RealVideo 9 Information Thread Discussion [Archive] - Page 2

karl_lillevold

4th January 2003, 17:03

For some reason it sounds like the automatic setting of permissions when you have agreed to a license is not working for your username.

If you initially signed up a while back, I would suggest you sign up again with a different name, and try again. If this does not work, please send me a pm with your username and I will forward the problem or You can also sign on to the Helix IRC channel and ask there. Most of the time there is someone there who can help, at least during west coast working hours.

Wilbert

4th January 2003, 17:53

Thanks! It's working now after using a different name.

IBJr

5th January 2003, 19:01

Karl, do you have any suggestions for encoding w/ RV9 for playback on Plam's Tungsten T? I would expermement but the player isn’t released yet.

I’ve been on many of the handheld sites defending real, but the Palm users are upset the player didn’t ship in 2002 and anachronistically complaining about RealPlayer 8. If you can reply, hopefully they will experiment w/ Real and see it isn't the scourge of the earth.

My apologies to the moderators, I know the form isn’t for this, but w/o the last paragraph I would be flamed. (well i may be anyway)

Ibjr

karl_lillevold

6th January 2003, 03:23

Oh, I wish I had one of those.

I am afraid the first version of the tungsten player will be audio only. It will be very different from any RealPlayer 8. Why it takes so long - I am not sure, but it's not only development at RealNetworks. There's been bug fixes even in PalmOS to get it to work right.

karl_lillevold

8th January 2003, 21:23

I just added this to the first info post:

Supported input formats to producer
It may not be well known, but on Windows, producer can transcode any format you can play back with a DirectShow player (like Media Player Classic). This means you can directly encode .MPG, .WMV, .ASF, .D2V, .AC3, .AVI (uncompressed, compressed, XviD, DivX), .AVS (of course), and even .VOB files, as long as you have the DirectShow filters installed such that the files are playable in your DS media player of choice.

Of course, be aware that if your source has low enough bitrate to have compression artifacts, these are faithfully re-compressed. For instance, I transcoded a certain 1280x720p HDTV demo, which has plenty of blockiness and ringing problems, especially during scene transitions, all of it which was reproduced on playback of the RV9 clip:(

Dark-Cracker

12th January 2003, 14:12

hi,

does rv9 with smil launcher can read .rmvb and .ac3 or .ogg or .aac ?

karl_lillevold

12th January 2003, 22:30

With smil you can mix any format that can be played with RealOne. So currently, you can mix RV9 and WAV. I tried to create a WAV file containing AC3 using headac3he, and mplayerc/AC3Filter showed that the file indeed contained 5.1 AC3 channels, but sounded like random noise, so clearly my AC3-WAV creation did not work correctly.

Still, with the SMIL code at the bottom, I could play back this RV9/AC3-WAV combination in RealOne on Windows (but still sounded like random noise). I'll post an update if I can figure out the proper AC3-WAV creation method.

With regards to other formats than WAV you will need a file format plugin and renderer plugin for RealOne to be able to read them. For instance, if you try .ac3, RealOne will phone home and try to find a file format plugin (unsuccessfully). Such plugins should not be terribly hard to write -- perhaps a nice challenge for someone in the Helix Community? It would be nice to play back .ogg / .ac3 / .aac files in RealOne.

More challenging, but technically possible given Helix source code, one could imagine an .ogg file writer in producer, writing out RV9 + Vorbis audio, and the matching Ogg file format plugin and Vorbis audio renderer for playback in RealOne. I won't speak for what the Helix licenses say about this possibility, just that it is technically possible.

Example SMIL code:
<smil>
<head>
<layout>
<region id="VideoChannel1" left="0" top="0" height="304" width="720"/>
</layout>
</head>
<body>
<par title="audio video mixer test">
<video src = "stream2.rmvb" region="VideoChannel1"/>
<audio src = "stream2.wav"/>
</par>
</body>
</smil>

ReTroAcTive

13th January 2003, 07:16

i downloaded autorv9 and used it on a few clips. it seems to do quite well, im surprised. its much better then anything i have seen in the rv format sense they started streaming audio. ide say the rv format is almost perfected with rv9, i only say almost because you cant tune the post-processing of the player. im going to try a full movie, maybe a 2 disc so i can try that (split total file after) option.

