BD3D2MK3D v1.17: Convert 3D BDs or MKV to 3D SBS, T&B or Frame-sequential MKV [Archive] - Page 8

r0lZ

20th April 2015, 08:58

It is also possible to convert the SRT file to SUP directly with Subtitle Edit. The quality is good, although I don't know if there are so many options than with tsMuxer.

But anyway, with your method, you'll get 2D subtitles. De_Hollander wants 3D subs. And, for 3D subs, it is highly recommended to use the original SUP streams from the BD as a basis, because the sizes and positions of the subtitles are very important. They are lost when you convert them to SRT, due to the different font and font size and the fact that the positions are not saved in SRT format.

And to generate the 3D subs with the correct depth, it is necessary to demux the MVC video stream anyway (to get the 3D-Planes) and it is easy to demux the original SUP streams at the same time. Why not use them directly, without the difficult OCR job for converting them to text format? (The OCR of Subtitle Edit is surprisingly good, but errors are unavoidable, and you have to verify all subtitles anyway.)

De_Hollander

20th April 2015, 09:04

@frank No that's not good for me, because your subtitles are not in the correct depth and image positions. And cause a strange image 3d ghosting effect, if the subtitle the popout prevented. Therefore, I would simply like to always use BD3D2MK3D

De_Hollander

20th April 2015, 11:50

What's the best way to remux only the 3d iso to iso or mkv?

Demux een seamless branching 3d is a problem with tsmuxer.
There is a problem with overlapping like Tangled.
can BD3D2MK3D remux ?

r0lZ

20th April 2015, 11:57

No. BD3D2MK3D, as its name implies, is made to convert a BD3D to MK3D, and nothing else.
If you want to do totally other things, please port in the right threads.

frank

22nd April 2015, 16:32

r0lZ:But anyway, with your method, you'll get 2D subtitles.I know, that's why I wrote for difficult (or special) cases (to add words, correcting syntax, colors, borders,...).
Why not use them directly, without the difficult OCR job for converting them to text format?I normally use it but I had cases where forced subtitles were completely unsatisfactory in my language (e.g. Jurassic Park).
Forced subs are not so many and I can edit every position. Then I only replace the (2D) sup, the rest makes BD3D2MK3D.

Much important: We can create our own srt subtitles and convert into sup with the tools on board of BD3D2MK3D.
Surely this is not for beginners.

r0lZ

22nd April 2015, 16:42

Right! Of course, if you want to edit the subtitles, it is much easier to edit a SRT file with a text editor than to edit the original bitmaps.

And yes, it is possible to replace the edited subtitles to the right position and with the right depth with the Tools of BD3D2MK3D. But I agree that it's not really easy. I should write a guide to explain how to add external subtitles (or edit an existing stream as you suggest) to the 3D MKV, with (more or less) correct positions and depths. But I haven't much time, and I'm not sure there are many peoples interested in that job.

sambal

26th April 2015, 10:49

Recently discovered your program and I love it! Just the thing I've been looking for since I got interest in 3D, about 3 years ago. Especially the 3D subs are very good, I used to use several programs to accomplish this task, including Photoshop to make 3D-T&B out of 2D. Your way is much easier and less time consuming.

I would like to ask you to implement an option to only remux a chapter instead of the whole BD. In my case it would mainly be for test purposes, but others might have other uses for it.

r0lZ

26th April 2015, 11:07

Thanks for your kind words. :-)

Unfortunately, I can't easily implement the option to convert a single chapter. It's mainly because the MVC decoders cannot currently "seek" to a certain point in the original video files. Therefore, all pictures must be decoded sequentially, starting with the first one.

If you want to do a short test, you can easily edit the _ENCODE.cmd file to change the total number of frames to encode. The command to edit looks like this:

"D:\Tcl\work\BD3D2MK3D\toolset\avs2yuv.exe" ^
"_ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs" -frames 132312 -o - ^
| "D:\Tcl\work\BD3D2MK3D\toolset\x264_x64.exe" ^
--crf 20 --preset slower --level 4.1 --vbv-bufsize 78125 --vbv-maxrate 62500 ^
--threads 4 ^
--frame-packing 3 --qpfile chapters_3D.qpfile --frames 132312 ^
--output "00801.264" --demuxer y4m --stdin y4m -

As you can see (in blue) the number of frames is present two times (with the x64 option enabled), and you have to change the two occurrences. (If you encode in 32-bit, the number of frames is present only once in the command.)

If you need to encode exactly the first chapter, you can get the number of frames from the the "chapters_3D.qpfile" file. (Each line contains the frame number corresponding to the start of each chapter.)

With that trick, you can easily convert only the beginning of the file. But it is not possible to encode only a segment of the input file that doesn't start at the beginning.

