Encoding 4K HDR 4:2:0 10bit BT.2020

[benwaggoner]

Apologies if this is a derail but I've attempted to read and re-read this thread many times and am pretty sure this hasn't come up, but why not encode all in ffmpeg? Would it have something to do with the current convo on the shortcomings of ffmpeg and colorspace? Can someone tell me why the below command would not work to produce exactly what the OP wanted? (and yeah first post, ahem)

Input= 16bit 4k HDR10 graded tiffs in rec.2020
I get nervous with "color_matrix=bt2020". Because that is going to be 2020 primaries with gamma, not 2020 with PQ, which is what the x265 command line is using.

It might well work if the source and output are both PQ. Let us know how it works!

[kolak]

Apologies if this is a derail but I've attempted to read and re-read this thread many times and am pretty sure this hasn't come up, but why not encode all in ffmpeg? Would it have something to do with the current convo on the shortcomings of ffmpeg and colorspace? Can someone tell me why the below command would not work to produce exactly what the OP wanted? (and yeah first post, ahem)

Input= 16bit 4k HDR10 graded tiffs in rec.2020

ffmpeg -threads 16 -r 24000/1001 -start_number 0085069 -i 'hdr10_targ5_test_3.%07d.tiff' \\
-vf scale=out_color_matrix=bt2020:out_h_chr_pos=0:out_v_chr_pos=0,format=yuv420p10 -c:v libx265 -preset medium \\
-x265-params crf=12:colorprim=bt2020:transfer=smpte-st-2084:colormatrix=bt2020nc:master-display="G(13250,34500)B(7500,3000)R(34000,16000)WP(15635,16450)L(10000000,1)":max-cll="1000,400" -an /output/test.mp4

OUTPUT:
ffmpeg version N-81451-g8a78fc5 Copyright (c) 2000-2016 the FFmpeg developers
built with gcc 4.8 (Ubuntu 4.8.4-2ubuntu1~14.04.3)
configuration: --enable-libopenjpeg --prefix=/home/CORP/someone/ffmpeg_build \\
--pkg-config-flags=--static --extra-cflags=-I/home/CORP/someone/ffmpeg_build/include \\
--extra-ldflags=-L/home/CORP/someone/ffmpeg_build/lib --bindir=/home/CORP/someone/bin --enable-gpl --disable-libass \\
--enable-libfdk-aac --enable-libfreetype --enable-libmp3lame --enable-libopus --enable-libtheora --enable-libvorbis --enable-libvpx \\
--enable-libx264 --enable-libx265 --enable-nonfree
libavutil 55. 29.100 / 55. 29.100
libavcodec 57. 54.100 / 57. 54.100
libavformat 57. 48.100 / 57. 48.100
libavdevice 57. 0.102 / 57. 0.102
libavfilter 6. 54.100 / 6. 54.100
libswscale 4. 1.100 / 4. 1.100
libswresample 2. 1.100 / 2. 1.100
libpostproc 54. 0.100 / 54. 0.100
Input #0, image2, from 'hdr10_targ5_test.%07d.tiff':
Duration: 00:00:01.96, start: 0.000000, bitrate: N/A
Stream #0:0: Video: tiff, rgb48le, 3840x2160, 25 tbr, 25 tbn, 25 tbc
x265 [info]: HEVC encoder version 2.0+16-215eedc9ecc0
x265 [info]: build info [Linux][GCC 4.8.4][64 bit] 10bit
x265 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 SSE4.2 AVX
x265 [info]: Main 10 profile, Level-5 (Main tier)
x265 [info]: Thread pool created using 24 threads
x265 [info]: frame threads / pool features : 5 / wpp(34 rows)
x265 [info]: Coding QT: max CU size, min CU size : 64 / 8
x265 [info]: Residual QT: max TU size, max depth : 32 / 1 inter / 1 intra
x265 [info]: ME / range / subpel / merge : hex / 57 / 2 / 2
x265 [info]: Keyframe min / max / scenecut : 23 / 250 / 40
x265 [info]: Lookahead / bframes / badapt : 20 / 4 / 2
x265 [info]: b-pyramid / weightp / weightb : 1 / 1 / 0
x265 [info]: References / ref-limit cu / depth : 3 / on / on
x265 [info]: AQ: mode / str / qg-size / cu-tree : 1 / 1.0 / 32 / 1
x265 [info]: Rate Control / qCompress : CRF-12.0 / 0.60
x265 [info]: tools: rd=3 psy-rd=2.00 rskip signhide tmvp strong-intra-smoothing
x265 [info]: tools: lslices=8 deblock sao
[mp4 @ 0x3239340] Using AVStream.codec to pass codec parameters to muxers is deprecated, use AVStream.codecpar instead.
Output #0, mp4, to 'test.mp4':
Metadata:
encoder : Lavf57.48.100
Stream #0:0: Video: hevc (libx265) ([35][0][0][0] / 0x0023), yuv420p10le, 3840x2160, q=2-31, 23.98 fps, 24k tbn, 23.98 tbc
Metadata:
encoder : Lavc57.54.100 libx265
Stream mapping:
Stream #0:0 -> #0:0 (tiff (native) -> hevc (libx265))
Press [q] to stop, [?] for help
frame= 49 fps=1.0 q=-0.0 Lsize= 9831kB time=00:00:01.91 bitrate=41977.1kbits/s speed=0.0391x
video:9829kB audio:0kB subtitle:0kB other streams:0kB global headers:1kB muxing overhead: 0.025485%
x265 [info]: frame I: 1, Avg QP:9.14 kb/s: 96922.02
x265 [info]: frame P: 10, Avg QP:9.70 kb/s: 67176.81
x265 [info]: frame B: 38, Avg QP:13.07 kb/s: 30572.90
x265 [info]: Weighted P-Frames: Y:0.0% UV:0.0%
x265 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 9.1% 0.0% 0.0% 18.2% 72.7%

