Encoding 4K HDR 4:2:0 10bit BT.2020 (continuation)

[surami]

This is the continuation of the Encoding 4K HDR 4:2:0 10bit BT.2020 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172724) thread.

The last evaluable post was the #202 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1783773#post1783773), please continue the discussion here...

[kabelbrand]

Are there any Hybrid Log Gamma HDR test sequences or reference encodes out there?

The BBC seems to have a HLG test clip available in iPlayer on some Smart TVs:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2016/12/hdr-4k-uhd-iplayer-trial-planet-earth

[visionplushdr]

Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade VISIONPLUSHDR-1000 ( 10.000 nits grading ) sample in 1850 NITS MadVR Output - BT. 2020 Display Calibration colorspace, pure power curve gamma 2.60.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgWY4mCre84

The Martian VISIONPLUSHDR-1000 ( 10.000 nits grading ) sample in 1700 NITS MadVR Output - BT. 2020 Display Calibration colorspace, pure power curve gamma 2.60.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8thnOe8KxY

Wanted to show it.

Videos are recorded in BT. 2020 colorpsace output, by using saturation in MadVR to expand the color to be seen in YT.

Videos are BT. 2020 graded, where you can choose BT.709 colorspace in MadVR and you get default output for any TV, here saturation is not even needed. Goes to 0, default.

When you use DCI-P3 you have to get those newer TV sets with 97 or more coverage, here you also don't apply saturation. If you get a panel with less DCI-P3 reproduction, saturation helps again.

And for the native BT. 2020 you must always apply saturation due to non existant panels capable to fully reproduce the 2020 palette.

Applying saturation from in the player can sound odd, though expanded BT. 2020 native colorspace can look really good compared to "native" 709/DCI.

HDR Blu-Rays use DCI-P3 Conversion by metadata, this restricts the playback only to DCI.

[Asmodian]

Why would you use BT.2020 output from madVR?

If I understand what you are doing you are rendering into BT.2020 and then arbitrarily increasing the saturation so that it looks better when YT pretends it is BT.709. It would be a lot more correct to render to BT.709 in the first place.

If your display doesn't support a color space don't render into that color space.

[visionplushdr]

Why would you use BT.2020 output from madVR?

If I understand what you are doing you are rendering into BT.2020 and then arbitrarily increasing the saturation so that it looks better when YT pretends it is BT.709. It would be a lot more correct to render to BT.709 in the first place.

If your display doesn't support a color space don't render into that color space.

My display does 100% DCI coverage ( PRM-4220 ). I don't render in 2020, i do HDR transfers which are 2020 just like the blu-rays, when converting to DCI-P3 due to the non existant displays.

709 is a limited gamut, this is why HDR content works in DCI. When using 2020 and saturation it can look a lot better than 709 and it depends on how you grade. Not every grading is the same, grading is art.

In this particular video there's a lot of yellow output for Indiana Jones when applying saturation to the 2020. When it's played with 709 the colors are not so natural.

When you watch a 709 movie the palette is completely limited where you are used to see "red" skin. This doesn't happens when you use DCI or 2020 with saturation.

Overall colorspace is more natural in a higher colorspace, when your panel can't output the full palette, it will output what i can, though compared to the 709 colorspace, when grading is correct output is a lot more closer to the natural colors.

[kolak]

One thread has been closed because of you and now you are back with your "HDR masters".
Stop spamming, we have already seen your work.

[visionplushdr]

One thread has been closed because of you and now you are back with your "HDR masters".
Stop spamming, we have already seen your work.

Where does it says i can't post? What work you have seen? Youtube? That's great. I will continue to show my work as this is a forum to show work in digital video.

This is HEVC HDR thread and i do the same.

Your irony makes you look dull against no arguments whatsoever you can tell about my work. You don't seem to give to the thread anything interesting either i recommend you to leave then.

[nevcairiel]

This thread is about the technical aspects of encoding HEVC HDR. Your discussion about taste can go into separate threads, thanks.

[visionplushdr]

This thread is about the technical aspects of encoding HEVC HDR. Your discussion about taste can go into separate threads, thanks.

