HEVC coming to devices [Archive] - Page 2

NikosD

7th August 2015, 08:37

Nop there is also the Movies app

btw I'm with sneaker_ger

You obviously don't have Win 10 installed and you have never tried even older versions of this app in Win 8.x

That app is called "Movies & TV" in Win 10, it's the older "Video" movie from Xbox ported to Win 8.x and of course it uses EVR only.

So, your comment didn't add anything useful.

BTW, I'm with me.

Because when you buy Win 10 right here, right now you don't have support of HEVC - the way I described it in my previous post.

I can't predict the future if Microsoft fixes the bug - if it's a bug - or changes its mind regarding broader HEVC support.

vood007

7th August 2015, 21:53

from http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install/has-microsoft-playready-3-broken-windows-10-hevc/8a17d615-5d0d-410d-8d18-6e951f108d11?auth=1

about HEVC in Win10 RTM:

Initially we included HEVC (H.265) software decode in Windows 10 pre-release for Windows for PC and phone. We made a late decision to limit HEVC support to devices that had hardware support. As HEVC is very computationally complex, this will provide a more consistent experience.

Although there are limited devices in the market today with HEVC hardware support (e.g., NVidia GTX960), this is likely to change soon.

The list of supported codecs for Windows 10 can be found here: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/xaml/mt282148.aspx.

NikosD

7th August 2015, 22:08

Thank you very much for the link.

What a stupid answer!

They enable HEVC even in hybrid systems like mine with iGPU HD4600 and they don't enable it for example to Sandy Core i7 or Ivy Core i7 which can decode HEVC in SW a lot faster than I can do it with HD4600.

Also if they cared so much about HW decoding of HEVC, they should provide a DXVA2 decoder or at least a D3D11 DirectShow decoder.

Instead of that, they provide only HW acceleration for MediaFoundation and D3D11.

Non sense.

Zebulon84

7th August 2015, 23:14

I guess with only HW decode they don't have the same patents issues : it's paid by the hardware manufacturer, while they would have to pay the patents if it was decoded by software.

Motenai Yoda

7th August 2015, 23:25

I don't get if they enable both hw and sw hevc decoder or only the hw decoder, if so how u can decode it with your hd4600?

the feeds thing is a good point IIRC was yet suggested

sneaker_ger

7th August 2015, 23:33

if so how u can decode it with your hd4600?
There has to be a DXVA decoder available, not necessarily pure ASIC like Nvidia GTX 960. Intel, AMD and Nvidia offer hybrid (software on CPU and GPU) decoders for some GPUs (hd4600). Windows does not distinguish between ASIC and hybrid. At least that's how I understand it.

NikosD

8th August 2015, 06:05

I don't get if they enable both hw and sw hevc decoder or only the hw decoder, if so how u can decode it with your hd4600?

When Win 10 detects a DXVA HEVC decoder device (Video accelerator for HEVC) it allows the use of MS MFT HEVC decoder in both modes - SW and HW.

The MS MFT HEVC decoder is both a SW and HW decoder.

For my HD 4600, Intel's drivers install - as sneaker_ger already posted - a HW accelerator which is a hybrid one and it works with GPU shaders.

It doesn't matter if you have a hybrid or pure HW HEVC decoder, I can use the MS MFT HEVC decoder normally.

BUT for me and everyone else on this planet, even one with a pure HW HEVC decoder like 960 GTX, is impossible to use the HW acceleration of MS MFT HEVC decoder in real playback.

Because it uses D3D11 and not DXVA2 and MediaFoundation instead of DirectShow.

The HW acceleration of MS MFT HEVC decoder is useful only for benchmarking with DXVA Checker in "Decode Benchmark" mode which is a renderless mode.

nussman

8th August 2015, 18:39

You keep on telling this, but I still can Not believe it.
Why they should make an decoder that can not Be used for playback?
Maybe there is a bug somewhere but I am sure playback will work with MediaFoundation player ...

