MPC-HC GUI Discussion Thread

[GrofLuigi]

I told myself I won't reply about this anymore, here or in another place, because obviously I'm a minority, but I just want to explain my position (of a conservative :devil:) since I see it's grossly misunderstood. I can't speak for anyone else, I can only hope they have similar reasoning. And, mostly of this pertains to other programs and OSes, while MPC-HC being only a small part.

I'm a strong believer in functionality over make-up. I use a program because it allows me to do something, not to look at it. I'd use a screensaver or an art picture for that.

A button is a button. You can make it circular, square and few other shapes.

A bar is a bar. It can be only one shape.

There are well known symbols for play, pause, ff, rew, etc. It's all been thought before.

You can represent a film strip or clapper board in only few basic ways.

etc. etc.

There are some ways you can 'pretty' them up (rotate, add gradients, fake 3d borders or transparency...), but soon that will get 'old' with most users too. And you have pretty much wasted your time and resources with something that was of no use to you. It's favourable for paid software makers, because they can keep selling basically the same thing, but for such a project, starved for developers and other resources, I think it would be suicide to start chasing the latest fashion. Also it would practically guarantee unnecessary quarels and forking. Not there aren't any now, but it's a commintment to another (quite big) area to maintain.

Another matter is if some paradigm shift of user interface controls appeared (gestures, touch... ?) Then I think it would be necessary to add it, if enough users request it.

But so much ado about such skin deep issue? (yeah, bad pun :p) I can't justify even my time lost writing this. I would accept any change, just to stop all the complaints, but I'm afraid (and pretty sure) they will never go away.

The only possible solution, as I see it, is to add full skinning system. OK, get done with it and let's get over with so we can return to DXVA and driver incompatibilites...

GL

[mr.duck]

Foobar2000 has a great plugin system. Everything in a plugin, even the default UI. MPC-HC could support the use of an external interface/skin for customization?


@GrofLuigi... I agree mostly with you. But think of Windows 2000 vs Windows 7 interface. Functionality is the same. With windows, a start menu, a clock in the bottom right. But it looks much better and you wouldn't want to go back after getting used to Windows 7. It is a much nicer place to be. Like working in a brand new, modern building can make you more happy compared to working in an ugly concrete block. We are not talking about changing a few icons. That's not going to make it better. Just talking about changing it so it is no longer grey and old looking like it came with Windows 95.

[ramicio]

Anyone who knows anything about computers knows not to judge a book by its cover. It's not outdated and old, it's simple. Simple is always better for the people who care about accurate results. It's not a product, it's free.

Take a look at picture software that commonly comes with computers. It's all bubbly, cutesy-looking, and pretty. Then look at Photoshop. The cheap crap will appear to be better, and to the dumbed down computer illiterate, will serve them just fine. But for anyone who NEEDS something that functions uses Photoshop, and no one has ever cared about how Photoshop looks. It serves a purpose, to do a job. I'd say it's even better done because it is very very clean and organized.

Who cares how a video player looks? Most people watch their video in full screen anyway. If you want to make your MPC-HC look pretty, code your own! If the default look for MPC-HC ever changes I will not update it anymore.

[Dark Eiri]

But there are different kinds of simple: foobar2000 is simple, but is still looks consistent with a modern OS. MPC-HC looks extremely out of place in Windows 7 with it's Windows 9x controls. It looks 15 years old.
I'm all for function over looks but there must be a limit for it.

Take a look at picture software that commonly comes with computers. It's all bubbly, cutesy-looking, and pretty. Then look at Photoshop. The cheap crap will appear to be better, and to the dumbed down computer illiterate, will serve them just fine. But for anyone who NEEDS something that functions uses Photoshop, and no one has ever cared about how Photoshop looks. It serves a purpose, to do a job. I'd say it's even better done because it is very very clean and organized..

CS5 is actually REALLY good looking. Actually, since 8.0 CS, it's been really pretty to look, if you're familiar with older versions.

