ReClock DirectShow filter : try it !

[Xenoproctologist]

Xenoproctologist> The audio speed MUST be changed in order to stay in sync with the video. There is no way to go around this. So resampling is mandatory. You can use "hardware resampling" if it works fine with your soundcard. This will give you original quality sound. To my knowledge no human being can hear pitch differences as low as 10hz
If you want a constant pitch sound, just disable clock correction. You will loose the accurate clock (which is what reclock was made for), and reclock will just act as a framerate changer for your media (ie 23,976->25 fps adaptation for example). But this is a way to use it i really don't recommend.
The clock correction isn't really an issue, and truthfully is what interests me here. It's the framerate changer which is playing havoc with my ears. Since I'm effectively locked at a refresh rate of 75hz (unable to go higher; unwilling to go lower), all my 23.976fps video ends up playing at 25fps with ReClock, resulting in about a half-step increase in audio pitch. What I want is for ReClock to remember that I set it to play at the video's original framerate.

[ogo]

Opps sorry i didn't understand at first :)

Try 72hz, it will automatically play the video at 24fps, which is not very far from 23,976 fps. It should say "CINEMA mode"

[Xenoproctologist]

No dice. 75hz is the minimum I can view for any significant period of time without getting a headache. Anything less and I swear I can feel my retinas bleeding. ^^;

[oddball]

I cannot get ReClock to load whatsoever.

Is there a problem with running ReClock with ffdshow/VobSub/DiVXG400/AC3filter?

Matrox G400 Dual Head Max32
SBLive! Original
WinXP
P3 700

[ogo]

Hi !

First of all happy new year :)

Version 0.99 of ReClock is out. This version have a LOT of changes, including some experimental support for AC3 pass through, and DVD frame rate detection. :D

I'll submit version 1.0 to Doom9 when it will be ready, but for now it's a bit too early

Thanks for reporting any problem :)

[sillKotscha]

Hi ogo,

concerning my 'problem' above I can tell you... now it works like a charm :D

thanks very much

and happy new year to you as well :cool:

Sill

[billou2k]

Hi I didnt test reclock much since last time sorry;-)
but reading ogo's readme, I was wondering if xbox (or other game consoles) dvd playback was expected to be a bit jerky as well (as xbox is basically a small pc)? Ogo have you got an idea on the question?
I recently got one (XBOX), I didnt test dvd playback much yet (no much time in christmas period) but I ve watched some episodes of ER (japanese zone2) and its not really what i call smooth video... maybe it's because I'm in UK (25Hz) and ER comes from US (29.97Hz) ... but if it is the reason it should be jerky on any dvd standalone player right?
Can someone else with xbox at home could tell me if dvd playback is always smooth (and what kind of format is usually played, PAL NTSC ..?)
(sorry the post may be not completly related with reclock but as its partially I thought it would be ok to post it here)

[Chibi Jasmin]

Originally posted by ogo
DVD frame rate detection. :D

Fails on NTSC content...detects 29.97 fps on a stream that is actually 23.976 fps. You should know that software players don't perform telecine on playback as the flags in the stream indicate...but there still is true 29.97 fps content on ntsc dvds sometimes (documentaries etc.), so if you somehow get this corrected, will it autodetect changes while playing (switching from main movie at 23.976 fps to extras at 29.97 fps or something like that)?

Please add an override button, in case detection is wrong...before I could watch my ntsc-movies fine on pal tv by setting it to 23.976, it then got speed up to 25 and all was fine. Now it wrongly detects 29.97 and I am stuck.

BTW: I just saw new Zoom Player beta has the following feature:

* New "UseSystemClock" function for Graph Building scripts. This
function tells Zoom Player to create a System Clock and use it
to keep Sync. It may help with microstutter issues but may also
cause Audio Desync.

Is this something like what ReClock does? Maybe it's not as sophisticated as ReClock...we don't know what from Blight creates the clock or what he syncs it with...or is it something different? Should the two be used together or not??? Please test it, as you are into this stuff...as far as I got it, you have to add 'UseSystemClock' to your manual graphs...see sample graphs with latest ZoomPlayer 3.00 beta 4

[ppera2]

I checked V. 0.99 . Unfortunately there is still no improvement about work under Win 98. It still locks WMP. I deinstalled all filter, and used only DivX 3.11, but it locked all the time.

