HEVC coming to devices

[CruNcher]

Then HEVC better gain a foothold within those 2-3 years, otherwise AV1 might displace HEVC or specifically MPEG-LA and co. as video standard-setter.

We might see a Split OTT/IPTV/HTTP for AOM and OTS/Broadcast will mostly continue with MPEG like we are used too though with the fear of some that OTS/Broadcast deprecating over time and losing more and more MPEG will have a hard time in the future but how they reacted beforehand as IP givers and splitting themselves now even everyone fears that it's gonna fall apart.

Also who knows if we wont see a very massive change even away from MPEG like algorithmic handling of video even with complete new leaders nobody yet expect or thinks off ;)

We saw V-Nova coming out of nowhere with their Hierarchical Layer widening the SVC and FGM concept to any data.

And we surely not at the End we are just at the beginning i would say ;)

Who knows if MPEG will still exist if everyone starts on their own stabling everyone in it's back, like we saw with HEVC Advance on the business layer ;)

And now ASICs aren't the Primary King anymore and more and more taking FPGAS into account especialy for their Cloud Structures and adapting Intel even Progressively taking the upgradeabilty of TVs as a future new business concept into account, nothing is impossible.


And there is a aspect nobody really want's to talk really about and that is how World Economic changes and Politics will change the overall Research conditions that will impact MPEG in one way or another as well internationaly.

[hajj_3]

Most modern smartphones sold in the last 3 years have HEVC hardware decoders and encoders. Most of the time, however, the drivers to turn this capability on were left off of the device. But these device manufacturers could easily push out a device driver update to turn that capability on, if they wanted to.

a huge portion of chinese phones don't even get a single update not even bug fix updates. There's no chance they would add support to phones already on the market.

[CruNcher]

Often makes no sense the EOL of most Chinese Devices is like bough today EOL in 6 month new Hardware revision time to market is fast, i mean time to "actual" market ;)

[x265_Project]

The UHD Alliance just announced a new HDR standard for mobile devices... Mobile HDR Premium... http://www.soundandvision.com/content/hdr-small-screen#K87remjrzTmTiy8r.01
As today, HDR is synonymous with HEVC, you can be sure that mobile devices that meet this new standard will support HEVC HDR natively (hardware HEVC decoders that are available to all mobile app developers).

[CruNcher]

We saw it coming with LGs first release and announcements anyways now its confirmed that the others also see it as a viable target, so it doesn't really surprises another Logo and things that where sold before without the intention to marketize on them become Gold now and in the end even more expensive (the logo stands for Premium you need it to be existing anymore being not premium is like being dead) ;)

[sneaker_ger]

As today, HDR is synonymous with HEVC
Youtube uses VP9 for HDR.

[x265_Project]

Youtube uses VP9 for HDR.
True. You can decode VP9 in software on a sufficiently powerful PC, but for battery powered or embedded devices you need hardware decoders, and FAR more devices (TVs, IP set-top boxes like Roku and FireTV, mobile phones) support hardware HEVC decoding than VP9. With HEVC everywhere and VP9 only supported on a limited # of devices, I don't expect many content services (other than YouTube and Netflix) to either choose VP9 over HEVC, or to support both VP9 and HEVC.

[Gser]

Just bought a new Samsung 4k HDR tv. Seems most 2016 4k tvs support playback of HEVC and VP9 internally. And as a side note cable tv is becoming hilariously redundant with all the streaming services available these days.

[x265_Project]

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-answers-iphone-storage-woes-with-smaller-photos-videos/

[bstrobl]

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-answers-iphone-storage-woes-with-smaller-photos-videos/

Something tells me that the HEVC licensors are all in a minor panic and are now trying to push HEVC where they can before AV1 is complete and gets a major foothold. Mac OS High Sierra will bring HEVC coding even to older Macs, which without hardware acceleration will eat into battery life. Then again, it might get people to upgrade their old Macs :sly:.

[GTPVHD]

http://blog.streamingmedia.com/2017/05/velos-media-hevc-patent-pool.html

"Third HEVC Patent Pool Launches With Ericsson, Panasonic, Qualcomm, Sharp & Sony"

HEVC is pretty much a dead format with the licensing and royalties mess.

[benwaggoner]

http://blog.streamingmedia.com/2017/05/velos-media-hevc-patent-pool.html

"Third HEVC Patent Pool Launches With Ericsson, Panasonic, Qualcomm, Sharp & Sony"

HEVC is pretty much a dead format with the licensing and royalties mess.

Reality disagrees. In the important HEVC news this week:
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/06/macos-high-sierra-delivers-advanced-technologies-for-storage-video-and-graphics/

High-Efficiency Video Coding
Support for industry-standard HEVC (H.265) enables video streaming and playback of 4K video files at incredible quality that are also up to 40 percent smaller than with the current H.264 standard.1 With HEVC, Apple is enabling high-quality video streaming on networks where only HD streaming was previously possible, while hardware acceleration on the new iMac and MacBook Pro deliver incredibly fast and power-efficient HEVC encoding and editing.

Getting Apple on board is huge.

