Haali Renderer

[leeperry]

well 32 frames is more than enough, I'd say.

anything above 6 is overkill from what Casimir666 told me a while ago, and creates unwanted latency I think.

and basically it's good if it's a multiple of the actual frame rate......I got it set to 6 max myself, works fine for 24fps in Reclock :D

well I use the original gamut PS script in ffdshow with the Avishader script, so it's no big deal if HR can't do it itself.

but the frames go back & forth between the GPU<>CPU, so it sucks a lot of CPU......but it's either this or use MPC HC in VMR9/EVR :eek:

and it sucks too much CPU for 1080p on my o/c Q6600, but well next year we'll all have Nehalem...

[Steveo08]

1920x1080 RGB = 32 frames
1920x1080 YUY2 = 64 frames[/QUOTE]



is that the same for 720p in hr?

[NoX1911]

how many 1080p frames can you fit in 256mb ?
1920x1080 rgb = 32 frames
1920x1080 yuy2 = 64 frames
rgb24=43
yuy2=64
yv12=86

[cyberbeing]

is that the same for 720p in hr?
No. For 1280x720:
YUY2=145
RGB32=72

rgb24=43
yuy2=64
yv12=86

Why are you listing values for RGB24 and YV12? Haali Renderer doesn't support RGB24 or YV12. The only input it supports (and caches) is RGB32 and YUY2.

[Steveo08]

[QUOTE=cyberbeing;1224767]No. For 1280x720:
YUY2=145
RGB32=72



thank you! but how did you calculate it?

[cyberbeing]

No. For 1280x720:
YUY2=145
RGB32=72


thank you! but how did you calculate it?

The simple way, if you own a video card with more then 256MB of memory, is to just set the frame cache to 256MB, open a video, and look at the Haali Renderer statistics to see how many frames it caches.

An alternative method for RGB32 is to save a uncompressed RGB32 BMP with the dimensions you want and divide the size of the BMP by 256MB (rounding down). As for YUY2, I'm not too familiar with how to save an uncompressed YUY2 image to do the same method.

[Steveo08]

The simple way, if you own a video card with more then 256MB of memory, is to just set the frame cache to 256MB, open a video, and look at the Haali Renderer statistics to see how many frames it caches.

An alternative method for RGB32 is to save a uncompressed RGB32 BMP with the dimensions you want and divide the size of the BMP by 256MB (rounding down). As for YUY2, I'm not too familiar with how to save an uncompressed YUY2 image to do the same method.



thanks for the info. :)

[RealNC]

I have big problems with Haali's renderer and some 60FPS videos I made when playing them full screen (in MPC-HC 1.1.796.0). Example video where this happens:

Video (99.8MB) (http://foss.math.aegean.gr/~realnc/vids/3DMark2000.mkv)
Mirror if above doesn't work. (http://realnc.kamenos.gr/3DMark2000.mkv)

Playing this full screen on my 1280x1024 desktop (so the renderer scales it from 640x480 to 1280x960) results in big framedrops. The video is 60FPS but Haali's can't keep up; it drops lots of frames and only does 48-50FPS. It plays fine only if I leave it windowed 1:1 with no scaling. CPU load is very low in either case. Same with GPU load (reported by Catalyst 8.12 and GPU-Z.)

This is under Windows XP SP3 on an Intel Core 2 Duo @ 3.33GHz, 4GB DDR2 RAM and a Radeon HD4870. I don't know if I'm asking for too much, but can someone confirm the problem is actually with Haali's renderer rather than with something else on my system by trying to play the video?

[cyberbeing]

I think it is a Haali Renderer issue with certain resolution/refresh combos and fullscreen 60fps content. It is something like a lag where it can't achieve 60fps but only in fullscreen. If you maximize the window (instead of going fullscreen), does the problem go away?

[RealNC]

No, it still drops frames. If I resize the window, the bigger I make it, the worse the framedrop gets. 640x480 (1:1): 60FPS. ~800x600: ~58FPS. ~1024x768: 56FPS. 1280x960: 48FPS.

[cyberbeing]

It must be a difference because you have an ATI card and I have an NVIDIA card. On mine I only see a low framerate in full screen when my monitor is set to the same resolution as yours (1280x1024@60Hz right?). Maximized or at any other resolution, it's perfect.

Edit: Well I rolled back to the Haali Renderer included with the 6/3/2007 build of MatroskaSplitter and the problem went away completely. Every build 11/18/2007 and newer seems to have a 60fps, fullscreen, low framerate problem, with certain resolution/refresh combos on my PC.
/me kicks himself for taking over a year to realize there was a problem when Haali was around more often. :(
I guess that means I should try to track down Haali and hope he still has the source code from way back then.

Edit2: PM sent to Haali

[shaolin95]

I was trying to use Haali again to compare against EVR but the image is upside down!
Any ideas? :-)

[cyberbeing]

You must be outputting RGB and using a decoder that doesn't realize it should be flipping the output (or flipping it when it should not).

[shaolin95]

I am using ffdshow and yes, using avisynth ConvertoRGB32. With EVR Cust it works fine though. Any way to correct this behavior then?

[cyberbeing]

Well it shouldn't be doing that. FFDshow and ConverttoRGB32 works fine over here. Is your ffdshow a recent tryout build (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=173941&package_id=199416)? Anything else in the filter graph except FFDshow?

When connecting FFDshow directly to Haali Renderer the output colorspace under Info&CPU should be using and report "RGB32". Video is displayed correct.
When connecting FFDshow through VSFilter and then to Haali Renderer the output colorspace under Info&CPU should be using and report "RGB32, Flipped". Video is displayed correct.

On some rare files (I would say <1%) the video ends up flipped no matter what when using Haali Renderer with RGB. Does the same thing happen to you for all files? I know I have some anamorphic xvid MKVs from 2005 which always end up flipped whenever outputting RGB32 for whatever reason. Could you upload a sample?

As a workaround you could check 'Flip video' in FFDshow's output panel, but you really shouldn't have to do that under normal circumstances.

[shaolin95]

I will check all that and report back...
thanks a lot for the suggestions cyberbeing.
BTW, is there a way to get a full report on the filters I am using to post here?

[cyberbeing]

What player are you using?

With MPC you could just right click on the video, roll over filters, hit PrtScn, and paste the resulting screenshot into paint or something.

With Zoom Player you would right click on the video, roll over filter properties, click Graph Information, expand all the + signs resize the window so everything is shown, hit PrtScn, and paste the resulting screenshot into paint or something.

[aydc]

Does anyone know if the project is still alive? It's been almost a year since the renderer was last updated.

[Astrophizz]

It's not so much a project I don't think (at least not a community one). Leeperry can probably give you the latest info since he is in touch with Haali... I think there have been updates but no official release. Maybe with coreAVC 2.0....

[Mistar Muffin]

I am having a problem with the built in resizing in Haali's renderer. My HTPC is using and unusual resolution, and I assume that's the problem. My HTPC has a custom timing of 1808x1020. This is what fits my screen. It let's me account for overscan without scaling. It works. However, when Haali upscales standard def material, such as XviD to that resolution, I get a faint checkerboard pattern in the video. It looks like very large macroblocking but it does not move. The checkboard pattern remains static in the picture. It's not easy to see but it's there. I know it is Haali becuause I can go into ffdshow and enable resizing, and I told ffdshow to resize everything to 1808 width while maintaining AR. This eliminates the artifacts (still using Haali renderer). In fact, with video fullscreen, I can use the ffdshow options to enable/disable the resizing and see the checkerboard pattern appear and disappear. Is there any chance of getting this bug fixed or is my workaround the best I'm going to get? I hate resizing everything ffdshow decodes without discrimination.

Thanks fellas.

[leeperry]

there have been updates but no official release.
yep
when Haali upscales standard def material, such as XviD to that resolution, I get a faint checkerboard pattern in the video.
and you have an ATi card, right ?
resize to native res in ffdshow, and your troubles will be far away.
the good side is that you can upscale in spline36, HR only does bicubic :o

[Steveo08]

@leeperry

is it possible to get the inofficial release from haali?

[leeperry]

@leeperry

is it possible to get the inofficial release from haali?
ask Haali http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/mrbrelle.gif

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Haali Media Splitter 2009-01-11

Haali Media Splitter

Changes

11/01/2009

New Features:

The shortcut for gdsmux is created in the start menu

Fixed items:

Broken Matroska files with looped SeekHeads could cause a hang in Matroska Parser, the number of SeekHeads is now limited to 10
Removed the workaround to find tags written by Matroska Shell Extension, this caused excessive file scanning when opening files created by recent MKVToolnix
File linking is now enabled by default




http://haali.cs.msu.ru/mkv/

[clsid]

Great news. Although the changelog is surprisingly short.

[Snowknight26]

Still has the LPCM bug, no?

[cyberbeing]

The problem with new Haali Renderer builds described in post #1261 (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1231443&postcount=1261) still exists, but considering he hasn't checked the forum since July 2008, he probably hasn't even seen my PM yet.

[STaRGaZeR]

Still has the LPCM bug, no?

Yep :(

[leeperry]

he hasn't checked the forum since July 2008
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1235639&postcount=880

[cyberbeing]

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1235639&postcount=880

Yeah, I noticed that he returned the next morning after I made that post.

leeperry, do you have both an ATI and an nVidia card now? I thought you only had an ATI but you posted a CoreAVC CUDA benchmark a few days back. What card are you using currently?

Do you have the same problem with that video RealNC posted when watching fullscreen at 1280x1024@60hz? If so, does the 6/3/2007 build of Haali Renderer fix it for you like it does for me?

[leeperry]

Yeah, I noticed that he returned the next morning after I made that post.

leeperry, do you have both an ATI and an nVidia card now? I thought you only had an ATI but you posted a CoreAVC CUDA benchmark a few days back. What card are you using currently?

Do you have the same problem with that video RealNC posted when watching fullscreen at 1280x1024@60hz? If so, does the 6/3/2007 build of Haali Renderer fix it for you like it does for me?
I got a GF9600 now.
I've just tried that sample in 1280*1024@59.940 & 1280*768@59.940 w/ Reclock, and the frame rate quickly falls to 48fps and doesn't increase much...

the 6/3/2007 build fixed the problem indeed :eek:

no wonder I had so many problems with the 50fps HD bits from ORF1, and some 59.94fps WMV's :rolleyes:

well good luck getting this bug fixed, I've annoyed Haali for the gamut for like 1 year before I got a reply...I've also told him about all the other problems for +1 year(wrong 601/709 YUY2 coeffs, ghost lines when upscaling on both nvidia/ati, uncentered zoom in RGB32 on ati, jitter problem with 23.976 MKV's in Reclock)

Haali's swamped w/ work, and doesn't have any more free time to work on his fantastic HMS/HR package :(

you still could use his latest package with the dxr.dll from the 6/3/2007 build :p

I personally don't have many videos that are >30fps, so I'll stick w/ the latest build.