[gabest]

ogo: Isn't that Win16Mutex/Win16Lock causing the lockup problem? I don't know if it also affects dsound or reclock, but when a dx surface is locked any gdi call from other threads will halt.

[Airw0lf]

Hi guys, I installed ReClock for the first time a few minutes ago, and I have two questions.

I just installed v0.99 and I am wondering how I can access the ReClock properties window via the start menu as mentioned in the documentation. The ReClock folder in the start menu only contains a link to the readme and to the uninstaller. I'm guessing someone must have forgotten to put the link in the new build. Could someone post what the shortcut normally points to so that I could make it myself? I need this when I'm playing DVDs in PowerDVD.

Also, does ReClock have an effect on TV Tuners? In other words, when I'm watching TV via the ATI DirectShow TV App, is ReClock working in the background too? In such a case, I wouldn't really want ReClock to be enabled, since TV viewing has worked near perfect (touch wood) for me in the past...

[mwillberg]

Let me say, great work! I _love_ the smooth playback. Always thought I had some problems with my system (even though I've had several GFX and sound cards) since the playback has never been 100% smooth on TVs. Well now it is! :)

However, I noticed 2 issues that I haven't read about in neither the readme nor this thread:

1) When first playing a file, the sync is off. I'd say the sound lags by up to 500ms. The timing gradually improves, and after about 30s it is no longer noticable. This happens with both 25fps and 23.976fps clips.

2) Ok, I read and understand that AC3-passthrough is experimental, but I assume you still want feedback. Works fine for me, except I get a huge memoryleak. About 10MB/minute. The exact same graph with ReClock uninstalled doesn't show this, but I can make a list of all filters in use if necessary. Just to clear up, this _only_ seems to happen with AC3-sound, not with MP3 and Vorbis.

My system (or the parts that might be useful to know):

Windows 2000 Professional SP2
DirectX 8.1
Duron 800mhz
ATi All-In-Wonder 128 hooked up to a PAL television
Soundblaster Live 5.1 Player with optical addon
ZoomPlayer used for playback.

[Ewi]

Hi!

At first: I like your filter VERY much. Thank you.

But I think I have a serious bug here:

I'm using ReClock 0.99 with Zoomplayer 2.90 under WinXP SP1. I have problems using the latest Xvid DSF from Nic (I have them from Koepis Page)(XviD-Dec-291202.exe).

Always I start an Xvid coded movie I get a (forever repeating) popup message saying "Invalid floating point operation" from Zoomplayer (as you can see in the Screenshot). But the movie starts and you can hear sound for 1 second or so.

http://www21.brinkster.com/gunter123/crash.html

I have to hardkill Zoomplayer via taskmanager.

All other sources work fine (DivX502,MPEG1,MPEG2,WMV). If I change the 4cc code in my Avi to DIVX/DX50 the file plays fine (now decoded by DivX5 filter for sure).

For a short test I used WMP8 to play these Xvid files. Same behaviour: Crash after 2 seconds. Here is a message, too, but it pops up for a millisecond and does not remain onscreen, so I don't know what WMP8 is saying.

If I uninstall Reclock everything is fine...

Thank you in advance...

P.S.: If further reports on this are useful I would be glad to help

[Airw0lf]

mwillberg - regarding your first point, I think you will find that the answer is in the readme.rtf:

"- When your run ReClock for the first time for a specific resolution and refresh rate, the reference clock will be inaccurate during the first minutes of playback while being corrected. This can cause jerky playback at the beginning of the movie. The time to obtain an accurate clock will depend on many factors (initial error of clock, PC speed, …). After this adjustment, ReClock will store the correction in the registry, so when you will open another media, the clock correction parameters will be retrieved."

Try playing those files again, if the registry settings are present after running for the first time, you shouldn't have too many more problems.

[mwillberg]

@Airwolf:

Thanks for your answer.

However, I had one of the files running for 8 minutes, stopped, and started playing it again. Still desynced. And I just checked the registry, the settings for my current resolution _are_ there.

So that's not it I'm afraid, but I apologize that I didn't make myself clear about this in my first post.

[ogo]

Wow lots of reports :)

Ok here we go ...

oddball> Maybe you should try without DIVXG400

billou2k> Really i don't know for the XBOX (i don't have one). Knowing if the XBOX uses DirectShow to render DVD's would help, but i doubt it does.