[burfadel]

To all those saying functionality rules over a nice GUI, I'm not saying that you should fore'go functionality for the GUI, I'm just suggesting that the GUI should be made to be something pleasant to look at (and easy to use with bigger buttons) than something which you tolerate just because you want to access the programmes functionality.

Back to the car example, you can have the best, most 'functional' car, but if it looks like crap nobody will want it, and MPC-HC is already at that point. Most users don't know good functionality, and MPC-HC does require setting up to make full use of that functionality. People tend towards VLC because it at least looks like its not 15 years outdated. For MPC-HC to survive in the long run, it does desperately need to be modernised.

I also see there's a thread about OS X and MPC-HC. So, those claiming that it should remain how it is to stay 'classic', what do you think of that? The old WMP was never on OS X! ;)

[tetsuo55]

@ALL:
Please keep in mind that we are completely open to a modular gui system that allows people to customise the gui in any way they want. Just like foobar2000 has.

However one of you will have to make this possible by writing the code for that.

[ramicio]

Foobar2000 is the same kind of style as MPC! Grey, simple. Foobar is also a mess. So disorganized, and it's not very useful. To me, it's something that difficult people like. The kind of people who have a compulsive need to use command lines to do everything. The same kind of people who strive to use Linux as a usable PC for media. Photoshop has been and always will be the same basic UI, plain grey with black text.

Anyone who buys software for the purpose of making a product doesn't care about how the software looks. They care that it's organized and makes a good final product. Anyone who buys software for something cool to look at are the kind of people who use cheap software that decides what is good for the user and offers no input for settings, the fewest steps possible, for quick results.

This is why I never understood why people take pride in their wallpapers. I don't even have any icons on my desktop, and it's black. I'm not for disallowing modifications, but I don't think the quality of the software should ever lose focus to people wanting looks. The default look should stay.

[Astrophizz]

Who says a change in looks would have to affect functionality/quality? I don't think that's a very good argument.

[mr.duck]

If you have windows 7 try playing a video in windows media player. The blue seek bar thing looks nice and could be shamelessly copied for MPC HC. Keep functionality the same. Keep dimensions the same. Just change the interface to make it more pleasant to look at. It is a media player after all so some people do care what it looks like as you do sit there staring at it.

[ranpha]

If you have windows 7 try playing a video in windows media player. The blue seek bar thing looks nice and could be shamelessly copied for MPC HC. Keep functionality the same. Keep dimensions the same. Just change the interface to make it more pleasant to look at. It is a media player after all so some people do care what it looks like as you do sit there staring at it.

People would taken your view more seriously if you don't use WMP12 as an example.

[Hypernova]

People would taken your view more seriously if you don't use WMP12 as an example.

And as I said before in this thread, I actually like WMP12 video playing UI the most of all players I've used. I must emphasized that I mean the playing UI only, not the library UI.

I kind of understand those who prefer the old school look. That said, as tetsuo555 mentioned, there is no one working on GUI, except the bobdynlan's work. I think he's still working on it. When he is done (to some extend), I suggest we have a vote on 1. If this should be applied to main SVN, and 2. If this should be the default UI.

[mr.duck]

People would taken your view more seriously if you don't use WMP12 as an example.

I am just talking about the seekbar here. It's blue. What's wrong with it? I would never want to use WMP12 over MPC. I am just talking about the color of the seekbar.

[ranpha]

I am just talking about the seekbar here. It's blue. What's wrong with it? I would never want to use WMP12 over MPC. I am just talking about the color of the seekbar.

So apparently because WMP12 seekbar color is blue, MPC-HC has to emulate it?

[mr.duck]

So apparently because WMP12 seekbar color is blue, MPC-HC has to emulate it?

Has to? No. Don't you think it looks nice?

[ranpha]

Has to? No. Don't you think it looks nice?

It doesn't really look better than MPC-HC seekbar, it just look different.

