MPC-HC GUI Discussion Thread

[mr.duck]

But this is a GUI discussion thread. Not what we think the developers should be working on thread.

[ranpha]

But this is a GUI discussion thread. Not what we think the developers should be working on thread.

But developers are theone who will work on whatever you want. Their resources is limited. Here, I am pretty damn sure I want them to work on non-GUI issues like what I mentioned in the last post that is more pressing than 'copying WMP12 seekbar that looks better and desirable' but doesn't add on functionality.

If I have to choose between:-

a. superior image quality during video playback.
b. 'better' looking seekbar ripped straight from WMP12.

the choice is obvious.

Remember, developers' resources are limited.

[burfadel]

While I do agree with Ranpha to a degree, it depends on what you want MPC to be. If you want it to be a player used by a few people who like the functionality on Doom9, then the interface is fine. However, for the typical user, an attractive media player is important, then that way more people can take advantage of the image quality (with advanced settings at one point possibly becoming reliable enough to be made default)...

[ranpha]

Well, if aesthetic interface is really important, there is PotPlayer, that is fully skinnable, and has almost everything MPC-HC has except decent subtitle engine that is usable with DXVA. There is a thread about it here in doom9 too, therefore I think it is a valid alternative video player for those who want shiny GUI.

MPC-HC itself has their own share of problems that isn't related to the GUI I would like the developers to work on them. As of build 2903, the IQ for EVR custom presenter is still not up to par with madVR for example.

[mr.duck]

I won't be updating the GUI myself. Maybe some one else will that would not be fixing bugs anyway.

[burfadel]

I wasn't suggesting the current developers work on the GUI, its something that can be done separately. In this thread we can throw around ideas of what it could look like, and work towards the basic layout. I'm sure there are people here that can put whats discussed into a working design. I'm not talking about basic buttons etc, I'm referring to more 'Windows 7' oriented designs and 'controls' usage.

We're not looking for a radical change, just something simple yet attractive and functional that won't be a put off to new users simply because its (in computer terms) ancient. Like ranpha said, there are other players that people would see as just as functional which are more modern looking, I just see the current interface as something which will greatly deter people from using it - it would be a shame for Mplayerc to wither away just because the interface meant few users using it.

[jinsk8r]

Windows 7 Taskbar Controls (WMP's defaults)

1. Download this PNG:
http://i61.servimg.com/u/f61/11/81/48/66/w7_too10.png

2. Use Restorator or ResHacker to edit mpc-hc.exe:
http://i61.servimg.com/u/f61/11/81/48/66/how_to10.png

3. Result:
http://i61.servimg.com/u/f61/11/81/48/66/taskba10.png


Link:
Restorator (http://www.bome.com/products/restorator)
Reshaker (http://www.angusj.com/resourcehacker/)

[ranpha]

If 'Windows 7 oriented designs' means those alpha-blending transparency, it can already be done with third-party programs, if you so choose. You can make your own toolbar.bmp if you don't like the default buttons and volume sliders. You can use 'Windows and Colors Appearance' toolset in Windows to change title-bar background color, typeface and fonts.

MPC-HC will not wither away just because of its default GUI. This programs is the default player in so many codec packs, it wasn't even funny. MPC-HC will only be abandoned if there are no developments in it happening, which doesn't seem to be the case for now. Rarely I seen people switching away from MPC-HC because of its GUI. More often than not, such things happened if MPC-HC doesn't have the functions they wants.

[jinsk8r]

Windows 7 Taskbar Controls (WMP12's default)

1. Download this PNG:
http://i61.servimg.com/u/f61/11/81/48/66/w7_too11.png

2. Download ResHacker (http://www.angusj.com/resourcehacker/) or Restorator (http://www.bome.com/products/restorator) and open "mpc-hc.exe" to replace the default one:
http://i61.servimg.com/u/f61/11/81/48/66/how_to11.png

3. Result:
http://i61.servimg.com/u/f61/11/81/48/66/taskba11.png

[mr.duck]

I wasn't suggesting the current developers work on the GUI, its something that can be done separately. In this thread we can throw around ideas of what it could look like, and work towards the basic layout. I'm sure there are people here that can put whats discussed into a working design. I'm not talking about basic buttons etc, I'm referring to more 'Windows 7' oriented designs and 'controls' usage.