What taste? There's no taste in encoding HEVC HDR. And i have seen zero posts about encoding 4K HDR on here with proof on their work either. Do you encode in 4K HDR? Can you show what you do, since it looks people on here argues about other's people work though i don't see any work from you, or anybody in this topic.

Anyone can post "technical" copy paste from other websites/forums/blogs on here and it doesn't go to anywhere when there's no proof of anyone on here except myself showing their work and how the final video looks like with your technical aspects.

[kolak]

Here we go again- so xxx boring.

Do you use LAV filters? Nevcairiel is LAV developer, so he compared to you done quite an amazing job.

[WhatZit]

Guyz! Guyz! MusicVideos... err... sorry... "VisionPlus" is right! :stupid:

You CAN convert 8-bit BT.709 sources into PERFECT 4K BT.2020 for those times when overly-creative hollywood noobs can't even get the colours right themselves!

None of you "Doomers" with your extensive industry qualifications or decades of experience would EVER have thought of this!

Here's how! Read it and weep...

https://image.ibb.co/kgqMka/Colour.jpg

P.S. I'm the best!

P.P.S. This was sarcastic, if you couldn't tell :sly:

[visionplushdr]

Guyz! Guyz! MusicVideos... err... sorry... "VisionPlus" is right! :stupid:

You CAN convert 8-bit BT.709 sources into PERFECT 4K BT.2020 for those times when overly-creative hollywood noobs can't even get the colours right themselves!

None of you "Doomers" with your extensive industry qualifications or decades of experience would EVER have thought of this!

Here's how! Read it and weep...

https://image.ibb.co/kgqMka/Colour.jpg

P.S. I'm the best!

P.P.S. This was sarcastic, if you couldn't tell :sly:

So you are other kid?

Do you want me to post images but in the correct scenario? What is extensive industry decades of experience in HDR?

I will post some examples to prove you wrong if you want, give me some time.

[visionplushdr]

Here we go again- so xxx boring.

Do you use LAV filters? Nevcairiel is LAV developer, so he compared to you done quite an amazing job.

I didn't know Lav filter was an HDR grading. Thanks for the tip. I believe if you keep on arguing with me this will never end, are you re thinking your behavior?

[visionplushdr]

Guyz! Guyz! MusicVideos... err... sorry... "VisionPlus" is right! :stupid:

You CAN convert 8-bit BT.709 sources into PERFECT 4K BT.2020 for those times when overly-creative hollywood noobs can't even get the colours right themselves!

None of you "Doomers" with your extensive industry qualifications or decades of experience would EVER have thought of this!

Here's how! Read it and weep...


P.S. I'm the best!

P.P.S. This was sarcastic, if you couldn't tell :sly:

This is what im working on.

First SDR 709, then HDR DCI.

https://extraimage.net/images/2017/02/09/b8da95838b0b4fdb08ade0f592b5f8fe.md.jpg (https://extraimage.net/image/2Mca)
https://extraimage.net/images/2017/02/09/583581f3aef093251632a1dcecca0ce8.md.jpg (https://extraimage.net/image/2M7o)

I'm not using your software though. And i didn't know the industry had decades of experience in HDR, specially because they don't know how to do it even today. HDR10 standard is crap for example, completely dim in daylight scenes and poor nits graded as well. So?

And find a way to post images in thumbnail,so you are a better doomer.

Updated:

https://extraimage.net/images/2017/02/09/9c5490795ebe62a19a193d78a15e8c78.md.jpg (https://extraimage.net/image/2MOH)
https://extraimage.net/images/2017/02/09/1b357bf35ce43792243c623bfb37a8e7.md.jpg (https://extraimage.net/image/2MOF)

I don't know why this forum can't handle people showing their work, it's supposed you do HDR here, right? Then why nobody shows their work? I would love to see what you are doing in the HDR field.

I really don't care about the people talking about "proper" hdr grading is made out of 10-bit, because? HDR10 is crap. Colorspace from the master doesn't even matters when image in HDR is low nits and dim in daylight scenes, completely broken HDR standard.