I suggest also to use the "ultrafast" preset in the last tab, if disc space and image quality are not important for your test. You can also change the preset manually in the _ENCODE.cmd file (in purple above).

sambal

27th April 2015, 04:57

Thank you for your advice, setting the number of frames is fine for my needs. Starting at the beginning is maybe not always what I want, but it will do.

r0lZ

29th April 2015, 11:48

I may add an option to *try* to generate a better palette automatically for the 3D subtitles in VobSub format, but I still have to do numerous tests to be sure that that will give relatively good results, and of course to be sure that the result will never be worse than with the default palette. Currently, I'm still not convinced.

OK, I have found a way to generate a better palette to use for conversion of the BD SUP files to VobSub format. That was not easy, but I got it. The problem is that BDSup2Sub uses a very limited set of colours, and requires the colours in a specific order.

The process of analysing all subtitles from the original subtitle file is very long. Therefore, I have added a sub-menu in the Settings menu to select the method to use to generate the palette. There are 3 options:

"Use BDSup2Sub Default DVD Palette" doesn't generate a new palette at all. It uses the default palette, like all previous versions of BD3D2MK3D. For best results, you should verify the IDX/SUB file, and if necessary modify the palette manually (with BDSup2Sub's "Edit Default DVD Palette" option).
"Analyse a single subtitle" is the recommended method, because it is fast. But it will modify only the two colours used by the single subtitle it has analysed. If there are other subtitles in the same stream that use different colours, they will not be modified, and will therefore still be wrong. However, usually, a subtitle stream uses the same colour for all subtitles, except sometimes some subtitles for the hearing impaired.
"Analyse all subtitles" should be used only if you know that the subtitle stream has subtitles in several different colours, or if you don't care wasting several minutes (per stream to analyse).

Note that if a subtitle stream uses, for example, several different yellows, BDSup2Sub will assign the only yellow it has in its palette to the two kind of subtitles, because it has only one yellow available. BD3D2MK3D can't fix that problem, even when using the "analyse all subtitles" option, and therefore it will modify the light and dark yellow slots of the palette with colours suitable for the first yellow it finds in the stream. The subsequent yellow subtitles in the stream may still have wrong colours.

Anyway, I think that with the default option to check a single subtitle only, BD3D2MK3D should already produce much better VobSub streams than before. And of course, if you want perfect subtitles, you should use the BD SUP format instead of VobSub (but take care and verify if your players are compatible with the BD SUP format).

Most of the other modifications in this version are also related to the Palette. For example, I have added a Tool to generate a palette from any subtitle file in BD SUP or XML/PNG format. See the version history for details:

# v0.64 (April 29, 2015)
# - Added support for Kodi/xbmc 3D extension strings in the output file name.
# - Added an option to omit the director name in the output file name (for Kodi/xbmc).
# - The BD SUP (PGS) subtitle file format is now the default (in tab 2)
# - New analysis of the subtitles for a better palette when converting the subtitles to VobSub format (2D or 3D).
# - Added the Settings -> VobSub Palette menu to select the palette analysis method.
# - Added an option in Tools -> Convert Subtitles to 3D (with 3D-Planes) to select the palette analysis method.
# - Added Tools -> Generate VobSub Palette from a BD SUP File
# - Tools -> Open Subtitle in BDSup2Sub loads now also the palette.ini file of the same name if it exists.
# - Updated MkvMerge and MkvPropEdit to the latest version (v7.8.0)
# - Updated x265 to the latest build (2015-04-29).

As usual, download the latest version here: BD3D2MK3D.7z (http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/BD3D2AVS/BD3D2MK3D.7z)

Marty

2nd May 2015, 19:11

Hi r0lz,

in last version of your soft I have error. I select streams, set up CRF, preset mode etc. (as always) click on Do it! and in few minutes pop up this error message

can't read "outext": no such variable
can't read "outext": no such variable
while executing
"if {$palettefile == "" || ! [file exists $palettefile] || ($outext != "idx" && $outext != "sub")} {
if {[string first "--palette-mode" $options] ==..."
(procedure "ConvertSubs" line 58)
invoked from within
"ConvertSubs $tmp3dxml1 $outfile1 0 false $tohardcode $language 24p 24p $resize720 $palettefilename $::bds2sOptions"
(procedure "ConvertSubtitleTo3DMVCMain" line 198)
invoked from within
"ConvertSubtitleTo3DMVCMain $supfile $sub3dfile $in3dp $sbsformat 1 $::additionaldepth $filter $forced $forceforced $::config(gen_palette) $framerate ..."
(procedure "GenerateAvs" line 990)
invoked from within
"GenerateAvs"
invoked from within
".nbf5.gf.gen invoke "
invoked from within
".nbf5.gf.gen instate {pressed !disabled} { .nbf5.gf.gen state !pressed; .nbf5.gf.gen invoke } "
(command bound to event)

I tried 3 different movies and same error.
Is somewhere older version BD3D2M3D? In this thread I found only actually version.

r0lZ

2nd May 2015, 19:36

Oops, sorry. A last minute copy/paste is the culprit.

Here is a fixed version:

# v0.65 (May 2, 2015)
# - Bug fix: Error when converting the subtitles to 3D

Thanks for the report!

