V.I Stereo to 5.1 Converter VST Plugin Suite

[MiGster]

;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[MiGster]

On your Stereo to 5.1 Converter screen which way is INCREASE effect left or right on each of the four sliders. Sorry, I'm a little dense....really getting into this though thanks to you.

[ursamtl]

The bottom three sliders increase the effect as you move them to the right. The Width Correction slider is slightly different. In its center position, the signal passes through it unchanged. Move it to the left, and the stereo image narrows; move it to the right of center and the width increases.

I'm glad you're enjoying the conversion hobby. It can become quite addictive.

Regards,
Steve.

[arnie.d]

I tried V.I for the firt time today. I think even I can make a 5.1 upmix now! :)I noticed when using the default settings the center channel was twice as loud as the FR and FL channels, is this normal? I've set the center channel output to -6, then the channels are about the same volume.
Why are the center and LFE limiting threshold 0,85 by default?

[ursamtl]

Hi arnie. I'm glad you're enjoying V.I. I'm surprised your center channel was so loud. One complaint I've had in the past is that it's not loud enough! As for the 0.85 setting, it was just a default setting in the layout. Feel free to change it to something that works better for you.

Regards,
Steve.

[f@chance]

The complaint about the center channel is too loud and the FR & FL not loud enough may come from the impression that since the majority of scenes are conversation it should be full surround sound, but that is not desirable.

I do a lot of TV episode encodings and use the Movie Mode. In TV episodes most of the sound will come from the centre speaker and if you listen to the separate MONO files you will notice that in the FR & FL the voices are very faint, that is by intention and should be so.

My settings for FL & FR are set at -2.0 and the sliders are at default with the exceptions of the two bottem ones. The bottom one is at 7 and the next to bottom one is at 8.

After V.I. does its job I create 6 MONO wave files and open the Center channel, FR, SR & LFE in soundforge. I check the visual feedback to see if they have not deviated from what I have done in the past. Then I use the NORMALIZE process to attenuate the Center channel by just about 2 to 3 db from what it was.

This gives me a very pleasing DD 5.1 sound track especially as I like to turn up the volume. When playing back Stargate Atlantis for example, 75% of the sound comes from the centre channel with hints of ambience from the 4 others. But during the theme or battle scenes I get the full tilt boogie surround sound as expected. I also noticed that if you turn up the volume it will give a better surround sound effect with these settings.

Hope this helps and Steve thanks again for V.I. I am using this especially for Stargate Atlantis since the sound track that accompanies the HDTV broadcast is only DD 2.0.

[ursamtl]

I'm happy to get the feedback and the detailed description of how you're using V.I. This will certainly help others who are trying to improve the soundtracks of TV series on DVD, etc.

By the way, check back in the coming days (perhaps even by the weekend). The next version of V.I is just about ready to roll out. :)

[guada 2]

@ Hello ursamtl, :)

" To be honest, I have no idea, but I can guess that it's because Wavelab's surround mode assumes an euqla number of inputs and outputs. I might try creating a version of V.I with dummy inputs to see if that works.

Thanks for the compliments. I'm glad you enjoy V.I " (ursamtl)


Good news.
After having installed SONAR 5 PRODUCER EDITION, VI function perfectly on Steinberg Wavelab 5.
Strange.... (I do not know more) but it functions in "Mode VST VI" with effect DirectX.

Your point of view on the question?

[ursamtl]

That's very strange. It sounds like Sonar is wrapping V.I as a DX effect and then Wavelab is in turn wrapping it as a VST of a DX of a VST!

[ursamtl]

@ Hello ursamtl, :)

" To be honest, I have no idea, but I can guess that it's because Wavelab's surround mode assumes an euqla number of inputs and outputs. I might try creating a version of V.I with dummy inputs to see if that works.

Thanks for the compliments. I'm glad you enjoy V.I " (ursamtl)


Good news.
After having installed SONAR 5 PRODUCER EDITION, VI function perfectly on Steinberg Wavelab 5.
Strange.... (I do not know more) but it functions in "Mode VST VI" with effect DirectX.

Your point of view on the question?

Guada,

I'm curious, does V.I work in Sonar as well? If so, I'll add it to the list of supported hosts and perhaps someday find some info for a guide.

[guada 2]

@ursamtl

Yes, It functions without problem with Sonar5 PE(5.0).
To soon ;)

[guada 2]

@ursamtl

After some REAL tests.

I am sorry to say to you that VI and II does not function with Sonar5. :(
I do not understand why, whereas it uses it perfectly well.

However Wavelab is OK.

You have an idea.

[guada 2]

Its me again ursamtl,

Good news. :)

I reassure you, it functions with mode FX (audio effect) and not with "inserting effect" or "treating effect" (by making a double clic on the track).

it is OK for CAKEWALK SONAR PRODUCER EDITION (5.0).

You add it to list Now. :)

[ursamtl]

Ladies and gentlemen....

I am very happy to announce that I've just released V.I VST Stereo to 5.1 Converter Suite version 1.00. I edited the guide at the beginning of this thread to reflect the new release.

New features: User Interface updated.
New installer places VST dll files in VST folder, creates separate folder and Start menu links to documents, then installs Plogue Bidule layouts if you have Bidule.
Surround algorithms optimized for cleaner sound and lower CPU usage.
Ability to save and load patch banks added.
fLfR, CLFE, and sLsR plugins created for VST hosts that support stereo VSTs only.I have also completed tests on a completely free (and of course legal) method of producing stereo to 5.1 conversions using the plugin suite. I'll be posting a guide shortly. I still think Plogue Bidule ROCKS and I strongly encourage you to buy it, but for those who can't afford it right now, my guide will be an option. Look for it soon!

Regards,
Steve.

[ursamtl]

I am pleased to announce that I've just released V.I VST Stereo to 5.1 Converter Suite, version 1.1.

After last week's release of V.I Suite 1.0, I discovered that three out of the over 200 connections inside V.I had been inadvertently disconnected. This reduced the amount of ambience in the surround channels. This applies to the companion plugin sLsR as well. I've fixed this in version 1.1 and also added an improved front ambience algorithm that I've been working on. This new front ambience change applies to the companion plugin fLfR as well. I hope you'll like the result!

You can download V.I VST Suite here (3.8MB):

V.I Suite 1.1 Installer ( http://stevethomson.ca/audio/guides/VI_Setup.exe) or as a zip file V.I Suite 1.1 Zip file ( http://stevethomson.ca/audio/guides/VI_Setup.zip)

IMPORTANT!!!: This installer automatically checks your PC's registry for the current shared VST Plugins folder and defaults to installing the plugin in this folder. Be sure the VST host program you use (Plogue Bidule, Cubase, Nuendo, etc.) is set to read this directory. If your system does not have a default VST directory, the V.I Suite installer will place the files in a subdirectory of your Program Files folder called "V.I Suite." Of course, you can change this during the installation to whatever destination you wish.


Regards,
Steve.

[ursamtl]

By the way, some people have noticed the error message "Some parameters could not be loaded" when opening the Plogue Bidule layouts for V.I. I've noticed this as well. Specifically, the effects presets I stored in V.I don't load. The plugin still works, but you may have to click the Load button at the top and load the vi.fxb effects presets file. The folks at Plogue are at the NAMM show right now so I don't want to bother them too much. Once they get back, I'll track down the problem and if necessary, fix the problem in an update or new release. In the meantime, V.I works very well. One of my friends has Nuendo and told me this morning that this new version works perfectly with it.

Regards,
Steve.

[f@chance]

Steve,

I installed the VI version 1.1 but to my surprise it shows as 0.9 in the left corner. Is that a result of the long hours you spent slaving over this thing in our behalf? :)

Also I tried to load the VI.fxb again but the some parameters could not be loaded still shows up.

Any help on the first item as long as I am using 1.1 I don't mind what it displays as I am about to do a Stargate Atlantis conversion.

Thanks

[ursamtl]

Hmmm, sounds like you still have v0.9 sitting on your hard drive and your VST host is finding it instead of v1.1. Double check where your host program looks for VSTs. If that doesn't work, do a search on your hard drive for vi.dll. There should only be one, and it should be dated January 22. Also, if you tried loading VI.fxb in version 0.9 then you'll definitely get the error message.

Regards,
Steve.

[f@chance]

I changed the Plugin Path in the Preferences for PL and 1.1 came up. I noticed that the sliders for the from ambience is set to center and that the movie mode is off by default.

Movie mode I presume is the one to use when lots of dialogue appears in the video correct?

Is the change of the front ambience because of your improved algorithm and to the left redues the front ambience an to right enhances the front ambience?

In the previous versions I had set the Front Ambience to 8, Rear ambience to 8 and the rear level to 7.

Dragging the slider for Rear Level to 7 will this reflect approxamately the same settings as before or are we talking about a totally new animal here because I also noted that limiting threshhold is gone. Since in the Front & Rear level my settings were -2.0 are these settings necessary again? I do like my Front & rear levels a bit lower in volume and rather raise the amplifier volume.

Finally I tried to LOAD the VI.FXB again but still the no parameter error occors, anything to worry about?

Thanks a lot for this excellent effort and you have a fan over here in the UK for producing such excellent audio tools.

[ursamtl]

f@chance:

Glad to hear you have the right version working now. Movie mode is intended to center dialog as much as possible yes, but it can aslo be effective with some music as well. As for the front ambience, yes, it seemed to be better to reduce the setting by default and then let those who want to increase it do so on their own as the ambience level it produces is stronger than it was in previous versions. This also applies to the rear level. In v1.1, the ambience extraction routine is stronger. As for the limiting threshold in the Plogue layouts, I decided to set all levels to no compression, just limiting. That way, people who feel the need to boost levels with compression can do so. At the far right setting, the circuit is limiting peaks to just below clipping level while still allowing for maximum dynamic range.

Let me know how the Stargate conversion turns out. This new version should give an even bigger sound for it.

Strange that you're still getting the parameter error. I really have to discuss this with the Plogue gurus and see if we can track down the problem. One trick I did find is that if select V.I and then right click and use Bidule's Replace command to replace it with another instance of V.I, the new instance loads in with the effects presets intact.

Finally thanks for the kind words. I enjoyed putting V.I and the related plugins together so I'm happy it's doing something for you. I'm working on a couple of other enhancements should be good as well. So there's more to come. :) For now, enjoy!

Steve.

[f@chance]

Thanks for the explanation. The trick that you are using Bidules replace, I don't quite get that.

To select V.I do you mean to select the little square box that has the audio player feeds and connects to the 5.1 converter and has the label V.I.?

If I then right click and use Bidule's Replace command to replace it with another VST - Steve Thomson - VI. The little square part changes into V.I_1 and the red part just disappears.

Sorry for being so dense but I know how twiddle knobs and move sliders but Bidule is a foreign world otherwise.

Thanks for your quick answers and help.

EDIT:
I think I got it once the red thingy dissapears if I double click on the small square V.I_1 it reappears but when I do another load of the VI.FXB the parameter errors message reappears.

Sorry No Output
Just tried it and did not get any output from the new version. I'll see what I can do and check back later.

[ursamtl]

For the replace routine. You shouldn't have to load the VI.fxb file afterwards. If the menu in the top left of the red V.I window says "Starting Point" then you already have the presets.

For the no output problem, did you add an output device in place of the File Recorder or in addition to it? If not, go back and read the guide and also the thread on using V.I with Plogue Bidule.

[f@chance]

Thanks for your help and I need your assistance here. I did not add any devices.

I just temporarily placed the default Sound driver output to monitor where the sound stops. I get output ot of the VI module. But I get no sound out of the 5.1 module.

I used the windows installer and it created the default directory:
c:\Program Files\ V.I Suite and in the directory it placed the 4 DLLs VI, SLSR, FLFR, CLFE.

