MPC-HC GUI Discussion Thread

[leeperry]

I guess many people may think that's it's more important for an utility to look good rather than to have full working features.
since when can't a player do both? the main problem is that we're not in 1995 anymore, and yes the horrid GUI is unbearable to many ppl...which shouldn't matter as MPC is free anyway.

[leeperry]

The MPC-HC GUI is not horrid, only people that find it unbearable are the typical form over functionality people, who needs useless bloatware features like skins, gloss, transparency everywhere to distract them from the main purpose of watching videos.

If you need all those useless features, why not move now to WMP12/whatever player you can name? Everything is implemented there already, no need to wait.I don't need gloss or transparency, I just want a GUI that doesn't look like I'm on Windows 95 15 years ago(when I still had hair on top of my head).

I personally love the TMT3 skin, slick and efficient! it's available for many third party players now: http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/11/term4.jpg

Do you honestly find this GUI less attractive than WMP6.4? times are changing my friend.

[GreenEyez]

Yup, but the TMT3 interface has 2 flaws, the volume slider is hidden, and the background has 25 logos on it. Other than that, i agree, the GUI simple and practical with a nice modern design.

The best thing would be a theme repository, just like Media Browser and XMBC have, and themes should be aproved by the dev or developers.

[leeperry]

everyone has seen how you trolled the ffdshow-tryouts thread [..] if you turned off Aero, guess what? It looks like Windows Classic.
I run XPSP3, you'll have to explain me how to enable Aero http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/autobot.gif ...anyway, take care buddy, WMP6.4 is teh best of course http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/3/tristou.gif

[Keiyakusha]

you're willing to use KMPlayer/Potplayer which is well known to steal code from MPC and violate the GPL license of FFmpeg
I'm also willing to use them and I actually using them sometimes. Steal code? This is not problems of the simple user. For me there is no problems as long as player free, frequently updated and has a nice dev, who doesn't mind to spend some time for implementing feature requests.

Another thing, if you turned off Aero, guess what? It looks like Windows Classic.
No, it won't look like that by only turning aero off. You should try by yourself before posting some random googled screenshots.

EDIT:
Gabest copied GUI of the Windows Media Player. But this was years ago. If there is no interest in some GUI, it should be possible at least copy WMP look again. It doean't need to be exact with the same bugs/features.

[leeperry]

Yup, but the TMT3 interface has 2 flaws, the volume slider is hidden, and the background has 25 logos on it. Other than that, i agree, the GUI simple and practical with a nice modern design.

The best thing would be a theme repository, just like Media Browser and XMBC have, and themes should be aproved by the dev or developers.
I've modified it in PotPlayer: http://thumbnails32.imagebam.com/8912/64708b89115559.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/64708b89115559)

nothing's hidden as far as I can tell, and I've ditched all the background logos of course ;)

but most of the doom9 MPC-HC users like the yellow speaker and the WMP6.4 GUI...I think you're wasting your time, "there's no school like the old school" as they say :p

[tetsuo55]

Short responce from the dev team.

Splayer is based on mpc-hc, the patches change some of the behaviour but its the same thing on many levels.

XBMC as mentioned before, has a dsplayer implementation which is basically a refactor of mpc-hc for exclusive use in xbmc.
xbmc has a beautifull interface so the gui problem is solved there.

Skinning to some extent is possible, all the buttons can be replaced, see the wiki https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/Toolbar_images

The current gui is not perfect, since it copies media player 6.4 it also copies some of its design faults.
i do think that we need to update the gui in some small area's, but if/when we do so the changes have to be based on scientifically correct research. Gnome 3.0 interface guide is mostly research based and we are waiting for its release to start looking at its advice.

The changes that might occur are minor, like moving things areound a few pixels, nothing huge.

We are open to a more modern looking gui, but only if its scientifically simple and usefull and improves performance (or is at least on par)

Keep in mind that mpc-hc is intended as a quick lightweight player, all the "playlist-esque" features are not the main goal.

[Keiyakusha]

But I guess the form over functionality people can't accept the fact the WMP6.4 GUI is far superior to your bloatware, clumsy alternatives.