Sirber

13th January 2003, 22:49

I did Lord of the Ring, Extended Edition on 2 CD. Quality is better than XviD. The only problem is the post-processing... a little too much.

midiguy

14th January 2003, 05:16

yeah, I wish we had control of the PP. it would be soooo sweet having an RV9 direct show codec, where you can fine tune the post-processing, use any contain you want (AVI, OGG, etc.), and any audio format you want. and last, but DEFINATELY not least, you can avoid using the dreaded real one player.

pkstomak

14th January 2003, 16:06

Hi,

I also encoded a clip from Lord Of the Rings with RV9,DivX5.02 and Xvid.I choosed a very bright and colored scene from the beginning. And...I'm impressed!...and disappointed too! On the "plus" side :The quality/size ratio is incredible and the picture is much more detailled than DivX/Xvid BUT I don't know if it's the post processing or the way the picture is encoded but there are portions of the screen that are(randomly?)blurred.And this is disturbing: you have on the same picture very detailled areas and very blurry areas.

From now on, I don't know wich one to use... DivX5.02 or RV9? Sure, RV9 looks better on a monitor, but on a TV (Sony Wega Trinitron), the difference is minimal. Is Realplayer with a manual post processing setting the answer? (AC3 support would be nice too!).
I also did some anamorphic encoding in Pal (988/420) and while the quality was a tad better, the processing power increased too (more than 40% on a XP1800).Again, on a TV, a bit useless...

karl_lillevold

14th January 2003, 16:36

Thanks for your reports! I am glad you like the quality, and we do take your comments about post-processing seriously. In some cases ringing artifacts look like actual details from the original (like texture in forest, film grain, or even rain or snow). It is not as easy as the suggested pp adjustment in the player, but tuning for high bitrates and HDTV is definitely possible, and with Helix we can give you access to improvements much quicker than before.

pkstomak

14th January 2003, 16:47

Wow!! A quality codec, with competent and kind peoples listening to what the users say... I'm gonna wake up, yeah...:D

PS: RV9 should have its own forum.

ReTroAcTive

15th January 2003, 01:31

Originally posted by midiguy
and last, but DEFINATELY not least, you can avoid using the dreaded real one player.

ive played rv9 in real player basic 8 after it downloads the codecs for it but it says it cant play rv9. but if you drag and drop the rv9 file onto the real player basic 8 after it installs the codecs it will play it, however the quality is not as good as you get with real one.
im still not sure if being able to watch rv9 files is worth the monster install, and the other things that real one does, like taking over playing dvds even after i told it not to do so on the install and that messenger thing that you cant keep from downloading new message, the best you can do is tell it to only check once or twice a month, and it pops up when your playing a game in full screen and when you go to close the messenger it minimizes your game and you lose the sound thus making you shut down the game to restart it so you can have sound.
i used real player from the beginning till the real one player. i would install the older basics to watch anything i wanted to see on the web and if the basic player wouldnt work i wouldnt watch it. with rv9 you have a chance to win me over once again but, it will all depend on the next version of your real one player.

karl_lillevold

15th January 2003, 01:40

I am sorry you had these problems with RealOne. It sounds like you tried v.1, which clearly had some issues.

RealOne v.2 as it is available now can be configured to not display these messages at all, unless you have the player open, which you probably will not have while playing a game.

Follow the instructions in the first post in this thread : go to tools->preferences->Automatic Services, disable everything. Same with the one check box in Autoupdate, just to be sure. When you have done this, the message box will open only when you have RealOne open, and then once per month (if you have set it to once per month).

