The 'Wish List' [merged]

[G_M_C]

Hi JDobbs, I've got some things for your whishlist. 1 of them might be simple enough to realize, the other might not.

It concerns the way DVD-RB handles colours when using CCE-mode. DVD-RB generates the usual AviSynth script, and end with: ConvertToYUY2().

But when reading Wilbert's posting in the "AviSynth usage" part of this forum (Click (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=879591&postcount=235)) I think you might have to change the script gereration a little bit. The AviSynth script should in fact end with: ConvertToYUY2(matrix="rec709"), because AviSynth defaults to Rec.601.

The other request is linked to this: AviSynth defaults to Rec.601 color-format and most DVD/MPeg2-streams output in Rec.709-format. So thru using AviSynth you can end up with loosing color-information (sometimes seen as DVD's that are darker when re-encoded).

To solve/help this problem maybe add/implement that DVD-RB uses the ColorMatrix filter, described in the thread Wilbert was posting in (click (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=82217&page=12)). To minimize the loss in color/luminance etc. the use of Colormatrix might be a good way to improve quality on DVD-RB's output in general.

I dont think implementation of colormatrix will be very difficult, since it only requires 1 comment in the Mpeg2Souce ()-command, and 1 command added to the generated avisynth script.

Mpeg2source("blahblah.d2v",info=3)
ColorMatrix(hints=true)

...... script as usual .....

ConvertToYUY2(matrix="rec709") <---- only when using CCE/Procoder, other Encoders need different color-planes (TMPGEnc needs RGB for ex.)

Check with Wilbert on the correctness of this example ;)

The ConvertTo... only for CCE-encoding. Qenc assumes Rec.601 afaik, and some other encoders require YV12. Thats why i opt to make the colormatrix-addition standard in all DVD-RB scripts, because it helps in keeping the best color-info possible before some form of colorplane-conversion is done.

Anyway:
My opinion is that any DVD-RB generated Avisynth script ends with the correct color-plane-conversion (using the correct matrix affcourse). This because i have more trust in AviSynth's routines than i have in the conversion-routines of most encoders. But implementing all the required color-plane conversions + selection of the correct matrix (Rec.601 or Rec 709) in DVD-RB, depending on the chosen encoder, might be more of a hassle. So I leave that as my wish. The things above are more requests for a fix ;)

Hope i was clear enough, as English isn't my native language.


EDIT:
This is the reason I mention this (quote from the Firtst posting in the thread "Colormatrix" in AviSynth usage on this forum);


ColorMatrix corrects the colors of mpeg2 streams of dvds. More correctly, those mpeg2 streams are encoded using a different set of coefficients as used by AviSynth's color conversion routines [...] with the result [...] mpeg2 clips encoded by TMPGEnc/CCE using AviSynth or VirtualDub are displayed with slighty off colors (which looks like a small difference in brightness ).


This posting mentiones only CCE/TMPGEnc, but I think it goes for other DVD-Encoders ass well, simply because DVD's natively use Rec.709.

[Sir Didymus]

Encode to HD-DVD and Blu Ray format. VC 1 or ACV support.

Yes, me too!
The backup of my 250 HD DVDs can not wait any longer...
:mad:

Well, happycase, sorry for joking, but really there are not decent players all around, there are no decent titles, and I don't even know if the decrypting of HD DVD is even possible... Don't you think this feature request is a little bit [let me do a forecast - 2 or three years] too early ?

Edit: maybe you mean DVD (MPEG2) --> HD-DVD (MPEG4) ? In this case what is the purpose for this ?

[happycase]

You got it right on your second guess. And the purpose is for getting extremely large movies down to a DVD5 or 9 for watching on a next-gen player.

[jdobbs]

I'm watching HD-DVD and Blu Ray closely. I also have plans to study and possibly add the new format(s)... but it would be quite some time and it would sure be nice if one or the other of these formats would win out and the other would fall off the edge of the planet. Instead of bumping heads, these manufacturers should settle on a technology before releasing products. The consumer is the one who suffers from this kind of "mine is better" crap. Isn't it exciting to buy a $1000 player and have to wonder if it will be nothing more than a paperweight in another year or two?

You know what would make me happy? If one of the standard DVD makers would add a chipset that accepts MPEG-4 or AVC with HD resolution -- and we could burn HD to a standard dual-layer. Both MPEG-4 and AVC can give better quality than MPEG-2 with lower bitrate requirements.