[cyberbeing]

you still could use his latest package with the dxr.dll from the 6/3/2007 build :p

I personally don't have many videos that are >30fps, so I'll stick w/ the latest build.

Yep, that is exactly what I have been doing ever since I discovered it fixed it (using old dxr.dll with new everything else).

I don't run into much 60fps content either, but that 6/3/2007 build also feels like it is a bit faster all-around and keeps vsync better (smoother) with my less then exact framerate multiple refresh rates with or without Reclock. That could just be my imagination though.

The only thing I really miss in that old build is the auto selection BT.601/BT.709, but since I send it RGB most of the time anyways, it's not a major annoyance.

[iron2000]

Was hoping for some fix for the grid lines for the resize.
Not really important as ffdshow is doing the resize now.

[aydc]

Was hoping for some fix for the grid lines for the resize.
Not really important as ffdshow is doing the resize now.

Yeah that's a big problem for me too. ffdshow is not the solution because it runs on the CPU and it's slow. Haali runs on the GPU and is much faster, though image quality is not so good beacuse of these visible resize blocks.

[christpunchers2008]

I've noticed the ghostline problem with my ATI HD 3850. With an older card, the x1950, HR was perfect. With 3850, the ghostlines are always there.

But I've found a temporary "fix" to this issue using ATI Tool Tray.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Video-Tweak/ATI-Tray-Tools.shtml

Install it, right click on the icon in your taskbar on the right, go to "Tweaks > standard Tweaks". Under "Shaders", there should be an "Override Pixel Shader Version" pull down area, in there choose anything from 1.1 to 1.4 and this will force your videocard to use the selected version instead of default Pixel Shader 2.0.

Play your video again and the ghostlines should be gone with HR. However without Pixel Shader 2.0 it seems that you cannot sharpen the image with HR (the slider is grayed out). I guess this a 2.0 and above exclusive function. But IMO it's worth the trade-off. I would rather watch the material at its purest state with HR vs. using sharpening to give you pseudo HD while being FORCED to withstand those ugly ghostlines.

[leeperry]

great find, I'll pass it to my friends running ATi!

I also get ghost lines on my GF9600 sometimes, but not w/ very low zoom ratios apparently..

[Amour]

Can Haali render .xvid files?
I have issues finding something to play the softsubs from .xvid files.

[christpunchers2008]

great find, I'll pass it to my friends running ATi!

I also get ghost lines on my GF9600 sometimes, but not w/ very low zoom ratios apparently..

It seems that if I use a lower zoom or overzoom slightly and not full screen zoom the ghostlines disappear. Example: I would use 150% for a 720p video for it to fit perfectly as fullscreen, but the ghostlines are there. But if I go to 152% or 149% zoom the ghostlines are gone.

Do Nvidia have this product with HR or is it exclusive to ATi only?

[leeperry]

It seems that if I use a lower zoom or overzoom slightly and not full screen zoom the ghostlines disappear. Example: I would use 150% for a 720p video for it to fit perfectly as fullscreen, but the ghostlines are there. But if I go to 152% or 149% zoom the ghostlines are gone.

Do Nvidia have this product with HR or is it exclusive to ATi only?
well I've been traumatized by these lines on the ATi, I always send native res to HR since then :D

it's also doable through RivaTuner, I might try it....maybe HR is not as 1:1 as I initially thought :o

http://www.imlin.com/pwh/5200_tweakpage.htm

[Egh]

Can somebody post a screenshot demonstrating these ghostlines? I thought that issue was fixed long time ago...

[iron2000]

Heres one with the lines:
http://stashbox.org/488233/lines.png

[leeperry]

and it would take 5 secs to Haali to fix it....Casimir found the problem in MPC(Haali wrote the PS scaler code there too), he needs to change the sum of one of his PS scripts to 0.98 instead of 1

and same goes for the terrible jitter w/ 23.976fps MKV and Reclock....it's perfect w/ 25/29.97fps MKV, it would take him a few mins to fix the glitch(bad sync between HMS>HR?).

too bad he has no time and no plan on fixing these bugs(we had a few emails that led to NOTHING :()...this package is a lost cause, waiting for mVR to mature and moving on is the best option(MPC's MKV splitter is also becoming more and more usable, and there's the KMP MKV splitter too)

so much lost potential here, so much fantastic work done.....and yet it's :
-totally unusable w/ Reclock and 23.976 MKV(works perfectly on 25!)
-unusuable in YUY2 coz the 601/709 coeffs are messed up
-can't scale on ATi due to these ghost lines
->50fps videos stutter in the latest build, when they work fine in older ones
..and more bugs I forgot about :o

[mark0077]

and it would take 5 secs to Haali to fix it....Casimir found the problem in MPC(Haali wrote the PS scaler code there too), he needs to change the sum of one of his PS scripts to 0.98 instead of 1

and same goes for the terrible jitter w/ 23.976fps MKV and Reclock....it's perfect w/ 25/29.97fps MKV, it would take him a few mins to fix the glitch.

too bad he has no time and no plan on fixing these bugs(we had a few emails that led to NOTHING)...this package is a lost cause, waiting for mVR to mature and moving on is the best option(MPC's MKV splitter is also becoming more and more usable, and there's KMP's MKV splitter too)

so much lost potential here, so much fantastic work done.....and yet it's unusable :(

leeperry, just a question as I know you used Haali alot in the past. How do you get around the fact that Haali and madVR will have problems playing copy protected material.... even stuff like DVD's. I would consider using madVR for its excellent colorspace conversions etc, and then reclock for vsyncing (although I prefer beliyaal's evr-cp), but i can't due to macrovision errors with madVR and Haali.

[leeperry]

AnyDVD fixes the problem I think? maybe DVD43 too?

[mark0077]

AnyDVD fixes the problem I think? maybe DVD43 too?

Excellent. I just wish madshi had a more urgent interest in audio / video sync stuff.... thanks.

[Mark_A_W]

AnyDVD fixes the problem I think? maybe DVD43 too?

Not on Vista. I cannot play a DVD with Haali on Vista, using the Haali Renderer.

Not a problem, coz DVD is dead :cool:

[leeperry]

Excellent. I just wish madshi had a more urgent interest in audio / video sync stuff.... thanks.
mVR is hell smooth here in 48Hz(as much as HR :eek:), did you fiddle w/ your video timings and install Reclock?

[leeperry]

Not on Vista. I cannot play a DVD with Haali on Vista, using the Haali Renderer.

Not a problem, coz DVD is dead :cool:
I usually played the first VOB of the movie and everything was cool(w/ DVD43 in the back), it even allows Reclock to detect the frame rate(it doesn't work w/ .ifo's as you know ;))

but KMP has a "seamless playback" feature that MPC doesn't, so clicking on the 1st VOB opens all the VOB's at once and seamlessly :)

[mark0077]

mVR is hell smooth here in 48Hz(as much as HR :eek:), did you fiddle w/ your video timings and install Reclock?

My TV has some problems at 24hz that Samsung don't seem to want to fix with firmware updates so I am happy with 60hz. If madVR doesn't do anything to keep audio / video in sync I can't see it ever being useful for me in this regard.

[leeperry]

not even 50Hz? you'd be better off timestretching to 25fps than getting constant judder IMO....plus you can PALSpeedDown and timestretch on top of it, so the audio pitch is genuine.

[madshi]

I just wish madshi had a more urgent interest in audio / video sync stuff.... thanks.
I have to build the foundation first before I can put a house on top of it. It doesn't make sense to work on audio/video sync if basic playback doesn't even work perfectly yet. One step at a time.

madVR is just about a week old (!!!). Learn some patience, man!

[mark0077]

Oh I have plenty of patience, relax now!

PS: Everyone appreciates the work on madVR, just excited to see it progress :D:D. Will no doubt be the renderer of choice in the near future. Thanks.

[Jong]

Not on Vista. I cannot play a DVD with Haali on Vista, using the Haali Renderer.

Not a problem, coz DVD is dead :cool:There cannot be a DRM issue if AnyDVD is running. If there is a problem it is with displaying and navigating menus and switching video streams. This can be fixed in the renderer. Sounds like Haali is not going to fix his, but Madshi sounds like he will for sure.

[Jong]

Oh I have plenty of patience, relax now!

PS: Everyone appreciates the work on madVR, just excited to see it progress :D:D. Will no doubt be the renderer of choice in the near future. Thanks.It is right to focus on video quality and reliability first before moving on to fix smoothness/vsync issues.

OT in the Haali thread, I know, but as we are discussing it. I would personally say things will go a lot quicker if MadVR is made so Reclock is able to reliably do its job on vsync rather than reinventing the wheel. We all know how difficult it is to get this right.

That would mean the benefits of VMR9/EVR exclusive mode, no tearing but allowing Reclock to keep frame presentation away from vsync/flip time (by triple buffering?), but with tighter presentation and the quality benefits of MadVR.

[leeperry]

allowing Reclock to keep frame presentation away from vsync/flip time(by triple buffering?)
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i157809_d3d.png

http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/lucykc.gif

[Jong]

http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i157809_d3d.png

http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/lucykc.gifYeah,

a) How do you get this info to display. It used to for me and I disabled it. Now I have no idea how to get it back! :o

b) what does it mean! :o

I think D3D exclusive mode uses triple buffering - it never tears - I'm pretty sure it is truly "flipping" (no blit) the front and back buffers - yet Reclock can still control "vsync". I think it thinks it is controlling "vsync" but in this case it actually controls the time the third buffer is flipped into the back buffer. But I've yet to hear from anyone who really knows the answer, or can be bothered to share it!

[leeperry]

well, open D3DOverrider.exe, force it for MPC and enabled forced triple buffering/VSYNC

then open RivaTuner, go to the monitoring options, add the "D3D events" monitor and there you go.

I can force triple buffering in either the nvidia drivers for MPC/KMP and in D3DOverrider, but HR doesn't care...and it crashes MPC HC+EVR on XP, where it's known to work amazingly well on Vista to make it "stick" to the VSYNC(Reclock never misses the VSYNC fliptime).

for mVR, as you can see it's a no go :o

now for the explanation of what makes it not workee : http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/microsoft.xna.framework.graphics.swapeffect.aspx

[Jong]

well, open D3DOverrider.exe, force it for MPC and enabled forced triple buffering/VSYNC

then open RivaTuner, go to the monitoring options, add the "D3D events" monitor and there you go.

I can force triple buffering in either the nvidia drivers for MPC/KMP and in D3DOverrider, but HR doesn't care...and it crashes MPC HC+EVR on XP, where it's known to work amazingly well on Vista to make it "stick" to the VSYNC(Reclock never misses the VSYNC fliptime).

for mVR, as you can see it's a no go :o

now for the explanation of what makes it not workee : http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/microsoft.xna.framework.graphics.swapeffect.aspxAh yeah thanks. I had forgotten the events were enabled/disabled in Rivatuner :o. Anyway, all is very OT. Will continue elsewhere.

[Mark_A_W]

it even allows Reclock to detect the frame rate(it doesn't work w/ .ifo's as you know ;))

I've never noticed that.

But I really don't watch DVDs anymore. On the rare occasion that I do I tend to convert it to a single MPG anyway.

DVD's get watched on the Tele using the XBMC, not on the projector using the PC.

HD is here and I'm not going back, not unless it's a really cool film (I did just rent Nightbreed on DVD...cool).

Mark

[pokazene_maslo]

Hello. I'm also having that problem with those "ghost lines" when using bicubic resizer and zooming video. I tried MPCHC 1.2.1043.0 x64, 1.2.908 x64, 1.2.908 x86 all with same results. That trick with ATT limiting PS to 1.4 is working.
OS: vista x64 sp1
GPU: ATI HD 3870, cat 9.3

[Mark_A_W]

There cannot be a DRM issue if AnyDVD is running. If there is a problem it is with displaying and navigating menus and switching video streams. This can be fixed in the renderer. Sounds like Haali is not going to fix his, but Madshi sounds like he will for sure.


I get a Macrovision error, even with Anydvd running. Go Figure.

[Jong]

It is probably not a real DRM problem, but is being interpreted as such. Did you see this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1272072#post1272072)?

[LigH]

Excuse me ... is this an example of the "ATI ghost-lines"? A user of the german doom9/Gleitz board reported it for a combination of kmplayer and Haali renderer, on an ATI HD2600 Pro.

http://mitglied.lycos.de/ghumpf/NIM.png

[Astrophizz]

Those look like them, though slightly different from other examples I've seen. It probably varies though.

[LigH]

I got reports that limiting the Pixel Shader version helped. Praise the ATT developer for allowing to save a link that calls the player with the tweak and resets it after quitting it.

[leeperry]

sucks that Haali totally gave up on HR, it barely works when it could be the best renderer ever w/ some minor polishing :(

[Anima123]

I got reports that limiting the Pixel Shader version helped. Praise the ATT developer for allowing to save a link that calls the player with the tweak and resets it after quitting it.

I've searched a little but failed to find how to limit the Pixel Shader version. Could you please give us a link of how-to?

[leeperry]

I've searched a little but failed to find how to limit the Pixel Shader version. Could you please give us a link of how-to?
read the last page or so, it's also possible on nvidia but requires a reboot.

[leeperry]

BTW, I dunno if you guys noticed but HR w/ Reclock in 96.000Hz is simply perfect!

you can seek as much as you want, it NEVER misses the VSYNC :eek:

and the jitter is very stable! double :eek:

if only it worked this well in 48.000Hz :(

now I want a projector that accepts 96Hz....I will try to contact Haali again, maybe he'll have some time to fix HR a bit :)

[Mark_A_W]

Not for me. MadVR at 96hz spanks it.

I've been running 96hz for years and Haali has only been "ok".

[leeperry]

well ok, but KMP doesn't support mVR...and every renderer in MPC(EVR/mVR/VMR9) likes to randomly drop frames after 1H of continuous playback on XP(not just for me, apparently it's a VSYNC lock problem that only Aero or exclusive D3D can fix altogether).

what is amazing is that HR *never* misses the VSYNC in 96Hz, I can seek zillion times and the jitter is always in the 1-3ms region...and it hardly drifts :eek:

in 48Hz, it takes a friggin' miracle to catch the VSYNC properly :(

yeah, as soon as KMP will support mVR(it's in the works I heard) and W7 will be RTM, I might take the big jump...still HR is smooth as hell in 48Hz if you're lucky enough to catch the VSYNC properly, and it doesn't hiccup after 1H on XP :)

I guess Haali will never improve HR, so it's as good as it's gonna get for me atm...and whatever the GUI or the seamless playback will never put me off KMP :D

[Kazuya]

96Hz looks attractive but I haven't any display to test it ! :(
I still use HR at 50Hz with KMP... VSync is good most of time, but needs a rapid control at beginning of the movie.

[chuuey]

i have some tearing happening on my 9400m, using coreavc and cuda acceleration, i guess the memory on the card is lacking, maybe i should upgrade the ram then it will assign more to it, anyone has a similar setup? Maybe i should change something in the renderer settings? other then that it's really great :>

has anyone managed to get this working at all without tearing from time to time on a card with 128vram? I guess i should upgrade the memory to get 256, i hope that solves my problems with all the other renderers than overlays and vmr

[chuuey]

Ok, sorry for the bump on this but i wanted to share my find today, first of all i noticed that every time i played video on my kuro with 24hz output, i was getting a lot of tearing, at first i blamed it on Cuda and coreavc, well, ffdshow did the same thing, so i decided to take this deeper. First thing: my 9400m does not display proper 24hz signal, the refresh rate should be 23.976 and actually it displays in 23.970, so i created a new custom resolution in the control panel, and forced the refresh rate to 23.976, and what do you know? No more tearing, Haali Renderer and CoreAVC+ CUDA, works very nice, i bumped the buffer to 64mb and frames to 4 in the settings, works very well, try it and maybe for people that had this issues this will be a nice solution, btw drivers version 186.81 WQHL and 256mb of vram, cheers :)

[BetaBoy]

well ok, but KMP doesn't support mVR...and every renderer in MPC(EVR/mVR/VMR9) likes to randomly drop frames after 1H of continuous playback on XP(not just for me, apparently it's a VSYNC lock problem that only Aero or exclusive D3D can fix altogether).

what is amazing is that HR *never* misses the VSYNC in 96Hz, I can seek zillion times and the jitter is always in the 1-3ms region...and it hardly drifts :eek:

in 48Hz, it takes a friggin' miracle to catch the VSYNC properly :(

yeah, as soon as KMP will support mVR(it's in the works I heard) and W7 will be RTM, I might take the big jump...still HR is smooth as hell in 48Hz if you're lucky enough to catch the VSYNC properly, and it doesn't hiccup after 1H on XP :)

I guess Haali will never improve HR, so it's as good as it's gonna get for me atm...and whatever the GUI or the seamless playback will never put me off KMP :D

Haali has addressed all of these issues in the upcoming 2.0 version of the Haali Media Splitter.

[Mark_A_W]

Haali has addressed all of these issues in the upcoming 2.0 version of the Haali Media Splitter.


Ok...


SPILL IT!!

Exactly how "upcoming" is upcoming???

[Thunderbolt8]

just like "done" in "it's done when it's done"

[leeperry]

Haali has addressed all of these issues in the upcoming 2.0 version of the Haali Media Splitter.
ok, thanks for the headsup BetaBoy! :eek:

well, if HR could never miss the VSYNC on XP SP3(Beliyaal has shown that it was entirely possible w/ his EVR CP), and not having that god**** annoying ascending/descending jitter problem w/ Reclock on 23.976fps MKV(problem doesn't occur w/ 25 or 29.97)...this would be really awesome! apparently there's too much jitter in HMS's output and it slowly desyncs from HR :confused:

but honestly, I think madVR is sharper and smoother than HR(in perfectly matched refresh rates of course like 25fps@50.000/23.976@48.000Hz etc), and it's now supported by KMP :o

I've explained the problem many many times to Haali, each time he told me he was swamped w/ work and didn't care for Reclock support anyway...

[THX-UltraII]

Ok, I have some issues with the bt.601 and .709 thing that I don t understand and I think that this is the topic where to get answers. (see also my topic http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=150086).

I found out that when I play HD content (.mkv 1080p material) I get different results of the video that is shown when I use different renderers/programs/combinations. I want to know which one is giving me the correct video. In the tests I ve done there are 2 different screenshots.

SCREENSHOT 1:
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1196/btmt1.png

SCREENSHOT 2:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7241/ampc1.png

Screenshot 1 seems a little greenish and screenshot 2 more blue. I already found out that it all has something to do with the .601 and .709 settings but I don t know which screenshot is 'right'.

Here are the results (all with the same 1080p .mkv file):
- Total Media Theater 3: SCREENSHOT1
- MPC-HC EVR with BT.601 -> BT.709 shader: SCREENSHOT1
- MPC-HC VMR9 with BT.601 -> BT.709 shader: SCREENSHOT1
- MPC-HC EVR without shader: SCREENSHOT2
- MPC-HC VMR9 without shader: SCREENSHOT2
- MPC-HC with Haali Renderer and YUV Colorspace on the Default BT.601: SCREENSHOT1
- MPC-HC with Haali Renderer and YUV Colorspace on BT.709: SCREENSHOT2

[kutjong]

All HD (720p and larger) material should be in BT.709 colorspace, but there's really no way to be sure. Most renderers usually switch to BT.709 when the input resolution is 720p (or 1280 width) or greater.

Anyway, I usually don't see any difference if the wrong colorspace is used so I don't care much anymore, I just leave colorspace to Auto in Haali renderer.
As for your screenshots, I think nr. 2 looks more natural.

[THX-UltraII]

thxz for your reply but I m still waiting for the correct answer: which screenshot is the correct one....... In other words: which renderer/program/combination is correct to use.

btw.: if screenshot 1 is the correct one, Arcsofts Total Media Theater (commercial) has a big problem and sends out the wrong video

[leeperry]

the 601/709 coeffs in HR are severely screwed up..use ffdshow in RGB32HQ as reference.

ati cards will only do 709 if y>719, so 1280*5xx movies will be decoded in 601

[THX-UltraII]

the 601/709 coeffs in HR are severely screwed up..use ffdshow in RGB32HQ as reference.

ati cards will only do 709 if y>719, so 1280*5xx movies will be decoded in 601

So...............WHICH screenshot/setting/combination I posted is correct??

Like, I said before, IS eg. tmt3 giving the correct picture??