And everyone else can't understand that there no one talking about complete GUI replacement and there should be possibility to get current look.
Some dev can step in to make a GUI. Features/bugfixes? Of course this is wanted too but with current developing policy you anyway can't really expect much. So you not loosing anything.

[leeperry]

"form over functionality"...haha, since when do you have to choose between both? anyway, I think the OP is hoping for something that will never happen. Just pretend we're still in 1995 and you'll be just fine :)
Skinning to some extent is possible, all the buttons can be replaced, see the wiki https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/Toolbar_images
the seek locator could really use a brushup IMHO.

[GreenEyez]

It would be different if we didn’t have to rely on Cyberlink, or if there were open source True HD/DTS-HD MA alternatives so we had playback support in things like Media Player Classic - Home Cinema or XBMC.

Guys, he can`t read his own posts (XBMC looks like this (http://xbmc.org/wp-content/gallery/confluence/screenshot004.jpg) , not like WMP 6.4, and has a lot of skins) and Anandtech was talking about Cyberlink PowerDVD not TMT3 , let alone read the posts of other people...

Anyway, tetsuo55 , thanks for the official response, it`s good to know that you are open to alternative GUIs somewhere in the future. Thanks again, and i think that the mods can close this topic.

[Keiyakusha]

XBMC as mentioned before, has a dsplayer implementation which is basically a refactor of mpc-hc for exclusive use in xbmc.
xbmc has a beautifull interface so the gui problem is solved there

By the way this was few times mentioned before but maybe I don't understand something... If it is for exclusive XBMC use, it means can't be used as standalone app, right? So how this solves anything? Or there is somewhere separate variant? Will be very grateful for some link.

[tetsuo55]

the seek locator could really use a brushup IMHO.afaik mfc doesnt allow us to modify it
By the way this was few times mentioned before but maybe I don't understand something... If it is for exclusive XBMC use, it means can't be used as standalone app, right? So how this solves anything? Or there is somewhere separate variant? Will be very grateful for some link.Its actually part of the xbmc core, we do try to sync where possible though. dsplayer doesnt have a gui though since xbmc provides that functionality.

We're trying to refactor mpc-hc in such a way that the player core is seperated from the gui, such an effort would effect in an identical core in both xbmc and mpc-hc, but so far all roads where dead ends.

[Matching_Mole]

tetsuo55 : do you have somewhere a kind of road-map or the current list of goals of MPC-HC team (and not only about the GUI)?

[Brazil2]

We are open to a more modern looking gui, but only if its scientifically simple and usefull and improves performance (or is at least on par)

Keep in mind that mpc-hc is intended as a quick lightweight player, all the "playlist-esque" features are not the main goal.
Well said, I couldn't agree more :)

[Guest]

Ad hominems were removed. If you cannot post civilly and without attacking other persons, then do not post, or risk a strike. Expressing an opinion does not make one a troll or an idiot. Thank you.

[DrNein]

I was not aware that DSPlayer is based upon MPC-HC. That is interesting since I only use that version of XBMC to launch MPC-HC as an external player -which, by the way, is a seemless transition visually and remote control wise. The only minor drawback is losing the function of resuming from previous playback position.

XBMC is a good browser (although with high CPU usage), but MPC-HC remains the best player for my usage because it is powerful/flexible but simple.

I have no desire for a glitzy GUI. Indeed, I prefer the Windows Classic theme over Aero.

[stax76]

DSPlayer is a poor player NOT derived from MPC, SPlayer is derived from MPC but it lacks control over the filter graph so not very useful. With all GUI being OSD like WMP it looks good though. My StaxPlayer uses the same approach, OSD being transparent WPF windows on top of the main window so it's independent from the renderers, too bad StaxRip don't leave much time to work on it so I'm looking for programmers with VB.NET and WPF experience to join development.

http://h.imagehost.org/0430/Unbenannt.png (http://h.imagehost.org/view/0430/Unbenannt)

[GrofLuigi]

I would like to explain my aversion to skins.