It placed the the three layouts into the default directory:
C:\program files\plogue\bidules\layout

I changed under preferences the VST Plugin path from
c:\program files\plogue\bidule\VSTPlugins
to
c:\program files\v.i suite
I started PB and it opened the V.I. with the parameter error message. The 5.1 module had ONLY the 4 level sliders.
In this configuration I got no sound out of the 5.1 module.

I copied the 4 DLLs from the V.I Suite directory to the c:\program files\plogue\bidule\VSTPlugins directory and changed the VST plugin path to this directory. This time the 5.1 module has the 4 level sliders but also the 4 Threshhold sliders. In this configuration sound comes out of the 5.1 module.

Please tell me which way is the correct way to take advantage of your new algorithm. I am sure it is just a matter of having the correct path and DLLs in the right place. Hope this makes enough sense for you to give me some advise and for you to get an idea of my configuration.

Thanks

[ursamtl]

Yes, that's how it works. I think what happened was that when you changed the VSt directory to point to v1.1, you weren't getting the dither or classic limiter plugins. Once you got all your VST plugins in the same directory, everything worked.

[Jenri]

Hello, and many thanks, ursamtl:
This it about the message "Some parameters are not loaded".
If you say "Get the button LOAD and Charge the *.fxb parameters..." I can't to find this parameters. Only Windows open the dialog box to search the parameters, but I can to find.
Some little help from you... if it possible...

Thanks in advance.

My opinion over the guide:

- Fastttttttttttttttttttttttttt!
- Very customizableeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, thanks God -and you-.
- Stronger sound.
- Strong channels sepparation.

A question -off topic- How is that EOH don't coming here to make their critics about? IMHO, the guide and the method is compact: Only we can make is to experiment and go, and go to making subtles upcomings...

Thanks again por your efforts, knowledge and solidarity.

Pepe.:thanks:

[f@chance]

@Jenri

Find the little rectangular box on the back ground of PB with the name V.I. It has two leads going in and 6 coming out. click on it and somtimes you have to wait until it turns orange. THEN right click on it and you will get the pop-up menu with the REPLACE menu item. Click on Replace, click on VST, click on Steve Thomson, click on V.I

Then wait again and you will see the name changes from V.I to V.I_1 or V.I_2 depending on how many times you have done this process.

On the top left corner of the RED V.I. box you should see the entry "Starting Point". Now you are set to go.

@Steve
Thanks again for your help and after work I will be off to do SGA. Run a few different settings, burn to DVD sit in the sweet spot and evaluate it until I am happy with my custom settings. I will let you know what my results are.

From our previous conversations, you know I do almost 99% TV episodes which is often 75% dialogue. Am I correct that the previous default settings that you had for the Center & LFE threshhold sliders was 0.85 with rest being 1.0?

Thanks again for your hard work and I am looking forward to follow along with your future developings.

[ursamtl]

Hello, and many thanks, ursamtl:
This it about the message "Some parameters are not loaded".
If you say "Get the button LOAD and Charge the *.fxb parameters..." I can't to find this parameters. Only Windows open the dialog box to search the parameters, but I can to find.
Some little help from you... if it possible...

Hi Jenri,

If you installed the V.I support files using the installation program, you should be able to find the fxb files in a subdirectory of your Program Files directory called V.I Suite. This depends on your specific computer, but for example, if your Program Files directory is on your C drive, then it should be "C:\Program Files\V.I Suite" by default. You can always do as f@chance suggested and right click on the V.I object in bidule and replace it with a new instance of V.I. The default presets should appear then.

Thanks for the positive feedback about the new version and the guide. It's great to know people find it all useful. There's more to come!

Regards,
Steve.

[f@chance]

Steve do you remember what our default settings were for the Threshhold slider? I thought it was 0.85 for LFE & Centre and 1.0 for the rest. I want to start from what I know produced a pleasing track. I thought I had written it down but I wrote all the other setings except the threshhold ones.

Thanks and I thank you for the more to come bit :)

[ursamtl]

Yes, they were at 0.85 although this should make very little difference in the output of these two. Once you move the sliders to the left of about 0.75, you start noticing a more significant boost.

[Jenri]

Both @ursamtl (Steve) and f@chance:

- Thanks many for the explanations.
- I use the Plogue-0.85 and once the new instance of VI was introduced, I save the patch as default and the message not more appears.