[burfadel]

I'd have to agree the WMP seekbar and buttons do look far superior, and you'll find most people (in general, not those that are members of this forum) would think so too. Afterall, it is in line with the overall Windows 7 theme, and there's not too many people in the public wanting the Windows 95 interface back over the flashyness of the Windows 7 one :)

Having a really nice, pleasant to look at GUI doesn't have to affect functionality or speed at all... If a few coloured buttons slows down your computer I'm not sure how it can actually display the picture properly :D

In all seriousness, the suggestion of having something similar to the WMP design isn't a bad one at all. It can still retain its name too, 'classic' referring to the way you use it.

[mr.duck]

I don't like WMP12 design where the controls are on the video and fade in and out to use them. That looks nice but that's style over function. Just to be clear, I was meaning to keep MPC physically identical in terms of layout and dimensions. Just improve the look. But if you can have the option to revert back to the classic theme, then you can do whatever the hell you want because people that don't like it can just change it back.

[ranpha]

I'd have to agree the WMP seekbar and buttons do look far superior, and you'll find most people (in general, not those that are members of this forum) would think so too. Afterall, it is in line with the overall Windows 7 theme, and there's not too many people in the public wanting the Windows 95 interface back over the flashyness of the Windows 7 one :)

Having a really nice, pleasant to look at GUI doesn't have to affect functionality or speed at all... If a few coloured buttons slows down your computer I'm not sure how it can actually display the picture properly :D

In all seriousness, the suggestion of having something similar to the WMP design isn't a bad one at all. It can still retain its name too, 'classic' referring to the way you use it.

Anecdotal evidence. I also knows a lot of people that are not members of this forum that appreciate the speed of MPC-HC over WMP12, and also the superior functionality and flexibility MPC-HC also has. Should I extrapolate on that tiny amount of data?

WMP in general has always been known to have broken and unintuitive GUIs. WMP12 is no exception.

You say that nice and pleasant GUI doesn't affect functionality and speed at all. Well then, can you direct to me a video player that has flashy GUI but is also as fast and functional as MPC-HC is? KMPlayer is probably the only one come closest to it, and you people knows the reason why right?

I don't like WMP12 design where the controls are on the video and fade in and out to use them. That looks nice but that's style over function. Just to be clear, I was meaning to keep MPC physically identical in terms of layout and dimensions. Just improve the look. But if you can have the option to revert back to the classic theme, then you can do whatever the hell you want because people that don't like it can just change it back.

You mean, *change* the look? Because if WMP12 seekbar is your reference, I can't say MPC-HC will improve if the development team copied it.

Well, if you people really want transparent MPC-HC, you can do so with the help of third-party tools.

http://thumbnails24.imagebam.com/12203/d0d892122024463.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/d0d892122024463)

[burfadel]

@mr.duck - That makes sense, as long as the new design looks great and functionality isn't repaired, it would make the player massively more attractive to use.

Transparency has to be done right to look good. The standard Windows 7 title bars look good (the very top window frame of the programme, including MPC-HC frame), that pic looks absolutely crap! (I know that was your intention). Firstly, the transparency would't be behind the play window, it wouldn't apply to the buttons (only the button backgrounds), and more importantly, you wouldn't even apply transparency! The thing you need is alpha blending, and to be I think the Windows 7 application of it looks really good. Look at the start meny with the pane on the right, you have an alpha blended window that looks good over any surface. If MPC-HC were to have an alpha blended background in the controls area, it should be along the same darkness and colour as that (either dark grey or blue).

[mr.duck]

WMP in general has always been known to have broken and unintuitive GUIs. WMP12 is no exception.
You are not understanding correctly. Here is my MPC-HC as it is right now...

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/145/mpcq.png


Here is my suggestion with a crude mock up in MS paint to illustrate it...

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/430/newmpc.png

[burfadel]

Not too bad, with a slightly thicker seek bar, a filled progress bar, and a definitive current play point (not just the progression of the progress bar ending and blackness starting)...

Imagine the above with an alpha blended background to that progress bar, and that horizontal line not being there, or a different colour :)

The area that is alpha blended can be a solid colour when not using 'aero composition', or just have a toggle in the meny to turn alpha blending on and off, if the player went along those lines.