Around the time Windows XP and its Themes service appeared, there were some (very slightly) older apps that didn't understand themes and/or were written without manifests and what not. In these apps, you could actually detach the theme from the app window if the app got stuck or responded slowly. Also, in XP, if you kill the themes service* you lose the skin, so it's very clear which one is native, and which one is added on top. I'm dead sure the situation is the same with Vista, and from what I"ve seen on 7, there too.

I'm firm believer in the KISS principle and nobody can convince me that, the more code executed is better than less code. Ever. It's not about the memory usage or anything similar, it's common sense (at least I'd like to believe that :)).

Regarding non-native skins, my opinion is similar. Additionaly, since this is such a huge but under(man)powered project, there is a significant risk that introducing a whole new layer of code will add many problems we (I) don't need - the risk is far greater than the reward, at least for me. Even if implemented as optional (another dll, for example) - who knows wheter its entry points will be "clean" enough all the time?

* very recently (XP SP3 + 170 subsequent updates, clean install) I got puzzled by very weird crashes. Somehow the Themes service would lose "trust" (permissions) and commit suicide (crash) out of the blue, taking away many of its siblings (it's paired with Shell Services (autoplay), but others would also crash). After very extensive debugging (believe me, VERY extensive), nothing could restore its will to live. Format C: was the only way to go. I had no virus or antivirus and no hardware problem.

GL

[Sharktooth]

@GrofLuigi: Welcome to Windows. You should try Linux instead... ;)

[khagaroth]

It would be probably worth to try to add a call to InitCommonControlsEx as it could make the program use newer versions of the common controls (volume and navigation slider) on the main dialog. Microsoft warns about using theme manifest without declaring it anyway (and I have seen programs break because of it after using one resource editing program to add manifest - the program warned about the lack of comctl32 initialization - not every program broke because of it, but there were plenty), so it wouldn't hurt to add it even if it doesn't do anything.

[oddball]

I used to be a big fan of KMPlayer up until I got an HDTV. For use with an HDTV there is no contest for me. MPC-HC all the way. The only thing I would change is not so much it's GUI but it's handling of subtitles. I wish it used the same subtitle rendering engine as KMPlayer. But I am guessing it would not work in DXVA mode? Anyhow a bit off topic. I think it's GUI should just be a very simple skinning system then you can have a whatever look you want. But I would much rather devs concentrated on bug fixes and feature requests :)

[Keiyakusha]

oddball
Sorry for continuing this little offtopic but what's wrong with MPC-HC rendering engine? All I know is it can be much faster (theoretically). So KMPlayer faster, this is what you mean? Because other than speed, MPC-HC's renderer has most complete formats/features support. Maybe different renderers producing somewhat different looking output, but if so - they are wrong and should be fixed. If there is something other -something that can be implemented, I believe you can express your wishes in the main thread, maybe they will be heard by someone.

Well, returning to the GUI. If there will be enough motivation to make a GUI, or even some new dev will step in, I don't think this will affect current amount of bugfixes. And you also shouldn't worry about new bugs that can be introduced, because for that new branch can be created and merged only when it will be stable enough.

[Octo-puss]

I am totally against any changes in the GUI. What is it lacking? It has very cool olsdchool looks, and does everything that is needed. It works great even in fullscreen.
If you want eye candy and crap, use WMP18 with cool little animated stars in every menu.

[GreenEyez]

- One-click access to subtitles/audio tracks/chapters , the things people use the most besides the media control buttons. Chapter skipping is a button smashing contest atm.
- Options that are not double featured. A lot of options can be found in both the right-click menu and the top bar menu (the file menu for ex, featured both in the right click menu and the top bar). Why? Kinda blows away the KISS theory..
- Unified Play/Pause button. You don`t need separate Play/Pause buttons.
- Windows 7 Libraries support
- A design that actually goes with something more modern than the 13inch CRT and Pentium 3 i have colleting dust in the attic. Sorry, some of us moved from those thing years ago

[Keiyakusha]

Octo-puss
Come on, no one is going to take away your oldschool GUI! It was said that it should be possible to retain old look.
The GUI is needed without a questions. And because of that you can't say you against it. In the same way someone else can be against various new features because he is not going to use them but others will. The question is how it should be implemented and who will do this.