We're not looking for a radical change, just something simple yet attractive and functional that won't be a put off to new users simply because its (in computer terms) ancient. Like ranpha said, there are other players that people would see as just as functional which are more modern looking, I just see the current interface as something which will greatly deter people from using it - it would be a shame for Mplayerc to wither away just because the interface meant few users using it.

Yes!!! Well that is what I was trying to show with my last mock up picture. That's impossible without someone actually writing the code and wherever needs doing.

I will link it again...
1) MPC-HC STOCK SCREENSHOT (http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/145/mpcq.png)
2) MPC-HC PROPOSED UPDATE MOCK-UP (http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8862/mpccopy.png)

It is specifically a visual change only so anyone willing to make something like this happen will not have to worry about coding any core functionality.

[burfadel]

Well, for the moment one of the current modded toolbars, or a new one, could be implemented. The timeframe for the new GUI would be quite a while I'd imagine, if one ever is implemented. Realistically though, consider what they're talking about with the new Windows 8 Gui, MPC-HC will look chronically outdated by then.

The argument about MPC-HC being in codec packs is a good point, however the average user can't distinguish between the very first build of the MPC-HC branch, and the latest (apart from the buildnumber). The problem is, there are people out there with 8 month old copies, 1.5 yr old copies, 3 yr old copies,... or even one of the original MPC, which depsite having lots of builds (dozens? more?) they all had identical version numbers!

I see a new GUI as away for everyone to get the latest MPC-HC, as it will be obvious! in the meantime, the toolbar update would be beneficial, especially if combined with a basic updater. Although belonging more to the normal discussion thread, I do see at least a toolbar update + updater as being beneficial. Remember, most people out there actually fully rely on auto-updates. If they didn't have autoupdates turned on, things simply wouldn't be updated.

[bobdynlan]

For those who did not see my old mod because of the drop.io shut down, here's one screenshot (click to open real size):
http://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1pUu0y8xRbSPw58Vz7FVuYzZI0O3yrBLINs-E_wVd9-7_vMe6OorpaBiBbBggyOoEntSpd-vFRk0CJlHSou7DJcg/dark_tron_mpchc.png?psid=1 (http://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1pUu0y8xRbSPw58Vz7FVuYzQoIE-WZHEP9CEdgMfDJDj83AUXkFhKgdJpJvrJNfX3EA_w9iHXnn22Aa7Vc-m49gQ/dark_tron_mpchc.png?psid=1)

And a recap to why i did it:
The reason I started on doing this was this: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1378249#post1378249
I never used the default light gray background from windows themes. Whenever I changed that from default, the toolbar buttons did not follow the colour setup in CP for 3d objects. So I had to use the hack of no xp-theming that fixed it, but made ugly buttons. My only complain about the default gui was this bug, and I have only wished for a dark background as a feature add. Hitting an wall on that, decided to fix it myself.

My goal was never to pimp it up with some fluffy bitmaps. It's not even hard to do that. Looking at the source code for the - awesome in it's simplicity - default volume control, motivated me to learn about custom draw, gdi and mfc in general. Well, it's not the ideal ide for media player gui creation. You can create bloated ribbon bars as easy as 1-2-3, but when it comes to things like a volume control, not even MS can do it well, look at the result in Windows 7, the slider does not even match colour with the triangular shape from the right side. MPC-HC is already filled with hacks in the gui area, and this makes a simple thing like choosing a darker solid colour background for the toolbar not trivial. You need to change source code in several places. Get around things like client and non-client areas, controls repositioning & etc.