NikosD

8th August 2015, 18:45

Because they are believers like you.

They believe that someone will build that MediaFoundation player that could work with D3D11, because MS players don't.

I suggest you to stop believing and do some tests instead.

nussman

8th August 2015, 19:04

We will see ...
Seems like you believe in DXVA Checker, but Decoders are not built for this useful tool only.

NikosD

8th August 2015, 19:11

Never mind...You don't know what I'm talking about, but you had the courage to admit it in my thread that you don't understand a word of what I'm saying.

That's good.

But if you don't understand something and you are interested in that, it would be better to read about it before you say your opinion.

nussman

8th August 2015, 19:16

Still don't know how you figured out that HEVC Decoder is not using DXVA2?
Maybe you can try to explain it once again?

NikosD

8th August 2015, 19:44

Because it's a D3D11 decoder only.

You can see that using DXVA Checker and the D3D11 modes under the MS MFT HEVC decoder.

The next DXVA Checker version will have more detailed attributes for the decoders, displaying DXVA modes supported even without checking the file - for MFT decoders.

DirectShow decoders are all DXVA2 only.

hajj_3

8th August 2015, 20:18

AMD's newer gpu's are getting hardware decode support for HEVC on linux soon: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=VDPAU-HEVC-AMDGPU

Intel's HD 530 gpu which is in their new skylake processors has full hardware decode of hevc now: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9483/intel-skylake-review-6700k-6600k-ddr4-ddr3-ipc-6th-generation/4 Intel's gpu also has partial hardware support for decoding VP9 video (using programmable shaders). We will likely get full hardware encode/decode support for VP9 in their 2016 intel chips which are currently codenamed Kaby Lake and will still use the 14nm process.

hi3516a

27th August 2015, 16:50

I copy some specification here:

HEVC H.265 encoding board
Video Input HDMI 1.4a,HDCP 1.4
Ethernet 10M/100M/1000M Base
Compression H.264/MJPEG/H.265
Resolution 1080P(1920×1080)/720P(1280×720)/D1(704×576)/VGA(640*480)/QVGA(32
0×240)
Frame Rate Main Stream 1920×1080(1 ~ 60fps), 1280×720(1 ~ 60fps)
Sub Stream D1/VGA/QVGA(1 ~ 60fps)
Bit Rate 32KB ~16Mbps, support VBR, CBR
Data Storage Video record, Picture format
Network Protocol RTSP、HTTP、DHCP
Audio io Mic & Speaker
Video Out Buffered CVBS
UART 3
USB 4
SD CARD 1
SPI 1
4G Module(Option) U8300W(USB I/F, support LTE-TDD, LTE-FDD, TD-SCDMA, UMTS, EVDO,
EDGE, GPRS, GSM, CDMA)
WIFI Module(Option) RL-UM02SP(USB I/F, 2.4G/5.8G, 802.11n 2XMIMO)
I Video Server Support
Power Supply DC7~17V
Power Consumption <4W
Working Environment -20°C~+55°C , Less than 90% RH
Dimensions 74 x 77 mm

SeeMoreDigital

27th August 2015, 18:17

Out of interest, has anybody here got a media playback device fitted with a Sigma Designs SMP8756/8 ARM A/V decoding chip-set?

Cheers

pieter3d

2nd September 2015, 16:34

Neat, I guess. Can you encode some clips with it and post them here? Will be interesting to see what HEVC tools it actually supports.

NikosD

6th September 2015, 05:43

benwaggoner

7th September 2015, 22:11

It's confirmed that Skylake supports 8K HEVC 8bit decoding in HW here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1737321#post1737321) and the first BluRay 4K is out from Samsung, supporting 10bit HEVC and HDR.

You can read more here (http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/213396-samsung-launches-first-the-worlds-first-4k-blu-ray-player)

Not quite yet on UHD Blu-ray:
"The player should hit US shores in early 2016 and cost “under $500,” though we don’t have an exact price yet."