Download: BD3D2MK3D.7z (http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/BD3D2AVS/BD3D2MK3D.7z)

Marty

3rd May 2015, 12:02

Thx for quick fix, works fine. Good work :thanks:

r0lZ

24th May 2015, 07:30

The new version of MkvMerge has changed the way it deals with the BD TrueHD+AC3 files. It is now possible to mux opnly the 5.1 AC3 core, or the 7.1 THD, or both. By default, both streams are muxed. Therefore, I had to modify slightly BD3D2MK3D to include only the relevant part, according to the "core" option in tab 2. And I have finally modified many things related to the audio streams, and added several tools.

This version has also some improvements related to the chapter files, and a few bug fixes.

As usual, I have also updated the third party exes, including x265. Please note that since x265 is updated every day, I will continue to update it each time a new version of BD3D2MK3D is released, but I will not announce the update any more.

# v0.66 (May 24, 2015)
# - Tools -> Chapters File Converter accepts now also the new Matroska XML file format as input.
# - Added Tools -> Search chapters file at ChapterDB.org (Has chapter files with real chapter names)
# - Added Tools -> Add (or replace) chapters in MKV file to easily add chapters to an exisating MKV/MK3D file.
# - Tab 2: It is now possible to convert the audio streams to AAC.
# - Tools -> Convert Audio File to AC3 can now also convert to AAC.
# - Added Settings -> AAC Conversion Quality menu.
# - The extensions of the demuxed HD and lossless DTS and AC3 audio tracks are now .dtshd, .dtshdma, .eac3 and .thd+ac3 instead of .dts and .ac3.
# - When converting DTS to AC3 or AAC, for best quality, the DTS-HD or DTS-HD-Master tracks are now automaticaly demuxed instead of the DTS core.
# - When muxing a E-AC3 stream with MkvMerge, -a 0 is now added in the _MUX_*D_OPTIONS.txt file, as otherwise the new version of MkvMerge muxes also the 5.1 AC3 core.
# - The labels of the audio tracks contain now "5.1" or "7.1" instread of "Multi-channel".
# - Added Tools -> Extract 5.1 core of HD/lossless audio file (for DTS-HD, DTS-HD-Master or TrueHD files)
# - Bug fix: When muxing DTS-HD, DTS-HD-Master, E-AC3 or TrueHD, the label of the track was errenously DTS or AC3.
# - Bug fix: Crash when converting forced subs only to 3D of a stream without any forced sub (introduced in v0.64)
# - Workaround for a tsMuxeR bug happening when it tries to demux an empty audio stream.
# - Minor cosmetic changes, including a more legible log.
# - Updated the Mkvtoolnix exes to the latest version (v9.7.0 'Birds')
# - As usual, updated x265 to the latest build. (I will not announce these updates any more.)

Have fun!

Download: BD3D2MK3D.7z (http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/BD3D2AVS/BD3D2MK3D.7z)

De_Hollander

26th May 2015, 20:53

why is the sup shadowpalet alway's brown/gray ?
I can't change the palit

http://i.imgur.com/RR0AMGE.png

r0lZ

26th May 2015, 22:09

The BD SUP format doesn't use the palette. To change the palette, you must save in DVD VobSub (IDX/SUB) format. Change the setting in the "Output format" dropdown at the top of the window.

BTW, why do you need to change it ? Normally, the latest versions of BD3D2MK3D should build and use the right palette automatically.

De_Hollander

27th May 2015, 09:39

i now, but i make sup and (IDX/SUB) subs for the half-sbs
it's strange that the black color from the sup changes to brown/grey
I was wondering why is that.

r0lZ

27th May 2015, 11:41

I don't understand what's wrong. Currently, BD3D2MK3D tries to generate the best palette, and IMO it works pretty well, although it's still not perfect. The subtitles you have loaded in the image posted in post #368 are well known to cause problems to BDSup2Sub. The problem is that in addition to the (totally) black outline, they use also a grey shadow. When BDSup2Sub uses its internal palette, that shadow is rendered with the default grey, and it is much lighter than the original grey of the outline. Therefore the subtitles look strange, especially when they are displayed over a dark background. That's exactly what the last versions of BD3D2MK3D avoid automatically. With the palette generated by BD3D2MK3D, the shadow has (or at least should have) a colour very similar to the original grey. It's a much darker grey than the one from the internal palette, and the effect of the shadow over a dark background should be satisfactory.

BTW, obviously, you have loaded the original BD SUP, and not the converted VobSub. Therefore, what you see in the image has exactly the same colours than in the BD. BD3D2MK3D cannot be responsible of any change in colours in that subtitle, since it has never modified it. And I don't see any brown colour in your picture. I have verified with an image editor, and the shadow is a pure grey. If it appears somewhat brown, it's probably due to the contrast with the blue background.