encoded 49 frames in 49.61s (0.99 fps), 39397.15 kb/s, Avg QP:12.30

Maybe it's better to export straight out of grading app 4:2:2 10bit uncompressed, instead of RGB based format, so data doesn't go over any RGB<->YUV conversion.
You can also now specify "smpte-st-2084" in ffmpeg, so does it mean conversion will be accurate even from RGB?

[musicvideos4k]

VISIONPLUS HDR 10k nits ST. 2084/BT. 2020 Transfer

MadVR HDR to SDR configured in 3000 NITS / Preserve Hue in 0% High Quality and compressing the highlights.

MadVR Color & Gamma Settings:

- Contrast in -24
- Enable Gamma Processing: Pure Power Curve 2.20

Display Calibration:
- This display has been calibrated
- Disable GPU Gamma Ramps
- BT. 2020 Gamut
- Pure Power Curve: 2.40

3000 NITS MADVR:

http://i.imgur.com/oJxK36u.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JJTTTHy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wiSdCr2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aQq8hrf.jpg


And the star of the show.

http://i.imgur.com/pTbFhBR.jpg

[musicvideos4k]

Avatar Transferred to HDR.


2000 nits / Pure Power Curve in 2.40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QqapeMCjZw

Now with 4250 nits / Pure Power Curve in 2.60 and Without Compressing Highlights at all.

Watch these images in a TV Dynamic/Vivo Preset and if you want turn up saturation some more.

http://i.imgur.com/Gq9g2gi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/a4zzR5d.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1PVoayb.jpg

[kolak]

I'm not sure if these grabs show anything interesting.
What are you guys actually do? HDR grading? What do you use as reference screen- Dolby?

[musicvideos4k]

I'm not sure if these grabs show anything interesting.
What are you guys actually do? HDR grading? What do you use as reference screen- Dolby?

2000 nits / Pure Power Curve in 2.40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QqapeMCjZw

Watch that video with a TV Dynamic Preset in fullscreen. And later just watch original SDR Avatar.

Even on youtube you can see the difference, but the best would be playing the hevc stream on HDR tv or MadVR in above settings.

HDR must be displayed fullscreen by using Dynamic TV Presets, at least the one im showing to you here.

With the HEVC stream you get fullscreen directx11 exclusive 10-bit MadVR.

This also has BT. 2020, again even on youtube you can see the color gamut against the original SDR blu-ray.

This is from that video settings by using the same Power Curve on both:

SDR:
http://i.imgur.com/fKCzNZ8.jpg



HDR:
http://i.imgur.com/eCBWw6a.jpg

[kolak]

Different doesn't mean better :)
How I meant to see higher gamut if in both cases I'm just looking at it on Mac screen which just have Rec.709 gamut?
It just looks oversaturated and with to high contrast.

madVR won't rigger HDR mode in most TVs, as it doesn't add correct flagging on HDMI and most consumer TVs don't allow manual set TV to HDR mode. You need to encode h265 with correct flagging and play this from USB, so TV automatically switches to HDR mode.

[musicvideos4k]

Different doesn't mean better :)
How I meant to see higher gamut if in both cases I'm just looking at it on Mac screen which just have Rec.709 gamut?

You need MadVR and the native HDR stream. With MadVR you can calibrate to BT. 2020 even with luts.

It doesn't matter anyway, you can see the gamut difference even on those pictures and on the youtube video. Find the same scene on youtube and compare range and gamut.

And HDR IS better than SDR, in any way.

[kolak]

HDR is going to be better, as SDR is based on spec from many years ago. It was made based on TV capabilities at the time and this has changed a lot since then. Pro industry is very outdated and adopting very slowly compared to other things.
I've seen some HDR v SDR comparison on Sony OLED professional (and on Dolby) monitor and difference looked like day and night :)

TV has to be in HDR mode in order to see HDR advantages. Otherwise it's not a real deal :)

[musicvideos4k]

HDR is going to be better, as SDR is based on spec from many years ago. It was made based on TV capabilities at the time and this has changed a lot since then. Pro industry is very outdated and adopting very slowly compared to other things.
I've seen HDR v SDR on Sony OLED professional monitor and it looked day and night :)

TV has to be in HDR mode in order to see HDR advantages. Otherwise it's not a real deal :)

You don't seem to understand. HDR doesn't needs some TV, the technology is on the video. TV's can expand or make it look better or worse depending their contrast and nits capabilities. Gamut is also on the video not on the TV's.

This is from the same images you said " there is nothing interesting " and " different doesn't means better "

SDR:

http://i.imgur.com/5zs5ghA.jpg

HDR:

http://i.imgur.com/fZ8VfrL.jpg

Same Power Curve on both.

And this is my HDR processing, i don't know what the guys on here are doing.

