New Tool: DoCCE4U

[BBWoof]

The problem with the Win2K registry not being read should be fixed in the latest version.

The two are already somewhat integrated. DIF4U can create a CCEData.txt file which can be loaded into DoCCE4U and will automatically set up the jobs for a dvd rip.

I think the future integration process will be, rip the entire disk with DIF4U, use ReAuthorist to determine the bitrates for extras and main movie VTSs and sent that info to DoCCE4U. On completion of the encodes, ReAuthorist will create a .scp file which can be imported into Scenarist for quick reauthoring.

BBWoof

The latest version of DoCCE4U is available at http://www.padme.co.uk/software/DoCCE4U.1.0.0.3.exe

[ShaneZ]

well, i just got the new version and checked it out. thanks for getting that reg problem fixed. now everything works fine with my win2k machine.

keep up the good work ;)

[ShaneZ]

well, tonite i finally got to sit down and really use DoCCE4U and i have to say that it makes encoding hella easier.

I did run into one problem installing a fresh copy of the newest version. it seems to have hard-coded the location of cce at

C:\PROGRAM FILES\NEW TECHNOLOGY\CINEMA CRAFT ENCODER SP\CCTSP.EXE

or something very similiar and it would not allow me to change the executable directory when i was in File->Settings. i could click on browse, but nothing would happen. On the other hand, on my main encoding machine, with a previous version installed had no problems with it what so ever.

also, an option to set the filename of the executable would be nice so some of us don't have to go copying or renaming files if our encoder is something other than cctsp.exe.

last but not least, when i try to import a file list from a text file it crashes on me. are there some control codes or something its looking for and i am not passing it causing it to choke?

so far, those are my only complaints. your front-end saves a lot of time and makes it a lot easier to do batches of files without having to worry about editing lots of ecl files.

:)

[BBWoof]

I put the path to the exe to the default install location, but figured that it could be changed as necessary. This may be another issue with the registry in win2K not liking the program. When you click the browse button, does it come up with a file open dialog?

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

If there is anyone out there that's running 95/98, I'd really appreciate a test in those OS's.

BBWoof

[ShaneZ]

Originally posted by BBWoof
I put the path to the exe to the default install location, but figured that it could be changed as necessary. This may be another issue with the registry in win2K not liking the program. When you click the browse button, does it come up with a file open dialog?

BBWoof

no, like i said, when i hit browse it didn't pop up the open file dialog. its not a complaint actually, i work around most problems ;) the way i look at it, if people are at a level they can use the software, they should be able to fix their own problems if they are obvious. that's just me ;)

other than some minor issues, you're software works great. i had it going on two huge batches of files on two different machines just to test it out and it seems to have ran with no probs on both.

thanks for a good tool

=)

[JOJOLINO]

If I klick the browse button there come the message "Out of memory"

OS is XP without service pack 1

[BBWoof]

Version 1.0.0.4 has just been released. You can get it on http://docce4u.panthersden.com it should fixt the directory browsing problem.

BBWoof

[matt-o]

FYI
I just tried to check it out on WIN98 installed 1.0.0.4 and got the same error message as 1.0.0.3 when installing Registry editor complains Can not import c:\.... default templates.reg: the specified file is not a registry script. you can only import registry files.

[BBWoof]

I can have that problem fixed in the next version. Right now I import a registry snippet into the registry. Obviously it's not compatible with the win95/98 registry. I'll hard code it into the installation program or the program itself.

BBWoof

[SVCD4Me]

First and foremost, BBWoof, excellent tool!!

My question is, would there be any advantage to doing a 1 Pass VBR with CCE creating a VAF as opposed to a 2 Pass VBR?

If a 2 Pass VBR is the same as a 1 Pass VBR w/VAF creation, then I guess it doesn't matter.

If creating a VAF in CCE is better, can you add that option?

I'm asking this because normally I use DVD2SVCD to re-encode my DVD video (if needed) before re-authoring and I always use 1 Pass VBR and check the "Create VAF" option on the Encoder tab. I just figured out how to re-encode my SVCD MPG's for DVD and started using the DVD2AVI/CCE method. I don't see the "create VAF" option in CCE when just using DVD2AVI/CCE, so I was wondering... Any idea?

Thanks again.

/edit/
Well it seems that today it is doing a VAF file first. Perhaps there was something wrong because I added 4 jobs yesterday and the first 1 started with just the MPV on a 2 pass VBR. Both the 1st and 2nd one apparently failed because 3 and 4 have perfect videos along with a VAF and 1 and 2 don't have anything in the directory. I just restarted the first 2 and all seems well as it is on the VAF now.
Is there a log file anywhere? I can't seem to copy the log info.
/edit/

jb

[dgwak]

Also, CCdata DoitFast4U creates makes all CCE operations 5 passes. I think that is an overkill for especially extras. Is there any option in DoCCE to change that other than one by one?

