MPC-HC GothSync tryouts [Archive] - Page 14

THX-UltraII

11th March 2010, 14:03

I assume you have tried moving the sync target?
What is moving the sync target? Do you mean 'Renderer Settings>VSync>Decrease/Increase vsync offset', or do you mean changing 'MPC-HC Options-EVR Sync Settings-Target sync offset ...ms value'?

What synchronisation settings are you using? What refresh rate? can you post a screenshot with the OSD displayed when you have the tearing (so we can see what is ahppening to the red and green lines)?
I use sync video to display because I use exact matching ATI profiles.

I use 1920x1080@23,976(23ati profile) for NTSC (HD) movies,1920x1080@50Hz(50ati profile) for PAL (HD) and 1920x1080@59,970(59ati profile) for TV based material.

Can post a screenshot tonight.

try D3D mode. Even with its current restrictions that is what I use all the time other than when testing
can t use MPC-HC menu and used to have major lip-sync issues in the past with this option.

Jong

11th March 2010, 16:06

What is moving the sync target? Do you mean 'Renderer Settings>VSync>Decrease/Increase vsync offset', or do you mean changing 'MPC-HC Options-EVR Sync Settings-Target sync offset ...ms value'?The latter.

Can post a screenshot tonight.
That will help, I hope.

can t use MPC-HC menu and used to have major lip-sync issues in the past with this option.Yep. Not being able to use right click menu is a downside. Or rather you can enable it under renderer settings, but that basically throws away all the benefits so there is no point (option should be removed IMO). That is why, as I understand it, ar-jar is working on better support for D3D mode that will allow us to switch in and out of it when we need to. But I find in "normal mode", i.e. when not debugging issues or otherwise testing, I never need the right-click menu anyway. All the changes I need to do during playback are mapped to keys on my remote.

D3D mode should not cause lip sync issues might be worth trying it again. If the tearing is fixed this may go away too.

THX-UltraII

11th March 2010, 17:03

The latter.

That will help, I hope.

Yep. Not being able to use right click menu is a downside. Or rather you can enable it under renderer settings, but that basically throws away all the benefits so there is no point (option should be removed IMO). That is why, as I understand it, ar-jar is working on better support for D3D mode that will allow us to switch in and out of it when we need to. But I find in "normal mode", i.e. when not debugging issues or otherwise testing, I never need the right-click menu anyway. All the changes I need to do during playback are mapped to keys on my remote.

D3D mode should not cause lip sync issues might be worth trying it again. If the tearing is fixed this may go away too.

thxz for the replies again.
I ll post a screen tonight

What about the value in ms? I have a 23,976Hz profiles, a 50Hz profile and a 59,970Hz profile. I can remember that Ar-Jar told that you need to pick specific values when using 23,976Hz and 50-60Hz. So this would mean I constantly have to change this value when I wsitch between PAL and NTSC material. Or is there some kind of average ms that I can use that s ok for all my profiles? (hope you understand what I mean:))

Jong

11th March 2010, 17:23

thxz for the replies again. I ll post a screen tonight What about the value in ms? I have a 23,976Hz profiles, a 50Hz profile and a 59,970Hz profile. I can remember that Ar-Jar told that you need to pick specific values when using 23,976Hz and 50-60Hz. So this would mean I constantly have to change this value when I wsitch between PAL and NTSC material. Or is there some kind of average ms that I can use that s ok for all my profiles? (hope you understand what I mean:)) Tell us what it is currently set at, what refresh rates you get tearing at and let's have a look at that screenshot, before we start changing things.

Leak

11th March 2010, 20:08

Yep. Not being able to use right click menu is a downside. Or rather you can enable it under renderer settings, but that basically throws away all the benefits so there is no point (option should be removed IMO).
Works fine for me - I get no tearing/stuttering with Aero disabled and this option enabled.

Granted, I get tearing when the context menu is up, but as soon as I close it the video is smooth again.

So exactly what is your problem with the D3D GUI option, if I may ask?

np: The Seasons - Trois (Undone)

Jong

11th March 2010, 20:47

By necessity it disables the extra buffering that gives D3D mode its main advantage.

Generally D3D fullscreen should be tearing-free with almost any parameters. The drawback is that if you use the fullscreen gui-support you lose all benefits of D3D fullscreen wrt tearing so I have disabled fullscreen gui support for the time being.

Are you saying you get tearing without D3D mode, but you do not with it, even with the GUi option on? Because I do not get tearing with EVR sync with or without D3D mode. I use it solely so I can use Reclock to control vsync, which only works with overlay or VMR9/EVR in D3D mode. If you get tearing without D3D mode, but you don't with it, even with GUI on, it may just be a subtle change in timing that is fixing it rather than the extra buffering.

ar-jar

11th March 2010, 21:43

By necessity it disables the extra buffering that gives D3D mode its main advantage.

Are you saying you get tearing without D3D mode, but you do not with it, even with the GUi option on? Because I do not get tearing with EVR sync with or without D3D mode. I use it solely so I can use Reclock to control vsync, which only works with overlay or VMR9/EVR in D3D mode. If you get tearing without D3D mode, but you don't with it, even with GUI on, it may just be a subtle change in timing that is fixing it rather than the extra buffering.

With the right timing parameters and no heavy shaders or resizers, i don't get tearing in any mode with my cheap ATI gfx board. D3D with GUI support on the other had is no better than windowed mode full-screen. I have never had tearing with plain vanilla D3D / exclusive mode full-screen. And engineering-wise i prefer it because it doesn't get messed up by the window manager or anything else like that. -A

Peuj

11th March 2010, 23:55

STaRGaZeR

12th March 2010, 01:47

Hi ar-jar,

When I active the option in MPC: "Subtitles -> Allow animation when buffering" it creates some "lags" when playing files with external subtitles (including mvk).
It's worst with EVR-CP.

It is known or a normal issue ?

Thanks

Here too, the higher the subtitle resolution the worse the lags and stuttering get. I think there's a ticket for this, but I'm not sure.

Peuj

12th March 2010, 07:56

ok thanks for the info.

Jong

12th March 2010, 13:28

With the right timing parameters and no heavy shaders or resizers, i don't get tearing in any mode with my cheap ATI gfx board. D3D with GUI support on the other had is no better than windowed mode full-screen.Ditto, I suspect THX-Ultra's problem is fixable either by changing sync timing or, if he is using some funky shaders, backing off on those.

@THX,

If you need more help can you:

- tell us the EVR sync renderer settings you have set
- at which refresh rates you get tearing?
- what shaders you are using and overall what filters you are using? if using ffdshow what post-processing are you doing?
- post that screenshot showing the EVR Sync renderer OSD when tearing is occuring, or if the OSD gets rid of tearing (as it might) at least a screenshot at the same refresh rate and with all other settings the same (filters/shaders/sync offset etc.)

pirlouy

12th March 2010, 19:54

Jong

13th March 2010, 16:28

I'd ask the same questions I asked of THX, and, of course, full system specs, even if it just helps understand why/when this problem is occuring.

ADude

14th March 2010, 03:16

The short answer is no, sorry. Does this also happen with the other DirectX-based renderers? Have you experimented with Disabling Desktop Composition (just guessing a bit here)? -A

There is no Desktop Composition in Vista Home Basic.

And I tried with EVR Custom Presenter and the problem does not exist with that renderer.

So, it is a bug introduced by EVR Sync.

(Again, just for reference, it is stuttering introduced when using VNC to display the HT PC's desktop on another PC, and the stuttering goes away if the VNC viewer is disconnected.)

PS EVR Sync continues to be perfect in displaying 25fps on a 60hz display, while EVR Custom Presenter still has tearing and other issues when trying to do that, so I still prefer EVR Sync due to "Present at Nearest...".

tetsuo55

14th March 2010, 12:07

There is no Desktop Composition in Vista Home Basic.

And I tried with EVR Custom Presenter and the problem does not exist with that renderer.

So, it is a bug introduced by EVR Sync.

(Again, just for reference, it is stuttering introduced when using VNC to display the HT PC's desktop on another PC, and the stuttering goes away if the VNC viewer is disconnected.)

PS EVR Sync continues to be perfect in displaying 25fps on a 60hz display, while EVR Custom Presenter still has tearing and other issues when trying to do that, so I still prefer EVR Sync due to "Present at Nearest...".A lot of testing has been done, and the "lack" of AERO is highly likely to be the cause of the tearing without EVR-Sync.
EVR-Sync is being re-designed to to be independent from AERO in fullscreen mode.

THX-UltraII

15th March 2010, 11:08

@Jong: haven t found the time yet to post screenshots. I ll post them beginning of this week.

However, I know that the 'bottom-tearing issue' isn t a config problem on my specific setup but a bug that needs (and will) to be fixed be the MPC dev. team.

There is also another reason why I HAVE to use EVR CP:
When using EVR CP there becomes an option available in the renderer settings called 'Enable Frame Time Correction'. I need this option for my 1080p VC1 material to make it run smooth when not using DXVA. This option is not available when running EVR sync.

Jong

15th March 2010, 12:13

@Jong: haven t found the time yet to post screenshots. I ll post them beginning of this week.

However, I know that the 'bottom-tearing issue' isn t a config problem on my specific setup but a bug that needs (and will) to be fixed be the MPC dev. team.Don't forget to say in which refresh rates you get tearing and what the frame rate of the media you are using is at the time. And what shaders you are using and the filter chain.

littleD

15th March 2010, 19:37

There is no Desktop Composition in Vista Home Basic.

@ADude
Are you aware that Vista Home Basic does have aero theme and microsoft screwed its users?? What is more, i wrote for you, how to enable that many weeks ago, because of your complains about Beliyal work...
Heres my original post http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1323109#post1323109

Grasso

15th March 2010, 21:19

Hi,

why is synchronization so hard to archieve when one only needs to a) write a video frame to the buffer for every such vsync (given that refresh approximates a multiple of frame rate) and b) re-sample audio? Why is this not possible with Windows 98?

Another problem is speed respectively efficiency. I ran MPC plus Reclock (also for PAL-to-film slowdown), but using a Pentium III 650 and a Nvidia TNT2, DVD playback jerks. We were once told that a Pentium II 233 and a good grafics card were sufficient.

Greetings,
Grasso

STaRGaZeR

16th March 2010, 02:08

Arto, do you have any recommendations for this kind of graph? This stuff happens randomly, the renderer starts dropping frames like crazy. Then after a while, it resumes normally. I've already tried everything.

http://thumbnails24.imagebam.com/7217/0588d972163551.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/0588d972163551)

ADude

17th March 2010, 19:43

A lot of testing has been done, and the "lack" of AERO is highly likely to be the cause of the tearing without EVR-Sync.
EVR-Sync is being re-designed to to be independent from AERO in fullscreen mode.

The problem being reported here:

- has nothing to do with tearing

- is unlikely to have anything to do with Aero

You need to read the whole thread before replying.

(The problem being reported is that EVR Sync stutters when the Desktop is connected by VNC to another PC, while EVR CP has never stuttered in that situation. The tearing was cited to answer the automatic reply "Then why not just use EVR CP". I.E. That EVR Sync fixes the tearing problem without Aero and without using any Vsync method other than "Present at Nearest".)

ADude

17th March 2010, 19:46

There is also another reason why I HAVE to use EVR CP:
When using EVR CP there becomes an option available in the renderer settings called 'Enable Frame Time Correction'. I need this option for my 1080p VC1 material to make it run smooth when not using DXVA. This option is not available when running EVR sync.

And what exactly does 'Enable Frame Time Correction' do ?

For example, it could be the same technical change as some EVR Sync option.

This is why it is so important to document what these options actually do.

THX-UltraII

19th March 2010, 11:39

Jong

19th March 2010, 12:22

are you not going to bother answering the earlier questions or post your screenshot?

THX-UltraII

19th March 2010, 13:34

I promised you to do this last week, but didn t find the time for it. I ll really do it this weekend.

tetsuo55

19th March 2010, 22:50

The problem being reported here:

- has nothing to do with tearing

- is unlikely to have anything to do with Aero

You need to read the whole thread before replying.

(The problem being reported is that EVR Sync stutters when the Desktop is connected by VNC to another PC, while EVR CP has never stuttered in that situation. The tearing was cited to answer the automatic reply "Then why not just use EVR CP". I.E. That EVR Sync fixes the tearing problem without Aero and without using any Vsync method other than "Present at Nearest".)Sorry used the wrong wording, AERO takes away any stuttering and tearing by controlling the timing of frames being rendered, that said, i do agree that this is highly unlikely to be related to the vnc problem you mention.And what exactly does 'Enable Frame Time Correction' do ?

For example, it could be the same technical change as some EVR Sync option.

This is why it is so important to document what these options actually do."Frame time correction" is a hack for a problem in VC1 decoders. [Basically VC1 uses a different way to represent the timing of a frame than all other formats)

kramcd

23rd March 2010, 04:59

Hi Guys,

I have posted this question before, but didn't get a reply...

1). With regards to Fast Forwarding a video file; I have noticed that sometimes I can get MPC-HC to Ffwd at up to 128x normal speed, but most of the time it's only 4x. I'm not sure what setting has changed to enable or disable this...I do like the 128x speed though!

2). Is it possible to have MPC-HC Rewind properly, rather than the current 'slow down speed' that happens?

3). I guess if I had a 'wish list' it would include the above things, and perhaps individual settings for each movie, i.e. the ability to set subtitles on or off, make volume adjustments, adjust audio sync etc for each movie. In the same way the option to resume a movie happens, it could hold these individual settings.

ATI HD 5670, 10.2 Drivers, Q6600, P5B-E, Win 7 64 Bit, 4GB Ram,

Cheers.

namaiki

23rd March 2010, 05:53

2). Is it possible to have MPC-HC Rewind properly, rather than the current 'slow down speed' that happens?

I would doubt it as a lot of files can't really be read backwards.

kramcd

23rd March 2010, 06:04

I would doubt it as a lot of files can't really be read backwards.
It's curious as (for example) XBMC can do this with the same files.

namaiki

23rd March 2010, 06:08

http://forum.xbmc.org/showpost.php?p=373761&postcount=7

I didn't say that it's impossible.

If you want, you can still use ctrl + left arrow to skip back 5 seconds or something like that.

1). With regards to Fast Forwarding a video file; I have noticed that sometimes I can get MPC-HC to Ffwd at up to 128x normal speed, but most of the time it's only 4x. I'm not sure what setting has changed to enable or disable this...I do like the 128x speed though!

Also, what do you mean by this?
Do you mean that a 128x speed is not accessible, or that the picture just freezes while it appears to be fast-forwarding, or other?

kramcd

23rd March 2010, 06:20

http://forum.xbmc.org/showpost.php?p=373761&postcount=7

I didn't say that it's impossible.

If you want, you can still use ctrl + left arrow to skip back 5 seconds or something like that.

Also, what do you mean by this?
Do you mean that a 128x speed is not accessible, or that the picture just freezes while it appears to be fast-forwarding, or other?
OSD reports that it is only advancing at 4x (will not go any faster) and visually that appears to be the case, yet sometimes, for some reason, I've been able to speed fwd at up to 128x and you can certainly see how fast it is going!

Leak

28th March 2010, 00:43

OSD reports that it is only advancing at 4x (will not go any faster) and visually that appears to be the case, yet sometimes, for some reason, I've been able to speed fwd at up to 128x and you can certainly see how fast it is going!
I've found that the soundtrack's sample rate(!) can sometimes be a limiting factor - try resampling the audio to something lower (like 22kHz) and see if you can speed it up more then...

nightrhyme

28th March 2010, 01:20

Was looking to try this MPC HC edition but none of the provided links work.

Perhaps site is down.

Any alternative links to download ?

edigee

28th March 2010, 08:23

http://www.ostrogothia.com/video
You can get it from here. But most of ar-jar developments were already included in the main MPC-HC. It's all about the new EVR-Sync renderer (based on EVR-CP) and all the settings regarding a better sincronization of the video with the display and vice versa.
Anyway , all ar-jar work is highly apreciated in MPC-HC development.

nightrhyme

28th March 2010, 09:36

ar-jar

29th March 2010, 18:02

Ahh ok however site is still inacessible: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.ostrogothia.com/video

I seem to have an issue with my ISP. They've probably changed my IP address. I'll look into it. Thanks for pointing out. -A

EDIT: Fixed. But as pointed out, most of the stuff is already in the trunk build. I've been working on some improvements but progress has been slow.

ar-jar

2nd April 2010, 12:59

There is a new test version of MPC-HC with EVR Sync available on my blog (including source code). It attempts to enable toggling between windowed mode and exclusive mode full-screen (D3D mode) without having to restart the player. The idea is to make tear-free exclusive mode more accessible. Take it for a spin if you are adventurous. It's likely to have several bugs. I'm not sure if I'm moving in the right direction here so I haven't committed anything to svn yet.

I could also use some help hunting down some outstanding COM references that I haven't been able to find. Please let me know if you have plenty of time on your hands and some skills in DirectX and COM.

Arto

Peuj

2nd April 2010, 13:16

Hi Arto,

Is there a way to activate a debug mode with this test version to give you useful information in case of crash or issues?

Edit: I mean using DebugView.

Thanks

ar-jar

2nd April 2010, 13:25

Hi Arto,

Is there a way to activate a debug mode with this test version to give you useful information in case of crash or issues?

Edit: I mean using DebugView.

Thanks

No, this is a release build so it doesn't have debug info in it. Please let me know if you get a crash etc and I can provide a debug version. -A

Peuj

2nd April 2010, 22:37

Ok thanks. Under testing.

For the moment no crash or issues.
Don't see any difference during playback.

Official EVR Sync:
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/9946/oldj.jpg (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/oldj.jpg/)

New EVR Sync
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4345/newve.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/i/newve.jpg/)

ar-jar

2nd April 2010, 23:22

Ok thanks. Under testing.

For the moment no crash or issues.
Don't see any difference during playback.

Good to hear and thanks for testing. I see you're not using D3D full-screen though. Could you test too if you can toggle between D3D full-screen and windowed mode. Also across two displays if you have such a set-up. -A

Peuj

3rd April 2010, 01:08

I've set the D3D option and put MPC on my second display (like done with the previous tests).
When I open a file everything is normal then I switch to fullscreen, Aero is deactivated (I'm on Vista) and MPC is on D3D mode (No context menu,...)
Everything looks ok, excepted it looks like the green line is less "stable" or less "linear" than in the previous tests (maybe because of Aero off?).

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8801/d3dg.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/d3dg.jpg/)

I can switch back to windowed mode without issue.

Note that MPC crashes if I activate the "Launch file in fullscreen" option with D3D activated.

nlnl

6th April 2010, 08:36

ar-jar
Thanks for the renderer!
And could you port FTC (Frame time correction) option from EVR CP to your renderer for VC1 playback.
I (Vista, Nvidia 9400) have some issues with Cyberlink decoder: very slow frame rate (1/2 of original).

Matching_Mole

6th April 2010, 21:40

As nlnl I'm facing to the same issue with VC1 codec. But the Frame time correction option is just a workaround, the real issue is into the m2ts splitter and it will be great if this can be fixed one day!

maxxximilian

20th April 2010, 16:49

I also have bottom tearing with EVR-sync, and it's not a problem with sync timing, sure.

We are several concerned by this bottom tearing. I really think any EVR Sync option can't change that (except enabling Aero).

But it's not a big problem, since we can use other renderer meanwhile ar-jar implements Direct 3D in Fullscreen.

I have also the same tearing on bottom and I I can't use Fullscreen D3D either because then I will get stuttering.
I think this is somehow related to newer ATI graphics cards, I have currently Radeon 5850 but same tearing was with previous Radeon 4890 card, too. Rest of the computer: i7-920, 6GB RAM, Creative XFi Titanium sound card, Win 7 x64, 20" LCD and 42" Plasma TV (via HDMI, Extended desktop). Tearing is on both screens and even if I disable one screen.
ar-jar test build is acting the same way.

pirlouy

21st April 2010, 21:35

I have a nVidia 8800GT, so I don't think it's driver related.

maxxximilian

22nd April 2010, 12:01

I have a nVidia 8800GT, so I don't think it's driver related.
Oh, what renderer/settings do you use then to avoid tearing?

pirlouy

22nd April 2010, 12:15

- Overlay Mixer
- ffdshow does the decoding, post-processing, subtitles
- MPC-HC changes refresh rate according to video
- Reclock deals with Sync.

maxxximilian

23rd April 2010, 07:07

- Overlay Mixer
- ffdshow does the decoding, post-processing, subtitles
- MPC-HC changes refresh rate according to video
- Reclock deals with Sync.
I prefer MPC internal subtitling because then subtitles are all the time in same place and size, unfortunately they don't work under Overlay Mixer. It seems I have to live with tearing or change player then.

pirlouy

23rd April 2010, 07:52

Yet, I've seen players which are able to add subtitles to Overlay Mixer, so it should be possible for MPC-HC.

Indeed, internal subtitles of MPC-HC with EVR are very nice. But nobody works on subtitles renderer right now, and I don't want to be captive because of a feature which is not in development.

But, with ffdshow, since I let it do the upscaling, then add subtitles, subtitles are all at the same size whatever the size of video is.