BD3D2MK3D v1.17: Convert 3D BDs or MKV to 3D SBS, T&B or Frame-sequential MKV

[r0lZ]

Try to update your Intel CPU driver. That may solve the problem even with hardware acceleration enabled. When hardware acceleration is enabled, BD3D2MK3D uses the DLL provided by Intel to decode the video. It is normally somewhat faster than the software DLL provided with BD3D2MK3D, but it is often unstable. It is therefore necessary to always check if you have the latest version.

CRF 0 is lossless, but you will obtain a very large file, most probably much bigger than the original AVC + MVC streams together. around 50 GB. IMO, it doesn't make sense to decrease the CRF value below 18. x264 is a much better h264 encoder than most other encoders, probably including the encoder that has been used to encode the original BD. It is therefore normal to obtain a small file size, especially if the movie is made of CGI graphics with very smooth and clean images, without much noise. Personally, I consider a final file size of 5GB as perfectly normal, but if you are really picky, try to decrease the CRF value. Decreasing the value by 3 means approximately doubling the size of the video stream, so try CRF 20 and you should obtain approximately a 8 GB MKV (with the audio stream).

Anyway, don't forget that the videos on BD are very big only (mostly) for commercial reasons. Trust your eyes and don't trust the guys who explain that you must use a certain bitrate for a good quality. It's pure nonsense, as I have already explained several times elsewhere (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1803343#post1803343).

[Triple-M]

Hi, Happy New Year to all of you!

I have an 4K TV and i remember that an 4K TV shows 3D in FullHD instead of Half Resolution on a FullHD TV, is this right? If it's right, should i choose a certain setting in your App? Full SBS perhaps?

[r0lZ]

I'm not sure it's right. That depends probably of the 4K TV, but I suppose that it's indeed an advantage of the 4K 3D TVs.
And yes, Full-SBS (or Full-T&B) is the way to create a full-res 3D MKV. Verify that your TV supports that format, but that should be the case, as 4K TVs have buffers large enough to support that format.

Happy new year to everybody!

[hiltr0n]

So I came across an issue I haven't had to deal with before. Any assistance would be great. I am trying to hard burn the subtitles from Avatar. On all of my 3D MKV's I do full side by side and on other hard burn subtitles I haven't had any issue. This is the error I'm getting. Any idea how to get the subtitles hard burned? This movie needs them as there's a fair amount of forced subtitles.

Job finished Sun Jan 14 17:26:57 MST 2018
Whole job took 8 minutes and 31 seconds.

Done with errors!

* BDSup2Sub "MKV3D.track_3.Eng.2D.sup": ERROR: Index: 3, Size: 3There were 1 error
* BDSup2Sub "MKV3D.track_3.Eng.2D.sup": java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException: Index: 3, Size: 3
at java.util.ArrayList.rangeCheck(Unknown Source)
at java.util.ArrayList.get(Unknown Source)
at bdsup2sub.supstream.bd.SubPictureBD.getImageWidth(SubPictureBD.java:94)
at bdsup2sub.supstream.bd.SupBDParser.parse(SupBDParser.java:110)
at bdsup2sub.supstream.bd.SupBDParser.<init>(SupBDParser.java:48)
at bdsup2sub.supstream.bd.SupBD.<init>(SupBD.java:50)
at bdsup2sub.core.Core.readSup(Core.java:442)
at bdsup2sub.BDSup2Sub.runCliLoop(BDSup2Sub.java:290)
at bdsup2sub.BDSup2Sub.execute(BDSup2Sub.java:233)
at bdsup2sub.BDSup2Sub.run(BDSup2Sub.java:52)
at bdsup2sub.BDSup2Sub.main(BDSup2Sub.java:42)
Generating the avisynth script anyway. The subtitles will not be hardcoded. You may have to convert them manually and edit the AVS script.
* Can't convert "MKV3D.track_3.Eng.sup" to 3D BD SUP!
* BDSup2Sub "MKV3D.track_3.Eng.2D.idx": ERROR: Index: 3, Size: 3There were 1 error
* BDSup2Sub "MKV3D.track_3.Eng.2D.idx": java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException: Index: 3, Size: 3
at java.util.ArrayList.rangeCheck(Unknown Source)
at java.util.ArrayList.get(Unknown Source)
at bdsup2sub.supstream.bd.SubPictureBD.getImageWidth(SubPictureBD.java:94)
at bdsup2sub.supstream.bd.SupBDParser.parse(SupBDParser.java:110)
at bdsup2sub.supstream.bd.SupBDParser.<init>(SupBDParser.java:48)
at bdsup2sub.supstream.bd.SupBD.<init>(SupBD.java:50)
at bdsup2sub.core.Core.readSup(Core.java:442)
at bdsup2sub.BDSup2Sub.runCliLoop(BDSup2Sub.java:290)
at bdsup2sub.BDSup2Sub.execute(BDSup2Sub.java:233)
at bdsup2sub.BDSup2Sub.run(BDSup2Sub.java:52)
at bdsup2sub.BDSup2Sub.main(BDSup2Sub.java:42)
Generating the avisynth script anyway. The subtitles will not be hardcoded. You may have to convert them manually and edit the AVS script.

Launch "__ENCODE_3D_LAUNCHER.cmd" to encode the 3D video (and optionally mux to MKV).

Use a delay of 4004 ms if you mux the files yourself.

[r0lZ]

The subtitles from the Avatar 3DBD are very difficult to handle. I have recently taken an inventory of the bugs of the various versions of BDSup2Sub (see here (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1828627#post1828627) and the following posts) and Avatar was among the "difficult streams" I've used to do my tests.

I have just implemented in BD3D2MK3D a new "universal" method to convert any stream to 3D, including Avatar, hopefully without problem. It uses the ++ and Java versions when appropriate. It is somewhat difficult to explain, so I will release the new version as soon as possible so that you can use it. If you really want to try the new method yourself, here are brief instructions:


Convert the ORIGINAL subtitle stream with BDSup2Sub++ v1.0.2 to another BD SUP file. (You can find BDSup2Sub++ in the "toolset" folder of BD3D2MK3D. It is important to use v1.0.2, and not any other version including v1.0.2a.) When the Conversion Options window is shown, be sure to tick the "Change frame rate" option and verify that the FPS Source and Target are both set to 23.976. (This is necessary for ALL conversions with ALL versions of BDSup2Sub.) If you are interested in the forced subtitles only, tick that option.