[Sir Didymus]

...Isn't it exciting to buy a $1000 player and have to wonder if it will be nothing more than a paperweight in another year or two?

That's the point. And guess that: in the meanwhile I think it's a good idea to wait and buy nothing... And together with me, few million people all around, maybe... :p

...I see long years have to pass before DVD, as standard for home entertainement, can be considered obsolete...

Cheers,
SD

[Susana]

You know what would make me happy? If one of the standard DVD makers would add a chipset that accepts MPEG-4 or AVC with HD resolution -- and we could burn HD to a standard dual-layer. Both MPEG-4 and AVC can give better quality than MPEG-2 with lower bitrate requirements.
Me too, and I think this will come true: cheap dvd9-r discs and high quality hd images; give it time.

[blutach]

Me too, and I think this will come true: cheap dvd9-r discs and high quality hd images; give it time.And maybe we will see more DVD-9 flippers and we will need to join the flippers again (we all remember using VobEdit for this, I am sure) and then encode with DVD Rebuilder (http://dvd-rb.dvd2go.org/) on bigger and bigger projects :)

Regards

[G_M_C]

:sniff:

... did my best typing a big post (English isn't easy for me), and no answer. Still dont know if my idea was good .....

:sniff:

Ahh well, ill "edit" the AVS-scripts myself for the time beeing

[jdobbs]

I'm not ignoring your post -- I'm still researching it. For instance, I need to know:

1. ColorMatrix is truly needed.
2. It doesn't cause other problems
3. It can be freely distributed
4. It actually improves the picture
5. When and where is should be used and how.
6. The affect it and the other settings have on other filters

I typically try to avoid adding filters to the installation and make them defaults unless I am thoroughly convinced it is the right thing to do.

Do I have to do a color conversion to RGB? In my initial tests using the script in your post I got AVISYNTH errors saying so... the last thing I want is an additional color conversion going on...

[G_M_C]

Sorry, guess i was a little bit too enthousiastic.

I started experimenting with the idea myself today, and found out that I read the AviSynth manual incorrectly. Where it states that "Rec709" is also available with ConvertToYUY2(), it indeed means converting from RGB. Hence the error you/we see.

I was simply mistaken with the "ConverToYUY2 - thing, it doesn't work.

The Colormatrix part of my idea could still be valid though. I will try to encode 1 segment (1001xxxx5.avs of my The Wall-DVD for instance ;) ) 2 times; 1 with and 1 without the colormatrix (). Than try to compare the 2 (exactly how i dont know yet, at least a visual check offcourse).

[jdobbs]

Maybe I'm missing something... but from my reading it appears that since we are going from MPEG-2 to MPEG-2 (DVD in and out) -- it will remain Rec709 from beginning to end anyhow (except for the DVD exceptions that might use something else). Most of what I read was concerned about doing color conversion while going to/from MPEG-4/XviD and/or DV -- which (at least to me) makes a little more sense.

[Boulder]

Not all DVDs are encoded using the Rec.709 coefficients. On some DVDs, some titles are and some are not.

[linx05]

When I start a job I find that I cannot go through the menus. Would you be able to change it so we can view all the menus of DVD-Rebuilder (keeping it greyed out) so we can check what options we have selected. This is to stop me from stopping the encode, going back to see if I enabled the right ones and then restart it.

It would save a lot of time. Then again making sure I got them right before I start would too, but hey, we all make mistakes ;).

[Susana]

Some programs, including DVDRemake, write a mark in the Provider ID field. Many users ask me if there is a way to know which program was used to compress a DVD with. My suggestion is that DVDRB puts DVD-RB v.x in Provider ID. Thanks.

[HKT3020_1]

Should you want to edit the DVD Text name and Provider ID, you can do so in PgcEdit.

[Susana]

Yes, I know, thanks, but it's preferable DVDRB does it automatically.

[blutach]

Sorry to disagree with you Susana, but I think it should leave it alone, as it does now. If I want a PID, I'll add it.

Regards

[zacoz]

Can't find it having been mentioned before, but would like to have log file saved using the name generated from the source directory e.g.