Main thing to keep in mind is whether MPC-HC is to be used by a few hundred people that like the functionality, or several thousand+ that actually find it attractive to look at, and modern too. If it had Windows 7 stylings people are much more likely to think its something good to use.

[ramicio]

The first picture...there is an actual object to click on and drag. When you just have a bar that gets filled with pixels, like the bottom picture, it's much more difficult to work, as it becomes a click-to-where-you-want-to-go game. No one said anything about sacrificed speed or functionality with a better looking GUI, we just mean that focusing on making the software 100% bug free is the priority now, and that would not be the case if they chose to then focus on making a minority of people happy with a better GUI (which is still just opinion.)

[ranpha]

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/430/newmpc.png

This sir, is ugly. The default one looks better. Sorry, but copying WMP12 broken GUIs is not something MPC-HC should do.

[mr.duck]

The first picture...there is an actual object to click on and drag. When you just have a bar that gets filled with pixels, like the bottom picture, it's much more difficult to work

I didn't think it would cause all this confusion. Just load up WMP12 and see for yourself. You can click and drag it. It works fine!! Look...

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/7971/wmp12.png




This sir, is ugly. The default one looks better. Sorry, but copying WMP12 broken GUIs is not something MPC-HC should do.
Now I know you are just being awkward because you don't want the GUI to change. Back again you are going on about WMP broken GUI. This is just the seek bar we are talking about here. In what way is it broken or ugly? Do try and use your imagination a bit. I said it was crude. I can't copy it from when it is playing a video because there would be the video showing behind the seekbar.



Since the original MPC was based on windows media player for looks, I think it would be very fitting for MPC-HC to take style cues from the current gen WMP :) I was very careful when I made my suggestion that it doesn't impact usability or function in a negative way. I hope I have demonstrated that now.

[ranpha]

Now I know you are just being awkward because you don't want the GUI to change. Back again you are going on about WMP broken GUI. This is just the seek bar we are talking about here. In what way is it broken or ugly? Do try and use your imagination a bit. I said it was crude. I can't copy it from when it is playing a video because there would be the video showing behind the seekbar.



Since the original MPC was based on windows media player for looks, I think it would be very fitting for MPC-HC to take style cues from the current gen WMP :) I was very careful when I made my suggestion that it doesn't impact usability or function in a negative way. I hope I have demonstrated that now.

WMP has broken GUIs, for at least the past 5 years at least. And as for the WMP12 seekbar, it is not better than the one that MPC-HC has, but only different. Definitely not better for sure. If you want to 'improve' MPC-HC seekbar, why copy WMP12 seekbar? At least, copy the Splash Player seekbar, which is far more functional and actually is an improvement. As it is now, you cannot say that WMP12 seekbar is better than MPC-HC seekbar, you doesn't have any demonstrable proof for that. Do not change something just for the sake of it.

[ramicio]

My bad, I didn't know that blue piece was a slider, I thought it was more along the lines of a filling progress bar.

[mr.duck]

And yet, in what way is the seekbar broken or ugly? Ok so you say it is just different and not better. That's a start. So you admit it doesn't look worse. But you can not come up with any explanation as to why it is broken, or if it was copied for MPC-HC, no explanation of how it would impact usability or function in a negative way. Therefore, I say I have indeed demonstrated successfully that it is a solid idea.

It is purely a style thing. Not changing the way the seekbar functions, just changing the way it looks.

[mr.duck]

My bad, I didn't know that blue piece was a slider, I thought it was more along the lines of a filling progress bar.

You have to hover over it or click for that little tablet thing to show up. That's why it looked missing in the mock up I did. Better if it was there all the time IMO.

[ranpha]

And yet, in what way is the seekbar broken or ugly? Ok so you say it is just different and not better. That's a start. So you admit it doesn't look worse. But you can not come up with any explanation as to why it is broken, or if it was copied for MPC-HC, no explanation of how it would impact usability or function in a negative way. Therefore, I say I have indeed demonstrated successfully that it is a solid idea.

