanks again for all the info, I'm quite sure that you're getting bored by me but this will also help other users here :-)

[huhn]

You're talking about the two 3DLuts in madVR right? With DCI calibration, when watching a BT709 video and TV in DCI the effect is really good and cool but in some scenes look like a bit pushed, just that.

the BT 709 3d lut is made to map the colors of your TV in this case your DCI P3 TV colorspace to BT 709.

if the colors are still off that means the calibration failed.
if the calibration isn't wrong than the result is the creators intend.

[Arm3nian]

No response on the madVR thread so ill post this here:

Is it recommended to use "process HDR content" without an HDR display?

When I specify a 3DLUT, for any of the 2 options on the hdr page, it says wrong input/format for madvr.

Do I make a bt.709 lut or a bt.2020 lut for bt.2020 content on a normal gamut display (100% srgb)?

Thanks

[huhn]

you need a smpte 2084 3D LUT

[bFooz]

For those who would like to use flux but it does not work with a calibration method/software you use, this is a similar program and even better in some cases: http://www.skytopia.com/software/sunsetscreen/

[Oguignant]

Hello, anyone with experience with calman 5 to create the 3dlut? When I create u 3dlut of 5,000 or 10,000 points, the 100% cyan color is left with a deltae of 17. The other colors are fine. I only have problems with 100% cyan. What I can be doing wrong? Even in the pre-calibration the 100% cyan color deltae is only 2.9...

look the pre-calibration
http://i.imgur.com/RH8ZNVdh.png

[Oguignant]

Calman 5 Enthousiast vs DisplayCal? Which is better to create 3d lut? Does anyone know or have experience?

[Asmodian]

I use argyllcms via command line but only because I do not own Calman.

I suggest trying a calibration with DisplayCal, you can test the various intents to get an idea of how perceptual compares to absolute.

Calman may be deciding that sacrificing cyan accuracy is worth it for some other aspect of the image but it is hard to know because I don't have any experience with Calman.

[Oguignant]

I use argyllcms via command line but only because I do not own Calman.

I suggest trying a calibration with DisplayCal, you can test the various intents to get an idea of how perceptual compares to absolute.

Calman may be deciding that sacrificing cyan accuracy is worth it for some other aspect of the image but it is hard to know because I don't have any experience with Calman.

I found other options to create the 3d lut. Fast 700p, standard 1400p, detailed 17000p or custom. They are better than using the other options and I have no problem with 100% cyan color.

[Asmodian]

Those are the patch counts, I am curious if there are any options for intent.

I would use standard, especially if all your colors are good when using it. Over 1400 patches has diminishing returns and can even cause issues with some displays.

[Oguignant]

Those are the patch counts, I am curious if there are any options for intent.

I would use standard, especially if all your colors are good when using it. Over 1400 patches has diminishing returns and can even cause issues with some displays.

I use the detailed option of 17,000 points. It takes about 5 hours to create the 3d lut with an avg of 0.3. DisplayCal is better than Calman? There is very little documentation about calman.

[Asmodian]

That is probably too many patches, you are likely to get better results using the standard 1400.
Edit: If you have a good 3DLUT now there is no need to create a new one.

DisplayCal is open source (free) but donations are appreciated. Calman is quite expensive so one would hope it was better but Argyllcms (what DisplayCal uses to do the calibration) has improved a lot in the last couple of years, it is very good now. Not that is was bad before but it used to have minor banding sometimes because it prioritized accuracy over everything, now it is willing to reduce accuracy a tiny bit to avoid any banding, which is a big improvement visually. I have never seen any direct comparisons of the current versions of both on multiple display types to be able to judge which one was better.

Don't worry too much about small changes in dE, 0.5 dE is not noticeably worse than 0.3 dE. Things like contrast, saturation, and banding are as, if not more, important for watching video.

DisplayCal also allows a lot more control of the calibration, it has lots of options to prioritize different aspects.

[Oguignant]

That is probably too many patches, you are likely to get better results using the standard 1400.
Edit: If you have a good 3DLUT now there is no need to create a new one.