[kolak]

I know what you mean, but your HDR is far from being correct/optimal :)
Gamut is on the video not TV? It's on both- video is graded to some gamut and then in order to see it correctly you need TV which covers this gamut, Rec.709, P3 etc. That's why video is graded on pro monitors (which cost big money) which are calibrated perfectly to specific gamut. If your home TV is "perfect" video will look 100% the same as on grading monitor, but this is almost never the case as home TVs out if box are really mess when it comes to accuracy:)
Go back too goole and read more:)

[musicvideos4k]

I know what you mean, but your HDR is far from being correct/optimal :)
Gamut is on the video not TV?
Go back too goole :)

And yet you are watching the "HDR" on a laptop window and in pictures. Read again where i said: fullscreen tv dynamic mode. The HDR is just fine, it's even better than the toning from the commercial hdr blu-ray, and more nits mastered.


Cheers.

[kolak]

Define better? Brighter, more contrast, warmer, colder? It's director who decides with colourist how movie looks and they give it a reference look based on reference screen viewing.
You can tweak your version as you want, but this is just for your pleasure. No one is going to put your version on Blu-ray :)
Also- it looks somehow on your TV, but on some else Tv it will look different as home TVs are far form being consistent (even if in theory the meant to be). That's why grading monitors cost 20K :)

[musicvideos4k]

Define better? Brighter, more contrast, warmer, colder? It's director who decides with colourist how movie looks and they give it a reference look based on reference screen viewing.
You can tweak your version as you want, but this is just for your pleasure. No one is going to put your version on Blu-ray :)
Also- it looks somehow on your TV, but on some else Tv it will look different as home TVs are far form being consistent (even if in theory the meant to be). That's why grading monitors cost 20K :)

HDR is high dynamic range, another curve. HDR makes SDR look like garbage. HDR expands everything, what are you talking about directors?

Do you think the director wants this movie to look like this :

http://i.imgur.com/LEhOX7k.jpg

Or like this?

http://i.imgur.com/wbDVHpW.jpg

Now without highlights compression and 3500 nits:

http://i.imgur.com/6osvLfE.jpg

See the sky? Notice anything?



Same Power Curve on both. See how SDR even artifacts? Do you even know why is that?

This HDR is being processed by MadVR. Just in case, software processing.

Figure out why Sony released the HDR version of "The Shallows" then... if the "director" was fine with the crappy SDR. Go and buy the HDR version and you will be surprised on how well mine looks. And double surprised since the HDR version looks complete the opposite as the SDR in toning, because HDR makes things look more real than crappy SDR technology.

More?

1000 nit MadVR processing, compressing highlights and Power Curve on 2.60:

HDR:
http://i.imgur.com/RwUg5Ix.jpg

SDR BT. 709 Curve:
http://i.imgur.com/0yPqmTw.jpg

I wonder if you even understand what HDR is about.

[kolak]

Read about whole process of making a movie, specially how it's graded. You may find it interesting.

Director wanted it to look as on original Blu-ray as this is done to a standard (Rec.709). When this was done there was no HDR. When time comes and studio finds money they will create HDR version from original assets and this will be again approved by the director and will most likely look noting like your HDR version :)
Your HDR just as HDR look, but it's nothing like REAL HDR. You have created it from SDR version, which has limited gamut and dynamic range. What you need is access to original assets (which have huge gamut an dynamic range) and then starting from this you create proper HDR master. Your version is just a quite poor simulation of possible real HDR master. If you like it, then fine- enjoy it, just don't forget how you created it (what was the source) :)

[nevcairiel]

If all you do is take a SDR video, "process" it into HDR, and then let madVR convert it back into SDR, then you didn't create HDR, you just created a new SDR video thats different. You could encode a SDR video file from that!

HDR is primarily about actually showing more information on your screen - a higher range of data, higher gamut and higher contrast. For that to be possible you actually need to set your screen in BT.2020 and HDR mode. Using a video player to convert it back to SDR won't give you "more information", it'll just give you different results.

[benwaggoner]

Exactly. None of the commercial HDR content I know of was created from 8-bit SDR compressed sources. It's almost always going back to at least a digital cinema master, which will use the P3 color space, or a negative scan, or some sort of camera RAW like file. And definitely at least 10-bit source, probably uncompressed (like DPX).

And it's another pass of creative tweaking and creative signoff. Different directors and cinematographers have very different preferences for how an HDR version looks. And you see different stylistic choices get made depending on whether it gets graded in HDR first and then SDR, or vise versa. Or graded for DCI first and then HDR, etcetera.

And there is no good programmatic way to grade an HDR, just as there isn't for SDR. These are different creative canvases, and thus different creative choices get made. Some scenes in the HDR of Man in the High Castle were darker than in the SDR, because 10-bits of the PQ curve allowed for a lot more visible detail in the shadow which Rec. 709 simply couldn't mathematically represent. And HDR can do a bright, blue sky, while an SDR the sky can be EITHER bright OR blue. Starting with a SDR grade, there's no way to know what the creatives would prefer.

Doing automated HDR is kind of like using "Vivid" mode on a TV. It can be impressive, but can also dramatically diverge from creative intent.

Read about whole process of making a movie, specially how it's graded. You may find it interesting.