Chibi Jasmin> Yes there is a problem for NTSC between 23,976 and 29,97fps content. The frame rate detection code for DVD is based on MS provided objects, but they just provide NTSC/PAL info, so it's just a choice between 25 and 29,97fps. Maybe Gabest has some lights on this ? If i don't find a way to differentiate 23,976 and 29,97 i'll remove frame rate detection for NTSC DVD. For your question about ZP SystemClock, well it's just a clock based on the PC system clock, and this clock is synced to nothing. So it's a matter of luck. If the system clock runs at a speed that is closer to the video card clock than the sound provided clock, then you will get less video stuttering. If not you will get the reverse result. There is not synchronisation process in this.

ppera2> Please send me your logs by email (c:\reclock_log.txt)

gabest> Could you help me for the NTSC DVD framerate issue ? The locking problem was mainly interaction between the graph and my renderer. I cannot query other interfaces and call methods from the filter graph from the renderer when i want (especially before the rendering starts) without going into locking issues (the debugger just tells me it stuck into some NT API call). Starting with 0.99 i use a separate thread for this and it's much better.

Airw0lf> There is not access to properties from the start menu. You must have the filter running to access its properties from you media player. Maybe i'll add a switch in the start menu to enable/disable reclock. I doubt reclock has any effect on tv tuners.

mwillberg> Yes the sounds can get off sync sometime at the beginning of playback. It can occurs if you sound card clock run at a speed that is very far from the reference clock provided by reclock. For AC3 you're right, there is a HUGE memory leak :D It's solved in the next version. Speaking of AC3 did you notice little drops in sound or bizarre things in sound ? I ask you that because of the way i use to resync AC3 sound (it's explained in the changelog). Could you send me your logs ? I'll check if there is a problem with sound.

Ewi> Yes i reproduced your problem. Not my fault here :) It's a bug in XVID decoder filter. As you may know floating point registers are shared with MMX registers, and XVID filter forget to restore the floating point registers before to call the reference clock. I have a workaroung for this in the next version of reclock (available tonight), but i will send a mail to Koepis. It was working without reclock, because the default clock does not use floating point like me ...


So next version will be out tonight with
- a fix for memory leak in AC3
- a workaround for crash with xvid
- a solution for NTSC DVD (either automatic framerate detection removed, or something else)

Cheers,
OGO

[Ewi]

@ogo:

Oh!!

Excuse me for blaming you. It was not my intention to make a false alarm here. It was only my conclusion cause it was working without Reclock.

Thank you very much for resolving this issue this fast....

[Chibi Jasmin]

Originally posted by ogo
Chibi Jasmin> Yes there is a problem for NTSC between 23,976 and 29,97fps content. The frame rate detection code for DVD is based on MS provided objects, but they just provide NTSC/PAL info, so it's just a choice between 25 and 29,97fps. Maybe Gabest has some lights on this ? If i don't find a way to differentiate 23,976 and 29,97 i'll remove frame rate detection for NTSC DVD. For your question about ZP SystemClock, well it's just a clock based on the PC system clock, and this clock is synced to nothing. So it's a matter of luck. If the system clock runs at a speed that is closer to the video card clock than the sound provided clock, then you will get less video stuttering. If not you will get the reverse result. There is not synchronisation process in this.


Well, mayb an override button for the detected frame rate is always nice (just in case, the detection is screwed for whatever reason, not to say it ever was screwed except for this ntsc thing).

Okay, I will just forget about the zoom player clock thing then...

[Airw0lf]

ogo - thanks for your prompt reply. I think an enable/disable shortcut would be nice, it would help people a little with debugging. They wouldn't have to manually register/unregister the filter every time...

And a question for everyone in here more or less - has anyone got reclock working with DVD playback under ZoomPlayer, or is this not possible? (I think I saw a message to this effect way back on the first page of the thread, but I'm not sure I understood it right.) In any case, here's my situation: playing in DVD mode does not bring up the ReClock filter in the filters menu. However, if I rip a DVD to hard disk and manually load a .VOB file, then I can get ReClock to work. ReClock appears automatically for any other type of file too. (MPEG, etc)

Thanks, and sorry if this is a stupid question. I've only just started using Zoom Player for DVD playback, I've used PowerDVD in the past. The only problem with PowerDVD is that you can't bring up a filter menu, so there's no way to check up on ReClock!