Source: d:\DVD\Family_Reunion\VIDEO_TS
Log File: Family_Reunion.log

Alternatively, as suggested (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=828047#post828047) by laserfan, have the source directory listed in the log file. Helps to identify what DVD the log relates to.

Thanks for all the hard work jdobbs.

[danpos]

@jdobbs

My current wish for DVD-RB (PRO) would be official support to Linux through Wine (I don't use WINDOW$ any more).

Thanks in advance,

[jjaomni]

better batch file selection from the add project to the batch queue . like being able to load more then one project to the batch queue at one time with a selection drag and drop into the window.

thanks
i paid for it!!

[Video Dude]

... one thing id like request to specify a custom size for the dvd output or to limit the bit rate of the main movie.
You can already do that.

See this thread for instructions:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=482090#post482090

[jdobbs]

better batch file selection from the add project to the batch queue . like being able to load more then one project to the batch queue at one time with a selection drag and drop into the window.

thanks
i paid for it!!
You can drag-and-drop multiple RDB files into the batch window now. Just drag from the Explorer window.

[Boulder]

I have four feature requests:

1) Would it be possible to add a feature to use different encoders for different VTS's? For example, some movies are highly compressible for which CCE's AQM feature would be great. Then again, they often contain extras that are truly interlaced in which case HC would be the encoder of choice.

2) The ability to add parameters to the MPEG2Source line so that I wouldn't need to use a batch text replacer every time I have run the prepare phase.

3) This is an old one: the ability to tell DVD-RB which VTS's are considered as extras and which are not. At the moment the different quant matrix for different bitrates feature is useless when you work with episodic discs.

4) The ability to encode the whole VTS at a time, that is, so that it is not split up in cells. I have seen too many DVDs that are encoded as CBR in which case this option would be really useful.

[timbotu]

How about an option to automatically set the output directory when the input directory is changed. So for example if I load

E:\DVD-IN\Gigli

it sets the output directory to

E:\DVD-OUT\Gigli

If that directory exists it sets the output directory to:

E:\DVD-OUT\Gigli-2

It sure would save a lot of clicks.

[kumi]

I'd like to second Boulder's request for the ability to add parameters to the MPEG2Source line.

Recent discussions (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=964811#post964811) have me convinced of the need for ColorMatrix in certain situations (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=965713#post965713). Without the ability to add "hints=true" parameter for MPEG2Source(), using ColorMatrix() with DVD-RB becomes a tedious manual affair.

IMO it's overkill to add ColorMatrix() as a built-in DVD-RB option, if we can add MPEG2Source parameters.

If we're able to add "info=3" to MPEG2Source(), we get hinting. Then this line added to the first line of the Filter Editor takes care of every possible coefficient conversion, in the case of Rec. 709 encoders like HC, ProCoder, and CCE. I believe it's a no-op, if the source has no colorimetry or is already Rec. 709:
p:ColorMatrix(mode="FCC->Rec.709", hints=true)
i:ColorMatrix(mode="FCC->Rec.709", hints=true, interlace=true)
p:ColorMatrix(mode="SMPTE 240M->Rec.709", hints=true)
i:ColorMatrix(mode="SMPTE 240M->Rec.709", hints=true, interlace=true)
p:ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.601->Rec.709", hints=true)
i:ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.601->Rec.709", hints=true, interlaced=true)

Edit: I just realized that chunk of code will not work. We'll have to wait for ColorMatrix to allow specifying only a dest colorimetry.

[G_M_C]

I have four feature requests:
[...]
3) This is an old one: the ability to tell DVD-RB which VTS's are considered as extras and which are not.
[...]


I've thought of something like that:
I'd like to have the option "Mark as Extra" in the editor (besides BLANK/STILL etc.). So you can mark some segments as Extra.

This way you can select segments that can be compressed more, when compined with the option "Steal space from extra's" (for instance mark out the end-credits or such). Eventually freeing up more bitrate for the main feature.

[FredThompson]

@kumi,

Isn't your "info=3" example overly complex?

"hints=true" pulls the colorimetry info from DGIndex so there's no need for explicitly stating the conversion, correct?

opt=0 reduces rounding errors.

p:ColorMatrix(hints=true, opt=0)
i:ColorMatrix(hints=true, opt=0, interlace=true)
I triple the request for "info=3". Don't Robert's Rules of Order mean we now call for a vote? :P

[kaitsuburi]

Being able to change/add mpeg2source parameters would be nice for those of us who use colormatrix. I use a script for the "info=3" addition, but it would be nice to have the feature in DVD-RB.