Close and re-open BDSup2Sub++, and this time, load the new SUP you have created in step 1. Export to XML/PNG in a new folder. (Again, verify the Change frame rate option when necessary.)

Open BD3D2MK3D and verify that the Settings -> BDSup2Sub -> Use BDSup2Sub.jar option is selected. (That should be the case according to the log file you have posted.)

In BD3D2MK3D, use the menu "Subtitle tools -> Convert Subtitles to 3D (with 3D-Planes/OFS)". Select the XML file you have just created in step 2 as the Input subtitle stream". Set the output file format to BD SUP and enter the output file name. (You should save it in the Avatar\XXXXX project folder.) Define also the 3D-Plane (OFS) file to use. (You can see what file to use near the end of the 3D-Planes.log file created by BD3D2MK3D when the project has been created, or in the first tab of BD3D2MK3D when the movie is loaded.) Verify the other options and convert the subtitles to 3D.

Just to be sure, open the 3D SUP file in any version of BDSup2Sub, and verify if the subtitles look correct.

Now, open "__ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs" in a text editor or notepad. You should see the following lines:

##LoadPlugin(D:\Tcl\work\BD3D2MK3D\toolset\VSFilter.dll")
#LoadPlugin("D:\Tcl\work\BD3D2MK3D\toolset\SupTitle.dll")

[...]

# Hardcode subtitles
##VobSub(".sub")
#SupTitle(".sup")

Change them like this:

##LoadPlugin(D:\Tcl\work\BD3D2MK3D\toolset\VSFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\Tcl\work\BD3D2MK3D\toolset\SupTitle.dll")

[...]

# Hardcode subtitles
##VobSub(".sub")
SupTitle("your_3D_subtitle_stream.sup")

(where your_3D_subtitle_stream.sup is the final 3D SUP file created in step 4.)
Launch __ENCODE_3D_LAUNCHER.cmd as usual.

This method should work. At least, it works with the French subtitles from my version of Avatar.

Good luck!

[r0lZ]

OK, here is the new version that should convert the Avatar and other difficult subtitles to 3D correctly.

Note that now, BDSup2Sub++ is used by default when a BD SUP file is opened, as the Java version has too many bugs. Unfortunately, BDSup2Sub++ opens an useless command prompt window when it starts. I have added a little tool (HideWindow.exe) written in AutoHotkey in the toolset folder to close it immediately, and restore the focus to the window that had it when BDSup2Sub++ stole it, but it is not possible to avoid it completely. There is therefore an annoying flash when BD3D2MK3D converts the BD SUP files to 3D or to DVD SUB. I think that that annoyance is better than risking to produce bad 3D subtitles.

Note also that the Java version of BDSup2Sub is still necessary to convert the XML/PNG 3D subtitles to the final BD SUP or DVD SUB format, as BDSup2Sub++ has a big bug when it loads the XML/PNG format. Luckily, it seems that the Java version is OK for that job.

It's an important new version of BD3D2MK3D, as it fixes other problems as well, and it includes a new subtitle tool: Combine Multiple PDS/ODS definitions. It is used internally when there are several subtitles appearing AT THE SAME TIME on screen. It merges them as a single subtitle, and modifies the XML file accordingly. I have added a GUI to use it yourself if you need it, but you should never need it for the subtitles converted to 3D automatically by BD3D2MK3D.

I have released this version now, because hiltr0n may need it to convert its Avatar BD, but I have not tested it carefully, so some bugs can be present. Let me know if there are still some problems when encoding with x264 in hardware mode, and if the subtitles conversions work as expected.

v1.5 (January 15, 2018)
- BD3D2MK3D uses now an "universal" method to convert the subtitles to 3D or DVD SUB, that should hopefully work well in all cases. As a consequence, it is not possible any more to select the preferred version of BDSup2Sub, as the Java or C++ version is used automatically when appropriate.
- New Subtitle tool: Combine Multiple PDS/ODS definitions, used to merge the multiple subtitles (and used internally by the new universal conversion method). See help for more info.
- When a 2D BD Sup subtitle file is muxed in the final MKV, the original Sup extracted from the BD is now used instead of the converted .2D.sup file, to avoid the bugs of BDSup2Sub.
- The audio conversion and the logic used to build the labels of the audio tracks in the final MKV have been rewritten completely and improved. This fixes several bugs introduced with the conversion to Pro-Logic and Stereo in v1.3.
- Updated eac3to and its associated libraries to the latest version (v3.34)
- Updated the Mkvtoolnix exes to the latest version (v19.0.0)
- Updated tsMuxeR to the latest version (v2.6.11)

Download: BD3D2MK3D.7z (http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/BD3D2AVS/BD3D2MK3D.7z)

[hiltr0n]

Wow! Thanks for the quick reply. I'll set it encoding tonight and verify.

[hubblec4]

...Unfortunately, BDSup2Sub++ opens an useless command prompt window when it starts. I have added a little tool (HideWindow.exe) written in AutoHotkey in the toolset folder to close it immediately, and restore the focus to the window that had it when BDSup2Sub++ stole it, but it is not possible to avoid it completely. There is therefore an annoying flash when BD3D2MK3D converts the BD SUP files to 3D or to DVD SUB. I think that that annoyance is better than risking to produce bad 3D subtitles.

I use also BDSup2Sub++ for some jobs and the command prompt is not shown when the GUI is opened.
A simple command: HideWindow:=true.


EDIT:
The latest Windows version of tsMuxeR is 2.6.12 (https://forum.videohelp.com/attachments/44412-1516034881/tsMuxeR_2.6.12(Windows).7z)

------------ Network Optix tsMuxeR 2.6.12 ----------------------
- several minor bugs fixed

[r0lZ]

A simple command: HideWindow:=true
That may work with some languages or environments, but I have no way to issue this command from Tcl/Tk.
But thanks for the hint!
The latest Windows version of tsMuxeR is 2.6.12 (https://forum.videohelp.com/attachments/44412-1516034881/tsMuxeR_2.6.12(Windows).7z)
Is it an official release? In the official tsMuxeR thread (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168539), the latest version is still 2.6.11.