[leeperry]

I don't know, use this test pattern in RGB32HQ REC.709 ffdshow, then compare it: http://www.sendspace.com/file/spmmas

you might be shocked by how wrong HR is...and its 601 coeffs are just as wrong..

[THX-UltraII]

I don't know, use this test pattern in RGB32HQ REC.709 ffdshow, then compare it: http://www.sendspace.com/file/spmmas

you might be shocked by how wrong HR is...and its 601 coeffs are just as wrong..

So your saying that FFdshow does a good job in this 709/601 thing? (still dont know exactly what it is). Is it possible to use ffdshow to ONLY do this REC.709 you talk about?

[leeperry]

output RGB32HQ from ffdshow, done :)

but it takes more CPU than HR in YUY2 of course.

Luma (video) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luma_(video)#Rec._601_luma_versus_Rec._709_luma_coefficients)

[THX-UltraII]

output RGB32HQ from ffdshow, done :)

but it takes more CPU than HR in YUY2 of course.

Luma (video) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luma_(video)#Rec._601_luma_versus_Rec._709_luma_coefficients)

and what about the input section of ffdshow? I assume that I have to do something over there in order to 'activate' ffdshow when running a file.

[leeperry]

"raw video" : "all supported" would help I guess

[THX-UltraII]

I don't know, use this test pattern in RGB32HQ REC.709 ffdshow, then compare it: http://www.sendspace.com/file/spmmas

you might be shocked by how wrong HR is...and its 601 coeffs are just as wrong..

When playing this file, what is correct? Seeing al the squares displayed?

I still don t understand it entirely: I have my ATI CCC setting on Full RGB output. If I use this, you would say that I dont need the ffdshow HQ RGB32 output?

[leeperry]

use ffdshow as a color reference, then compare against your other players...they should output the SAME EXACT colors.

might need to remux to .mp4 or .ts as I'm not sure PDVD or TMT open MKV..I think you can just rename to .avi and PDVD would open it

[THX-UltraII]

When I play a BD folder (CERTIFICATE/BDMV) with MPC-HC I CAN select subtitles (with Haali Media Splitter filter) but they do not show up. With TMT3 it works fine so the subs ARE there.

What could be wrong?

I use latest MPC-HC build with EVR custom, latest directX, FFdshow video decoder RGB32HQ output, ATI 4350 with 9.10 driver

[THX-UltraII]

any words on a release date of Haali Media Splitter 2.0?

[leeperry]

it's being betatested as we speak ;)

[tmbt]

Hi guys,
talking about math. Haali render is better in terms of quality than custom evr ?
From what i can understand reading this forum i can obtain better quality using MadVr. But i got some problems using that render so i would to know if i should use custom evr or haali render.
Other question : what's new the haali 2.0 ?
Thx

[chuuey]

well from what i saw on the forums, a bug with 24hz output and CoreAVC is no longer present, can't wait :)

[Klaus_1250]

it's being betatested as we speak ;)
Do you have a download link? Latest beta I could find is quite old.

[Keiyakusha]

There is no any new public betas. Final version of haali's tools should be released around this week...

[clsid]

It's a private beta test.

I can confirm that TrueHD is working with yesterdays beta.

[STaRGaZeR]

:cool:

[THX-UltraII]

any thoughts if Haali Splitter will be released early this week?

[BetaBoy]

It will be released with or slightly before CoreAVC 2.0.

[THX-UltraII]

thxz!

[Faile]

It will be released with or slightly before CoreAVC 2.0 this week.

Week's quickly coming to an end :p
But seriously, is it delayed ? Been waiting for a new version of Haali for 2 years now so I am a bit anxious :)

[73ChargerFan]

//|\\
\\|//

[foxyshadis]

All posts contributing nothing but harping on release dates or missed promises from this point on will be struck with rule 12 and/or rule 16. Core is eternally over-optimistic, but this thread is getting far too spammed up with curious and angry people, like the CoreAVC thread. Software is done when it's done.

I thought I'd already laid this out but I can't find the post, so no strikes yet.

[Faile]

All posts contributing nothing but harping on release dates or missed promises from this point on will be struck with rule 12 and/or rule 16. Core is eternally over-optimistic, but this thread is getting far too spammed up with curious and angry people, like the CoreAVC thread. Software is done when it's done.

I thought I'd already laid this out but I can't find the post, so no strikes yet.

Who has just edited his post and removed "this week" from it. Sorry for asking about something written by someone.
I am not familiar with Core and don't know that he is over optimistic, he seemed connected to Haali and the development of his splitter and he posted a timeframe of release.
If one is not allowed to ask about it when said timeframe is coming to an end then honestly...stuff your forum where the sun don't shine.

Look up the definition of "forum" sometime, you might learn stuff.

And yeah, go ahead and ban me to show me you are a big strong and mighty guy on the net, heh

[foxyshadis]

I'm sorry, you might wish to re-examine who and what this forum is for, get an idea of the decorum here, and reread the rules that you agreed to upon signing up. I wasn't passively "calling you out", just trying to keep the thread on track, but that was an incredibly childish response to a general request. There are better places to privately contact the people concerned. You're just pixels on a screen to me for now, I get no joy from doing a simple job. Struck (not banned) for rule 16.

[CruNcher]

@BetaBoy

Does one of the Fixes also include more compatible .mov parsing ?
i have the problem that this IMA ADPCM Audio stream is not reaching ffdshows audio decoder with Haalis Splitter but Gabest (MPC-HCs internal) Mplayer and VLC work fine :)

Audio
ID : 1
Format : ADPCM
Format settings, Firm : IMA
Codec ID : ima4
Duration : 2mn 6s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 352.8 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Stream size : 5.33 MiB (1%)
Language : English

[leeperry]

you can find the official HMS thread here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=80762&page=24

[CruNcher]

Oops
thx leeperry, it was also reported already in 2005 :D
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=727918#post727918

[Amefurashi]

This is probably going to be an old question, but I was not able to find the answer myself...

Is it a known issue that using Haali renderer with ffdshow's x264 decoding in MPC HC (or TheKMPlayer) results in a forced downsampling of a 1080p clip? 720p plays just fine and the player shows the movie window's correct size (e.g. 1280x720), but 1080p are shown in a small window (about 960x400) and, let's say, I can't capture a snapshot in its native resolution.

What to do, my friends? :confused:

[73ChargerFan]

Amefurashi, it is a known issue, but not for the reason you think.
I've already said that a couple of times, but here it goes again: video size is reduced so the player window fits the screen. This is how I want it and I'm not going to change it. If you want parts of your video to go outside the screen and become invisible, then resize your player manually or use another renderer.

[leeperry]

oh yes, as long as you run in windowed mode, HR will shrink it indeed.

[Amefurashi]

Got it, thanks. Guess I'll hop on VRM9 or EVR when dealing with 1080p content (my desktop resolution is 1680x1050, not good enough).

:thanks:

[THX-UltraII]

any news if Haali will be released any time soon?

[fastplayer]

any news if Haali will be released any time soon?
Apparently, you conveniently "missed" this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1346046#post1346046) by foxyshadis, so I will quote it again here to spare you scrolling 10 posts up:
All posts contributing nothing but harping on release dates or missed promises from this point on will be struck with rule 12 and/or rule 16.

[THX-UltraII]

sorry, didn t see that.

[leeperry]

Haali has addressed all of these issues in the upcoming 2.0 version of the Haali Media Splitter.
this would indeed appear to be the case :eek:

I will run more tests with 23.976fps MKV files @48.000Hz w/ Reclock...but this used to drop frames randomly after 1H if you didn't catch the VSYNC properly(which took a lot of luck), but from what I've seen so far jitter on 23.976fps MKV files seems FAR more stable than ever before...prepare for unforeseen consequences http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/ayuluna.gif

[BetaBoy]

I am sure there are many issues yet to be fixed... but this is moving in the right direction... and I want to thank Haali for his continued contributions.

[leeperry]

now, if he could fix the slight errors in the BT601/709 conversion coeffs(I can provide the exact coeffs and test patterns), and implement this PS script to get proper colors: Color Correction with a HTPC - AVS Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=912720)

this would be beyond words! http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/paradise974.gif

[Keiyakusha]

By the way about PS3 scaler. I know It was disabled on some point of developing but is there any chances to see it again? Is it possible to get some speed improvements with it? If it doesn't works fine on all hardware, maybe its better to add some checkbox so it can be enabled/disabled by user?

[leeperry]

Don't set your hopes too high, the HR DLL hasn't been updated since January 2009 and HR is a dead project as far as I can see...the new HMS seems to have a more stable jitter on 23.976 MKV files w/ DTS, but AC3 is even worse than before.

Quite honestly, when you see all that mVR offers(it's dead smooth for me in 48Hz, far smoother and sharper than HR by a long shot, Kazuya can confirm)...there's really no more reason to use HR: its REC601/709 YUY2 coeffs are wrong, it works very poorly w/ Reclock, its scaler gives ghost lines on ATi cards, no CMS whatsoever, it cannot keep up w/ 60fps streams, etc etc...BetaBoy pays Haali to improve HMS, allowing CoreAVC to work on W7 and in BD structures..this is already fantastic! but find a backup plan if you were hoping for HR bug fixes :o

[Egh]

Don't set your hopes too high, the HR DLL hasn't been updated since January 2009 and HR is a dead project as far as I can see...

Quite honestly, when you see all that mVR offers(it's dead smooth for me in 48Hz, far smoother and sharper than HR by a long shot, Kazuya can confirm)...there's really no more reason to use HR: its REC601/709 YUY2 coeffs are wrong, it works very poorly w/ Reclock, its scaler gives ghost lines on ATi cards, no CMS whatsoever, it cannot keep up w/ 60fps streams, etc etc...

Superlatives there seems a bit subjective (i.e. it is better but not "far better")

OK, I'm on Nvidia here. Practically no problems with HR whatsoever. Besides, even though mVR is better, it is still:


closed source
very slow development
no subs



Well I did have hopes for mVR, but lol, it is still technically in beta stage and having just one build released per half a year means development is nearly stalled.

[Mark_A_W]

While I don't disagree with the other comments Egh..

Subs work in madVR with DirectVobSub (aka VSfilter).

