MPC-HC GUI Discussion Thread [Archive]

dbone1026

16th July 2010, 01:02

While MPC-HC is the best player on the market, getting the latest features first (PGS support comes in mind), the GUI is outdated. At it beginnings that was done to minimize sistem resource usage, on today`s modern sistems (P4 and above mostly) the impact of a new modern GUI would be minimal.

Also, a lot of people have started using MPC-HC as a external player from 7MC/MB & XMBC (my HTPC Software Guide for Windows 7 Media Center (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1250607) also recommends MPC-HC as an external player for MKV), and the look of MPC-HC doesn`t really go to well with these modern HTPC front-ends.

I`ve done a mock-up (In Adobe Illustrator) of my ideea of a revamped GUI, with added buttons and menus for subtitle/audio tracks and chapter selection, the things a lot of people use the most.

If the developers are willing to start redesigning the GUI, i`ll be more than happy to do the entire design, everything from top to bottom, as they say.:p

Here`s how it looks (and the Illustrator file can be downloaded from here (http://www.mediafire.com/?gmmjldmygtymdnm) ):

I do like the idea of a more modern look. I understand that when all is said and done playback functionality reigns king over looks, but would be nice as time permits amongst the developers to see a more modern/functional look

Inspector.Gadget

16th July 2010, 01:29

IMO that's exactly the wrong direction to take the GUI in. MPC-HC, and before it MPC, have always featured clean design that integrates well with Windows. A look that's mainly "OS X circa 2000, as drawn in MS Paint, with some blue patches and an overweight font added" will only alienate a huge segment of the userbase, and isn't "modern" in any sense of the word. People that like the glitzy look already have an abundance of things to choose from.

mariush

16th July 2010, 02:09

While MPC-HC is the best player on the market, getting the latest features first (PGS support comes in mind), the GUI is outdated. At it beginnings that was done to minimize sistem resource usage, on today`s modern sistems (P4 and above mostly) the impact of a new modern GUI would be minimal.

Also, a lot of people have started using MPC-HC as a external player from 7MC/MB & XMBC (my HTPC Software Guide for Windows 7 Media Center (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1250607) also recommends MPC-HC as an external player for MKV), and the look of MPC-HC doesn`t really go to well with these modern HTPC front-ends.

I`ve done a mock-up (In Adobe Illustrator) of my ideea of a revamped GUI, with added buttons and menus for subtitle/audio tracks and chapter selection, the things a lot of people use the most.

If the developers are willing to start redesigning the GUI, i`ll be more than happy to do the entire design, everything from top to bottom, as they say.:p

Here`s how it looks (and the Illustrator file can be downloaded from here (http://www.mediafire.com/?gmmjldmygtymdnm) ):

While your idea and intention is good, you're obviously not an interface designer... what you did is horrible from a designer's view, as accessibility, functionality and whatever else i can think of

Midzuki

16th July 2010, 02:16

People that like the glitzy look already have an abundance of things to choose from.

That's it! The only thing that I don't like in MPC-HC's GUI is the position of the MRU list, which should be at the bottom of the File menu, and above the Exit command. And no, G.U.I. doesn't stand for "Gay User Interface". :)

Keiyakusha

16th July 2010, 02:42

GUI? Meh, it is should be known already that there is no chances to see new customizable interface in mpc-hc. No big deal! Let's hope that current GUI "that integrates well with Windows" will integrates well with something newer than windows98. What rally integrates well is WMP.Some non-players examples probably will be Firefox4 and Chrome. Also personally I'd like to see FULL matroska support (like in Haali splitter but even better) and for other containers too of course. I'd like to see subtitle renderer (internal and vsfilter) to be 50% faster than now. And some other things...
But unlikely this will happens until I became a grandfather so I will be happy if at least someone will look at small things like why "default style" option for subtitles acts weird... and why no subtitles is selected if the ones in container set to be disabled by default but external subtitles is present.

73ChargerFan

16th July 2010, 04:26

I like GreenEyez' design, especially for my family members. It would autohide anyway.

The current design isn't attractive, and not very functional. It is a list of advanced options to control playback of the current video.

And how can anyone defend the full-screen interface "green bar" slider?

Hypernova

16th July 2010, 04:31

I think if somebody would replace the current seekbar with Windows' progress bar (or a look-alike, since I guess the Windows' progress bar does not support clicking) then it would be enough to make MPC-HC integrate well with Windows within a foreseeable future. Maybe a scroll bar will work as well? Of course I do realize that saying "replace" does not mean it's that simple in the code otherwise it would have been done already.

namaiki

16th July 2010, 04:34

Oh God no..

This image might explain a few things:
http://www.infocellar.com/win98/mediaplayer-configuring_files/image009.jpg

* crosses fingers for hotlinking

...and I wouldn't mind seeing VSFilter being faster than now like Keiyakusha.

Maybe the right-click menu in full-screen could have an option for a short version with perhaps just navigation, possibly filters and full screen toggle (and another option to hold shift and right-click to see the long version, i guess).

Hypernova

16th July 2010, 04:41

Oh God no..

This image might explain a few things:

http://www.infocellar.com/win98/mediaplayer-configuring_files/image009.jpg

* crosses fingers for hotlinking

..You're right namaiki. I hide all the control bar so I didn't realize that that part is where it looks so Windows 16&32bit. I always wish that somehow someone could slap WMP's control overlay onto MPC-HC, but I think that's asking too much so I kind of hope replacing only seeking has higher chance, but now..

Well, I can live with the old school GUI as long as the features are there :cool:

namaiki

16th July 2010, 04:54

^Unhide the seekbar and in fullscreen mode, if you put the cursor to the bottom of the screen, the seekbar will appear?

Hypernova

16th July 2010, 05:06

^Unhide the seekbar and in fullscreen mode, if you put the cursor to the bottom of the screen, the seekbar will appear?

Yes. I didn't hide or have any problem with the current seekbar though. Maybe I'm not clear on that part. I only hide the control bar i.e. playback, pause, etc. buttons.

namaiki

16th July 2010, 05:11

Oh I c.. I get that, but are you really wanting to make the seekbar green or blue?

Hypernova

16th July 2010, 05:42

Oh I c.. I get that, but are you really wanting to make the seekbar green or blue?

No. Not really. I just think that if the seekbar could be replace with Windows' progress bar (whatever the version that it's running on), then it will feel more "integrated" with the system.

nevcairiel

16th July 2010, 07:20

The problem is that MPC-HC uses the very old MFC components to render the UI, and MFC is not really skinnable.

For modern-looking UIs, you either render them yourself (which is A LOT of work), or you use the new UI toolkits that come with the .net environment. Changing the UI toolkit is basically a rewrite of the whole frontend part of the player, however, which is also alot of work, and has no developers to do it - also MPC-HC has other issues that don't allow this kind of change.

If one were really to write a new GUI, it would basically be a new project. Then once the GUI is done, you could merge all the playback components, renderers, filters and whatnot from the old project into the new.
But then, we already have other players that look "modern", and we can easily use the MPC-HC filters in them. I don't see the big requirement to rewrite it, imho.

PS:
imho, GreenEyez design is really ugly. Rather have the current WMP interface or the default XBMC skin.

PPS:
Also, if you like the default XBMC skin (or any XBMC skin), there is work going on to write a DirectShow based player backend for XBMC (the DSPlayer project). Its shaping up quite nicely so far, and once its rather stable, it can fill all your needs for a nice looking and capable playback GUI.

Octo-puss

16th July 2010, 12:26

p0w3rh0u5e

16th July 2010, 13:26

Well, i think the classic and clean design is one of mpc's major pro's, but it's understandable, when some users ask for a bit of modernization, it just looks aged here and there.

Replacing the seekbar, volumecontrol and the buttons with some more 2010 looking ones would'nt hurt. Actually i think even skin-support would'nt hurt anyone, if its done right.

While the gui still works good enough in windowed mode, it really does'nt does well in fullscreen mode, i think thats the only real drawback of mpc's current design. Even VLC with ts customizeable controlbar looks better here... ;-)

GreenEyez

16th July 2010, 18:17

It was a MOCK-UP ffs, or a scetch, done in 30 minute. Just a plan on were to put the new buttons and menu styles.

Here`s a evolved version, i did today. As for integration, this one should integrated better with windows 7 (depends on the win color theme) . The classic MPC look, as someone stated above, integrates with Win 95 at the moment.

Mock-up 2 removed, V3 added

Mercury_22

16th July 2010, 18:18

Just a thought: wouldn't be nice to leave everything as it is except make the controls bar autohide in windowed mode too and make it transparent, ( the background not the buttons aka controls ! WMP 12 "style")?

And, my dream, replace Favorites with (add) a Library ! Media Player Classic Home Cinema Center ! :)

P.S. I'm just asking ! is it difficult to apply the autohide function to the windowed mode too?

Inspector.Gadget

16th July 2010, 19:05

That latest sketch-up is still completely the wrong direction. It looks like someone tried to skin Winamp classic to look like WMP11. Bright colors, glossy everything, a million buttons just interfere with usability.

Keiyakusha

16th July 2010, 19:34

Here`s a evolved version, i did today
Colors indeed too contrasting, but IMO this is right direction. and buttons... we won't look at them all the time, but only in windowed mode or in fullscreen when interface appears. Current amount of buttons is just fine.

pankov

16th July 2010, 19:48

GTPVHD,
it's not fair to compare the playlist/albumlist view of WMP12 and the empty view of MPC.
It's an absolutely different story if you compare the view of WMP12 when it plays a movie.
I personally don't use WMP but I have to admit that I like it new look - with the transparent seekbar and controls ... well there is much to be desired but you have to admit it looks good, something I can't say about MPC's '98 look.

Keiyakusha

16th July 2010, 20:00

If we talking about list view... Personally i don't need it but I can see that people very often asks for more advanced playlist or even library.

Let's see my comparison:
MPC-HC (http://imgur.com/S3sLr.png) vs. WMP (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c0/Windows_Media_Player_12_on_Windows_7.png)

GreenEyez

16th July 2010, 20:00

I didn`t have the chance to fine tune the colors, especially the top menu ones are bright as hell. I`ll run it through PS and fix those. As for the buttons, they are exact the same number of buttons as MPC-HC currently has (top and down menu), and 3 more for subtitle/audio/chapter switching in the down menu. Actually, the pause button is missing.

Hypernova

16th July 2010, 20:41

For reference, here is what WMP12 looks like when playing video. Note that all the control can be autohide.
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/7971/wmp12.th.png (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/wmp12.png/)

@nevcairiel Thank you for the info. Looks like it's really hopeless.

Still, I think if someone are going to do it, I think replacing the button, seekbar, etc. with Windows' UI is the way to go. Any "unique" GUI will alienate at least half the MPC-HC users.

apathy

16th July 2010, 20:49

Just a thought: wouldn't be nice to leave everything as it is except make the controls bar autohide in windowed mode too and make it transparent, ( the background not the buttons aka controls ! WMP 12 "style")?

P.S. I'm just asking ! is it difficult to apply the autohide function to the windowed mode too?

If it's currently impossible to skin the ui, is this possible? This would be perfect! The autohide controls is one of the things I love about WMP12 because the player looks extremely clean while keeping the functionality.

16th July 2010, 22:28

Looking on iface proposals from previous page, 10x for
And no, G.U.I. doesn't stand for "Gay User Interface".

Mercury_22

16th July 2010, 22:50

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c0/Windows_Media_Player_12_on_Windows_7.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Media_Player_Classic_screenshot.png

Anyone actually uses WMP12? Cluttered, messy, buttons everywhere. Contrast that with MPC-HC, clean, uncluttered and logically designed(I know it's a Gabest MPC screenshot but MPC-HC looks the same).

@GTPVHD I was referring as pankov said to "the view of WMP12 when it plays a movie"
GTPVHD,
it's not fair to compare the playlist/albumlist view of WMP12 and the empty view of MPC.
It's an absolutely different story if you compare the view of WMP12 when it plays a movie.
I personally don't use WMP but I have to admit that I like it new look - with the transparent seekbar and controls ... well there is much to be desired but you have to admit it looks good, something I can't say about MPC's '98 look.
Which one looks more "Cluttered, messy, buttons everywhere" now?
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/102/capturedoa.png http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/6159/mpchc.png

I still think that to make the controls bar autohide in windowed mode too it will do much good without much trouble for MPC-HC's GUI

P.S. And maybe for "Caption&Menu" bar too (autohide)

GreenEyez

16th July 2010, 23:22

The auto-hide option is one of the things i also support in my GUI design, the top menu (play/open/navigation etc.) should pop up when you hover the mouse over it.

Anyway, i added a brushed titanium layer under the menu bar, it makes it look better and reduces the glossy effect, made the Play/Pause button WMP12 style. reduced the brighteness of the buttons to the ones used by WMP12 and Windows for better integration and redesigned the top menu ones. I`ll post it tomorrow since i still want to tweak some details.

Should i use the same seek bar as WMP ?

GreenEyez

16th July 2010, 23:26

WMP12 is cluttered and messy in its default view and in the "lite" view, having a menu bar where everything is logically accessible is more important. Try figuring out how to open a file in WMP12's "lite" view if you're not so tech savvy. Usability sacrificed for the sake of looking "modern", ugh.

It`s default view offers functionality for Libraries, Streaming/Play To other devices, some of us have entire movie collections / music collections and hundreds of photos so Libraries are a must.

And even so, my design and the request of other are to auto-hide the top menu, NOT to remove it. It should pop-up when you hover the mouse over that section. No functionality reduced, but better looking GUI, more cleaner.

Inspector.Gadget

17th July 2010, 00:00

dbone1026

17th July 2010, 00:09

The bottom line is that WMP12, GOMPlayer, KMPlayer, etc. are all ugly as sin and look like digital replicas of something you might have ripped out of an "audiophile"'s Kliptsch dashboard unit in the late 90s. Not an example to emulate. IMO, anybody that wants the bloated GUI design paradigm to reign over usability should look elsewhere. Here's to keeping MPC-HC simple and not cluttering it up with ZOMGEYECANDY.

The challenge is that everyone is going to have their own opinion of what looks good/bad. One thing I would say is that adding some features/design doesn't necessarily mean it is bloat. I think there can be a compromise between keeping the simple/clutter free approach while adding some more design features to enhance user interaction.

pankov

17th July 2010, 00:15

guys,
as I see it this conversation is meaningless at present. I doubt any developer will invest time in it in the next couple of months.
GreenEyez,
I like your passion and will to make a nice GUI but I doubt your work will see real usage in the near future.
Let's focus on the present tasks and problems so we can have a perfect playback and then improve ... or better say - rewrite ... the whole user interface.

roytam1

17th July 2010, 05:13

IMHO MPC-HC stands for "Media Player Classic - Homecinema" which should keep it in classical(MFC) feel and for those who wants something skinny should use splayer instead.

Astrophizz

17th July 2010, 07:01

Uh, I would avoid splayer :/ Besides a lack of user control with it, it also does wacky stuff to people's systems.

Betsy25

17th July 2010, 10:52

@GreenEyez

No hard feelings, but I'm sorry to say your proposed "GUI's" are utter garbage. Why not keep it readible like it is now ?

Why everyone want every application to be a colourbook when your have to wear 3+ glasses to be able to read buttons/text ???

GreenEyez

17th July 2010, 12:42

I`ve upped the text to 14-16 in the meantime, if you still can`t read it, then no offence, but you do need glasses. I can now read the text from 3 meters away (the image gets resized when posting, so the text is a little fuzzy due to the resizing though)

http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae148/GreenEyez2010/MPC-Mockup3.png

GreenEyez

17th July 2010, 13:09

roytam1 - Splayer is nice but i doesn`t hold a dime at MPC-HC. IMO, MPC-HC is the ultimate player (great PQ due to very good filters/decoders, supports for lots of renderers , good useful features) in my opinion, except for the GUI. Having visited AVS forum and other audio-video forums for some time, i`ve never heard of somebody actually liking the Win95 theme....

Mercury_22

17th July 2010, 13:24

I`ve upped the text to 14-16 in the meantime, if you still can`t read it, then no offence, but you do need glasses. I can now read the text from 3 meters away (the image gets resized when posting, so the text is a little fuzzy due to the resizing though)
Much better except the shape of the blue buttons (and maybe the color) also make the speaker button look more like a "speaker" (maybe add more circles inside?) But all in all what's the point since nobody (no dev) will change the GUI?

MPC-HTPC

17th July 2010, 14:21

IMHO I prefer MPC-HC's many options and functions over a nicer GUI, since the actual one absolutely serves it purpose!

However, I got a question about commit 2125 "Change : show filename in OSD at open, instead "Pause/Play";" - Why do not keep the pause/play in OSD? I understand that this could be of benefit, when having several files in the playlist. But when I just open a file out of Explorer or like XBMC/MediaPortal I only open one file after the other and would prefer to just see play/pause in OSD. Could this be toggled depending on the case (many files in playlist or just one)?

Neverthesless, thank you very much to all the developers for all the effort you put into MPC-HC and all the good work! :thanks:

GreenEyez

17th July 2010, 14:51

A nicer GUI doesn`t remove the options, the buttons and menus are still the same as they were in the Classic GUI (and no, i don`t want t replace the Classic GUI, just offer an alternative one) , at least in my view the right click menu and options should stay the same. Stripping down functions from MPC would be a blasfemy.

Anyway, i`ll do a 4th mock-up with redesigned buttons (i have some spare time tonight) and a different color for them (maybe a grey gradiant as the Classic GUI has now) + a new speaker icon (something like this (http://iconlibrary.iconshock.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/step015.jpg) ), as indicated by Mercury_22, and leave it as it is, when and if the developers decide to offer alternative skins, i`ll develop the design left here on the thread.

And speaking of the OSD, is it possible to add an option for displaying the progress of the movie (time passed/remaining) in the OSD when Play/Pause is pressed ? It does so when using ff/rw. Or at least to display the progress bar.

Lys

17th July 2010, 16:52

As long as a new GUI is not the default and hidden deeply in the options, it is fine with me. The reason I use MPC instead of WMP or VLC is because of its current UI, and I don't want that to disappear.

leeperry

17th July 2010, 22:00

one thing's for sure, the yellow speaker MUST go hah

Kado

17th July 2010, 22:19

IMHO MPC-HC stands for "Media Player Classic - Homecinema" which should keep it in classical(MFC) feel and for those who wants something skinny should use splayer instead.

I agree with this one because I like the classic and clean feeling MPC-HC has, I use MPC-HC with "D3D Fullscreen" all the time and I only use the buttons skin with a custom logo.
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3384/mpchckado.png (http://img707.imageshack.us/i/mpchckado.png/)
Something that would be nice is to add buttons to the D3D fullscreen GUI like stop, next and previous but that's not a priority. Otherwise the player is just fine although some people would like something extra or different.
I think that Visual C++ 2008 feature pack gave additional customization to the MFC. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Foundation_Class_Library)

Hypernova

18th July 2010, 01:53

I thought no one would oppose the idea of keeping everything the same except change the controls to what Windows' standard UI offer. I'm totally wrong. Some of you really like the "classic". Well, there are a lot of people still prefer classic (9x-ME) UI after all.

Looking at it again, I think there are only three parts that really standout: the volume slider, the yellow speaker, and the seekbar. If those two sliders get replace with the stock Windows UI then I would call it done on "modernized" MPC-HC. I don't like any UI(s) presents in any player either, except WMP12 when it's playing video (the one I posted).

I think I read somewhere that you can already change the icons for those buttons. Anyone can point me to a nice looking set?
@Kado : Can you tell me how you get rid of the yellow speaker?

Astrophizz

18th July 2010, 03:26

I think I read somewhere that you can already change the icons for those buttons. Anyone can point me to a nice looking set?
@Kado : Can you tell me how you get rid of the yellow speaker?

here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=153123

and here for what Kado uses (I believe): http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1379298#post1379298

Hypernova

18th July 2010, 06:02

here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=153123

and here for what Kado uses (I believe): http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1379298#post1379298

Thank you! I should have :search: :o

GreenEyez

18th July 2010, 11:27

Thanks Astrophizz , the ones done by Phaser look really nice.

Anyway, i`ve finished the 4th mock-up, with redesigned buttons to look like the WMP12 ones + a new speaker icon.

http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae148/GreenEyez2010/Mockup4.png

GreenEyez

18th July 2010, 12:10

And here`s the buttons for skinning the toolbar, 32 size : http://www.mediafire.com/?iha1dfffy7ymnsj

Brazil2

18th July 2010, 15:25

Who gives a damn about GUI? I thought the oldschool minimalistic looks are intended.
I would much rather see the devs spending time and energy on understanding the code and fixing stuff, than adding new features or even reworking the GUI.
IMHO MPC-HC stands for "Media Player Classic - Homecinema" which should keep it in classical(MFC) feel and for those who wants something skinny should use [another player] instead.
Exactly my thoughts.

And guess what, when I'm watching a video I'm looking at... the video! And not at the skin of the player, thinking things like "Wow my buttons look soooooo nice". Incredible isn't it ?

Not to mention that most of the time I'm watching videos fullscreen and I do NOT want to see any little part of a skin.

But seeing that this thread is three pages long already, I guess many people may think that's it's more important for an utility to look good rather than to have full working features.

leeperry

18th July 2010, 15:30

I guess many people may think that's it's more important for an utility to look good rather than to have full working features.
since when can't a player do both? the main problem is that we're not in 1995 anymore, and yes the horrid GUI is unbearable to many ppl...which shouldn't matter as MPC is free anyway.

leeperry

18th July 2010, 16:43

The MPC-HC GUI is not horrid, only people that find it unbearable are the typical form over functionality people, who needs useless bloatware features like skins, gloss, transparency everywhere to distract them from the main purpose of watching videos.

If you need all those useless features, why not move now to WMP12/whatever player you can name? Everything is implemented there already, no need to wait.I don't need gloss or transparency, I just want a GUI that doesn't look like I'm on Windows 95 15 years ago(when I still had hair on top of my head).

I personally love the TMT3 skin, slick and efficient! it's available for many third party players now: http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/11/term4.jpg

Do you honestly find this GUI less attractive than WMP6.4? times are changing my friend.

GreenEyez

18th July 2010, 17:02

leeperry

18th July 2010, 17:05

everyone has seen how you trolled the ffdshow-tryouts thread [..] if you turned off Aero, guess what? It looks like Windows Classic.
I run XPSP3, you'll have to explain me how to enable Aero http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/autobot.gif ...anyway, take care buddy, WMP6.4 is teh best of course http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/3/tristou.gif

Keiyakusha

18th July 2010, 17:06

you're willing to use KMPlayer/Potplayer which is well known to steal code from MPC and violate the GPL license of FFmpeg
I'm also willing to use them and I actually using them sometimes. Steal code? This is not problems of the simple user. For me there is no problems as long as player free, frequently updated and has a nice dev, who doesn't mind to spend some time for implementing feature requests.

Another thing, if you turned off Aero, guess what? It looks like Windows Classic.
No, it won't look like that by only turning aero off. You should try by yourself before posting some random googled screenshots.

EDIT:
Gabest copied GUI of the Windows Media Player. But this was years ago. If there is no interest in some GUI, it should be possible at least copy WMP look again. It doean't need to be exact with the same bugs/features.

leeperry

18th July 2010, 17:10

Yup, but the TMT3 interface has 2 flaws, the volume slider is hidden, and the background has 25 logos on it. Other than that, i agree, the GUI simple and practical with a nice modern design.

The best thing would be a theme repository, just like Media Browser and XMBC have, and themes should be aproved by the dev or developers.
I've modified it in PotPlayer: http://thumbnails32.imagebam.com/8912/64708b89115559.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/64708b89115559)

nothing's hidden as far as I can tell, and I've ditched all the background logos of course ;)

but most of the doom9 MPC-HC users like the yellow speaker and the WMP6.4 GUI...I think you're wasting your time, "there's no school like the old school" as they say :p

tetsuo55

18th July 2010, 17:37

Short responce from the dev team.

Splayer is based on mpc-hc, the patches change some of the behaviour but its the same thing on many levels.

XBMC as mentioned before, has a dsplayer implementation which is basically a refactor of mpc-hc for exclusive use in xbmc.
xbmc has a beautifull interface so the gui problem is solved there.

Skinning to some extent is possible, all the buttons can be replaced, see the wiki https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/Toolbar_images

The current gui is not perfect, since it copies media player 6.4 it also copies some of its design faults.
i do think that we need to update the gui in some small area's, but if/when we do so the changes have to be based on scientifically correct research. Gnome 3.0 interface guide is mostly research based and we are waiting for its release to start looking at its advice.

The changes that might occur are minor, like moving things areound a few pixels, nothing huge.

We are open to a more modern looking gui, but only if its scientifically simple and usefull and improves performance (or is at least on par)

Keep in mind that mpc-hc is intended as a quick lightweight player, all the "playlist-esque" features are not the main goal.

Keiyakusha

18th July 2010, 17:41

But I guess the form over functionality people can't accept the fact the WMP6.4 GUI is far superior to your bloatware, clumsy alternatives.

And everyone else can't understand that there no one talking about complete GUI replacement and there should be possibility to get current look.
Some dev can step in to make a GUI. Features/bugfixes? Of course this is wanted too but with current developing policy you anyway can't really expect much. So you not loosing anything.

leeperry

18th July 2010, 17:49

"form over functionality"...haha, since when do you have to choose between both? anyway, I think the OP is hoping for something that will never happen. Just pretend we're still in 1995 and you'll be just fine :)
Skinning to some extent is possible, all the buttons can be replaced, see the wiki https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/Toolbar_images
the seek locator could really use a brushup IMHO.

GreenEyez

18th July 2010, 17:57

It would be different if we didn’t have to rely on Cyberlink, or if there were open source True HD/DTS-HD MA alternatives so we had playback support in things like Media Player Classic - Home Cinema or XBMC.

Guys, he can`t read his own posts (XBMC looks like this (http://xbmc.org/wp-content/gallery/confluence/screenshot004.jpg) , not like WMP 6.4, and has a lot of skins) and Anandtech was talking about Cyberlink PowerDVD not TMT3 , let alone read the posts of other people...

Anyway, tetsuo55 , thanks for the official response, it`s good to know that you are open to alternative GUIs somewhere in the future. Thanks again, and i think that the mods can close this topic.

Keiyakusha

18th July 2010, 18:13

XBMC as mentioned before, has a dsplayer implementation which is basically a refactor of mpc-hc for exclusive use in xbmc.
xbmc has a beautifull interface so the gui problem is solved there

By the way this was few times mentioned before but maybe I don't understand something... If it is for exclusive XBMC use, it means can't be used as standalone app, right? So how this solves anything? Or there is somewhere separate variant? Will be very grateful for some link.

tetsuo55

18th July 2010, 18:49

the seek locator could really use a brushup IMHO.afaik mfc doesnt allow us to modify it
By the way this was few times mentioned before but maybe I don't understand something... If it is for exclusive XBMC use, it means can't be used as standalone app, right? So how this solves anything? Or there is somewhere separate variant? Will be very grateful for some link.Its actually part of the xbmc core, we do try to sync where possible though. dsplayer doesnt have a gui though since xbmc provides that functionality.

We're trying to refactor mpc-hc in such a way that the player core is seperated from the gui, such an effort would effect in an identical core in both xbmc and mpc-hc, but so far all roads where dead ends.

Matching_Mole

18th July 2010, 19:19

tetsuo55 : do you have somewhere a kind of road-map or the current list of goals of MPC-HC team (and not only about the GUI)?

Brazil2

18th July 2010, 20:11

We are open to a more modern looking gui, but only if its scientifically simple and usefull and improves performance (or is at least on par)

Keep in mind that mpc-hc is intended as a quick lightweight player, all the "playlist-esque" features are not the main goal.
Well said, I couldn't agree more :)

Guest

18th July 2010, 21:40

Ad hominems were removed. If you cannot post civilly and without attacking other persons, then do not post, or risk a strike. Expressing an opinion does not make one a troll or an idiot. Thank you.

DrNein

19th July 2010, 12:30

I was not aware that DSPlayer is based upon MPC-HC. That is interesting since I only use that version of XBMC to launch MPC-HC as an external player -which, by the way, is a seemless transition visually and remote control wise. The only minor drawback is losing the function of resuming from previous playback position.

XBMC is a good browser (although with high CPU usage), but MPC-HC remains the best player for my usage because it is powerful/flexible but simple.

I have no desire for a glitzy GUI. Indeed, I prefer the Windows Classic theme over Aero.

stax76

19th July 2010, 13:21

DSPlayer is a poor player NOT derived from MPC, SPlayer is derived from MPC but it lacks control over the filter graph so not very useful. With all GUI being OSD like WMP it looks good though. My StaxPlayer uses the same approach, OSD being transparent WPF windows on top of the main window so it's independent from the renderers, too bad StaxRip don't leave much time to work on it so I'm looking for programmers with VB.NET and WPF experience to join development.

http://h.imagehost.org/0430/Unbenannt.png (http://h.imagehost.org/view/0430/Unbenannt)

GrofLuigi

19th July 2010, 15:53

I would like to explain my aversion to skins.

Around the time Windows XP and its Themes service appeared, there were some (very slightly) older apps that didn't understand themes and/or were written without manifests and what not. In these apps, you could actually detach the theme from the app window if the app got stuck or responded slowly. Also, in XP, if you kill the themes service* you lose the skin, so it's very clear which one is native, and which one is added on top. I'm dead sure the situation is the same with Vista, and from what I"ve seen on 7, there too.

I'm firm believer in the KISS principle and nobody can convince me that, the more code executed is better than less code. Ever. It's not about the memory usage or anything similar, it's common sense (at least I'd like to believe that :)).

Regarding non-native skins, my opinion is similar. Additionaly, since this is such a huge but under(man)powered project, there is a significant risk that introducing a whole new layer of code will add many problems we (I) don't need - the risk is far greater than the reward, at least for me. Even if implemented as optional (another dll, for example) - who knows wheter its entry points will be "clean" enough all the time?

* very recently (XP SP3 + 170 subsequent updates, clean install) I got puzzled by very weird crashes. Somehow the Themes service would lose "trust" (permissions) and commit suicide (crash) out of the blue, taking away many of its siblings (it's paired with Shell Services (autoplay), but others would also crash). After very extensive debugging (believe me, VERY extensive), nothing could restore its will to live. Format C: was the only way to go. I had no virus or antivirus and no hardware problem.

GL

Sharktooth

19th July 2010, 15:58

@GrofLuigi: Welcome to Windows. You should try Linux instead... ;)

khagaroth

19th July 2010, 17:41

It would be probably worth to try to add a call to InitCommonControlsEx as it could make the program use newer versions of the common controls (volume and navigation slider) on the main dialog. Microsoft warns about using theme manifest without declaring it anyway (and I have seen programs break because of it after using one resource editing program to add manifest - the program warned about the lack of comctl32 initialization - not every program broke because of it, but there were plenty), so it wouldn't hurt to add it even if it doesn't do anything.

oddball

19th July 2010, 21:56

I used to be a big fan of KMPlayer up until I got an HDTV. For use with an HDTV there is no contest for me. MPC-HC all the way. The only thing I would change is not so much it's GUI but it's handling of subtitles. I wish it used the same subtitle rendering engine as KMPlayer. But I am guessing it would not work in DXVA mode? Anyhow a bit off topic. I think it's GUI should just be a very simple skinning system then you can have a whatever look you want. But I would much rather devs concentrated on bug fixes and feature requests :)

Keiyakusha

19th July 2010, 23:12

oddball
Sorry for continuing this little offtopic but what's wrong with MPC-HC rendering engine? All I know is it can be much faster (theoretically). So KMPlayer faster, this is what you mean? Because other than speed, MPC-HC's renderer has most complete formats/features support. Maybe different renderers producing somewhat different looking output, but if so - they are wrong and should be fixed. If there is something other -something that can be implemented, I believe you can express your wishes in the main thread, maybe they will be heard by someone.

Well, returning to the GUI. If there will be enough motivation to make a GUI, or even some new dev will step in, I don't think this will affect current amount of bugfixes. And you also shouldn't worry about new bugs that can be introduced, because for that new branch can be created and merged only when it will be stable enough.

Octo-puss

20th July 2010, 08:27

I am totally against any changes in the GUI. What is it lacking? It has very cool olsdchool looks, and does everything that is needed. It works great even in fullscreen.
If you want eye candy and crap, use WMP18 with cool little animated stars in every menu.

GreenEyez

20th July 2010, 12:07

- One-click access to subtitles/audio tracks/chapters , the things people use the most besides the media control buttons. Chapter skipping is a button smashing contest atm.
- Options that are not double featured. A lot of options can be found in both the right-click menu and the top bar menu (the file menu for ex, featured both in the right click menu and the top bar). Why? Kinda blows away the KISS theory..
- Unified Play/Pause button. You don`t need separate Play/Pause buttons.
- Windows 7 Libraries support
- A design that actually goes with something more modern than the 13inch CRT and Pentium 3 i have colleting dust in the attic. Sorry, some of us moved from those thing years ago

Keiyakusha

20th July 2010, 13:26

Octo-puss
Come on, no one is going to take away your oldschool GUI! It was said that it should be possible to retain old look.
The GUI is needed without a questions. And because of that you can't say you against it. In the same way someone else can be against various new features because he is not going to use them but others will. The question is how it should be implemented and who will do this.

tetsuo55

20th July 2010, 15:45

tetsuo55 : do you have somewhere a kind of road-map or the current list of goals of MPC-HC team (and not only about the GUI)?http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/To-Do and
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/requirements , the 2nd page is a very crude wip aimed at developersIt would be probably worth to try to add a call to InitCommonControlsEx as it could make the program use newer versions of the common controls (volume and navigation slider) on the main dialog. Microsoft warns about using theme manifest without declaring it anyway (and I have seen programs break because of it after using one resource editing program to add manifest - the program warned about the lack of comctl32 initialization - not every program broke because of it, but there were plenty), so it wouldn't hurt to add it even if it doesn't do anything.i will pass this piece of info on to the developers.
DSPlayer is a poor player NOT derived from MPC Dsplayer is "new code" but the programmers used mpc-hc sourcecode and msdn documents as a base. some parts are very similar others are miles apart.

- One-click access to subtitles/audio tracks/chapters , the things people use the most besides the media control buttons. Chapter skipping is a button smashing contest atm. We agree this could be better, but we cannot easily change the menu layouts without changing the translation system first.
- Options that are not double featured. A lot of options can be found in both the right-click menu and the top bar menu (the file menu for ex, featured both in the right click menu and the top bar). Why? Kinda blows away the KISS theory..same problem as above, but additionally in some views only the rightclick menu is available. I believe a lot of the duplication needs to go, but we consider the menu bar and options the on device buttons, and the rightclick menu the quick access remote control.

- Unified Play/Pause button. You don`t need separate Play/Pause buttons. I agree, we currently use them mutually exclusively, but its difficult to program a single button in a logical way, a different solution would be to change the meaning of play and pause similarly to what foobar2000 does.

- Windows 7 Libraries support i dont know what you mean with that
- A design that actually goes with something more modern than the 13inch CRT and Pentium 3 i have colleting dust in the attic. Sorry, some of us moved from those thing years ago like i said, the gui can be changed by anyone willing and able, on the premise that it improves performance and/or code maintainability with the same speed as the current gui. this ofcouse proven through the scientific method.

On the subtitle renderer:
There is a project to create a new subtitle renderer, this renderer will be much faster and platform independent.
that said we will accept any improvement patches to the current renderer.

Kado

20th July 2010, 20:25

- Unified Play/Pause button. You don`t need separate Play/Pause buttons.

Well Winamp has them separate but if you press play during playback it will reopen the file like the MPC-HC hotkey "CTRL+E" added in revision 1986 (http://mpc-hc.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mpc-hc?view=revision&revision=1986).
Either the keys are merged, behave like Winamp or stay the same classic way!

P.S.=> Remember to remove "Classic" from the player's name if you "modernize" the GUI because it will not be classic anymore.
MP-HC - "Media Player - Home Cinema"

Atak_Snajpera

20th July 2010, 20:58

GreenEyez

20th July 2010, 22:54

What part of MOCK-UP or Sketch don`t you understand? You think i`m actually going to spend time designing each little button/bar to perfection for something that may or may be approved. When the developers will start offering full skinning support in the (distant) future, then i`ll do the "serious" work based on these sketches.

GreenEyez

20th July 2010, 23:00

http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/To-Do and
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/requirements

Thanks, very useful. Now, from what i have seen in that roadmap, are you guys planning to ditch the internal MPC-HC filters for ffdshow ?

leeperry

20th July 2010, 23:02

When the developers will start to offering full skinning support in the future, then i`ll do the "serious" work based on these sketches.
There's hardly any active MPC coder, and there's a truckload of critical bugs to be fixed...you can skin the buttons, this is as good as it's gonna get I'm afraid. If you care about skinning(like many ppl do), why not using another player? Many of them support great skinning, there's even some official MPC branches I think? Splayer or something like that.

It's called Media Player Classic, and the doom9 ppl seem to like the yellow speaker...nothing fancy's going to happen, and the naysayers in this thread fail to see the gap between bloat and basic. I personally hate bloated GUI's, I just like simple slick ones...but this debate has happened before, and it's always ended up in a trolling feast.

GreenEyez

20th July 2010, 23:06

i don`t know what you mean with that

I mean integration with Windows Libraries. A one button solution that takes you to your Movie/Video library in Win7. Something like the Favorites feature currently implemented in MPC.

like i said, the gui can be changed by anyone willing and able, on the premise that it improves performance and/or code maintainability with the same speed as the current gui. this ofcouse proven through the scientific method.

And i presume there are no plans for moving to WPF ? Because the latter would make changing the UI a lot easier
Also, by scientific method, you mean testing the old GUI vs the new one for response times ?

GreenEyez

20th July 2010, 23:22

There's hardly any active MPC coder, and there's a truckload of critical bugs to be fixed...you can skin the buttons, this is as good as it's gonna get I'm afraid. If you care about skinning(like many ppl do), why not using another player? Many of them support great skinning, there's even some official MPC branches I think? Splayer or something like that.

It's called Media Player Classic, and the doom9 ppl seem to like the yellow speaker...nothing fancy's going to happen, and the naysayers in this thread fail to see the gap between bloat and basic. I personally hate bloated GUI's, I just like simple slick ones...but this debate has happened before, and it's always ended up in a trolling feast.

unfortunately, you`re right. That`s why i stopped developing on the theme sketches. The problem is that MPC-HC has been my nr1 choice of media player for both my computers and my HTPC, and my software guide for Win 7 Media Center. Many players don`t support automatic 24p switching for ex., or have support from plugins like Media Browser. And will still remain my fav player, even without themeing. I just feels like a BMW M5 trapped in a 1980 Ford body

Anyway, tetsuo55 has had very good answers to my questions, and that`s what i was expecting from the thread.

apathy

21st July 2010, 02:39

I'm actually fine with MPC's current GUI. I'm just wondering if it's possible to have the status, seek bar, and controls auto-hide like they would in full screen mode implemented? That way it would behave like wmp12 and would be more minimal. We don't need to see the controls, etc at all times. I'm well aware of the different modes activated by hitting 1-3 but it's not the same. I was also wondering if it was possible to implement the option to only hide the menu and not menu and caption?