Plus HEVC with High Efficiency Image File Format (HEIF (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_Format)) may actually be the first format to give JPEG a serious run for its money as the default image format.

HEVC is dying like capitalism :).

[LigH]

HEVC is dying like capitalism :).

:scared: You ... you ... you ... communist!!! :devil:

[Motenai Yoda]

Someone can provide an iphone hevc video?

[iwod]

http://blog.streamingmedia.com/2017/05/velos-media-hevc-patent-pool.html

"Third HEVC Patent Pool Launches With Ericsson, Panasonic, Qualcomm, Sharp & Sony"

HEVC is pretty much a dead format with the licensing and royalties mess.

I am guessing. Apple negotiate a deal that is better then what we know on paper. 25M to MPEG-LA, 50M to HEVC Advance Group, Unknown to Technicolor and Velos Media.

For one, Technicolor and all the members of Velos Media were originally within the MPEG-LA Group.

And being Apple, i dont think they are paying 100M / year on HEVC when they were originally paying 5M on AVC.

And yes, like benwaggoner have said. I am not sure HUGE is even enough to describe it. NO other players in the industry can match this, with the adoption rate of iOS 11 you will likely have 400M Active devices by the end of next year that is capable of playing HEVC video.

I wish all these HEVC group will sit down and talk. Just why should HEVC be 20x more expensive then AVC?

[Motenai Yoda]

Indeed Millions of devices like samsung's, lg's, sony's, huawei/honor's, motorola's can already decode 1080p hevc files
samsung's s5 was the first smartphone with hevc support 3 years ago

[SeeMoreDigital]

.... samsung's s5 was the first smartphone with hevc support 3 years agoIndeed, my OnePlus X smart phone is around 2 years old and it's able to play 1080p HEVC video (placed within the mkv container) pretty well.

I've not spent any time checking which HEVC profiles it supports though ;)

[x265_Project]

Did anyone notice this? https://www.microsoft.com/en-US/store/p/hevc-video-extension/9n4wgh0z6vhq
The specs are a contradictory, first saying it's supported on Intel Kaby Lake processors, and then saying ARM is required.

[sneaker_ger]

Didn't Windows 10 already have HEVC support since the beginning albeit only through 3rd party DXVA? What does the HEVC extension add?

[GTPVHD]

http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/Editorial/Featured-Articles/The-HEVC-Soap-Opera-Keeping-Track-of-Players-and-Costs-119090.aspx

If Velos’ IP owners really believe their own valuation statements, then HEVC licensees could be looking at another $40 million royalty cap, if there’s a cap at all, and those publishing HEVC content could face a new set of fears about potential royalties. That’s on top of the $60 million+ already in place, plus the $9.75 million+ many are paying for H.264. All this is before any royalty imposed by Technicolor, which also has not published its rates. While the Velos group appears to incorporate the last of the HEVC IP holdouts (which is a good thing), the total cost for HEVC could be over $100 million/year.

Yeah, Apple could be dumb and pay that kind of stupid money since they have plenty of money, but a small company could never afford paying licensing and royalties to all 3 patent pools.

[nevcairiel]

Didn't Windows 10 already have HEVC support since the beginning albeit only through 3rd party DXVA? What does the HEVC extension add?

That is correct. Windows 10 had a HEVC hardware decoder based on Media Foundation all along. I can only imagine this extensions is some API for store apps to directly reference, or something.

[x265_Project]

I am guessing. Apple negotiate a deal that is better then what we know on paper. 25M to MPEG-LA, 50M to HEVC Advance Group, Unknown to Technicolor and Velos Media.

For one, Technicolor and all the members of Velos Media were originally within the MPEG-LA Group.

And being Apple, i dont think they are paying 100M / year on HEVC when they were originally paying 5M on AVC.

And yes, like benwaggoner have said. I am not sure HUGE is even enough to describe it. NO other players in the industry can match this, with the adoption rate of iOS 11 you will likely have 400M Active devices by the end of next year that is capable of playing HEVC video.

I wish all these HEVC group will sit down and talk. Just why should HEVC be 20x more expensive then AVC?

Big companies like Apple already have patent cross-license agreements with many companies, including those companies that participated in developing HEVC. They don't necessarily need to take an HEVC patent license through a patent licensing body, like MPEG LA. If they do license through a licensing body, the relative value of patents that they already have a license to (through other agreements) is subtracted from the fees they would have to pay.

In the end, it's the device manufacturers that pay codec patent royalties. HEVC is quickly becoming mandatory for any device to remain competitive, both for video and for photo/image compression. App and service developers don't have to worry about HEVC device patent royalties when they call on the native platform capabilities, like the core video libraries in iOS 11, MacOS High Sierra, or Apple's tvOS.

By my calculations (from available data), roughly 825 million iPhones, 185 million iPads, and 150 million Macs will support the new platform updates this fall... more than 1 Billion devices. And of course, all new Apple devices from this point forward will have full HEVC and HEIF encode/decode hardware support.