[Keiyakusha]

Quite honestly, when you see all that mVR offers(it's dead smooth for me in 48Hz, far smoother and sharper than HR by a long shot, Kazuya can confirm)...there's really no more reason to use HR: its REC601/709 YUY2 coeffs are wrong, it works very poorly w/ Reclock, its scaler gives ghost lines on ATi cards, no CMS whatsoever, it cannot keep up w/ 60fps streams

Well, as for me... HR is exactly what I need.
mVR is too slow for me, I can't watch anything smoothly with it. And doesn't supports subtitles rendering.
Coeffs... I can live with that, I don't like/use reclock, I don't like/use ATI but anyway scaling is done by FFDshow, less than 1% of my streams is at 60 fps. So I don't want to believe that HR doesn't have any future...

[leeperry]

sure, if you don't care for proper colors or uber-smoothness, HR can fit the bill(there's other bugs in HR I forgot about I think..but it doesn't matter) :)

You can also get ghost lines on nvidia BTW(I have a GF9600), there's a bug in a PS script sum(1.0 when 0.98 should be expected).

I still rest my case that in 48Hz mVR is *FAR* smoother(Kazuya and other smoothness-OCD'ed ppl can concur) and much sharper...it's really amazing, all those movies I've watched w/ HR when they could have looked so much smoother/sharper in mVR :(

ah well, same for audio as I'm currently upgrading my set up(Burson Audio HA-160 headphones amplifier, etc)....all those records I have to listen all over again to hear what I've been missing, nasty upgraditis http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/zabrak.gif

both HR/mVR are closed source, and I hardly ever watch subbed movies...when I do, ffdshow does the trick nicely(subs are blurry but well, it does work)

and Kazuya is very fond of the upscaling algorithms built into mVR, maybe he'll chime in to tell us more about it.

[Keiyakusha]

The main thing, that you talking not about smoothness, but "super" smoothness. If the GPU is able to run mVR + stuff like Aero and there is still left some room - then mVR is the good choice. In other cases HR is the way to go. To be clear, I don't want to see HR vs mVR fight, I want to see HR as a good renderer with lower system requirements.

[Kazuya]

Well I don't try HR with Aero, but madVR is incredible !
My Z4 is changed into a VW60 killer projector !!! :p
HR looks so dusty in comparison...

And madVR isn't achieved ! Can't wait for the next release ! :D

[leeperry]

The main thing, that you talking not about smoothness, but "super" smoothness. If the GPU is able to run mVR + stuff like Aero and there is still left some room - then mVR is the good choice. In other cases HR is the way to go. To be clear, I don't want to see HR vs mVR fight, I want to see HR as a good renderer with lower system requirements.
Yes, mVR is FAR smoother than HR(w/ Reclock), and includes a full color management system...and I can't seem to be able to explain why, but the PQ is also much sharper, HR looks blurry(or "dusty" as Kazuya said) in comparison.

Anyway, I'm really not trolling here...I was simply telling you that there -most likely- won't be any change made to HR, as you were asking about the PS3 scaler being reenabled.

I don't use Aero, I'm XP resilient...I'm not willing to waste CPU/GPU cycles for a retarded GUI and zillions of useless background processes hogging my system.

Maybe you could try this freeware app? it's meant to temporarily close all the useless background stuff(and God knows there's a HELL lot of it on W7/Vista): Game Booster (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cowcotland.com%2Fnews%2F17431%2Frapide-test-du-logiciel-game-booster.html&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

[Egh]

Well, as for me... HR is exactly what I need.
mVR is too slow for me, I can't watch anything smoothly with it. And doesn't supports subtitles rendering.
Coeffs... I can live with that, I don't like/use reclock, I don't like/use ATI but anyway scaling is done by FFDshow, less than 1% of my streams is at 60 fps.

We have so much in common! :rolleyes: well practically all same for me, though I don't have any troubles with GPU power. However, to be honest, it is better to keep them on minimum power unless gaming, and that what I use even for 1080p videos.



While I don't disagree with the other comments Egh..

Subs work in madVR with DirectVobSub (aka VSfilter).

There's an ages old rule called Occam's razor. MPCHC has almost same code but renders it in a better quality, iirc. So why to use anything else if only video player I use is mpchc?

Well I don't try HR with Aero, but madVR is incredible !
My Z4 is changed into a VW60 killer projector !!! :p
HR looks so dusty in comparison...
And madVR isn't achieved ! Can't wait for the next release ! :D
Well officially HR is not archieved either. Unless I missed that somehow... Besides, not all viewers use projectors where difference is visible. Not even mentioning that most videos hardly justify even HD resolution (i.e. I mean alot of TV broadcast uses upscaled videos).

[leeperry]

mVR is not exactly a GPU hog on a rebadged 8800GS/384MB: http://thumbnails18.imagebam.com/5880/e2399458790831.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e2399458790831)

[Mark_A_W]

There's an ages old rule called Occam's razor. MPCHC has almost same code but renders it in a better quality, iirc. So why to use anything else if only video player I use is mpchc?

Well officially HR is not archieved either. Unless I missed that somehow... Besides, not all viewers use projectors where difference is visible. Not even mentioning that most videos hardly justify even HD resolution (i.e. I mean alot of TV broadcast uses upscaled videos).

Well, I'll take a better, smoother image over subtitle quality anyday.
There aren't that many movies with forced subtitles, and I only occasionally watch non-english films.

And I only watch Bluray, HD-DVD, or HDTV on my projector. TV is for the TV! I'm such a HD snob. Luckily, almost all my favourite films are available on HD now.

[leeperry]

well, my GPU-Z screenshot was on XP SP3...from what I've seen Aero is hogging GPU's, so maybe that's what they meant.

even on my 19" CRT, I can see that mVR is smoother(in 96.000Hz+Reclock).

[flanger216]

There's an ages old rule called Occam's razor. MPCHC has almost same code but renders it in a better quality, iirc. So why to use anything else if only video player I use is mpchc?

Err... Occam's razor is a logical dictate stating that the simplest solution to any given problem is most likely the correct one, in that sensitivity to pluralities and irrelevant nuance is a human failing and not a useful property to logical deduction. It argues for simplicity, but contrary to popular belief, it does not argue for reduction. In other words, it has nothing to do with what you're talking about.

You're faced with the following problem: you can get better sub rendering from MPC-HC's renderers, you can get better video quality from madVR, but you can't get both. Logical simplicity is irrelevant when faced with matters of preference, so it all depends on what you want. In fact, if you're goal is to get the best video quality possible, Occam's razor would actually advise in favor of madVR, because worrying about superfluous sub renderers is really just a distracting equivocation.

[Egh]

Err... Occam's razor is a logical dictate stating that the simplest solution to any given problem is most likely the correct one, in that sensitivity to pluralities and irrelevant nuance is a human failing and not a useful property to logical deduction. It argues for simplicity, but contrary to popular belief, it does not argue for reduction. In other words, it has nothing to do with what you're talking about.

You're faced with the following problem: you can get better sub rendering from MPC-HC's renderers, you can get better video quality from madVR, but you can't get both. Logical simplicity is irrelevant when faced with matters of preference, so it all depends on what you want. In fact, if you're goal is to get the best video quality possible, Occam's razor would actually advise in favor of madVR, because worrying about superfluous sub renderers is really just a distracting equivocation.

I disagree :p Besides, Occam's razor in layman's terms would be to not multiply entities beyond necessity. I already have MPCHC with subrenderer. If mVR doesn't support it, then it is on hold until it does.

As for smoothness -- HR smoothness is more than I need if I use my CRT @ 85Hz. I don't use projectors though and I don't have a need to do so. For non-movie sources, difference in quality doesn't even justify any change a priori.

And to sum up, real problem is that both renderers are bad, as they are underdeveloped closed source made by a one-programmer team.

How hard can it be to develop a video renderer? :P

[Mark_A_W]

Nothing will be smooth at 85hz.

[clsid]

Increasing the rendering resolution in DirectVobSub can help to increase sub quality.

[leeperry]

How hard can it be to develop a video renderer? :P
prolly always the same m$ bs? lot of undocumented stuff that you need to find out by yourself, and a poor original design that needs a lot of time/skills and imagination to fix?

Haali worked on VMR9, so he's prolly gained some knowledge "from the inside", but madshi went from scratch..see how far he went in just a couple of beta versions http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/images/smilies/headshot.gif

and yes, 85Hz is up to no good...try 89.910/96.000Hz

[Egh]

prolly always the same m$ bs? lot of undocumented stuff that you need to find out by yourself, and a poor original design that needs a lot of time/skills and imagination to fix?

Haali worked on VMR9, so he's prolly gained some knowledge "from the inside", but madshi went from scratch..see how far he went in just a couple of beta versions

Yop, and then all the development even in spite of most obvious interface bugs was suspended for 3-4 months. Things are simple -- no open source, no stability and predictability. What if a new update for let's say W7 is out, and both HR and mVR dont' work then? Waiting for months before such an issue is resolved ... That is why I'm inclined to say that *both* are bad :D

upd: btw Haali's website is apparently down today. That is exactly what I mean, actually...

[madshi]

And to sum up, real problem is that both renderers are bad, as they are underdeveloped closed source made by a one-programmer team.
You're free to use whatever renderer you want, but judging software based on whether it's closed or open source is just plain stupid. :rolleyes:

[BetaBoy]

You're free to use whatever renderer you want, but judging software based on whether it's closed or open source is just plain stupid. :rolleyes:

Agreed.

[leeperry]

no open source, no stability and predictability. What if a new update for let's say W7 is out, and both HR and mVR dont' work then?
name some open source VR..KMP is able to use plain D3D surfaces as VR:

http://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/5974/eb03ab59733487.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/eb03ab59733487)

but KMP isn't open-source either.

[Keiyakusha]

Yes, mVR is FAR smoother than HR(w/ Reclock), and includes a full color management system...and I can't seem to be able to explain why, but the PQ is also much sharper, HR looks blurry(or "dusty" as Kazuya said) in comparison.

Anyway, I'm really not trolling here...I was simply telling you that there -most likely- won't be any change made to HR, as you were asking about the PS3 scaler being reenabled.

I don't use Aero, I'm XP resilient...I'm not willing to waste CPU/GPU cycles for a retarded GUI and zillions of useless background processes hogging my system.

Maybe you could try this freeware app? it's meant to temporarily close all the useless background stuff(and God knows there's a HELL lot of it on W7/Vista): Game Booster (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cowcotland.com%2Fnews%2F17431%2Frapide-test-du-logiciel-game-booster.html&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
Sorry for really late response, I missed your post for some reason...
Game Booster is a nice software, but unlikely it can free some GPU resources. The processes that it terminates seems not related to GPU.
Unfortunately I can't test anything now. I just discovered that for some reason when madvr starts and/or ends its work everything hangs for a few minutes so I even can't move my mouse. Maybe I need to update it or something. I think this started to happen after drivers update. I'll check this later.
And aero... I can disable it when the player starts, I think this is no big deal. However with its vsync I have smoother result when using renderers other than madvr. By the way not sure about cycles, but using GPU-Z i can see that aero can eat up to 128mb video memory with just few windows open (no video, games or something).

