Evaluation of HEVC decoders (SW, Hybrid and HW)

[NikosD]

On my old rig, the HEVC VE occasionally hangs on the middle of a UHD 120fps clip in Movie&TV; I tried the similar clips on the old school WMP who claims it also uses the HEVC VE although being replaced by Movie&TV, the hanging never happened then... but still may need more tests to confirm... What is your Windows OS version ?
I'm not sure that WMP uses MFT filters at all or in higher priority than DS filters.
Although there was a time IIRC that could use both, first priority MFT decoders and if failed or non-existent it was falling back to DS filters.
Probably LAV filters or other DS decoders installed on your old rig are doing the job of HEVC decoding.

[NikosD]

I'm eager to read about AV1 decoding performance of Xe, but unfortunately I can't see how could I test it.

I hope someone will buy a laptop or desktop processor with Xe inside and AMD/ nVidia jump to AV1 wagon sooner rather than later.

[NikosD]

I had high hopes that maybe after years and years the new AMD RDNA2 GPU architecture of Navi 21 could beat Ampere or at least be very close to Ampere GPU of nVidia.

The last rumors regarding Navi 31, the next next generation RDNA3 are not good regarding RDNA2, it could be a sign that RDNA2 didn't make it.

Ampere for gaming will be released on early September and Navi 21 for gaming probably around November.

So, let's wait just a few months more and hope that both of them have added AV1 fixed-function decoder like Intel did with Tigerlake launching September 2nd but only as internal iGPU for start.

[aufkrawall]

Funny: For once it isn't madVR that is affected by driver bugs, but mpv: I'm getting delayed frames with D3D11VA Polaris and recent drivers + 144Hz display. AMD Windows driver team did it again.
It (of course) works fine on Linux Xorg with VAAPI...

[NikosD]

Rumors are at highest level, but nVidia offered yesterday an official date of Ampere:

August 31th.

Latest leaks are talking about 20GB and even 24GB VRAM for Ampere.
AMD is at 16GB for RDNA2.

AMD is going to beat 3080 but above this, it's very difficult.

There is a marketing game or war right now and it's not easy to find out what is really going on with so many info.

But the day is coming.

[el Filou]

So Tiger Lake will have 8K60 decode but no HDMI 2.1. :(
I know it's a laptop chip so it's not that useful, but it would be on something like a NUC. It's a pity they're still lagging one generation behind what the best TVs are capable of when it comes to HDMI.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15973/the-intel-xelp-gpu-architecture-deep-dive-building-up-from-the-bottom/6

[Yups]

Renoir doesn't support HDMI 2.1 either though and I don't think it's a big deal for Tigerlake-U. 4k devices are super premium and rare, out of 500 Icelake devices there are like 10 devices with 4K displays. Adding HDMI 2.1 would have increased the die size quite a lot for a small nice, this is a bad return on investment.

[NikosD]

He probably said that combined with the ability to decode VP9/HEVC streams up to 8K60 fps.

Renoir doesn't have that fast decoder.

Anyway, Tigerlake is well described, the only thing left is to measure decoding performance.
I think is going to be faster than Turing in both VP9/ HEVC and with additional support of AV1 HW decoding.

I can't wait to see nVidia's GeForce Ampere card supporting PCIe v4.0 and HDMI 2.1 along with a new decoder capable of AV1 8K HW decoding and faster 8K HEVC/VP9 decoding.

Hope exactly the same for RDNA2.

Of course the same goes for HW encoding and gaming performance.

Around the end of this year, all options for CPUs (Rocket Lake vs Zen 3) and GPUs (Ampere vs RDNA2) will be on the table for Cyberpunk 2077 :) and MS Flight Sim 2020 :)

[NikosD]

For the first time in recent history that I remember, nVidia seems to be afraid of AMD and that's good because also for the first time, prices look reasonable.

The presentation from leather-jacket man was mainly marketing and less technical and too short.

It seems that Big Navi and next-gen consoles pushed hard nVidia.

By eliminating Titan series and making it a Geforce 3090 card with 1500$ price it seems that this card will be unreachable by AMD, but 3080 will have competition.

So, PCIe v4.0 is here like HDMI 2.1 and AV1 decoding.

Fingers crossed for Big Navi.

[chros]

"presentation from leather-jacket" :D Yes, you know, just like one of us :D
Yes, I agree, although prices are still (very?) high for me. I'll be curious about AV1 decoding when time comes...

[wanezhiling]

I just need a GT3005 card.:p

[chros]

Or 3000.01 :D

[NikosD]

Has anyone kept a recent copy of MS HEVC Video Extension decoder or know a way to download it for free ?

Recent changes to MS policy prohibit free download of the HEVC decoder, even from the device manufacturer page:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/hevc-video-extensions-from-device-manufacturer/9n4wgh0z6vhq?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

[Klaus1189]

I am not sure, but I think I found it (https://www.free-codecs.com/hevc_video_extension_download.htm)

[NikosD]

It works like a charm, thank you!