[ogo]

Ok, as said this morning version 0.99b is available on my website. It fixes the leak in AC3, DVD NTSC is back in manual mode, and XVID no longer crashes.

ogo - thanks for your prompt reply. I think an enable/disable shortcut would be nice, it would help people a little with debugging. They wouldn't have to manually register/unregister the filter every time...
Yes it's on my TODO list

And a question for everyone in here more or less - has anyone got reclock working with DVD playback under ZoomPlayer, or is this not possible? (I think I saw a message to this effect way back on the first page of the thread, but I'm not sure I understood it right.) In any case, here's my situation: playing in DVD mode does not bring up the ReClock filter in the filters menu. However, if I rip a DVD to hard disk and manually load a .VOB file, then I can get ReClock to work. ReClock appears automatically for any other type of file too. (MPEG, etc)
Yes you can do it. It's simple : Go to Player options->Manual filters, then check "Use Custom Audio in DVD mode" and highlight "ReClock Audio Renderer". You're done :)

Thanks, and sorry if this is a stupid question. I've only just started using Zoom Player for DVD playback, I've used PowerDVD in the past. The only problem with PowerDVD is that you can't bring up a filter menu, so there's no way to check up on ReClock!
PowerDVD and WinDVD don't use ReClock. Either they load their own renderer or they use the default one.

[mwillberg]

@ogo:

Thanks for fixing the memory leak, now I will be able to watch for more than a few minutes (only have 128MB in my movie-computer)... :)

No, I can hear no artifacts in the sound at all. When I checked the log I saw the drop/repeat happens quite often, and no, I cannot tell. Sounds perfect with my amp anyway.

I wasn't sure if you wanted me to send you a log of the AC3-problem or the sync, so I did both. I deleted the registry-settings and the log, then I ran an OGM-file containing XviD and Vorbis two times, and then an AVI containing XviD and AC3. After that I quit ZoomPlayer.

Funny though, I kept regedit open the whole time, and the settings weren't saved until I closed ZoomPlayer. Even if I did a full stop (and thereby closing the file) between running the clips. Is that normal?

The log is sent to your email.

Please keep up the great work, this is definitely the best improvement for PC-video in a long time!

[Airw0lf]

ogo - keep up the good work. Now I've got DVD and ReClock working in ZoomPlayer. For those who might need it, this is how you unregister the ReClock filter:

regsvr32.exe /u "C:\Program Files\ReClock\ReClock.ax"

If you want to turn it back on, use

regsvr32.exe "C:\Program Files\ReClock\ReClock.ax"

Your install path may vary, so change the path as required...

[Ewi]

I don't want to bother you, but I have a question:

Is it good to delete the registry value for the resolutions from time to time or is this completly unnecessary? If Reclock calculates its values once and then relies on them, deleting them would be good; if reclock does correct these values at runtime all the time, this would be bad, cause Reclock would have to start with shit values everytime I delete these values.

What makes me asking this is the following situation: I start a movie in zoomplayer using reclock when switched with TvTool to TVmode. Then, without stopping the movie, switch back to monitor; result is that "audio clock correction" is 100%(and audio pitch is very high). So something has gone wrong here (but it's possible, that this is a rather bad example for what I mean here). But if I do this when Reclock is in its "calculation phase" (don't know how to call it) I would have forever these false values (when calculating is done only once if a resolution is new to Reclock)

Thank you again...

[ogo]

No, I can hear no artifacts in the sound at all. When I checked the log I saw the drop/repeat happens quite often, and no, I cannot tell. Sounds perfect with my amp anyway.
Fine !

Funny though, I kept regedit open the whole time, and the settings weren't saved until I closed ZoomPlayer. Even if I did a full stop (and thereby closing the file) between running the clips. Is that normal?
Yes it is normal :)

Is it good to delete the registry value for the resolutions from time to time or is this completly unnecessary? If Reclock calculates its values once and then relies on them, deleting them would be good; if reclock does correct these values at runtime all the time, this would be bad, cause Reclock would have to start with shit values everytime I delete these values.
No it's unnecessary to delete them. reclock does not compute the values once, it recomputes them continuously.