It is purely a style thing. Not changing the way the seekbar functions, just changing the way it looks.

If it wasn't better, why copy it? Splash Player seekbar is superior to what WMP/MPC-HC has, and that's what should be copied. The developers doesn't need to waste their time moving sideways just to implement a new seekbar (copied from WMP12) that doesn't even perform better than the one MPC-HC has.

I have never said the seekbar looks worse, it is just different. WMP12 GUIs is broken though, that's for sure. I believe that you cannot demonstrate how WMP12 seekbar would be superior than MPC-HC's, so we would leave it at that. If the seekbar needs to be changed, change it for a better one. Changing it to a different one isn't improvement and is a waste of time and effort. WMP12 seekbar is not a better seekbar, Splash Player seekbar is a better seekbar. But to copy that seekbar, not only the GUI, but the internal splitters needs a big overhaul, therefore I won't expect the developers to do so.

MPC-HC has nothing to learn from WMP12. Nothing at all.

[burfadel]

I didn't think it would cause all this confusion. Just load up WMP12 and see for yourself. You can click and drag it. It works fine!! Look...

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/7971/wmp12.png





Now I know you are just being awkward because you don't want the GUI to change. Back again you are going on about WMP broken GUI. This is just the seek bar we are talking about here. In what way is it broken or ugly? Do try and use your imagination a bit. I said it was crude. I can't copy it from when it is playing a video because there would be the video showing behind the seekbar.



Since the original MPC was based on windows media player for looks, I think it would be very fitting for MPC-HC to take style cues from the current gen WMP :) I was very careful when I made my suggestion that it doesn't impact usability or function in a negative way. I hope I have demonstrated that now.

Kind of along the lines of like in the pic, the alpha-blending looks excellent, even on poor backgrounds (for transparency) like it appears like you have there. For those saying don't take design cues because WMP has a broken UI, the simple thing is... don't copy those elements! Instead, you can fix them. I think a thicker seek bar woudl be better, and a thicker endpoint, maybe even in a different colour (green?, but with the same shading styling, definitely not solid), that way there is no confusion where the seekbar is at. I guess if you pause it, that end button could go yellow, and when not playing anything (stopped), red? just an idea.

[ranpha]

Kind of along the lines of like in the pic, the alpha-blending looks excellent, even on poor backgrounds (for transparency) like it appears like you have there. For those saying don't take design cues because WMP has a broken UI, the simple thing is... don't copy those elements! Instead, you can fix them. I think a thicker seek bar woudl be better, and a thicker endpoint, maybe even in a different colour (green?, but with the same shading styling, definitely not solid), that way there is no confusion where the seekbar is at. I guess if you pause it, that end button could go yellow, and when not playing anything (stopped), red? just an idea.

MPC-HC seekbar is already thicker than what WMP12 has. It already has a fully visible progress indicator. Color? That's more of personal preference. The current white is pretty OK for me. As for transparency, you can already do that with third-party tools if that's your thing. Not my thing though.

[burfadel]

Transparency and alpha blending is different. alpha blending is like the windows 7 taskbard, and programme window frames (especially the top bar). transparency can look really crap! When I wrote that, I was referring to what could be better with the WMP pic, I realised re-reading that it might cause some confusion :)

Alpha-blending isn't a necessity for the media player, its just a nicety to appeal to users and it can be turned off :)

[ranpha]

Transparency and alpha blending is different. alpha blending is like the windows 7 taskbard, and programme window frames (especially the top bar). transparency can look really crap! When I wrote that, I was referring to what could be better with the WMP pic, I realised re-reading that it might cause some confusion :)

Alpha-blending isn't a necessity for the media player, its just a nicety to appeal to users and it can be turned off :)

Transparency can be achieved by using alpha blending, kinda what like you can do with MPC-HC (with third-party programs) and Winamp (built-in feature). So they are closely related.

[mr.duck]

If it wasn't better, why copy it?
Because it looks better and is desirable.

I believe that you cannot demonstrate how WMP12 seekbar would be superior than MPC-HC's
It would be functionally the same but look better which would make it an improvement.