[wanezhiling]

who has 8k hevc 8-bit 60p clips?

[VictorLS]

who has 8k hevc 8-bit 60p clips?
I have not - I have just 4K H265 60fps 8bit
But if you really need 8K H265 60fps 8bit do it by yourself

[littleD]

Interesting. Vulkan +Video hardware Acceleration.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Vulkan-Video-Provisional-Spec

[wanezhiling]

DXVA Checker 4.5.2 (https://bluesky-soft.com/en/DXVAChecker.html)

Version 4.5.2 (04/17/2021)
Fixed incorrect parameters when blitting in DXVA2 Video Processor under specific situations
(this:) (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1940592#post1940592))

[littleD]

https://www.saschawillems.de/blog/2021/04/24/vulkan-hardware-capability-viewer-3.01-released/

This version also adds support for the video decode and encode queue family flags that have been introduced with the provisional Vulkan Video acceleration extensions.

[nevcairiel]

Its important to note that Vulkan video acceleration currently only supports H264 and HEVC, so it still has ways to go to become even remotely viable by supporting a much wider variety of codecs that we all expect by now. :)

[pureocean]

The display times of subtitle lines don't usually occur in keyframes.

I can't read subtitle lines fast. I get back frequently when playback. When I jump to the previous/next line of the subtitle (HOME+END key in PotPlayer / CTRL+Left/Right Arrow key in mpv), I cannot tolerate a little lag of the frame refresh. Because of this reason I always turn off H/W (DXVA) for H264 decoding, which it causes the image to be slow displayed in Radeon R7 240.

Which of the both cards below that support H/W 1080p 10-bit HEVC decoding does the least latency when seeking non-keyframe, even if DXVA2/D3D11 is on?

Is GeForce GT 1030 or Radeon RX 550?

[huhn]

i can't remember anyone doing seek tests but polaris cards can barely do 60 FPS UHD meaning the nvidia cards are massively faster in terms of decoding but and here we go yet again i can remember a 1030 test and the Vram of that card can be a problem for real world playback.

if you want the fastest seeks a better CPU is what you want.

[Asmodian]

The DDR4 or GDDR5 GT 1030? If you do get a GT 1030 make sure it is not the DDR4 one, the memory is simply too slow for great hardware decoding (or great anything). Most listings do mention the type of memory used.

I agree with huhn, a faster CPU with software decoding is better for seeking.

supporting a much wider variety of codecs that we all expect by now.

:thanks:

[pureocean]

@huhn and @Asmodian,

Thank you both for your informations and advices.

I upgraded my old CPU (Phenom II X3) to Ryzen 5 3600 last summer. The non-keyframe seeking performance has really improved.

On my old CPU, non-keyframe seeking performance of FFMpeg-based decoders (LAV and MPC-BE's MPCVideoDec) was not good. That's why I was using Lentoid HEVC Decoder. I easily use LAV and MPCVideoDec on the Ryzen 5 3600. Moreover, in combination with MPC VideoRenderer and Bluesky Frame Rate Converter.

Actually, my R7 240 (https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/asus-r7-240-low-profile.b2487) is still enough for me. Recently I removed the fan jumper (noising). But the card came overheating when playing 10-bit HEVC 1080p. I replaced the fan. Also flashed the lastest VBIOS (https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/187194/asus-r7240-2048-150416).

AMD's Oland (GNC1.0 series, UVD 4) lacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder#Format_support) H/W 10-bit support. My goal to use DXVA2 / D3D11 in both H264 and HEVC without lag when non-keyframe seeking.

If I buy a new card, I will prefer GT 1030 (Of course, GDDR5 is very important. MPN Model: V809-2498R, GTIN/EAN: 4719072520113).

Also, Nvidia pays more attention to video codec decoding and encoding. They have documentation listing supported models for this.

https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-and-decode-gpu-support-matrix-new
https://docs.nvidia.com/video-technologies/video-codec-sdk/nvdec-application-note/
https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-video-codec-sdk
https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/nvidia-ffmpeg-transcoding-guide/

They even recently added the Vulkan Video Hardware Acceleration mentioned here to the GT 1030 (https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/displayreport.php?id=11106#extensions).

If I buy Geforce, I will be deprived of AMD's Fluid Motion but there are alternatives (madVR, SVP).

[mariner]

Greetings.

8K AV1: Intel Iris XE or UHD 750?

1. The built-in IRIS XE GPU of Tiger Lake 1165G7 has added support for 8K AV1 decoding. While decoder performance suggests it could handle it, playback performance struggled at 50fps. Does anyone have success with this? Would faster/more ram help? Memory used is 16GB 2666MHz DDR4.

