Evaluation of HEVC decoders (SW, Hybrid and HW)

[NikosD]

We can't see ANY of your screenshots posted in this thread, due to the way you keep on posting them.

Please DELETE EVERY SCREENSHOT you have already uploaded in your last few posts and stop ignoring our comments regarding your screenshots and use an external image hoster.

Thank you.

I don't understand, did I something wrong? :scared:

Of course not.

He wasn't referring to you.

[littleD]

8K playback on w10: MTV vs DXVA Checker vs MPC

Test system: Stock i7 7500u/HD620/16GB DDR3 1600 RAM/2k display
OS: w10.1803.285, pagefile disabled.

1. While HD620 can decode 8K HEVC10bit in hardware, MTV plays the 59fps 4in1 clip in slow motion, while MPC and Potplayer cannot display the video. What does the creator of the clip use for playback?

2. The 8K HEVC8bit LondonEye test clip is too short to allow any meaningful conclusion drawn. Longer samples most welcome.

3. 8K VP9 8bits: Test sample used Yellowstone is a randomly selected 8k 59fps yt clip (those numbered 272).
(a) MTV: Plays smoothly, but there could be a hint of video lag at the end. Clip too short to be conclusive. Is there a way to check frame rate in MTV?

(b) DXVA Checker:
(i) Playback performance benchmark comes in lower that playback benchmark. It is also 1/3 slower than w7's benchmark.
(ii) While playback is smooth for both LAV filters and MF decoder, video soon lags behind audio. LAV actually outperforms MF here.
(iii) Does this mean a different decoder unidentified by DXVA Checker is used by MTV for playback?

(c) MPC, POT and VLC; Can't handle any 8K clip. VLC suffers from decoding artifacts.

4. Suggestions to tweak the system for better performance most welcome.
Mariner, Mpchc/lav filters cannot cope with 8k 60 fps files with intel hardware, just take it. I believe it is close though. MPC HC shows picture, just wait long enough, sometime picture appears after a while.
MTV can play 8k 60 fps, but it plays just that framerate with no headroom. So you can expect occasional glitches when system got busy with something.

[NikosD]

8k mpc playback.

While DXVA checker suggested these 8k clips are well behaved, mpc tells a different story. What's going on?
The explanation could be easier than it looks like so far.

DXVA Checker uses EVR and MPC uses EVR-CP by default IIRC.
But EVR-CP is taxing a lot more Intel's iGPU than vanilla EVR.

Try vanilla EVR using MPC and tell us your results without posting screenshots.

[littleD]

Yes, you are right. For me, Lav filters and mpc hc vanila evr plays 8k 60 fps 8bit fluid on intel. I didnt take it into consideration. Virtual shared memory was 60% in use so safe margin.

[NikosD]

8K playback on w10: MTV vs DXVA Checker vs MPC

Test system: Stock i7 7500u/HD620/16GB DDR3 1600 RAM/2k display
OS: w10.1803.285, pagefile disabled.

1) Since you have kept your hardware the same moving from Win 7 to Win 10, what is the difference between these two Windows versions regarding performance on 4K and 8K clips ?

Both HEVC and VP9 and both playback and decoding performance.

2) Your RAM configuration is slow DDR3 1600 MHz and even if it's dual channel, still can't compete with dual DDR4 2400 MHz, obviously.

This could be important for Intel's iGPU performance.

Probably @littleD has a desktop platform with dual DDR4.

3) Did you do a clean install of Win 10 by formatting your disk or just an upgrade over Win 7 ?

[mariner]

More 8kVP9 testing with something more suitable: gaming clips with gunshots and dialogue.
Sample links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcvmrTsZuDM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng0maaop--w

1. MTV and Edge: Both clips maintained a/v sync till the end, although a couple of frames of video delay was introduced by MTV. Edge, however, was able to play these clips with zero latency, and perhaps a tad more fluidity. Simply amazing, wonder if any downsizing is done. Would be great if there's a way to check the frame rate.

2. DXVA Checker: Playback frame rate again came in below 60, and a/v was clearly out of sync. Once again LAV outperformed MF decoder here suffering less video lag. Does anyone know if the MF decoder is used by MTV and Edge?

3. MPC: At the suggestion of Nikos and LittleD, plain vanilla EVR was used for testing. But result was just as poor.

4. Graphedit: Was not able to get DXVA working. CPU usage stayed in the 60s. Anyone?

Based on these limited test results, HD620 is inadequate to support DS playback of 8K. Wonder if the new models are better? On the other hand, MTV and Edge seem optimized for 8KVP9 playback, although 8kHEVC remains out of reach.

More screen caps for your enjoyment.

[mariner]

Greetings Nikos,
1. Both systems are clean install, using default settings.
2. Benchmarks are more or less on par on both systems, with the exception of playback performance benchmark. Otherwise, the main draw of w10 appears to be MTV and Edge playback of 8KVP9. The w7 system will be tested with different drivers to see if there's any improvement.
3. It's be good if members with success, especially with these cheap HD620, could kindly share there set-up, test samples and playback settings.

Many thank and best regards,

[mariner]

try it again with this version: https://github.com/clsid2/mpc-hc/releases

Thanks for the kind reply, huhn.

8K playback appears to be worse using D3D11. Is this expected?

Many thanks and best regards,

[NikosD]

@mariner

Interesting results.

1) Did you use Edge for offline playback of the clips ?

Because IIRC YouTube doesn't provide such resolutions and high FPS for any browser besides Chrome.

Edge is probably using the same MFT decoder like MTV as a Microsoft product.

2) Can you try to oveclock your iGPU only ? (Not the CPU)
It's very easy using BIOS if it has this option.

The GPU clock is being used by the VPU too (QuickSync ASIC)

[mariner]

1. Edge browser. 0 dropped frames in 20min of 8k60p yt clip. Too good to be true?
2. Will likely brick the system.

[clsid]

Does anyone know if the MF decoder is used by MTV and EdgeYes it is.
8K playback appears to be worse using D3D11. Is this expected?Yes. It should also only be used in combination with Madvr, as then it can switch to native mode. Once Madvr gets a full D3D11 rendering chain, D3D11 decoding will probably get equal/better performance compared to DXVA2 native.

Another interesting test would be the performance impact of the resizer setting for EVR-CP. Test with 4k in that case.

[mariner]

Yes it is.
Yes. It should also only be used in combination with Madvr, as then it can switch to native mode. Once Madvr gets a full D3D11 rendering chain, D3D11 decoding will probably get equal/better performance compared to DXVA2 native.

Another interesting test would be the performance impact of the resizer setting for EVR-CP. Test with 4k in that case.

Thanks for the kind reply, clsid.

1. MF under performs when used in DXVA Checker, while the reverse is usually the case for other filters. Do you know why?
2. When LAV's D3D11 option is elected, MPC indicates DXVA not in use, and CPU usage hits the roof. So D3D11 does not use HW decoding?
3. Would D3D11/madvr outperform native DXVA2 in HD620?
4. Can't get LAV to perform HW decoding in Graphedit. Can you help?
5.Any step by step instruction on changing resize setting for EVR-CP?
Many thanks and best regards,

[clsid]

1. Don't know.
2. Not in that case.
3. Maybe in future. Don't expect any significant difference.
4. That is because the system default renderer is VMR-7. Construct the entire graph manually, and use EVR as renderer.
5. MPC-HC options > playback > output > resizer

[mariner]

Thanks for the kind reply clsid.
EVR is used in the filter chain. See my last post on previous page.

[mariner]

...
4. That is because the system default renderer is VMR-7. Construct the entire graph manually, and use EVR as renderer.
...

EVR was in used when CPU usage hits the roof. See srceen cap previous post.

Many thanks and best regards,

[clsid]

If it works with 4k then you are doing things correctly. If it only doesn't work with 8k60, then you should just give up. It don't understand why you even want to play 8k when your screen is just 2k.

[nevcairiel]

8K requires a 64bit Player. Make sure to use that.

[mariner]

8K requires a 64bit Player. Make sure to use that.

Thanks for the kind reply nevcairiel.

1. Graphedit is taken from GRMSDKX iso. Is there a way to check if these are x64? Or is there a w10 version?
2. Graphedit Studio x64 has similar problem.
3. Even 4k HEVC clip have CPU usage hitting the 90s. But 4K AVC using MS decoder is fine.
4. LAV filter is well behaved in MPC. CPU usage stays in the teens with 8k video.
5. Test system is HD620.

Appreciate if you could kindly assist.
Many thanks and best regards,

[clsid]

Use GraphStudioNext x64. And like I said before, you must manually insert all filters (LAV Splitter Source + LAV Video + EVR).

[NikosD]

New updated CPU results for LAV, Lentoid and Microsoft's H.265 decoder

System:
Win 10 x64 (10586) - Core i7-4790 - iGPU HD4600@1.5GHz - v.4326

Decoders:
LAV x64/x86 0.67.3
Lentoid x64/x86 2.1.0.0
Microsoft HEVC decoder build 10586

Comments:


1) Lentoid added 10 bit decoding with 8bit output (I420).
MS HEVC decoders 10bit decoding uses 8bit output too (NV12)

2) Lentoid x86 keeps running faster than LAV x86 by a huge margin and it's faster than MS HEVC x86 too.

3) Lentoid x64 is very close to LAV x64 and generally faster but there are strong fluctuations in the results, so sometimes it's difficult to measure both decoders.

4) The real surprise is MS HEVC x64 which is faster than anything, but only for 1080p.
In the first clip, it has some problems, it even crashes DXVA Checker when GPU acceleration is used.

But for all the other 1080p clips is definitely faster.
On the other hand, MS HEVC decoders are slow on 2160p clips and especially 10bit clips

It seems - most of the times - that whenever each decoder manages to utilize more CPU usage, it ends first in the specific clip.

It's been only almost 3 years (!) since my latest CPU evaluation of HEVC decoding, but since I've already updated my Windows 10 x64 October 2018 on an older machine by a clean install, I did a few tests.

Lentoid have recently released v2.2.0.0 r6555 and I did a very small comparison using my old Core 2 Duo (SSE4.1) vs latest LAV 0.72.0-15 and MS HEVC free extensions.


Comments:

LAV x64 is the fastest CPU decoder for HEVC.
But very close to it are both MS HEVC and Lentoid x86 (!)

Lentoid x64 is slower than Lentoid x86 (!!)

LAV x86 is awfully slow.

MS HEVC is only x64 (at least on my x64 system)

So, if you are using x64 system and CPU HEVC decoding, stick to LAV x64

If you - for some reason - are still using a x86 system, grab immediately Lentoid from here:
http://www.xhevc.com/en/downloads/downloadCenter.jsp

But the 10bit output is still I420 for Lentoid.

[alex1399]

Does the faster the CPU decoder for HEVC mean the lower the CPU loading are for HEVC with given frame-rate playback? What could be the best 720p 23fps HEVC software decoder for a poor mans' tablet? At first I thought the TV & Movie App given the native MS HEVC decoder, but the player couldn't decode closed captioning and subtitle.

[NikosD]

Yes, the faster decoder means lower CPU utilization for a given frame rate.

Regarding a budget tablet, since I owe one, I would definitely prefer a HW decoder which is inside every mobile device available.

Do you have a Windows mobile tablet ?

Mine is Android but I think you could find a player capable of HW decoding and all of the stuff that you mention.

[alex1399]

I'm afraid that the only windows mobile tablet I own doesn't have the capability to hardware decode hevc contents by its amd a6 micro 6500t apu with radeon r4 graphic. The Lentoid decoder is quite fast, but the color characteristic, aspect ratio and color range are not passed correctly. Fortunately, the render guessed right to display it in limited color range without washed color.

[littleD]

I have installed win 10 update, installed new intel drivers.

Intel drivers: Lower version of opencl with less extensions, no vulkan or cannot be detected. Rest is same on laptop for the time being

EDIT:
But don't worry. After reboot and install drivers AGAIN, all driver components are fresh and in place.

[aufkrawall]

Does D3D11VA not support HEVC 12 bit? It works with CUDA/NVDEC, but I'm not aware of any program utilizing D3D11VA that would work with it.
I haven't tested Win 10 video app, as I certainly won't pay a single buck to purchase HEVC support for it (mandatory with Win 10 1809).

[nevcairiel]

The official DXVA specification only goes up to HEVC Main10. It may work, but its not documented, and it doesn't advertise a > 10-bit output format, as far as I'm aware.
Luckily, noone uses 12-bit for anything real.

[aufkrawall]

:thanks:
Isn't it missing a problem for Dolby Vision content?

[NikosD]

I haven't tested Win 10 video app, as I certainly won't pay a single buck to purchase HEVC support for it (mandatory with Win 10 1809).
HEVC support is not included in Win 10, but you can download MS HEVC codec for free from MS Store.

[sneaker_ger]

:thanks:
Isn't it missing a problem for Dolby Vision content?
So far(*) Dolby Vision seems to rely on HEVC 10 bit. 2 bits may be added by the Dolby Vision layer.


(*) Talking about content you can actually buy as a consumer.

[aufkrawall]

HEVC support is not included in Win 10, but you can download MS HEVC codec for free from MS Store.
That's the point: It's not free anymore.