With regards to taking over DVD playback, this may have happened for RealOne v.1, but this bug has been fixed in v.2. Again, following my instructions, the dialog box during install for Maintain Media Preferences should already be unchecked by default, but just make sure it is. And, you need to uncheck the box for DVD in the list of Media types.

That's all.

So I think your main complaints have been addressed, one through a bug fix, and the other through disabling the automatic services features.
In v.3, all of these will automatically be set to what most users would like, and not what RealNetworks would like :)

karl_lillevold

15th January 2003, 02:15

just to make sure you have disabled everything:

If you open Task Manager, normally, there is a 156K process running called realsched.exe (RealNetworks Scheduler). Unless you disable the options I mentioned in my previous post, this will run all the time.

With the options unchecked, this process should automatically be killed once RealOne exits.

Sirber

15th January 2003, 02:19

@karl

That's great news :)

If a VFW comes out, will we be able to ajust PP?

ReTroAcTive

15th January 2003, 02:31

RealOnePlayerV2GOLD.exe is the file i downloaded and installed but i missed the part of your message about the automatic services.
thanks man, looks like your on top of things. i still however am fighting with real player about the dvd playback thing, im hopen after i reboot it will be taken care of.
thanks Karl
i think rv is close to getting their own forum around here, or atleast i hope.

l8r, after the reboot.....
everytime i reboot it takes dvd playback over again. its not selected in media types and i go to file types under folder option and change it, but everytime i do and reboot it takes dvds back over. so when is v3 going to be out? :)

Benholio

15th January 2003, 04:38

To get rid of the damn messages do a custom install and deselect as much of the intergration BS as you can. Next find the file RNDAL.EXE and rename it and or remove any mention of it from your registry. I have done this and my player functions just like winamp. I get no annoying messages or popups and the only time Real one hits the net is on startup to access real.com.

Ben

btw, I believe that RNDAL = Real Network Dynamic Application Launcher

WorldBook

15th January 2003, 16:14

Alternatively, if you have a firewall such as Zonealarm you can disable Realplayer from accesing the internet.

ohliuv

16th January 2003, 16:29

Yesterday I did a long test capture from PAL TV at 384x288 using vfw drivers and frankly speaking I'm happy with the result.

Anyone did some extensive testing with the Helix video capture?

ReTroAcTive

16th January 2003, 21:47

i used divx to compress lost in space, then used rv9.
the divx did a good job, but sense it should have been a 2cd rip i had to drop the resolution down to 416 x 176 to get it up to 58%. very hard to compress this movie cause of the film stock they used that shows everything even if its in shadow. i was as happy with it as i could be with a 1 cd rip that should have been a 2.
however the rv9 rip i did was much better. i raised the resolution up to 576x208 because rv9 is suppose to be better at lower bit rates and i wanted to see just how it would do. it really surprised me, i was very happy with it, though it did go over 700mbs a little after it was all said and done. the picture was cleaner, and because of the high resolution, more detailed also.
so in short, i think the divx5.02 codec is the way to go right now for your movies that you want to encoded at a high bit rate or are very compressible. however, movies that are very hard to compress, or if you have a movie that need 2 cds and you would like to have it on 1, rv9 is the way to go.

Sirber

17th January 2003, 16:23

RV9 is good for high-bitrate too, with sharp and clean picture. It can also be played on low-end hardware (like a P2 with a crappy videocard).

Sirber

19th January 2003, 16:40

Hi

I don't know why but now when I open a AVI in Helix Producer, it says "Audio only" and in source propertises, "Uncompressed audio". What's the problem?

karl_lillevold

19th January 2003, 23:55

usually if producer can not read the video in an AVI file, it is because the appropriate DirectShow or VfW codec is missing. Can you play the AVI file in a media player? What is the 4cc code of the format inside the AVI file?

Sirber

20th January 2003, 13:23

I had XviD and ffdshow installed. I flushed ffdshow and the problem is gone.

kilg0r3

23rd January 2003, 22:06

Does anyone of nice doom9-like guide for dvd backup on the basis of rv9?

