MPC-HC GothSync tryouts

[leeperry]

I spent years trying to find the perfect player ... and now, i've got it, thanks to your work [..]
bye bye reclock, powerstrip, mad renderer, haali
hey man! care to share more details please?

can it do bit-perfect KS/WASAPI audio, gamut conversion(through PS script in MPC possibly?), 25/23.976fps@24/48Hz, as smoothly as madVR+Reclock and w/o any dropped frame WHATSOEVER? I haven't tried ar-jar's code in a while, and I'm well aware that he's got a lot of tricks up his sleeve...so more details would be most welcome ;)

last time I tried his VMR9 based player, it was more aimed at ATi users..

[SundaY82]

The download links should work again! -A
Still cant get the download links to work on your download page, http://www.ostrogothia.com/?page_id=1213

[ar-jar]

Still cant get the download links to work on your download page, http://www.ostrogothia.com/?page_id=1213

I think my ISP is using the Christmas holiday for sysadmin. I have added another link to the 9018 patch version. It's probably slower but it should work if the rest of the site works since it's on the same server.

[ar-jar]

I have merged the GothSync code with the regular MPC-HC build. It can be downloaded as usual from my blog. It's also committed to the SVN trunk.

The Sync Renderer is now the last option in the ever longer list of renderers. When it's selected, further sync options can be set through the Options -> Playback -> Synchronization dialog. More documentation can be found on the blog (may be slightly out of date).

Hopefully I didn't break too many things along the way :-)

[Keiyakusha]

Just a few things:
Where the "fullscreen monitor" menu located now?
There is a lot of renderers now. Maybe it will be better to make dropdown menu for them just like for audio renderers?
Since original project was named GothSync, IMHO its fine to live that name for the renderer, unless you don't like it anymore...

[scharfis_brain]

just a question, even if it is not possible, though.

Would it be possible within the renderer to insert blended frames during playback in realtime to maintain motion fluidity with unsyncable framerates?

example: 24fps on 60Hz display
standard pattern: A A A b b C C C d d (the usual 3:2 pattern arises)
frameblending: A A Ab b b C C Cd d d (every frame is being shown exactly 2.5 times on the screen due to the blending)

I found the blending being barely noticable. It produces very smooth motion.
I am using it all time now with AVISynth in ffdshow during playback.
But it is clumsy to set up and I need to touch the settings everytime I switch the screens.

This also works for arbitrary framerate conversions as long as the framerate of the video is less than half of the screens refresh rate.

[ar-jar]

Just a few things:
Where the "fullscreen monitor" menu located now?
There is a lot of renderers now. Maybe it will be better to make dropdown menu for them just like for audio renderers?
Since original project was named GothSync, IMHO its fine to live that name for the renderer, unless you don't like it anymore...

Not quite sure what you mean by "fullscreen monitor menu" but there are some options in the pop-up menu under Renderer Settings -> Presentation. I'll think about the "Goth" part. Thanks :-)

[ar-jar]

just a question, even if it is not possible, though.

Would it be possible within the renderer to insert blended frames during playback in realtime to maintain motion fluidity with unsyncable framerates?


This is a very interesting feature and afaik there is OSS code available (?). My first prio is to stabilize the renderer. Then I'll start looking at the feature requests. Have you added it to http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/report/9?

[scharfis_brain]

uh_oh, do I really need to create a user account on sourceforge to enter a feature request?

[fastplayer]

^Yes.

[carnage_pl]

When language is preset to another than english when you try to go into settings error appears: Encountered improper argument

[ar-jar]

When language is preset to another than english when you try to go into settings error appears: Encountered improper argument

Sorry, I have never compiled anything but an English version. Do you use a decimal point (English style) or a decimal comma (as in Scandinavia) in your culture?

[XhmikosR]

@ar-jar: you need to update all the resources like you did for mplayerc.rc otherwise what carnage_pl said happens with other than English languages.

[carnage_pl]

Decimal comma. I had to check that because I never thought about it :D

[Leak]

Where the "fullscreen monitor" menu located now?

If you mean the drop-down to select the fullscreen monitor - that's on the playback page now together with the setting for fullscreen resolution...

np: Bibio - Dwrcan (Eskmo Remix) (The Apple And The Tooth)

[ar-jar]

@ar-jar: you need to update all the resources like you did for mplayerc.rc otherwise what carnage_pl said happens with other than English languages.

Yeah, thanks, I realize that now... Is there a tool for merging my changes? I guess I would need to add the changes in English and then let somebody native take over?