And to sum up, real problem is that both renderers are bad, as they are underdeveloped closed source made by a one-programmer team.

Well... one programmer is not necessarily bad thing. And closed source... I think its also can be good, but yes only when its feature rich and bug free, which isn't the case here.

[namaiki]

HR looks blurry(or "dusty" as Kazuya said) in comparison.
Atifacts from sharpening with Bicubic resizer?

Is that with default settings for the Bicubic resizer or have you tried tweaking it?

I just discovered that for some reason when madvr starts and/or ends its work everything hangs for a few minutes so I even can't move my mouse.

Same for me.. (Geforce 9600M GT, Forceware 186.88)

At the start, when it's 'frozen', press the start key on your keyboard a few times(switches focus from media player to start menu and vice versa), and that will unfreeze it for me. :p

At the end, I use taskkill, and the RAM still appears to be taken back from the program.

[leeperry]

Artifacts from sharpening with Bicubic resizer?
we both used it in NN mode(1:1, scaling disabled)...actually it's dead obvious that mVR is sharper & smoother(using Reclock in 48/50.000Hz), HR and HMS suffer from jitter...the delivery time is not spot-on, it goes around the clock and the VSYNC fliptime.

even HMS makes mVR lose track after 45/60 mins(even in MPC), the internal KMP MKV splitter can play 2H movies w/o a glitch...Haali doesn't care for Reclock support, and it shows..luckily KMP's MKV splitter works like a charm(and also supports FLAC/subs/etc...)

well, a wild guess would be that HR seems to be doing some slight sample and hold...anyway it's not as sharp and looks blurry, maybe the reason is somewhere else, you can do so many things w/ PS scripts...

madshi discussed it here: technical question: sample-and-hold effect? - AVS Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=802850)

basically DLP's don't seem to do any sample & hold...but tLCD's do, which gives an impression of smoother but it's actually blurrier(you can play around w/ the frame rate doublers in ffdshow to see what I mean)

I personally cannot stand tLCD pj's as all their cons are deal breakers for me(misconvergence/vertical banding/shading/etc), I've always been told about MDA(Motion Dithering Artifacts) on DLP...well, it's said to look like black "cell shading-like" outlines around fast moving objects, but I've never been able to see anything like that on my Mitsu HC910/1100/3100..but I think Mitsu is known to be one of the companies that handles DLP the best(Toshiba being pretty bad, their "HD2+ Mustang" chip pj's like the MT700 would suffer from terrible banding...the Mitsu HC1100 using the same chip is completely untouched). But I can also notice mVR's smoothness edge on my 19" CRT(and Kazuya too on his LCD monitor in 29.97fps@60Hz).

I also use LSF in ffdshow to sharpen up the motion blur, it looks so good :)

PS: it could also be due to the chroma being softer in mVR, which gives the impression of a sharper luma maybe?

[Mark_A_W]

Leeperry

Do you know if the KMP splitter is able to be used as an external filter?

I'd like to try it in Zoom Player.

[leeperry]

You'd need to extract it from the .exe...I tried several methods, but failed. And maybe it'd still be locked to KMP..maybe coz they hacked it from Gabest :p

[Mark_A_W]

I tried the MPC HC Gabest splitter but it didn't work well at all with mkvs.

[namaiki]

I tried the MPC HC Gabest splitter but it didn't work well at all with mkvs.

What specifically? I'm just curious because I've never really tried it..

[leeperry]

I tried the MPC HC Gabest splitter but it didn't work well at all with mkvs.
well, I was just kidding...but KMP is known to use stolen code from MPC, and they embedded the splitter within the exe so noone could look into it...maybe there's a good reason ;)

anyway, you're also a Reclock addict and tried both mVR/HR...what's your take on it? both are just as smooth to you in 96Hz on your three eyed monster?

[Mark_A_W]

What specifically? I'm just curious because I've never really tried it..

It won't connect at all.

I'm trying the MPC HC Gabest MPEG2 splitter/source and they just don't work at all with mkv files.


Maybe I'm using the wrong filters, but I also tried the MPEG4 splitter..no go either.

[Mercury_22]

It won't connect at all.

I'm trying the MPC HC Gabest MPEG2 splitter/source and they just don't work at all with mkv files.


Maybe I'm using the wrong filters, but I also tried the MPEG4 splitter..no go either.
And the name of the splitters you are trying to use didn't give you any clue about if you can or can't use them for mkv files ?
My suggestion is to try MatroskaSplitter for mkv files

[Mark_A_W]

And the name of the splitters you are trying to use didn't give you any clue about if you can or can't use them for mkv files ?
My suggestion is to try MatroskaSplitter for mkv files

Yes, but it's not always indicative.
For instance, you use the MPEG2 Splitter for .m2ts files.


But thank you, I will try that.

Edit: Yes, it works. The reason I didn't try it before was I didn't have it registered - I missed that one.

[Mercury_22]

Yes, but it's not always indicative.
For instance, you use the MPEG2 Splitter for .m2ts files.


But thank you, I will try that.

Edit: Yes, it works. The reason I didn't try it before was I didn't have it registered - I missed that one.

AFAIK the name of MPC-HC's standalone splitter it's MpegSplitter.ax not MPEG2 Splitter http://www.xvidvideo.ru/media-player-classic-home-cinema-x86-x64/media-player-classic-homecinema-x86-x64-svn-1410.html

[Mark_A_W]

Now you are just being picky.

[chuuey]

wasn't the 2.0 renderer supposed to be released with coreavc 2.0? What happened?

[Keiyakusha]

renderer? no. splitter - yes.
many peoples wanted it, but there was only hope. As you can see haali has no motivation even for fixing bugs in splitter. So the renderer seems to be completely forgotten.

[Blight]

A new version of Haali's is out as of the 19th:
http://haali.su/mkv/

I couldn't get TrueHD audio to play with it, not using FFDShow for decoding a BluRay TS file.

Here's the change list:
* New Features:
o Added a 64-bit version
o A shell extension was removed from the splitter. This will be available seprately at a later date.
o Added truehd and mlp support for Matroska files and transpor streams
* Fixed items:
o Fixed lpcm in transport streams support

[Keiyakusha]

Sure its out. But there is not a single change in the renderer since 29/03/2008

[chuuey]

Haali has addressed all of these issues in the upcoming 2.0 version of the Haali Media Splitter.

that's what i'm talking about, there i said about 24hz bugs ;)

[Egh]

Sure its out. But there is not a single change in the renderer since 29/03/2008

How do you know? :)

[LoRd_MuldeR]

How do you know? :)

No changes to the renderer are listed in the changelog on Haali's site. Also it was discussed in the CoreAVC thread.

[Keiyakusha]

Egh
Well, it will be good if there is changes, but its hard to believe since haali even didn't find the time to fix more important bugs in splitter...

[73ChargerFan]

Haali has a job. I wonder if he'd be willing to open source this, so others can work on it also.

[Egh]

Haali has a job. I wonder if he'd be willing to open source this, so others can work on it also.

Open-source Renderer is a Holy Grail apparently. So many years and still no solution? :))

I guess developers do not care for being famous... I'm quite sure there will be many early adopters of the open source renderer provided it is more or less stable :)

[madshi]

Open-source Renderer is a Holy Grail apparently. So many years and still no solution? :))
There is a Microsoft demo video renderer, which is open source. If you are simple enough to believe that being open source automatically makes a renderer mutate into "Holy Grail", then why don't you compile and use that one? Obviously it must be Holy Grail because it's open source!? :rolleyes:

I guess developers do not care for being famous...
Where is Gabest's fame for developing MPC? Where is Beliyaal's fame for developing the MPC HC EVR Custom implementation? Where is albain's fame for making HD audio bitstreaming work? Where is Casimir666's fame for implementing DXVA support? I don't think any normal end user knows any of the mentioned developers. Do *you* know who developed the libav TrueHD decoder? Maybe/probably these devs (who all did a great job) didn't aim for being famous, so no big problem. But believing that open sourceing your work makes you famous is rather "funny" IMHO.

Now compare that to Haali. His work is closed source, yet far more end users know his name compared to Gabest, Beliyaal, albain or Casimir666. So if you turn on your brain, you might come to the (right) conclusion that open sourceing your work is a good idea only if you do NOT aim to be famous.

I'm quite sure there will be many early adopters of the open source renderer provided it is more or less stable :)
By far most users don't really care at all about whether a software is open source or closed source. What difference does it make to them? They're not developers! They have no use for the source code. End users only care about two things: (1) Is it free or not? And (2) is it working well or not?

[avivahl]

Now compare that to Haali. His work is closed source, yet far more end users know his name compared to Gabest, Beliyaal, albain or Casimir666.Well, only because it's called "Haali Media Splitter". I can assure you that if Gabest would have called his player "Gabest Media Player" (or "GaBEST" hehe), he would have been more well known.

So if you turn on your brain, you might come to the (right) conclusion that open sourceing your work is a good idea only if you do NOT aim to be famous.Just as equally wrong logic. :P

[leeperry]

open source usually means lotsa ppl(both pro and newbies) working on the same broken piece of code, and at some point it'll be so messy that noone will be able to fix it anymore..as long as it works and its coder didn't abandon the project(like when ogo sold the Reclock source to Slysoft, who kept it in a drawer for several years), who gives a damn whether it's open source..I think you guys are troll feeding, let Egh think what he wants.

Casimir666 is very famous on french A/V forums, I dunno if he ever got laid thanks to his uber coding skills...but we can only hope :)

[madshi]

open source usually means lotsa ppl(both pro and newbies) working on the same broken piece of code, and at some point it'll be so messy that noone will be able to fix it anymore..
Probably some open source projects are that way, but there are certainly many good open source projects out there, too. IMHO we should stop doing politics. We should not judge software based on whether it's closed or open source. We should judge software based on its quality alone.

Anyway, this is my last comment on open vs. closed in this thread...

[foxyshadis]

Moved all of the posts about MPC-HC to the MPC-HC thread. Also all the talk about open source and fame/notoriety would be better discussed in its own thread.

[THX-UltraII]

Have a problem with Haali Media Splitter:

Haali seems to have the problem that there is only one audiostream possible when playing a .m2ts to choose in I ve noticed that this is always the audio commentary. Is there a way to fix this? Are you guys also you the MPC-HC internal MPEG/TS splitter instead of the Haali splitter?

[leeperry]

Have a problem with Haali Media Splitter
you can find the official HMS thread here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=80762&page=24

[Frank K Abbott]

I don't quite understand how "Luma Levels" exactly functions in Haali Renderer. My ffdshow is set for RGB32, TV input levels, Computer output levels and my CoreAVC is set to Auto Detect, Auto Detect. Haali Renderer is set to TV Levels. I'm using this on a computer screen. I cannot understand if the Luma Levels is for video input or video output in the renderer and how it functions if ffdshow is already converting levels from TV to Computer.

[Keiyakusha]

Frank K Abbott
Don't really understand how your filter chain looks like. You have CoreAVC and FFDshow both at the same time?

Anyway levels is only for YUV->RGB conversion. If Haali takes RGB as input, this option makes no difference. If it takes YUY2, then by setting TV levels you saying that your source have TV levels (which is DVD, BD, TV captures...), so Haali's output will be PC. And by setting PC levels you saying that your source is PC (which normally you shouldn't) and there will be no conversion.

[Frank K Abbott]

Frank K Abbott
Don't really understand how your filter chain looks like. You have CoreAVC and FFDshow both at the same time?

Anyway levels is only for YUV->RGB conversion. If Haali takes RGB as input, this option makes no difference. If it takes YUY2, then by setting TV levels you saying that your source have TV levels (which is DVD, BD, TV captures...), so Haali's output will be PC. And by setting PC levels you saying that your source is PC (which normally you shouldn't) and there will be no conversion.

CoreAVC runs for all H.264/AVC material and ffdshow runs for nearly everything else. So is it wise to set CoreAVC to output to RGB32 as well?

[Keiyakusha]

CoreAVC runs for all H.264/AVC material and ffdshow runs for nearly everything else. So is it wise to set CoreAVC to output to RGB32 as well?

Ahh i see.
About CoreAVC... thats up to you but i guess yes. Because otherwise your source will be converted to YUY2 before it gets to the renderer which is probably worse. However you should check if CoreAVC applies TV->PC conversion for RGB if both options set to Auto (i never tried). If no, you need to force that.

[Frank K Abbott]

ok so I set CoreAVC to RGB32 and I confirmed it is outputting that by the OSD in Haali Renderer. I also forced the input as TV and output as PC because to tell you the truth even I don't know what it does with Auto Detect. So basically with RGB32 going to Haali the Luma Level options are basically non-existant and Haali plays whatever it gets from CoreAVC or ffdshow? Also I have been wondering but why don't dvds and bds get stored as RGB32? And why is it not the default to output as RGB32 in ffdshow or CoreAVC? Are there other benefits with YUV or YUY2?

[Keiyakusha]

So basically with RGB32 going to Haali the Luma Level options are basically non-existant and Haali plays whatever it gets from CoreAVC or ffdshow?
Yep.

Also I have been wondering but why don't dvds and bds get stored as RGB32?
Because it takes waaaay more space and harder to compress.

And why is it not the default to output as RGB32 in ffdshow or CoreAVC? Are there other benefits with YUV or YUY2?
Well there are different scenarios, this is offtop here but having non-rgb input to the renderer is not bad. In some cases even better than RGB. Its just haali's downside (imho) that it wants YUY2 when all content out there most likely YV12.

[Frank K Abbott]

Ah, I see. btw I was just wondering if the renderer might get some future updates since it is a bit old though still one of the best. Have you heard anything about it?

[leeperry]

having non-rgb input to the renderer is not bad. In some cases even better than RGB. Its just haali's downside (imho) that it wants YUY2 when all content out there most likely YV12.
if you check the beginning of this thread, Haali made it clear that YV12>YUY2 conversion was very light and essentially lossless....the major issue w/ feeding YUY2 to HR is that its RGB conversion BT.601/709 coeffs are way off..so you get bogus colors duh. there's also of LOT of other open issues in HR(just like in HMS :o)

RGB32HQ in ffdshow is perfect, but it's a CPU hog.
I was just wondering if the renderer might get some future updates
it hasn't been updated for the past 2 years or so and last time I spoke to Haali he said that HR was "on hold", so don't count on it.

mVR came to overcome its drawbacks, but it hasn't been updated in +7 months either: madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) - Doom9's Forum (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228)

[Keiyakusha]

leeperry
Thats why I put "imho" there. Light or no, I don't like conversions like that when they can be avoided. Personally I'm using ffdshow as postprocessor so its always possible to have nice RGB even with CoreAVC. :rolleyes:

[leeperry]

YV12>YUY2 won't make any visible difference...but HR's bogus 601/709 coeffs very much will...ah well, HR is history anyway.

[Frank K Abbott]

I simply love ffdshow's post processing power. RGB32HQ conversion of course and most of the time I run a 2-3 line AviSynth script along with it too. Works well. And the result of converting to RGB32 in CoreAVC is just...Wow. Much better than HR doing the conversion. Colors look a bit better as well as a bit of the lighting.

[leeperry]

outputting RGB32 from CoreAVC and using Avisynth scripting in ffdshow on top will lead to many useless lossy conversions...not sure that's what you're saying, though ;)

[Frank K Abbott]

outputting RGB32 from CoreAVC and using Avisynth scripting in ffdshow on top will lead to many useless lossy conversions...not sure that's what you're saying, though ;)

CoreAVC and ffdshow are being used for two completely different scenarios. CoreAVC is for mpeg-4/avc/h.264 type material and ffdshow is for the rest. I only have one decoder working on one type of file at a time thanks to the brilliance of filter merits :D

[~Revolution~]

Is there a way to "hack" the 256MB limit since I want to fully utilize the 1 GB gddr3 mem I have on my gfx card.

[leeperry]

don't think so, and it would be a jitter party anyway..Casimir already made it clear that there isn't much point caching more than 4/5 frames

[~Revolution~]

Is there any hope of some bug fixes in Haali Renderer since it already is near perfect just a few more fixes maybe?

[LegendaryPOO]

Can someone explain how the scaler works in Haali? Or any renderer for the fact.
I am playing MPC-HC on my Core2 Duo with 8500gt on 1080p output. I thought I was having problem with aliasing, lots of edge problems with jaggies. WMP had no issue with any 1080p content, looked smooth as.
Checking the OSD with Haali, it shows my 1080p content scaled to 899x506. What is this meaning? My movies are being scaled back to less than half of the original image?
I cannot find any other information on this in Google, or maybe I dont know what im supposed to be looking for. Is thi scaling making my images look all awful? It makes it look bad in space scenes where the stars are just flickering. Is it Haali itself?

[namaiki]

What is the resolution of your screen? Are you playing in full-screen?

[LegendaryPOO]

Yes I am. When I go to windowed mode, it says the display is even less (which I assume is correct by seeing the window size). I do not know if there is a way in any other renderer to see if the image is being scaled differently.
I played the same file on my laptop, and while the laptop is lower res, it said was displaying correctly.
I just have that sinking feeling that I have not been watching movies the way they should be, half the res of normal.

[namaiki]

Could you please post a screenshot? (do not resize the image) Put it on imageshack or other.

[LegendaryPOO]

http://img510.imageshack.us/i/ghostpc.jpg/

It shows with the scaler 1920x1080 -> 899x375.

[namaiki]

What media player is that in?

If you're not using Media Player Classic Homecinema, you should be!

[LegendaryPOO]

Yep, 1.3.1774.0
Any ideas what is going on? Im guessing its not supposed to happen.

[namaiki]

No idea what's happening. Try a newer MPC-HC and while you're at it, try default settings.

By the way, if you've got a decent video card, I would recommend you use Overlay.

edit: are you using HDMI and resizing the thing to fit your TV?

[dansrfe]

If you recall, Haali himself mentioned that he disliked having the video resolution and the screen resolution being the same or nearly the same. Due to this if any video being attempted to be played had a resolution within a certain amount of the screens resolution. The video would temporarily be shown at half the resolution in order to not have such an overwhelming effect the minute the video was opened. If after that the user wants to view the full resolution or something larger than half the resolution he/she can resize it to their liking or make it full screen to display the full resolution and in the case of 1080p video on a 1080p screen, without any scaler being applied.

[namaiki]

Yes, but '899x375' is not half of any standard resolution.

Also, the OSD looks blurry which it generally looks very sharp.

[leeperry]

did you try to reset MPC? what did you set in /View/Video Frame/? "touch window from inside"? it's most likely your player not instructing HR properly.

[dansrfe]

http://img510.imageshack.us/i/ghostpc.jpg/

It shows with the scaler 1920x1080 -> 899x375.

Oh sorry about that. Didn't see this picture. Yeah this is definitely not how its supposed to be working. As leeperry pointed out I think its something to do with the video frame settings in MPC.

[rahzel]

I'm using Haali Renderer with MPC HC and ReClock which ReClock's Vsync disabled. I don't see any tearing, but when I pause and resume, sometimes I see a tearing line that doesn't go away until I pause and resume again. It's either near the bottom or in the bottom half of the screen.

I'm using a Radeon 5450 connected to my LCD TV via HDMI. I have Windows 7 set to 23Hz and my TV supports 24Hz native mode. If relevant at all, I have ATI CCC vsync set to off unless the application asks for it.

edit: I've just discovered that Aero/Desktop composition can affect tearing/vsync. I've recently disabled Aero because it was causing me problems with DXVA, but I'm no longer using DXVA so I've re-enabled Aero. Now I don't see tearing in EVR or Haali. How does Aero affect tearing/vsync?

[adam777]

BTW, a new version of Halli Media splitter was released a few days ago...

[dansrfe]

Any chance of seeing a new and improved version of Haali Renderer?

[B.F.]

Not a chance, I think.
Too bad every freeware hardware renderer project remain half finished.

[Nitrius]

Just wondering, what do you gain by using Haali splitter with MPC HC? And how do you configure it to work with MPC HC?

[namaiki]

Just wondering, what do you gain by using Haali splitter with MPC HC? And how do you configure it to work with MPC HC?

For one, you get support for linked segments in MKV. Not sure about anything else.

'Configure it' by installing it.

[Barlow]

And make sure the MPC mkv splitter is disabled.

Haali's splitter has more advantages though, like better support for multiple audio streams (sometimes not selectable with MPC's splitter) and language/subtitle priorities.