What makes me asking this is the following situation: I start a movie in zoomplayer using reclock when switched with TvTool to TVmode. Then, without stopping the movie, switch back to monitor; result is that "audio clock correction" is 100%(and audio pitch is very high). So something has gone wrong here (but it's possible, that this is a rather bad example for what I mean here). But if I do this when Reclock is in its "calculation phase" (don't know how to call it) I would have forever these false values (when calculating is done only once if a resolution is new to Reclock)
In fact, reclock is always in "calculation phase". But as the clock gets more accurate, correction is done less often and corrections will be very little to fine tune the clock. You can see it if your delete the registry settings. At first, corrections are made every few seconds, then as time passes, every 10, 20, seconds, then minutes, etc ... You also see it with the ppm indicator. As soon as the ppm is under 1 ppm you can consider your clock accurate (1 ppm = 0,000001% deviation)
The big thing to do to know is reclock is doing its job is to check that the ppm indicator is LOW (less than 1-2 ppm) and STABLE.
When you switch resolution or refresh rate while the playback is running, reclock will see it and restart a correction cycle for the new resolution/refresh rate, starting from the registry values (if any) for this resolution

[ogo]

Gabest i have a little question for you concerning Media Player Classic :) I have a little fix to make reclock compatible with graphedit loading/saving of graphs.

Currently reclock returns the clsid of the default audio wave renderer when requested via GetClassID(). That's why graph load/save from graphedit does not work.
However it register itself and discuss with COM with its own clsid. I corrected this, but now MPC does not load reclock when the builtin audio switcher is used because i suppose MPC does only know the 2 default audio renderers. Could you correct MPC to handle this ? I think the best way would be to enumerate the filters in the category CLSID_AudioRendererCategory.

Another thing: it also seems that when i choose "resample to 44100hz" with the builtin audio switcher in AC3 mode, MPC tries to resample AC3 frames at 44100hz.

The clsid of reclock is :
DEFINE_GUID(CLSID_ReClock,
0x9dc15360, 0x914c, 0x46b8, 0xb9, 0xdf, 0xbf, 0xe6, 0x7f, 0xd3, 0x6c, 0x6a);


Thanks
OGO

[gabest]

However it register itself and discuss with COM with its own clsid. I corrected this, but now MPC does not load reclock when the builtin audio switcher is used because i suppose MPC does only know the 2 default audio renderers.Hm, I have downloaded and tried the latest reclock.ax and it loaded fine for any file when the system default renderer was selected.Another thing: it also seems that when i choose "resample to 44100hz" with the builtin audio switcher in AC3 mode, MPC tries to resample AC3 frames at 44100hz. Ok, but what's the prob with it? It should resample anything above 44.1KHz if that checkbox is set, or not?

edit: Ah, you mean when it lets spdif to pass through. Ooops :P

(p.s. Hehe, and yea, I saw your accidentally copypasted interface def ;))

[ogo]

(p.s. Hehe, and yea, I saw your accidentally copypasted interface def )
You're fast :)

Hm, I have downloaded and tried the latest reclock.ax and it loaded fine for any file when the system default renderer was selected.
Well the corrected version is not yet on my website :) Can you email me your email adress so i can send you the version that have the problem ?

Ok, but what's the prob with it? It should resample anything above 44.1KHz if that checkbox is set, or not?
Not if formattag is WAVE_FORMAT_DOLBY_AC3_SPDIF. AC3 frames do not contain PCM samples, but binary data for an external decoder :-)

[gabest]

Originally posted by ogo
Not if formattag is WAVE_FORMAT_DOLBY_AC3_SPDIF. AC3 frames do not contain PCM samples, but binary data for an external decoder :-) Ok, it was only forgetting to leave the media type untouched, the ac3 data was not downsampled or anything :) I'm going to upload a new build soon.

Mail sent.

[sillKotscha]

Originally posted by gabest
I'm going to upload a new build soon.


hi gabest,

good news... could you be so kind and have a look in this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41678). There is a link to screenshot I've made. I don't know why but it's only MPC showing me some filter_properties double. If I play the files with ZP for example and enter the filter_property_page everthing is as it should?!!

thanks

Sill

[gabest]

http://vobsub.edensrising.com/mpc2kxp6422.rar
http://vobsub.edensrising.com/mpc98me6422.rar

edit: fixed the url

[ogo]

Works perfectly! Thanks

[mwillberg]

I have some bad news... Now that I use the new version that doesn't eat memory I started to watch a whole movie just to enjoy the smooth playback. Well, now I _am_ able to hear drop-outs of the sound.

It doesn't happen very often, and as you say, seems to get more and more infrequent the longer I have the video playing.

For me the smooth playback is well worth the occasional dropout, but if you somehow find another way to handle AC3-streams I'll be the first to test it.

Still, I wanted to report this since you don't have an amp to test with.