In addition, how does DoCCE know whether or not the film is progressive, linear, or zigzag? Do they matter at all?

Thanks for your great work.

[ryangs]

One small bug I encountered... when browsing for the source file, it doesn't show .avi's, only .avs files. I have to type in *.avi and hit enter to get it to show AVIs.

Otherwise, awesome program. :D

[SVCD4Me]

@ryangs-

I believe this program was created to help people re-encode DVD's, Not avi's. The majority use DVD2AVI to do this, which creates AVS files not AVI.

I would hardly call that a bug. Maybe the thoughtful creator of this do-it-for-you should call it "docce4u if it uses avs files"...

[ryangs]

Originally posted by SVCD4Me
@ryangs-

I believe this program was created to help people re-encode DVD's, Not avi's. The majority use DVD2AVI to do this, which creates AVS files not AVI.

I would hardly call that a bug. Maybe the thoughtful creator of this do-it-for-you should call it "docce4u if it uses avs files"...

:confused:

http://mail.chartermi.net/~ryangs/docce4u1.jpg
Look! It says it's supposed to be showing avi's but it isnt.

http://mail.chartermi.net/~ryangs/docce4u2.jpg
After typing in *.avi, it shows avis. It opens these avis and encodes them without problem.

Now is this not a normal behavior or am I missing something here?

[SVCD4Me]

Well since you put it that way...

My apologies. I should have checked the "specs" before replying.

[BBWoof]

But I've been busy with my nose to the keyboard creating a new release, 1.0.0.5 is out and can be found here http://docce4u.panthersden.com :cool:

There are a number of things that have been fixed. I've moved the pulldown functions into a c++ class and included it in the main apps code. There is no longer a need to run a secondary program. I've readded a minimize button, which instead of minimizing to a button on the taskbar, goes instead to a notification icon. RoBa encoding has been moved back to a Multipass vbr instead of 1Pass then Multipass (the reason is in the CCE manual, I swear ).

@ryangs

Thanks for pointing out the problem (bug) :) with the open file dialog. I'll make sure that gets fixed in the next version. As far as I understand, if you're source is an avs file that's been decombed, then it's progressive, and I don't see why anyone would let CCE operate on the interlaced source when decomb does a better job. And from what I've read here in these forums, I believe that the scanning order should always be set to zig zag. (If I'm wrong on any of my assumptions, please let me know, I take any and all assumption corrections I can get!)

@dgwak

That's a setting that needs to be added to DoItFast4U. Right now I open the CCEData.txt file and modify in a text editor. We're still working on the integration of the two programs, and the CCEData.txt file will soon be expanded to include more settings.

@SVCD4Me

I've switched the program back to doing a Multipass vbr for the RoBa method. In the CCE manual, it states that during a multipass vbr the first pass is run as either a CBR or 1Pass vbr to check the complexity of the source. So as I see it, there is no reason for a 1Pass then multipass. Also, I've modified the program so that when in RoBa mode, it deletes any existing vaf file so that it will be recreated.

Next version plans:

I'll be adding a quality setting and changing the name of quality to qfactor which is what it realy is.

Future versions:

A template editor. The ability to add around 35 custom templates.

Thanks to everyone who is trying out the program. It is nice to write something that people actually use.

[ryangs]

Originally posted by BBWoof
But I've been busy with my nose to the keyboard creating a new release, 1.0.0.5 is out and can be found here http://docce4u.panthersden.com/download/DoCCE4U.1.0.0.5.zip :cool:

Cool indeed.

Just curious, does the program activate the DVD-compliant option in CCE? I'm making MPEG2 files to put onto DVD and I think my DVD authoring tool, DVD Workshop, may be reencoding the video because it doesn't recognize it as compliant.

[BBWoof]

Just curious, does the program activate the DVD-compliant option in CCE? I'm making MPEG2 files to put onto DVD and I think my DVD authoring tool, DVD Workshop, may be reencoding the video because it doesn't recognize it as compliant.

As I understand it, to be DVD Compliant, the mpeg2 stream needs to be marked with a 9800KBits/s bitrate. If I do this in DoCCE4U, audio tracks won't import properly in scenarist if there are multiple or large audio tracks.

BBWoof

[ryangs]

Originally posted by BBWoof
As I understand it, to be DVD Compliant, the mpeg2 stream needs to be marked with a 9800KBits/s bitrate. If I do this in DoCCE4U, audio tracks won't import properly in scenarist if there are multiple or large audio tracks.