[tetsuo55]

tetsuo55 : do you have somewhere a kind of road-map or the current list of goals of MPC-HC team (and not only about the GUI)?http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/To-Do and
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/requirements , the 2nd page is a very crude wip aimed at developersIt would be probably worth to try to add a call to InitCommonControlsEx as it could make the program use newer versions of the common controls (volume and navigation slider) on the main dialog. Microsoft warns about using theme manifest without declaring it anyway (and I have seen programs break because of it after using one resource editing program to add manifest - the program warned about the lack of comctl32 initialization - not every program broke because of it, but there were plenty), so it wouldn't hurt to add it even if it doesn't do anything.i will pass this piece of info on to the developers.
DSPlayer is a poor player NOT derived from MPC Dsplayer is "new code" but the programmers used mpc-hc sourcecode and msdn documents as a base. some parts are very similar others are miles apart.

- One-click access to subtitles/audio tracks/chapters , the things people use the most besides the media control buttons. Chapter skipping is a button smashing contest atm. We agree this could be better, but we cannot easily change the menu layouts without changing the translation system first.
- Options that are not double featured. A lot of options can be found in both the right-click menu and the top bar menu (the file menu for ex, featured both in the right click menu and the top bar). Why? Kinda blows away the KISS theory..same problem as above, but additionally in some views only the rightclick menu is available. I believe a lot of the duplication needs to go, but we consider the menu bar and options the on device buttons, and the rightclick menu the quick access remote control.

- Unified Play/Pause button. You don`t need separate Play/Pause buttons. I agree, we currently use them mutually exclusively, but its difficult to program a single button in a logical way, a different solution would be to change the meaning of play and pause similarly to what foobar2000 does.

- Windows 7 Libraries support i dont know what you mean with that
- A design that actually goes with something more modern than the 13inch CRT and Pentium 3 i have colleting dust in the attic. Sorry, some of us moved from those thing years ago like i said, the gui can be changed by anyone willing and able, on the premise that it improves performance and/or code maintainability with the same speed as the current gui. this ofcouse proven through the scientific method.

On the subtitle renderer:
There is a project to create a new subtitle renderer, this renderer will be much faster and platform independent.
that said we will accept any improvement patches to the current renderer.

[Kado]

- Unified Play/Pause button. You don`t need separate Play/Pause buttons.

Well Winamp has them separate but if you press play during playback it will reopen the file like the MPC-HC hotkey "CTRL+E" added in revision 1986 (http://mpc-hc.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mpc-hc?view=revision&revision=1986).
Either the keys are merged, behave like Winamp or stay the same classic way!

P.S.=> Remember to remove "Classic" from the player's name if you "modernize" the GUI because it will not be classic anymore.
MP-HC - "Media Player - Home Cinema"

[Atak_Snajpera]

Thanks Astrophizz , the ones done by Phaser look really nice.

Anyway, i`ve finished the 4th mock-up, with redesigned buttons to look like the WMP12 ones + a new speaker icon.

http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae148/GreenEyez2010/Mockup4.png

Very amateurish work. You are wasting your time.

[GreenEyez]

What part of MOCK-UP or Sketch don`t you understand? You think i`m actually going to spend time designing each little button/bar to perfection for something that may or may be approved. When the developers will start offering full skinning support in the (distant) future, then i`ll do the "serious" work based on these sketches.

[GreenEyez]

http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/To-Do and
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/requirements

Thanks, very useful. Now, from what i have seen in that roadmap, are you guys planning to ditch the internal MPC-HC filters for ffdshow ?

[leeperry]

When the developers will start to offering full skinning support in the future, then i`ll do the "serious" work based on these sketches.
There's hardly any active MPC coder, and there's a truckload of critical bugs to be fixed...you can skin the buttons, this is as good as it's gonna get I'm afraid. If you care about skinning(like many ppl do), why not using another player? Many of them support great skinning, there's even some official MPC branches I think? Splayer or something like that.

It's called Media Player Classic, and the doom9 ppl seem to like the yellow speaker...nothing fancy's going to happen, and the naysayers in this thread fail to see the gap between bloat and basic. I personally hate bloated GUI's, I just like simple slick ones...but this debate has happened before, and it's always ended up in a trolling feast.