So, a fourth request ;)

-kaitsuburi
(DVD-RB registered user)

[jdobbs]

Unfortunately the track record with adding these kinds of options hasn't been good -- mainly because people like to blame DVD-RB rather than look at the things they add themselves. Look through the forum and count the number of times people post complaining that DVD-RB doesn't work or is too slow -- and then when they post their INI file (after I spend 2 days debugging) you see it has 80 lines of redundant filters that couldn't possibly work.

But... being the dumbass (errr... I mean "customer focused individual") that I am, I'll add a hidden option that will allow you to add parameters to the MPEG2DEC() line. :)

[jdobbs]

@kumi,

Isn't your "info=3" example overly complex?

"hints=true" pulls the colorimetry info from DGIndex so there's no need for explicitly stating the conversion, correct?

opt=0 reduces rounding errors.

p:ColorMatrix(hints=true, opt=0)
i:ColorMatrix(hints=true, opt=0, interlace=true)
I triple the request for "info=3". Don't Robert's Rules of Order mean we now call for a vote? :PDoes it truly pull the colorimetry information? I couldn't find that in the documentation anywhere. In fact, it seems to indicate that the default would be used ("Rec.709->Rec.601") -- which wouldn't be good for DVD as it is backwards...

Another thing I don't like about the way it works is the unnecessary slowdown.

For example, I added this line:

ColorMatrix(hints=true, opt=0)

to a file that was Rec.709, the encode speed dropped from 5.25x to about 3.7x, even though no conversion was necessary. Actually I think it went the other way (Rec.709->Rec.601) but I haven't checked it.

Honestly I even did the conversion on some sources that were Rec.601 (menus)... and I couldn't see a noticable difference in the encoded color after running it through CCE. But, of course, others may see things differently or there may be other examples that are different.

Please don't get me wrong -- I'm not slamming the filter, as it is definitely something that is useful for many conversions... I'm just not sure whether it is needed for DVD-to-DVD conversion.

With all that said, I'm a firm believer in "to each his own" so I've added a "MPEG2SOURCE_OPTS=" hidden parameter for the next release.

[Boulder]

If you use that line, it'll do the conversion if your source is Rec.709, hence the slowdown. Also don't use opt=0 unless you are a true purist. The rounding error is insignificant with MMX or SSE2 optimized routines.

[~bT~]

IMO it's best to add them lines manually. I read somewhere, hints=true slows it down more.

I don't use hints=true, just the lines that kumi suggested in the color matrix thread.

[~bT~]

Honestly I even did the conversion on some sources that were Rec.601 (menus)... and I couldn't see a noticable difference in the encoded color after running it through CCE. But, of course, others may see things differently or there may be other examples that are different.
There is a diff.

[jdobbs]

I agree there's a difference -- otherwise there wouldn't be a need for the standards... but (at least to my eyes in the examples I've tried) I can't really see it. But then maybe it's just because the Rec.601 sources I've actually found and tested were in menus and it may not be as noticable there.

[jdobbs]

If you use that line, it'll do the conversion if your source is Rec.709, hence the slowdown. Also don't use opt=0 unless you are a true purist. The rounding error is insignificant with MMX or SSE2 optimized routines. Will it convert to Rec.601 or Rec.709?

I also tried adding "dest=0" to see if it would go faster (showing no need to convert) -- and it gave me an error saying the source/dest can't be the same.

[jdobbs]

Since DVD-RB already knows the colorimetry information while it's running (it creates the D2V)... maybe I should add another filter prefix called "c:" that get's executed whenever any part of the source (for that AVS) is anything other than Rec.709... what do you think?

[jdobbs]

Ok. I added it for the next version. So when that release comes out, if you want to have automatic color conversion you can add these lines (replacing the path with the correct one):

c:LoadPlugin("c:\the\path\to\colormatrix.dll")
c:i:ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.601->Rec.709",interlaced=true)
c:p:ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.601->Rec.709")You wouldn't need hints turned on -- as DVD-RB already knows the colorimetry at the time it is creating the AVS.

[Boulder]

Will it convert to Rec.601 or Rec.709?