[ar-jar]

@ar-jar: you need to update all the resources like you did for mplayerc.rc otherwise what carnage_pl said happens with other than English languages.

Ok, I'm at it, sorry for this omission. It'll take some time though I'm afraid. Thanks for clearing out how the linguistic part of mpc-hc works. -A

[ar-jar]

Decimal comma. I had to check that because I never thought about it :D

What's your language btw? I'll see to it that I fix that resource file first. -A

[carnage_pl]

What's your language btw? I'll see to it that I fix that resource file first. -A
Polish

[ar-jar]

Polish

I committed a new Polish resource file (+ Swedish and German). I did the Swedish translation but leave the Polish to you. -A

[STaRGaZeR]

Hey Arto, welcome back :)
Have you considered adding the status of the EVR buffers to the stats just ike EVR Custom? They are very useful.

[ar-jar]

Hey Arto, welcome back :)
Have you considered adding the status of the EVR buffers to the stats just ike EVR Custom? They are very useful.

I could do that. What do learn from those stats? -A

[STaRGaZeR]

In perfomance limited scenarios you can see how many frames need to be buffered to maintain realtime playback, you can see if you're limited by the decoder speed if the buffers are not always full, for example, when using Avisynth scripts in ffdshow with filters that are single threaded, and you can also see if and how particular settings help in those cases. I consider it a pretty useful feature.

[mark0077]

Remove. Wrong thread

[ADude]

I think what you are saying is that MPC-HC builds from 1465 will have "Sync Renderer" included ?

If so, no one has mentioned that in the regular MPC-HC thread.

I did not do so, since I think ar-jar should be allowed to do so himself, and say what he wants to say about it.

[ar-jar]

Hey Arto, welcome back :)
Have you considered adding the status of the EVR buffers to the stats just ike EVR Custom? They are very useful.

I added the stats. There is a new version under the "Private builds" heading on my download page (http://www.ostrogothia.com/?page_id=1213). Hope they were the right stats. -A

[Remicade]

Noob question: right click, renderer settings, display stats: what is the ideal case the red line and the green line appear ? Paralel, zigzag ?

[ar-jar]

Noob question: right click, renderer settings, display stats: what is the ideal case the red line and the green line appear ? Paralel, zigzag ?

Parallel. Check out the documentation here (http://www.ostrogothia.com/?page_id=1218). There is some getting-started documentation here (http://www.ostrogothia.com/?page_id=1216). -A

[Jong]

ar-jar, any chance of you being able to support DVD Menus with the Cyberlink MPEG-2 decoder, or is this out of your control? I loved using this decoder on XP, but currently must use the MPC decoder on W7 for full menu support with EVR and your renderer.

[STaRGaZeR]

I added the stats. There is a new version under the "Private builds" heading on my download page (http://www.ostrogothia.com/?page_id=1213). Hope they were the right stats. -A

Yup, they are. Thanks!

[hdboy]

Just a few things:
Where the "fullscreen monitor" menu located now?


options > playback

questions:

1) if gothsync is vmr9 based, why does the guide says EVR needs to be installed?

2) my TV accepts 24hz or 60hz. Is it possible to set MPC to automatically switch the refresh rate to 24hz for 23.976fps material, and 60hz for everything else?

[ar-jar]

options > playback

questions:

1) if gothsync is vmr9 based, why does the guide says EVR needs to be installed?

2) my TV accepts 24hz or 60hz. Is it possible to set MPC to automatically switch the refresh rate to 24hz for 23.976fps material, and 60hz for everything else?

1) It's EVR-based. It used to be VMR-based in the old player.

2) It would but it would require a bit of programming. Pls add it to the feature requests. Thanks.

-A

[ar-jar]

ar-jar, any chance of you being able to support DVD Menus with the Cyberlink MPEG-2 decoder, or is this out of your control? I loved using this decoder on XP, but currently must use the MPC decoder on W7 for full menu support with EVR and your renderer.

Need to check it out. I just very recently got myself a W7 HTPC and haven't had any time to check what works and what doesn't. I don't know of any way to get EVR and DVD menus to work on XP. I too use the Cyberlink from time to time. -A

[ADude]

The Cyberlink MPEG2 with hardware acceleration + MPC-HC + DVD menus problem was reported to the bug tracker months ago, and is reported in threads every few weeks.
The workaround I use is to use the AutoPlay detection to start an older version of MPC-HC only for DVDs (the bug actually was introduced at some point in the last year or two).