[GreenEyez]

i don`t know what you mean with that


I mean integration with Windows Libraries. A one button solution that takes you to your Movie/Video library in Win7. Something like the Favorites feature currently implemented in MPC.

like i said, the gui can be changed by anyone willing and able, on the premise that it improves performance and/or code maintainability with the same speed as the current gui. this ofcouse proven through the scientific method.


And i presume there are no plans for moving to WPF ? Because the latter would make changing the UI a lot easier
Also, by scientific method, you mean testing the old GUI vs the new one for response times ?

[GreenEyez]

There's hardly any active MPC coder, and there's a truckload of critical bugs to be fixed...you can skin the buttons, this is as good as it's gonna get I'm afraid. If you care about skinning(like many ppl do), why not using another player? Many of them support great skinning, there's even some official MPC branches I think? Splayer or something like that.

It's called Media Player Classic, and the doom9 ppl seem to like the yellow speaker...nothing fancy's going to happen, and the naysayers in this thread fail to see the gap between bloat and basic. I personally hate bloated GUI's, I just like simple slick ones...but this debate has happened before, and it's always ended up in a trolling feast.

unfortunately, you`re right. That`s why i stopped developing on the theme sketches. The problem is that MPC-HC has been my nr1 choice of media player for both my computers and my HTPC, and my software guide for Win 7 Media Center. Many players don`t support automatic 24p switching for ex., or have support from plugins like Media Browser. And will still remain my fav player, even without themeing. I just feels like a BMW M5 trapped in a 1980 Ford body

Anyway, tetsuo55 has had very good answers to my questions, and that`s what i was expecting from the thread.

[apathy]

I'm actually fine with MPC's current GUI. I'm just wondering if it's possible to have the status, seek bar, and controls auto-hide like they would in full screen mode implemented? That way it would behave like wmp12 and would be more minimal. We don't need to see the controls, etc at all times. I'm well aware of the different modes activated by hitting 1-3 but it's not the same. I was also wondering if it was possible to implement the option to only hide the menu and not menu and caption?

[GreenEyez]

And another good thing would be enabling the seekbar and maybe the controls to appear on remote control command. Atm, it only works when using a mouse. If you press play via a remote, the control/seek bars don`t pop-up.

[tetsuo55]

Thanks, very useful. Now, from what i have seen in that roadmap, are you guys planning to ditch the internal MPC-HC filters for ffdshow ?we're going to keep internal filters, the idea is just to optimise them so we dont have a bunch of different projects doing the exact same work.
I mean integration with Windows Libraries. A one button solution that takes you to your Movie/Video library in Win7. Something like the Favorites feature currently implemented in MPC.sounds doable, i suggest opening a ticket for that


And i presume there are no plans for moving to WPF ? Because the latter would make changing the UI a lot easier
Also, by scientific method, you mean testing the old GUI vs the new one for response times ?no plans to do that no, unscientific evidence points out that its considerably slower.
As the wiki page points out, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method , a double blind test will have to prove things like memory usage, security, speed and maintainability are at least on par with mfc.

[turbojet]

A few things I'd like to see eventually that improves functionality:

1. Change the time display so it can always be read more easily (basically unreadable on TV) . Some ways to do this I thought of:
a) move time display to control bar, increase font
b) increase statusbar height, font
c) rollover shows OSD time display
d) rollover magnifier

2. Time on seekbar rollover like most flash players. Extending it to image preview like hulu's player would be nice too.

3. Dots on seekbar to signify chapter marks like hulu's player does with ad spots.

[stax76]

A .NET WPF player takes about 500ms more to load so for instance is available after a second instead of a half second. It takes more memory but but less disk space. You can try my private player StaxPlayer if you have doubts in efficiency. The main dialog uses WinForms because of WinAPI interoperability, dialogs use WinForms which does standard controls well and the OSD uses WPF which does fancy design well. The WPF OSD is done with separate windows that sit on top of the main/video window so it's independent from renderers. DirectShow is a COM API so it can be easily used from different languages. Technically a WPF OSD for MPC would be no problem, some just would need to expose a COM SDK like DVBViewer or MediaMonkey. That's one way, GDI and DirectX would be another, even WebKit might be a option, Google builds a HTPC interface with that, it's called Google TV not released yet.

http://www.filedropper.com/staxplayer

[Atak_Snajpera]

What part of MOCK-UP or Sketch don`t you understand?
I'm judging overall design. Colors , shapes and so on. Looks very cheap and unprofessional. That's all.
I'm also against any changes in GUI. I love MPC's simplicity.