Director wanted it to look as on original Blu-ray as this is done to a standard (Rec.709). When this was done there was no HDR. When time comes and studio finds money they will create HDR version from original assets and this will be again approved by the director and will most likely look noting like your HDR version :)
Your HDR just as HDR look, but it's nothing like REAL HDR. You have created it from SDR version, which has limited gamut and dynamic range. What you need is access to original assets (which has huge gamut an dynamic range) and then starting from this you create proper HDR master. Your version is just a quite poor simulation of possible real HDR master. If you like it, then fine- enjoy it :)

[musicvideos4k]

If all you do is take a SDR video, "process" it into HDR, and then let madVR convert it back into SDR, then you didn't create HDR, you just created a new SDR video thats different. You could encode a SDR video file from that!

HDR is primarily about actually showing more information on your screen - a higher range of data, higher gamut and higher contrast. For that to be possible you actually need to set your screen in BT.2020 and HDR mode. Using a video player to convert it back to SDR won't give you "more information", it'll just give you different results.

I'm actually astonished on the knowledge in that post, more coming from a doomer in "HDR" thread.

MadVR process HDR signal ( native ) only if you feed actual HDR to it, otherwise it doesn't even works. That explains to you what im feeding is actually HDR.

When MadVR process the HDR signal back to SDR you can select "display nits" to your pleasure and the processed image is "watchable" on a SDR display, giving you the "higher contrast and higher gamut" compared to the same video in Standard dynamic range and BT. 709 Curve and gamut.

I use MadVR since you can see the difference from miles away and that's what is for, showing HDR signal back to SDR with MadVR gives you the "new image" showing huge differences from the SDR version, yet again "the higher contrast, gamut and range".

You can also watch my HDR streams with the "process HDR with pixel shader math" or just "passthrough HDR signal to the TV" by using a calibrated TV preset for HDR ( white balances, contrast tweaks , etc ).

HDR is HDR, there's nothing more to it.

This image is processed again by MadVR to SDR, this allows you to see the higher contrast, gamut and range compared to the same scene in SDR with 709 curve and gamut: SDR is going to look weaker contrast, lower gamut and lower range. You can even notice it when you saturate both pictures, one gets saturated in a milisecond, the other does not. Not to mention the higher contrast in lights, details and range.

http://i.imgur.com/VlUwPnr.jpg

[musicvideos4k]

Exactly. None of the commercial HDR content I know of was created from 8-bit SDR compressed sources. It's almost always going back to at least a digital cinema master, which will use the P3 color space, or a negative scan, or some sort of camera RAW like file. And definitely at least 10-bit source, probably uncompressed (like DPX).

And it's another pass of creative tweaking and creative signoff. Different directors and cinematographers have very different preferences for how an HDR version looks. And you see different stylistic choices get made depending on whether it gets graded in HDR first and then SDR, or vise versa. Or graded for DCI first and then HDR, etcetera.

And there is no good programmatic way to grade an HDR, just as there isn't for SDR. These are different creative canvases, and thus different creative choices get made. Some scenes in the HDR of Man in the High Castle were darker than in the SDR, because 10-bits of the PQ curve allowed for a lot more visible detail in the shadow which Rec. 709 simply couldn't mathematically represent. And HDR can do a bright, blue sky, while an SDR the sky can be EITHER bright OR blue. Starting with a SDR grade, there's no way to know what the creatives would prefer.

Doing automated HDR is kind of like using "Vivid" mode on a TV. It can be impressive, but can also dramatically diverge from creative intent.

I don't care what you believe they "do". I do what i like, and is HDR. Tell me why it looks bad, then.
And what did you mean as "automated hdr" ? I process the HDR myself, what is automated HDR anyway?

[musicvideos4k]

Read about whole process of making a movie, specially how it's graded. You may find it interesting.

Director wanted it to look as on original Blu-ray as this is done to a standard (Rec.709). When this was done there was no HDR. When time comes and studio finds money they will create HDR version from original assets and this will be again approved by the director and will most likely look noting like your HDR version :)
Your HDR just as HDR look, but it's nothing like REAL HDR. You have created it from SDR version, which has limited gamut and dynamic range. What you need is access to original assets (which have huge gamut an dynamic range) and then starting from this you create proper HDR master. Your version is just a quite poor simulation of possible real HDR master. If you like it, then fine- enjoy it, just don't forget how you created it (what was the source) :)

Did you watch ANY of my movies in HDR? When you actually do and compare it to the HDR10 ( 1200 nits mastered ) movies, you will change your mind and apologize.

The movies you can buy are the best 4000 nits mastered ( dolby vision ) and not so many are even well done. The rest, are only HDR10.

What i do is up to 10k nits and you can see the higher range everywhere in my movies, i posted you how sky shows new clouds and you are talking about "higher masters" where you will see the SAME cloud i managed to show up in higher range and gamut.

Then... there's nothing more to it. It won't have another cloud that is not there, since that's how it was filmed even on the "higher master".

Blu Ray HDR are mastered in low nits, that's why you get an annoying bright picture, what i do is higher nits from where you get higher gamut , range and gamma curve to play with. Details are all there since the toning is the same the studios do.

You can't generate what is not there, in a movie HDR you see better image, range, contrast and gamut, making you see what you can't with the 709 curve, not things that are not actually there, unless it's another movie.

And it's completely obvious that an HDR movie mastered from the original source film will be best, what i do is HDR from SDR and i have never seen anybody doing it the way i do it. Sometimes i feel like this forum is full of crap, instead saying you like what i do you prefer to diminish the whole work with your comparisons with higher masters that nobody else do either on this forum or anywhere publicly.