So... maybe you could make this a selectable option for those of us not using Scenarist? ;)

[ryangs]

I had a few other ideas why DVD workshop might not recognize it as compliant (in other words, it's probably not DoCCE4u or CCE's fault):

1) It's 24 fps (film) instead of 29.97 fps (NTSC)

2) According to DVD workshop's file properties screen, it's Field B instead of Field A (an m2v file I created with the Adobe MPEG Encoder is field A and is recognized as compliant by DVD Workshop)

Does this sound reasonable? Maybe it's time to upgrade from DVD Workshop.

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by ryangs
[B]1) It's 24 fps (film) instead of 29.97 fps (NTSC)


This could definitely be a problem. Is it actually 24fps, or is it 23.976? You should be able to run pulldown on it to get it back up to 29.97


2) According to DVD workshop's file properties screen, it's Field B instead of Field A (an m2v file I created with the Adobe MPEG Encoder is field A and is recognized as compliant by DVD Workshop)


Not really sure what Field A and Field B mean unless thats the Top Field First setting.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by ryangs
So... maybe you could make this a selectable option for those of us not using Scenarist? ;)

Eventually you should will be able to modify everything in the templates and even create more.

BBWoof

[Eyes`Only]

Just curious, does the program activate the DVD-compliant option in CCE? I'm making MPEG2 files to put onto DVD and I think my DVD authoring tool, DVD Workshop, may be reencoding the video because it doesn't recognize it as compliant.

To put it bluntly: AS A PRECAUTION, NEVER ENABLE THAT CHECKBOX!

Why you may ask? Because that checkbox forces the max video bitrate to 9800, overriding your VBR max bitrate setting. Documented in the CCE Manual page 29-30:

If DVD complient is selected, instantaneous
bitrate in GOP units is controlled to be a maximum of 9.8 Mbps. During VBR operation, 9.8 Mbps is always written to the sequence
header regardless the specified maximum bitrate. 9.8 Mbps is
the maximum bitrate allowed under the DVD standard. 9.8 Mbps is
used here because in the case of the VBV model in VBR, bit allocation
planning by the encoder becomes more flexible as the maximum bitrate
becomes higher, therefore higher image quality can be achieved.

Now note, you'll get away with checking that checkbox if you only use one audio stream, since the specs of DVD say that the total bitrate of your video/audio/subs can be 1.08.

"DVD-Video can sustain transfer rates of 10.08 Mbps, maximum, for video and audio together. However, the DVD Specification limits the maximum bit rate for MPEG-2 video to 9.80 Mbps or less."--Scenarist Manual (this is not a Scenarist spec, this is a quote of the Global DVD Specs.)

Since your DVD Video will be 9800, and your audio stream will probably be 448 max (DD5.1 usually is) the total bitrate of your VTS will be around 10248, and the subs use a small amount of bitrate too, which is well within the limits. However if you use ANY quality DVD authoring app (Maestro, Scenarist, etc) that allows more than one audio stream, you're going to possibly see your bitrate go over the max allowed (do the math), and your authoring app will balk and refuse to compile.

Anyways, the bottom line is that there's really only 2 things 'DVD Compliance' does. Make sure your video is the correct resolution (not a problem since you ripped it directly off the DVD!) and override your max bitrate setting. Don't use it. If you really want your max bitrate to be 9800 (can't see why you would, normal retail DVDs rarely are encoded above 7000!) just set it manually and leave DVD Compliant unchecked.

[ryangs]

Originally posted by BBWoof
Is it actually 24fps, or is it 23.976? You should be able to run pulldown on it to get it back up to 29.97

It's actually 23.976. I really want to leave it as film instead of converting it back to NTSC again. Perhaps I need to change it to 24 exactly? (As you can tell, I'm new to this!)

Also, thanks for the tip, Eyes`Only!

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by ryangs
It's actually 23.976. I really want to leave it as film instead of converting it back to NTSC again. Perhaps I need to change it to 24 exactly? (As you can tell, I'm new to this!)

I'm curious why you would want to leave it at 24 fps?

BBWoof

[ryangs]

Originally posted by BBWoof
I'm curious why you would want to leave it at 24 fps?

I must be missing an important concept here. It's film material, and I want to leave it progressive scan, so shouldn't I leave it 24fps? Isn't this how a commercial DVD would do it, and isn't this better for compressability?

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by ryangs
I must be missing an important concept here. It's film material, and I want to leave it progressive scan, so shouldn't I leave it 24fps? Isn't this how a commercial DVD would do it, and isn't this better for compressability?