Who here has Windows 7 and disables aero glass because it isn't better, just 'different' ? ...No one? Oh wait, just you, ranpha ;)


This shows better what I had in mind...

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8862/mpccopy.png

I tried making it bigger but didn't look right. It is a copy paste job from WMP12. Anyone but ranpha have anything bad to say about it with an explanation?

[ranpha]

Because it looks better and is desirable.


It would be functionally the same but look better which would make it an improvement.


Who here has Windows 7 and disables aero glass because it isn't better, just 'different' ? ...No one? Oh wait, just you, ranpha ;)


This shows better what I had in mind...

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8862/mpccopy.png

I tried making it bigger but didn't look right. It is a copy paste job from WMP12. Anyone but ranpha have anything bad to say about it with an explanation?


It looks better and desirable? Maybe it is just you. For me, it doesn't look better, it just looks different. I definitely doesn't desire a seekbar that isn't an improvement.

How about showing how WMP12 seekbar is superior to MPC-HC seekbar next time please. You know, like how Splash Player seekbar is superior to what MPC-HC has?

http://i.min.us/il6Z76.jpg

Now this is a feature that deserved to be copied (better than WMP12 and MPC-HC for sure). That would be a huge undertaking though, therefore I would not ask the developers to do it.

[mr.duck]

How about showing how WMP12 seekbar is superior to MPC-HC seekbar next time please.
See...
It would be functionally the same but look better which would make it an improvement.



Now this is a feature that deserved to be copied
Not interested... Chintzy (gaudy and tasteless).

[ranpha]

Prove to me that it looks better. You can't.

Splash Player seekbar doesn't look better than MPC-HC seekbar either, but it is more functional. Calling it gaudy proves that you prioritize looks over functions.

If there are no improvement function-wise, there are no reason at all to copy WMP12 seekbar. It may look better to you, but can you say that for all people that uses MPC-HC/WMP12? Or even amjority of them.

[mr.duck]

Prove to me that it looks better.
No.


Splash Player seekbar doesn't look better than MPC-HC seekbar either, but it is more functional. Calling it gaudy proves that you prioritize looks over functions.
It proves I do not want to look at that hideous mess of a GUI for features that I do not care about. Call me old fashioned, but I like my seekbar to be a just a seekbar. MPC-HC's seekbar is already perfect in function. I doubt you can improve upon it, but do have a go if you can.


If there are no improvement function-wise, there are no reason at all to copy WMP12 seekbar. It may look better to you, but can you say that for all people that uses MPC-HC/WMP12? Or even amjority of them.
I will answer your point the same as before. The reason to copy it is to look better. Please try and make note of that. I am getting a little tired of repeating myself. And yes. I can say that the majority of people will like it. I do have a sense of taste you know.

[ranpha]

It proves I do not want to look at that hideous mess of a GUI for features that I do not care about. Call me old fashioned, but I like my seekbar to be a just a seekbar. MPC-HC's seekbar is already perfect in function. I doubt you can improve upon it, but do have a go if you can.



I will answer your point the same as before. The reason to copy it is to look better. Please try and make note of that. I am getting a little tired of repeating myself. And yes. I can say that the majority of people will like it. I do have a sense of taste you know.

Splash Player seekbar has that mini-preview function, which neither MPC-HC or WMP12 doesn't have. That alone makes it better than what those two players has. It wasn't the look that makes Splash Player seekbar better, it was the extra functionality that makes it better. In fact, I didn't know any other player that has similar functions.

And it is only you who think that WMP12 seekbar looks better. For me, it doesn't look better, it is just different. And let me repeat this again: There are no reason whatsoever for MPC-HC to copy WMP12 seekbar at all. It doesn't look better. And here's the kicker, I can say that the majority of people will agree with me. I do have a sense of functionality you know. At least, if the seekbar need to be changed, at least do it for a better one. WMP12 seekbar is not better than what MPC-HC currently has.