2. Does the UHD 750 GPU have AV1 support? Would it perform better?

3. What about AMD GPU?

Thanks and best regards,

[v0lt]

2. Does the UHD 750 GPU have AV1 support? Would it perform better?
Intel UHD 750 supports AV1 decoding.
The adapter plays 4k AV1 10-bit HDR 60fps from YouTube stably.
I don't need 8k.

[clsid]

When support for a higher resolution gets added in a GPU decoder it is usually just 30 fps. Later generation then improves performance further to support 60 fps.

I doubt you will find 8k60 content beyond demo stuff. So who cares.

[mariner]

8K/60p AV1 HDR YT video: more testing with Iris XE Graphics

Thanks for the kind reply, v0lt and clsid.

1. While DXVAchecker struggled with 8K AV1 video, w10 built-in movies player handled it beautifully with 90% GPU usage. As the decoder used by both is presumably the same, does anyone have any insight how w10 managed this?

2. Potplayer's AV1 decoder could handle 4K AV1 video, but struggled at 8K.

3. LAV filters could not deal with even the 4K version as it doesn't seem to have AV1 decoding capability. As I'm new to using w10 for video playback, would appreciate any advice setting up the filter: Should DXVA2(native) or D3D11/Intel Iris XE Graphics be selected?

4. Any idea if UHD 750/770 would offer similar w10 performance?

5. What about RYZEN CPU?

Thanks and best regards,

[v0lt]

1. While DXVAchecker struggled with 8K AV1 video, w10 built-in movies player handled it beautifully with 90% GPU usage. As the decoder used by both is presumably the same, does anyone have any insight how w10 managed this?
1. What file did you play? (only a file and not a stream from the network)
2. Is it 8-bit or 10-bit?
3. How did you check the output frame rate?

[clsid]

LAV supports AV1 just fine.

The Intel driver does not support DXVA2 hardware acceleration for AV1 video. Only D3D11.

You must NOT select the GPU in the hardware acceleration settings because that forces copyback mode, which is slower. If you have two GPUs, then you can specify the default one in the Windows display settings.

You must also use a video renderer that supports D3D11 native mode and D3D11 processing. So you need to use MPC VR.

[mariner]

Thanks for the kind reply, clsid.

1. With MPC-VR is use, MPC can now play 4K AV1 YT video at 60fps. 8K is still a struggle at single digit fps. LAV filter setting is as follows, correct?

Hardware Decoder: D3D11
Hardware Device: Automatic (Native)

2. LAV filter does not show up as MF decoder in DXVA Checker, but as unsupported under DS. 4K AV1 video playback can only reach 40fps. Does this look correct?

3. v0lt has a question about how to check playback frame rate when using w10 movies player. Any one?

Thanks and best regards,

[v0lt]

3. v0lt has a question about how to check playback frame rate when using w10 movies player. Any one?
For Windows Media Player, you can use Fraps (https://fraps.com/).

[mariner]

8K/60p AV1 HDR YT video: web browser testing with Iris XE Graphics

1. Chrome will play 8K AV1 video at 60p with some dropped frames, but maintaining A/V sync. Performance is somewhat erratic: seems to be most well behaved when PC first booted up, and increased dropped frames if played in full screen. Not clear if it is hardware related. Anyone?

2. Firefox would not serve up the the HDR AV1 version despite claiming otherwise. Anyone have any success with firefox?

Many thanks and best regards,

[littleD]

New 101.0 firefox has improvements:
AV1 codec parameters are now properly parsed in media support queries. This means that MediaCapabilities.decodingInfo(), HTMLMediaElement.canPlayType(), and MediaSource.isTypeSupported() will now accurately report support for playback for AV1 sources based on the provided codec parameters. MediaCapabilities.decodingInfo() will also use the information to accurately report on "efficient decoding" of AV1 videos. For more information, see bug 1757861.

Not sure if this resolves anything on YT side.

[mariner]

Thanks for the kind reply, littleD.
Tried 101.0, no good. Any hidden setting in about:config that needs to be turned on?
It seems the issue is not codec. PQ/HLG clips are not available on YT when using FF. Incompatibility issue?
FTWAI, Edge can do AV1/HDR at 4K/60p.
Many thanks and best regards,

[mariner]

Chrome 8K60p AV1 video.
Apologies for posting 4k screencap in earlier post.:D

[Yups]

https://twitter.com/hjc4869/status/1541721105949331457


Arc A380 by far the fastest hardware decoder, nothing comes close. I think the decoder might be the same as in TGL or ADL iGPUs but the clock speed is so much higher (2450 Mhz Arc vs 1100 Mhz TGL in this test), although I don't know if the video playback clock speed on Arc is the same as the 3d clock speed.

[nevcairiel]

At some point speed really stops mattering, unless you make a media processing server. Also its hilarious that they compared to AMD cards, the worst contender in the decode lottery. :D

[P.J]

Which one is better for AV1? RTX 3050 vs RX 6600? :confused: