Haali Renderer

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi Oddball,

Out of interest.... Is there any particular reason why you want to keep your files as .TS streams?

By the time you've run them thru' MPEG2 Repair you might as well have run them thru' HDTVtoMPEG2 and re-muxed the streams into the .MPG container....

Just a thought!

[oddball]

I tried running it through HDTV2MPEG and it keeps splitting the files into 1GB chunks whereas I want to keep it in one big file. I could not playback the chunks either.

EDIT: In the end I just ran it through Avidemux and set the audio sync to -500 which seems close enough. There are flaws in this rip anyhow such as telecine 'bounce' (Image moves up and down where the telecine machine is not set correctly. Either that or the source film was problematic). I won't go into more detail than that due to this boards rules. Thanks for the suggestions though even if they did not help much.

[chros]

I don't know if it was mentioned: this renderer mess up the display AR on anamorphic mp4-s. No problem with Overlay or WRM9 renderless.

[Seb.26]

I don't know if it was mentioned: this renderer mess up the display AR on anamorphic mp4-s. No problem with Overlay or WRM9 renderless.
+1 ... same problem with anamoprhic video ... numeric key '2' in MPC is usefull ... ;)

[Seb.26]

An idea of new feature : An option to display some informations about the buffer, to detect underflow for exemple ... this could be usefull, not ?

[chros]

+1 ... same problem with anamoprhic video ... numeric key '2' in MPC is usefull ... ;)
I know this, but a bug is a bug ... :)

[MaXi_TK96]

I am having a specific subtitle problem with Haali renderer, the same subtitles are displaying twice: once in the actual picture frame and then outside of it (as much bigger here). I am using MPC (Haali renderer) with Haali splitter and DirectVobSub. If I disable sub showing from DirectVobSub then both subs will be gone. This behaviour seems to be depending on the subtitle type, ASS subtitles are being displayed twice but not SRT subs. Is there some setting I am missing or is this about something else ?

[foxyshadis]

This only happens with Haali, and not VMR9? If both, it sounds more like an MPC & DirectVobSub interaction problem. A bit odd to use them together with a DX9 renderer anyway, since MPC internally already has exactly the same code as directvobsub; normally it'd be used in overlay or other players.

[MaXi_TK96]

This only happens with Haali, and not VMR9? If both, it sounds more like an MPC & DirectVobSub interaction problem. A bit odd to use them together with a DX9 renderer anyway, since MPC internally already has exactly the same code as directvobsub; normally it'd be used in overlay or other players.

Okay, I feel so stupid here: this was all due to MPC's subtitling engine starting to work when using Haali renderer or VMR9. I though I had disabled MPC's subtitling engine from the options menu but apparently it needs to be disabled from playback menu too. Now working as I wanted. As far as the renderer goes I was surprised about how good the output was. If only files would start playing faster... still great work!

[Kador]

Hi, why is it tv-scale only ???

[Haali]

Hi, why is it tv-scale only ???
Because I don't have any PC-scale files.

[foxyshadis]

That's odd, it's always PC-scale for me, I usually run a levels beforehand if I need to.

[breez]

PC scale for me too. I suggest adding an option TV-scale/PC-scale though.

[Haali]

Just to make sure I'm not confusing things, TV scale usually means 16-235 Y levels, and that's what is usually used on DVDs and stuff like that. Are you saying that your files that use the full 0-255 range? In that case you can simply use VMR9 as its default behaviour was to use the full range. One of the reasons I've made this renderer was to correct the levels problem.

[foxyshadis]

Yeah, on my ATI X1400 system it decodes 0-255->0-255. VMR9 has the same behavior. It's been this way through several driver revisions. I don't mind it this way.

[anonymez]

in addition to post #160. this one is with 1440x1080 mpeg2 streams, i just get a black screen and MPC locks up. link to a small (4mb) sample below to save you the trouble

http://www.sendspace.com/file/cb9hp1

a few observations to cancel a few things out:

-works fine in overlay & vmr
-1920x1080 mpeg2 streams play fine
-xvid stream at the same res, 1440x1080 plays too
-container and audio makes no difference, tried ts/ps/es
-tried different splitters/decoders
-tried on two different systems, each with decent graphics cards (ati X800XL & nvidia 7900GT)

[Seb.26]

Just to make sure I'm not confusing things, TV scale usually means 16-235 Y levels, and that's what is usually used on DVDs and stuff like that. Are you saying that your files that use the full 0-255 range? In that case you can simply use VMR9 as its default behaviour was to use the full range. One of the reasons I've made this renderer was to correct the levels problem.
Are you saying that your render do the 16..235 -> 0..255 re-scale ?! :scared:

And what happen if the source is RGB32 ? ...

[Egh]

Are you saying that your render do the 16..235 -> 0..255 re-scale ?! :scared:

And what happen if the source is RGB32 ? ...

well incoming *RGB32* is not a problem per se, since it's not a luma-chroma type of colorspace even.

The problem might actually arise if YV12 received by the renderer has been already converted to 0..255 range.

Some scenarios this might happen:


Video is decoded by CoreAVC and VMR9 correction is on
h264 is decoded by ffdshow but the video is inherently fullrange.


LOL, it seems this topic becomes an epidemic :) Note that I suspect ffdshow doesn't do proper conversion to RGB32 if video is already in fullrange. See here for some discussion on that topic: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=884562#post884562

[Haali]

Are you saying that your render do the 16..235 -> 0..255 re-scale ?! :scared:

Yes, it does.

And what happen if the source is RGB32 ? ...

RGB32 is not scaled.

[foxyshadis]

The problem might actually arise if YV12 received by the renderer has been already converted to 0..255 range.
YUY2, you mean. And yeah, seems to be the longest running fountain of confusion, but at least it's getting better over time.

Haali, does your renderer send out Quality messages? I'm trying to capture them (in ffdshow) but haven't been successful so far; but then again, I haven't been able to pick up vmr9's either so I may be doing it wrong somehow.

Edit: Oh, it's working in VMR9 now, but it seems none are being sent from yours.

[Haali]

YUY2, you mean. And yeah, seems to be the longest running fountain of confusion, but at least it's getting better over time.

Haali, does your renderer send out Quality messages? I'm trying to capture them (in ffdshow) but haven't been successful so far; but then again, I haven't been able to pick up vmr9's either so I may be doing it wrong somehow.

Edit: Oh, it's working in VMR9 now, but it seems none are being sent from yours.
The result was always much uglier with the messages enabled (e.g. ffdshow would stop decoding for half a minute under some circumstances), so I disabled them. Maybe I'll add an option to turn them on in preferences.

[foxyshadis]

I'm trying to fix ffdshow's QoS handling now, I thought I was going batty until I got it working with VMR9. =p Even if it's just a reg hack for now, I'd like to be able to work with it. Thanks.

[Peuj]

Something I don't get:

Ok Haali Renderer only supports colorspaces RGB32 and YUY2 and always does TV-scale-> PC-scale conversion.

So is this renderer only useful to watch videos on a PC ?
If I want to watch a movie on my TV I need PC-scale-> TV-scale, no ?
Usually I get a best image on my TV with WMR9 and YV12 and on my PC with WMR9 and RGB32.

For information, most of my videos are YV12, so to be able to use Haali Renderer I need to set the output colorspace with ffdshow to YUY2 or RGB32. But on my computer, set the output colorspace to YUY2 + Haali Renderer takes really too much CPU (more than RGB32 + HQ) and the video lags a lot , so I can only use RGB32 with Haali Renderer.
I don't have this problem with WRM9 + YUY2.

My config:
Number of cores 1
Number of threads 2 (max 2)
Name Intel Pentium 4
Codename Prescott
Specification Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.40GHz
Package Socket 478 mPGA (platform ID = 2h)
CPUID F.3.4
Extended CPUID F.3
Core Stepping D0
Technology 90 nm
Core Speed 3400.1 MHz (17.0 x 200.0 MHz)
Rated Bus speed 800.0 MHz
Stock frequency 3400 MHz
Instructions sets MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3

Thanks

[Egh]

Something I don't get:

Ok Haali Renderer only supports colorspaces RGB32 and YUY2 and always does TV-scale-> PC-scale conversion.

So is this renderer only useful to watch videos on a PC ?
If I want to watch a movie on my TV I need PC-scale-> TV-scale, no ?
Usually I get a best image on my TV with WMR9 and YV12 and on my PC with WMR9 and RGB32.



You hardly need Haali renderer to watch videos on TV imo. As for VMR9+YV12 vs VMR9+RGB32, you can try enabling range correction in ffdshow (either with Levels or avs filter ColorYUV(levels="TV->PC"). See what better looks on your screen.

If input space is YUY2 then Haali renderer does require more CPU, it is not a bug, it's a known feature :)

[Peuj]

You hardly need Haali renderer to watch videos on TV imo. As for VMR9+YV12 vs VMR9+RGB32, you can try enabling range correction in ffdshow (either with Levels or avs filter ColorYUV(levels="TV->PC"). See what better looks on your screen.