Take care.

[nevcairiel]

I use MadVR since you can see the difference from miles away and that's what is for, showing HDR signal back to SDR with MadVR gives you the "new image" showing huge differences from the SDR version, yet again "the higher contrast, gamut and range"

But the key point that you are ignoring is that once madVR is done, the video is once again SDR. So you could just make a SDR video that looks just like the madVR output, without going through HDR in the first place.

[kolak]

He doesn't get it and he has no clue what he is actually doing. Pointless discussion. He makes best HDR video ( with huge gamut) in the world using Rec.709 masters watched with Dynamic picture setting on TV :D
His TV gamut is irrelevant as gamut is in video :D
He makes HDR version from SDR just to use madVR to go back to SDR:D
He lives is his own very bright world:D
He prefers look of HDR videos (even if it's not properly done HDR) and I do get this :)

[musicvideos4k]

But the key point that you are ignoring is that once madVR is done, the video is once again SDR. So you could just make a SDR video that looks just like the madVR output, without going through HDR in the first place.

No, you can't. The HDR processing expands the gamut and range, when MadVR outputs the "SDR" is actually from the HDR signal, you can't have the same output, ever. Because it simulates a Display Nits and the "signal" in SDR is going to look always different from 400 to 10000 nits and compressing, or not compressing highlights. You can have different "SDR output" even with changing the power curve on MadVR too. The image is going to show HDR imagery, because that's what it is for.

MadVR "simulates" the HDR TV with those presets. Read about it, you can feed MadVR with native HDR demos from Sony, LG, Samsung and it will look exactly as how it looks on any HDR TV with the "HDR to SDR signal".

When you choose the "HDR to SDR" you can even select the output GAMUT in BT. 2020 or DCI-P3. ( if original HDR feed has one or the other, by using MadVR display calibration and it will look the same gamut as original HDR )

The problem is you and the other guy doesn't know anything about HDR video or MadVR and you are both discussing without 2 basic things: Watch my movies first and know at least what MadVR does.

[musicvideos4k]

He doesn't get it and he has no clue what he is actually doing. Pointless discussion. He makes best HDR video ( with huge gamut) in the world using Rec.709 masters watched with Dynamic picture setting on TV :D
His TV gamut is irrelevant as gamut is in video :D
He makes HDR version from SDR just to use madVR to go back to SDR:D
He lives is his own very bright world:D
He prefers look of HDR videos (even if it's not properly done HDR) and I do get this :)

It's HDR signal processed by MadVR to be watchable on a PC Monitor ( SDR display ). It process the HDR signal, you can't see that kind of "SDR" or make that kind of "SDR" without MadVR processing an HDR signal first.

Download MadVR, feed on it the Sony Camp HDR demo ( native ) and when you make an SDR video to look like that, then let me know.

You are the one who doesn't knows anything about HDR.

You are the one who doesn't knows what i do because you didn't even watch any of my movies.

You are the one who doesn't know what MadVR does and you believe it gets you "SDR normal video you can even create it the same way"

You are the one that believes my HDR signal has "709 gamut". I transfer and expand the gamut, range and primaries/matrix.

You are the one who doesn't even knows what "GAMUT" is about either, from reading your posts.

Anyway, you are right it's pointless to discuss something with a monkey.

[musicvideos4k]

His TV gamut is irrelevant as gamut is in video :D


The TV has no gamuts on the display layers, only better "color" reproduction that differs from panel to panel. One video can look one way on a TV and different on other...is that fine? Well yes, because TV's can't have any "gamut".

"What they do is even cooler. LED backlights enhanced by quantum dots or nanocrystals can actually expand how many colors appear, and how rich they look. They can somewhat improve TVs' color with today's sources, but the main benefit won't be realized until wide color gamut content becomes more common over the next few years,"

Cheers kid.

[Groucho2004]

Anyway, you are right it's pointless to discuss something with a monkey.
Heading for another ban/strike, one can only hope. Besides, you have threatened about 10 times to never post here again (because everyone here is so stupid and doesn't understand you) - when do you think this is going to happen?

[musicvideos4k]

Heading for another ban/strike, one can only hope. Besides, you have threatened about 10 times to never post here again (because everyone here is so stupid and doesn't understand you) - when do you think this is going to happen?

Well, im reading people that does not watch any video i do and they are also saying TV's layers has gamuts on it, i also read videos doesn't have gamuts.

You are right, it's so stupid that the whole forum should be closed.

Who cares about bans on a forum like this? You can ban me a hundred times, it won't change the fact im reading stupid things.

And i have said i won't post again on the other topic, i came here to show what i do. But you are right once again, people on here doesn't even knows what gamut is about, it's pointless to discuss HDR.

[kolak]

It's HDR signal processed by MadVR to be watchable on a PC Monitor ( SDR display ). It process the HDR signal, you can't see that kind of "SDR" or make that kind of "SDR" without MadVR processing an HDR signal first.

Download MadVR, feed on it the Sony Camp HDR demo ( native ) and when you make an SDR video to look like that, then let me know.

You are the one who doesn't knows anything about HDR.

You are the one who doesn't knows what i do because you didn't even watch any of my movies.

You are the one who doesn't know what MadVR does and you believe it gets you "SDR normal video you can even create it the same way"

You are the one that believes my HDR signal has "709 gamut". I transfer and expand the gamut, range and primaries/matrix.