So far(*) Dolby Vision seems to rely on HEVC 10 bit. 2 bits may be added by the Dolby Vision layer.


(*) Talking about content you can actually buy as a consumer.
Thanks.

[huhn]

so does edge use this codec or not?

if edge needs this to play HEVC video in the browser than the number of edge user will be even lower...

[nevcairiel]

Which online streaming service uses HEVC? Netflix has its own app that people use, anything else?

[huhn]

isn't edge able to stream netflix unlike other browser.

but now when you said it HEVC didn't really take off.

[Crimson Wolf]

That's the point: It's not free anymore.


Thanks.

I distinctly remember the store app updating the HEVC codec from time to time. Are you saying they retroactively removed it and now I have to pay for it? I searched for HEVC and I see the price, yet I can play HEVC fine on my CPU since my GPU does not support hardware decoding.


https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-decode-gpu-support-matrix

If you try clicking on https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/hevc-video-extension/9n4wgh0z6vhq does it still say FREE or is there a price now from this link?

[nevcairiel]

It remains free for you if you had it previously installed, or have an old Windows install. Only brand new systems have to pay it, and its only one buck.
Presumably that helps to avoid additional licensing fees from HEVC Advance, because they stipulate that you don't have to pay for software decoders if they are not shipped with the device.

The hardware plugin Crimson Wolf linked above should remain free, but its only hardware decoding. Which should be enough for Netflix I reckon, since it requires modern hardware anyway.

[Crimson Wolf]

Ok, then what is aufkrawall talking about then? He talks about CUDA/NVDEC support so obviously he has some hardware supported GPU installed. He can just get the free plugin?

[aufkrawall]

You are right, the hardware decoding app is still for free.
However, it's not shown in the store's search.

The Windows 10 video app surprisingly uses hardware decoding for HEVC 12 bit video.

[el Filou]

Where do you find (commercial) 12-bit HEVC content?

[aufkrawall]

Didn't we just talk about that?

[nevcairiel]

Basically the answer is, you don't. Its not really used.

[el Filou]

OK, apologies for expressing myself badly.
What I meant is: how do you test that?
The Windows 10 video app surprisingly uses hardware decoding for HEVC 12 bit video.A google search for "hevc 12 bit sample" or "hevc 12 bit demo" or whatever doesn't give me any downloadable results. Did you encode a 12 bit file yourself just to test?

[huhn]

there are files out there but if you really want to test it you better encode it yourself.

unlike 10 bit x264 which is very useful 12 bit x265 doesn't look promising at all.

[aufkrawall]

I simply used Handbrake Nightly, dunno if the stable version already offers x265 12 bit.
But beware, there seems to be some .net Framework issue with the Nightly, crashing the whole UI rendering of Windows. You might wanna avoid that if you don't like hard resets.
Linux gtk-git version works fine.

Edit: 12 bit is already in the stable version.

[NikosD]

Is there anyone still using a Skylake CPU ?

I tried using a Core i5 6500 with VP9 DXVA2 and LAV filters but it keeps falling back to software decoding.

Is VP9 DXVA2 still usable for Skylake ?

[aufkrawall]

I don't think VP9 was ever supported by Skylake GPU.

[NikosD]

Go back in this thread at around December 2015 to see benchmark results of Yups running Win 10 on Core i7 6700K using LAV filters and DXVA Checker.

[wanezhiling]

https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/specs/
Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at millions of colors and:

One external display with 5120-by-2880 resolution at up to 60Hz

Up to two external displays with 4096-by-2304 resolution at up to 60Hz
UHD Graphics 617 (i5-8210Y) is most likely equipped with new Gen10(maybe Gen11, Icelake) display controller which supports higher resolution.

[littleD]

Not sure if that have been mentioned, but after latest win 10 update and installing newest intel drivers, i get HDR to SDR mapping in Movies and TV app. Colors look quite fresh ant not washed out anymore. I was struggling with driver installation but it was worth it. What is strange, now i have three ways to watch HDR content on SDR laptop display: by MPC HC and Madvr, by Tv and Movies app and by MPC HC BE. All three players give bit different output, color saturation and brightness/white level.

[wanezhiling]

https://i.postimg.cc/rwmT01nN/100659fxg1ihoghop55qs1.png

https://i.postimg.cc/T2SZw88Q/225002b76zs7q6btsbz8fs.jpg
much worse than pascal..

only 300 MHz??

[huhn]

300 mhz would be a good sign if it wouldn't be dropping frames.