Mpeg4-Part10 (H.264) hardware encoder

[srfscenar]

Hi all.
I work for a company who needs to encode movies into Mpeg4 Part10 (H.264). That means that we must built a system with SDI input (for best results) and real time encoding.
I want to know please what kind of hardware we could use for the encoding.

I did a search in the forum but i couldn't find anything usefull.
Please, i would appreciate any answer from anyone who knows.

Thanx!

[Dark Shikari]

For standard-definition input, you definitely don't need special hardware; I know a company that uses an 8-core Xeon server for real-time SD encoding and uses x264 on near-max settings; no fancy dedicated hardware required.

If you want to do HD though, you're much more restricted; even with that kind of hardware, 1080i is quite difficult and will require you to vastly lower your encoding settings to near-minimum motion search/etc.

You mean something like this?

http://www.tandbergtv.com/productvie...productid=1313

No offense, but from the first impression your company made on this board I doubt that they can afford it.

Also, you could ask Golgot13 on this board, he seems to know a lot about semi-professional hardware AVC solutions.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by honai

You mean something like this?

http://www.tandbergtv.com/productvie...productid=1313

No offense but Tandberg don't make a good SD H.264 encoders.

No offense, but if you read the link you'd have realized it's a HD AVC encoder, used e.g. by Premiere HD - who undoubtedly broadcast the highest quality streams out there.

And do you have benchmarks for real-time SD content from Tandberg? I would like to see you evidence that "Tandberg don't make a good SD H.264 encoders".

[nm]

Originally Posted by srfscenar

Hi all.
I work for a company who needs to encode movies into Mpeg4 Part10 (H.264). That means that we must built a system with SDI input (for best results) and real time encoding.
I want to know please what kind of hardware we could use for the encoding.

There is a list of both software and hardware encoders and decoders in this sticky thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=95939

[audyovydeo]

Originally Posted by srfscenar

I want to know please what kind of hardware we could use for the encoding.

http://www.ateme.com ???

cheers
audyovydeo

[srfscenar]

Thanx alot for your answers!
I forgot to say something that serious. I need SD and i need to encode to a Mpeg2-TS file.
Tandberg seems fine but i dont know if it encodes to a file.

[srfscenar]

Originally Posted by Dark Shikari

For standard-definition input, you definitely don't need special hardware; I know a company that uses an 8-core Xeon server for real-time SD encoding and uses x264 on near-max settings; no fancy dedicated hardware required.

If you want to do HD though, you're much more restricted; even with that kind of hardware, 1080i is quite difficult and will require you to vastly lower your encoding settings to near-minimum motion search/etc.

That sounds great. But how they take their input? From a file?
I need an SDI input.

I forgot to say something that serious. I need SD and i need to encode to a Mpeg2-TS file.
Tandberg seems fine but i dont know if it encodes to a file.

Yes, that's possible. If you're interested you should talk directly to a Tandberg sales representative. They will tell you which setup is the right one for your scenario.

[SBaT]

If you would have followed that Ateme link you would have found straight one solution filling your needs. Here is a direct link for Kyrion 2100 .pdf http://extranet.ateme.com/download.php?file=802

[TEB]

Well as much as it bothers me to say this (i dont like the big companies..) coming from the broadcast industry, Tandberg, Sci-Atl, and harmonic + enivio makes the top tier mpeg4 AVC encoders

[pandy]

Originally Posted by honai

And do you have benchmarks for real-time SD content from Tandberg? I would like to see you evidence that "Tandberg don't make a good SD H.264 encoders".

Proof are only what i see in regular broadcasted services of one of the brodacster - broadcaster use a Tandberg h.264 encoders - both for SD and HD broadcasts, accordingly to the words of broadcaster: "there is some issue on SD Tandberg h.264 encoders but Tandberg will not fix these problem quickly" so result is rather poor quality of encoded SD h.264 brodacst. Broadcaster use offline h.264 encoders for other than real live video works.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by srfscenar

That sounds great. But how they take their input? From a file?
I need an SDI input.

There is plenty of SDI Input/Output solutions for PC.
There at least few hardware h.264 SD encoders on the market, also all HD encoders should can encode SD signal without any problem.

[TEB]

Well the quality is a result of the actual bitrate used too.. Do u know the bitrate on other h264 channels encoded with other encoders? It can easliy be an apple to orange comparison if not..

[Golgot13]

Originally Posted by honai

Also, you could ask Golgot13 on this board, he seems to know a lot about semi-professional hardware AVC solutions.

Vitec Multimedia:
http://www.vitecmm.com/productv2.php?id=52

Ateme:
http://www.ateme.com/BB_techno.php

Inlet:
http://www.inlethd.com/encoding/18/16/Fathom/


All solution can mux H264 file encoded on TS stream.
But I recommand Manzanita software to make a fully compliant MPEG2-TS file
(work well on all STB)

But there are many more H264 SD card encoder. Today the best is software encoder
because they produce a better quality in realtime or near with new PC (Intel C2Duo or Quad).


About SD encoder for broadcasting, here some best company which make the best solution:
- Ateme for IPTV and all DVB ( One of best picture, of course it's Ateme )
- GrassValley for IPTV and DVB (some broadcasters said me there is some problem of quality/compatibility)
- TandBerg for IPTV and DVB (problem of quality but it solve ?)
- Harmonic for DVB ( the HD version is famous but there is SD too)

[pandy]

Originally Posted by TEB

Well the quality is a result of the actual bitrate used too.. Do u know the bitrate on other h264 channels encoded with other encoders? It can easliy be an apple to orange comparison if not..

SD 2.5 - 3mbps - quality much worse than 1920x1080i with 8 - 10 mbps

[TEB]

i was refering to content in the same profile...