GreenEyez

21st July 2010, 05:46

And another good thing would be enabling the seekbar and maybe the controls to appear on remote control command. Atm, it only works when using a mouse. If you press play via a remote, the control/seek bars don`t pop-up.

tetsuo55

21st July 2010, 07:14

Thanks, very useful. Now, from what i have seen in that roadmap, are you guys planning to ditch the internal MPC-HC filters for ffdshow ?we're going to keep internal filters, the idea is just to optimise them so we dont have a bunch of different projects doing the exact same work.
I mean integration with Windows Libraries. A one button solution that takes you to your Movie/Video library in Win7. Something like the Favorites feature currently implemented in MPC.sounds doable, i suggest opening a ticket for that

And i presume there are no plans for moving to WPF ? Because the latter would make changing the UI a lot easier
Also, by scientific method, you mean testing the old GUI vs the new one for response times ?no plans to do that no, unscientific evidence points out that its considerably slower.
As the wiki page points out, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method , a double blind test will have to prove things like memory usage, security, speed and maintainability are at least on par with mfc.

turbojet

21st July 2010, 09:12

A few things I'd like to see eventually that improves functionality:

1. Change the time display so it can always be read more easily (basically unreadable on TV) . Some ways to do this I thought of:
a) move time display to control bar, increase font
b) increase statusbar height, font
c) rollover shows OSD time display
d) rollover magnifier

2. Time on seekbar rollover like most flash players. Extending it to image preview like hulu's player would be nice too.

3. Dots on seekbar to signify chapter marks like hulu's player does with ad spots.

stax76

21st July 2010, 09:33

A .NET WPF player takes about 500ms more to load so for instance is available after a second instead of a half second. It takes more memory but but less disk space. You can try my private player StaxPlayer if you have doubts in efficiency. The main dialog uses WinForms because of WinAPI interoperability, dialogs use WinForms which does standard controls well and the OSD uses WPF which does fancy design well. The WPF OSD is done with separate windows that sit on top of the main/video window so it's independent from renderers. DirectShow is a COM API so it can be easily used from different languages. Technically a WPF OSD for MPC would be no problem, some just would need to expose a COM SDK like DVBViewer or MediaMonkey. That's one way, GDI and DirectX would be another, even WebKit might be a option, Google builds a HTPC interface with that, it's called Google TV not released yet.

http://www.filedropper.com/staxplayer

Atak_Snajpera

21st July 2010, 14:10

What part of MOCK-UP or Sketch don`t you understand?
I'm judging overall design. Colors , shapes and so on. Looks very cheap and unprofessional. That's all.
I'm also against any changes in GUI. I love MPC's simplicity.

Guest

21st July 2010, 15:15

Very amateurish work. You are wasting your time. Agreed, IMHO. Also, the button shadowing is physically unreal, i.e., could not occur in real life with real light.

patul

22nd July 2010, 03:31

I'm also against any changes in GUI. I love MPC's simplicity.

I second that. There's no need to add bloating codes just to add skinning support. I'm too against any changes in GUI. Leave the GUI as of now.

73ChargerFan

22nd July 2010, 23:39

I'd like to see the seek-bar & current/total time pop-up when I hit PAUSE on the remote, then auto- disappear a few seconds later.

I am not a fan of the current UI. The buttons are too small on my 58" screen, top menus can't be seen and don't appear/disappear, the D3D full-screen seek-bar looks old-fashioned even for 1982, and the right-click menu is way too complicated.

niksus

23rd July 2010, 00:35

Keeping the ancient GUI just drives away new users. I don't like it either nor I care for the small footprint - it's the 21st Century after all, with its modern computers and modern OS's.
And while targeting geeks and resource zealots only, the user base is getting smaller, affecting the popularity - thus no "fresh" developers either.

Ronin-7

23rd July 2010, 10:02

I agree with the others, nothing wrong with MPC-HC GUI leave it alone, VLC has a similar GUI and that certainly hasn't affected its popularity. There are plenty of other players out there for those that dislike the way MPC-HC looks or operates.

The only thing that might be worth doing is a lick of paint like VLC recently did for it's GUI no major redesign just fresh icons/graphics for the controls.

Octo-puss

23rd July 2010, 11:25

Atak_Snajpera

23rd July 2010, 11:48

Exactly! We don't need another Winamp.

Selur

23rd July 2010, 12:13

btw. does any one know if there's hope that MPC-HC will get the frame back when caption is disabled?
Wwas changed in Changeset 1622 and there's also a request to reverse it or at least add it as an option, see: http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/ticket/263
Since the ticket is 6month+ old, I'm thinking about ditching mpc-hc more and more.
I really like MPC-HC, but really don't like frameless windows so I can't use a current mpc-hc version atm. :(

iron2000

23rd July 2010, 14:24

cweb

26th July 2010, 08:24

laxu

27th July 2010, 12:47

MPC could really use a better GUI. As far as functionality, it's fine. The issue is that it looks like a Win95 program. It wouldn't be all that hard to make it it look like a native Win7 software.

For usability's sake, play and pause could be combined into one button and I'm not sure if the next/previous/increase speed/decrease speed/step buttons are necessary at all since most probably just open a single video file from a file browser.

I like what Mirillis are doing with their Splash player. It looks great and has some very cool feature like the preview images for jumping on the timeline. Something like that would be welcome in MPC as well. Maybe it's time to drop that C and just call it MPHC.

stax76

27th July 2010, 13:00

Maybe it's time to drop that C and just call it MPHC.

C could also stand for Contemporary, a solution would be offering a Classic and a Contemporary theme and on the first start the user would be asked which theme to use. There are already some alternative buttons, now only the sliders and background color need work, might be doable within a day, there is some code for a custom drawing MFC slider at codeproject.

grizzly666

31st July 2010, 01:34

The current gui is not perfect, since it copies media player 6.4 it also copies some of its design faults.
i do think that we need to update the gui in some small area's,

The changes that might occur are minor, like moving things areound a few pixels, nothing huge.

We are open to a more modern looking gui, but only if its scientifically simple and usefull and improves performance (or is at least on par)

Keep in mind that mpc-hc is intended as a quick lightweight player, all the "playlist-esque" features are not the main goal.

I agree with tetsuo55 that it is only a few minor tweeks that is needed for the gui.

The biggest i see is the seekbar autohide,popup when a remote is used (play,pause,skip,ff,etc).

And also there is a part missing since the "homecinema" name was added.
I remember that when i did read about the mpchc i thought yes finally a good player with a simple browser or any other simple way of starting a file with a remote.

But ever since then i have been dissapointed since there should atleast be a simple,nice way to start files with a remote.

That is what i associate "homecinema" with (optimized for remote).

What i would like is some kind of simple file browser like the one in zoomplayer where you could browse all your hds and find the file you want to play (not like in xbmc,wmc,etc,etc) only a simple text file browser.
One wish is that you should be able to delete file,files using the file browser but that is not a requirement only a wish to be included.
When deleted if it is to the Recycle Bin or not dosen't matter at all to me, but i can see that many wants it in the Recycle Bin.

How to display the file browser like in zoomplayer or by osd dosen't matter much as long as you can see what your doing and that starting files and optionally also delete them.
It could be in black and white if it atleast get added.

What is in zoomplayer is perfect for me since i do not save 90-95% of the files i watch i do not see the need to create any playlist for them.
Only browse to the file play it (mayby a couple) then delete the file,files using the file browser with the remote.

I do now that gomplayer,kmplayer,pot and one more i can't find remember the name of have file browser in them.
I don't get any of them to play as good as zoomplayer does and mpc does play even better then zoomplayer.

So is there any other players with a file browser in them i could play with a while?

Or is there any skin,mods to xbmc,windows media center or any of all the other programs that do give me a simple file browser?
And not all the flashy useless crap that they do have from the start
I don't care about all the posters,info and have to rename or add a nfo to many,many files to get the scanners to find the right poster,info so the RIGTH movie,series show up in the gui:devil::mad: and then after i have watched it delete that file.

Its only seems like much work and no gain at all to me.

DrNein

12th August 2010, 12:22

XBMC can have all the scraper stuff disabled and be set to start at the Video menu (optionally blank background) so it is a relatively simple browser. The main downside is that CPU utilization of the GUI is very high -higher than when the GPU is actually decoding BD video. Anyway, the DSPlayer build can be configured to launch MPC-HC and with some minor changes to "Keys", remote control is seemless between the two (using MCE IR receiver).

Hypernova

12th August 2010, 21:59

@grizzly666 Just curious, why don't you just use "open file" dialog for that? It's essentially a windows explorer. Maybe the font is not big enough?

iron2000

19th August 2010, 17:28

Someone at Neowin posted a seekbar and volume bar modded version:
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/931044-mpc-hc-seekbar-volumebar-hack/

sidi0us

19th August 2010, 17:43

He also posted in another thread the tutorial for the volume bar (which is easy to do).

Using a hex editor locate hex 05BF20 at offset D7342 and change to 05BF10 (I used notepad++ with hex addon and searched with ctrl-f "05BF20" and changed to "05BF10" then saved).

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/sidi0us/volume.jpg

The only problem that remains is the seekbar slider...

bobdynlan

3rd September 2010, 19:07

Resource hacking an open-source program like MPC-HC, that sounds like fun :) Well, I took a different path. Learned some stuff in the process - it's not that easy for a newcomer. So here is an image preview of my work:
http://drop.io/download/public/aibakehym4xdgudx2ggl/0659d8b4456efaa141e952d562d87893daaa432b/Asset/44243482/v3/large_thumbnail (http://drop.io/bobdynlan/asset/hc-bars-png)
Features:
- dark background, the thing I needed the most
- new volume control, interacts with mute on/off
- new progress control, active/inactive visual aid
- new toolbar buttons

It's a work in progress, but I like the current visual feel, so I will not change it too much in the future.
I will start working on the playlist and the menu also, to see how they blend in, and then provide also a binary for you to try it out.
Right now, the buttons, volume control and progress control are following the Control Panel 3D-objects colours, but I'm thinking on adding customizable colour - as the simplest "skin engine" if possible.
http://drop.io/download/public/aibakehym4xdgudx2ggl/c835430b83153f96371ed7899f1b263932ff645b/Asset/44248551/v3/large_thumbnail (http://drop.io/bobdynlan/asset/hc-bars2-png)

All work was done with custom draw - GDI stuff.

tetsuo55

3rd September 2010, 23:40

thats just amazing......

So you didnt resource hack that? its a real code patch?

leeperry

3rd September 2010, 23:57

It's a work in progress, but I like the current visual feel, so I will not change it
it doesn't look like windows 95 anymore, the "Classic" team will whip you for that :p

together w/ the hack to get a real volume slider and a nicer looking seeking locator, MPC might actually start to look posh...well done!

Keiyakusha

4th September 2010, 22:32

Wow it would be nice to see actual binary! Looks good!

p.s.
hey, I can see volume slider now!

p.p.s.
I don't think this is hacking. looks too great to be it. But even if so - it should be possible to transform changes into patch :Р

5th September 2010, 00:52

So here is an image preview of my work
Looking good :)

burfadel

5th September 2010, 00:53

The dark background does look ok, but the buttons are too small and don't suit it. I think the 'blue crystal' theme from earlier in this thread looks good, the buttons are of reasonable size. The modifications to that I would suggest is to have the dark background feel, and to have the play button green, stop button as red, pause as orange, and the step/speed buttons as something else anyway...

The progress bar in the dark theme looks good, does the end bit light up when the mouse cursor is over it? It makes things easier when doing things quickly :) The volume button from the 'blue crystal' theme is good, and good in the current colour, although the volume level should be changed to that showed in the dark background theme.

btw, the other day I had to convince someone it was a good player, as they thought it was really old (and all old things are apparently crappy!). I then gave her the exact same version but with the two files for the blue crystal themes, and apparently the player was much better. The picture and sound quality was also better :)

Psychology plays a big part in what people think of things, the old interface of MPC-HC just makes people think its old.

khagaroth

5th September 2010, 08:26

Steveo08

5th September 2010, 08:37

i really asking me for what a new gui, because i always start my movies in fullscreen mode.

Superb

5th September 2010, 09:07

@bobdynlan: the first one (http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/3462/hcbars.png) looks great!

jeremy33

5th September 2010, 09:52

Yes the first one is very good !

burfadel

5th September 2010, 09:55

The blue crystal buttons wouldn't suit this at all, and they are ugly on their own anyways. And colorful play/pause/stop buttons? Yuck. It's perfect as it is. It doesn't look like something from the dark ages, but it's still simple and clean.

I hope you were referring to the dark background one, as the interface for MPC-HC really is from the dark ages at the moment! It truly looks like something from early Windows 95 days, or even Windows 3.1. The truth is, it is! and in terms of computing that is the dark ages! The original MPC (and current look) was an aesthetical copy of the original Windows Media Player that shipped with Windows 95. Windows 95! So the interface design in MPC-HC is at least 15 years old... (not saying MPC is that old, the design, since it was a direct copy of the original WMP design).

On looking back at the options, now the blue crystal changes do sound a little bright. I wouldn't say yuck though, I do like it at the moment because they're decent size buttons and modern. I hate small buttons, I'm sure people hated that about winamp :) The actual button icons themselves shoudl be about the diameter of the standard mouse pointer IMO, and spaced nicely. it makes for easy clicking, and easy to see what you're doing. A gui is not about just about looking nice, its about ease of use too.

The dark one with bigger buttons would be nice.

Keiyakusha

5th September 2010, 10:22

i really asking me for what a new gui, because i always start my movies in fullscreen mode.
Answer: for those who don't start movies in fullscreen mode. And gui is used in fuliscreen too, you know...

Steveo08

5th September 2010, 11:49

Answer: for those who don't start movies in fullscreen mode. And gui is used in fuliscreen too, you know...

well, i would say not really, just a little......

Roobaj

5th September 2010, 15:01

Is there a skin support in MPC-HC? instead of changing the GUI I thought maybe adding support for skins would be better.

Anyway, my perfect GUI is WMP12 now playing mode, clean and simple.

xdes

5th September 2010, 15:20

Resource hacking an open-source program like MPC-HC, that sounds like fun :)

You cant resource hack the mpc to look like this. at least i dont know how. (and i am quite familiar with reshacking because i reshacked my whole windows and a lots of programs i use.) or if i am completely mistaken, how did you do it?

btw i was the one who hacked the volume bar and the seek slider. my topic on neowin:
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/931044-mpc-hc-seekbar-volumebar-hack/

i even was able to do something like this:
http://noob.hu/2010/08/24/untitled2.PNG
(yes, that line is moving with elapsed time.)

anyway, here are some help you may need.

the status bar is the dialog 10021.
the seek bar is the dialog 10022.
and if i am not mistaken the dialog 10020 is the controls bar.

however you cant do much with these with reshacker except than resizing it. :( it is complicated than that unfortunately. it requires hexediting to alter these parts. or you need to modify the source code and recompiling the whole program.

btw here is my reshacked and hexedited mpc:
http://noob.hu/2010/08/19/mpc-hc.png

khagaroth

5th September 2010, 15:34

I hope you were referring to the dark background one...

I wouldn't say yuck though...
Yes I was referring to the dark one of course.

And the "yuck" referred to that stupid proposal to make the play button green, pause orange and stop red.

Yes, the dark design with a bit bigger buttons (I would say 24px is optimal) and possibly with customizable highlight color (but no stupid tricolor please, one color for all) would be nice.

Keiyakusha

5th September 2010, 15:43

You cant resource hack the mpc to look like this. at least i dont know how. (and i am quite familiar with reshacking because i reshacked my whole windows and a lots of programs i use.) or if i am completely mistaken, how did you do it?
Perhaps if you will read the whole his post, you'll notice "Well, I took a different path" and "All work was done with custom draw - GDI stuff" and other important things.

xdes

5th September 2010, 15:53

Perhaps if you will read the whole his post, you'll notice "Well, I took a different path" and "All work was done with custom draw - GDI stuff" and other important things.
yes, but it just confused me a little bit. because he also said that it is a working progress, and he mentioned also reshacking.
he could have that gdi stuff before the reshacking process as a blueprint or something like that.
ok, sorry.

RNiK

7th September 2010, 15:41

@bobdynlan - Nice work! ;)

tetsuo55

13th September 2010, 22:39

Are none of the skinners here interested in the logo and icons contest? http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156694

bebert

15th September 2010, 10:10

AutoHotkey MPC-HC control floating bar with popup menus for panscan numpad, audio, subs etc..
script currently under development.

screenies:
http://i53.tinypic.com/24ypzqd.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/2w7ekgp.jpg

slim version:
http://i51.tinypic.com/s0x11v.jpg

all functions invoked by 1 left mouse click only !
may be of interest to the MPC-HC community :)

best in a dual monitor set up

cyrilp

15th September 2010, 12:44

If i may tell... this is rather Ugly !

Dark Eiri

15th September 2010, 15:10

http://thumbnails6.imagebam.com/9780/6c478f97796143.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/6c478f97796143)

This is a nice skin. That up there, sir, is not.

chros

15th September 2010, 17:02

http://thumbnails6.imagebam.com/9780/6c478f97796143.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/6c478f97796143)

This is a nice skin. That up there, sir, is not.

Is this an MPC-HC skin? If it is, where can I find it?

Thanks

Dark Eiri

15th September 2010, 21:30

That is the KMPlayer default skin. And I don't see the need for multicolored giant buttons everywhere in yellow, green, pink and orange. Less is more, guys. Keep it simple, keep it functional.

tetsuo55

15th September 2010, 21:37

Taste if personal, if bebert wants his player to look like that then he should be able to do it.

bebert, go ahead and post how you did that.

Dark Eiri

15th September 2010, 22:26

I'm talking about a new "default" GUI. That wouldn't work.

tetsuo55

15th September 2010, 22:50

Yes, default gui has to be minimalistic.

bobdynlan

17th September 2010, 17:51

http://drop.io/download/public/aibakehym4xdgudx2ggl/675b36668f690cfcb7a635dbf49bcf70fede00e8/Asset/45668691/v3/large_thumbnail

Download: x86 build vs2008 (http://drop.io/bobdynlan/asset/mpc-hc-7z-8) and x64 build vs2008 (http://drop.io/bobdynlan/asset/mpc-hc64-7z-8) and source code
(http://drop.io/bobdynlan/asset/mpchc-bobdynlan-7z)

I have only tested old rev, but this build is with latest svn. Will test later when I steal some time. Don't laugh at my code, I'm just starting doing stuff like this. And I put quite some work against that *#&$ MFC that does not let you do what you want how you want.

Tip: check Tweaks
bebert : psychedelic!

nevcairiel

17th September 2010, 18:13

I briefly looked over the code, and it doesn't look as bad as you claim it is. ;) Surely there are some hacks in there, but working with MFC is always rather painful.

I'll try to run it later.

Ger

17th September 2010, 19:19

bobdynlan's r2575 mod works great here. :thanks:

I've gotten used to bigger buttons, so here are a couple of alternative screenshots, using bobdynlan's exe and round black 32x32 toolbar from here (http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/Toolbar_images).