[oddball]

ReClock 99b kills AC3filter .54b SPDIF output stone dead. I lose all SPDIF AC3 output from DiVX files when ReClock is used as a custom audio filter in Zoom Player 2.90

[oddball]

Ah sorry. I was not using 99b. But now I have SPDIF output back I have another problem. The AC3 audio keeps going 'blip blip blip' in cycles. Like a kind of dropout.

[mwillberg]

@oddball:

The "blip blip blip" you are hearing are probably repeating frames. As ogo has explained in the readme, the only thing he can do to keep the AC3-stream in sync is to remove or repeat frames. I also get some dropouts, but after a while they seem to stop.

[oddball]

Nevermind. I finally figured it out. I've set my monitor to a multiple of 24 now as it was at 75Hz and what ReClock was trying to do was speedup an AC3 DiVX to 25FPS to match the screen sync (In auto mode) which causes drop out on AC3 audio as AC3 audio cannot be spedup like MP3 etc can.

[Chibi Jasmin]

'AC3 audio can't be speed up' is only true for SPDIF output...with analog 5.1 output speeding up works fine here.

[kallekill]

I also get blips in the audio when I use spdif out. It happens about once per second. It would be nice if there was a option to turn of Reclock's spdifout support so that you don't have to uninstall it every time you watch a movie with ac3.

[oddball]

Kallekill in Zoom Player you can. Just switch it off in cutsom audio filters. Also the blips are caused by incorrect framerate to video Hz syncing. ReClock will push a 23.976FPS movie to 25FPS if running at 85Hz for instance. I don't know if this is intentional or a bug. I set my video card to 72Hz output (ReClock needs a video Hz that is either a multiple of 24 or 25) and the blips on SPDIF output went away. I use AC3Filter for SPDIF output also.

[Ewi]

I have TvTool here with working PAL60 mode. Is it recommended to use it with Reclock for 29,97 sources (I think so...)? What is better for Reclock at 23,97: PAL60 or normal PAL50?

Thank you again...

[Safai]

and anything we can do for 23.976fps on ~60Hz NTSC TVOut?

[kallekill]

I play 23.97 fps movies at a refreshrate of 120 hz. Reclock resamples it to 24 but I still get blips once per second

[Sumster]

Ogo..

Again, great work on this filter! I am one of those who uses SPDIF out to an external amp along with TV out at 60Hz (my all-in-wonder Radeon only allows a refresh of 60Hz when using TV-out)

I now have beautiful smooth video, but as others have noticed am able to hear repeats and drop-outs. My system clock is +/- 0.3 ppm accurate and drop-outs/repeats only occur about every 5-10 seconds (as long as I play video at original speed at 23.976 fps... if I increase the frame rate, there are too many repeats in order to stay in sync).

I had two questions:

1) If my system clock can run that accurately, shouldn't drop-outs/repeats be extremely rare if the audio is trying to stay in sync with an accurate clock?

2) What is the current threshold of desync needed before the filter adds or drops a packet? (eg. once it desyncs 20 ms, 40 ms, etc) Apparently, as long as the AC3 stream is within +/- 100 msec of the video, the desync is not noticable. Therefore, if the threshold were increased before packets were dropped/added, perhaps over time the drop-outs and repeats could cancel themselves out. Of course, if the desync became too severe, something would have to be done.

On the same note, perhaps there could be a monitor saying how many +/- msec of desync there currently is and the actual threshold before correction could be manually set.

Just a thought.... keep up the good work!! This filter is the most impressive advance in home theater PC's in a long time! The number of times I have replaced hardware and tweaked software settings in order to reduce stuttering panning scenes is unbelivable!

Take care... Sumster

[Sumster]

P.S. Safai... when I am not using AC3 passthrough but am using 60Hz NTSC with a 23.976 movie.... Reclock says nothing can be done. I manually set it to refresh/2.5... that scales the fps up to 24 fps. Not an exact multiple, but makes playback a bit smoother.

[kallekill]

What I would like is a option to turn of framerate adaption when playing ac3-files and still use the clocks correction. Then I can still use reclock without the blips in the audio.

[ogo]

Hi guys :)

The next version of ReClock should not be out until late this week. I'm trying to figure out some problems that are hard to solve.