Next would be the "dynamic HDR metadata" ( ST. 2094 ) which can be also be done without any metadata. Industry is using the HDR as pure marketing.

And here's a 1200 nits output in DCI-P3 ( higher nits grade than last images )

https://extraimage.net/images/2017/02/09/6ff084d3ac08016730d8fc4843d955f4.md.jpg (https://extraimage.net/image/2MSn)

You can see how HDR "popups" a lot more.

1500 nits :

https://extraimage.net/images/2017/02/09/bd433a1b004376bd6c510be2245a52fe.md.jpg (https://extraimage.net/image/2MS6)

Colors are fine too, i didn't really understand this guy saying before with the ironic sentence "overly-creative hollywood noobs can't even get the colours right themselves!"

What a world.

[visionplushdr]

Guyz! Guyz! MusicVideos... err... sorry... "VisionPlus" is right! :stupid:

P.S. I'm the best!

P.P.S. This was sarcastic, if you couldn't tell :sly:


Please do the same as i do with Avidemux. I wait for your work. You are a prodigy kid.

I'm also sarcastic.

[kuchikirukia]

Guyz! Guyz! MusicVideos... err... sorry... "VisionPlus" is right! :stupid:

You CAN convert 8-bit BT.709 sources into PERFECT 4K BT.2020 for those times when overly-creative hollywood noobs can't even get the colours right themselves!

None of you "Doomers" with your extensive industry qualifications or decades of experience would EVER have thought of this!

You call that HDR? This is HDR!

Boring, faded crap:
https://picload.org/image/roiaplir/big_buck_bunny_480p_surround-f.png


VAST IMPROVEMENT!
https://picload.org/image/roiaplii/capture.png

[visionplushdr]

You call that HDR? This is HDR!

Boring, faded crap:
https://picload.org/image/roiaplir/big_buck_bunny_480p_surround-f.png


VAST IMPROVEMENT!
https://picload.org/image/roiapllw/capture.png

Yes then looks like there are a LOT OF KIDS in doom9 nowadays. Hopefully there are still grown ups out there. Now i understand why people argues on the work, nobody does anything in HDR here?

[kuchikirukia]

Yes then looks like there are a LOT OF KIDS in doom9 nowadays. Hopefully there are still grown ups out there. Now i understand why people argues on the work, nobody does anything in HDR here?

You certainly don't.

[visionplushdr]

You certainly don't.

I don't what? This forum is extremely weird.

[visionplushdr]

An update with a hue/luminance fix.

https://extraimage.net/images/2017/02/09/7fdf665dde1bc2f98a253afcd62f351f.md.jpg (https://extraimage.net/image/2MMj)

Really hard movie to get it right in hdr.

This is a 1800 nits output by gamma 2.20.

It's supposed you can show work on here, why people keeps on arguing? This other new guy saying this is not HDR because he doesn't knows what is HDR.

Anyway, hope people begins to show their HDR work on here, would be really good to see what people does, as you may know almost nobody does HDR grading for anything, except this guy from mysterybox, which i don't like because he clips the details on every single video i have seen, plus colors are extremely off for natural scenarios.

[Groucho2004]

Rule 14) Multiple registrations are prohibited and are grounds for immediate account deletion.

Any mods around to kick this dimwit out? Just in case anyone missed it, this (https://forum.doom9.org/member.php?u=225059) is his alter ego.

[visionplushdr]

Any mods around to kick this dimwit out? Just in case anyone missed it, this (https://forum.doom9.org/member.php?u=225059) is his alter ego.

Do you encode in HDR? I'm visionplushdr. What are you talking about?

Can you show something of your work in HDR grading, or you are another guy with nothing to show?

Where is the rule for the users with nothing to show which offtopic an entire thread with garbage?

I believe there should have been a rule for that, and you should be banned among the rest of the kids with the HDR software ridiculous images without thumbnails.

[Groucho2004]

Do you encode in HDR?
No.

I'm visionplushdr.
There may be a cure for that.

What are you talking about?Rule 14, try to read my post again.