[hubblec4]

Is it an official release? In the official tsMuxeR thread (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168539), the latest version is still 2.6.11.

I can't say this surely, but I'm sure I downloaded this version from the tsMuxeR thread for many years.

[r0lZ]

Ooops, I did an error. I don't know if v2.6.11 or v2.6.12 is the latest official release, but I forgot that I have banned that two versions due to a big bug. In the dialog that shows the version of tsMuxeR that is distributed with BD3D2MK3D, you will see this:

---------------------------
BD3D2MK3D
---------------------------
Network Optix tsMuxeR. Version 2.6.11. www.networkoptix.com

WARNING: Do NOT use v2.6.11 or v2.6.12 as they have a big bug with the time codes of the subtitle streams of some BDs. The last known good version is v2.6.9.

Visit home page?
---------------------------
Yes No
---------------------------

I forgot that bug, but I should NOT have updated it to v2.6.11, and I don't want v2.6.12 either. I will immediately release a new version of BD2D2MK3D with v2.6.9, as it should.

[hubblec4]

Thanks for this Info.

[r0lZ]

OK, here is the latest GOOD version of BD3D2MK3D, that includes tsMuxeR v2.6.9 again.

I have not updated the version number, as BD3D2MK3D itself has not changed. Please download this version if you have already downloaded v1.5 before today, January 15, 2018 at 19:10 GMT.

Download: BD3D2MK3D.7z (http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/BD3D2AVS/BD3D2MK3D.7z)

[hiltr0n]

Thanks r0lZ. I tried the new build and got the error pasted below. I subsequently tried the manual method and it appears the BDSup2Sub++ hangs when I try to load the subtitle file. I tried both one that I manually extracted with MKVTools and the one extracted in the BD3D2MK3D project folder with similar results. Later today I'm going to try on another machine to see if it is that. I can upload the subtitle file if you'd like to see if it works on yours.

Job finished Mon Jan 15 23:06:15 MST 2018
Whole job took 9 minutes and 32 seconds.

Done with warnings!

* Can't convert "MKV3D.track_3.Eng.sup" to 3D BD SUP!

[r0lZ]

Strange. I did Avatar with hardburned French subtitles without much problems.
I can upload the subtitle file if you'd like to see if it works on yours.
Yes, please do it, and send me the link via PM (for copyright reasons). I will try it with the different versions of BDSup2Sub I have here.

[hiltr0n]

PM sent

[frank]

The subs from Avatar are really somewhat strange.

AFAIK there were errors with end time.
I solved the problem by using an older version of BDSup2Sub.jar. ->v4.01
Read the Avatar sup with BDSup2Sub401.jar and store again. That worked.

[hubblec4]

So many issues with all the BDSup2Sub editions, nobody there who will write a better SUP-Tool?

[hiltr0n]

So did a few more tests with other versions of BDSups2Sub and they all crash, or have the same error. The closest I've gotten is with the latest version of BD3D2MK3D. It extracts the PNG files into a folder but doesn't complete the temp_2D.xml file or the SUP conversion. Kind of at a loss.

[hiltr0n]

Ok, tried one last thing. I think my previous issues were because when I ripped my BD in MakeMKV, I only selected the forced subtitles checkbox. I re-ripped the BD with both tracks (normal subs and forced). I created a MD3D2MK3D project with that new MKV + sub track and it created the files and scripts accurately, but I couldn't see an option to only do forced on that one. So I did the manual method as well and extracted / converted only the forced subtitles and replaced the old ones with the new ones and updated the script files. It's converting now so I'll see if it worked tomorrow morning, but this is the closest I've gotten.

[r0lZ]

OK, so it seems that MakeMKV has trouble extracting the forced subtitles from the original (complete) stream. It's not really astonishing, because the Avatar subtitles are really bizarre. Here is what I know about the Avatar subtitles and the various versions of BDSup2Sub++ I've tested.

BDSupsSubEnhanced and BDSup2Sub++ v1.0.2 can handle the subtitles with "multiple PDS/ODS definitions" (several different subtitles appearing at the same time on screen). BDSup2Sub.jar and all versions of BDSup2Sub++ before 1.0.2 as well as 1.0.2a cannot handle them, and they issue only a warning. (BDSup2SubEnhanced is theoretically able to handle them, but it cannot save them to XML/PNG, so it's not a good choice.) Since BD3D2MK3D uses now only BDSup2Sub++ 1.0.2 to read the original SUP streams, it should be able to process them correctly. Furthermore, since there is only a single 3D-Plane per subtitle stream in a BD3D, all subtitles appearing at the same time on screen must share the same depth, and therefore I guess that multiple ODS are probably never used for 3D movies.

Unfortunately, BDSup2Sub++ has some troubles when it reads some subtitle streams, notably the Avatar streams. It finds multiple ODS when there is only a single ODS (false positives). Therefore, when it converts the subtitle stream to XML/PNG, it creates several bitmaps for the same subtitle, but all of them but one are useless. And it includes them in the XML file, with several problems as well, such as width, height, X and Y positions being 0, or references to non-existing PNG files. So, when the latest version of BD3D2MK3D (v1.5) converts the subtitles to 3D, it checks the XML for that kind of errors, and if it find at least one bad definition, it converts the original BD SUP stream again to BD SUP format with BDSup2Sub++. That fixes "magically" the problem of the fake multiple ODS. (If there are REAL multiple ODS in the original stream, they are preserved.) Then, the new SUP is converted again to XML/PNG, this time without problem. BD3D2MK3D merges then the remaining multiple subtitles (if any) to form single subtitles, so that the problem of the multiple ODS can be ignored. BD3D2MK3D creates then a new XML/PNG stream with the PNGs converted to 3D and a new XML file. To convert that XML/PNG stream back to BD SUP (or to DVD SUB), it must use BDSup2Sub.jar, as ++ has another bug. When ++ imports the PNGs, it crops the fully transparent parts of the subtitles, but it fails when it modifies the Width, Height, X and Y coordinates accordingly, and the final stream has the subtitles at wrong positions. (That bug happens only when the subtitles are cropped, but it's a problem that cannot be easily detected.) Luckily, the Java versions of BDSup2Sub has not that bug, and BD3D2MK3D uses it for the last conversion. Conclusion: It is possible to convert any BD SUP file to XML/PNG and then back to SUP by using the right version of BDSup2Sub for each step, and using a tool I've written to merge the multiple ODS together.