DisplayCal is open source (free) but donations are appreciated. Calman is quite expensive so one would hope it was better but Argyllcms (what DisplayCal uses to do the calibration) has improved a lot in the last couple of years, it is very good now. Not that is was bad before but it used to have minor banding sometimes because it prioritized accuracy over everything, now it is willing to reduce accuracy a tiny bit to avoid any banding, which is a big improvement visually. I have never seen any direct comparisons of the current versions of both on multiple display types to be able to judge which one was better.

Don't worry too much about small changes in dE, 0.5 dE is not noticeably worse than 0.3 dE. Things like contrast, saturation, and banding are as, if not more, important for watching video.

DisplayCal also allows a lot more control of the calibration, it has lots of options to prioritize different aspects.

I'm using DisplayCal now. Calman is great for Tv calibration. To calibrate tv as a monitor, is poor. Displaycal is much better for automatic calibration. I think because it creates a lut + matrix profile. Calman only creates a matrix profile and is not very precise. I use Calman to do a 2-point calibration and then create a profile with DisplayCal. It really looks fabulous.

To create 3d lut for Madvr how should I do it? Creating it from the yxz matrix profile that already caliber? Or is there another way?

Where I can find an advanced guide that explains all the options of DisplayCal (in detail) and also a guide on how to create the 3dlut file for Madvr. I think for a tv oled should make some adjustments in the options.

[VBB]

Where I can find an advanced guide that explains all the options of DisplayCal (in detail) and also a guide on how to create the 3dlut file for Madvr. I think for a tv oled should make some adjustments in the options.

See here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/1471169-madvr-argyllcms.html

Florian, the developer, posts regularly and answers questions/helps with issues. Madshi is also fairly active over there, as is the developer of ArgyllCMS.

[Arm3nian]

A correction was uploaded for my specific display a few days ago. But it says matrix. And it gives quite different results compared to the generic spectrals I was using. Any one have more information on this?

[heimerdinger]

I ended up returning the VP2780-4k. I wasn't happy with it. Cost $100 to ship it all the way to New York from Las Vegas but it's better than paying $700+ for something that doesn't impress you.

I ended up getting the PG279q. A lot of units have QC issues, but they seem to be getting better. Mine doesn't have anything serious, but it does have some uniformity issues. They're all over the monitor when you look for it on lets say a red background. The most noticeable is on a white background when on web pages, where the top 30% looks significantly more dim than the rest.

I don't think the PG279q comes factory calibrated, but after my i1 pro and dispcal calibration, the difference was obvious. A single windows calibration looked better than all the profiles and 3d luts I made with the previous display. The contrast is also really good, 1200+ after calibration, and blacks look nice for an IPS.

The gaming features are a little gimmicky imho. The display goes up to 165Hz, but it's hard to notice much difference after 120Hz, maybe even before it. ULMB pwm flicker just makes my head hurt after 5 min of use, and has ridiculous ghosting, making it unusable. Gsync is cool, but it's badly implemented on the software side. Blizzard games for examples don't work properly with it. For diablo 3, you need to enable vsync in game and turn off fps cap for it to work, which causes micro stuttering .
In WoW, the fps limiter in game is completely broken, and 3rd party doesn't work correctly with the engine. My 980ti can easily maintain 165fps in a specific area (and the game in general), but it drops to 128-153 randomly in the same exact area with the gpu at 65% load and the cpu at 23%. In more demanding games, you don't get a huge stutter, but I can still feel choppiness when it drops to 60's. That's the biggest problem with high refresh rate. After 165Hz, 60Hz is disgusting until your brain adjusts. 1440p is nice. I sit about about a foot away, and often can notice the pixels, where it was impossible to on 4k. But at least I don't have to deal with scaling issues.




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:scared:






Aheadworks (https://blog.magestore.com/aheadworks-partnership)

[chros]

A correction was uploaded for my specific display a few days ago. But it says matrix. And it gives quite different results compared to the generic spectrals I was using. Any one have more information on this?
Well, matrix is supposed to be used if You have created it for the given display. If you want to use others' you'll never get proper results.