Where is the rule for the users with nothing to show which offtopic an entire thread with garbage?42

you should be banned among the rest of the kids with the HDR software ridiculous images without thumbnails.You kinda lost it there, drifting off into unintelligible drivel...

[visionplushdr]

No.


There may be a cure for that.

Rule 14, try to read my post again.

42

You kinda lost it there, drifting off into unintelligible drivel...

Yes you are kinda lost.

Then rule 42? You are filling the thread with garbage and you don't even do HDR. Double problem.

You are also trolling now.

May i ask how old are you? I see you everytime posting offtopics and warning mods with no arguments, you also post inside topics you have no knowledge or interest.

You also post thinking you sound smarter than others. Behavior like yours is exactly the opposite as an intelligent person. Just a heads up.

[Groucho2004]

Yes you are kinda lost.
I do sometimes feel lost. However, not today.

you don't even do HDR
Well, I'm straight.

You are also trolling now.Just a bit, it's very tempting when you're around.

May i ask how old are you?No, you may not.

You also post thinking you sound smarter than others.Really? If that is the case, it's certainly unintentional. Maybe you're simply not used to someone having a reasonable command of the English language?

[visionplushdr]

I do sometimes feel lost. However, not today.


Well, I'm straight.

Just a bit, it's very tempting when you're around.

No, you may not.

Really? If that is the case, it's certainly unintentional. Maybe you're simply not used to someone having a reasonable command of the English language?

Do you realize you are the one devastating the topic, right?

I wonder how you don't get banned when you even argue about people like me that only shows just work and you are here trolling, doing offtopic and you don't even encode anything at all. I have doubts you even know how to encode a video in full hd properly.

Let's get you in the right place: You are the one trolling and messing up the thread. Not me, you can continue to troll the whole topic then later people and moderators will know who is the problem here.

Following your trolling comes the other users that likes garbage filled inside topics, just for fun like you just said " i troll when you are here " . Then who is the problem, you or me?

[visionplushdr]

Anyway, i will avoid the kids.

Here's a screenshot in 1000 nits and DCI-P3.

https://extraimage.net/images/2017/02/09/9c2d6ab726d948dc2d0b79071a4c77e3.md.jpg (https://extraimage.net/image/2Me2)

I will throw more images later in different scenes.

This is a movie from 1989, the movie source got a heavy noise ( not only film grain ) on it that's why was hard to achieve a good HDR grade.

Present ringing on image is from MadVR resizers. Image is being upscaled to 4K.

[Groucho2004]

Do you realize you are the one devastating the topic, right?
Do you realize that everyone who replied to you in this topic is making fun of you or doesn't care about your bullshit? Do you really think that people don't know that you're posting with multiple accounts? How retarded are you?

[visionplushdr]

Do you realize that everyone who replied to you in this topic is making fun of you or doesn't care about your bullshit? Do you really think that people don't know that you're posting with multiple accounts? How retarded are you?

No i don't care because nobody here does HDR so far as i know, nobody is showing anything.
And one guy doesn't even knows what is HDR either. Why i would care? You are so small brain gifted that you care about such things?

I show my work and if you believe it's bullshit then argument on why it's bullshit. I can throw image comparisons against the source to get you shut up and place a warning on how to behalf in the future.

You don't know to grade in HDR. You can't even critic anything on here. You only feel good by trolling me because it's the only thing you can do on here.

I believe you have issues and a lot.

Like i said, i will continue to show the HDR grading i do. Some people ( A LOT, thousands ) loves what i do, 3 or 4 trolls from here are not the world, did you know that?

Thousands of people ( i mean, more than 10.000 ) watched my work and every single people liked it, and that's because nobody else is doing this.

If you don't know what to do on here but trolling then go and create a topic called Groncho Trolling Thread. You may get to know people like you and feel better.

[kolak]

Thousands of people ( i mean, more than 10.000 ) watched my work and every single people liked it, and that's because nobody else is doing this.

If you don't know what to do on here but trolling then go and create a topic called Groncho Trolling Thread. You may get to know people like you and feel better.