Windowed:
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/134/windowqq.th.png (http://img266.imageshack.us/i/windowqq.png/)

Full screen:
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5175/fullscreen.th.png (http://img822.imageshack.us/i/fullscreen.png/)

EDIT: By the way, if longinus525 happens to be reading this, any chance you could make a version of your glossy toolbar that looks better with the dark background? The dark buttons are barely visible now.

mariush

17th September 2010, 20:46

Maybe you guys can get "inspired" by some Winamp skins... if I may suggest (of course, maybe not so tiny but scaled up a bit I think they'd look pretty well):

http://download.nullsoft.com/customize/component/2006/1/7/S/large_image/CleanAMP_v2.jpg
http://www.winamp.com/skin/cleanamp-v2/146899

http://download.nullsoft.com/customize/component/2007/10/25/S/large_image/Milk_v1.jpg
http://www.winamp.com/skin/milk-v1/171470

http://download.nullsoft.com/customize/component/2007/3/20/S/large_image/Charcoal.jpg
http://www.winamp.com/skin/charcoal/163390

http://download.nullsoft.com/customize/component/2008/1/29/S/large_image/Easy_Listening.jpg
http://www.winamp.com/skin/easy-listening/192687

http://download.nullsoft.com/customize/component/2006/5/20/S/large_image/Neuramp_Blue.gif
http://www.winamp.com/skin/neuramp-blue/147713

... and these ones mostly for the actual button design

http://download.nullsoft.com/customize/component/3/2004/8/2/S/large_image/Multipass.jpg
http://www.winamp.com/skin/multipass/142635

http://download.nullsoft.com/customize/component/3/2003/3/22/S/large_image/Minima.jpg
http://www.winamp.com/skin/minima/131340

http://download.nullsoft.com/customize/component/3/2002/8/29/S/large_image/MoodLogic_Skin.jpg
http://www.winamp.com/skin/moodlogic-skin/120121

Midzuki

17th September 2010, 21:43

bobdynlan

18th September 2010, 02:21

For those not having the heart to try it out:

This is an almost plug&play mod. I've high-jacked the "Don't use XP-theming..." to enable or disable it at runtime without restart (but some leaks may still be present so don't abuse it). This pnp thing took more than the actual design :) but the gain in usability was worth the trouble. So you will be switching it on or off from the Tweaks Page. Note that off is not 100% the same as the non-mod, because I have removed some borders. Two overall colours can also be selected in Tweaks, face and outline. The custom toolbar.bmp resource uses (0,0,0) for button face and (128,128,128) for button outline - those two will be replaced with your own. The seek bar will use them in the same matter, but the volume control will use them as left/right (could be undesirable sometimes, but it is fine as default).

Next (main) feature is the seamless gradient background between the toolbar and the seekbar. The toolbar also uses custom glass-like highlight. I would say it's better than default W7 because it aligns the mask to the center of the buttons and it better highlights selected buttons. Also it tries to blend in the separators. Disabled buttons are painted only on the outline. The volume control is redesigned. Ditched the thumb. Has different looks for mute/play and uses the custom colours for selected/not selected areas. Ditched the thumb from the seek bar, too. Useless when you can click anywhere on the channel. An added (or removed in some pov's) functionality, is that it will update media to position only after mouse drag ends. The default behaviour killed my speakers most of the times when used with a touch-pad. And feels choppy with mouse anyway.

Some cosmetic changes applied to the status and info bars. Blend in with the toolbar by removing the 3dframe. Will hide most of the white flicker on the right+down sides when window is resized from the left. The playlist has only the background and default text color updated and the borders around reduced. Did not want to mess with sizecbar component. Changed noaudio/mono/stereo images also. Pleasant sound waves should never be drawn as straight lines, better of without them :)

As Ger pointed out, this mod can be used with your custom toolbar buttons, it will not update those.
And this concludes my mod. Please keep mod-related bugs out of main thread, use this one instead.

About performance now: I've cared about looks first, and less code added second. Many things could be improved, but don't expect wonders. tetsuo55, nothing can beat performance-wise the 3(three) GDI lines that create the default volume control. Not even dots, as those are even more taxing :) Something may be squished from the gradient fill, uses default function that should be hwacc (but not for the seekbar - uses an offscreen dc because I had some bad experience with flickering on W7 basic theme).

http://drop.io/download/public/aibakehym4xdgudx2ggl/280163f422de59451283c2220e53113b682910b5/Asset/45791045/v3/large_thumbnail
I use this one on my ageing crt, helps reduce screen afterglow and does not burn my eyes on popup :) Presenting the very first easter egg: pure pink color (RGB 255,0,255) is used as a mask color and will be painted transparent.

Keiyakusha

18th September 2010, 09:27

bobdynlan
Ohh you did great job! And its compatible with toolbar styling... Thanks!

iron2000

18th September 2010, 11:41

The black GUI is looking real slick.

Is it possible to make it so that the menu bar can be hidden without hiding the window frame?

phoenix_fr

18th September 2010, 11:55

problems gui mpc hc for me

http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/avant137.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/avant137.php)

1/ statut bar: that uses too much space to the need

2/ seek bar: ugly worthy of Windows 3.1, my idea that there is no need to hide something nice, then revamp the bar, and the need to hide it faster than his shadow appeased for all

3/ menu bar: no point, everything is accessible via right-click on player

------------------------------------------
as it should be for my taste

http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/apres77.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/apres77.php)

------------------------------------------
for seek bar customs

why not do as what is permitted in "SuperCopier 2.2" with progress bar of transfer files

------------------------------------------

for buttons bar,

are used almost as next and previous chapter.
Play / Pause takes one click on the area of the video itself (touchscreen or mouse)
and "stop" is useless.
fast forward and rewind, are useless if the seek bar is present

personally in windows usage (not full screen) I head button bars, and use those of the Windows7 taskbar

Mercury_22

18th September 2010, 12:29

mariush

18th September 2010, 12:54

http://drop.io/download/public/aibakehym4xdgudx2ggl/280163f422de59451283c2220e53113b682910b5/Asset/45791045/v3/large_thumbnail
I use this one on my ageing crt, helps reduce screen afterglow and does not burn my eyes on popup :) Presenting the very first easter egg: pure pink color (RGB 255,0,255) is used as a mask color and will be painted transparent.

I just have four observations to make about that picture, on first look:

1. The contrast is kind of low - older people don't differentiate shades of gray so well but still enjoy colorful movies - also keep in mind a relatively large percent of people are colorblind and for some of these it manifests in seeing that as a blob of gray

2. The buttons seem to close together - it's not obvious how far to the left and right of each icon center user can press so they'll force themselves to click in the middle, which degrades the user experience. With the standard MPC-HC you can notice when use moves mouse over buttons they raise up - don't see how it's in your version.

Nowadays most people have at least 1280x720 screens so they could be a bit more spaced out - even at normal size most videos are now at least 640x480 so the player width will be around that.

3. The seek bar is too thin - you'll just annoy people with low quality mouse or shaky hands by making them click on the picture pausing the movie instead of clicking on the seek bar.

4. It's not really clear how the volume works - for lots of people clicking on that sound icons means muting the video. If it's meant to click on it and have a slider pop up than that's a downgrade in efficiency and interface design - you're forcing someone to do two clicks now and concentrate and moving mouse from the first click to the volume slider ...

Keiyakusha

18th September 2010, 13:09

bobdynlan, is it possible to also make custom frame with window controls? Currently I'm using your modded version with captions&menu off...

Kado

18th September 2010, 14:35

@bobdynlan
Your mod is actually quite nice! Hope it gets integrated in mpc-hc project. Is it possible to either hide the "top" menu or change it's color as well, to match the bottom? Also what's up with that dash in the middle of the control bar?
Cheers

bobdynlan

19th September 2010, 01:46

The reason I started on doing this was this: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1378249#post1378249
I never used the default light gray background from windows themes. Whenever I changed that from default, the toolbar buttons did not follow the colour setup in CP for 3d objects. So I had to use the hack of no xp-theming that fixed it, but made ugly buttons. My only complain about the default gui was this bug, and I have only wished for a dark background as a feature add. Hitting an wall on that, decided to fix it myself.

My goal was never to pimp it up with some fluffy bitmaps. It's not even hard to do that. Looking at the source code for the - awesome in it's simplicity - default volume control, motivated me to learn about custom draw, gdi and mfc in general. Well, it's not the ideal ide for media player gui creation. You can create bloated ribbon bars as easy as 1-2-3, but when it comes to things like a volume control, not even MS can do it well, look at the result in Windows 7, the slider does not even match colour with the triangular shape from the right side. MPC-HC is already filled with hacks in the gui area, and this makes a simple thing like choosing a darker solid colour background for the toolbar not trivial. You need to change source code in several places. Get around things like client and non-client areas, controls repositioning & etc.

One thing lead to another, but the deviations are slim. Some custom buttons to go well with the dark background. Better highlighting. Volume control that keeps the triangular shape. Seek bar - pff that was a pain. If you take a close look, you will see I was only interested in the basic controls used in fullscreen as that's the mode I use it the most. Mercury_22, I personally hate WMP's hiding of controls in windowed mode, and MS hates it too, but surrendered to the "mob", against basic accessibility guides. You should forget about transparency until the gui is ported to something designed for that i.e. directx.

Keiyakusha, I've always used 0 Border Padding in Color and Appereance settings and that makes it less ugly. I don't see the point of re-adding borders to the frame-less mode. I even hide the status bar frame (it was also the reason for the white flicker on resize). I do however think that adding a close/switch back button is a must. Try closing MPC-HC from frame-less mode, when auto zoom is on and audio is playing... by just using the mouse.

Kado, the menu bar is another one of those "tabu" things like the toolbar. I guess will be just a litle harder to do. Anyway it's one of those items that should really match the OS. MS seems to think this way. But hiding the menu bar could be an option, as long as an revert button is provided.
That dash is a separator, it always have been there but was painted over. I actually liked it in full screen, halving that empty area, and did not attempt to remove it.

But the interesting part is under the hood. Because I was learning on the go, I've commented and delimited everything out. Code added, even if it's bad, should not sound alien as it's based on default. It can be used as a proof of concept or at least as motivational. I never put my hopes on seeing it on mpc-hc and you should not either. But some change is needed. If you look back, almost all players got several face-lifts. Dev's should acknowledge that there is a close competition even if you did not signup for the race. I would hate to see this project gone.
Thank you.

Kado

19th September 2010, 02:23

@bobdynlan
If auto hide could be eventually implemented the same way Explorer does in Windows 7, menu appears when you press "ALT" in the keyboard. And having and option like "Enable menu auto hide".

tetsuo55

19th September 2010, 10:52

But the interesting part is under the hood. Because I was learning on the go, I've commented and delimited everything out. Code added, even if it's bad, should not sound alien as it's based on default. It can be used as a proof of concept or at least as motivational. I never put my hopes on seeing it on mpc-hc and you should not either. But some change is needed. If you look back, almost all players got several face-lifts. Dev's should acknowledge that there is a close competition even if you did not signup for the race. I would hate to see this project gone.
Thank you.We're not against changes like these, polishing the existing gui is a good idea.
Our main concern however is time-to-first-frame-displayed.
So when you open the player by opening a video in explorer, how long does it take for the 1st frame to be displayed.
Thats the benchmark that we want to be nr1 on.

bobdynlan

20th September 2010, 15:31

tetsuo55, I agree that a benchmark is needed and I was thinking about some high-performance timer to count just until the first loaded frame, in release mode, and outputting the value in a file or in the registry. But there are far better skilled people in the team to provide that. If you ask me, "eye-o-metric" it takes the same time :) And the "eye" spends more time looking at the gui than waiting for it.

Kado, "press Alt to see the menu" is another level of regression from the "press Alt to see key accelerators". Good thing you can turn it off, not like that awful ribbon... but this is a media player and different rules apply. I don't want to look as stiff as the devs :rolleyes: so I've added an option to just hide the menubar, from the menu or by pressing the Alt key. Twice. Doing hocus-pocus like MS does in IE was too much trouble. And wrong (try pressing Alt again with the IE menu popped up). To do auto-hide, another timer is needed and I've already messed too much with the mainfrm as hiding the menubar can break calculations. Better than nothing.

The Hand(cursor) missed by djsolidsnake86 in later builds, found it's way back, on the status bar and on the volume ctrl. Good thing it was removed from the video area to make way for this.

And I've changed some of all-time wanted default shortcuts:
Framestep - Ctrl + Left/Right and Seek Medium - Left/Right.
Now it does not feel retarded anymore for grandma.
Audio delay - Ctrl + Num+/Num-
Preventing accidental press when trying to resize video window, as those keys are on the far right and quite large.
File Properties - Tab
From Shift+F10. Also changed the dialog to start with the Details sheet, as that's the primary info needed.
http://drop.io/download/public/aibakehym4xdgudx2ggl/d3594d722a0aefd82d6d5e266be3f19a27a21b98/Asset/46059233/v3/large_thumbnail
x86 2599 VS2008 build (http://drop.io/bobdynlan/asset/mpc-hc-2599-7z) and source diff (http://drop.io/bobdynlan/asset/bobdynlan-2599-src-7z)

tetsuo55

20th September 2010, 15:37

We actually do not have any devs willing or able to write that benchmark.
Could you do the honors? :)

iron2000

20th September 2010, 18:24

Thanks for adding the menu bar hide, bobdynlan!

Tried the new build.
The menu bar hides but it comes back after exiting from fullscreen.

Also the stereo icon at the bottom right of the status area is not cleaned up properly.
Or has it been like that since a long time?

73ChargerFan

20th September 2010, 20:10

Regarding hitting the ALT or other keys, please remember HTPC users don't have a keyboard handy. Mouse is the only way.

tetsuo55

20th September 2010, 20:14

bobdynlan if you could join us on IRC we could discus how to get these changes into the svn.

http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=mpc-hc

sidi0us

21st September 2010, 20:46

bobdynlan, would you reconsider removing the separators? I think it looks nicer.

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/sidi0us/1.jpg

with timer
http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/sidi0us/1-1.jpg

What do you guys think?

Dark Eiri

21st September 2010, 23:52

Whoa, it does look really nice!

Tsukihime

22nd September 2010, 04:53

@sidi0us, with timer it looks very nice

sidi0us

22nd September 2010, 08:05

With smaller and fewer buttons (increase/decrease speed removed). I think that the "step" button should be used to open files.

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/sidi0us/2.jpg

tetsuo55

22nd September 2010, 08:54

sidi0us are you modifying the code or using photoshop?

sidi0us

22nd September 2010, 09:02

sidi0us are you modifying the code or using photoshop?

Photoshop :|

This is how it looks right now

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/sidi0us/1-2.jpg

bobdynlan

22nd September 2010, 10:27

That would be a nice step up in terms of usability. Crossed my mind many times, but doing that would have killed the plug&play approach (on/revert at runtime). And is one of those moves that don't fit in the "moving few pixels here and there" category. I had enough problems making the volume control "transparent", but the same solution could work for this too. Later. For now, let's find a way to hide those separators (search for mfc flat toolbar separators and you will see how problematic they are).

EDIT:
Here's a new build to try out (http://drop.io/bobdynlan/asset/mpc-hc-2599b-7z-10). Changes:
- Play & Pause combined into one
- Pause replaced by Step
- Step replaced by Open. This is a new entry. I've changed the not used "volume disabled" image. External toolbar bitmaps should be modified with a changed last icon, too (you see now why are changes like this not welcomed).
- So the layout is now Play(Pause)-Step-Stop-SkipBack-DecSpeed-IncSpeed-SkipForw-|Open|-Mute
- Fixed the extra separators showing up, now it's the same as default, two around Open(former Skip)
- Volume control uses face+outline colours for the active part, not changeable darker colour for the inactive part. Looked odd in the left=face, right=outline approach
- Fixed hidden menu popping out after fullscreen
- Window's horizontal size limited to the width of the toolbar
http://drop.io/download/public/aibakehym4xdgudx2ggl/c8ea33a42a4e5263b2a3352a8d8646c314d76b78/Asset/46421251/v3/large_thumbnail

Sem

23rd September 2010, 17:37

This is really awesome

what are the chances of it becoming the default UI

iron2000

23rd September 2010, 17:55

Tested the new build.

Nice!
The menu bar coming back upon fullscreen exit is no longer happening.
The stereo icon is cleaned up too.

Ger

23rd September 2010, 18:22

Nice work.

A 32x32 version of the default toolbar would be appreciated. Maybe 32x32 can be embedded in the exe, with an option on the Tweaks page to choose the button size?

The default buttons are very small on a TV when you're farther away from the screen.

v0lt

23rd September 2010, 20:01

bobdynlan
- Play & Pause combined into one
not best solution. I vote for two buttons.

tetsuo55

23rd September 2010, 20:10

bobdynlan

not best solution. I vote for two buttons.can you explain why you want the 2? they are mutually exclusive, thus redundant.

sidi0us

23rd September 2010, 20:13

can you explain why you want the 2? they are mutually exclusive, thus redundant.

I agree, it should be only one button.

v0lt

23rd September 2010, 20:52

Two buttons. Where do you press, then what will happen.

One button. If a player is frozen, you will remember how many times have clicked it? What will happen is unclear. Enrages.

sidi0us

23rd September 2010, 20:59

Two buttons. Where do you press, then what will happen.

One button. If a player is frozen, you will remember how many times have clicked it? What will happen is unclear. Enrages.

The button icon changes from play to pause and backwards, if the player is frozen you will know in which mode it is. And besides that, when mpc-hc ever frozen?

v0lt

23rd September 2010, 21:37

I do not remember exactly now, but the button "play-pause" in a sort of slow player really irritated me.

tetsuo55

23rd September 2010, 21:46

it should not be a problem for mpc-hc

bobdynlan

23rd September 2010, 23:07

I do not remember exactly now, but the button "play-pause" in a sort of slow player really irritated me. That's why I've moved the Step button second. At least in video mode, it will pause when pressed. So you can still click the first button to play, the second button to pause, until the old habit dies :) I have found it much irritating not being able to click on the already selected and poorly highlighted buttons. The frame around selected buttons should be gone too, as the change of icon is enough visual aid (paused, stopped, muted). Basically, all items to be buttons and not (group)check-boxes.
Nobody complains about the Open icon (done in VS resource editor in under five minutes) so I will keep it :rolleyes: It was made to really stand out and scratch some retina's. Will change it to ^ standard one on the next sketch.

v0lt

24th September 2010, 03:56

bobdynlan
Nobody complains about the Open icon
Icon is not successful. :)

Bacon_67

25th September 2010, 10:24

It looks like disabling the menu bar creates tiny black borders on the top and bottom between the actual video and GUI edges (appears to only be apparent after closing the playing and opening a new video with the menu bar disabled). You can make them go away but slightly adjusting the window size vertically, but so it's just a minor annoyance. :)

phoenix_fr

25th September 2010, 17:50

bobdynlan
your last build is really great (it's a pity that no 64bits)

but
"Open icon" would rather have a classic folder look, here "3 2 1" is not terrible depending on the color you chose in the options

However it is unfortunate that this is not built into every new build on
http://www.xvidvideo.ru/media-player-classic-home-cinema-x86-x64/

otherwise
is it possible to add a parameter of thickness of the color bar in the 'seek bar'
that it covers the part that you have "skinned" for her

BUT there must be a bug, because it adds to me of both the top and bottom of the video compared to the unmodified version of mpc hc

unless it takes the fact that there is a 32bit version, not my usual version is 64bit and I use with my ffdshow also

_xxl

25th September 2010, 20:06

Thanks for your work.