One thing lead to another, but the deviations are slim.
You have to be esthetically blind to advocate the default mpc gui. Man has always surrounded himself with pleasant things, and almost everything he creates is beautiful, from an oil paint to a watermill, from a song to a math formula, from a cookie to a great dam - even if it's functionally useless and wastes resources.

Beauty is an indispensable drug for our souls. And like any drug, too much might actually hurt. When I look at "functional" software these days, I find the level of bloat to be disturbing. Most antivirus programs have guis far more "prettier" than mpc-hc has, but it should be the other way around as those should keep a simple gui.

And then there are programs that bloat the gui to hide the crap from under the hood - like fancy interface for some retarded batch scripts that steal all the credits deserved by the bundled open source command line tools - Made for suckers (TM). MPC-HC will not appeal to those...

Speaking of WMP12, all it's strengths faded out rather quick the first time I had contact with it because of the show-stopper pop-up volume control. I'm glad Microsoft listened and silently changed it into an always visible one. Now it stands out from the pack.
Windows 7 on the whole is less of a mess that Microsoft did with all those alternative looks inconsistencies. I highly recommend Classic Shell (http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/) (screenshot (http://z8v1ha.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1p1p-D-1Y4nEzFuneZKvrsaonO6qbxYOOBH17a3LPLLW14UuzRL0mJhtdZwsOYQS_oWCig7SzRbex9fqWX_PDPB1ryMIUMMI_o/win7classicshell.png?psid=1)) with it, for the added functionality, available choices and not the least, looks.

All this fighting against modification tends to discourage developers, but I intend to mod it again once the core code gets stabilized. You might dislike my acquired taste, but nobody will force you to use it.

[tetsuo55]

Just to be clear here.

MPC-HC does not have any active developers.
All patches committed are given to us by end-users.

This thread is intended to discuss how to get code into mpc-hc, code written by one of the many end users, that add's gui customisation to a level similar to foobar2000.

[ranpha]

You have to be esthetically blind to advocate the default mpc gui. Man has always surrounded himself with pleasant things, and almost everything he creates is beautiful, from an oil paint to a watermill, from a song to a math formula, from a cookie to a great dam - even if it's functionally useless and wastes resources.


Do you think that it is sumptuous for you to try and speak for the human race? There are plenty of people who want their application to just work perfectly. This really applies to applications like MPC-HC, where you spend 99% of your time watching videos than looking at the GUI.


Beauty is an indispensable drug for our souls. And like any drug, too much might actually hurt. When I look at "functional" software these days, I find the level of bloat to be disturbing. Most antivirus programs have guis far more "prettier" than mpc-hc has, but it should be the other way around as those should keep a simple gui.


The same should also apply for video players. What did you do with one? Watching movies would be the primary use for one. For that, GUI should be less important than programs like word processing or image manipulation.

Antivirus programs should also have less GUI because they are usually a TSR application.


Speaking of WMP12, all it's strengths faded out rather quick the first time I had contact with it because of the show-stopper pop-up volume control. I'm glad Microsoft listened and silently changed it into an always visible one. Now it stands out from the pack.


http://thumbnails34.imagebam.com/12261/d810cc122601114.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/d810cc122601114)

The above is the default look for WMP12. Sorry to say, but this interface is crap. Same can also be said for iTunes.

Standing out from the pack? Not for me. I don't think it is prudent for you to try to speak for the human race, unless you have empirical proof.


All this fighting against modification tends to discourage developers, but I intend to mod it again once the core code gets stabilized. You might dislike my acquired taste, but nobody will force you to use it.


Well, if you want to code it in, the said feature should be made optional. Even Splash Player SmartSeek seekbar feature is optional, that can be turned off if anyone doesn't like it.

[ramicio]

Use a different player, keep MPC-HC the same. What is aesthetically pleasing for one person doesn't mean it will be so for everyone. Every modded screenshot everyone has posted here is just ugly. I can speak for the human race and say that fewer people don't care how it looks now than there would be if idiots started making it all fluffy and modern-looking.

[mr.duck]

What other player is there apart from MPC HC that isn't junk?