Watched on illegal site, where you are charging money to watch your crap HDR made of ripped Blu-rays etc?

ups sorry, I assume you realised that you may get in big trouble and now you don't charge. Why are you not doing it anymore, scared?
Instead your web if full of adverts and some crappy links to some scams.

Your website is a joke- "Real 4K content, Rec.2020" etc etc. You, master of HDR content sell people this crap knowing that all your work comes from Rec.709 masters and it's far from REAL HDR content.

Already told you- buy/rent a good camera, go shoot something, grade yourself and then come back and show us what you have created. Ripping Blu-rays and making HDR version from them is nothing to shout about :) Get real, if you have skill get a job where you can use them and earn money from it.

Do you really don't get it that no one here is interested in your next and next grab of some fake HDR?

[visionplushdr]

Watched on illegal site, where you are charging money to watch your crap HDR made of ripped Blu-rays etc?

ups sorry, I assume you realised that you may get in big trouble and now you don't charge. Why are you not doing it anymore, scared?
Instead your web if full of adverts and some crappy links to some scams.

Already told you- buy/rent a good camera, go shoot something, grade yourself and then come back and show us what you have created. Ripping blu-ray and making HDR version from them is nothing to shout about :) Get real, if you have skill get a job where you can use them and earn money from it.

What scams and what charges? Donations are not a charge. How torrent are illegal? In UK court is even legal now downloading movies. The site you mention is not even hosted in USA. Also what about Popcorn time?

How an HDR grade in torrent that doesn't even exists can be illegal? Movies with no HDR commercial version hosted worldwide in your computer as well, since you have downloaded it as you claim. Then you are in trouble?

Now let's move to the technical aspects.

You don't know how to grade a movie to HDR and that's why you keep on saying it's not proper grading. It looks fine and you can't even argument on why it doesn't looks good to you.

Compared to the SDR Blu-Ray it has HDR, deep blacks, expanded gamut, highlights and it's even native.

Picture is better than SDR version, in any field. So what's wrong with you?

You claim movies must be graded from a "master" and you have never seen such. Studios upscales from 2K and sells "4K". Where's the master there? If they use proper master, movie can easily transferred to full native 4K resolution but hey... it doesn't happens with most of the movies.

Prove me and the rest of the people the transfers i do looks worse than the SDR Version. And prove are not "proper" HDR because... argument on it.

And there's no such thing as fake HDR. It's HDR or it's not. You really have no idea on HDR at all.

[visionplushdr]

Your website is a joke- "Real 4K content, Rec.2020" etc etc. You, master of HDR content sell people this crap knowing that all your work comes from Rec.709 masters and it's far from REAL HDR content.



Prove that claim then. "Real HDR content" looks better. Prove it then.

Your claims needs some support or are just instant ignorance.

[kolak]

If you rip Blu-ray and use it for your own "pleasure" that's sort of fine. If you then take it, make fake HDR version and ask people to pay money to see it on your website, then this is a serious crime.

Why have you stopped charging for access to your website?

If studios sell upscaled content they are in most cases get "punished" for it. People now are more aware what is real/good and what crap and they talk about it. There were many case with BDs being re-done due to people's complain.

This should be on your website: "I rip Blu-rays, make fake HDR of them and try to make money on it, by lying that it's real HDR content. I don't care about content owners as law in my country allows for illegal distribution and copy"

Yes, in some way there is no real or fake HDR, but it's a different story if you make one from RAW assets, compared to some "up conversion".

Can you take SD content and make nice HD of it?

[kolak]

Prove that claim then. "Real HDR content" looks better. Prove it then.

Your claims needs some support or are just instant ignorance.

Go to NAB or IBC show then at least you will be able to see HDR on good monitors.

One thing- have you upgrade madVR- it has improved algorithms so your HDR may look even better then before, as you rely a lot on madVR processing :)

[visionplushdr]

If you rip Blu-ray and use it for your own "pleasure" that's sort of fine. If you then take it, make fake HDR version and ask people to pay money to see it on your website, then this is a serious crime.

Why have you stopped charging for access to your website?