[Malow]

anyone tried haali renderer with nvidia forceware v257.21?

i got tearing and jerky playback. tried various 3D settings (buffer, v-sync, etc) and nothing worked.

back to v197.77, everything works perfect.

using MPC-HC with 9800GT

[laserfan]

back to v197.77, everything works perfect.Izzat right? I can find only that the last official release was 197.45, and the last 197 beta was .57.

[dansrfe]

is Haali Renderer open-source by any chance? If so I think this project needs to be restarted and the renderer definitely needs some bug fixes and improvements.

[73ChargerFan]

is Haali Renderer open-source by any chance?

No it isn't.

[dansrfe]

Dear Haali,

If you are still out there and visit doom9, can you please make your renderer open source for the benefit of videokind.

Thanks :)

[Keiyakusha]

dansrfe
Believe it or not, it was asked so many times so now we can say that there is no hope.

[Malow]

Izzat right? I can find only that the last official release was 197.45, and the last 197 beta was .57.

http://downloads.guru3d.com/Forceware-197.77-Win-XP-32-bit-WHQL-download-2554.html

found here. was the latest ive found before 2xx

[dansrfe]

Can someone at least make a patch or bugfix for the Macrovision error when playing DVD's in Win 7? That's the only problem I have. Everything else works great for me with Haali Renderer.

[leeperry]

new build of the HMS package available: http://haali.su/mkv/
14/08/2010
Fixed items:
Fixed aspect ratio processing in certain Matroska files, which caused errors on open

[dansrfe]

Bugfix for the Macrovision error when playing DVD's in Win 7! :(

[oddball]

I've noticed when Haali is used as splitter instead of internal MPC-HC's splitter I get more dropped frames by scrolling up and down a webpage during playback. Any idea why? This is worse in combination with CoreAVC than DXVA although DXVA does it as well. Just not as badly. Not that you should be doing anything other than watching the video of course :)

[LigH]

Just noticed:

While an OpenGL application runs, the Haali Renderer silently fails and simply shows blackness. VRM9 Renderless at least reports a problem:

---------------------------
Error creating DX9 allocation presenter
---------------------------
CreateDevice failed

D3DERR_OUTOFVIDEOMEMORY
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

[JanWillem32]

MPC-HC's VMR-9 (renderless), EVR CP and EVR Sync have a few error messages built-in. I do hope a few more can be added soon, as a lot of items can still fail silently.

[mzso]

Hi!
How is this renderer supposed to work? Because anytime I tried it all it did for scaling was magnify pixels into blocks, which is totally hideous. But why doesn't it work? All the other renderers are functioning.

[mzso]

Haali renderer looks like this. With huge blocks. Can anyone at least give a hint what could cause it to show such broken rendering?
http://thumbnails37.imagebam.com/14487/cef530144860452.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/cef530144860452)

[Thunderbolt8]

somethings cleary wrong there (dont ask me what it is though), thats not the normal image quality. maybe others can help if you post your (player) configuration

[mzso]

somethings cleary wrong there (dont ask me what it is though), thats not the normal image quality. maybe others can help if you post your (player) configuration

So far it seems player independent. Looks like that with MPC-HC, kmplayer, potplayer. Also changing the renderers settings do nothing to help the issue

[namaiki]

Is Haali Renderer loading in those situations? Check the Play-> Filters menu (in MPC-HC).

[mzso]

Is Haali Renderer loading in those situations? Check the Play-> Filters menu (in MPC-HC).

Yeah. It alway loads, like this.

[ForceX]

Funny. Turn on Haali's OSD and post a screenshot. Also, try changing the Sharpness slider, see if that has an effect on the picture.

[mzso]

Funny. Turn on Haali's OSD and post a screenshot. Also, try changing the Sharpness slider, see if that has an effect on the picture.

Here's one.
http://thumbnails56.imagebam.com/14537/7f8f1f145362212.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/7f8f1f145362212)
I didn't notice any change when I moved the slider.

[namaiki]

What else is being loaded? Any chance that there is any other filter that might be doing resizing like DirectVobSub's double resolution option? (though it is already weird if the sharpness setting in Haali Renderer isn't working)

[mzso]

What else is being loaded? Any chance that there is any other filter that might be doing resizing like DirectVobSub's double resolution option? (though it is already weird if the sharpness setting in Haali Renderer isn't working)

Nothing of the sort... I'm clueless.

[Mark_A_W]

Why don't you guys try madVR instead of Haali Renderer?

I replaced HR as soon as madVR was released, with no regrets at all.

[mzso]

Why don't you guys try madVR instead of Haali Renderer?

I replaced HR as soon as madVR was released, with no regrets at all.

Because its too heavy for all videos. Plus it tends to cause hangs.

[blaster00]

Haali renderer looks like this. With huge blocks. Can anyone at least give a hint what could cause it to show such broken rendering?
http://thumbnails37.imagebam.com/14487/cef530144860452.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/cef530144860452)

I got the same quality with my ATI mobile HD3470 card. But it works fine with my Intel buildin card. I am using a thinkpad laptop with switchable display card. And I kept all softwares and drivers up to date.

[blaster00]

Because its too heavy for all videos. Plus it tends to cause hangs.

Because the author refused to make a x64 build.

[Mark_A_W]

Because its too heavy for all videos. Plus it tends to cause hangs.

Get a proper PC. It doesn't hang for me - v0.73 is awesome.

Because the author refused to make a x64 build.

x64 is completely pointless for video playback. No video playback application should ever need more that 2GB of ram.

I run exclusively 32 bit video filters on a 64 bit PC, there is no problem.

[leeperry]

Haali renderer looks like this. With huge blocks. Can anyone at least give a hint what could cause it to show such broken rendering?
http://thumbnails37.imagebam.com/14487/cef530144860452.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/cef530144860452)
IIRC, there's an option that requires a reboot in Rivatuner that will fix this problem on ATi hardware...something to do w/ PS support IIRC. Read the last pages of this thread, it was discussed here I think.

Make sure not to use HR in YUY2 as its BT.601/709 coeffs are borked...you're not getting the right colors.

[Hera]

64-bit CPUs have twice the amount of registers - which means less need to access L1/2/3 cache which is slower.

[fastplayer]

64-bit CPUs have twice the amount of registers - which means less need to access L1/2/3 cache which is slower.
...and pointers are - surprise, surprise - twice as big as in 32-bit...

By the way, what is the point of this thread? There hasn't been one HR-related fix/update in HMS for years which means it's practically dead and anybody using it, is just looking for trouble. Why?

[Hera]

...and pointers are - surprise, surprise - twice as big as in 32-bit...

By the way, what is the point of this thread? There hasn't been one HR-related fix/update in HMS for years which means it's practically dead and anybody using it, is just looking for trouble. Why?

EVR hasn't caught up yet.
EX: EVR drops audio when it cannot catch up, Haali doesn't. (Just frame-skipping doesn't interfere with the experience as much)

[mzso]

Get a proper PC. It doesn't hang for me - v0.73 is awesome.



x64 is completely pointless for video playback. No video playback application should ever need more that 2GB of ram.

I run exclusively 32 bit video filters on a 64 bit PC, there is no problem.
I have a proper PC.
IIRC, there's an option that requires a reboot in Rivatuner that will fix this problem on ATi hardware...something to do w/ PS support IIRC. Read the last pages of this thread, it was discussed here I think.

Make sure not to use HR in YUY2 as its BT.601/709 coeffs are borked...you're not getting the right colors.
Thanks for the tip. I'll try check it out.
I got the same quality with my ATI mobile HD3470 card. But it works fine with my Intel buildin card. I am using a thinkpad laptop with switchable display card. And I kept all softwares and drivers up to date.
Kind of suspected it might turn out to be a video card issue...

[BetaBoy]

Contrast to Fastplayer's statement, HMS has never been more popular or is distributed more then it is right now.

In fact we have been working on it over the past few months and plan a first release with CoreAVC 3.0 and for CoreMVC 3D. This new version will not address all the issues, but it will start the ball rolling again to work on it as reports come in.

[Mark_A_W]

The Splitter or the Renderer? I used both for years and years.

But the Renderer has never played smooth for HD video - not completely. madVR is as smooth as silk.

And the splitter doesn't label the audio streams on Bluray - makes it impossible to use. LAVSplitter does everything, very, very well.

[Octo-puss]

and plan a first release with CoreAVC 3.0
LOL!!!!!
So in a few years?

[fastplayer]

Contrast to Fastplayer's statement, HMS has never been more popular or is distributed more then it is right now.
Just to clarify: I was talking about the included renderer, not the splitter package in general.

[clsid]

I would be nice to see a public bug tracker for Haali and CoreCodec products. With active feedback from a developer. Because currently there is no central place to report bugs, or view known bugs, the communication sucks, feedback takes way too long if any at all, and it takes ages for bugs to be fixed or even acknowledged.

[blaster00]

IIRC, there's an option that requires a reboot in Rivatuner that will fix this problem on ATi hardware...something to do w/ PS support IIRC. Read the last pages of this thread, it was discussed here I think.

Make sure not to use HR in YUY2 as its BT.601/709 coeffs are borked...you're not getting the right colors.

Didn't see any difference between RGB32 and YUY2. Is it just me or HR does it ok now?

[leeperry]

Didn't see any difference between RGB32 and YUY2. Is it just me or HR does it ok now?
it does not AFAIK, try this: rec709.mkv (http://www.mediafire.com/?sfd13vqrgn7vh6i)

[blaster00]

it does not AFAIK, try this: rec709.mkv (http://www.mediafire.com/?sfd13vqrgn7vh6i)

You are right, there are some difference.But RGB32 and YUY2@BT.601 are same, YUY2@BT.709 and YUY2@auto are same. And I think RGB32 is a little wired... Which one is right?
I am a little confused. The clip is in BT.709, right? So if HR is working fine, set YUY2 in coreave and BT.709 or auto in HR are ok; set RGB32 in coreavc will also be ok. If HR is wrong, while, RGB32 should be right.
I am changing color space from coreavc, because I do not have ffdshow installed.

RGB32
http://thumbnails56.imagebam.com/14573/386af8145724809.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/386af8145724809)
YUY2 601
http://thumbnails48.imagebam.com/14573/d1de3b145724815.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/d1de3b145724815)
YUY2 709
http://thumbnails37.imagebam.com/14573/4db73c145724823.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/4db73c145724823)
YUY2 auto
http://thumbnails55.imagebam.com/14573/3ed0c8145724827.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/3ed0c8145724827)