From the times of early ambisonics-methods, I like too much Plogue's application. But more, the people like yours, wich work for the others without obtain nothing to exchange -only our respect and recognition-.

Like says the YES group you're part of ..."ALL GOOD PEOPLE".

See you soon...

Pepe.:thanks:

[arnie.d]

This program is so cool!
fLfR, CLFE and sLsR work very well in sony sound forge.
Thanks for this great software!

[ursamtl]

This program is so cool!
fLfR, CLFE and sLsR work very well in sony sound forge.
Thanks for this great software!

Arnie,

Thanks for the info and the kind words! I haven't worked with SF since I played with v4 where I used to work. How is it now that Sony took it over?

[arnie.d]

I haven't worked with SF since I played with v4 where I used to work. How is it now that Sony took it over?
I didn't know SF was taken over by sony. I've only seen SF 7 and 8 (both sony).

[arnie.d]

I was wondering, does SF use/need the "classic master limiter" and "mda dither" dlls when using the sLsR, fLfR and CLFE plugins/dlls? Would it be enough to keep the sLsR, fLfR and CLFE dlls put them in a plugin folder and link SF to the folder? I know SF sees them all as seperate plugins so I guess mda dither and classic master limiter are not used when I use the sLsR or other plugins...

[ursamtl]

No, you'd have to add them or do limiting and/or dithering in SF using it's own plugins or settings.

SF was originally developed by a company called Sonic Foundry, but I believe Sony purchased their audio software a couple of years ago.

[arnie.d]

I'm a bit confused now... (not sure which question you're answering). Do I need the "classic master limiter" and "mda dither" dlls or do the sLsR, fLfR and CLFE dlls function without them?

[ursamtl]

Yes, they certainly function just fine without them. You should always apply some kind of limiting to the outputs to ensure that your resulting files don't peak above the clipping level (0dB). Although your source stereo file might not do so, the process of extracting ambience can sometimes result in peaks above 0db because certain sounds may no longer be combined with others that mask them by cancelling them out (this goes back to all those high-school physics lessons). As for dithering, you only need that if you need your final files to be in 16-bit format. Some explanations of this are found in the other V.I guide.

[f@chance]

Well Steve, I am going to be honest. I was very sceptical when version 1.1 with new settings and methode came out, because v. 0.9 did an excellent job. Must be because I have lived for almost 10 years now in the UK and they religiously go by the phrase, if it was good enough for my Grandfather it is good enough for me.

But I was blown away after my first two Stargate Atlantis encodes. Original soundtrack was DD 2.0 converted with besweet to WAV file and THEN, and THEN the magic of V.I. using all your default settings with just the change in the Center Threshold from 1.0 to 0.8 and the LFE threshold from 1.0 to 0.75. Plus a normalizing of the LFE using -16db Peak settings.

Burnt the DVD set in the swet spot and it was fantastic, you have definitely improved on it. In one scene the ceiling caved in and you could tell the surround effect from the left to right rear as the rafters fell. I was just gob smacked (UK speak for speechless).

Well, if you have other things in store for the future all I can say bring it on.

Many, Many thanks this went much, much easier then I ever anticipated and your settings are spot on.

[aboland17]

Hi Steve,

Firstly, let me say what an incredibly useful utility you have produced - many thanks for all the hard work involved in its development. Secondly, I have just tested version 1.1 of V.I (using bidule v0.9) and have noticed that moving the width correction slider either left or right seems to make no difference to the output sound. So I went back to versions 0.5, 0.9 and 1.0 and found that the slider works on each of these earlier V.I releases.

As you said in the release notes for version 1.1, there is certainly more ambience in the fronts (with the slider all the way to the right) and the rears are definitely at a higher level now. Hope I haven't caused too many problems. Keep up the fantastic work mate!

Kind regards,
Andrew.

:thanks:

[ursamtl]

Thanks for the feedback, Andrew. I'll look into the width correction settings. As I mentioned when I released 1.1, there are literally several hundred connections inside of V.I so disconnections do happen.