No, because of the way that televisions work, professional dvds are telecined to 29.97 fps. If you've encoded it, then you've already compressed it. All the pulldown process does is set some flags within the mpeg2 stream to add another frame by interlacing two frames.

BBWoof

[ryangs]

Originally posted by BBWoof
No, because of the way that televisions work, professional dvds are telecined to 29.97 fps. If you've encoded it, then you've already compressed it. All the pulldown process does is set some flags within the mpeg2 stream to add another frame by interlacing two frames.

BBWoof

D'oh! I see. It just sets some flags to have the MPEG2 decoder do the pulldown. Got it. Thanks!

[Mikel]

After using the new version of DoitFast4U, I made up my mind to try DoCCE4U.
For some reason it does not seem to work at for me.
I use version 2.5 of CCE.

What happens is that after i want to start the Job, the open ECL window appears and the process stops.
I can manually select the ECL file (which should happen automatically right?) and then encoding starts.
After encoding, the next file is not started and DoCCE4U just hangs with 100% of CPU-usage.

Am I doing something wrong here?

Cheers

Mikel

[BBWoof]

I think I need to rewrite how the program locates the load ecl window. I have an idea how to fix it and it'll be in the next release.

[Mikel]

Great BBWoof

I am looking forward to it.

Cheers

Mikel

[d4g]

hi ive been doing the dof4u process and docce tooo


welll in the docce process it does all the pgcs ok but when it gets to the vob one cce encoding freezes does anyone know why on my other machine it encodes fine.......but havent tried the vobid version but i think it shouldnt matter its just the file name has been change to vo2 not po2

does anyone know why it freezes...

[d4g]

docce4u doesnt read the ccedata.txt file properly....

it makes all encodes at 4.3 even if the movie is 16.9


can u look into this and also it has some speed issues as welll cce....its not as fast as when u run cce on its own with the same setting...i get on my 1800 xp rig 10.30 when iu run it on stand alone its runs 1200 and higher.....

and aslo as for my last post it does the pgc encoding withpout freezing but when i use vobid stripping cce encoding freezes im trying to figure out why....
by the way these programs rock !!!!!

Denis T

[Eyes`Only]

I've noticed this too.. and I've told BBWoof about it, but more people that are seeing the same thing can't hurt. :)

It's still a great program, but for now I'd suggest not using the 'start docce4u' feature of doitfast4u, just set it to 'open docce4u' so you can adjust the aspect ratios automatically.

Oh and there's a 'cce timer interval' feature in the settings that tells docce4u how long to wait before checking the cce window. I've found that if I put it high enough (I put mine on 20 seconds currently, it's probably overkill but what the heck!) then the CCE speed increases a bit. It still never reaches the speed it should though, but BBWoof is looking into that.

[d4g]

yes it is a great program you figured out anything but the freezing

[fourtyfour]

servus...

Just want to download DoCCE4U.

But Your page showas only "Woof Software" and the 1.0.0.5 isn´tavailable for download.

Only version I can download is 1.0.0.3.

[Doom9]

www.doom9.org might just have what you're looking for.. try searching the news or the full software page ;)

[fourtyfour]

servus...

Oh, I only visit doom9.de for news in this case.
And it linked to bbwoof´s homepage.

I have the tool now, thanks doom9. ;)

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by d4g
welll in the docce process it does all the pgcs ok but when it gets to the vob one cce encoding freezes does anyone know why on my other machine it encodes fine.......but havent tried the vobid version but i think it shouldnt matter its just the file name has been change to vo2 not po2

does anyone know why it freezes...

If I understand right, it's freezing when it does this after being ripped by VobID?

It doesn't seem to me like there should be a difference.

BBWoof

[BBWoof]

Originally posted by d4g
docce4u doesnt read the ccedata.txt file properly....

it makes all encodes at 4.3 even if the movie is 16.9


can u look into this and also it has some speed issues as welll cce....its not as fast as when u run cce on its own with the same setting...i get on my 1800 xp rig 10.30 when iu run it on stand alone its runs 1200 and higher.....


That seems to be a bug with the program only when you load the CCEData.txt file. I'm looking into what might be causing it.

BBWoof

[d4g]

i figured out the freezing problem with cce i couldnt even load the avs script in cce so its an install fault of cce but on my other rig its fine....


the onlyt bug i can see is just when the cce.txt file is laoded that it doesnt read it properly and makes all encodes at 4.3 even when its 16.9

but apart from that the program rocks i did my first movie took me a while to understand the steps but mate i call that a back up

i did training day and it was perfecto..... congrads to u and eyes for these rocking software....

!!!!!