It's remarkable how much of a lead OTT services have had over optical and broadcast for UHD and now HDR. Netflix, Amazon and others launched streaming-to-SmartTV UHD in 2014. And Amazon launched streaming HDR in June this year.

sneaker_ger

17th September 2015, 20:20

Looks like upcoming (new) Amazon Fire TV will have HEVC main10, though limited to 2160p30.

smok3

17th September 2015, 21:17

adobe also blurped something about HEVC (in upcoming cloudy premiere)
http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2015/09/premiere-pro-cc-ibc.html

smok3

4th December 2015, 14:06

adobe also blurped something about HEVC (in upcoming cloudy premiere)
http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2015/09/premiere-pro-cc-ibc.html

And it is here, seems more than just good (and the "good" preset is also surprisingly fast). Any clues who is behind this one?

benwaggoner

4th December 2015, 21:54

And it is here, seems more than just good (and the "good" preset is also surprisingly fast). Any clues who is behind this one?
There are no hints about encoder vendor that MediaInfo could find.

In my quick initial test, it didn't have the "feel" of x265, at least now how I configure it. Controls are similar to the Main Concept codecs in the Adobe suite, but no 2-pass or quality-limited encoding.

It writes out the intermediate video file as .mkv before muxing into .mp4, which is odd.

sneaker_ger

5th December 2015, 00:15

Looks like Nvidia will release a refresh of the mobile Geforce GTX 965M based on GM206 in early 2016, i.e. it should have the same HEVC capabilities as the GTX 950 and GTX 960. (main and main10 profile, 4kp60 decoding) Official announcement during CES Las Vegas. (source (German) (http://www.notebookcheck.com/Nvidia-Update-der-Geforce-GTX-965M-Ti-Anfang-2016.155377.0.html))

hajj_3

11th December 2015, 23:32

adobe premiere pro got h265 editing support added in the latest update (CC 2015.1 9.1.0) which was released on dec 1st.

sneaker_ger

3rd April 2016, 13:37

I just noticed the Samsung UBD-K8500 UltraHD Blu-Ray player's manual lists HEVC Main 4:2:2 10 profile compatibility which is unexpected.

benwaggoner

3rd April 2016, 17:57

I just noticed the Samsung UBD-K8500 UltraHD Blu-Ray player's manual lists HEVC Main 4:2:2 10 profile compatibility which is unexpected.
I have one of those players. I'll try to make a test stream and validate playback.

Not that any human being can resolve >4:2:0 at 3840x2160p. That's the same color detail as 1080p 4:4:4!

GrandAdmiralThrawn

8th April 2016, 15:05

I just tried 10-bit HEVC decoding on Win10, MPC-HC x64, Skylake platforms.

Interestingly, HD Graphics 520 seems to support MAIN10 via DXVA2, while HD Graphics 515 doesn't, despite having the same amount of shaders and only a very slightly lower clock rate.

HD Graphics 520 in DXVAChecker:

http://wp.xin.at/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/elitebook820g3-dxvachecker-hd520.png

And here is HD Graphics 515 (Core m5-6Y54) with missing MAIN10 support:

http://wp.xin.at/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/elite-x2-1012-g1-dxvachecker-hd515.png

Frankly, I don't quite understand the difference between DXVA2 and DXVA2/D3D11 yet, but it seems MPC-HC can use it (it says it's playing in "HW" on HD Graphics 520 with HEVC activated for DXVA2 native):

http://wp.xin.at/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/elitebook820g3-mpchc-dxva2-options.png

The performance differences aren't too great though, see the next screenshot where I've put CPU usage with HW accelerated playback over the regular one in a different color:

http://wp.xin.at/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/elitebook820g3-mpchc-load-combined.png
(Blue = CPU only, Red = DXVA2 native, overlay isn't peeerfectly aligned, but yeah)