If you need to do convert the streams manually to XML/PNG, just remember to always use BDSup2Sub++ to convert the original SUP to XML/PNG, then use the new BD3D2MK3D subtitle tool "Combine Multiple PDS/ODS Definitions" (or use the little standalone CLI exe I've released here (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1829010#post1829010)) to verify if there are buggy multiple subtitles or merge the real multiple subtitles. Do whatever you need to do with the XML/PNG stream, and use BDSup2Sub.jar to convert the edited XML/PNG to your final format.

Last thing to note: Avatar, as well as a few other 3DBD, has the subtitle streams TWO times. They are in the 2D M2TS file with the AVC video stream and the audio streams, like all other 3DBDs. But they are also in the second M2TS file that should normally contain ONLY the MVC video stream. And the two versions OF THE SAME STREAM have the same stream ID! Therefore, when a demuxer needs to extract a specific subtitle stream from a SSIF with the AVC and MVC streams, if finds two times the same stream. I guess that it's the source of the many problems encountered with the Avatar 3DBD. If it's true, that mean they you should never encounter fake multiple ODS when you process a 2D BD with MakeMKV, tsMuxeR or eac3to.

I don't know why MakeMKV cannot extract correctly the forced subtitles from the AVatar BD, but it's almost certainly caused by the double subtitle streams and the related problem of the false positives multiple ODS. I will add a note in the explanation of how to use MakeMKV with BD3D2MK3D to explain that if there are problems when converting the subtitles, it is necessary to re-rip the BD with the complete subtitle streams ONLY. It's the only thing I can do.

[r0lZ]

I created a MD3D2MK3D project with that new MKV + sub track and it created the files and scripts accurately, but I couldn't see an option to only do forced on that one.
You can select the forced subtitles only in tab 2 (if you just want to include them as a subtitle stream), or in the drop-down menu of the last tab if you want to burn them in the video stream. I suppose that MakeMKV keeps the individual Forced flags when it creates the MKV, so that should work.

I will try to do what you have tried with my Avatar 3DBD, to verify if I can reproduce the problem you had, and if selecting the complete subtitle stream is sufficient to solve the problem. Perhaps I will also be able to detect the problem before the crash, but I don't think so...

[EDIT] Sorry, I was wrong. With a MKV as input, there is no way to select only the forced subtitles from a "complete" subtitle stream. I will try to add that option, if MakeMKV keeps the individual Forced flags.

[von Suppé]

..."multiple PDS/ODS definitions" (several different subtitles appearing at the same time on screen).
Hi r0lZ, can you tell me which lines / timecodes those are?

cheers

[r0lZ]

Hi r0lZ, can you tell me which lines / timecodes those are?
I don't understand. My post above is not related to a specific 3DBD. And as far as I know, all multiple ODS in Avatar are false positive.

If you want a sample of a (real) multiple ODS, download my standalone "Combine Multiple ODS" tool here (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1829010#post1829010). The archive contains samples of several problematic subtitles, including a sample from Avatar and a simple stream with a double subtitle.

[hiltr0n]

Update: my file works and now has burned in only forced subtitles. It definitely was because I had MakeMKV do the forced subtitles only at that stage. If you add the forced sub only in the hard burn section, that would be awesome. In my experience too, MakeMKV does maintain the forced subtitle flags. The workaround fixed the issue, although I may have to re-do it because I didn't use the java version of BDSup2Sub for the XML/PNG conversion. I'm doing full SBS so not sure if it is cropping it or not. But at least I know I can get the subtitles burned in now. Thanks for your assistance.

[von Suppé]

Ok, I misunderstood. Will download your mentioned tool. Thank you.

Another question: I'm using your "Clone Subtitle Positions" tool a lot. It works terrificly.
However, in some cases, I would like the possibility to only take over the "horizontal" placement and be able to choose the vertical alignment myself. I do this by creating xml/png files, where I specify the wanted bottom offset myself.

If possible, would it be much trouble to adjust your tool, so that there is a choice to pick horizontal - (or vertical) offset only, or both, to clone/take over?

PS Your mentioned "problem of the multiple ODS bug" and fixtool, are these auto-checked and -executed in your latest BD3D2MK3D?

[r0lZ]

The workaround fixed the issue, although I may have to re-do it because I didn't use the java version of BDSup2Sub for the XML/PNG conversion.
AFAIK, the cropping bug doesn't happen with Avatar. It happens only with the subtitles that are included in a wider fully transparent bitmap. (You can normally see that in the GUI of BDSub2Sub: the wellow border is larger than the subtitle text itself.) That's relatively rare, except in 3DBDs from the Asian market, and some musical DBs (like the German 3DBD "The Scorpions live in 3D").

So, normally, you can safely launch the encoding of the project as you have it.

I'm not sure I will add the option to extract the forced subs in MakeMKV mode, as that will be confusing, and, as you will see in a following post, the problem you had seems very rare.

[r0lZ]

Another question: I'm using your "Clone Subtitle Positions" tool a lot. It works terrificly.
However, in some cases, I would like the possibility to only take over the "horizontal" placement and be able to choose the vertical alignment myself. I do this by creating xml/png files, where I specify the wanted bottom offset myself.

If possible, would it be much trouble to adjust your tool, so that there is a choice to pick horizontal - (or vertical) offset only, or both, to clone/take over?
That's not a bad idea. And I have already wanted to do that sometimes, because otherwise the subtitles are not always correctly aligned in Y (for example when a single line uses a double-line subtitle from the guide to grab its position). But note that if you restrict the tool to work only for the X coordinates, the (rare) subtitles that are on the top of the screen in the guide will not be moved. That may and probably will be a problem.