[mr.duck]

Splash Player seekbar has that mini-preview function, which neither MPC-HC or WMP12 doesn't have. That alone makes it better than what those two players
Don't care / not interested / makes it worse / bloatware.


There are no reason whatsoever for MPC-HC to copy WMP12 seekbar at all.
Yes there is. It is to improve the look of the interface to make it more pleasant to look at.


I do have a sense of functionality you know.
Hey me too :). That's why I kept functionality the same in my suggestion so as not to impede usability as your suggestion does.

[ranpha]

Don't care / not interested / makes it worse / bloatware.


Therefore, I am right to say that you prefer look over function earlier.


Yes there is. It is to improve the look of the interface to make it more pleasant to look at.


Only you says that WMP12 looks better. Do you think everyone shares your view? I dare say the answer is no. WMP12 seekbar doesn't look better to my eyes, and as I say before, you won't be able to prove it empirically.



Hey me too . That's why I kept functionality the same in my suggestion so as not to impede usability as your suggestion does.


My suggestion actually improves functionality. Yours doesn't.

[mr.duck]

Therefore, I am right to say that you prefer look over function earlier.
No you're not. See...
It proves I do not want to look at that hideous mess of a GUI for features that I do not care about. Call me old fashioned, but I like my seekbar to be a just a seekbar. MPC-HC's seekbar is already perfect in function. I doubt you can improve upon it, but do have a go if you can.



Only you says that WMP12 looks better. Do you think everyone shares your view? I dare say the answer is no.
No big deal. Probably it is trivial to add an option to keep the old, classic seekbar.



WMP12 seekbar doesn't look better to my eyes, and as I say before, you won't be able to prove it empirically.
Hmmm. Should I at least try to prove it? For my answer, see...
No.



My suggestion actually improves functionality. Yours doesn't.
Agreed. That was rather my point. *rollseyes*



And you you still were not yet able to answer my question. You insisted that the WMP12 seekbar is broken. In what way is it broken?

[ranpha]

No you're not. See...


But when I say that MPC-HC should copy Splash Player seekbar that ACTUALLY ADDS FUNCTIONALITY, you resist. Hmm...

Yet, you


No big deal. Probably it is trivial to add an option to keep the old, classic seekbar.


Even it Splash Player, the SmartSeek function is optional you know.


Hmmm. Should I at least try to prove it? For my answer, see...



Oh you cannot prove it empirically after all.

Meanwhile, I can easily prove that Splash Player seekbar is better, by just pointing to the SmartSeek feature. Which seems to be exclusive only for it, and is optional.



And you you still were not yet able to answer my question. You insisted that the WMP12 seekbar is broken. In what way is it broken?



Did I say the WMP12 seekbar is broken?

What I have said were:-

- WMP12 seekbar is different, and not better.
- Meanwhile, WMP12 GUIs as a whole is broken beyond help.

Therefore, it is waste of developers time and energy just to reimplement a new seekbar that doesn't even universally accepted to be aesthetically better than MPC-HC current seekbar. If it adds new functionality, then I don't mind. But it doesn't, therefore the developers are better off spending their time fixing decoder bugs (the latest stable build seems to have some DXVA problems with ATI GPUs) than reimplementing a new seekbar that doesn't improve functionality.

[mr.duck]

In your opinion, mind.

[mr.duck]

Just installed Splash Player. The seekbar is even worse than MPC or WMP12. It makes me sad that you would try and ruin the MPC-HC project with this bloat and bad design, ranpha. Shame on you.

For others, Splash Player is your typical commercial bloatware which is all the beauty is only skin deep. It wouldn't even deinterlace the video and there is only very basic control over the options. It is dumbed down trying to get $19.99 out of dumb users that don't know any better.

[ranpha]

In your opinion, mind.

So, stop putting words in my mouth that I said WMP12 seekbar is broken. Just go see my past posts in this thread (I don't edit them) and quote me then.

Just installed Splash Player. The seekbar is even worse than MPC or WMP12. It makes me sad that you would try and ruin the MPC-HC project with this bloat and bad design, ranpha. Shame on you.