To verify if the palette generated by BD3D2MK3D is correct, you should load the BD SUP in BDSup2Sub, then load the palette generated by BD3D2MK3D, and of course set the output format to VobSub. Then you can compare the original subtitle (on top) and the subtitle as it will be if you generate the IDX/SUB file with that palette. You will probably agree that the result is good, if not perfect. (Take in mind that the result cannot be perfect due to the limitations of the VobSub format.)

De_Hollander

27th May 2015, 11:42

can anyone tell me why some 3d have right eye first
Like A Turtle's Tale: Sammy's Adventures and Prometheus

r0lZ

27th May 2015, 11:52

There is no precise reason. The director is free to consider that the right view is the main view, perhaps because he thinks that it is better. Normally, in the human vision, the two eyes are equal, and the "perfect 2D view" is the view generated by the brain and corresponding to a "third eye" located exactly between the two eyes. But in the movie, it is too difficult (and expensive) to shot 3 views at the same time, and the director has to select a view for the 2D version of the movie.

The real question is not why is it the right view in some rare cases, but why is it not the right view more often? There is no objective reason to consider that the left view is better than the right one.

In the 3DBDs, the main view must be encoded in AVC, and the dependent view in MVC, because the 2D-only BD players cannot decode MVC. They "see" only the AVC stream, and show it exactly like a 2D BD.

sambal

1st June 2015, 18:13

I wanted to give some depth to T&B subtitles (IDX/SUB) from a BD that had empty 3D-planes. I tried it with 'Convert subtitles to 3D (fixed depth)" from the 'Tools' menu, but then the L/R subtitles also shifted vertically. I tried this both with SUP and XML/PNG files.
After that I did it with 'Convert subtitles to 3D (with 3D-plane)" and filled in the desired depth in the XML file and this worked fine. (Later I saw that I could have left the XML alone and use the 'additional depth' input, but I didn't try that.)
Is is an bug in your program that the first option had a flawed outcome or did I perhaps do something wrong?

r0lZ

1st June 2015, 19:16

Good question. Honestly, I don't encode in T&B mode, and I have not used the old conversion method (w/o 3D-planes) since a while. I do not support or develop it any more, and I should have removed it already. (If I have kept it, it's only because it offers the possibility to convert several subtitle streams in one shot.)

Anyway, I did only the GUI and I am not the author of the exe that is used by the old method (suppe3d.exe), and if it doesn't work as expected, I can't fix it because I don't have the sources, and the author is not active any more. So, if it appears that it doesn't work correctly, I will almost certainly remove it.

Can you confirm that your movie is correctly encoded in real 16:9 half-T&B (1920x1080)? If the black borders of a Cinemascope movie have been cropped, it is normal that the vertical position of the subtitles is wrong. Same thing if the movie is encoded in Full-T&B.

sambal

3rd June 2015, 17:34

I think I didn't made my problem clear. (English is not my native language..)
It is not that the whole subtitle moves vertically, but the left image is shifted from the right one, so there are two subtitles above each other to be seen at a time. It is not a real problem, as with the 3D-planes method is works fine. I just thought you wrote the routine.
But, if is is an error in the program, you might want to remove the whole option, as there are other methods available.

r0lZ

3rd June 2015, 18:03

Oh, well, if you create 3D subtitles, there must be two subtitles (stacked vertically for T&B and horizontally for SBS), exactly like the two images of the 3D movie. The 3D subtitles must be handled correctly by the player. They must be printed on the video BEFORE the split of the two images. Unfortunately, many players consider the subtitles as 2D and duplicate them to show the same thing over the two images. That works fine with 2D subtitles, but of course, you can't keep the correct depth that way. With 3D subtitles, you see the subtitle twice (with one subtitle somewhere near the middle of the screen in T&B).

In fact, the best way to display the 3D subtitles on a 3D TV is with an external player that doesn't handle the 3D. The player thinks that the movie and the subtitles are in 3D, and therefore it displays the 3D subtitles "normally", with one subtitle over each view. Then, the TV splits the two views (including the subtitles since it doesn't know that they are there) and display them in 3D. The result is usually perfect (unless the player resizes or moves the subtitles).

However, I'm still not sure I understand you correctly. The two methods of generating the 3D subtitles should give identical results (except that it is possible to use the right depth with the method using the 3D-Planes). If I don't understand you, can you post here a screenshot of the same subtitle generated with the two methods, and explain with that example what are the differences?

sambal

10th June 2015, 09:41

I must have done something terribly wrong, cause now everything seems to work fine. I have tried it a couple of times now with different movies, but the error doesn't appear anymore. I am sorry for wasting your time on this matter.

However, there is an other issue I would like to report.
If I choose from a subtitle both its normal and 'forced captions only' versions, I get afterward a message if the 'forced captions only' doesn't exist.
But if I choose the 'forced captions only' without the normal version, I get a message immediately, and the program stops.