DGMurdockIII

27th September 2010, 17:44

Photoshop :|

This is how it looks right now

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/sidi0us/1-2.jpg

if this became the default I would give MPC-HC another try for a week to see if i would use it over vlc

bobdynlan

27th September 2010, 22:47

is it possible to add a parameter of thickness of the color bar in the 'seek bar'
that it covers the part that you have "skinned" for her

BUT there must be a bug, because it adds to me of both the top and bottom of the video compared to the unmodified version of mpc hc Some will find hard to understand your post, but I know french :) It's a good practice to provide a screenshot with the issues you've found, as pictures are better than words sometimes. Like:
http://drop.io/download/public/aibakehym4xdgudx2ggl/00c8eb4e7e443a081609028c2980996e7a719fdb/Asset/46907797/v3/large_thumbnail
I am aware of those issues. First one happens because you use higher DPI settings than default. In Windows 7 there is an option to disable XP DPI Scaling and you get a proper enlarged (blurred) picture. Scaling can be disabled for the seekbar. Second one, hiding of the menu bar breaks some calculations for the window size.
Wait for the next schetch, it will solve some of these issues.

stax76

27th September 2010, 23:24

Difficult topic I know, I've spent weeks to make StaxRip fully high DPI aware, would be nice MPC-HC getting there too.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd464660%28v=VS.85%29.aspx

tetsuo55

28th September 2010, 07:54

High DPI awareness would be great.
If either of you could write a patch? we have an old ticket about it http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/ticket/311

73ChargerFan

28th September 2010, 18:24

With smaller and fewer buttons (increase/decrease speed removed). I think that the "step" button should be used to open files.

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/sidi0us/2.jpg
Can Play/Pause be the same button?

73ChargerFan

28th September 2010, 18:57

And besides that, when mpc-hc ever frozen?
It happens when there is a problem with one of the filters.

Happens with me all the time (dts over spdif), at which time I switch from one audio-out filter to another and restart the player.

Also happens when Haali matroska splitter doesn't like a file.

sidi0us

28th September 2010, 20:08

Can Play/Pause be the same button?

Yes, try bobdynlan's latest build, see post #162 (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1445202&postcount=162).

It happens when there is a problem with one of the filters.

Happens with me all the time (dts over spdif), at which time I switch from one audio-out filter to another and restart the player.

Also happens when Haali matroska splitter doesn't like a file.

Never happened to me, but it's good to know.

phoenix_fr

2nd October 2010, 15:03

hello

for me

http://nsa20.casimages.com/img/2010/10/02/101002040104873750.png (http://www.casimages.com)

for "thicker" via option "%" of X
X no determinate actually... X = height of video ? ... if 0 (music) then value defaut
or "nb pixel"

phoenix_fr

2nd October 2010, 15:24

http://nsa20.casimages.com/img/2010/10/02/mini_10100204164052836.png (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=10100204164052836.png)

left:

1) pb back stripes
2) seek bar no centered at height

right:

1) no pb back stripes
2) seek bar centered at height (Modified 2 pixels high in the skin)
3) thickness current bar (yellow here) increased

_________

bobdynlan
you prevent me from sleeping with the work you do on the interface

http://tesson.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/reve-voler-1-160.jpg

bobdynlan

3rd October 2010, 02:59

phoenix_fr, next sketch will have the option to enlarge the controls, and maybe autoswitch depending on DPI. Menus are looking great in any DPI settings with just a small .manifest patch, but the bitmap controls must be recreated at different sizes. About the seekbar, it can be made ticker, but the above and below borders will have to be made ticker as well, reason for this is not only cosmetic, it's an usability feature (too crowded will generate not wanted clicks on the video window or on the toolbar, and will be even worse on audio mode when autozoom).

In the following days I will have more time for working on this. Last time, I've fixed the hide menu adding black borders, made a 20pix toolbar, removed all the separators and cured that frequent need to press Ctrl+5...

http://drop.io/download/public/aibakehym4xdgudx2ggl/bad702807b4379bdaa17737733e7f6291e25bcc9/Asset/47401753/v3/large_thumbnail

Dark Eiri

3rd October 2010, 04:18

Wow, this last screenshot looks beautiful! It looks awesome, I think it's well balanced in size, thickness of the time slider and everything. Congrats, man! You're doing an awesome job! I can't wait for it to be merged to the SVN.

Keiyakusha

3rd October 2010, 09:51

Is is possible to replace anything that is bitmap with... lets say svg?

burfadel

3rd October 2010, 15:51

Photoshop :|

This is how it looks right now

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/sidi0us/1-2.jpg

That would be a nice step up in terms of usability. Crossed my mind many times, but doing that would have killed the plug&play approach (on/revert at runtime). And is one of those moves that don't fit in the "moving few pixels here and there" category. I had enough problems making the volume control "transparent", but the same solution could work for this too. Later. For now, let's find a way to hide those separators (search for mfc flat toolbar separators and you will see how problematic they are).

EDIT:
Here's a new build to try out (http://drop.io/bobdynlan/asset/mpc-hc-2599b-7z-10). Changes:
- Play & Pause combined into one
- Pause replaced by Step
- Step replaced by Open. This is a new entry. I've changed the not used "volume disabled" image. External toolbar bitmaps should be modified with a changed last icon, too (you see now why are changes like this not welcomed).
- So the layout is now Play(Pause)-Step-Stop-SkipBack-DecSpeed-IncSpeed-SkipForw-|Open|-Mute
- Fixed the extra separators showing up, now it's the same as default, two around Open(former Skip)
- Volume control uses face+outline colours for the active part, not changeable darker colour for the inactive part. Looked odd in the left=face, right=outline approach
- Fixed hidden menu popping out after fullscreen
- Window's horizontal size limited to the width of the toolbar
http://drop.io/download/public/aibakehym4xdgudx2ggl/c8ea33a42a4e5263b2a3352a8d8646c314d76b78/Asset/46421251/v3/large_thumbnail

I much prefer the top one over the bottom one. The bottom one is, no offence, very bland. The top one look great, and IMO looks more Windows 7ish, whereas the bottom one looks more XPish :)

Keiyakusha

3rd October 2010, 18:33

burfadel
I don't see much difference between 2 images you quoted. If you don't like buttons - use your own. AFAIR toolbar styling wasn't removed.

burfadel

3rd October 2010, 19:11

The first pic has shaded 3d-like buttons that look in place, the second one is just white blocks, people may think the button icons aren't working and be turned off. The volume icon on the second one looks better though :) If you make the interface too bland its not going to be attractive for people too use, and they may be turned away like they are with the current Windows 95 style interface. Its just like buying a car. The car could be great value for money, have all the features you could ever want, be high powered, really economical and cheap for service and repairs, but if the styling is too plain, bland, and/or boring people won't buy it. The same car with nice, modern styling that isn't over the top could end up with many times more sales. The interface needs to be a balance between being nice and clean enough for the enthusiasts to be partial to, and interesting/impressive enough for people who don't know anything about the capabilities of MPC-HC to be enthused enough to give it a chance.

Keiyakusha

3rd October 2010, 20:21

burfadel
Oh you don't need to explain why shaded buttons can be better, yes they can look nice. However in this case I don't agree that buttons on the 1st image looks "in place". The buttons on 2nd image looks way better for me. Maybe because I tried both of this variants in action. The buttons on 1st image needs to be redone to really fit to current look.

phoenix_fr

4th October 2010, 12:14

Ok

http://nsa19.casimages.com/img/2010/10/04/10100401114840735.png (http://www.casimages.com)

otherwise,
compared to your screen just above

would it be possible to have the time elapsed at the same height as the seek bar

there I began to right, but it might be more logical left?

the idea is that if you hide the button bar and use the seek bar to navigate, it has at least an indication of time

nevcairiel

4th October 2010, 12:20

Splitting the time into two positions seems rather confusing.

sidi0us

4th October 2010, 13:44

I much prefer the top one over the bottom one. The bottom one is, no offence, very bland. The top one look great, and IMO looks more Windows 7ish, whereas the bottom one looks more XPish :)

You can use one of these (http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/Toolbar_images) buttons, or make your own.

Ok

otherwise,
compared to your screen just above

would it be possible to have the time elapsed at the same height as the seek bar

there I began to right, but it might be more logical left?

the idea is that if you hide the button bar and use the seek bar to navigate, it has at least an indication of time

That doesn't look too good, I agree with nevcairiel.

Keiyakusha

4th October 2010, 16:32

phoenix_fr
Agree with nevcairiel. Also when subresync active, there is also milliseconds on the timer. You probably should take this into account.

iron2000

5th October 2010, 04:56

Splitting the time into two positions seems rather confusing.

Yup, I agree too.

Maybe thare can be 2 versions of seekbars available at the View menu, one with the 2 time values and one is just the seek bar.

phoenix_fr

5th October 2010, 19:25

or the "total time" is at the right volume on the button bar.
like that when we display the two bars it's been "clean"

http://nsa19.casimages.com/img/2010/10/05/101005082422424307.png (http://www.casimages.com)

Note: the drawing of the speaker is not necessary I think,
just the appearance of red ring strikethrough (and green ring if sound ON ? ... to made "clic" )

73ChargerFan

6th October 2010, 15:28

phoenix_fr, next sketch will have the option to enlarge the controls, and maybe autoswitch depending on DPI. Menus are looking great in any DPI settings with just a small .manifest patch...

If the toolbar can be resized under software control (vs compile time) please have an override setting, even if it might be registry or ini file only at first. That way others can play with it or adjust it.

I use a 20" lcd & 58" tv and sometimes the buttons are too small at 10 feet using the mouse.

Thanks for what you're doing!

STaRGaZeR

6th October 2010, 18:26

DO NOT BLUR THE GUI PLEASE!!! Those screenshots have blur up the ass. We already have enough with the cleartype-can't-be-disabled-in-some-OS-fonts-without-ugly-hacks bullcrap in Vista/7.

And whatever you do with the open button, do not replace the step button, as it's quite useful. Lastly, do not remove the pause button.

sidi0us

6th October 2010, 19:54

1. The blur is from resizing.
2. The step button is right after the play/pause, which is only one button now.

STaRGaZeR

7th October 2010, 00:00

play/pause, which is only one button now.

Exactly, and that sucks IMO.

73ChargerFan

7th October 2010, 05:49

DO NOT BLUR THE GUI PLEASE!!! Those screenshots have blur up the ass.
They're mostly jpegs. Chill.

Keiyakusha

7th October 2010, 07:28

Exactly, and that sucks IMO.

Why? Step works like pause when you pressing it 1st time. You also have combined play/pause button. Why keep one more way to make pause?

sidi0us

7th October 2010, 07:37

Exactly.

bobdynlan

10th October 2010, 03:33

Did not have much time lately, but here's another nude build (http://drop.io/bobdynlan/asset/mpc-hc-7z-9) to try out and play with the limited scaling of the controls. I will clean up the Swiss cheese I've added in the already spaghetti source code and try to compile it in the latest builds, then post a proper package. Any suggestions are welcomed.

Ger

10th October 2010, 16:55

:thanks:

Play/pause looks much better now with the button frame removed.

Different button sizes (tweaks page) seems to work fine. Size 28 is fine for my TV. But size 1 and 16 seem to be the same. I assume size 1 shouldn't really be listed?

Any chance the menu colors can be changed to match the new interface (dark background etc.)?

I assume the logic behind the new time display is to get rid of the status bar. I agree with that idea, but there are a couple of features still missing when the status bar is disabled.
Suggestions:
1. The status bar shows [DXVA] after "Playing" if DXVA is used. Since we're already at a point where the custom toolbars need to be redone, why not add a DXVA indicator to the toolbar (an icon that lights up when DXVA is active).
2. The speaker icon on the status bar also indicates when there are no audio tracks. Perhaps the mute button can have a third state (maybe greyed out like the play button is when no file is loaded) to indicate that there is no audio track.

Hypernova

10th October 2010, 17:52

@bobdynlan Thank you for another build. I've been silently using your build for a while now. I do like the time/total next to the volume bar, but is it possible to change the font there?

bobdynlan

10th October 2010, 18:29

Ger
Size 1 means auto-select based upon dpi settings, so for 96dpi = 16, 120dpi = 20, 144dpi = 24, higher = 28.
You must be running on default dpi, so 16 is used.

The status bar has its purpose, and will not be removed.
But the GUI looks better with it hidden, and now keeps most of it's functionality (minus the DXVA indicator).

The open icon replaces the existing but not used third state of the volume icon for no audio.
Should not be hard to implement this third state, but will require dropping the open icon or increasing the button count.

Since you've mentioned it, where should that DXVA indicator go in the proposed layout? How about media status = Playing, Paused...?

Colouring the menu is a different thing, as it can hurt usability and I thought it's better left alone. I will make an attempt in the future.

Hypernova
The timer scales with the toolbar size, same as the progress channel and the volume control. From my limited testing, the text should be more readable than the status bar one, cleartype or not.
If you are talking about the font face, now it does not nominate an exact one, Windows chooses it based on parameters (like FF_SWISS = MS Sans Serif compatible font).
Using custom font face will complicate the now few calculations to scale the output, but it can be done.

phoenix_fr

10th October 2010, 19:44

please

possibility of a build 64bit as mid September,

as home build 32bit bug when I want to navigate using the seek bar

the image in mpc "freeze", while the sound has no problem

Ger

10th October 2010, 19:45

Size 1 means auto-select based upon dpi settings, so for 96dpi = 16, 120dpi = 20, 144dpi = 24, higher = 28.
You must be running on default dpi, so 16 is used.
I see. Yes, I'm on Windows default dpi. I suggest changing the "1" to "Auto" or "Auto dpi" or something more intuitive then.

The status bar has its purpose, and will not be removed.
But the GUI looks better with it hidden, and now keeps most of it's functionality (minus the DXVA indicator).

Yes, there is no point in removing it completely, I never meant to insinuate that. But like you say, it can be disabled easily, and the GUI looks better that way. At least when there is no information (title/EPG) etc.

The open icon replaces the existing but not used third state of the volume icon for no audio.
Should not be hard to implement this third state, but will require dropping the open icon or increasing the button count.

OK. Then my vote is for increasing the button count. Third party toolbars have to be redone anyway since the open icon is a greyed out speaker now.

Since you've mentioned it, where should that DXVA indicator go in the proposed layout?

I don't really know. I'm not a graphics design person by any means. Perhaps to the right of the progress slider, similar to where phoenix_fr put the time in his Photoshopped GUI a few posts above this? Maybe it can look as it does now with software decoding, and then a DXVA indicator appears there when it's active.

How about media status = Playing, Paused...?
Is this text really needed? The state of the play/pause button indicates playing or paused. That leaves the stopped state. I suppose greying out the stop button when it's already in stopped state would be a good indicator?

If people really want the Playing/Paused/Stopped text, then I would suggest the same position I suggested above for DXVA, right of the progress slider.

Colouring the menu is a different thing, as it can hurt usability and I thought it's better left alone. I will make an attempt in the future.

OK. I use the "favorites" feature a lot, so I use the menu quite often. I would actually rather have the open button bring up the favorites menu, since I never use the traditional File->Open anyway, but I'm guessing quite a few people would disagree with that. Again, an optional behavior for the open button would be perfect.

EDIT: Actually, after thinking about it, I think I would prefer the open button to bring up a custom menu with open/close related features, like when you right-click the open button in Winamp:
Reopen file (now CTRL-E, rebuilds graph)
Open File...
Open DVD...
Open Device...
Open Directory...
Open Disc >
Recent Files >
Favorites >
Close

I feeel like I'm asking for a lot now, but you asked for suggestions so... ;)

Hypernova

10th October 2010, 21:11

Ger
The timer scales with the toolbar size, same as the progress channel and the volume control. From my limited testing, the text should be more readable than the status bar one, cleartype or not.
If you are talking about the font face, now it does not nominate an exact one, Windows chooses it based on parameters (like FF_SWISS = MS Sans Serif compatible font).
Using custom font face will complicate the now few calculations to scale the output, but it can be done.

I did mean the font face. I would be great if you could make it another option. If not, I would vote for whatever windows' default UI font. I think it's Segoe UI? :thanks:

FoLLgoTT

14th October 2010, 13:23

Is it possible to make the position of the seek bar configurable? :)

I do vertical blanking with my projector and I don't see the bar anymore when playing movies in cinemascope format (2,35:1).

Ivoz

21st October 2010, 21:14

@ bobdynlan:

2 bugs:

http://imgur.com/qmCnk.png

You can see the mute button highlight is being hidden on the left side a little.

http://imgur.com/1Z8Ft.png

With a different skin, not only does the 'Open' button show as the mute button (which I imagine is because the skin needs to be changed) but there is space between the volume control and the side of the player that should not be there (i.e the volume control should be right up against the side of the player [with a bit of padding of course] but its spaced out too much).

The step button also doesn't highlight when I mouse over it.

The navigation bar:
The white bar doesn't seem quite vertically centered inside its black box to me; either it needs to be moved up 1 or 2 pixels or its shadow gives that impression. Also maybe you could give the black box that contains the white bar, rounded corners as well?

I wouldn't mind having the nav bar a few pixels vertically wider, or have this configurable. So its nice and easy to click on and see.

I don't think you need to show a DXVA status anywhere. If people are really fussed about knowing their video is playing DXVA (which shouldn't be an issue for most newish computers anyway? because their cpu can play it fine with/without DXVA?) then they can either enable the status bar or check with media info in the context menu that it is. Whether the video is playing in DXVA is not something you need to know during the entire duration of the video (like it's duration might be), but just once.

I think that at its heart MPC-HC is a media player, not media organiser. So I think features like favourites are extraneous to it and needn't be worried about too much such as needing a button in the GUI. Opening a file is an extremely common thing though so it's possible to consider. In my usage pattern I hardly ever use open though, because normally I will navigate to the file I want in explorer and either open it or drag it into an existing MPC-HC window. With a dedicated open button, I might start to use it, I'm not sure.

Anyway great work so far bobdynlan! <3

burfadel

21st October 2010, 21:34

Ivoz

22nd October 2010, 16:18

The bottom pic is much nicer than the top pic, it looks like good and that its meant to be like that. The top one, where the buttons are white and background (frame?) is black just looks a bit plain an uninteresting.

The worst thing that could happen is having a new gui which is too plain, and too hard to use due to small buttons.

The look of the buttons can be easily skinned dude, so don't worry about that. If bobdynlan's changes get accepted into mpc-hc's main code then people will just have to update their toolbar skins slightly and all will be well. I'm pointing out problems with the layout of the default and modded skins.

bobdynlan

26th October 2010, 21:04

I acknowledge these are strong issues. I'm on a holiday so I had no time to iron them out. Starting this weekend I will get involved more and hopefully end up with an usable result. Thank you for all your suggestions.

Ger

27th October 2010, 05:05

I don't think you need to show a DXVA status anywhere.
Need, no. But it's clearly something a lot of people want. There is a reason it's there in the current/default MPC-HC GUI/status bar. It's also easy to refer to when helping people troubleshoot.

If people are really fussed about knowing their video is playing DXVA (which shouldn't be an issue for most newish computers anyway? because their cpu can play it fine with/without DXVA?)
DXVA is a key feature of MPC-HC. Perhaps the main reason why Casimir started the -HC project in the first place. My Core 2 Duo (not state-of-the-art by any means, but hardly an antique either) can't handle most of my 1080i files, not to mention the really demanding high bitrate stuff people have been posting here. That's not even considering a CPU intensive deinterlacing algo like yadif. And even if it did cope, I would obviously prefer minimal CPU usage over ~100%.

then they can either enable the status bar or check with media info in the context menu that it is. Whether the video is playing in DXVA is not something you need to know during the entire duration of the video (like it's duration might be), but just once.

The point is not to lose a significant (I know that is open to interpretation) part of the functionality of the status bar when it's disabled (because it doesn't look very good with the new GUI). This isn't a new feature after all. It's just a matter of keeping the old features easily accessible with a good looking GUI.

Also, the DXVA status is not shown in the file properties (if that's what you meant by media info), only in filters/decoder properties. And with some decoders, like the Microsoft decoder, that's not even an option, so the status bar may be the only way to tell, and we're hoping to keep that hidden after all.