PS Your mentioned "problem of the multiple ODS bug" and fixtool, are these auto-checked and -executed in your latest BD3D2MK3D?Yes, the standalone tool is exactly identical to the new subtitle tool integrated in BD3D2MK3D, and now, BD3D2MK3D is able to avoid the false positive of multiple ODS bug and to merge the real multiple ODS as single subtitles automatically during the creation of the project. Also, note that real multiple ODS are very rare (except in Japanimation).

Don't worry. You need to use the tool manually only if you convert yourself a problematic subtitle stream to XML/PNG.

[r0lZ]

My test with Avatar through MakeMKV is finished. I have selected the English and French complete and forced-only streams (therefotre a total of 4 streams) in MakeMKV. BD3D2MK3D has been able to convert them all, but with some difficulties.

Here is the log for the conversion to 3D of the English Forced stream. (The logs for the other streams are almost identical.)

In red, the interesting parts:

*** Converting "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.sup" to 3D BD SUP. Please wait!
*** Converting subtitle file "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.sup" to 3D SBS using 3D-plane "3D-Plane-00.ofs" + additional depth 0...
Subtitle language: eng (English)
*** Converting subtitle "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.sup" to "temp_2D.xml"...
> "D:\\Tcl\\work\\BD3D2MK3D\\toolset\\BDSup2Sub++.exe" --palette-mode keep --minimum-time 0 --language en --force-all set --fps-source 24p --fps-target 24p -o "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D_2D/temp_2D.xml" "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.sup"
BDSup2Sub++ 1.0.2
OPTION: Set language to English (en)
OPTION: synchronize target framerate to 24p
OPTION: Converting framerate from 23.976fps to 23.976fps
OPTION: Set minimum display time to 0
OPTION: Set palette mode to keep
OPTION: Set forced state of all captions to: set
Converting XML/PNG
Loading E:/BD3D2MK3D_projects/Avatar/MKV3D/MKV3D.track_5.Eng.sup
Detected 83 forced captions.
Writing E:/BD3D2MK3D_projects/Avatar/MKV3D/MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D_2D\temp_2D.xml
WARNING: fade out detected -> patched palette
Writing E:/BD3D2MK3D_projects/Avatar/MKV3D/MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D_2D\temp_2D.xml
There was 2 warnings
Conversion of 1 file(s) finished
*** Found 96 captions, including 83 forced captions.
Checking "temp_2D.xml" for false positive of multiple ODS (the "Avatar" bug)...
WARNING: Bad Graphics coordinates detected in event #2.
BDSup2Sup++'s multiple ODS bug detected. Converting the original SUP file to a temp SUP to avoid it...
*** Converting subtitle "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.sup" to "tmp.sub"...
> "D:\\Tcl\\work\\BD3D2MK3D\\toolset\\BDSup2Sub++.exe" --palette-mode keep --minimum-time 0 --language en --force-all set --fps-source 24p --fps-target 24p -o "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D_2D/tmp.sub" "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.sup"
BDSup2Sub++ 1.0.2
OPTION: Set language to English (en)
OPTION: synchronize target framerate to 24p
OPTION: Converting framerate from 23.976fps to 23.976fps
OPTION: Set minimum display time to 0
OPTION: Set palette mode to keep
OPTION: Set forced state of all captions to: set
Converting SUB/IDX
Loading E:/BD3D2MK3D_projects/Avatar/MKV3D/MKV3D.track_5.Eng.sup
Detected 83 forced captions.
Writing E:/BD3D2MK3D_projects/Avatar/MKV3D/MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D_2D\tmp.sub
WARNING: fade out detected -> patched palette
Writing E:/BD3D2MK3D_projects/Avatar/MKV3D/MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D_2D\tmp.idx
There was 2 warnings
Conversion of 1 file(s) finished
*** Found 96 captions, including 83 forced captions.
Converting the temp SUP file to XML/PNG. This time, the conversion should work.
*** Converting subtitle "tmp.sub" to "temp_2D.xml"...
> "C:\\ProgramData\\Oracle\\Java\\javapath\\java.exe" -Xmx256m -jar "D:\\Tcl\\work\\BD3D2MK3D\\toolset\\BDSup2Sub.jar" "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D_2D/tmp.sub" -o "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D_2D/temp_2D.xml" --palette-mode keep --minimum-time 1 --language en --force-all set --convert-fps 24p,24p
Loading E:\BD3D2MK3D_projects\Avatar\MKV3D\MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D_2D\tmp.sub
Detected 96 forced captions.
Writing E:\BD3D2MK3D_projects\Avatar\MKV3D\MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D_2D\temp_2D.xml
Writing E:\BD3D2MK3D_projects\Avatar\MKV3D\MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D_2D\temp_2D.xml
Conversion finished.
*** Found 96 captions, including 96 forced captions.
Converting the multiple ODS events to single events in "temp_2D.xml"...
No multiple ODS found in "temp_2D.xml".
*** Adding 3D depth info from "3D-Plane-00.ofs" to "temp_2D.xml"...
Source 3D-plane: 3D-Plane-00.ofs
Min depth: 2
Max depth: 46
Average depth: 12.54
Number of warnings for undefined frame's depth: 0
Number of subtitles processed: 96
Number of forced subs: 96
Frame rate of the stream: 24.0
Frame rate used to convert the drop frames timecodes to frame numbers: 24.0