De_Hollander

10th June 2015, 10:15

r0lZ

10th June 2015, 11:26

I must have done something terribly wrong, cause now everything seems to work fine. I have tried it a couple of times now with different movies, but the error doesn't appear anymore. I am sorry for wasting your time on this matter.
Thanks for the confirmation. If you find a way to reproduce the problem, please let me know. Even if you did "something terribly wrong", the program should react correctly.
However, there is an other issue I would like to report.
If I choose from a subtitle both its normal and 'forced captions only' versions, I get afterward a message if the 'forced captions only' doesn't exist.
But if I choose the 'forced captions only' without the normal version, I get a message immediately, and the program stops.
Hum, again I can't reproduce the problem. I just did a small test with a short clip. I have selected the French "forced only" subtitles only, and the program has demuxed the streams, extracted the 3D-Planes from the MVC stream and finally found that there is no forced captions in the French subtit;le stream. At the end of the process, it has displayed this dialog, perfectly normal:

---------------------------
BD3D2MK3D
---------------------------
Done with warnings!

* No forced captions in "00160.track_4609.Fra_forced.3D.sup"! Stream skipped.

Launch "_ENCODE.cmd" to encode the video (and optionally mux to MKV).

Use a delay of 5005 ms if you mux the files yourself.

Be sure to verify that there is enough disc space!
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

I launched the encode, and finally got the MKV, of course without the forced French subtitles.

I have not tried yet to hardcode the forced subtitles (without selection other subtitles in tab 2), but I guess that the result will be identical.

So, I can't find any problem with the handling of the subtitles. Are you sure you use the latest version (v0.66) ? (I have recently modified many things in the code related to the subtitle streams, and older versions can perhaps have some bugs that are fixed in v0.66.)

Also, what do you mean exactly with "I get a message immediately" ? What is the content of that message ? When does it show up ? Is it at the end of the process, like the "no forced captions" warning, or immediately when you click the Do it! button ?

Note that I have already seen some BD discs with "bad" subtitle streams. Some short clips have subtitle streams totally empty (without forced or standard subtitles at all). In that case, BDSup2Sub errors out with a cryptic error message like "index 0 out of bounds" (or something similar). I have tried to intercept that message, and if it appears, BD3D2MK3D should display an error message similar to the "no forced captions" warning, but since that case is not frequent, I can't be sure that it is correctly handled. Anyway, in that case, the "index 0" message should appear in red in the console, and be in the BD3D2MK3D.log file.

Anyway, again, if you can reproduce the problem, please let me know. And keep the log file. I may need it to understand what's happening.

[EDIT] I did a test with the same short clip, but this time, I have selected no subtitle streams at all in tab 2, and selected the French forced only stream in the "hardcode subtitle on video" option in the last tab. Again, there is a (slightly different) warning at the end of the process, but everything went file, and I have encoded the clip without problem (and of course without hardcoded subtitles). Therefore, I can't find any bug in the handling of the forced subtitles.

r0lZ

10th June 2015, 11:40

I have a collection of over 40 3D bluray movies (left eye first).
some of these original 3D blu-ray's have right eye first.

Blu-ray's Sammy, Drive Angry , dolphin tale, en Prometheus.

When I play these movies the 3D effect seems to be reversed. The best way that I can explain it is that the part of the movie that should be in the foreground is in the background and the background appears to be in the foreground. This effect makes the movie un-watchable.

Pushing the menu you have an option reverse the right eye with the left eye, and then it's oke.
It's exactly the symptom of the left and right views inverted.

In a BD (or ISO), there is a flag in the MPLS file that tells if the two views are in the standard order: main view (AVC) = left view and dependent view (MVC) = right view, or in the opposite order. The BD player must read that flag and send the views to the TV in the correct order. BD3D2MK3D uses that flag to invert the views when it's necessary, and produces always the SBS or T&B file with the "left view first" (to the left in SBS, and on top in T&B), because it's now obviously the well established standard. You can examine the order of the two views in tab 1 of BD3D2MK3D.
Is this a bug from the mede8er it's don't correct its zelf and play it wrong?
Can't handel the mede8er these blu-ray's with right eye first?
I have the 600x3D with 4.1 beta fimware.

here is an option that it can be adjusted so that it will provide the good display?
I heard with encoding the output gives Left eye first instead of right eye.
is there any way without re - encoding to get it well?
Sorry, but this thread is not dedicated to the mede8er players or to any other hardware player. It seems that your player has a (big) bug and ignores the "right view first" flag, but I can't confirm. Please post your questions or report the bug in the mede8er forum (http://www.mede8erforum.com/), not here. Thanks.

And, no, there is (probably) no way to solve the problem without re-encoding the movie or fixing the firmware of your player. I suggest to re-encode the movie with BD3D2MK3D, and you'll get the views in the correct order. If THAT doesn't work as expected, then post a message here. But I will not reply any more to questions not related directly to BD3D2MK3D.