I think that at its heart MPC-HC is a media player, not media organiser. So I think features like favourites are extraneous to it and needn't be worried about too much such as needing a button in the GUI.
Favorites are mostly a way to help you continue playback at a certain point, helping you remember where (file/position) you left-off. Should really be called bookmarks. And it sticks until manually removed, unlike the automatic remember position thing which is forgotten after opening a limited number of files. It is IMHO a key part of a media player, and I don't see how an external media organizer could replicate its functionality.

Opening a file is an extremely common thing though so it's possible to consider. In my usage pattern I hardly ever use open though, because normally I will navigate to the file I want in explorer and either open it or drag it into an existing MPC-HC window.
That's what I said earlier. I don't use the traditional file -> open at all since I start pretty much all files from either Total Commander/Shell Extension/Favorites/Skip forward. That is why I suggested expanding the features of the open button, similar to the one in WinAmp, where right-clicking brings up additional options that are way more useful to me than the plain open functionality. Again, the point is to be able to disable an ugly GUI element, the menu, and keep the most-used features easily accessible withiout wading through several levels of context menus.

With a dedicated open button, I might start to use it, I'm not sure.
Well, I know I won't, as long as it only does the regular open. Hence my request for an optional button behavior with the choices I listed earlier (through a WinAmp-esque button right-click if possible). I don't even know if it can be done in MFC, but bobdynlan has proven that a lot of things can be done that many didn't think was possible within the current framework. So if it is possible, and he's willing to consider it, then I fail to see how it could be a bad thing to have the extra options.

The white bar doesn't seem quite vertically centered inside its black box to me; either it needs to be moved up 1 or 2 pixels or its shadow gives that impression. Also maybe you could give the black box that contains the white bar, rounded corners as well?

This is infinitely less important to me than expanding the open button's features (including favorites) or keeping the DXVA indicator in the new GUI. Still, since your request won't hurt my usage in any way, I won't campaign against it. I hope you will consider the same in the future, since I don't think my requests will hurt your usage either.

As we all know, the decision on any request is ultimately up to bobdynlan anyway (and the MPC-HC team when/if the code is merged).

I wouldn't mind having the nav bar a few pixels vertically wider, or have this configurable. So its nice and easy to click on and see.

I wouldn't mind that either. That said, it's already way better than the old one, since it can now actually be seen from a distance.

The step button also doesn't highlight when I mouse over it.
I don't have that issue (default toolbar). I also don't have the left edge mute button issue from your screenshot. Perhaps font or OS related? Win7 x64 with default DPI here.

On a separate note, not directed at anyone in particular:
When/if most of us agree that the open button is here to stay, and that no further buttons are wanted, then the toolbar makers can be encouraged to do their thing. It's no point in asking them to follow every little change in the code until it's a settled toolbar. That way they don't have to make changes more than once.

My vote on the open button is a definite yes if it can be more flexible, and a "don't care" if it stays like it is now.

jaagil

4th November 2010, 16:17

Hi!
I really like this GUI and makes MPC lot cooler to use, but there is one big "bug" that makes me kind of sad.
When you close the program with playlist open, next time you open the program the playlist has closed itself.
Please make it remember if it was open or closed, like in the newest MPC.
Thanks and keep up the great work :)

jaagil

15th November 2010, 16:19

Did this project die? No posts for month?

Ivoz

18th November 2010, 14:42

Did this project die? No posts for month?

The 'project' was basically just bobdynlan hacking on it, so it would come back if he gets time to hack on it again :P

sabret00the

9th December 2010, 14:34

Have just seen this thread. I originally filed three bugs to modernise the GUI back in May and was shot down, so kinda gave up on this forum as a result. But as the rest of my programs are now starting to modernise, I'm hoping that some more effort can be put into the GUI.

The original bugs are simple:
Merge Title Bar And Menu Bar And Replace With Application Tab: http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/ticket/366
Auto Hide Player Controls In Windowed Mode: http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/ticket/367
Make Background Of Player Controls Transparent: http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/ticket/368

And here's a mockup I done to show their implementation: http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/343/c/9/mpc_hc_mockup___wip_by_sabret00the-d34iw8k.png

bobdynlan

9th December 2010, 21:29

The idea is not dead, but my social life... one of the disadvantages of remaining home and not emigrating like most of my generation. But that is why set-backs are good in life. Makes one see in perspective.

After another look at this attempt of mine, all I can say is that even if it appears to work on the outside, inside its too much spaghetti for my taste. I will attempt another reboot, maybe I will like the next one better and come forward with it. One thing I will let go, is the on the fly switching thing as it's the main source of ...spaghetti.

sabret00the, 366 - I will never be a supporter of the ribbon interface. 367 - doable, 368 - the dark gradient I've proposed makes the current mfc implementation less disagreeable. Maybe we can come up with a way, that will not break other things in the process.

sabret00the

9th December 2010, 21:51

sabret00the, 366 - I will never be a supporter of the ribbon interface. 367 - doable, 368 - the dark gradient I've proposed makes the current mfc implementation less disagreeable. Maybe we can come up with a way, that will not break other things in the process.

366: isn't quite the ribbon. It's simply the same interface that all modern browsers are implementing along with some of the more modern instant message programs. There is absolutely no need to display the menu bar at all times and by consolidating, you're able to compact and organise the player giving more room to the media.

367: Good news.

368: There's no need for the dark interface, it doesn't actually fit with the rest of the modern windows experience. Hence why I made the light gradient in my mockup. Even Windows has moved away from the dark gradients introduced in Vista.

Hypernova

9th December 2010, 22:09

Glad to here from you bobdynlan. I'm looking forward to your work.

I think you should make a new post or ask a moderator to move your & related post to a new thread. People who see the thread the first time probably won't notice bobdynlan's work since there is no mention of it in the first post.

bobdynlan

12th December 2010, 02:06

Hypernova, that's not the case as I've not yet delivered. But I've already started better, as using the IDE is beating the text editor approach I've used before. Disabling IntelliSense, adding Visual Assist X,CodeCompare, AnkhSVN, configuring a supertoolbar, editing snippets, really makes Visual Studio shine. I find myself using the filemanager (totalcmd with plugins) less and less. Working Copy Explorer rocks!

blaster00

12th December 2010, 02:07

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/343/c/9/mpc_hc_mockup___wip_by_sabret00the-d34iw8k.png
Looks really nice.And audio volume will looks better in bars than in slide, such as http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1452430#post1452430

But I don't think they will accept it, because some people take classic as fogyism.

burfadel

12th December 2010, 06:21

Not bad, but I thought I had a smudge on my screen with that texture, between the controls and the mute/speaker button :) The texture is a little 'dirty'?...

Looks good, although I believe the play, pause, and previous/next buttons should be bigger since they are more commonly used, whilst keeping the stop, fast rewind and fast forward, and step buttons sizes.

Astrophizz

12th December 2010, 06:41

I don't think it's a texture. I think it's just a transparent white overlay over the dirty snow ;)

sabret00the

12th December 2010, 11:42

Yup it's a semi-transparent overlay. One of the things I felt were quite an important step in the right direction by a few of the newer players out there.

burfadel

13th December 2010, 10:52

Ah I see now :) well in that case, it does look good :) lol

sabret00the

14th December 2010, 12:51

thank you.

burfadel

14th December 2010, 13:14

sabret00the

14th December 2010, 19:19

Thanks again, it really was simply my intention to keep the current feel of MPC but modernise it and I feel like I've done that. I most certainly feel there's room for tweaks like larger buttons too. But as things stand right now, I have a desktop with all types of shining and transparent things and then MPC-HC which looks like I've borrowed it from Windows 3.1. I'm not sure if any of the devs even watch this thread, but if they do, I do hope they take it under consideration. As stated earlier, this can be achieved in three bugs.

CruNcher

15th December 2010, 06:59

MPC (Media Player Classic) was meant to be a simple but fully functional player. It mirrored the very old WMP as in simplicity of it UI. The name 'Media Player Classic' was given to reflect the simpleness of the UI, like the original Windows Media player. The above GUI definitely keeps the simplicity and looks good doing it. The GUI of MPC-HC like I said in an earlier post is literally ancient, it would fiit in with Windows 95 (yes, from 15 years ago), and even the earlier Windows 3.1.

We here know how good MPC-HC is, but to anyone else, the current GUI is a major put-off. It doesn't show the simplicity as it was meant to originally, it shows outdatedness - and thats exactly what people think generally when they see it.

So, changing the UI to something like that above (with bigger main control buttons, like I suggested earlier) is not at all against the spirit of MPC, as it still shows the modern take on 'classic', that is, simple neat, whilst still having all the intended functionality.

The way I see it, when the interface does change (and hopefully to something modern like above, not just a different colour background and slightly different buttons), the name should change to 'MPC - Home Cinema', as I think that would be more fitting, and it gets away from the term 'classic' which people now interpret as meaning 'limited functionality'.

Exactly especially they where many features added and never the usability of those where adapted to the UI for example shader support you need a lot of clicks to enable the shaders you want to use this has to change (making them available after detecting the state if they can be used on some place easy accessible). The Design isn't really important but those usability changes are :) it shouldn't be that you need 1000x clicks to reach a common usage option same for other things like subtitles and audio tracks it should be more usable like the bigo ISVs design it. Though better Graphical Representation isn't needed for that but if you think content centric of course they could be a lot of Graphic stuff used as transparency (that would be also a usability aspect) to let the content shine all the time and only have the most used features easy accessible :)
Thats initialy also the reason why Players like Kmplayer and Potplayer forked out of MPC-HC to give users a easier access to MPC-HCs powerful Engine.
But still there are a lot of other problems to fix first Engine wise in performance and finally a proper filter unloading after closing the playback :(

cegy

27th December 2010, 13:01

would it be possible to upload the lastest build from bobdynlan to somewhere else (mediafire or somewhere else??) as drop.io is around anymore and i would like to see/use the new gui.

many thanks

o770

27th December 2010, 20:18

Two buttons the controls bar misses to toggle on or off the playlist and the fullscreen mode.

Karina

28th February 2011, 10:12

http://www.xvidvideo.ru/component/docman/doc_details/5441-media-player-classic-homecinema-x86-1512955-msvc2010--black-edition-mod.html

Ger

28th February 2011, 19:50

http://www.xvidvideo.ru/component/docman/doc_details/5441-media-player-classic-homecinema-x86-1512955-msvc2010--black-edition-mod.html

What is this? To me it looks like code from one of bobdynlan's older builds (since it's missing several features/button mods from his later builds), but with a recent MPC-HC (r2955) base. Would that be a correct observation?

Karina

28th February 2011, 20:13

collected at the source code of the first version bobdynlan
hidden panel Ctrl+0

Hypernova

28th February 2011, 20:23

collected at the source code of the first version bobdynlan
hidden panel Ctrl+0

Thanks Karina. I like bobdynlan's work so much that I got stuck on the old build for a long time. I think he's still working on it in his free time though.

Hopefully you asked for his permission (if needed) and everything.

:thanks:

Karina

28th February 2011, 20:40

Tonight will be assembled with new icons
http://imglink.ru/thumbnails/28-02-11/86628ce44ebb1758f7db13a5950051ff.jpg (http://imglink.ru/show-image.php?id=82ddca954f264877145021fa904d9719)

ramicio

28th February 2011, 20:51

If they were going to make the GUI modern then it would be called "Media Player Home Cinema." The Classic is thrown in there to emulate Windows XP coming with its old media player as a backup. It will and should always stay the same looking. Isn't the source code there? You could code your own.

burfadel

1st March 2011, 00:12

I completely disagree with that, having it so old looking makes new users think its outdated and underdeveloped, and quite honestly it looks... crap! Even the term 'classic' shouldn't be there anymore, as it suggests to people 'classic' as in functionality, NOT 'classic' as for the look of the interface.

There is absolutely no need to retain the current interface, unless the aim of the interface is to put off new users! Changing the interface to something that looks in place with the rest of Windows 7 isn't going against the philosophy of the programme, as long as it doesn't become slow, crashy, and bloated in the process. I'd actually say its detrimental to the programme to retain its current interface, because it needs new users to survive. MPC-HC already looks very out of place on Windows 7. We're not suggesting a radical design change here, the player window could have the same layout as it does now, just with fresh larger '3d'? buttons, and the button background being rejuvenated.

It would be unfortunate for people to be put off from MPC-HC and move to VLC simply because there are a few people insisting on keeping an interface that looks so out of place and dated on Windows 7 its not funny!...

Realistically, the changes to the interface as people have suggested on here if anything, aren't big enough! Ideally the programme should look good enough for people to want to use it, not just have to use it simply because under the hood its the best choice out there.

You could have everything from a new model say, Audi R8 and have it in the shell of a 1970's car (a pretty ordinary 1970's car at that, and one which looks worn), and people won't see the good features of the car, all they will see is the 1970's car. Even if they knew the underlying car was brilliant, they wouldn't get past the fact that it looks old, and dated. No matter how good the car is, they wouldn't get past the fact that it looks old and crappy. The same goes with MPC-HC, you have this 'brilliant car' stuck in an ancient shell.

Midzuki

1st March 2011, 03:24

mr.duck

1st March 2011, 03:48

MPC-HC is without fat and bloat. Fast and powerful. It is function over form. The look should be improved so long as the same spirit remains. Make it look better so long as it doesn't damage ease of use or functionality in any way. That sort of thing. It shouldn't be complicated. Clean, lean and crisp interface using MPC for inspiration.

Dark Eiri

1st March 2011, 04:55

Just update the controls to Windows 7 style. That would make it prettier without adding any bloat to it.

burfadel

1st March 2011, 06:33

@ burfadel:

I agree, the GUI of MPC-HC could/should be somewhat "improved", but...
*how much*? — or, *in which direction*?

I know, many/most people think Windows 7's "default look" is shiny and cool, however many/most "oldschoolers" think otherwise — that is to say, Windows 7's native look is a gayish festival of bells and whistles. :)

I believe it should be updated more than just changing the colour of the buttons etc, like some of the toolbar mods available, but not to the point where the player feels 'plastic'.

MPC-HC is without fat and bloat. Fast and powerful. It is function over form. The look should be improved so long as the same spirit remains. Make it look better so long as it doesn't damage ease of use or functionality in any way. That sort of thing. It shouldn't be complicated. Clean, lean and crisp interface using MPC for inspiration.

I agree with that totally, and a change is not just a nicety, it is soon becoming a necessity. Since the player already has a very, very basic skinnable system, maybe an extension of this system should be done so that you can have the 'normal' new look MPC, and have a slightly updated 'old look' still available for those still thinking its 1995 :D

Karina

1st March 2011, 08:40

version with new icons
http://imglink.ru/thumbnails/28-02-11/86628ce44ebb1758f7db13a5950051ff.jpg (http://imglink.ru/show-image.php?id=82ddca954f264877145021fa904d9719)

http://www.xvidvideo.ru/component/docman/doc_details/5459-media-player-classic-homecinema-x86-1512956-msvc2010--be-mod-with-installer.html
http://www.xvidvideo.ru/component/docman/doc_details/5457-media-player-classic-homecinema-x86-1512956-msvc2010--be-mod-without-installer.html

GrofLuigi

1st March 2011, 15:16

I told myself I won't reply about this anymore, here or in another place, because obviously I'm a minority, but I just want to explain my position (of a conservative :devil:) since I see it's grossly misunderstood. I can't speak for anyone else, I can only hope they have similar reasoning. And, mostly of this pertains to other programs and OSes, while MPC-HC being only a small part.

I'm a strong believer in functionality over make-up. I use a program because it allows me to do something, not to look at it. I'd use a screensaver or an art picture for that.

A button is a button. You can make it circular, square and few other shapes.

A bar is a bar. It can be only one shape.

There are well known symbols for play, pause, ff, rew, etc. It's all been thought before.

You can represent a film strip or clapper board in only few basic ways.

etc. etc.

There are some ways you can 'pretty' them up (rotate, add gradients, fake 3d borders or transparency...), but soon that will get 'old' with most users too. And you have pretty much wasted your time and resources with something that was of no use to you. It's favourable for paid software makers, because they can keep selling basically the same thing, but for such a project, starved for developers and other resources, I think it would be suicide to start chasing the latest fashion. Also it would practically guarantee unnecessary quarels and forking. Not there aren't any now, but it's a commintment to another (quite big) area to maintain.

Another matter is if some paradigm shift of user interface controls appeared (gestures, touch... ?) Then I think it would be necessary to add it, if enough users request it.

But so much ado about such skin deep issue? (yeah, bad pun :p) I can't justify even my time lost writing this. I would accept any change, just to stop all the complaints, but I'm afraid (and pretty sure) they will never go away.

The only possible solution, as I see it, is to add full skinning system. OK, get done with it and let's get over with so we can return to DXVA and driver incompatibilites...

GL

mr.duck

1st March 2011, 17:31

Foobar2000 has a great plugin system. Everything in a plugin, even the default UI. MPC-HC could support the use of an external interface/skin for customization?

@GrofLuigi... I agree mostly with you. But think of Windows 2000 vs Windows 7 interface. Functionality is the same. With windows, a start menu, a clock in the bottom right. But it looks much better and you wouldn't want to go back after getting used to Windows 7. It is a much nicer place to be. Like working in a brand new, modern building can make you more happy compared to working in an ugly concrete block. We are not talking about changing a few icons. That's not going to make it better. Just talking about changing it so it is no longer grey and old looking like it came with Windows 95.

ramicio

1st March 2011, 18:32

Anyone who knows anything about computers knows not to judge a book by its cover. It's not outdated and old, it's simple. Simple is always better for the people who care about accurate results. It's not a product, it's free.

Take a look at picture software that commonly comes with computers. It's all bubbly, cutesy-looking, and pretty. Then look at Photoshop. The cheap crap will appear to be better, and to the dumbed down computer illiterate, will serve them just fine. But for anyone who NEEDS something that functions uses Photoshop, and no one has ever cared about how Photoshop looks. It serves a purpose, to do a job. I'd say it's even better done because it is very very clean and organized.

Who cares how a video player looks? Most people watch their video in full screen anyway. If you want to make your MPC-HC look pretty, code your own! If the default look for MPC-HC ever changes I will not update it anymore.

Dark Eiri

2nd March 2011, 00:40

But there are different kinds of simple: foobar2000 is simple, but is still looks consistent with a modern OS. MPC-HC looks extremely out of place in Windows 7 with it's Windows 9x controls. It looks 15 years old.
I'm all for function over looks but there must be a limit for it.

Take a look at picture software that commonly comes with computers. It's all bubbly, cutesy-looking, and pretty. Then look at Photoshop. The cheap crap will appear to be better, and to the dumbed down computer illiterate, will serve them just fine. But for anyone who NEEDS something that functions uses Photoshop, and no one has ever cared about how Photoshop looks. It serves a purpose, to do a job. I'd say it's even better done because it is very very clean and organized..

CS5 is actually REALLY good looking. Actually, since 8.0 CS, it's been really pretty to look, if you're familiar with older versions.

burfadel

2nd March 2011, 02:00

To all those saying functionality rules over a nice GUI, I'm not saying that you should fore'go functionality for the GUI, I'm just suggesting that the GUI should be made to be something pleasant to look at (and easy to use with bigger buttons) than something which you tolerate just because you want to access the programmes functionality.

Back to the car example, you can have the best, most 'functional' car, but if it looks like crap nobody will want it, and MPC-HC is already at that point. Most users don't know good functionality, and MPC-HC does require setting up to make full use of that functionality. People tend towards VLC because it at least looks like its not 15 years outdated. For MPC-HC to survive in the long run, it does desperately need to be modernised.

I also see there's a thread about OS X and MPC-HC. So, those claiming that it should remain how it is to stay 'classic', what do you think of that? The old WMP was never on OS X! ;)

tetsuo55

2nd March 2011, 11:01

@ALL:
Please keep in mind that we are completely open to a modular gui system that allows people to customise the gui in any way they want. Just like foobar2000 has.