*** Converting "temp_2D.xml" to 3D...
Input file: temp_2D.xml
Stereoscopy mode: Side by Side (left view first)
Additional or fixed depth: 0
Resize filter: Mitchell
Number of subtitles processed: 96
Conversion of 2D XML/PNG files to 3D using ImageMagick took 27 seconds (00:00:27)
*** Converted 96 subtitles to 3D-SBS. No errors. :-)
*** Trying to determine the best DVD palette for BDSup2Sub VobSub conversions from the single PNG image #32 in directory "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D_2D"...
> Found colour #10/#11 in image "temp_2D_0032.png" (subtitle #32):
Primary (lighter) colour: 250,250,51
Secondary (darker) colour: 187,187,17
Debug: Nearest colour in default palette: 250,250,51 (Distance: 0)
Debug: Histogram:
65666: ( 0, 0, 0) #000000 black
2360: (187,187, 17) #BBBB11 srgb(187,187,17)
12029: (250,250, 51) #FAFA33 srgb(250,250,51)
*** Modified 2 colour pairs in the default DVD palette for VobSub conversions.
Saving file "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.palette.ini"...
Saving file "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.palette++.ini"...
*** Converting subtitle "temp.3D.xml" to "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D.sup"...
> "C:\\ProgramData\\Oracle\\Java\\javapath\\java.exe" -Xmx256m -jar "D:\\Tcl\\work\\BD3D2MK3D\\toolset\\BDSup2Sub.jar" "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D.3D/temp.3D.xml" -o "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D.sup" --palette-mode keep --minimum-time 1 --language en --convert-fps 24p,24p
Loading E:\BD3D2MK3D_projects\Avatar\MKV3D\MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D.3D\temp.3D.xml
Writing E:\BD3D2MK3D_projects\Avatar\MKV3D\MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D.sup
Conversion finished.
*** Converted 96 captions.
Deleting temp 3D XML/PNG directory "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.3D.3D".
*** Done. Converted 96 subtitles to 3D-SBS. No errors. :-)
Full conversion took 40 seconds (00:00:40)

* All captions in stream "MKV3D.track_5.Eng.sup" are forced.
Forcing the forced flag.

As you can see, BDSup2Sub++ has created wrong entries in the XML, and BD3D2MK3D has detected them. It has then converted the original SUP to a temp SUP, and converted that temp SUP to XML/PNG, again with ++, this time without problem. In the new XML/PNG, there is no multiple ODS any more, so that stream has not been modified. The final conversion to the 3D SUP has been made with BDSup2Sub.jar without problem.

It's exactly what I expected. The same thing has happened when I have converted the decrypted ISO, so it appears that, at least with my version of the BD, you can use MakeMKV to decrypt the movie, including the forced subtitle streams. I don't know what happened with hiltr0n's BD, but I'm unable to reproduce that problem.

There is however a strange thing that I've noticed. When the subtitles streams are converted to XML/PNG with ++, the progress is (relatively) fast during the first 90% of the process, and then it becomes suddenly very slow. But it has reached the end of the conversion without problem.

Also, I note that there are a few subtitles in the complete streams that come from the subtitle stream included in the MVC M2TS. They are full-size 1920x1080 subtitles with "Please turn on your 3D-glasses and put them on now." They are not forced and appear near 0:00:30 in the movie. Unfortunately, I have no way to detect and remove them. I guess that it's for that reason that these streams are so difficult to convert. They interfere with the 2D subtitle stream in the AVC M2TS.

Anyway, with my version of the Avatar 3DBD, things work as expected with the latest version of BD3D2MK3D, with a decrypted ISO or a MKV created by MakeMKV, so I don't think I'll modify it again.

[hiltr0n]

Understood. I've converted a fair amount of 3D movies with this tool and this is the first time any of the forced subs have given me any problem so I agree that this is quite rare. I'm going to blame it on the Papyrus font they used :D. I have a working full SBS MKV with burned in forced subtitles. Nice to know the manual process for rare cases like Avatar.

[von Suppé]

As it happens I too have been struggling with the Avatar subtitles. It's one of the 3D movies why I asked r0lZ in my earlier post for a feature in the XY coordinates-processing in one of his tools.
The standard SUPs are displayed way to high, IMO.
Man, have I been busy. OCR-ing the SUPstreams, edit/correcting text, timings, exporting to ASS, adding fonts, creating ASS styles, exporting to SUP. From SUP to XML/PNG. Then cloning positions, remuxing again... pfffff. Lot of work!! And for two languages, that is. I can almost word-for-word say each line perfectly :o

hubblec4 said:So many issues with all the BDSup2Sub editions, nobody there who will write a better SUP-Tool?
I agree fully, I'd also welcome a handy knife that will let you do whatever you want with SUP or XML/PNG files, for that matter. A real-time preview screen during editing/creating is a must.

But note that if you restrict the tool to work only for the X coordinates, the (rare) subtitles that are on the top of the screen in the guide will not be moved. That may and probably will be a problem.
Well, I always keep an eye out for subtitles that are placed on top of the screen. Then, ASS comes in handy as you can use a style to these specific lines. Vertical alignment is specified by your wishes and only applied to the lines with that style.

On the other hand, it is possible to output & OCR SUP lines that only are in the lower half of the picture. So I can imagine SUP lines that are only in the upper half can be output also. If one wants, those 2 SUP files can be processed separately. After you have your separate, wanted SUP- or XML/PNG files (one for the lower and one for the upper half) you would have to merge them, of course. I don't know if that is possible, but I would be very happy if merging SUP- and/or XML/PNG files would be possible.
As you have maybe read my Avatar subtitle experience, you can imagine that such a tool would be very much appreciated.

[r0lZ]

As it happens I too have been struggling with the Avatar subtitles. It's one of the 3D movies why I asked r0lZ in my earlier post for a feature in the XY coordinates-processing in one of his tools.
I understand your wishes, but Avatar is probably the bad example for the need to move the subtitles. The original 3D subtitles are carefully placed on screen so that they do not enter in the objects or characters in the foreground. The depth of an individual subtitle has been defined for the precise position of that subtitle, and if it is moved elsewhere, chances are that it will not be in a gap between the foreground objects, and you will ruin the 3D effect. This is especially true if you move the subtitles globally down, as usually, there are more objects in the bottom of the foreground.

IMO, restricting the displacement of the subtitles in a specific direction should be used only when the original subtitles are always on the same horizontal line and are only moved to the left or right to avoid to enter in some foreground objects. In that case, grabbing the position of new subtitles from that stream without restricting the Y may give the impression that the subtitles are not correctly aligned along the Y axis.
I agree fully, I'd also welcome a handy knife that will let you do whatever you want with SUP or XML/PNG files, for that matter. A real-time preview screen during editing/creating is a must.
A good wysiwyg subtitle editor is Aegisub, but it works with SSA/ASS subtitles only, and it has no support for the 3D depth.