For others, Splash Player is your typical commercial bloatware which is all the beauty is only skin deep. It wouldn't even deinterlace the video and there is only very basic control over the options. It is dumbed down trying to get $19.99 out of dumb users that don't know any better.

Huh? Splash Player is at least less bloated than WMP12 ever will be. It can deinterlace videos easily (on GPU), the fact that you said that it wouldn't sums everything about your knowledge of media players really.

As for design, it wasn't the best (definitely not better than MPC-HC is), but at least is less confusing than WMP12 can ever be. It also has features that WMP12 or MPC-HC doesn't have, such as the motion interpolation and/or frame doubler and HD audio bitstreaming, which MPC-HC doesn't have built-in (you will need third-party tools) and WMP12 will never have.

And of course, that seekbar. If there is something Splash Player has that is FUNCTIONALLY SUPERIOR (and not aesthetically) than either MPC-HC or WMP12 is, it is the SmartSeek seekbar. The ability to preview videos before scrubbing is definitely a nice feature to have, and it is optional too.

[mr.duck]

So, stop putting words in my mouth that I said WMP12 seekbar is broken. Just go see my past posts in this thread (I don't edit them) and quote me then.
We were discussing the seekbar only and you repeatedly said things like WMP has always had broken and unintuitive GUIs. So it's your own fault lol.



Huh? Splash Player is at least less bloated than WMP12 ever will be. It can deinterlace videos easily (on GPU), the fact that you said that it wouldn't sums everything about your knowledge of media players really.
Yup sure. I can't believe you paid $19.99 for the pro version. No wonder you are mad lol.



As for design, it wasn't the best (definitely not better than MPC-HC is), but at least is less confusing than WMP12 can ever be. It also has features that WMP12 or MPC-HC doesn't have, such as the motion interpolation and/or frame doubler and HD audio bitstreaming, which MPC-HC doesn't have built-in (you will need third-party tools) and WMP12 will never have.
Cool! Sounds super awesome! I wish I could have that. But as you say, my knowledge of media players is too low :'(



And of course, that seekbar. If there is something Splash Player has that is FUNCTIONALLY SUPERIOR
No it isn't. I tried it.

[ranpha]

We were discussing the seekbar only and you repeatedly said things like WMP has always had broken and unintuitive GUIs. So it's your own fault lol.


Yet, you want to accuse me of saying that WMP12 seekbar is broken, when clearly I do not.


Yup sure. I can't believe you paid $19.99 for the pro version. No wonder you are mad lol.

Cool! Sounds super awesome! I wish I could have that. But as you say, my knowledge of media players is too low :'(


It has a trial you know. Plus, there are other methods...

And I don't really see you disproving my assertion that it can do pixel-adaptive hardware deinterlacing. That disproves your assertion that Splash Player cannot do.

Next time, if you want to make false accusations (like accusing me of saying 'WMP12 seekbar is broken' or 'Splash Player doesn't do deinterlacing'), how about doing some fact-checking first?


No it isn't. I tried it.


So apparently you think the Smartseek isn't a feature. At least I can quantify that Splash Player seekbar has extra features in it.
Can you say the same thing about WMP12 seekbar, that looks beautiful to your eyes only? That you want MPC-HC to copy?

At least I won't insist MPC-HC developers to copy Splash Player seekbar (the internal splitters needs to be fixed too for that to happen - which is a huge undertaking).

[mr.duck]

I'm confused. What point are you trying to make?

[ranpha]

I'm confused. What point are you trying to make?

Let me repeat what I say then. If there are no new functionality, do not replace the seekbar. That's about it. Replacing it because of a reason like 'WMP12 seekbar look better and desirable' is a waste of time, considering other bugs in MPC-HC.

Developers are better off fixing the 10-bit/floating point renderer issues (or maybe, give EVR custom presenter a proper 2-pass bicubic upscaler) is better than a brand new seekbar that doesn't have a new functionality.

After all, what looks good for you doesn't mean it looks good for everyone else.