[Jong]

Need to check it out. I just very recently got myself a W7 HTPC and haven't had any time to check what works and what doesn't. I don't know of any way to get EVR and DVD menus to work on XP. I too use the Cyberlink from time to time. -AYeah, they work with Cyberlink & VMR9, but not EVR on XP, Vista or W7. It would be great if Cyberlink could be supported on W7. The current MPC decoder is not as smart at deinterlacing, does not support DXVA and has some decoding glitches.

[Jong]

The Cyberlink MPEG2 with hardware acceleration + MPC-HC + DVD menus problem was reported to the bug tracker months ago, and is reported in threads every few weeks.
The workaround I use is to use the AutoPlay detection to start an older version of MPC-HC only for DVDs (the bug actually was introduced at some point in the last year or two).I'm not that happy with this as DVDs are still a big reason to use MPC-HC and I want some of the smoothness and resizing improvements that have been made recently. But please could you tell me which is the latest version that works?

[Ger]

The results seem to change a lot if the (CTRL-I) remaining time OSD is turned on. The only difference between these two screenshots apart from a slightly different position in the same video file is the OSD state.

Using build 1473. The file is a run of the mill xvid/avi on Win7-x64 with Nvidia 8800GT.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2838/screenshot2010010323000.th.png (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2010010323000.png/)

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2952/screenshot2010010323020.th.png (http://img24.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2010010323020.png/)

CPU usage is only slightly higher with CTRL-I OSD on, barely noticeable.

[ar-jar]

The results seem to change a lot if the (CTRL-I) remaining time OSD is turned on. The only difference between these two screenshots apart from a slightly different position in the same video file is the OSD state.

CPU usage is only slightly higher with CTRL-I OSD on, barely noticeable.

Thanks, that's an interesting observation. I don't seem to be able to reproduce it right now either on my 32 bit XP or on my 64 bit w7. Something funny happened with the w7 version though (but not exactly this). Could you pls try the 64 bit build that i just recently uploaded to my site? -A

[ADude]

I'm not that happy with this as DVDs are still a big reason to use MPC-HC and I want some of the smoothness and resizing improvements that have been made recently. But please could you tell me which is the latest version that works?

1.0.11.0

which is at:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpc-hc/files/MPC%20HomeCinema%20-%20Win32/MPC-HC%20v1.0.11.0%20_%2032%20bits/mplayerc_homecinema_x86_v1.0.11.0.zip/download

If you want to use the current version with DVD, then you need to turn off hardware acceleration on MPEG2 when you want to play DVDs.

[Ger]

Could you pls try the 64 bit build that i just recently uploaded to my site? -A

The 32 and 64 bit builds behave the same as far as I can tell.

These screenshots have different framerate/decoder/container/res (film/H.264/mkv/720p) compared to the last ones, and are taken with 64-bit build 1480. Other specs are the same as last time: 8800GT/Win7-x64.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7921/screenshot2010010401110.th.png (http://img228.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2010010401110.png/)

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7826/screenshot2010010401120.th.png (http://img46.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2010010401120.png/)

The way I understand your guides the first one is normal here as well, with a more difficult/"unsyncable" framerate for my monitor casuing the increased zig-zag. When I enable OSD (second image) the spikes are there again.

Press CTRL-I again to disable OSD, and the lines are back to normal (like the first screenshot in this post) immediately.

I should say that my CPU is not the best, a 3+ year old Core 2 Duo E6300, but the CPU usage monitor on my Logitech G15 stays in the 15-25% range with or without OSD. Perhaps a few percent higher average with OSD enabled.

For the record, this is not a big issue for me. The only smoothness issues I notice (without stats/graphs) are with various deinterlacers and interlaced DVB/PAL sources (not related to your Sync Renderer of course). I rarely, if ever, notice any picture problems with progressive material (perhaps I'm used to judder). I just thought I'd mention the OSD thing in case it helps.

[mark0077]

Hi ar-jar I am having fun trying out your newly merged code. I have 3 questions for you if you have time to answer.

1) I am curious, if for example I am using a display, and with some content being a perfect divisor of my displays refresh, and some content not being a perfect divisor, must I manually switch synchronization settings.

I guess I am asking, will an option appear in the future to automatically switch from one mode to another, when perfect sync isn't possible. For example could I select to "Sync video to display" by default, and perhaps "Present at nearest vsync" otherwise. I am just not sure if I select the first sync option , what would happen if perfect sync isn't possible. Does it iternally switch to another mode?

2) My second question is, is the functionality that is given by power stript to allow "Sync display to video" feasible to code into a future version of your renderer.

3) It has probably being asked before, but will reclock like options like 25fps to 24fps speeddown (pal speeddown) be feasible in a future version :D

In essence I suppose I am asking how you envision the render progressing in terms of ease of setup / automation to make it work v well for most by default.