However one of you will have to make this possible by writing the code for that.

ramicio

2nd March 2011, 19:16

Foobar2000 is the same kind of style as MPC! Grey, simple. Foobar is also a mess. So disorganized, and it's not very useful. To me, it's something that difficult people like. The kind of people who have a compulsive need to use command lines to do everything. The same kind of people who strive to use Linux as a usable PC for media. Photoshop has been and always will be the same basic UI, plain grey with black text.

Anyone who buys software for the purpose of making a product doesn't care about how the software looks. They care that it's organized and makes a good final product. Anyone who buys software for something cool to look at are the kind of people who use cheap software that decides what is good for the user and offers no input for settings, the fewest steps possible, for quick results.

This is why I never understood why people take pride in their wallpapers. I don't even have any icons on my desktop, and it's black. I'm not for disallowing modifications, but I don't think the quality of the software should ever lose focus to people wanting looks. The default look should stay.

Astrophizz

3rd March 2011, 03:09

Who says a change in looks would have to affect functionality/quality? I don't think that's a very good argument.

mr.duck

3rd March 2011, 04:11

If you have windows 7 try playing a video in windows media player. The blue seek bar thing looks nice and could be shamelessly copied for MPC HC. Keep functionality the same. Keep dimensions the same. Just change the interface to make it more pleasant to look at. It is a media player after all so some people do care what it looks like as you do sit there staring at it.

ranpha

3rd March 2011, 06:16

Hypernova

3rd March 2011, 07:29

People would taken your view more seriously if you don't use WMP12 as an example.

And as I said before in this thread, I actually like WMP12 video playing UI the most of all players I've used. I must emphasized that I mean the playing UI only, not the library UI.

I kind of understand those who prefer the old school look. That said, as tetsuo555 mentioned, there is no one working on GUI, except the bobdynlan's work. I think he's still working on it. When he is done (to some extend), I suggest we have a vote on 1. If this should be applied to main SVN, and 2. If this should be the default UI.

mr.duck

3rd March 2011, 16:10

People would taken your view more seriously if you don't use WMP12 as an example.

I am just talking about the seekbar here. It's blue. What's wrong with it? I would never want to use WMP12 over MPC. I am just talking about the color of the seekbar.

ranpha

3rd March 2011, 16:18

I am just talking about the seekbar here. It's blue. What's wrong with it? I would never want to use WMP12 over MPC. I am just talking about the color of the seekbar.

So apparently because WMP12 seekbar color is blue, MPC-HC has to emulate it?

mr.duck

3rd March 2011, 16:20

So apparently because WMP12 seekbar color is blue, MPC-HC has to emulate it?

Has to? No. Don't you think it looks nice?

ranpha

3rd March 2011, 17:02

Has to? No. Don't you think it looks nice?

It doesn't really look better than MPC-HC seekbar, it just look different.

burfadel

4th March 2011, 03:00

mr.duck

4th March 2011, 03:07

I don't like WMP12 design where the controls are on the video and fade in and out to use them. That looks nice but that's style over function. Just to be clear, I was meaning to keep MPC physically identical in terms of layout and dimensions. Just improve the look. But if you can have the option to revert back to the classic theme, then you can do whatever the hell you want because people that don't like it can just change it back.

ranpha

4th March 2011, 03:53

I'd have to agree the WMP seekbar and buttons do look far superior, and you'll find most people (in general, not those that are members of this forum) would think so too. Afterall, it is in line with the overall Windows 7 theme, and there's not too many people in the public wanting the Windows 95 interface back over the flashyness of the Windows 7 one :)

Having a really nice, pleasant to look at GUI doesn't have to affect functionality or speed at all... If a few coloured buttons slows down your computer I'm not sure how it can actually display the picture properly :D

In all seriousness, the suggestion of having something similar to the WMP design isn't a bad one at all. It can still retain its name too, 'classic' referring to the way you use it.

Anecdotal evidence. I also knows a lot of people that are not members of this forum that appreciate the speed of MPC-HC over WMP12, and also the superior functionality and flexibility MPC-HC also has. Should I extrapolate on that tiny amount of data?

WMP in general has always been known to have broken and unintuitive GUIs. WMP12 is no exception.

You say that nice and pleasant GUI doesn't affect functionality and speed at all. Well then, can you direct to me a video player that has flashy GUI but is also as fast and functional as MPC-HC is? KMPlayer is probably the only one come closest to it, and you people knows the reason why right?

I don't like WMP12 design where the controls are on the video and fade in and out to use them. That looks nice but that's style over function. Just to be clear, I was meaning to keep MPC physically identical in terms of layout and dimensions. Just improve the look. But if you can have the option to revert back to the classic theme, then you can do whatever the hell you want because people that don't like it can just change it back.

You mean, *change* the look? Because if WMP12 seekbar is your reference, I can't say MPC-HC will improve if the development team copied it.

Well, if you people really want transparent MPC-HC, you can do so with the help of third-party tools.

http://thumbnails24.imagebam.com/12203/d0d892122024463.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/d0d892122024463)

burfadel

4th March 2011, 03:59

@mr.duck - That makes sense, as long as the new design looks great and functionality isn't repaired, it would make the player massively more attractive to use.

Transparency has to be done right to look good. The standard Windows 7 title bars look good (the very top window frame of the programme, including MPC-HC frame), that pic looks absolutely crap! (I know that was your intention). Firstly, the transparency would't be behind the play window, it wouldn't apply to the buttons (only the button backgrounds), and more importantly, you wouldn't even apply transparency! The thing you need is alpha blending, and to be I think the Windows 7 application of it looks really good. Look at the start meny with the pane on the right, you have an alpha blended window that looks good over any surface. If MPC-HC were to have an alpha blended background in the controls area, it should be along the same darkness and colour as that (either dark grey or blue).

mr.duck

4th March 2011, 12:34

WMP in general has always been known to have broken and unintuitive GUIs. WMP12 is no exception.
You are not understanding correctly. Here is my MPC-HC as it is right now...

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/145/mpcq.png

Here is my suggestion with a crude mock up in MS paint to illustrate it...

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/430/newmpc.png

burfadel

4th March 2011, 16:00

Not too bad, with a slightly thicker seek bar, a filled progress bar, and a definitive current play point (not just the progression of the progress bar ending and blackness starting)...

Imagine the above with an alpha blended background to that progress bar, and that horizontal line not being there, or a different colour :)

The area that is alpha blended can be a solid colour when not using 'aero composition', or just have a toggle in the meny to turn alpha blending on and off, if the player went along those lines.

Main thing to keep in mind is whether MPC-HC is to be used by a few hundred people that like the functionality, or several thousand+ that actually find it attractive to look at, and modern too. If it had Windows 7 stylings people are much more likely to think its something good to use.

ramicio

4th March 2011, 16:18

The first picture...there is an actual object to click on and drag. When you just have a bar that gets filled with pixels, like the bottom picture, it's much more difficult to work, as it becomes a click-to-where-you-want-to-go game. No one said anything about sacrificed speed or functionality with a better looking GUI, we just mean that focusing on making the software 100% bug free is the priority now, and that would not be the case if they chose to then focus on making a minority of people happy with a better GUI (which is still just opinion.)

ranpha

4th March 2011, 16:20

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/430/newmpc.png

This sir, is ugly. The default one looks better. Sorry, but copying WMP12 broken GUIs is not something MPC-HC should do.

mr.duck

4th March 2011, 19:17

The first picture...there is an actual object to click on and drag. When you just have a bar that gets filled with pixels, like the bottom picture, it's much more difficult to work

I didn't think it would cause all this confusion. Just load up WMP12 and see for yourself. You can click and drag it. It works fine!! Look...

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/7971/wmp12.png

This sir, is ugly. The default one looks better. Sorry, but copying WMP12 broken GUIs is not something MPC-HC should do.
Now I know you are just being awkward because you don't want the GUI to change. Back again you are going on about WMP broken GUI. This is just the seek bar we are talking about here. In what way is it broken or ugly? Do try and use your imagination a bit. I said it was crude. I can't copy it from when it is playing a video because there would be the video showing behind the seekbar.

Since the original MPC was based on windows media player for looks, I think it would be very fitting for MPC-HC to take style cues from the current gen WMP :) I was very careful when I made my suggestion that it doesn't impact usability or function in a negative way. I hope I have demonstrated that now.

ranpha

4th March 2011, 20:54

Now I know you are just being awkward because you don't want the GUI to change. Back again you are going on about WMP broken GUI. This is just the seek bar we are talking about here. In what way is it broken or ugly? Do try and use your imagination a bit. I said it was crude. I can't copy it from when it is playing a video because there would be the video showing behind the seekbar.

Since the original MPC was based on windows media player for looks, I think it would be very fitting for MPC-HC to take style cues from the current gen WMP :) I was very careful when I made my suggestion that it doesn't impact usability or function in a negative way. I hope I have demonstrated that now.

WMP has broken GUIs, for at least the past 5 years at least. And as for the WMP12 seekbar, it is not better than the one that MPC-HC has, but only different. Definitely not better for sure. If you want to 'improve' MPC-HC seekbar, why copy WMP12 seekbar? At least, copy the Splash Player seekbar, which is far more functional and actually is an improvement. As it is now, you cannot say that WMP12 seekbar is better than MPC-HC seekbar, you doesn't have any demonstrable proof for that. Do not change something just for the sake of it.

ramicio

4th March 2011, 21:11

My bad, I didn't know that blue piece was a slider, I thought it was more along the lines of a filling progress bar.

mr.duck

4th March 2011, 21:22

mr.duck

4th March 2011, 21:24

My bad, I didn't know that blue piece was a slider, I thought it was more along the lines of a filling progress bar.

You have to hover over it or click for that little tablet thing to show up. That's why it looked missing in the mock up I did. Better if it was there all the time IMO.

ranpha

5th March 2011, 01:57

And yet, in what way is the seekbar broken or ugly? Ok so you say it is just different and not better. That's a start. So you admit it doesn't look worse. But you can not come up with any explanation as to why it is broken, or if it was copied for MPC-HC, no explanation of how it would impact usability or function in a negative way. Therefore, I say I have indeed demonstrated successfully that it is a solid idea.

It is purely a style thing. Not changing the way the seekbar functions, just changing the way it looks.

If it wasn't better, why copy it? Splash Player seekbar is superior to what WMP/MPC-HC has, and that's what should be copied. The developers doesn't need to waste their time moving sideways just to implement a new seekbar (copied from WMP12) that doesn't even perform better than the one MPC-HC has.

I have never said the seekbar looks worse, it is just different. WMP12 GUIs is broken though, that's for sure. I believe that you cannot demonstrate how WMP12 seekbar would be superior than MPC-HC's, so we would leave it at that. If the seekbar needs to be changed, change it for a better one. Changing it to a different one isn't improvement and is a waste of time and effort. WMP12 seekbar is not a better seekbar, Splash Player seekbar is a better seekbar. But to copy that seekbar, not only the GUI, but the internal splitters needs a big overhaul, therefore I won't expect the developers to do so.

MPC-HC has nothing to learn from WMP12. Nothing at all.

burfadel

5th March 2011, 03:43

I didn't think it would cause all this confusion. Just load up WMP12 and see for yourself. You can click and drag it. It works fine!! Look...

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/7971/wmp12.png

Now I know you are just being awkward because you don't want the GUI to change. Back again you are going on about WMP broken GUI. This is just the seek bar we are talking about here. In what way is it broken or ugly? Do try and use your imagination a bit. I said it was crude. I can't copy it from when it is playing a video because there would be the video showing behind the seekbar.

Since the original MPC was based on windows media player for looks, I think it would be very fitting for MPC-HC to take style cues from the current gen WMP :) I was very careful when I made my suggestion that it doesn't impact usability or function in a negative way. I hope I have demonstrated that now.

Kind of along the lines of like in the pic, the alpha-blending looks excellent, even on poor backgrounds (for transparency) like it appears like you have there. For those saying don't take design cues because WMP has a broken UI, the simple thing is... don't copy those elements! Instead, you can fix them. I think a thicker seek bar woudl be better, and a thicker endpoint, maybe even in a different colour (green?, but with the same shading styling, definitely not solid), that way there is no confusion where the seekbar is at. I guess if you pause it, that end button could go yellow, and when not playing anything (stopped), red? just an idea.

ranpha

5th March 2011, 06:24

Kind of along the lines of like in the pic, the alpha-blending looks excellent, even on poor backgrounds (for transparency) like it appears like you have there. For those saying don't take design cues because WMP has a broken UI, the simple thing is... don't copy those elements! Instead, you can fix them. I think a thicker seek bar woudl be better, and a thicker endpoint, maybe even in a different colour (green?, but with the same shading styling, definitely not solid), that way there is no confusion where the seekbar is at. I guess if you pause it, that end button could go yellow, and when not playing anything (stopped), red? just an idea.

MPC-HC seekbar is already thicker than what WMP12 has. It already has a fully visible progress indicator. Color? That's more of personal preference. The current white is pretty OK for me. As for transparency, you can already do that with third-party tools if that's your thing. Not my thing though.

burfadel

5th March 2011, 10:33

Transparency and alpha blending is different. alpha blending is like the windows 7 taskbard, and programme window frames (especially the top bar). transparency can look really crap! When I wrote that, I was referring to what could be better with the WMP pic, I realised re-reading that it might cause some confusion :)

Alpha-blending isn't a necessity for the media player, its just a nicety to appeal to users and it can be turned off :)

ranpha

5th March 2011, 17:33

mr.duck

5th March 2011, 17:43

If it wasn't better, why copy it?
Because it looks better and is desirable.

I believe that you cannot demonstrate how WMP12 seekbar would be superior than MPC-HC's
It would be functionally the same but look better which would make it an improvement.

Who here has Windows 7 and disables aero glass because it isn't better, just 'different' ? ...No one? Oh wait, just you, ranpha ;)

This shows better what I had in mind...

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8862/mpccopy.png

I tried making it bigger but didn't look right. It is a copy paste job from WMP12. Anyone but ranpha have anything bad to say about it with an explanation?

ranpha

6th March 2011, 01:26

Because it looks better and is desirable.

It would be functionally the same but look better which would make it an improvement.

Who here has Windows 7 and disables aero glass because it isn't better, just 'different' ? ...No one? Oh wait, just you, ranpha ;)

This shows better what I had in mind...

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8862/mpccopy.png

I tried making it bigger but didn't look right. It is a copy paste job from WMP12. Anyone but ranpha have anything bad to say about it with an explanation?

It looks better and desirable? Maybe it is just you. For me, it doesn't look better, it just looks different. I definitely doesn't desire a seekbar that isn't an improvement.

How about showing how WMP12 seekbar is superior to MPC-HC seekbar next time please. You know, like how Splash Player seekbar is superior to what MPC-HC has?

http://i.min.us/il6Z76.jpg

Now this is a feature that deserved to be copied (better than WMP12 and MPC-HC for sure). That would be a huge undertaking though, therefore I would not ask the developers to do it.

mr.duck

6th March 2011, 03:53

How about showing how WMP12 seekbar is superior to MPC-HC seekbar next time please.
See...
It would be functionally the same but look better which would make it an improvement.

Now this is a feature that deserved to be copied
Not interested... Chintzy (gaudy and tasteless).

ranpha

6th March 2011, 04:07

Prove to me that it looks better. You can't.

Splash Player seekbar doesn't look better than MPC-HC seekbar either, but it is more functional. Calling it gaudy proves that you prioritize looks over functions.

If there are no improvement function-wise, there are no reason at all to copy WMP12 seekbar. It may look better to you, but can you say that for all people that uses MPC-HC/WMP12? Or even amjority of them.

mr.duck

6th March 2011, 16:24

Prove to me that it looks better.
No.

Splash Player seekbar doesn't look better than MPC-HC seekbar either, but it is more functional. Calling it gaudy proves that you prioritize looks over functions.
It proves I do not want to look at that hideous mess of a GUI for features that I do not care about. Call me old fashioned, but I like my seekbar to be a just a seekbar. MPC-HC's seekbar is already perfect in function. I doubt you can improve upon it, but do have a go if you can.

If there are no improvement function-wise, there are no reason at all to copy WMP12 seekbar. It may look better to you, but can you say that for all people that uses MPC-HC/WMP12? Or even amjority of them.
I will answer your point the same as before. The reason to copy it is to look better. Please try and make note of that. I am getting a little tired of repeating myself. And yes. I can say that the majority of people will like it. I do have a sense of taste you know.

ranpha

6th March 2011, 17:26

It proves I do not want to look at that hideous mess of a GUI for features that I do not care about. Call me old fashioned, but I like my seekbar to be a just a seekbar. MPC-HC's seekbar is already perfect in function. I doubt you can improve upon it, but do have a go if you can.

I will answer your point the same as before. The reason to copy it is to look better. Please try and make note of that. I am getting a little tired of repeating myself. And yes. I can say that the majority of people will like it. I do have a sense of taste you know.

Splash Player seekbar has that mini-preview function, which neither MPC-HC or WMP12 doesn't have. That alone makes it better than what those two players has. It wasn't the look that makes Splash Player seekbar better, it was the extra functionality that makes it better. In fact, I didn't know any other player that has similar functions.

And it is only you who think that WMP12 seekbar looks better. For me, it doesn't look better, it is just different. And let me repeat this again: There are no reason whatsoever for MPC-HC to copy WMP12 seekbar at all. It doesn't look better. And here's the kicker, I can say that the majority of people will agree with me. I do have a sense of functionality you know. At least, if the seekbar need to be changed, at least do it for a better one. WMP12 seekbar is not better than what MPC-HC currently has.

mr.duck

6th March 2011, 17:36

Splash Player seekbar has that mini-preview function, which neither MPC-HC or WMP12 doesn't have. That alone makes it better than what those two players
Don't care / not interested / makes it worse / bloatware.

There are no reason whatsoever for MPC-HC to copy WMP12 seekbar at all.
Yes there is. It is to improve the look of the interface to make it more pleasant to look at.

I do have a sense of functionality you know.
Hey me too :). That's why I kept functionality the same in my suggestion so as not to impede usability as your suggestion does.

ranpha

6th March 2011, 17:42

Don't care / not interested / makes it worse / bloatware.

Therefore, I am right to say that you prefer look over function earlier.

Yes there is. It is to improve the look of the interface to make it more pleasant to look at.

Only you says that WMP12 looks better. Do you think everyone shares your view? I dare say the answer is no. WMP12 seekbar doesn't look better to my eyes, and as I say before, you won't be able to prove it empirically.

Hey me too . That's why I kept functionality the same in my suggestion so as not to impede usability as your suggestion does.

My suggestion actually improves functionality. Yours doesn't.

mr.duck

6th March 2011, 18:10

Therefore, I am right to say that you prefer look over function earlier.
No you're not. See...
It proves I do not want to look at that hideous mess of a GUI for features that I do not care about. Call me old fashioned, but I like my seekbar to be a just a seekbar. MPC-HC's seekbar is already perfect in function. I doubt you can improve upon it, but do have a go if you can.

Only you says that WMP12 looks better. Do you think everyone shares your view? I dare say the answer is no.
No big deal. Probably it is trivial to add an option to keep the old, classic seekbar.

WMP12 seekbar doesn't look better to my eyes, and as I say before, you won't be able to prove it empirically.
Hmmm. Should I at least try to prove it? For my answer, see...
No.

My suggestion actually improves functionality. Yours doesn't.
Agreed. That was rather my point. *rollseyes*

And you you still were not yet able to answer my question. You insisted that the WMP12 seekbar is broken. In what way is it broken?

ranpha

6th March 2011, 18:26

No you're not. See...