It'd be really nice if they would activate this for the 515 as well, as the CPUs are slower. At least a little bit could be freed up..

iwod

10th April 2016, 11:39

sneaker_ger

10th April 2016, 11:49

Skylake 10 bit HEVC is CPU/GPU hybrid only. Uses lots of power and is still too slow for some UltraHD material. Kaby Lake will be fixed function.

hajj_3

20th April 2016, 09:51

Interesting, One of the selling point of Kaby Lake ( Next iteration of Skylake ) was to support HW HEVC 10 bit decoding. If Skylake has it, then why bother with Kaby. ( Only thing new in Kaby would be integrated USB 3.1 wave 2 )

kaby lake supports 10bit hardware decoding of h265/vp9. Native hdmi 2.0a with HDCP 2.2, native usb 3.1 and native thunderbolt 3.

Quite a big upgrade for connectivity and video.

GTPVHD

19th May 2016, 16:03

http://i.imgur.com/A3cDAFA.png

Nvidia Pascal GPU family, first to support fixed function HEVC Main12 hardware decoding on discrete graphics cards.

NikosD

7th December 2016, 10:44

PowerDVD is the first SW certified for Ultra HD Blu-ray for PC:
http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/powerdvd-and-hitachi-lg-will-offer-first-ultra-hd-blu-ray-playback-for-pc.html

Jamaika

7th December 2016, 11:34

Everything was great only did Cyberlink not buy old technology? I don't know in which direction will develop the technology, but in Poland representatives the software say outright. Who needs Bluray UHD since they are fast memory? The second thing the price disc BluRay. How much is a bluray in India and how many in Poland?

x265_Project

27th February 2017, 22:19

hajj_3

27th February 2017, 22:44

2017 is shaping up to be a breakout year for HEVC.

LG announced the first smartphone supporting Dolby Vision HDR. See https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/dolby-laboratories-lg-electronics-announce-120000574.html Of course, watching Netflix and Amazon HDR movies requires HEVC, and so we know that the LG G6 will have HEVC hardware support which is on and available for all applications.

Sony announced the Xperia XZ Premium, the world's first 4K HDR smart phone, powered by a Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 SOC.

We expect the Samsung Galaxy Note 8, with an AmoLED HDR display and a Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 (or similar Samsung Exynos processor) to also provide native HEVC support, and it's reasonable to expect Apple to want to keep pace when they announce the next iPhone.

60% of new TVs sold in the US last quarter were 4K, and most 4K TVs are smart TVs with native HEVC support. Most new connected set-top boxes (Roku, Fire TV, etc.) support 4K HEVC playback.

With HEVC becoming a default codec on premium smartphones, and being supported by the majority of home entertainment video devices, 2017 promises to be a break-out year.

doesn't mean much if it isn't used. The iphone used to use hevc for facetime but then hevc advance decided to be idiots so they switched to h264.

2017 will be the year of vp9 and the the early testing of av1 likely on youtube.

CruNcher

27th February 2017, 23:43

2017 is shaping up to be a breakout year for HEVC.

LG announced the first smartphone supporting Dolby Vision HDR. See https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/dolby-laboratories-lg-electronics-announce-120000574.html Of course, watching Netflix and Amazon HDR movies requires HEVC, and so we know that the LG G6 will have HEVC hardware support which is on and available for all applications.

Sony announced the Xperia XZ Premium, the world's first 4K HDR smart phone, powered by a Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 SOC.

We expect the Samsung Galaxy Note 8, with an AmoLED HDR display and a Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 (or similar Samsung Exynos processor) to also provide native HEVC support, and it's reasonable to expect Apple to want to keep pace when they announce the next iPhone.

60% of new TVs sold in the US last quarter were 4K, and most 4K TVs are smart TVs with native HEVC support. Most new connected set-top boxes (Roku, Fire TV, etc.) support 4K HEVC playback.

With HEVC becoming a default codec on premium smartphones, and being supported by the majority of home entertainment video devices, 2017 promises to be a break-out year.