[Siso]

A correction was uploaded for my specific display a few days ago. But it says matrix. And it gives quite different results compared to the generic spectrals I was using. Any one have more information on this?

I would suggest using the spectral correction.

[x7007]

If I have LG55C6 OLED TV , I've set BT.1886 and everything look good with it. should I also change MadVR in Calibration to BT.709 Pure power curve 2.40 ? do I need to disable GPU gamma ramps ? I didn't touch the GPU driver gamma.


Do I need to enable Color&gamma if I just use calibration one or just one of them ?

[huhn]

Is there a need to use the Madvr reduce ringing artifacts ? because this thing takes 15 ms on rendering time.
not sure what this has todo with calibration

If I have LG55C6 OLED TV , I've set BT.1886 and everything look good with it. should I also change MadVR in Calibration to BT.709 Pure power curve 2.40 ? do I need to disable GPU gamma ramps ? I didn't touch the GPU driver gamma.
what? are you setting. setting a TV to bt709 or bt1886(which doesn't really exist for OLED) that doesn't mean the TV is now calibrated to Bt709 or Bt1886

Do I need to enable Color&gamma if I just use calibration one or just one of them ?
depends on what you want. if your screen si calibrated to 2.4 and you don't set both "this display is already calibrated" to gamma 2.4 and color and gamma processing to 2.4 you >may< not get 2.4 gamma.

it's pretty complicated and pretty simple at the same time.

[x7007]

not sure what this has todo with calibration


what? are you setting. setting a TV to bt709 or bt1886(which doesn't really exist for OLED) that doesn't mean the TV is now calibrated to Bt709 or Bt1886


depends on what you want. if your screen si calibrated to 2.4 and you don't set both "this display is already calibrated" to gamma 2.4 and color and gamma processing to 2.4 you >may< not get 2.4 gamma.

it's pretty complicated and pretty simple at the same time.

ha, I deleted the first one .

What I meant is the TV has Gamma option for 2.2 and BT.1886 .

In Madvr I choose this device is already calibrated and 2.4 which mean I will get 2.4 ? well ye . but I must to do it if I choose BT.1886, because if I don't it will be 2.2 or somewhere around it and not the right one that I set, because I see the changes on the video, 2.4 looks better.

[huhn]

sorry but a gamma option in a TV is worthless without proper calibration.

BT 1886 is gamma 2.4 on an OLED.
without gamma processing nothing happen under calibration.

without measuring your gamma you are just playing around.

if you set gamma 2.4 under calibration and gamma 2.2 under gamma processing the gamma will be lowered to 2.20 on a perfectly 2.4 gamma calibrated screen.

[x7007]

sorry but a gamma option in a TV is worthless without proper calibration.

BT 1886 is gamma 2.4 on an OLED.
without gamma processing nothing happen under calibration.

without measuring your gamma you are just playing around.

if you set gamma 2.4 under calibration and gamma 2.2 under gamma processing the gamma will be lowered to 2.20 on a perfectly 2.4 gamma calibrated screen.

I know BT 1886 is gamma 2.4 .

Proper calibration you mean I need to use 400$ device to calibrate ? isn't it enough just to set on the TV BT 1886 on the TV and set Calibration this tv has been calibrated 2.4 power curve . and gamma processing to 2.4 power curve ?

You are explaining something but not explaining everything, I just trying to understand what I eventually need to do . I still don't know what are my options .

[Asmodian]

It depends on the TV, some are quite accurate and some are terrible.

If you don't use "color and gamma" only the gamut option there is important, and that has nothing to do with the gamma option on your TV. There is no reason to use "color and gamma" to set a gamma unless you want something besides your TV's native gamma.

My TV (LG OLED55C7P) has a reasonably accurate pure power 2.4 when set to "BT.1886" so that would be a good option for me but because that option doesn't do anything it isn't important to set it.

However, the right gamut option is important. My uncalibrated gamut (out of the box) was reasonably accurate and close to DCI-P3, only slightly undersaturated, when set to "wide" gamut. When set to "enhanced" gamut and it is actually pretty close to BT.709, but less accurate and slightly oversaturated.