I also tried adding "dest=0" to see if it would go faster (showing no need to convert) -- and it gave me an error saying the source/dest can't be the same.By default the destination is Rec.601 which is why the conversion would be done almost every time if you used hints (because most DVDs are Rec.709).

By default, source is 0 so you can't use dest=0. Nevertheless, I think there is a bug in source/dest which will be fixed in the next release. So you should simply use mode="rec.601->rec.709" to be sure.

I like the c-idea a lot, makes things a lot easier and faster since hints won't be needed :) However, there are some DVDs which have variable colorimetrics info, i.e. the movie has a different one from the credits. I don't remember exactly which titles had such things though.

[~bT~]

Since DVD-RB already knows the colorimetry information while it's running (it creates the D2V)... maybe I should add another filter prefix called "c:" that get's executed whenever any part of the source (for that AVS) is anything other than Rec.709... what do you think?
Great! When can we see the next release?:p

[jdobbs]

It'll be a while. I have a couple other things I'm working also -- and I just released a version yesterday.

[jdobbs]

By default the destination is Rec.601 which is why the conversion would be done almost every time if you used hints (because most DVDs are Rec.709).

By default, source is 0 so you can't use dest=0. Nevertheless, I think there is a bug in source/dest which will be fixed in the next release. So you should simply use mode="rec.601->rec.709" to be sure.

I like the c-idea a lot, makes things a lot easier and faster since hints won't be needed :) However, there are some DVDs which have variable colorimetrics info, i.e. the movie has a different one from the credits. I don't remember exactly which titles had such things though. That's okay as long as they are in different segments. DVD-RB collects the colorimetry data for each segment individually while doing PREPARE.

[~bT~]

^ if thats the case then i believe hints=true would need to be used.

[jdobbs]

No... because DVD-RB is gathering the colorimetry information... it doesn't need any hints. In fact it gets the data directly from the SEQUENCE_DISPLAY_EXTENSION of the MPEG stream.

[kaitsuburi]

Ok. I added it for the next version. So when that release comes out, if you want to have automatic color conversion you can add these lines (replacing the path with the correct one):

c:LoadPlugin("c:\the\path\to\colormatrix.dll")
c:i:ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.601->Rec.709",interlaced=true)
c:p:ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.601->Rec.709")You wouldn't need hints turned on -- as DVD-RB already knows the colorimetry at the time it is creating the AVS.

Thanks jdobbs, you rock :thanks:

[Boulder]

@jdobbs: I suggest that you set the parameter scaling=1 in the ColorMatrix line. It disables clamping (that is, executing Limiter) and uses scaled (16-235/240) coefficients as should be used when dealing with DVDs.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=948357#post948357

If you wish to avoid any "different colorimetry in different frames" problems, you could always use the d2v option in ColorMatrix.

[jdobbs]

Interestingly I've run into a couple of discs for which this has come in handy in my testing of the next version. In doing "Charlotte's Web", NTSC, R1 I found that the entire disc was encoded using Rec.601.

[jdobbs]

@jdobbs: I suggest that you set the parameter scaling=1 in the ColorMatrix line. It disables clamping (that is, executing Limiter) and uses scaled (16-235/240) coefficients as should be used when dealing with DVDs. I'm trying to understand why... is it because the values are already clipped before the conversion and you don't want to distort it in the simulated YUV->RGB->YUV process?

[Boulder]

I'm trying to understand why... is it because the values are already clipped before the conversion and you don't want to distort it in the simulated YUV->RGB->YUV process?16-235/240 is called "TV scale" which is as the name implies, the scale that DVDs use. Therefore it is the correct one. The scale is specified by the standard called CCIR-601.

Limiter clamps the values to 16-235/240 but many people don't like it for some reason, that's why I suggested using scaling=1 which uses the TV scale but doesn't call Limiter. I always use Limiter at the end of my scripts when doing any DVDs.

[jdobbs]

Why would we not want to clamp the values to 16-235/240 with the default "scaling=0"? I guess that's the real question I'm asking.

[Boulder]

I see no reason for that myself. However, many people complain that using Limiter turns black into dark grey (because the lowest luma value is 16) and I wanted to spare you from that. You can, of course, compare the output and see if there is any noticable difference to your eyes.

Needless to say, clamping the values will give a small compressibility boost :)