D

[hakko504]

Originally posted by BBWoof
@ryangs

Thanks for pointing out the problem (bug) :) with the open file dialog. I'll make sure that gets fixed in the next version. As far as I understand, if you're source is an avs file that's been decombed, then it's progressive, and I don't see why anyone would let CCE operate on the interlaced source when decomb does a better job. And from what I've read here in these forums, I believe that the scanning order should always be set to zig zag. (If I'm wrong on any of my assumptions, please let me know, I take any and all assumption corrections I can get!)
When you have a nice format like MPEG-2 that can handle interlaced video properly, there is no point in destroying video data by deinterlacing it. True deinterlacing is only needed for formats like AVI that are intended for viewing on computer ONLY, whereas MPEG-2 is created for TV, which uses interlacing natively. What CCE does when you enable the interlaced option is just to encode each field separately, effectively making the video 720x288@50fps (PAL) instead of 720x576@25fps. BUT a lot of PAL videos are not interlaced, even though it looks that way. Instead they have fields shifted 1 step, from the correct 1t1b 2t2b 3t3b 4t4b ... sequence to 1t2b 2t3b 3t4b 4t5b ... This can be corrected with telecide(guide=2,post=false) and that is the only deinterlacing that should be applied to PAL material when doing MPEG-2. Then there is a lot of horrible NTSC2PAL conversions with blended fields and up to 4 ghost images in every frame, but those are also impossible to do anything about. Oh, and true interlaced material cannot be processed with most AviSynth filters, as they assume progressive input. Horizontal resizing is OK though.

There have been some fuss in the AviSynth forum about v2.5x not handling interlaced video quite correctly, so at the moment you should recommend the use of v2.08 for any interlaced video.

[BBWoof]

Help me out here. :) My brain works slowly. I'm doing a major revision and if PAL folkes want me to add a control to enable the interlace, I'm happy to do that.

BBWoof

[Eyes`Only]

hakko,

So you're saying DoItFast4U would get better output by using telecide(guide=2,post=false) for PAL deinterlacing instead of FieldDeinterlace()? The Decomb readme states, "Do not use Telecide on streams that do not contain telecined progressive frames, such as pure interlaced video."

[hakko504]

No, I'm saying a lot of progressive PAL material looks interlaced, but isn't and in those cases you should use Telecide(guide=2,post=false). In all other PAL cases NOTHING should be done at all. True interlaced material should be left that way, and encoded in CCE as interlaced.

If you have a FTP I can send you a few clips to show you what I mean.

[Eyes`Only]

No, I don't have an FTP, unfortunately, and my website takes all the available space I'm allotted so I can't use that.

From what I've heard/seen, PAL extras are usually interlaced though. And many seasoned transcoders tell me that keeping those extras interlaced looks a lot worse than converting them to progressive at the same bitrate. Apparently interlaced video takes a higher bitrate to achieve quality and of course, we do our extras at 1750-2000 usually.

[hakko504]

Now, I can understand your last comment, that interlaced video requires a little higher bitrate to achieve same quality. That's really quite obvious as the motion search algo's don't have the same areas to search through, and the blocks are larger (not in muber of pixels, but area covered by those pixels).
But for a PAL feature that's interlaced (like BlackAdder) I'm quite certain that the loss in quality from deinterlacing is much larger that the loss of quality from encoding as two fields instead of one frame. Deinterlacing is just a trick for making video more fluent on the computerscreen and shouldn't be used for TV.
Extras is another thing though, here all tricks to save space are valid as they are much less important than the main feature.
To make this work I think you should make deinterlacing optional, even on PAL sources.
And we shouldn't forget that there is a lot of material shot on progressive that has been mastered as interlaced, with incorrect fielding (like I described in my last post) where a frame in the DVD is constructed from two nearby fields of the original FILM (like swedish editions of Life Of Brian, E.T. and the Spiderman release mentioned in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49467). And it is these who should be treated with Telecide(guide=2,post=false)

[Eyes`Only]

To make this work I think you should make deinterlacing optional, even on PAL sources.

I take it you've never actually used my program, because that's a typical comment from some of the buddies I talk with that don't actually use DoItFast4U!, ie. suggesting things that already exist. :D

[hakko504]

No, you're right, I've been following the conversations here over the last few days, and I intend to start testing it ASAP. Sorry, I did read the docs, but I must have missed that and the conversation here did not indicate that this was the case. Actually I was waiting for ReAuthorist to surface and thought I'd try to catch up with the discussions here first. As it turned towards AviSynth/Decomb questions I thought I'd offer some help as I've been using those a lot over the last years. And the telecide(guide=2) seemed like news to you, but it is a very useful feature, but for some reason not very well known one.