Most you could not live with on a daily basis. Maybe zoom player is OK but is payware.

[ramicio]

If you rely on MPC's internal filters then you are screwed. Anything MPC does can easily be duplicated with Directshow filters (Haali, ffdshow.) I have MPC but I don't even rely on its internal filters. I use it to watch video, I don't look and stare at what my player looks like.

[bobdynlan]

You can't expect that the whole world stand still just because you don't like/are too afraid of/are incapable of changing your long time habits - even if it's about a keyboard shortcut that needs just a few days to get used to it. Rant all you want, but changes are inevitable (and most of the times beneficial to your brain). How many people are out there, still using Windows 9X? How about 2K? XP will fade out soon, too.

Like it or not, this piece of work (MPC-HC) addresses everybody, not just a few "elitists" that arrogated themselves the right to ban any attempt to "fluffy-lize" a little the default gui, while stating that the gui is not important, because most of the time they don't even look at it. Well I for one, don't have the luxury to watch a movie for a few hours without interruptions, so I do see the gui. And the default bars are burning my screen and my eyes. Anyway, at the current state it will not live on much more, because the competition is higher than ever these days.


Do you think that it is sumptuous for you to try and speak for the human race?

The above is the default look for WMP12. Sorry to say, but this interface is crap. Same can also be said for iTunes.

Standing out from the pack? Not for me. I don't think it is prudent for you to try to speak for the human race, unless you have empirical proof. I am not interested in a philosophical debate here or fueling trolling, but I will give a short answer:
- it's just my personal opinion, nursed from empirical proofs that I am a human being. This can go both ways if I ever need to predict, observe or define other human being's behaviors. For such common, axiomatic observations, there is no point in going to mathematical proofs but the evidence is there if needed. Anyway, I'm not trying to shut everyone up like you do...
- how many quotes from this thread do you need to get it that's not about WMP12's library mode? Rhetorical question


I can speak for the human race and say that fewer people don't care how it looks now than there would be if idiots started making it all fluffy and modern-looking. I hope you are referring exclusively to Made for suckers (TM) stuff. This is nothing new, it happened since the beginning of time in one way or another, from colored glass to tin foil hats or apple logos on a phone. You've got your facts reversed, the ones that buy the bad products are the idiots, not the creators. The sooner you understand that the vast majority of human beings are idiots (me included), the better.

[ramicio]

So go buy some bad products that look flashy to watch your video. I watch video CONSTANTLY, and I don't bitch about this "outdated" GUI. It's not "outdated" it's just not your style. You just stated you don't have the "luxury" to watch a movie without interruptions, whatever that has to do with watching it fullscreen, I have no idea, at least you called yourself an idiot at the end of your post.

I was referring to...

More people are happy with MPC-HC because of its features than are unhappy with how it is supposedly un-modern. They don't bitch about the looks. It's for playing video, not looking snazzy. Make it look all fluffy and people will just branch off their own version again to keep with the old style.

[Dark Eiri]

It's not "outdated" it's just not your style.

It IS outdated. EXTREMELY outdated. It uses visual schemes and button icons from 1995!

That being said, it does not affect it's greatness. It is, indeed, the best player around.

But the truth is, in a modern OS, MPC-HC sticks out as a sore thumb. It just doesn't fit. You don't need to revamp the whole thing, just make it look like it belongs. Or you want it to end up joining the glee club?

[ramicio]

The glee club is for gays, and gays care about style, so it should stay how it looks and out of the glay club. It's not outdated.

[mr.duck]

Other projects like mediaportal or XBMC have a large number of people that are into art and design and they make their own skins. Maybe MPC-HC just needs a full featured skinning and external controls API so people can customize it and you might get people designing their own front ends.

The guts are so functional already. I would rather have a choice for the interface at this point.

[foxyshadis]

No useful discussion is going on in this thread anymore, just lots of people arguing about what it should look like with no one actually willing or available to implement any of the suggestions. This navel-gazing is far off-topic and getting closed.