I wouldn't know any of this without a meter and I am not sure how similar the C7 is to the C6. :o

[x7007]

It depends on the TV, some are quite accurate and some are terrible.

If you don't use "color and gamma" only the gamut option there is important, and that has nothing to do with the gamma option on your TV. There is no reason to use "color and gamma" to set a gamma unless you want something besides your TV's native gamma.

My TV (LG OLED55C7P) has a reasonably accurate pure power 2.4 when set to "BT.1886" so that would be a good option for me but because that option doesn't do anything it isn't important to set it.



However, the right gamut option is important. My uncalibrated gamut (out of the box) was reasonably accurate and close to DCI-P3, only slightly undersaturated, when set to "wide" gamut. When set to "enhanced" gamut and it is actually pretty close to BT.709, but less accurate and slightly oversaturated.

I wouldn't know any of this without a meter and I am not sure how similar the C7 is to the C6. :o


You suppose to use the AUTO on the C7 , for HDR and also for Bluray. you only use WIDE when using Dolby Vision.
For C6 it's NORMAL , WIDE is trying to use DCI-P3 color gamut and if you try to watch movie bluray BT.601 or BT.709 then it ruins the red colours, also HDR you want NORMAL. you only use WIDE on DCI-P3 which is dolby vision and this one uses this color gamut.
https://youtu.be/hGtBfcokfto?t=6s
So they only setting I need to change is this monitor is calibrated ?

Because when I only use Color & Gamma then I see something changes when choosing 2.40 or 2.2 I see it becomes darker.

What is the Calibration is good for when choosing this display is already calibrated ? with BT.709 gamut and pure power curve 2.40 ? which the TV is set to BT 1886 which is 2.40 .

I don't understand if it actually do something when I don't see any visible difference, but I do see different when changing the color & Gamma.

I mean Madvr already knows it's BT.709 so I calibrated it to it. I don't know exactly how close it is to 2.40 , but what does it actually do if I don't see any change in the picture ?
When , why people need to use it ?

[Asmodian]

You suppose to use the AUTO on the C7 , for HDR and also for Bluray. you only use WIDE when using Dolby Vision.
For C6 it's NORMAL , WIDE is trying to use DCI-P3 color gamut and if you try to watch movie bluray BT.601 or BT.709 then it ruins the red colours, also HDR you want NORMAL. you only use WIDE on DCI-P3 which is dolby vision and this one uses this color gamut.

It is very different when using a 3DLUT. ;)

I use a meter to setup the TV to be as accurate as possible with its wide gamut (which it is naturally more accurate in too). I then use Calman to profile the TV (measure 3000 different color patches) and build a 256x256x256 lookup table so madVR can map every color to the native gamut of the TV as accurately as possible. This way BT.709 is perfect BT.709, BT.601 is perfect BT.601, EBU/PAL is perfect EBU/PAL, and DCI-P3 is perfect DCI-P3. :)

So they only setting I need to change is this monitor is calibrated ?

Yes.

What is the Calibration is good for when choosing this display is already calibrated ? with BT.709 gamut and pure power curve 2.40 ? which the TV is set to BT 1886 which is 2.40 .

The gamut is important and has nothing to do with the gamma, they are independent settings. Since you set your TV's gamut to "normal" BT.709 is the correct gamut. If you set your TV to "wide" DCI-P3 would be the correct gamut. madVR will convert content with other gamuts to look correct in your calibrated gamut, like with a 3DLUT except it assumes a perfect gamut instead of having measurements.

I don't understand if it actually do something when I don't see any visible difference, but I do see different when changing the color & Gamma.

I mean Madvr already knows it's BT.709 so I calibrated it to it. I don't know exactly how close it is to 2.40 , but what does it actually do if I don't see any change in the picture ?
When , why people need to use it ?

You would use "color and gamma" if you wanted to change the gamma sometimes without re-calibrating your TV.

Since you chose BT.1886 for gamma on your TV you would set your display to an already calibrated pure power 2.4. Then in "color & gamma" you could set it to a 2.2 gamma when your room was brighter during the day. madVR changes the picture so that when displayed on your TV's native gamma it looks like a gamma of 2.2 instead.