Ok thanks I will try that but just to be sure I understand:
I have a TV-scale video, Haali Renderer will re-scale it to PC-scale and then I do a range correction to re-scale to TV-scale. :confused:

If input space is YUY2 then Haali renderer does require more CPU, it is not a bug, it's a known feature :)
:D

[Seb.26]

Yes, it does.
RGB32 is not scaled.
Ok, all is perfect for me about ColorSpace ... thanks a lot ! :)

PS: Have you think about creating a debug version of your render ? ... with a lot of debug trace in ASCII file ...
... I'm ok to run it on my system for helping you to understand why some users (I'm in) have black screen for more than 10s before playback start ... ;)

[chros]

Is there out any docs or tutorial about the colorspaces (not specs, but user-friendly guides) ?
I don't get anything at all about what you're talking about ... :)

[Egh]

Is there out any docs or tutorial about the colorspaces (not specs, but user-friendly guides) ?
I don't get anything at all about what you're talking about ... :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YUV ftw:P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB_color_model
http://www.fourcc.org/fccyvrgb.php

concerning the signal used for digital television see
http://www.stewe.org/itu-recs/bt601.pdf#search=%22ITU-R%20BT.601-5%22

:search:

[Eretria-chan]

Whenever I use Haali's Renderer and Reclock DirectShow filter to play Sonic X sources (other sources seem to work fine with both filters enabled for playback), I get "floating point overflow" message. There appears to be a conflict between these on this source...
If I don't use Reclock, it works fine (only Haali). If I only use Reclock (not Haali), it works fine.
Aside from that, it also seems that Haali's rendered seems to get the aspect ratio all wrong.

But hey, aside from that, Haali is pretty much the only video renderer that works good on Vista!

This is using Zoom Player, btw.

[Haali]

Does anyone have a sample with wrong AR? All my files play with correct AR.

[Eretria-chan]

A little update...
The wrong aspect ratio was gotten if used with "Source." However, if I do select "Derived," it's fine.
But the rendered is also somewhat unstable. If paused for too long, it won't resume (it won't display the video but the audio will continue). When trying to play a new file (when playing a file), the player stops reponding.
Oh and when using the rendered it seems to like to "unhide" the mouse pointer. It tends to disappear whem Zoom Player (I take it is the player?) hides it, but then it appears right again.

All of this doesn't happen with other renderers.
Again, Zoom Player & Vista RC1 (x64).

[cc979]

just found weird bug, using ffdshow_rev404_20061017_clsid.exe and mplayerc.rev611-2.2kxp.7z

this mov/svq3 plays fine using the internal mp4/mov parser on mpc but plays very jumpy with haali splitter 07/07/2006

http://files.filefront.com/Ridge+Racer+7+TGS+06+Trailer/;6029161;/fileinfo.html

[foxyshadis]

SVQ3 doesn't work with haali's splitter, it's a known issue. The splitter doesn't include some data structure, haruhiko_yamagata knows a lot more about it and could provide details.

[cc979]

SVQ3 doesn't work with haali's splitter, it's a known issue. The splitter doesn't include some data structure, haruhiko_yamagata knows a lot more about it and could provide details.

it must be some time stamp thing or something as there was no corruption or crash just weird jumpy video

cheers anyway

[Haali]

SVQ3 doesn't work with haali's splitter, it's a known issue. The splitter doesn't include some data structure, haruhiko_yamagata knows a lot more about it and could provide details.
Do you have a sample that doesn't work? The ones in my collection play fine.

[Seb.26]

Does anyone have a sample with wrong AR? All my files play with correct AR.
I will prepare one for you this evening after job ...
... It will ok for tomorrow ... ;)

[Edit 19/10/06] I've upload a small file ( 3.4MB ) ... maybe someone can test it ...

http://membres.lycos.fr/sebfr26/Haali/Sample.mkv
( Universal intro )

Else, it's a 720*432 video with a display size of 1024*432 ( it's an anamorphic PAL DVD with top/bottom crop ... )

In any case, I will test it this evening at home ... an report if sample work or not with Haali's render ...
( I have test it with MPC and VMR9 : it's ok ... )

[Edit 20/10/06] I've done some tests yesterday, and I can't reproduce the Aspect Ratio bug ...
... I will try more this WE ... maybe the bug wasn't in the render ... I don't understand ...

[Edit 24/10/2006] Sometimes, Halli's render lost the aspect ratio, this happen with MPEG2 (DVD) by trying a jump ...