HEIF photo compression alone is more than enough reason to support HEVC on new mobile devices. HEIF is a massive upgrade over JPEG, PNG or GIF. 2.4x more efficient (on average) than JPEG, and this gets multiplied by another 2x or more when you shoot a series of photos of the same scene (burst mode). HEIF uses HEVC video profiles, so 10 bits/pixel is going to be fairly universal, and high dynamic range is no problem. You'll be able to edit an HEIF photo non-destructively, cropping and color correcting while keeping the original image data intact. Your 128 GB iPhone will now have the equivalent of 200GB of storage, or more. HEIF has no serious competition, and so I can't see any intelligent smartphone manufacturer trying to save a few dollars while not keeping pace with Apple on this.

[IgorC]

HEIF photo compression alone is more than enough reason to support HEVC on new mobile devices. HEIF is a massive upgrade over JPEG, PNG or GIF. 2.4x more efficient (on average) than JPEG

Was there any study which confirms this 2.4x compression gain over JPEG?

I remember that HEIF had better PSNR than JPEG 2.4x.
http://phenix.it-sudparis.eu/jct/doc_end_user/current_document.php?id=7292

However visually HEIF is 1.4-1.65x more efficient than JPEG according to this study

https://jpeg.org/downloads/aic/wg1n73041_icip_2016_grand_challenge.pdf


HEIF has no serious competition
It is a big question wheter HEIF will see any meaningful adoption in light of fact that JPEG's patents have expired several years ago.

There are some possibilites of Daala(or even AV1?) image profiles.
So a competition is always there.

P.S. Apple's support of HEVC (standard since 2013) in 2017 when AV1 will be frozen in the same year ... it's hard to call an innovation.
All my mobile devices and smartvs in both appartments support HEVC so calling Apple supporting it a "huge breakthrough" is a joke.

[LigH]

Who cares about PSNR (with widely known academic fail samples) in times of further SSIM modifications? After all, subjective quality can only be rated seriously with a subjective comparison = ABX test with hundreds of participants... ;)

And efficiency is no guarantee for wide acceptance. I was very impressed of LuRaWave for a long time, but never saw it getting supported without a plugin.

[x265_Project]

https://petapixel.com/2017/09/28/gopro-unveils-hero6-black-4k-60fps-video-new-gp1-chip/

Camera
Sensor 1 x CMOS
Pixel Gross 12 MP
Effective Pixels Not specified by manufacturer

Optics
Fixed Focus Yes

Recording
Recording Media microSD/HC/XC
Video Format 3840 x 2880 at 24, 25, 30 fps (60, 78 Mbps MP4)
3840 x 2160p at 24, 25, 30, 50, 60 fps (60, 78 Mbps MP4)
2704 x 2028p at 24, 25, 30, 50, 60 fps (MP4)
2704 x 1520p at 24, 25, 30, 50, 60, 100, 120 fps (MP4)
1920 x 1440p at 24, 25, 30, 50, 60 fps (MP4)
1920 x 1080p at 24, 25, 30, 50, 60, 100, 120, 240 fps
1280 x 720 at 50, 60 fps (MP4)
Aspect Ratio 16:9 4:3
Still Image Resolution RAW: 12 Megapixel
JPEG: 12 Megapixel
Channels 2.0-Channel Stereo
Audio Format AAC, WAV

Display
Display Type LCD
Touchscreen Yes
Screen Size 2"
Status Display Yes
Exposure Control
Burst Photo 30 Photos / 1 Second

Features
Image Stabilization Digital
Waterproof Depth Rating 33.0' / 10.0 m (Camera)
White Balance Modes Not specified by manufacturer
Built-In Mic Yes
Built-In Speaker Yes
Wi-Fi Yes
Input/Output Connectors
Outputs 1 x Micro-HDMI (Type-D)
Microphone Input Yes
Headphone Jack No

[LigH]

Petter H. will probably order one, I could imagine ... no, I will not explain who I mean; as a small hint, he also uses 80 MPx photo cameras.

[TomV]

The dominoes continue to fall...

Galaxy S9 and Galaxy S9+ support HEVC video recording (https://www.sammobile.com/news/galaxy-s9-series-support-video-recording-in-hevc-format/)

4K60P 10 bit recording

HDR playback

[Bello]

Most smartphones can't hardware decode hevc so if i record a video on my phone in hevc and send it via whatsapp to a friend then they probably can't view it. Also i don't think youtube allows you to upload videos that are recorded in hevc, not sure about facebook or twitter.

May be which size of video you are trying to send your friends via WhatsApp it too large or not meet with WhatsApp sending file requirement because WhatsApp only allow you to share more then 5mb files so may be that's why your friends are not watch the video perfectly but you can increase this limit by using this WhatsApp Plus modified application which allow you to share more 60mb files without any issue.

App details you can check here:https://gbapps.net/

[benwaggoner]

May be which size of video you are trying to send your friends via WhatsApp it too large or not meet with WhatsApp sending file requirement because WhatsApp only allow you to share more then 5mb files so may be that's why your friends are not watch the video perfectly but you can increase this limit by using this WhatsApp Plus modified application which allow you to share more 60mb files without any issue.

App details you can check here:https://gbapps.net/
This thread is years-old. Tik Tok and other services have long since added support for HEVC .mp4 file upload, and it's been the default video capture codec on iOS and most Android devices for several years now.