If studios sell upscaled content they are in most cases get "punished" for it. People now are more aware what is real/good and what crap and they talk about. There were many case with BDs being re-done due to people's complain.

This should be on your website: "I rip Blu-rays, make fake HDR of them and try to make money on it, by lying that it's real HDR content. I don't care about content owners as law in my current allows for illegal distribution and copying"

I have never charged anything for any movie. And i do the movies for myself, people started to like the samples on youtube and other forums where shown, then huge portals talked with me to allow public to get it.

The "scams" were just a system to allow the site to be running as it costs money to host such site. And are not scams just surveys or contests. You really have no idea on anything at all, right?

And there's no fake HDR. And i don't rip any blu-rays either. I own the blu-rays, you can't do an HDR grade from a ripped movie.

Blu-Rays are really high bitrate in AVC and works fine for most of the movies, the ones with film grain can also be graded like Indiana Jones.

You confuse quality of source with colorspace as well. The 10-bit from your "masters" are just to do an easier HDR grade and gamut expand, with no dither processing which results in an easy to do HDR grade.

Dithered image to 10-bit ( well dithered ) can look as good as a native 10-bit to the eyes.

You confuse a lot of things because you don't know how HDR grading in movie industry is made.

It's not made with Davinci or Adobe Premiere either. It's not mandatory to grade HDR from a 10 or 12 bit source either. HDR grade can be done from any source. HDR is a process also made on images. You can do HDR to anything you want.

Your proper and real HDR grade doesn't exists, it's just what you believe is HDR in video.

Here's Indiana Jones the tank scene in 1400 nits output DCI-P3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3vd6V35-L4

Same scene from the SDR blu-ray:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tGDSAs_uU4

Now please argument with your technical aspects why it's a fake HDR. I honestly laugh a lot when i read such thing "fake HDR".

That video is in 1400 nits and you can setup up to 10.000 where you get higher range.

Argument like a man not like a kid now.

[kolak]

It's fake in the same sense how 2K master upscaled to 4K is fake, which are your words. You can't interpolate data from Rec.709 gamut to P3. It will never be as good as making P3 grade from RAW assets which "hold" way more colors.

If you were doing SDR from HDR with some cool algorithm then fine- this could work well, but not other way around.

Rec.709 master will have tons of data lost compared to Raw assets which master was made from and there is not a single algorithm in the world which is able to recover them. You perfectly know this. This is why you will never be able to match "real" HDR master which studios can do by going to Raw assets. It's as simple as source assets limitation problem.

No, you can't make HD master (from SD version) looking as good as original and the same applies to your work. It always going to be quite big compromise. Doing good job with what you have? Fine, but stop claiming some superiority etc. Also- note the you mainly compare your work to SDR, not HDR made by others. HDR will look better, as high brightness stimulates eye differently and old Rec.709 and 100nits standard is very outdated. We know this, that's why there is HDR. Technology improved, so time has come to give people something better even at home. It's driven by money as everything in the world, so again- you did not discover anything new here.

[visionplushdr]

It's fake in the same sense how 2K master upscaled to 4K is fake, which are your words. You can't interpolate data from Rec.709 gamut to P3. It will never be as good as making P3 grade from RAW assets which "hold" way more colors.

If you were doing SDR from HDR with some cool algorithm then fine- this could work well, but not other way around.

Rec.709 master will have tons of data lost compared to Raw assets which master was made from and there is not a single algorithm in the world which is able to recover them. You perfectly know this. This is why you will never be able to match "real" HDR master which studios can do by going to Raw assets. It's as simple as source assets limitation.

Again you have no idea and you post like you know what you are posting.

Argument on why it's fake in the looks my friend not on your confused brain. Stop listening to your confused brain and argument on the LOOKS OF THE MOVIE.

Does it have HDR?


Deeper blacks - Checked.
Expanded Gamut - Checked.
Better Highlights - Checked.
Expanded Gamma Curve *PQ - Checked.
More movie details - Checked.
It's native HDR HEVC ST. 2084 / 2020 grade - Checked.


In the looks compared to the SDR blu-ray version, how the SDR version looks like?

Movies are meant to be watched. HDR is meant to be better picture. Did you know that?