[Guest]

Very amateurish work. You are wasting your time. Agreed, IMHO. Also, the button shadowing is physically unreal, i.e., could not occur in real life with real light.

[patul]

I'm also against any changes in GUI. I love MPC's simplicity.

I second that. There's no need to add bloating codes just to add skinning support. I'm too against any changes in GUI. Leave the GUI as of now.

[73ChargerFan]

I'd like to see the seek-bar & current/total time pop-up when I hit PAUSE on the remote, then auto- disappear a few seconds later.

I am not a fan of the current UI. The buttons are too small on my 58" screen, top menus can't be seen and don't appear/disappear, the D3D full-screen seek-bar looks old-fashioned even for 1982, and the right-click menu is way too complicated.

[niksus]

Keeping the ancient GUI just drives away new users. I don't like it either nor I care for the small footprint - it's the 21st Century after all, with its modern computers and modern OS's.
And while targeting geeks and resource zealots only, the user base is getting smaller, affecting the popularity - thus no "fresh" developers either.

[Ronin-7]

I agree with the others, nothing wrong with MPC-HC GUI leave it alone, VLC has a similar GUI and that certainly hasn't affected its popularity. There are plenty of other players out there for those that dislike the way MPC-HC looks or operates.

The only thing that might be worth doing is a lick of paint like VLC recently did for it's GUI no major redesign just fresh icons/graphics for the controls.

[Octo-puss]

Keeping the ancient GUI just drives away new users. I don't like it either nor I care for the small footprint - it's the 21st Century after all, with its modern computers and modern OS's.
And while targeting geeks and resource zealots only, the user base is getting smaller, affecting the popularity - thus no "fresh" developers either.
But this player is not for nubs who use WMP. Simple as that.
Leave the GUI be!!!
21st century doesn't mean animated buttons in highcolor!

[Atak_Snajpera]

Exactly! We don't need another Winamp.

[Selur]

btw. does any one know if there's hope that MPC-HC will get the frame back when caption is disabled?
Wwas changed in Changeset 1622 and there's also a request to reverse it or at least add it as an option, see: http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/ticket/263
Since the ticket is 6month+ old, I'm thinking about ditching mpc-hc more and more.
I really like MPC-HC, but really don't like frameless windows so I can't use a current mpc-hc version atm. :(

[iron2000]

btw. does any one know if there's hope that MPC-HC will get the frame back when caption is disabled?
Wwas changed in Changeset 1622 and there's also a request to reverse it or at least add it as an option, see: http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/ticket/263
Since the ticket is 6month+ old, I'm thinking about ditching mpc-hc more and more.
I really like MPC-HC, but really don't like frameless windows so I can't use a current mpc-hc version atm. :(

Would be nice to be able to hide the menu bar only instead of window frame + menu bar.

[cweb]

Keeping the ancient GUI just drives away new users. I don't like it either nor I care for the small footprint - it's the 21st Century after all, with its modern computers and modern OS's.
And while targeting geeks and resource zealots only, the user base is getting smaller, affecting the popularity - thus no "fresh" developers either.

i agree. However there could be a choice of GUI.

[laxu]

MPC could really use a better GUI. As far as functionality, it's fine. The issue is that it looks like a Win95 program. It wouldn't be all that hard to make it it look like a native Win7 software.

For usability's sake, play and pause could be combined into one button and I'm not sure if the next/previous/increase speed/decrease speed/step buttons are necessary at all since most probably just open a single video file from a file browser.

I like what Mirillis are doing with their Splash player. It looks great and has some very cool feature like the preview images for jumping on the timeline. Something like that would be welcome in MPC as well. Maybe it's time to drop that C and just call it MPHC.