You are the one who doesn't even knows what "GAMUT" is about either, from reading your posts.

Anyway, you are right it's pointless to discuss something with a monkey.

You are starting with Rec.709 Blu-ray 4:2:0, 8bit fairly compressed footage. Can you explain me how are you expanding gamut? Do you have magic wand which creates additional colors? BD footage is graded to Rec.709 gamut and you can't just like this make Rec.2020 out of it (you can do opposite way). You have no clue about what madVR does, you think that when you say Rec.2020 then any source magically "gets" all colours in Rec.2020 space out of your BD source?
It's the same as trying to make 10bit out of 8bit (but even way more complicated)- you can't. You can add maybe 0.5 bit into depth, but that's about it. It will never be like real 10bit footage. Do you get it? Yo need high quality master to do HDR version with ice gamut. All what you do is making image look brighter and different than BD version. If you like ti this way then that's fine.

Opposite to you I actually worked on some of those Samsung/Sony HDR demos which you prise so much :)

I think you should be already banned.

[kolak]

Well, im reading people that does not watch any video i do and they are also saying TV's layers has gamuts on it, i also read videos doesn't have gamuts.

You are right, it's so stupid that the whole forum should be closed.

Who cares about bans on a forum like this? You can ban me a hundred times, it won't change the fact im reading stupid things.

And i have said i won't post again on the other topic, i came here to show what i do. But you are right once again, people on here doesn't even knows what gamut is about, it's pointless to discuss HDR.

What do you actually do?
Use a bit of software which someone else has written and does processing for you?
Where is your work? Have you written some clever tone mapping algorithm or something else for e.g. Rec.709 SDR to HDR "fake" conversion for source which have no good masters?

Tell me- maybe I can get you work at very good studio if you have great ideas and skills :) What I see so far is a kid making brighter videos :)

[kolak]

The TV has no gamuts on the display layers, only better "color" reproduction that differs from panel to panel. One video can look one way on a TV and different on other...is that fine? Well yes, because TV's can't have any "gamut".

Cheers kid.

It meant to have gamut described in one of the standards, so when you grade footage on reference monitor then it looks the same on your TV. All TVs in theory should look the same. This is the whole point of a standards. If you take good ones then you can match them very close. Bad one are simply crap.

What TV do you have?

If you haven't noticed HDR is also a standardised format and when you create content you have to adhere to it, otherwise your are a kid doing bright and colourful videos in own room.
Nothing wrong with it, but don't expect that people are going to adore and wow you for this :) There is nothing mathematically, visually, creatively amazing in your work, but if you enjoy it then have fun, just don't spam forum. Some people here actually have amazing knowledge and do some cool things. Don't forget that you use madVR which was created within help of this forum. If you don't care about people here then simply disappear from here.
Start new forum so you can find people who will adore you for your amazing work :)

[musicvideos4k]

You are starting with Rec.709 Blu-ray 4:2:0, 8bit fairly compressed footage. Can you explain me how are you expanding gamut? Do you have magic wand which creates additional colors? BD footage is graded to Rec.709 gamut and you can't just like this make Rec.2020 out of it (you can do opposite way). You have no clue about what madVR does, you think that when you say Rec.2020 then any source magically "gets" all colours in Rec.2020 space out of your BD source?
It's the same as trying to make 10bit out of 8bit (but even way more complicated)- you can't. You can add maybe 0.5 bit into depth, but that's about it. It will never be like real 10bit footage. Do you get it? Yo need high quality master to do HDR version with ice gamut. All what you do is making image look brighter and different than BD version. If you like ti this way then that's fine.

Opposite to you I actually worked on some of those Samsung/Sony HDR demos which you prise so much :)

I think you should be already banned.

Yes im Gandalf.

I won't even reply anymore on here, take care my friend. Keep on believing videos doesn't have gamut and TV's do.

When you actually watch any of my movies, enjoy them. And you will see a lot of "gamut" and "range" you are saying it doesn't have because... you say it (?). Cheers.

[Groucho2004]

If you haven't noticed HDR is also a standardised format and when you create content you have to adhere to it, otherwise your are a kid doing bright and colourful videos in own room.
That sums it up nicely, methinks. ;)

[musicvideos4k]

Opposite to you I actually worked on some of those Samsung/Sony HDR demos which you prise so much :)

I think you should be already banned.

LOL. WTF Im out of here.

[musicvideos4k]

That sums it up nicely, methinks. ;)

You didn't watch any of my videos either. You don't watch but you "think". Awesome forum here, people for sure enjoys reading.

[kolak]

Are you not bored repeating this?
People don't need to watch any of your videos. They can get HDR demo clip and create the same as you just by using madVR. Your videos are just a madVR processed, so there is not much YOURS there (including videos itself which are form the net).

Is this our website?
musicvideos4k.com

Do you charge money for watching your (read someone else stolen content)?

[musicvideos4k]

Are you not bored repeating this?
People don't need to watch any of your videos. They can get HDR demo clip and create the same as you just by using madVR. Your videos are just a madVR processed, so there is not much YOURS there (including videos itself which are form the net).

Is this our website?
musicvideos4k.com

Do you charge money for watching your (read someone else stolen content)?

LOL WTF. Yes kid , my videos doesn't need to be watched. Native HDR BT.2020 ST. 2084 can be pleasant watched by Jpeg images.