I will change the behaviour of frame rate adaptation for AC3 SPDIF. For now, reclock tries for example to play 23,976 material at 25 if your refresh rate is a multiple of 25. But that's not a good idea for AC3, because it causes a huge resampling. As you know resampling of AC3 means repeat/drop frames so 25/23,976 means 4% speed change, and it's too much.
What i will do for AC3 (only for AC3) is :
from 23,9 to 24,1 : play at 24fps if refresh rate is a multiple of 24
from 24,9 to 25,1 : play at 25fps if refresh rate is a multiple of 25
from 29,9 to 30,1 : play at 30fps if refresh rate is a multiple of 30
As of now if you play a 23,976 file on a PAL TV, you will get at "blip" every second.

There is a hidden "feature" for AC3 on version 0.99b. If you check "disable clock correction", reclock will stop repeating/dropping AC3 frames. So you should hear "clear" sound. But sound will desync slowly, and you will loose system clock correction (that's a tradeoff for now). I'm still figuring how to improve AC3 support but making something round square is not easy :)

Now to answer some questions :
oddball> to attenuate "blips", you can choose the framerate instead of leaving it to "auto"

and anything we can do for 23.976fps on ~60Hz NTSC TVOut?
Not a perfect solution, but you can try "Refresh rate/2.5" for 23,976 on 60hz NTSC.

I have TvTool here with working PAL60 mode. Is it recommended to use it with Reclock for 29,97 sources (I think so...)? What is better for Reclock at 23,97: PAL60 or normal PAL50?
Yes PAL60 is the better choice for 29,97 material. For 23,976 the better is PAL50 (reclock will play the media at 25)

1) If my system clock can run that accurately, shouldn't drop-outs/repeats be extremely rare if the audio is trying to stay in sync with an accurate clock?
Accurate system clock means no deviation between system clock and video clock. But audio clock is not related to these 2 other clocks. That's why reclock needs to resample audio to make it stay in sync with the rest.

2) What is the current threshold of desync needed before the filter adds or drops a packet? (eg. once it desyncs 20 ms, 40 ms, etc) Apparently, as long as the AC3 stream is within +/- 100 msec of the video, the desync is not noticable. Therefore, if the threshold were increased before packets were dropped/added, perhaps over time the drop-outs and repeats could cancel themselves out. Of course, if the desync became too severe, something would have to be done.
Good question. In the current version between 1 and 4 frames (1 frame = 32ms)

On the same note, perhaps there could be a monitor saying how many +/- msec of desync there currently is and the actual threshold before correction could be manually set.
I'll think of it. Maybe a registry tweak ?

What I would like is a option to turn of framerate adaption when playing ac3-files and still use the clocks correction. Then I can still use reclock without the blips in the audio.
To turn off frame rate adaptation, just use "Original speed"

[Chibi Jasmin]

Originally posted by ogo
I will change the behaviour of frame rate adaptation for AC3 SPDIF. For now, reclock tries for example to play 23,976 material at 25 if your refresh rate is a multiple of 25. But that's not a good idea for AC3, because it causes a huge resampling. As you know resampling of AC3 means repeat/drop frames so 25/23,976 means 4% speed change, and it's too much.
What i will do for AC3 (only for AC3) is :
from 23,9 to 24,1 : play at 24fps if refresh rate is a multiple of 24
from 24,9 to 25,1 : play at 25fps if refresh rate is a multiple of 25
from 29,9 to 30,1 : play at 30fps if refresh rate is a multiple of 30
As of now if you play a 23,976 file on a PAL TV, you will get at "blip" every second.


Only change it for SPDIF (digital out)!! Using analog ac3 output resampling from 23.976 to 25 fps is fine as it is!!!!

Maybe that's what you meant anyway, thought it's not that clear, first you said 'ac3 spdif', but then 'ac3'...just to be sure :D

[Sumster]

Ogo, thanks a million.

Just a quick question... is there a way to log how many frames are being added/dropped in the AC3 stream by Reclock while playing a movie (ie. a log file)? I just wanted to see if my system tends to add frames or drop frames (and to calculate the percentages to see if they will cancel out over time, calculate the rate at which desync would accumulate, etc.).

I also look forward manually playing with the "threshold to desync adjustment". Increasing it to 4-6 frames might get rid of the tiny micro-adjustements that are hard to handle.

Thanks again!

Sumster

[Safai]

@ogo

is there a way to NOT log the stuff... ;)

[Sumster]

Sorry for the multiple messages....

Ogo.. side note. When I enable the "disable clock correction", my AC3 out still seems to drop/add frames and stay in sync. I'm using 99b....

Take care.