[x7007]

It is very different when using a 3DLUT. ;)

I use a meter to setup the TV to be as accurate as possible with its wide gamut (which it is naturally more accurate in too). I then use Calman to profile the TV (measure 3000 different color patches) and build a 256x256x256 lookup table so madVR can map every color to the native gamut of the TV as accurately as possible. This way BT.709 is perfect BT.709, BT.601 is perfect BT.601, EBU/PAL is perfect EBU/PAL, and DCI-P3 is perfect DCI-P3. :)



Yes.



The gamut is important and has nothing to do with the gamma, they are independent settings. Since you set your TV's gamut to "normal" BT.709 is the correct gamut. If you set your TV to "wide" DCI-P3 would be the correct gamut. madVR will convert content with other gamuts to look correct in your calibrated gamut, like with a 3DLUT except it assumes a perfect gamut instead of having measurements.



You would use "color and gamma" if you wanted to change the gamma sometimes without re-calibrating your TV.

Since you chose BT.1886 for gamma on your TV you would set your display to an already calibrated pure power 2.4. Then in "color & gamma" you could set it to a 2.2 gamma when your room was brighter during the day. madVR changes the picture so that when displayed on your TV's native gamma it looks like a gamma of 2.2 instead.


So if I'm already using 2.4 on the TV and I want 2.4 from Madvr then I need to put already calibrated or not calibrated ? would that make any different ?

If I always want 2.4 and not need for 2.2 because 2.4 looks better then I would need to use use color and gamma or only when I want to change to say from 2.4 to 2.2 like you said ? there is no need to put 2.4 if I use 2.4 ?

Those 2 questions are the ones I'm looking for overall. is that really needed because I don't understand what no calibrated and already calibrated are doing, it looks the same to me from info details and picture details. so I can't notice any different .
The real question is what is the Already calibrated good for compared to the no calibrated . and if so 2.4 is what I want then I don't need color & Gamma because I don't want to change to other gamma say 2.2 from 2.4 ?

[Asmodian]

So if I'm already using 2.4 on the TV and I want 2.4 from Madvr then I need to put already calibrated or not calibrated ? would that make any different ?

Put already calibrated BT.709 gamut. No, it will not make any difference.

If I always want 2.4 and not need for 2.2 because 2.4 looks better then I would need to use use color and gamma or only when I want to change to say from 2.4 to 2.2 like you said ? there is no need to put 2.4 if I use 2.4 ?

If you don't want to change your gamma do not use that setting.

Do not set anything in "color & gamma", leave it disabled.

The real question is what is the Already calibrated good for compared to the no calibrated . and if so 2.4 is what I want then I don't need color & Gamma because I don't want to change to other gamma say 2.2 from 2.4 ?

I have tried to answer this a few times, what didn't you understand in my last post?

No calibrated and already calibrated are actually the same in your case, no calibrated assumes a BT.709 gamut and the gamma setting doesn't do anything unless you want to change your gamma with "color & gamma".

[hajosattila]

sorry for my bad English guys!

I have calibrated my Tv display for gamma bt1886. (CALMAN image attached) How should I configure madvr? Pure power curve 2.30 or 2.40 OR :) forget BT.1886 and do I calibrate power pure 2.4? (Contrast Ratio 4235)
I do not want to use 3D LUT for now...

Thanks in advice!

[Asmodian]

That setting in madVR is not important. It will change nothing.

Unless you also use "color & gamma" to change your gamma away from your calibration. The setting in calibration only lets madVR know how to change your gamma to something else, if you want to, nothing else.

The correct setting in madVR for BT.1866 is pure power 2.4.

I recommend you stay with your BT.1886 calibration, though I cannot see your attachment yet. It is better to post a link to an image instead of attaching it. :)

[hajosattila]

Thank you Asmodian! Here is the link: https://i.imgur.com/FfXz1Tc.jpg

5% black level: The TV does not support it 5% increments. (only 10pt... 10 - 100% in 10% increments) I can not fix this... :/

The correct setting in madVR for BT.1866 is pure power 2.4.

That's for sure?

Thanks