Rec. 709 can be HDR. 2020 is the expanded range/colorspace. For the expanded PQ curve which peaks in 10.000 nits. Where you can grade up to it.

Rec. 709 got a limited palette that can be also expanded with several methods. Technicolor is one.

I believe you have no idea and you can't argument on why it looks bad or "fake". Colors are also a lot better. So where's the problen with the 709 source here?

[kolak]

I believe you have no idea and you can't argument on why it looks bad or "fake". Colors are also a lot better. So where's the problen with the 709 source here?

Because studio (or you if had access) can take RAW assets and make master which will be way better than yours as their assets hold tons of more usable data. They have access to huge gamut, high bit depth, can push things a lot in any direction. They have massive possibilities, to tweak it as their assets will let them do it. You, with just 8bit BD source, are very restricted and nothing what you can do about it.

You know this, but yet refuse to acknowledge. Again- I will give you just DVD and ask to make best possible HD master from it. Then I will reveal HD version of it and prove that your upscaled version is crap.

I could point you to some EXR Alexa footage which was shot with dual exposure, so holds about 18 real stops of dynamic range. This is something which would let you to play a lot and also do your own creative grading. It was shot by German uni to do study on HDR.

[visionplushdr]

Because studio can take RAW assets and make master which will be way better than yours as their assets hold tons of more usable data. They have access to huge gamut, high bit depth, can push things a lot in any direction. They have massive possibilities, to tweak it as their assets will let them do it. You, with just 8bit BD source, are very restricted and nothing what you can do about it.

You know this, but yet refuse to acknowledge.

I could point you to some EXR Alexa footage which was shot with dual exposure, so holds about real 18 stops of dynamic range. This is something which would let you to play a lot and also do your own creative grading. It was shot by German uni to do study on HDR.

For sure, but having a higher quality source doesn't instantly makes a better HDR grade. Because people grades it not robots or meta-humans.

HDR10 is crap for example, you can have the best source in the world and when graded to HDR10, the result is horrible. Why? poor nits grade and colorspace doesn't even gets favored by the quality source.

Dolby Vision movies looks a lot better, why? Higher grade. Higher nits output helped by TV different processings to expand levels on lower nits panels from today ( image is changed, not native HDR either here ).

Now, let's say you have a high quality source and groncho grades it to HDR. How it will look like?

And another, you can get a 709 source and make it look better than a crappy HDR grade from a movie studio with a higher quality source, because even Disney screws up colors on their movies. So?


HDR grading is art. It's never fake and it's never perfect. Because people grades it and it depends on how they grade and what sort of methods they use to bring life to the High Dynamic Range version of the movie. Every movie in HDR looks different,a lot of commercial movies in HDR looks like crap.



You know this, but yet refuse to acknowledge. Again- I will give you just DVD and ask to make best possible HD master from it. Then I will reveal HD version of it and prove that your upscaled version is crap.



Upscaling has nothing to do with HDR Grading. Upscale is creating pixels where they are not even exists. HDR Grading is completely other thing.

Now with the 4K, a lot of commercial movies being named as 4K are 2K bilinear upscales which looks horrible as well.

Did you understand the whole point?

[kolak]

Send me 1 sec of some nice HDR scene from your file (original h265, not converted to anything).

[visionplushdr]

Send me 1 sec of some nice HDR scene from your file (original h265, not converted to anything).

Sure name a scene from last crusade and i render it. Or i just look for one myself.

[kolak]

Some colourful, Avatar etc.

[visionplushdr]

Some colourful, Avatar etc.

I was doing the scene where Jones jumps from the window in the middle of the storm, raining with light everywhere.

If you want colorful video then i send that later i have an scene from the martian in the space where you can watch the astronauts in heavy colorful palette.

[kolak]

Any- maybe 5 seconds.

[kolak]

Anyway- I just wanted to see if your video has expanded gamut, but I assume it does. It will be just a matter how good is algorithm.