De_Hollander

10th June 2015, 11:45

i have the same

* No forced captions in "00....._forced.3D.sup"! Stream skipped.

http://www.mede8erforum.com/index.php?topic=16395.new%3btopicseen#new
i have already done this question.

r0lZ

10th June 2015, 12:10

As I have already explained elsewhere, there is no fast and accurate way to find if a subtitle stream contains forced captions or not. As a consequence, BD3D2MK3D offers to extract them in tab 2 without knowing if it's useful. After the demux operation, BDSub2Sub tries to extract the forced captions from the main subtitle stream. If it reports that there is no forced captions, then the warning is issued, and the forced stream is simply not included in the MKV (or hardcoded on the video). It's perfectly normal. If there are no forced captions, BD3D2MK3D can't invent them. Therefore, you can simply ignore the warning.

Let's hope that the programmers of the mede8er firmware will see your message and fix the bug. On my side, I can't do much more.

BTW, I have assumed that you play the BD or a non-modified ISO of the BD with your mede8er player. In that case, it is possible to know the right order of the views and the option to invert manually the order of the views is not necessary (unless the "left view first" flag is wrong in the BD itself, due to an authoring error). And therefore the first reply of jer1956 doesn't make sense. But of course, if you have used a program (such as an AVCHD converter) to modify or re-encode your BD and THAT program has not set the "left view first" flag correctly, that means that the bug is not in the mede8er firmware but in the program. (It's what jer1956 explains in his second reply.) If you want to report a bug, you must be sure that your source BD is correct. Verify it with BD3D2MK3D. If the AVC stream is the left eye view, AND the views are inverted on your TV, then it's not a problem related to the player. It's the BD or ISO that is the culprit.

Note that if the flag is wrong in the BD or ISO, BD3D2MK3D will produce a SBS or T&B file with the views inverted as well, because it trust the flag. As explained earlier in this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1703420#post1703420), if you want to encode such a badly authored BD or ISO, you will have to modify the order of the views manually in the AVS script.

Also, SBS or T&B files not generated by BD3D2MK3D may have the views inverted. It's the case of many bad 3D conversions available on YouTube or similar sites. Again, I'm not responsible of the bugs of other programs.

De_Hollander

10th June 2015, 12:11

My source original BD is correct, when i looked in dvdfab it's says right eye first.

here more
http://www.mede8erforum.com/index.php?topic=16395.new%3btopicseen#new

i have call mede8er helpdesc he told me he has contact the software engineers. This is for now a mediaplayer problem, mede8er can play only Left eye first for playing the correct picture.
But there's is an option, in het menu, to reverse it manualy from right eye first to Left eye first. He say's: maybe it can corrected in the furture with firmware to detect en play right eye first proper.

r0lZ

10th June 2015, 12:22

OK. Just to be sure, what do you play with the mede8er ? ISOs of the original BDs ? Or only SBS or T&B MKVs ?

De_Hollander

10th June 2015, 12:39

OK. Just to be sure, what do you play with the mede8er ? ISOs of the original BDs ? Or only SBS or T&B MKVs ?

Most of time BD remuxed iso's from original BD.
Also playing sometimes the original BD, streaming from PC blu-raydrive to mede8er.
but that doesn't always work.
sometimes mkv Half-sbs and Half-OU

r0lZ

10th June 2015, 12:50

Most of time BD remuxed iso's from original BD.
What do you use to remux the original BD to ISO? The program you use may be the culprit.

Do you have similar problems when you stream from PC or when you play a SBS or T&B ? In the latter case, is it a MKV file produced by BD3D2MK3D ?

De_Hollander

10th June 2015, 18:14

I use anydvd, bdinfo, sometimes dvdfab.
The latest tsMuxeR_2.6.12 for muxing to iso
I dont have problems stream iso's 3d /some tiems mkv with network to mede8er.
Streaming from pc blu-ray drive with network to mede8er is is actually not supported
it play sometimes

the right eye problem I have with iso and original.
I haven't tried it yet with the mkv half-SBS /half - OU

r0lZ

11th June 2015, 10:42

OK, then I suppose that the problem may be caused by tsMuxeR. Can you verify if the left/right order is still correct when you remux a BD with the right view first with tsMuxeR ?

De_Hollander

11th June 2015, 13:10

i don't anderstand you.

I have also 1:1 sammy first adventure (no remux), and the same problem.
i have try a mkv sbs, and have the same problem, maybe it is my TV the problem?
Meybe it's give not the right signal right first to the shutterglassis

r0lZ

11th June 2015, 13:55

OK, I have Samy too, and I can confirm that it has the right view as the base view. It has the "right view first" flag set correctly, and BD3D2MK3D has no trouble converting it to SBS with the views in the usual order (left/right). (Same thing with Samy 2 BTW.) Therefore, if the views are inverted when you play that ISO directly with your mede8er and if you are sure that your ISO is an exact copy of the original (less the protections), then it's an evidence that your player is the culprit. (Note that if you play it via streaming, it is not sure that the mede8er has the bug, because the program you use to stream the file may be also the culprit. Therefore, to be sure that it's the mede8er that doesn't take the right view first flag into account, you must play the ISO locally, directly with the mede8er.)