No words only usable for external out but really HDR on a Smartphhone Screen serious, how desperate must the industry be selling such nonsense as a usable feature ?

And then Dolby Vision even, fits the name makes the Price, usability unimportant.

Maybe Scheik Ahmad Omar Amamsa Namsa damsa falls for it :D

With HEVC becoming a default codec on premium smartphones, and being supported by the majority of home entertainment video devices, 2017 promises to be a break-out year.

There the PR guy speaks fully out of you ;)

x265_Project

28th February 2017, 05:50

No words only usable for external out but really HDR on a Smartphhone Screen serious, how desperate must the industry be selling such nonsense as a usable feature ?

If you think about it, high dynamic range video is just a way to capture and display a more life-like version of any video. Video sensors have been steadily improving over the years, and most can capture a very wide dynamic range. Now that display technology has improved to enable brighter brights and darker darks (especially with OLED and AMOLED displays, which are being used in some of the latest smartphones), it just makes sense to enable this capability. Netflix and Amazon have a good selection of HDR movies and TV shows, but why not enable HDR video capture and playback on your smartphone? HDR may be a premium capability today, but it's destined to become a standard feature over the next couple of years... for video and for photos.

x265_Project

28th February 2017, 05:52

doesn't mean much if it isn't used. The iphone used to use hevc for facetime but then hevc advance decided to be idiots so they switched to h264.

2017 will be the year of vp9 and the the early testing of av1 likely on youtube.
Besides YouTube, who is using VP9? Others might, but the number of HEVC capable devices vastly outnumbers VP9 capable devices.

Do you think Apple will support VP9? I don't.

CruNcher

28th February 2017, 10:10

If you think about it, high dynamic range video is just a way to capture and display a more life-like version of any video. Video sensors have been steadily improving over the years, and most can capture a very wide dynamic range. Now that display technology has improved to enable brighter brights and darker darks (especially with OLED and AMOLED displays, which are being used in some of the latest smartphones), it just makes sense to enable this capability. Netflix and Amazon have a good selection of HDR movies and TV shows, but why not enable HDR video capture and playback on your smartphone? HDR may be a premium capability today, but it's destined to become a standard feature over the next couple of years... for video and for photos.

Sure and thats a good thing but i doubt people will pay Premium for just it like many seem to hope when the Dolby Logo Pranks on the Device ;)

WhatZit

28th February 2017, 14:33

Do you think Apple will support VP9? I don't.

Not VP9, but...

Unless AV1 is a ponderous algorithmic disaster (who knows?), or hardware decoders take another year to eventuate (there's a LOT of chipset manufacturers in the AOM), you're right: this year WILL be thrilling for HEVC.

Just not in the way you're expecting :sly:

x265_Project

28th February 2017, 16:49

Not VP9, but...

Unless AV1 is a ponderous algorithmic disaster (who knows?), or hardware decoders take another year to eventuate (there's a LOT of chipset manufacturers in the AOM), you're right: this year WILL be thrilling for HEVC.

Just not in the way you're expecting :sly:

AV1 will be 5x to 10x more complex (slower to encode or decode) than VP9 or HEVC, and the efficiency gain over HEVC may be small. Chip vendors are pledging to support it, but it will take 1-2 years for hardware decoders and encoders to be designed and implemented. There are likely to be legal challenges as well. AV1 may succeed, but it will take 2-3 years before it becomes an available option.

x265_Project

28th February 2017, 16:55

Sure and thats a good thing but i doubt people will pay Premium for just it like many seem to hope when the Dolby Logo Pranks on the Device ;)

HEVC hardware is already in every TV, smartphone and PC chipset. People have been paying for the hardware for the past 3 years. The patent royalty on smartphones may be about $1 total... less than $2 for TVs. This is less than what everyone paid to license MPEG-2 video patents. Obviously, Sony and LG are paying the patent royalties and turning HEVC on in their latest smartphones. I expect their competitors (Samsung, Apple, etc.) to follow shortly. HEVC will be used for more than just watching HDR movies from Netflix and Amazon. It doubles your video storage. It can double your photo storage. What does flash memory cost? What does mobile bandwidth cost? A lot more than the cost of implementing HEVC.

mandarinka

28th February 2017, 17:05

I wouldn't be sure about Apple, they like to play "I know what you need" act with consumer and don't really adopt new features as one would expect based on market demand.