[Golgot13]

Originally Posted by pandy

SD 2.5 - 3mbps - quality much worse than 1920x1080i with 8 - 10 mbps

SD between 0,7Mbps to 1,5Mbps up to Full D1
HD between 5Mbps to 10Mbps (depend size V=1080 but H= 960 or 1280 or 1440 or 1920)

[bobololo]

Originally Posted by srfscenar

Hi all.
I work for a company who needs to encode movies into Mpeg4 Part10 (H.264). That means that we must built a system with SDI input (for best results) and real time encoding.
I want to know please what kind of hardware we could use for the encoding.

The most common hardware professional encoders are from harmonic, scientific atlanta, tandberg, grass valley and ateme. I don't know the budget your company has but those equipments are pretty expensive.

Anyway, could you please elaborate a little bit more your application? That would help to better understand your need and hopefully provide alternative approach that could fit your need. What is the purpose of the encoded stream? Is it for archiving or vod streaming? What is the targeted bitrate? Do you have constraints on the rate control (cbr, vbr)?

[bobololo]

Originally Posted by pandy

No offense but Tandberg don't make a good SD H.264 encoders.

No offense but I would say their latest generation encoders are pretty good

[Golgot13]

Originally Posted by bobololo

No offense but I would say their latest generation encoders are pretty good

Are you sure ?
I didn't see the SD encoder on true broascasting condition
(except on some show like IBC but you know on show everything
are beautiful ...).
But some friend broadcaster (from east) bought it, new version
(~ software update) to replace the bad H264 encoder from GrassValley (bad support exactly...).
So I think the quality may be good (or the support is really the best ?).

[pandy]

Originally Posted by Golgot13

SD between 0,7Mbps to 1,5Mbps in Full D1
HD between 5Mbps to 10Mbps (depend size V=1080 but H= 960 or 1280 or 1440 or 1920)

D1 - 2,5Mbps average - quality is worse than MPEG-2 4,5mbps average - Tandberg has issue with bitrate managment - "something is wrong here" - this is statement form Tandberg - maybe will be fixed till half 2008.

[Golgot13]

Originally Posted by pandy

D1 - 2,5Mbps average - quality is worse than MPEG-2 4,5mbps average - Tandberg has issue with bitrate managment - "something is wrong here" - this is statement form Tandberg - maybe will be fixed till half 2008.

Sorry a little mistake, it's up to full D1 (0,7Mbps at 352x576 or 352x480).
Some ISP in France use H264 encoder at 1.5Mbps for SD channel.
About HD, I saw on NAB some HD video 1920x1080 encoded at less than 3Mbps
from NTT laboratory (it's not a realtime encoding but less than 3Mbps !!!!).

[Sergey A. Sablin]

Originally Posted by Golgot13

Sorry a little mistake, it's up to full D1 (0,7Mbps at 352x576 or 352x480).
Some ISP in France use H264 encoder at 1.5Mbps for SD channel.
About HD, I saw on NAB some HD video 1920x1080 encoded at less than 3Mbps
from NTT laboratory (it's not a realtime encoding but less than 3Mbps !!!!).

it was very slowmo videos, so it wasn't a problem to encode them at 3mbps. properly prepared videos with no significant motion might be encoded even in less bandwidth.

[Golgot13]

Originally Posted by Sergey A. Sablin

it was very slowmo videos, so it wasn't a problem to encode them at 3mbps. properly prepared videos with no significant motion might be encoded even in less bandwidth.

Yes, a big part of video was a landscape or flower garden. But there is some part with big move/motion
(eg. camera inside a taxi in Tokyo city) and this part is much hard to be encoded.
This video were encoded with a H264 X pass software encoder
(NTT japanese guy said me some video were encoded in 13 pass!!!)

[Sergey A. Sablin]

Originally Posted by Golgot13

This video were encoded with a H264 X pass software encoder
(NTT japanese guy said me some video were encoded in 13 pass!!!)

marketing...
I've been there and nobody there can describe even the full list of encoder' features, not to mention how much gain encoder takes of additional pass.

[Dark Shikari]

Originally Posted by Golgot13

Yes, a big part of video was a landscape or flower garden. But there is some part with big move/motion
(eg. camera inside a taxi in Tokyo city) and this part is much hard to be encoded.
This video were encoded with a H264 X pass software encoder
(NTT japanese guy said me some video were encoded in 13 pass!!!)

If they actually are using 13 passes, they're idiots.

Likely they're not total retards, and instead what you heard was known as "marketingspeak"

[bobololo]

Originally Posted by Golgot13

Are you sure ?
I didn't see the SD encoder on true broascasting condition
(except on some show like IBC but you know on show everything
are beautiful ...).
But some friend broadcaster (from east) bought it, new version
(~ software update) to replace the bad H264 encoder from GrassValley (bad support exactly...).
So I think the quality may be good (or the support is really the best ?).

Yes, speaking about their latest design (en8030/en8090), from what I've seen so far and from several feedbacks, it's rather good. Actually, when dealing with tv contents encoding, it brings much better results than first generation avc realtime encoders (tandberg en5930/en5990, vibe avc, etc.) as well as many software encoders (mc, x264, etc). Some telcos even used to recommend the use of these encoders to produce VOD contents instead of software encoders.

Originally Posted by pandy

D1 - 2,5Mbps average - quality is worse than MPEG-2 4,5mbps average - Tandberg has issue with bitrate managment - "something is wrong here" - this is statement form Tandberg - maybe will be fixed till half 2008.

This is quite surprising. Could you capture a short stream from your TV service that is supposed to run these encoders ? I'd be interested to have a look at them.