But verify anyway. Open the ISO in BD3D2MK3D, select the main movie (it should be selected automatically) and look at the two lines about the video streams in tab 1. You should see something like this:

Video : Und AVC, 1080p, 23.976 fps, right-eye
Video : Und MVC, 1080p, 23.976 fps, left-eye (32 3D-Planes)
...

If "right-eye" is associated with the AVC stream, like in the example above, that means that the "right view first" flag is correctly set in your ISO, and your mede8er has a bug. Otherwise, the flag has been modified by the program you have used to copy the BD to ISO, and you should consider to use another program.

De_Hollander

11th June 2015, 15:59

i have try an mkv sbs from sammy on my smart tv usb input.
i have the same problem.

I think it's a TV problem.

It's the UE55D8000 led 3d from 2011

I have mound the iso and opend it with BD3D2MK3D
this is what i see

Video : Und AVC, 1080p, 23.976 fps, right-eye
Video : Und MVC, 1080p, 23.976 fps, left-eye (32 3D-Planes)

r0lZ

11th June 2015, 19:40

The order of the views is stored only in the MKV container, but unfortunately, all Samsung TVs ignore it. I have also a Samsung TV, and I know that it ignores the 3D mode stored in the MKV container, but that it takes the 3D mode stored in the video elementary stream into account. Unfortunately, that setting can specify if the movie is encoded in SBS or T&B, but not if the left or right view comes first. By default, my TV shows the left view first, as almost all TVs.

It's why all movies converted to SBS or T&B by BD3D2MK3D have the left view first anyway, regardless of the order of the views in the original BD (only, of course, if the flag is correct in the original BD or ISO). That means that the SBS you have tried on your TV has NOT been encoded with BD3D2MK3D, or that you forgot to reset the views order setting of the TV to its default value: left view first.

The "right view first" flag is correct in the ISO, and if you encode it with BD3D2MK3D, the TV will show the 3D correctly.

Conclusion: Encode your 3D movies with BD3D2MK3D and you should have no problem.

De_Hollander

17th June 2015, 18:12

OK, I have found a way to generate a better palette to use for conversion of the BD SUP files to VobSub format. That was not easy, but I got it. The problem is that BDSup2Sub uses a very limited set of colours, and requires the colours in a specific order.

The process of analysing all subtitles from the original subtitle file is very long. Therefore, I have added a sub-menu in the Settings menu to select the method to use to generate the palette. There are 3 options:

"Use BDSup2Sub Default DVD Palette" doesn't generate a new palette at all. It uses the default palette, like all previous versions of BD3D2MK3D. For best results, you should verify the IDX/SUB file, and if necessary modify the palette manually (with BDSup2Sub's "Edit Default DVD Palette" option).
"Analyse a single subtitle" is the recommended method, because it is fast. But it will modify only the two colours used by the single subtitle it has analysed. If there are other subtitles in the same stream that use different colours, they will not be modified, and will therefore still be wrong. However, usually, a subtitle stream uses the same colour for all subtitles, except sometimes some subtitles for the hearing impaired.
"Analyse all subtitles" should be used only if you know that the subtitle stream has subtitles in several different colours, or if you don't care wasting several minutes (per stream to analyse).

Note that if a subtitle stream uses, for example, several different yellows, BDSup2Sub will assign the only yellow it has in its palette to the two kind of subtitles, because it has only one yellow available. BD3D2MK3D can't fix that problem, even when using the "analyse all subtitles" option, and therefore it will modify the light and dark yellow slots of the palette with colours suitable for the first yellow it finds in the stream. The subsequent yellow subtitles in the stream may still have wrong colours.

Anyway, I think that with the default option to check a single subtitle only, BD3D2MK3D should already produce much better VobSub streams than before. And of course, if you want perfect subtitles, you should use the BD SUP format instead of VobSub (but take care and verify if your players are compatible with the BD SUP format).

Most of the other modifications in this version are also related to the Palette. For example, I have added a Tool to generate a palette from any subtitle file in BD SUP or XML/PNG format. See the version history for details:

As usual, download the latest version here: BD3D2MK3D.7z (http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/BD3D2AVS/BD3D2MK3D.7z)

i have re-encoded Ice Age A Mammoth Christmas to Half OU
the problem de vobsub have again the wrong colors.
I thought you had fixed it

http://i.imgur.com/uTdbwBP.jpg

where is that number for? (at the green arrow)

http://i.imgur.com/7e2ARUe.jpg

i have set it befor on 19 and get a very small file

I want the best quality and not too small file.
1,89 GB (2.031.261.054 bytes)
What number gives the best result ?

powerdvd will not playing it, it crashed

r0lZ

18th June 2015, 10:00

How can I see if the colours are really wrong if you post the image of BDSup2Sub with "SUP (BD)" selected for the output format, and therefore showing two totally identical images of the subtitle?
Anyway, are you sure that you have loaded the palette before exporting the subtitles?
And have you understood that by default the palette is generated after having analysed a single subtitle ONLY? If you have subtitles in several different colours in the same stream, you have to enable Settings -> VobSub Palette -> Analyse All Subtitles (Very Slow).
Finally, remember that if you convert to VobSub format, it is NOT possible to obtain perfect colours. There will always be a difference, due to the limitations of the VobSub format.