But when I say that MPC-HC should copy Splash Player seekbar that ACTUALLY ADDS FUNCTIONALITY, you resist. Hmm...

Yet, you

No big deal. Probably it is trivial to add an option to keep the old, classic seekbar.

Even it Splash Player, the SmartSeek function is optional you know.

Hmmm. Should I at least try to prove it? For my answer, see...

Oh you cannot prove it empirically after all.

Meanwhile, I can easily prove that Splash Player seekbar is better, by just pointing to the SmartSeek feature. Which seems to be exclusive only for it, and is optional.

And you you still were not yet able to answer my question. You insisted that the WMP12 seekbar is broken. In what way is it broken?

Did I say the WMP12 seekbar is broken?

What I have said were:-

- WMP12 seekbar is different, and not better.
- Meanwhile, WMP12 GUIs as a whole is broken beyond help.

Therefore, it is waste of developers time and energy just to reimplement a new seekbar that doesn't even universally accepted to be aesthetically better than MPC-HC current seekbar. If it adds new functionality, then I don't mind. But it doesn't, therefore the developers are better off spending their time fixing decoder bugs (the latest stable build seems to have some DXVA problems with ATI GPUs) than reimplementing a new seekbar that doesn't improve functionality.

mr.duck

6th March 2011, 22:28

In your opinion, mind.

mr.duck

6th March 2011, 22:45

Just installed Splash Player. The seekbar is even worse than MPC or WMP12. It makes me sad that you would try and ruin the MPC-HC project with this bloat and bad design, ranpha. Shame on you.

For others, Splash Player is your typical commercial bloatware which is all the beauty is only skin deep. It wouldn't even deinterlace the video and there is only very basic control over the options. It is dumbed down trying to get $19.99 out of dumb users that don't know any better.

ranpha

7th March 2011, 01:33

In your opinion, mind.

So, stop putting words in my mouth that I said WMP12 seekbar is broken. Just go see my past posts in this thread (I don't edit them) and quote me then.

Just installed Splash Player. The seekbar is even worse than MPC or WMP12. It makes me sad that you would try and ruin the MPC-HC project with this bloat and bad design, ranpha. Shame on you.

For others, Splash Player is your typical commercial bloatware which is all the beauty is only skin deep. It wouldn't even deinterlace the video and there is only very basic control over the options. It is dumbed down trying to get $19.99 out of dumb users that don't know any better.

Huh? Splash Player is at least less bloated than WMP12 ever will be. It can deinterlace videos easily (on GPU), the fact that you said that it wouldn't sums everything about your knowledge of media players really.

As for design, it wasn't the best (definitely not better than MPC-HC is), but at least is less confusing than WMP12 can ever be. It also has features that WMP12 or MPC-HC doesn't have, such as the motion interpolation and/or frame doubler and HD audio bitstreaming, which MPC-HC doesn't have built-in (you will need third-party tools) and WMP12 will never have.

And of course, that seekbar. If there is something Splash Player has that is FUNCTIONALLY SUPERIOR (and not aesthetically) than either MPC-HC or WMP12 is, it is the SmartSeek seekbar. The ability to preview videos before scrubbing is definitely a nice feature to have, and it is optional too.

mr.duck

7th March 2011, 02:03

So, stop putting words in my mouth that I said WMP12 seekbar is broken. Just go see my past posts in this thread (I don't edit them) and quote me then.
We were discussing the seekbar only and you repeatedly said things like WMP has always had broken and unintuitive GUIs. So it's your own fault lol.

Huh? Splash Player is at least less bloated than WMP12 ever will be. It can deinterlace videos easily (on GPU), the fact that you said that it wouldn't sums everything about your knowledge of media players really.
Yup sure. I can't believe you paid $19.99 for the pro version. No wonder you are mad lol.

As for design, it wasn't the best (definitely not better than MPC-HC is), but at least is less confusing than WMP12 can ever be. It also has features that WMP12 or MPC-HC doesn't have, such as the motion interpolation and/or frame doubler and HD audio bitstreaming, which MPC-HC doesn't have built-in (you will need third-party tools) and WMP12 will never have.
Cool! Sounds super awesome! I wish I could have that. But as you say, my knowledge of media players is too low :'(

And of course, that seekbar. If there is something Splash Player has that is FUNCTIONALLY SUPERIOR
No it isn't. I tried it.

ranpha

7th March 2011, 02:23

We were discussing the seekbar only and you repeatedly said things like WMP has always had broken and unintuitive GUIs. So it's your own fault lol.

Yet, you want to accuse me of saying that WMP12 seekbar is broken, when clearly I do not.

Yup sure. I can't believe you paid $19.99 for the pro version. No wonder you are mad lol.

Cool! Sounds super awesome! I wish I could have that. But as you say, my knowledge of media players is too low :'(

It has a trial you know. Plus, there are other methods...

And I don't really see you disproving my assertion that it can do pixel-adaptive hardware deinterlacing. That disproves your assertion that Splash Player cannot do.

Next time, if you want to make false accusations (like accusing me of saying 'WMP12 seekbar is broken' or 'Splash Player doesn't do deinterlacing'), how about doing some fact-checking first?

No it isn't. I tried it.

So apparently you think the Smartseek isn't a feature. At least I can quantify that Splash Player seekbar has extra features in it.
Can you say the same thing about WMP12 seekbar, that looks beautiful to your eyes only? That you want MPC-HC to copy?

At least I won't insist MPC-HC developers to copy Splash Player seekbar (the internal splitters needs to be fixed too for that to happen - which is a huge undertaking).

mr.duck

7th March 2011, 02:27

I'm confused. What point are you trying to make?

ranpha

7th March 2011, 02:32

I'm confused. What point are you trying to make?

Let me repeat what I say then. If there are no new functionality, do not replace the seekbar. That's about it. Replacing it because of a reason like 'WMP12 seekbar look better and desirable' is a waste of time, considering other bugs in MPC-HC.

Developers are better off fixing the 10-bit/floating point renderer issues (or maybe, give EVR custom presenter a proper 2-pass bicubic upscaler) is better than a brand new seekbar that doesn't have a new functionality.

After all, what looks good for you doesn't mean it looks good for everyone else.

mr.duck

7th March 2011, 02:39

But this is a GUI discussion thread. Not what we think the developers should be working on thread.

ranpha

7th March 2011, 02:50

But this is a GUI discussion thread. Not what we think the developers should be working on thread.

But developers are theone who will work on whatever you want. Their resources is limited. Here, I am pretty damn sure I want them to work on non-GUI issues like what I mentioned in the last post that is more pressing than 'copying WMP12 seekbar that looks better and desirable' but doesn't add on functionality.

If I have to choose between:-

a. superior image quality during video playback.
b. 'better' looking seekbar ripped straight from WMP12.

the choice is obvious.

Remember, developers' resources are limited.

burfadel

7th March 2011, 03:21

While I do agree with Ranpha to a degree, it depends on what you want MPC to be. If you want it to be a player used by a few people who like the functionality on Doom9, then the interface is fine. However, for the typical user, an attractive media player is important, then that way more people can take advantage of the image quality (with advanced settings at one point possibly becoming reliable enough to be made default)...

ranpha

7th March 2011, 04:08

Well, if aesthetic interface is really important, there is PotPlayer, that is fully skinnable, and has almost everything MPC-HC has except decent subtitle engine that is usable with DXVA. There is a thread about it here in doom9 too, therefore I think it is a valid alternative video player for those who want shiny GUI.

MPC-HC itself has their own share of problems that isn't related to the GUI I would like the developers to work on them. As of build 2903, the IQ for EVR custom presenter is still not up to par with madVR for example.

mr.duck

7th March 2011, 04:57

I won't be updating the GUI myself. Maybe some one else will that would not be fixing bugs anyway.

burfadel

7th March 2011, 11:37

jinsk8r

7th March 2011, 12:11

Windows 7 Taskbar Controls (WMP's defaults)

1. Download this PNG:
http://i61.servimg.com/u/f61/11/81/48/66/w7_too10.png

2. Use Restorator or ResHacker to edit mpc-hc.exe:
http://i61.servimg.com/u/f61/11/81/48/66/how_to10.png

3. Result:
http://i61.servimg.com/u/f61/11/81/48/66/taskba10.png

Link:
Restorator (http://www.bome.com/products/restorator)
Reshaker (http://www.angusj.com/resourcehacker/)

ranpha

7th March 2011, 12:16

If 'Windows 7 oriented designs' means those alpha-blending transparency, it can already be done with third-party programs, if you so choose. You can make your own toolbar.bmp if you don't like the default buttons and volume sliders. You can use 'Windows and Colors Appearance' toolset in Windows to change title-bar background color, typeface and fonts.

MPC-HC will not wither away just because of its default GUI. This programs is the default player in so many codec packs, it wasn't even funny. MPC-HC will only be abandoned if there are no developments in it happening, which doesn't seem to be the case for now. Rarely I seen people switching away from MPC-HC because of its GUI. More often than not, such things happened if MPC-HC doesn't have the functions they wants.

jinsk8r

7th March 2011, 12:28

Windows 7 Taskbar Controls (WMP12's default)

1. Download this PNG:
http://i61.servimg.com/u/f61/11/81/48/66/w7_too11.png

2. Download ResHacker (http://www.angusj.com/resourcehacker/) or Restorator (http://www.bome.com/products/restorator) and open "mpc-hc.exe" to replace the default one:
http://i61.servimg.com/u/f61/11/81/48/66/how_to11.png

3. Result:
http://i61.servimg.com/u/f61/11/81/48/66/taskba11.png

mr.duck

7th March 2011, 14:56

I wasn't suggesting the current developers work on the GUI, its something that can be done separately. In this thread we can throw around ideas of what it could look like, and work towards the basic layout. I'm sure there are people here that can put whats discussed into a working design. I'm not talking about basic buttons etc, I'm referring to more 'Windows 7' oriented designs and 'controls' usage.

We're not looking for a radical change, just something simple yet attractive and functional that won't be a put off to new users simply because its (in computer terms) ancient. Like ranpha said, there are other players that people would see as just as functional which are more modern looking, I just see the current interface as something which will greatly deter people from using it - it would be a shame for Mplayerc to wither away just because the interface meant few users using it.

Yes!!! Well that is what I was trying to show with my last mock up picture. That's impossible without someone actually writing the code and wherever needs doing.

I will link it again...
1) MPC-HC STOCK SCREENSHOT (http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/145/mpcq.png)
2) MPC-HC PROPOSED UPDATE MOCK-UP (http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8862/mpccopy.png)

It is specifically a visual change only so anyone willing to make something like this happen will not have to worry about coding any core functionality.

burfadel

7th March 2011, 15:15

Well, for the moment one of the current modded toolbars, or a new one, could be implemented. The timeframe for the new GUI would be quite a while I'd imagine, if one ever is implemented. Realistically though, consider what they're talking about with the new Windows 8 Gui, MPC-HC will look chronically outdated by then.

The argument about MPC-HC being in codec packs is a good point, however the average user can't distinguish between the very first build of the MPC-HC branch, and the latest (apart from the buildnumber). The problem is, there are people out there with 8 month old copies, 1.5 yr old copies, 3 yr old copies,... or even one of the original MPC, which depsite having lots of builds (dozens? more?) they all had identical version numbers!

I see a new GUI as away for everyone to get the latest MPC-HC, as it will be obvious! in the meantime, the toolbar update would be beneficial, especially if combined with a basic updater. Although belonging more to the normal discussion thread, I do see at least a toolbar update + updater as being beneficial. Remember, most people out there actually fully rely on auto-updates. If they didn't have autoupdates turned on, things simply wouldn't be updated.

bobdynlan

7th March 2011, 17:14

For those who did not see my old mod because of the drop.io shut down, here's one screenshot (click to open real size):
http://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1pUu0y8xRbSPw58Vz7FVuYzZI0O3yrBLINs-E_wVd9-7_vMe6OorpaBiBbBggyOoEntSpd-vFRk0CJlHSou7DJcg/dark_tron_mpchc.png?psid=1 (http://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1pUu0y8xRbSPw58Vz7FVuYzQoIE-WZHEP9CEdgMfDJDj83AUXkFhKgdJpJvrJNfX3EA_w9iHXnn22Aa7Vc-m49gQ/dark_tron_mpchc.png?psid=1)

And a recap to why i did it:
The reason I started on doing this was this: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1378249#post1378249
I never used the default light gray background from windows themes. Whenever I changed that from default, the toolbar buttons did not follow the colour setup in CP for 3d objects. So I had to use the hack of no xp-theming that fixed it, but made ugly buttons. My only complain about the default gui was this bug, and I have only wished for a dark background as a feature add. Hitting an wall on that, decided to fix it myself.

My goal was never to pimp it up with some fluffy bitmaps. It's not even hard to do that. Looking at the source code for the - awesome in it's simplicity - default volume control, motivated me to learn about custom draw, gdi and mfc in general. Well, it's not the ideal ide for media player gui creation. You can create bloated ribbon bars as easy as 1-2-3, but when it comes to things like a volume control, not even MS can do it well, look at the result in Windows 7, the slider does not even match colour with the triangular shape from the right side. MPC-HC is already filled with hacks in the gui area, and this makes a simple thing like choosing a darker solid colour background for the toolbar not trivial. You need to change source code in several places. Get around things like client and non-client areas, controls repositioning & etc.

One thing lead to another, but the deviations are slim.
You have to be esthetically blind to advocate the default mpc gui. Man has always surrounded himself with pleasant things, and almost everything he creates is beautiful, from an oil paint to a watermill, from a song to a math formula, from a cookie to a great dam - even if it's functionally useless and wastes resources.

Beauty is an indispensable drug for our souls. And like any drug, too much might actually hurt. When I look at "functional" software these days, I find the level of bloat to be disturbing. Most antivirus programs have guis far more "prettier" than mpc-hc has, but it should be the other way around as those should keep a simple gui.

And then there are programs that bloat the gui to hide the crap from under the hood - like fancy interface for some retarded batch scripts that steal all the credits deserved by the bundled open source command line tools - Made for suckers (TM). MPC-HC will not appeal to those...

Speaking of WMP12, all it's strengths faded out rather quick the first time I had contact with it because of the show-stopper pop-up volume control. I'm glad Microsoft listened and silently changed it into an always visible one. Now it stands out from the pack.
Windows 7 on the whole is less of a mess that Microsoft did with all those alternative looks inconsistencies. I highly recommend Classic Shell (http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/) (screenshot (http://z8v1ha.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1p1p-D-1Y4nEzFuneZKvrsaonO6qbxYOOBH17a3LPLLW14UuzRL0mJhtdZwsOYQS_oWCig7SzRbex9fqWX_PDPB1ryMIUMMI_o/win7classicshell.png?psid=1)) with it, for the added functionality, available choices and not the least, looks.

All this fighting against modification tends to discourage developers, but I intend to mod it again once the core code gets stabilized. You might dislike my acquired taste, but nobody will force you to use it.

tetsuo55

7th March 2011, 17:14

Just to be clear here.

MPC-HC does not have any active developers.
All patches committed are given to us by end-users.

This thread is intended to discuss how to get code into mpc-hc, code written by one of the many end users, that add's gui customisation to a level similar to foobar2000.

ranpha

7th March 2011, 19:31

You have to be esthetically blind to advocate the default mpc gui. Man has always surrounded himself with pleasant things, and almost everything he creates is beautiful, from an oil paint to a watermill, from a song to a math formula, from a cookie to a great dam - even if it's functionally useless and wastes resources.

Do you think that it is sumptuous for you to try and speak for the human race? There are plenty of people who want their application to just work perfectly. This really applies to applications like MPC-HC, where you spend 99% of your time watching videos than looking at the GUI.

Beauty is an indispensable drug for our souls. And like any drug, too much might actually hurt. When I look at "functional" software these days, I find the level of bloat to be disturbing. Most antivirus programs have guis far more "prettier" than mpc-hc has, but it should be the other way around as those should keep a simple gui.

The same should also apply for video players. What did you do with one? Watching movies would be the primary use for one. For that, GUI should be less important than programs like word processing or image manipulation.

Antivirus programs should also have less GUI because they are usually a TSR application.

Speaking of WMP12, all it's strengths faded out rather quick the first time I had contact with it because of the show-stopper pop-up volume control. I'm glad Microsoft listened and silently changed it into an always visible one. Now it stands out from the pack.

http://thumbnails34.imagebam.com/12261/d810cc122601114.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/d810cc122601114)

The above is the default look for WMP12. Sorry to say, but this interface is crap. Same can also be said for iTunes.

Standing out from the pack? Not for me. I don't think it is prudent for you to try to speak for the human race, unless you have empirical proof.

All this fighting against modification tends to discourage developers, but I intend to mod it again once the core code gets stabilized. You might dislike my acquired taste, but nobody will force you to use it.

Well, if you want to code it in, the said feature should be made optional. Even Splash Player SmartSeek seekbar feature is optional, that can be turned off if anyone doesn't like it.

ramicio

7th March 2011, 19:54

Use a different player, keep MPC-HC the same. What is aesthetically pleasing for one person doesn't mean it will be so for everyone. Every modded screenshot everyone has posted here is just ugly. I can speak for the human race and say that fewer people don't care how it looks now than there would be if idiots started making it all fluffy and modern-looking.

mr.duck

7th March 2011, 20:14

What other player is there apart from MPC HC that isn't junk?

Most you could not live with on a daily basis. Maybe zoom player is OK but is payware.

ramicio

7th March 2011, 20:19

If you rely on MPC's internal filters then you are screwed. Anything MPC does can easily be duplicated with Directshow filters (Haali, ffdshow.) I have MPC but I don't even rely on its internal filters. I use it to watch video, I don't look and stare at what my player looks like.

bobdynlan

7th March 2011, 22:26

You can't expect that the whole world stand still just because you don't like/are too afraid of/are incapable of changing your long time habits - even if it's about a keyboard shortcut that needs just a few days to get used to it. Rant all you want, but changes are inevitable (and most of the times beneficial to your brain). How many people are out there, still using Windows 9X? How about 2K? XP will fade out soon, too.

Like it or not, this piece of work (MPC-HC) addresses everybody, not just a few "elitists" that arrogated themselves the right to ban any attempt to "fluffy-lize" a little the default gui, while stating that the gui is not important, because most of the time they don't even look at it. Well I for one, don't have the luxury to watch a movie for a few hours without interruptions, so I do see the gui. And the default bars are burning my screen and my eyes. Anyway, at the current state it will not live on much more, because the competition is higher than ever these days.

Do you think that it is sumptuous for you to try and speak for the human race?

The above is the default look for WMP12. Sorry to say, but this interface is crap. Same can also be said for iTunes.

Standing out from the pack? Not for me. I don't think it is prudent for you to try to speak for the human race, unless you have empirical proof. I am not interested in a philosophical debate here or fueling trolling, but I will give a short answer:
- it's just my personal opinion, nursed from empirical proofs that I am a human being. This can go both ways if I ever need to predict, observe or define other human being's behaviors. For such common, axiomatic observations, there is no point in going to mathematical proofs but the evidence is there if needed. Anyway, I'm not trying to shut everyone up like you do...
- how many quotes from this thread do you need to get it that's not about WMP12's library mode? Rhetorical question

I can speak for the human race and say that fewer people don't care how it looks now than there would be if idiots started making it all fluffy and modern-looking. I hope you are referring exclusively to Made for suckers (TM) stuff. This is nothing new, it happened since the beginning of time in one way or another, from colored glass to tin foil hats or apple logos on a phone. You've got your facts reversed, the ones that buy the bad products are the idiots, not the creators. The sooner you understand that the vast majority of human beings are idiots (me included), the better.