[ar-jar]

Hi ar-jar I am having fun trying out your newly merged code. I have 3 questions for you if you have time to answer.

1) I am curious, if for example I am using a display, and with some content being a perfect divisor of my displays refresh, and some content not being a perfect divisor, must I manually switch synchronization settings.

I guess I am asking, will an option appear in the future to automatically switch from one mode to another, when perfect sync isn't possible. For example could I select to "Sync video to display" by default, and perhaps "Present at nearest vsync" otherwise. I am just not sure if I select the first sync option , what would happen if perfect sync isn't possible. Does it iternally switch to another mode?

2) My second question is, is the functionality that is given by power stript to allow "Sync display to video" feasible to code into a future version of your renderer.

3) It has probably being asked before, but will reclock like options like 25fps to 24fps speeddown (pal speeddown) be feasible in a future version :D

In essence I suppose I am asking how you envision the render progressing in terms of ease of setup / automation to make it work v well for most by default.

It would be rather easy to implement some automation wrt selecting the right sync option and modifying the base refresh rate of the display automatically when feasible. I will probably add some functions in this territory later.

Questions 2 and 3 are tricker. Powerstrip-like functionality would require that NVidia/ATI add similar functionality to their APIs (NVidia actually accepted my change request to that effect a long time ago but I haven't had a chance to follow it up). So good contacts at e.g. NVidia would be useful to make this happen. Any leads?

Audio speed shifts require careful resampling in the general case afaik. Would I get some help with the audio, then I could handle the video part but I'm not an expert in audio. Maybe there are some OSS audio resamplers out there or somebody willing to help. -A

[mark0077]

Cheers for the replies. Well I think reclock uses an open source audio resampler, http://www.mega-nerd.com/SRC/index.html to achieve this type of audio speed down :D All seems to be open source yay :D I suppose I will add it as a long term feature request, keep up the good work anyways and I look forward to the more automated methods of selecting correct options.

Cheers.

[iSeries]

Sorry, wrong thread - moved.

[hdboy]

ar-jar: as I mentioned earlier, I think it'd be great if you could automatically select the refresh rate the display supports that is closest to the input rate. In options > playback, in addition to "Change fullscreen resolution", possibly an option like "auto select refresh rate". So if my display accepts 24p and 60p, and the material is 23.98 or 23.976, then MPC switches the refresh rate to 24p (if it's not already). If video is 29.98fps or 59.97fps or 25fps, then switch to 60p. That in conjunction with the Synchronization option I think would work very well.

Btw, why didn't you stay with the GothSync renderer name? It's rather catchy :) and more distinctive than Sync Renderer.

[avivahl]

Looking at the latest MPC-HC available from xvidvideo.ru (rev1486), I think you should switch the sync page choices from checkboxes to radio buttons. And yes, I saw that checking one choice actually unchecks the others, but this is exactly what radio buttons are for.

[avivahl]

oh, almost forgot... could you move the sync options page to be a property page of the renderer? It will make the sync renderer "less integrated" and more generic, i guess.

[ar-jar]

Looking at the latest MPC-HC available from xvidvideo.ru (rev1486), I think you should switch the sync page choices from checkboxes to radio buttons. And yes, I saw that checking one choice actually unchecks the others, but this is exactly what radio buttons are for.

Yeah, this code has survived it's original requirements. There were in the beginning some combinations that would work too. Now radio buttons are more appropriate as only one option is allowed at the time. For the time being I will focus on making the renderer as stable as possible though. Then I will beautify the GUI part. -A

[avivahl]

It's wonderful to receive such a quick response. Thank you. :-)

[Jong]

If you want to use the current version with DVD, then you need to turn off hardware acceleration on MPEG2 when you want to play DVDs.This is very useful thanks. I had not tried/realised that it was DXVA causing the problem. Maybe that will help ar-jar narrow down what needs changing to get it working.

Even in non-DXVA mode the Cyberlink decoder does not drop frames at certain fixed points in some of my DVDs like the MPC MPEG2 Decoder does :)

It has also brought to my attention how much standard resizing has improved on my new 5750 when compared with my 3850. Resizing DVDs to 1080p was as muddy as hell on my 3850. I had to use either ffdshow or just a touch of edge enhancement ("1"). Edge enhancement does not work without DXVA but even so the image with my 5750 in non-DXVA mode is almost indistinguishable from my old, much tweaked, ffdshow settings :).

I haven't tried deinterlacing yet but right now I am back using Cyberlink but in non-DXVA mode. :)