31 Flavas

24th January 2003, 04:12

Originally posted by kilg0r3
Does anyone of nice doom9-like guide for dvd backup on the basis of rv9? I'm confused by this, do you mean has anyone made a nice guide on how to backup using rv9?

nFury8

24th January 2003, 06:16

Looks like that's what he meant.

@kilg0r3:
Somebody posted a link to a guide using Real's Helix Producer in this thread:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=42889 (http://)

Maybe you'll find that useful.

kilg0r3

24th January 2003, 09:20

tanks guys. sorry for my crappy syntax.

Sirber

24th January 2003, 22:17

AutoRV9 is THE tool for DVD-Rip. Give it a try. :)

**

When RealOne v3 will come out? And what about post-processing?

wing1

24th January 2003, 23:34

Very nice codec and a nice player to boot. Much better then old time. The only problem is editing: Not as friendly as Vdub.

The resize function can actually be achieved using ffdshow resize function; However, rv9 has built-in flag to activate the resizing property automatically to any size: This is a nice option indeed. I do believe divx 5.02 has that functionality built-in as well in their encoder. Perhaps someday xvid dev team will have that option as well in their encoder.

Most private development GUI's for RV9 currently only support DVD->RM, which does not leave much for this AVI capture enthusiast; Notepad and batch file will have to do for now, until I break down and re-install c++ builder :D

I am very impress with the encoder quality and the playback capabilities of realone. I have major decoding issues with my old laptop (K6-2 433Mhz) when using divx/xvid. However, Realone plays back the encoded 624x432->aRS->704x480 flawlessly, and at full screen to boot. Details do tend to smear a bit but not that critical. I rather see a little smear than macroblocks.

TSO COBOL

28th January 2003, 11:13

There is another french tool (is RV9 french ? :D) that is very interesting. You can find it on www.lalternative.org, his name is x2real 0.3

It supports avi.

I think the avi supports will come in Autorv9 1.3.

@31 Flavas

We have maid french guide of Autorv9 and italian, on www.formidable.fr.st, there is an english guide for Autorv9 on http://www.eclipsedvd.firstream.net/autodub/Guide/AutoRV9.htm

If someone wants to make a traduction, it will be a pleasure to share with you. :)

@kilg0r3

There is a way for playing RV9 on mediaplayer classic of gabest (6.4.2.0)on http://vobsub.edensrising.com/ without installing Realone player and all these spyware. On my website you can find at http://www.formidable.firstream.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownload&cid=1&min=20&orderby=titleA&show=10 named "pack damrod" that only install dll necessary for playing RV9 without installing realone.

Sorry for my bad english :(

wing1

28th January 2003, 22:18

What version of xreal2 support avi? xReal2 build 3022 expected d2v project files only :(

movmasty

29th January 2003, 00:01

Originally posted by karl_lillevold
Get the source code for these now and build it yourself, all features included. For convenience, fully pre-compiled binary releases are available for Linux and Win32
i wasnt able to find those binaries.

karl_lillevold

29th January 2003, 00:08

Hi there,
After you are logged in, there's a link on the front page, upper left corner, called "Binaries". This will take you to the list of available pre-built binaries. You have to agree to one of the Helix licenses and the binary EULA to get access.

movmasty

29th January 2003, 00:29

ok, thanks, another comunity to log in....

Sirber

29th January 2003, 03:15

Hi

I've just reinstalled Windows 2000 SP3, DirectX 9, ATI Radeon 8500LE, and on realmedia clips there is green stuff moving on the overlay area. I have no problem with DivX or XviD encode.

Any idea?

[edit]

Also, with RealVideo 8, there is no such problem... strange!

[edit2]

When I use Accelerated Video + no overlay, it's ok. But, with Acc. Video and overlay, it's green. :(

I have catalyst 3.0 :'(

karl_lillevold

29th January 2003, 03:22

i am not sure, but i have seen the latest ATI drivers (catalyst 3.0) having some similar sounding problems playing back RealVideo. It goes away if I Stop and Play again, or if I change overlay type (which you unfortunately can not do). If so, this is an ATI driver problem, and I will report it through the right channels.