Thanks for the encouragement.
Steve.

[daphy]

again: fine work http://smilies.neo101.nl/smilies/kidding.gif (http://www.maxthon.com/)

Thank a 1000x

[f@chance]

@Steve,

I almost forgot after using the V.I. installer I received a dialogue when starting PB that there are duplicate "mdaX" plugins. I traced it back to the plugin mda Combo & mda Shephard. Reading the properties of the DLLs it seems from those entries that they are different. Does V.I. use these plugins?

Thanks for your help.
Hans

[ursamtl]

@Steve,

I almost forgot after using the V.I. installer I received a dialogue when starting PB that there are duplicate "mdaX" plugins. I traced it back to the plugin mda Combo & mda Shephard. Reading the properties of the DLLs it seems from those entries that they are different. Does V.I. use these plugins?

Thanks for your help.
Hans

Hi Hans,

No V.I doesn't use either of these plugins. They come as part of the mda suite of plugins. By definition, all VST plugins must have a unique 4-character ID coded into them. There must be some conflict between two of the mda plugins. I thought perhaps it might have been a conflict with the id I used for V.I but I tried a different one and still got the same message so it must be something else not related to the V.I plugin.

[daphy]

I once noticed this eror, too but meanwhileis gone -> does this mean that some of thoses mda plugins are active anymore? :confused:

[ursamtl]

I haven't used all the mda plugins, but any I did use worked fine.

[f@chance]

This it what it says from the properties of the DLL

File Name: mda Combo.dll
Company: maxim digital audio
Internal Name: mdaX
Product Name: Amp & Speaker Simulator


File Name: mda Shepard.dll
Company: maxim digital audio
Internal Name: mdaX
Product Name: Shepard (Risset) Tone Generator

Which of these would you say I should keep in the plug in directory while the other one goes into the back-up?

Thanks

[ursamtl]

Well Hans this would depend on your needs. Do you need an amp & speaker simulator (simulating the effects of an electric guitar amp and speaker combo) or do you need a tone generator? Or perhaps you need neither.

[f@chance]

Well looks like the combo if anything at all. Definetly not in need of a tone generator. Thanks for the help and I wish you the best with the further development.

On a side note TMN (The Movie Network) is airing Stargate Atlantis and the glorious HDTV Transport Stream (4+ Gig per episode) is available, but it has DD 2.0 sound, thus my great interest in V.I. TMN broadcasts without a logo the closest one can get to studio quality video, for sound I come here :)

Thanks
Hans

[Jenri]

Hello, Ursamtl:
I ask you some questions about the conversions with V.I. Suite, if you please,

01. In the "using Plogue"... I can read "dithering techniques", and I ask you: The WaveLab's command UV22 HR from Apogee does not work very well than the included techniques on the V.I. Suite? If this is true, how can I to procced in order to not includes the internal dithering of V.I. techniques in the final file(files)?

02. Newbie doubt: When I look the blue/orange module -in Plogue Bidule- named Audio File Recorder, I can view six squares above, corresponding to the six channels of the surround mix. The ask -I Know, of nebwie- is: What's the real name of every of these blue square channels?:helpful:

Thanks a lot,
Pepe.;)

[Jenri]

Hello, Ursamtl:

Good feedback. I've applied the defaults values except in the final output, logically: I've choose the option of six waves mono directly from the Audio File Recorder, and also, 16 bits.
The results are impressive. Many instruments seems to me appears like an enchantment. And you must say that: I don't have 5.1 speakers, only two magnificents MAGNEPLANAR'S SMGA, but SOMEBODY CAN TO TASTE THE DIFFERENCE.
Only a doubt: Both the rears retains a little portion of the vocalists voices, perfectly audibiles when I test the SL/SR channels on the SondForge. I think that is normal from the point of view of the new dimension of soundstage (360 degrees), but there's a "something" stranges voices sounds. There's some way to eliminate these sounds or -like I think- is better to let there?:thanks:

Thanks so many in advance and GREAT SOUND IN THIS SYSTEM!!!!!!
Pepe.:)