[cc979]

Do you have a sample that doesn't work? The ones in my collection play fine.

this one here
http://files.filefront.com/Ridge+Racer+7+TGS+06+Trailer/;6029161;/fileinfo.html

does not play correctly

[ChronoReverse]

This is probably the wrong place to ask but I'll try anyways.

What would cause opening files while one is already open to be slow? For example, if I open video1.mkv in Zoomplayer or MPC, then open video2.mkv, it invariably takes a long to for it to come up and it may even crash. This seems to only occur with MKV and not MP4 (I don't use Haali for AVI).

[Seb.26]

This is probably the wrong place to ask but I'll try anyways.
What would cause opening files while one is already open to be slow? For example, if I open video1.mkv in Zoomplayer or MPC, then open video2.mkv, it invariably takes a long to for it to come up and it may even crash. This seems to only occur with MKV and not MP4 (I don't use Haali for AVI).
You are speaking about Haali demuxer ( Matroska splitter ) or about Haali's render ?!
( this post is for render :D )

[chros]

Do you have a sample that doesn't work? The ones in my collection play fine.
Or this one (and a tons of one :) ): alien-resurrection-trailer-640.mov (http://www.movie-list.net/classics/alien-resurrection-trailer-640.mov)

[Seb.26]

What can be done to disable tearing with Haali's render ? ... I use :
> MPC
>> DScaler( out=YV12 )
>>> FDShow( just out=RGB32-HQ )
>>>> Reclock
>>>>> Haali's render

And there is a lot of tearing, just on the middle of the screen :scared:

... a little tech question : how could I have tearing since D3D vSync is forced in NVidia properties ?! ... The render don't use D3D ?! ...

In my mind, the render take a frame from directshow, copy it in GPU ram as a texture or something like that ... draw the texture on backbuffer with the resize shaders, swap buffer on vsync ...etc...

Another point : the buffer is used to store "input frames" ( ie: 640*480 ) or "output frames" ( ie: 1280*720 ) ...

Is it possible to have a look on source code ? :D

;)

[KoD]

This is what I do:
- in MPC "Lock back-buffer before presenting" is enabled
- in Haali's video renderer filter options "Soft Vsync" is disabled.

[ExtraEye]

Sorry for asking something that is probably answered here somehow... Though I did look through the pages of this thread and couldn't completely understand.

I use Zoom player along with ffdshow usually (outputting to RGB32 -HQ conversion) and the renderer VMR9 to view videos on a television screen (wide screen). My sources are mainly fansubs (which are mainly encoded in xvid or h264). My graphics card is Geforce 6600GT.
I tried using Halli's renderer and it worked nicely (I changed the settings to max sharpness and it was nice ^^) but it took long to load videos - normally it's done instantly and now it took about 10 seconds.

I don't really understand much about the way renderers work and people here talked about ranges and shaders and I lost track ^^

So in short I want to know if I should use the renderer or stick to VMR9 (since I pretty much always view videos on my TV).
If i switch to Halli's renderer is there a way to make it load faster?

[Seb.26]

This is what I do:
- in MPC "Lock back-buffer before presenting" is enabled
- in Haali's video renderer filter options "Soft Vsync" is disabled.
Thanks, I thing I have this too, but I will check ...

[KoD]

ExtraEye, you can't make the renderer load faster. Though, to me it looks that the last version does load faster than the previous one, but it might just be me getting accustomed. ^^

I did not know that you could chose to use Haali's renderer in ZoomPlayer. Maybe with a custom graph... But I haven't used ZoomPlayer for quite some time, things might have changed. If you are selecting VMR9 in ZoomPlayer's output options, then it uses the VMR9 Renderer and not Haali's renderer.

Seb.26, it won't cure the tearing completely, but it will be much better.

[ExtraEye]

It's pretty simple actually. all toy have to do is choose "custom" in filter control>audio/video devices and select from the list "Haali Video Renderer".
I'm absolutely sure it's using the halli renderer since it showed up instead of VMR9 in the filter properties page - and besides - the change was felt ^^
didn't really get an answer for what i asked but about the speed - does this mean in future versions this problem will be fixed/improved?

[Haali]

didn't really get an answer for what i asked but about the speed - does this mean in future versions this problem will be fixed/improved?
If you mean a startup delay around ~10s, then I've been unable to reproduce it on my machines so far.

[ExtraEye]

Yes that's what I meant.
Thanks for the reply anyhow.

[kurt]

no 10s starting problems here; neither with nvidia gf 6800 nor with ati radeon 1400...

[anonymez]

new versions still have the mpeg2 1440x1088 bug (just immediately closes the player without error message now), as well as the seeking issue in DVDs