Please, what kind of work do you do on Sony? Bathroom cleaning?

[kolak]

Man, taking someone else content, making it crap HDR and than charging money for watching it is a crime. Just so you understand it.

[musicvideos4k]

Man, taking someone else content, making it crap HDR and than charging money for watching it is a crime. Just so you understand it.

What? I don't sell anything lol.

You said you work on Sony HDR videos and yet you say videos doesnt have gamut and yet you also said you can watch HDR content on a jpeg image.

That's the crime.

I can't believe i have to explain this with images and text for your little brain to understand.


Native SDR content feeding MadVR ( Does not turn on HDR at all, since what you feed is SDR )
http://i.imgur.com/8MIXo0Z.jpg


Native HDR content feeding MadVR ( Turns on HDR since what you feed is REAL HDR )
http://i.imgur.com/O77qh28.jpg


How old are you anyway? Do you understand now? Or this is not enough? Can you see the GAMUT? LOL.

I have made a video for your MORE UNDERSTANDING. Since it looks like you are a hard one.

This shows MadVR HDR processing feeding Native Avatar HDR stream.

*** Audio is out of sync due to the recording ***

First you see MadVR Converting to SDR display 3000 nits without compressing highlights.

At the second half of the video you see MadVR pass-through HDR content directly to the display, where you need HDR TV Preset to watch it.

https://youtu.be/rAY7zZvAW0k



Believe my friend, believe.

And please stop talking about you work on Sony. It makes you look really bad on here.

[kolak]

Can one of the moderators remove posts which have nothing to do with this thread please.

[musicvideos4k]

Can one of the moderators remove posts which have nothing to do with the thread please.

Remove yours? Did you watch the video? Do you understand now " Mr. I work On Sony" ? :devil:

[musicvideos4k]

Can one of the moderators remove posts which have nothing to do with this thread please.

Hey man!!! Sony Man... did you watch it or not?

Watch this one too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy8MMxgKJ-0

Isn't that HDR enough? Can't you see the "gamut" and "range" and improved image like 1000% from the SDR version? Tell me im really waiting on your spectacular opinion.:D

[kolak]

Looks amazing, have not seen such HDR so far.

[musicvideos4k]

Looks amazing, have not seen such HDR so far.

No you actually didn't because avatar is not made in HDR by your friends on Fox. Im sure you actually work for FOX too.
Im quite confused though, you said you did HDR videos for Sony and Samsung but some posts ago you didn't know how to even use FFMpeg to encode a simple 4K TIFF.

You are evil.:D

I confused you with another user, you are actually a guy that doesn't knows what he is doing on the entire thread. In one post you copy paste commands and on the others you "recommend" to people, but nobody saw what you do, at all.

Actually im surprised on the amazing placebo talking on this topic, you have made a lot of posts and shown... nothing. But you can actually say an HDR video doesn't have gamut on it.

Keep it on!

[Motenai Yoda]

Hey man!!! Sony Man... did you watch it or not?

Watch this one too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy8MMxgKJ-0

Isn't that HDR enough? Can't you see the "gamut" and "range" and improved image like 1000% from the SDR version? Tell me im really waiting on your spectacular opinion.:D

Do you know an HDR video on an SDR monitor/tv should look exactly the same as the SDR one?

Or that when converting from bt.709 to bt.2020 all colors should looks the same too?

What you're doing isn't 4k conversion but some sort of remastering which has nothing to do with 4k.

[kolak]

No you actually didn't because avatar is not made in HDR by your friends on Fox. Im sure you actually work for FOX too.
Im quite confused though, you said you did HDR videos for Sony and Samsung but some posts ago you didn't know how to even use FFMpeg to encode a simple 4K TIFF.

You are evil.:D

I confused you with another user, you are actually a guy that doesn't knows what he is doing on the entire thread. In one post you copy paste commands and on the others you "recommend" to people, but nobody saw what you do, at all.

Actually im surprised on the amazing placebo talking on this topic, you have made a lot of posts and shown... nothing. But you can actually say an HDR video doesn't have gamut on it.

Keep it on!


Hehehe- I did not even look at this video as it's pointless.
All what you do is use MadVR on some HDR demo clips- everyone can do it and they don't need your input for this. Simple as this. We all know what madVR can do, so stop repeating yourself.

Read comment above- did you know this? Do you know that these clips were not graded to 3K nits nor your TV is any near 3000 nits (more like 1000 or 1500 if it's a top range). What you should use in madVR is 1000nits, so conversion is done more correctly.

Stop this nonsense- told you no one is going prise your videos as everyone can reproduce them just by using madVR.
All what you do is play HDR clips with madVR with conversion back to some oversaturated/contrasted SDR. Told you- if you think they look better than Rec.709 masters then fine- they will make way bigger wow factor on average Joe, but this is irrelevant here. You can get very similar look even without madVR- just bump up everything on your TV :)
You can load clip to Premiere, Resolve etc and grade it to such a look. You don't even have a HDR TV do you?

Get out of your room and grab bit of fresh air- it will do good for you :)
Shoot something by yourself, grade nicely and than shows us.

[musicvideos4k]

Hehehe- I did not even look at this video as it's pointless.
All what you do is use MadVR on some HDR demo clips- everyone can do it and they don't need your input for this. Simple as this. We all know what madVR can do, so stop repeating yourself.