[frank]

Attention!
MKVToolNix (used in BD3D2MK3D) has removed features.
# Version 20.0.0 "I Am The Sun" 2018-01-15

* Feature removal: several deprecated features have been removed:
...
* all command line tools: support for the deprecated, old, proprietary format
used for option files
...Now the __MUX_3D_OPTIONS file must be in JSON format. Don't update MKVToolNix files, or you have to change BD3D2MK3D.

[r0lZ]

Damn! Thanks for the hint!

[Rexian]

Hi r0lZ, do you have any plans to add an option in future BD3D2MK3D version to avoid re-encoding and build the frame-packed MKV just with the frames available in the original ISO (AVC+MVC)? I don't know if it's possible for frame-packed but makemkv seems to have found a way to do it for their mkv. I tried an mkv out of makemkv and m2ts out of tsmuxer of the same BD3D on my LG E6's internal player and it was able play those in 2D so the file generated is backward compatible and I could play both of them in 3D using mpc-hc so 3D works as well in the players that support them. Thanks!

[r0lZ]

I have to analyse the possibilities of MakeMkv. But if it's only the latest version that can do that, I will not be able to use it, for the reason highlighted by Frank here (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1831196#post1831196). (I may change later the format of the MUX_OPTIONS files to be compatible with Mkvtoolnix v20+, but it's not currently in my todo list.)

Also, since you want to just remux the ORIGINAL AVC + MVC streams as a (big) MK3D, you can already use MakeMKV for that job. It does that very well, and it is still free if you use the key offered regularly here (http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1053). Just add the MVC stream in the list of streams to mux (as it is disabled by default) and let it do its job.

So, if I implement AVC+MVC support in BD3D2MK3D, it should be with the possibility to re-encode the AVC and MVC streams. But that's a big job, so don't expect that soon! And note that only a few Windows players support that format. I'm not really interested in implementing it while no standalone player or TV can play it.

[Rexian]

Understood. I too would prefer a more universal format but not able to find something that looks good and my LG TV can play. HSBS was ok for my 55" LCD but on 65" I can see the jaggies. Yet to try SBS but the frame sequential file created with BD3D2MK3D didn't work on my E6, nor with mpc-hc/mpc-be.

[Tenker]

@ll

I have the movie "Geostorm.2017.3D" with the v1.5 converted.
Unfortunately, the 3D FORCED subtitles (00098.track_4624.Deu.3D.idx) are black.

https://www2.pic-upload.de/thumb/34708944/Image2.jpg (https://www.pic-upload.de/view-34708944/Image2.jpg.html)

The 2D FORCED subtitle (00098.track_4624.Deu.2D.idx) is white.

https://www2.pic-upload.de/thumb/34708943/Image1.jpg (https://www.pic-upload.de/view-34708943/Image1.jpg.html)

What do I have to change so that they appear white, like other subtitles?

https://www2.pic-upload.de/thumb/34708945/Image3.jpg (https://www.pic-upload.de/view-34708945/Image3.jpg.html)

Thanks and best regards
tenker

[r0lZ]

Strange! Yet another bug of BDSup2Sub. :-(

Try to load the ORIGINAL stream (without .2D or .3D extension) in BDSup2Sub++ or in BDSup2Sub.jar. (They are in the toolset folder.) Be sure to enable the Change Frame Rate option and set the FPS Source and FPS Target to 23.976. (It's necessary to avoid little timing problems.) Verify if the forced subtitles have the right color. If it's not the case, retry with the other version of BDSup2Sub. When it's correct, save them as a new temporary BD SUP file. Then, have a look at the end of the 3D-Planes.log file to identify the 3D-Plane to use for your stream, and use BD3D2MK3D -> Subtitle Tools -> Convert Subtitles to 3D (with 3D-Plane/OFS) to convert the 2D stream you have just created.

I note also that the images above are taken from an OCR program that accepts only DVD SUB/IDX. Converting to that format is not recommended, because it is less good than the original SUP, and it has to reduce the number of colours to 3 (plus the transparent background). That may be the cause of the problem. So, do the conversion in SUP format only, and if you really need the IDX/SUP stream, convert the final 3D SUP to DVD SUB. That should work.

If a specific version of BDSup2Sub produced the black subtitles, and if it works correctly with the BD SUP format, please let me know. I will try to convert the same stream myself, and see if I can find a solution to detect the problem automatically and, if it's possible, implement a workaround.

Anyway, thanks for the bug report!

[r0lZ]

Yet to try SBS but the frame sequential file created with BD3D2MK3D didn't work on my E6, nor with mpc-hc/mpc-be.The FS format is very special, and many players do not support it. It has been implemented mainly for some old projectors that do not support SBS or T&B.

Have you tested Full-SBS with your TV ? If it has frame buffers large enough, that's probably the best solution. (It's the case of all UHD (4K) 3D TVs, but unfortunately, many standard HD TVs do not support the Full formats.)

[Tenker]

Strange! Yet another bug of BDSup2Sub. :-(

Try to load the ORIGINAL stream (without .2D or .3D extension) in BDSup2Sub++ or in BDSup2Sub.jar. (They are in the toolset folder.) Be sure to enable the Change Frame Rate option and set the FPS Source and FPS Target to 23.976. (It's necessary to avoid little timing problems.) Verify if the forced subtitles have the right color. If it's not the case, retry with the other version of BDSup2Sub. When it's correct, save them as a new temporary BD SUP file. Then, have a look at the end of the 3D-Planes.log file to identify the 3D-Plane to use for your stream, and use BD3D2MK3D -> Subtitle Tools -> Convert Subtitles to 3D (with 3D-Plane/OFS) to convert the 2D stream you have just created.
...

I did as you suggested.

https://www2.pic-upload.de/thumb/34709669/Image4.jpg (https://www.pic-upload.de/view-34709669/Image4.jpg.html)

https://www2.pic-upload.de/thumb/34709671/Image5.jpg (https://www.pic-upload.de/view-34709671/Image5.jpg.html)

https://www2.pic-upload.de/thumb/34709670/Image6.jpg (https://www.pic-upload.de/view-34709670/Image6.jpg.html)


The result is what I need

https://www2.pic-upload.de/thumb/34709672/Image7.jpg (https://www.pic-upload.de/view-34709672/Image7.jpg.html)


...
I note also that the images above are taken from an OCR program that accepts only DVD SUB/IDX. Converting to that format is not recommended, because it is less good than the original SUP, and it has to reduce the number of colours to 3 (plus the transparent background). That may be the cause of the problem. So, do the conversion in SUP format only, and if you really need the IDX/SUP stream, convert the final 3D SUP to DVD SUB. That should work.
...