I have already replied to the question about the CRF value. 23 is the default value and is imo a very good default, because it compresses very well for a very good visual quality. You can lower if if you wish, to obtain a better quality but a biggest file. To obtain the best quality and if the file size is not a criteria for you, try CRF 0 (lossless). And buy a new hard disc for all movies you will convert, because you'll get a huge file! In fact, your question doesn't make sense, because I can't know what you consider as the best balance between quality and file size.

De_Hollander

18th June 2015, 10:22

i had drop de vobsub in BDSup2Sub_v5.1.2 it is not a sup.
i had automaticly default the palette generated after having analysed a single subtitle

all the subs have the same collor

i opend the palet info

#COL - for BDSup2Sub (java version ONLY!) created by BD3D2MK3D v0.66
# Wed Jun 17 17:04:23 CEST 2015
# Generated from single subtitle image "temp_2D_0130.png".
# Note: Colour #0 (black) is not present in the INI file of the java version and cannot be modified.
Color_14=17,187,187
Color_13=51,250,250
Color_12=187,17,187
Color_11=250,51,250
Color_10=187,187,17
Color_9=250,250,51
Color_8=17,187,17
Color_7=51,250,51
Color_6=187,17,17
Color_5=250,51,51
Color_4=17,17,187
Color_3=51,51,250
Color_2=104,104,104
Color_1=204,204,204
Color_0=201,201,201

r0lZ

18th June 2015, 10:34

OK, and what was the colours of the ORIGINAL subtitle? Why can I see if something is wrong if you show me only the final result, but not the original subtitle? Post here the temp_2D_0130.png image and I'll be able to see if something went wrong.

De_Hollander

18th June 2015, 12:31

r0lZ

18th June 2015, 13:12

I have recreated a simple XML file with your PNG, then converted it to a SUP file with only one image.
Then, I have generated this palette file with BD3D2MK3D:

#COL - for BDSup2Sub (java version ONLY!) created by BD3D2MK3D v0.67
# Thu Jun 18 13:44:45 CEST 2015
# Generated from single subtitle image "test_0001.png".
# Note: Colour #0 (black) is not present in the INI file of the java version and cannot be modified.
Color_14=17,187,187
Color_13=51,250,250
Color_12=187,17,187
Color_11=250,51,250
Color_10=187,187,17
Color_9=250,250,51
Color_8=17,187,17
Color_7=51,250,51
Color_6=187,17,17
Color_5=250,51,51
Color_4=17,17,187
Color_3=51,51,250
Color_2=104,104,104
Color_1=204,204,204
Color_0=201,201,201

Note that it is exactly identical to the palette you have saved above.

Finally, I have loaded the SUP file in BDSup2Sub as well as the generated palette, and configured it to export to VobSub format.

Here is the result. As you can see, it is perfect:
http://s9.postimg.org/l0a02gya7/example_conversion.png (http://postimage.org/)
Note also that you don't even need a custom palette to export that subtitles. The default DVD palette works perfectly too.

I have asked you to give me the "temp_2D_0130.png" file, because it's the file that has been used to compute the palette you have posted in post #396. If it's really the palette generated by BD3D2MK3D for the example posted in post #394, and if it is true that all subtitles have the same colours, then BD3D2MK3D has made its job perfectly well. But according to the screenshot in post #394, the subtitle displayed there IS NOT COMING FROM THE SAME SUBTITLE STREAM than the subtitle posted in your last post. Of course, if you use a palette generated for a specific subtitle stream with another, totally different stream, YOU CANNOT HAVE CORRECT RESULTS. But it's YOUR FAULT!

So, please do not post wrong bug reports any more, and learn how to use the program and how to organise your job so that you will not make stupid errors any more. I can't spend my time to try to understand what's wrong in my program if YOU are the culprit.

De_Hollander

18th June 2015, 14:46

i dont anderstand, you have see the result from me.
the 2D is good when it convert to 3d it's go's wrong.
What you let see is not a 3d convert but 3d
you have see the result from me, that the 3d is go's wrong.

you asking for an difrent subtitel temp_2D_0130.png then that i post before.
now i post subtitel temp_2D_0001.png
the one that i let you seen before in BDSup2Sub_v5.1.2

http://i.imgur.com/nhl5Van.png

I thought I'd reencode the film in the new version BD3D2MK3D

without use BDSup2Sub_v 5.1.2 manualy to edit the sup or vobsup
because it's no longer necessary anymore with the new version BD3D2MK3D

I dont anderstand why you asking for temp_2D_0130.png another subtitel line
then what i post the first time.
the first post is line 1.