Read comment above- did you know this? Do you know that these clips were not graded to 3K nits nor your TV is any near 3000 nits (more like 1000 or 1500 if it's a top range). What you should use in madVR is 1000nits, so conversion is done more correctly.

Stop this nonsense- told you no one is going prise your videos as everyone can reproduce them just by using madVR.
All what you do is play HDR clips with madVR with conversion back to some oversaturated/contrasted SDR. Told you- if you think they look better than Rec.709 masters then fine- they will make way bigger wow factor on average Joe, but this is irrelevant here. You can get very similar look even without madVR- just bump up everything on your TV :)
You can load clip to Premiere, Resolve etc and grade it to such a look. You don't even have a HDR TV do you?

Get out of your room and grab bit of fresh air- it will do good for you :)
Shoot something by yourself, grade nicely and than shows us.

hehehehe You really have no idea on what i do right?

You are actually interested as you are trying to figure out what i do and you think im using some HDR demos from Avatar? Are you kidding me right?

I have graded Avatar up to 10k nits. You can even see it on the left MadVR measuring nits on the remaster, which is made by me. Not by FOX, as Avatar doesn't exists on "HDR DEMOS".

Now to your "recommendation" about the "HDR Demos" (?) to play in 1000nits because you think this is not graded up to 10K:

1000 nits MadVR. Image all wrong, complete over exposed.

http://i.imgur.com/cP2YdJX.jpg

3500 nits MadVR. Not over exposed.

http://i.imgur.com/1OEjiDD.jpg


You really have no idea about what i do.

You think im using Fox Demos. :D

See the color gamut as well? Compare it with SDR Avatar as well. It's another world.

And stop talking about rooms and kids. You are the kid in the room now.

[musicvideos4k]

Do you know an HDR video on an SDR monitor/tv should look exactly the same as the SDR one?

Or that when converting from bt.709 to bt.2020 all colors should looks the same too?

What you're doing isn't 4k conversion but some sort of remastering which has nothing to do with 4k.

Lol. MadVR takes HDR input and it changes it up to your tastes with the nits you give it and the pure power curve you give it. You get BT. 2020 or DCI-P3 Gamut depending on the content you feed on it, my Avatar Grading is BT. 2020.

Please check the above images and the gamut/nits. Compare the same scene with the "SDR 709 Avatar"... do you want me to post it? It looks like complete garbage in comparison.

[kolak]

There is only 1 problem here- in order to do it you need Avatar ungraded master in at least some DPX form, but really ideally EXRs. 2nd problem- you need Dolby 10K monitor in order to judge HDR image. Rec.2020? Do you have a display which covers it, so you can judge ideal look?
Do you understand that when you grade it has to be to a standard and monitor which you look at has to meet this standard and be calibrated to it, otherwise is just "for you/your display"?
Do you have both? If not this is a still just a play with some video to make it look "better".

[kolak]

Lol. MadVR takes HDR input and it changes it up to your tastes with the nits you give it and the pure power curve you give it. You get BT. 2020 or DCI-P3 Gamut depending on the content you feed on it, my Avatar Grading is BT. 2020.

Please check the above images and the gamut/nits. Compare the same scene with the "SDR 709 Avatar"... do you want me to post it? It looks like complete garbage in comparison.

Magic word- "taste" :) We are not talking here about taste, but first about some processes which follow some rules. Taste is later and 7 out of 10 people may not like your taste, they may like it more warm, less saturate, less contrasty etc etc. This is what director with colourist decides on. If you want to change it fine, but this is purely for your joy. Your version my look way better to the eye (just purely by fact it's brighter) than Rec.709, but this is bit different thing. The whole point of HDR introduction is to make it look better and use capabilities of todays displays.

[musicvideos4k]

Magic word- "taste" :) We are not talking here about taste, but first about some processes which follow some rules. Taste is later and 7 out of 10 people may not like your taste, they may like it more warm, less saturate, less contrasty etc etc. This is what director with colourist decides on. If you want to change it fine, but this is purely for your joy. Your version my look way better to the eye (just purely by fact it's brighter) than Rec.709, but this is bit different thing. The whole point of HDR introduction is to make it look better and use capabilities of todays displays.

You just don't get it. It's not a normal process grading, second i don't need tastes, i just transfer the same color toning expanding the gamut, exactly what the movie studios should do instead of "re-grading" with "new colors" changing the toning of the original film to "HDR specs".

That's why i decided to do this, i don't need tastes or super Dolby monitors because i keep the same toning, but expanded range and gamut.

For example, check the flowers on these 2 shots.

Zoom in, both are 1080p. One is original SDR and second is my process in BT. 2020 grading.

Original 709 flowers are complete garbage in color gamut/palette.

SDR:
http://i.imgur.com/MJlC8NI.jpg


HDR with MadVR on 3500 nits:
http://i.imgur.com/DJPkSyc.jpg

Now flowers looks higher gamut/palette. You can even use your TV presets and find more gamut everywhere in the movie, and more detailed, since it has more gamut.

You can use any MadVR settings you want. The gamut is different and range is amplified as it's supposed to be.

And it doesn't looks bad, as this movie has been tested by a lot of people on way different TV's , monitors and even mobile phones, it looks just fine, but with better color ouput.

To see "real 2020" you do need better displays, but you can see the color is much better and has nothing to do with what you believe im doing here.