I use the Program Subtitle Edit just to check the SUB.

Thank you for your quick help.
Tenker

[r0lZ]

Thanks.

Are you sure you have used the latest version of BD3D2MK3D ? I have just reorganized the way the subtitles are processed, and now BDSup2Sub++ is used for the conversion of the original SUP to XML/PNG. As far as I know, only BDSup2Sub.jar has that wrong colour bug, and therefore the conversion of the subtitles to 3D should not exhibit that problem. Can you confirm that you have used a version older than the latest v1.5 to create the project ? If it's the case, I can assume that the new version works well. Otherwise, I will have to check again the new method, and that takes much time...

BTW, I did Geostorm with v1.5, without any problem with the colours of the (French) subtitles. I don't think the German subtitles are different. But perhaps you have another edition of the 3DBD.

[Tenker]

Yes, the v1.5.

I have sent you more information via PM.
Now I have made a Tet with all FORCED subtitles.
All forced subtitles are affected in my case ...
Normal subtitles are after conversion O.K.

[r0lZ]

All forced subtitles are affected in my case ...
Normal subtitles are after conversion O.K.It's even more strange, since the two MKV streams come from the same original SUP stream.

Yet another thing to confirm. Are you sure Java is properly installed on your PC ? You can verify it with Help -> Java Version. You should see the java version number.

The BDSup2Sub.jar is still used to convert the 3D XML/PNG stream back to the BD SUP format (or DVD SUB if you have requested that format). The problem can also come from that operation.

BTW, if you have not deleted the project folder yet, can you verify also the PNG files in the temp folder with the 2D XML/PNG stream ?

[Rexian]

The FS format is very special, and many players do not support it. It has been implemented mainly for some old projectors that do not support SBS or T&B.

Have you tested Full-SBS with your TV ? If it has frame buffers large enough, that's probably the best solution. (It's the case of all UHD (4K) 3D TVs, but unfortunately, many standard HD TVs do not support the Full formats.)

Yes, just tried now. Started the conversion last night after posting here. The file looks good with resolution 1920x2160, encoded at CRF 20 but doesn't play well in mpc-hc or mpc-be.

For some reason it doesn't take the entire width of the screen so after switching the TV to 3D-TAB mode manually, it shows good 3D but only for the center area with vertical black bars on both sides. So left it at that yesterday.

Today tried playing on the TV (LG E6) directly using the Emby app and the TV recognized it and switched to 3D mode automatically but with the vertical bars on the side, just like mpc-hc. So, the TV can handle 3D-TAB it seems but the players, both on PC and TV, are trying to maintain the weird 16:18 aspect ratio instead of 16:9 per eye. Am I missing any key configuration for TAB conversion? I checked the BD option, wonder if that could cause this.

Here is a screenshot.
http://i63.tinypic.com/250mn0n.jpg

[Tenker]

It's even more strange, since the two MKV streams come from the same original SUP stream.

Yet another thing to confirm. Are you sure Java is properly installed on your PC ? You can verify it with Help -> Java Version. You should see the java version number.

The BDSup2Sub.jar is still used to convert the 3D XML/PNG stream back to the BD SUP format (or DVD SUB if you have requested that format). The problem can also come from that operation.

BTW, if you have not deleted the project folder yet, can you verify also the PNG files in the temp folder with the 2D XML/PNG stream ?

1. Java Version is 8.0.1610.12

2. All * .png pictures in the folder
00098.track_4623.Fra.3D_2D
00098.track_4624.Deu.3D_2D
00098.track_4625.Ita.3D_2D
00098.track_4626.Spa.3D_2D
are white

3. Today I converted the BD 3D to a sample on another PC (Win1064Bit with all updates + BD3D2MK3D v1.5).
Unfortunately the same result = all Forced SUB are black.
Standart SUB 00098.track_4610.Deu.3D.sub is white.

Where is the mistake?

[r0lZ]

So, the TV can handle 3D-TAB it seems but the players, both on PC and TV, are trying to maintain the weird 16:18 aspect ratio instead of 16:9 per eye. Am I missing any key configuration for TAB conversion? I checked the BD option, wonder if that could cause this.[/url]
Unfortunately, there is no well established standard for the aspect ratio of Full-SBS or T&B. Some players want the aspect ratio of a single view, and others want it for the combined views. Try to play with the two settings in Settings -> Full-SBS/T&B Aspect Ratio.
And yes, there are two different aspect ratios. You have to find the good configuration for your players. (I suggest to encode a small clip for your tests.)

Good luck, and please report here what settings give the correct results for your TV and players.

[r0lZ]

Unfortunately the same result = all Forced SUB are black.
Standart SUB 00098.track_4610.Deu.3D.sub is white.

Where is the mistake?
I'm still investigating the problem. It is very bizarre that the final subtitles are black if the PNG images are correct. And why is that problem limited to forced subtitles only ?

I did Geostorm again yesterday, but unfortunately, BD3D2MK3D has crashed before the subtitle conversions due to a bug I have just introduced in the beta I am currently developing. I have just fixed the bug and will convert Geostorm a third time, with the German forced subs of course. Stay tuned...

[Tenker]

1000 x :thanks: r0IZ

[Rexian]

Unfortunately, there is no well established standard for the aspect ratio of Full-SBS or T&B. Some players want the aspect ratio of a single view, and others want it for the combined views. Try to play with the two settings in Settings -> Full-SBS/T&B Aspect Ratio.
And yes, there are two different aspect ratios. You have to find the good configuration for your players. (I suggest to encode a small clip for your tests.)

Good luck, and please report here what settings give the correct results for your TV and players.

Thanks r0ltZ! Will try again tonight. I just noticed __MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt has this -

--aspect-ratio
0:16/18

Can I change it to something else (like 0:16/9) and run __MUX_3D.cmd to avoid re-encoding? I am assuming Settings > Full-SBS/TAB Aspect Ratio would do something similar?