Rash

29th January 2003, 03:45

Karl, I have exactely the same problem and I'm using exactely the same video drivers as Sirber.

But I just don't mind not pushing the video accel bar to the right. ;) Still, it would be great if you guys or ATI solved this problem.

TSO COBOL

29th January 2003, 09:46

Originally posted by wing1
What version of xreal2 support avi? xReal2 build 3022 expected d2v project files only :(

x2real 0.3 (build 3025/release)

I have seen on Akabob website that he has create a package with RV9 dll and mediaplayer classic, I give the description

MPC 6.4.02 (feat.RV9 codec) by akab0b more
#full RealPlayer 9 replacement
#featuring latest RV9 codecs (v2.0)
#2.5 MB download only
#latest MPC release available @ http://vobsub.edensrising.com
#RealPlayer 9 available @

We are doing an english translation of autorv9 guide, it can be interesting for you. :)

31 Flavas

29th January 2003, 19:06

Originally posted by karl_lillevold
i am not sure, but i have seen the latest ATI drivers (catalyst 3.0) having some similar sounding problems playing back RealVideo. It goes away if I Stop and Play again, or if I change overlay type (which you unfortunately can not do). If so, this is an ATI driver problem, and I will report it through the right channels. I didn't know if it was just something with my computer or the drivers or RealPlayer until you posted this.

I have a similar problem, I have a radeon 9700 and am using cat 3.0 drivers. Overlay realtext subtitles won't display when used with .rmvb files, but will work with .rm files. These subtitles worked (displayed) with prior drivers though.

karl_lillevold

29th January 2003, 19:44

i don't know which other problems the catalyst 3.0 drivers might have, but they certainly don't work for regular playback where the frame buffers being displayed contain the wrong data, i.e. garbage or previous frames (unless you Stop and Play, which should not really be necessary).

I have started the process of escalating the problem, and ATI should know about it by the end of the day.

Until ATI can fix their drivers, there's not much else we can do, than to suggest you downgrade ATI drivers, and/or contact ATI. (I have verified that Catalyst 2.3 works fine). ATI's release cycle is much faster than ours. For reasons I am sure you understand, we do not want to auto-update more than absolutely necessary.

karl_lillevold

29th January 2003, 19:53

@kilg0r3:

1: I believe rmeditor (as done by AutoRV9) is the standard, and probably also the only way to split RM files.

2: turn off overlay, just like you have to do in all players using optimized video playback. This, however, makes playback more CPU intensive, and the decoder might go into CPU scalability mode, where it will introduce some shortcuts to speed up decoding, which may affect video quality. So, for both RealVideo, and other formats, you are not guaranteed to get a true representation of the actual video quality, but if you have a fast enough system, it should be pretty close.

3: ffdshow, no.

4: probably already answered (Media Player Classic)

5: not sure about this one - what is your video card and screen refresh rate?

6: again, not sure, but it could be the rate control and all those black frames. Why don't you instead 'trim' the video such that the black frames are not included in the encode?

Hope this helps.

Sirber

30th January 2003, 01:34

The Media Player Classic with RV9 codec is doing a great job for playing RMVB. It has no post-processing, which makes the video less blurry.

iwod

30th January 2003, 15:26

Originally posted by Sirber
The Media Player Classic with RV9 codec is doing a great job for playing RMVB. It has no post-processing, which makes the video less blurry.

no post processing?? I thought the post processing is done inside the decoder rather then the player in real one....

karl_lillevold

31st January 2003, 01:07

Latest news on the ATI driver bug:

ATI has isolated the problem in their drivers and is working on a fix.
I will let you know as soon they provide a public release timeframe for an updated driver; they typically run a three week update cycle, so hopefully this fix will get into the very next update.

Thanks for alerting us to this problem, so we could get in touch with ATI.