Typical result for Rec.709 master:

https://s29.postimg.org/hmzdlyxaf/709.png


Samsung Chasing the Lights HDR sample:


https://s29.postimg.org/4k3r2p72f/samsung.png

[visionplushdr]

Anyway- I just wanted to see if your video has expanded gamut, but I assume it does. It will be just a matter how good is algorithm.

Typical result for Rec.709 master:

https://s29.postimg.org/hmzdlyxaf/709.png


Samsung Chasing the Lights HDR sample:


https://s29.postimg.org/4k3r2p72f/samsung.png

Just sent you over PM.

[kolak]

It looks fine, gamut is around P3.
Problem is that colors will be interpolated, so never as good as if you would take them from higher (than P3) gamut source. Limiting is easy, expanding is not. I bet you we would find issues with skin tones, etc. when watched on good reference monitor.

Pushing Rec.709 "edge" colors to P3 edge is easy, but what you do with all gradations etc. We're are back to the same argument. You are interpolating a lot and this always has its limits.

[visionplushdr]

It looks fine, gamut is around P3.
Problem is that colors will be interpolated, so never as good as if you would take them from higher (than P3) gamut source. Limiting is easy, expanding is not. I bet you we would find issues with skin tones, etc. when watched on good reference monitor.

Pushing Rec.709 "edge" colors to P3 edge is easy, but what you do with all gradations etc. We're are back to the same argument. You are interpolating a lot and this always has its limits.

Yes, but like i said it can be done with a 709 source and expand it to make HDR look "good". It's pretty obvious having a high quality source would result in higher quality HDR, but i and anybody in the public got access to those masters. I do what i can with what's available.

That sample you saw it still needs a lot of improvments anyway.

The Skin always is a problem but not for the color expansion, it's a problem in HDR due to the hue/luminance changes against the original in SDR. People can look a lot weird even with the right color.

[kolak]

These are all the reasons why people call your masters "fake".
They are bound to relatively the same issue as making HD from SD- it's all based on interpolation.
Taking all of it into account you can't claim any superiority as any decent job from studio would easily beat your HDR master.
Another thing- you are not doing any grading, but applying fixed math on top of already graded masters.
Grading is about qualifiers, power windows, tracking etc which totally separately adjusts image in many small areas (sometimes even) for each frame. You can keep doing it infinitely and it's directors role to say what he wants and say stop when he is satisfied.
Download some raw assets (there are samples publicly available) and try doing it yourself with e.g. free Resolve. With good source you can push things a lot, 8bit BD source is very restricive.

[visionplushdr]

These are all the reason why people call these master "fake".
They are bound to relatively the same issue as making HD from SD- it's all based on interpolation.
Taking all of it into account you can't claim any superiority as any decent job from studio would easily beat your HDR master.
Another thing- you are not doing any grading, but applying fixed math on top of already graded masters.
Grading is about qualifiers, power windows, tracking etc which totally separately adjusts image in many small areas (sometimes even ) for each frame. You can keep doing it infinitely and it's directors role to say what he wants and say stop when he is satisfied.
Download some raw assets (there are samples publicly available) and try doing it yourself with e.g. free Resolve.

It's the same grading movie studios do. It's a grading from the SDR master. What you are saying is a grading that changes the original movie essence. That can be easily made with even Resolve like you said. This changes the output and the essence.

What i do is an HDR grading from the SDR graded movie = transfer.

Movie studios don't re grade , they transfer.

If you re grade is basically a fan edit, which can look awesome to some and completely edited to others. Movies can't be touched in essence, because that's how director wanted it to look like.

HDR means high dynamic range, where you get deeper blacks, expanded gamut, powerful highlights and more movie details where in SDR you can't or see a lot less. Plus the improved movie contrast.

When you re grade a movie with "resolve" you change the whole thing. Even if you change only the sky or clouds, that's now different and not how it was intended.

Not to mention re grading a whole scene.

Resolve re grade is just for normal videos, home videos, fan edits. Not for movies.

I can show you later the grading from Exodus Gods and Kings ( DEMO IN HDR, official ) against what i do. And you will be surprised it's exactly identical in grading. Same with Life of PI against my transfer.

Movie studios do transfers, not re grade.