Android devices are broadly covered by HEVC support though. Also I was in the market for new TV now and noticed that Europe is switching to DVB-T2 with HEVC coding. So... my new TV bought in a few weeks probably will have HEVC decoder, even tho it's going ot be just 1080p screen.

JohnLai

28th February 2017, 17:42

AV1 will be 5x to 10x more complex (slower to encode or decode) than VP9 or HEVC, and the efficiency gain over HEVC may be small. Chip vendors are pledging to support it, but it will take 1-2 years for hardware decoders and encoders to be designed and implemented. There are likely to be legal challenges as well. AV1 may succeed, but it will take 2-3 years before it becomes an available option.

Then HEVC better gain a foothold within those 2-3 years, otherwise AV1 might displace HEVC or specifically MPEG-LA and co. as video standard-setter.

hajj_3

28th February 2017, 18:02

HEVC hardware is already in every TV, smartphone and PC chipset. People have been paying for the hardware for the past 3 years. The patent royalty on smartphones may be about $1 total... less than $2 for TVs. This is less than what everyone paid to license MPEG-2 video patents. Obviously, Sony and LG are paying the patent royalties and turning HEVC on in their latest smartphones. I expect their competitors (Samsung, Apple, etc.) to follow shortly. HEVC will be used for more than just watching HDR movies from Netflix and Amazon. It doubles your video storage. It can double your photo storage. What does flash memory cost? What does mobile bandwidth cost? A lot more than the cost of implementing HEVC.

Most smartphones can't hardware decode hevc so if i record a video on my phone in hevc and send it via whatsapp to a friend then they probably can't view it. Also i don't think youtube allows you to upload videos that are recorded in hevc, not sure about facebook or twitter.

mandarinka

28th February 2017, 18:20

Also i don't think youtube allows you to upload videos that are recorded in hevc
Quite anti-competetive if true. Note that youtube uses ffmpeg which obviously has HEVC support. And they obviously aren't prevented from enabling it by licensing, because they compile it themselves from source and don't ship the software to anybody.

x265_Project

28th February 2017, 19:59

Quite anti-competetive if true. Note that youtube uses ffmpeg which obviously has HEVC support. And they obviously aren't prevented from enabling it by licensing, because they compile it themselves from source and don't ship the software to anybody.
There's a difference between licensing a copyrighted software library (legally using x265) and licensing patent rights (legally using or distributing HEVC products or content). That being said, you're right that MPEG LA charges no HEVC content distribution fees whatsoever, and HEVC Advance only charges for paid subscriptions or pay-per-title content, and not for ad-supported content like YouTube, so HEVC content distribution would be royalty free for YouTube. And yes, they could use x265 for free under the GPL v2 license. The same is true for Facebook, Twitter, and many other web services. And even if for companies that charge subscription or per-title fees, the annual maximum content distribution royalty is $2.5 million / year (pocket change for Netflix, Amazon, etc.).

x265_Project

28th February 2017, 20:03

Most smartphones can't hardware decode hevc so if i record a video on my phone in hevc and send it via whatsapp to a friend then they probably can't view it. Also i don't think youtube allows you to upload videos that are recorded in hevc, not sure about facebook or twitter.

Most modern smartphones sold in the last 3 years have HEVC hardware decoders and encoders. Most of the time, however, the drivers to turn this capability on were left off of the device. But these device manufacturers could easily push out a device driver update to turn that capability on, if they wanted to.