BD3D2MK3D v1.17: Convert 3D BDs or MKV to 3D SBS, T&B or Frame-sequential MKV

[r0lZ]

I sent again now from another mail.
pgcedit@gma... is this right?
Yes. I have received your mail. And I can confirm that the problem is that you have used the VSFilter option to hardcode the subtitles.

You can see the problem with BDSup2Sub: Open your SUP file in BDSup2Sub. (You can use Tools -> Open Subtitles in BDSup2Sub.) Select the subtitle #3 in the first dropdown menu in the top left corner of the BDSup2Sub window. Now, select the "SUP (BD)" output format in the 5th option box. The subtitle in the bottom pane should be exactly identical to the original subtitle in the upper pane. That's also what you will get if you use the SupTitle option in BD3D2MK3D. Now, select the SUB/IDX output format, and watch the change: the subtitle is now white in the bottom pane. That's what you get when using the VSFilter option in BD3D2MK3D, and obviously, it's not perfect.

So, to solve the problem, select Settings -> Hardcode Subtitle Method -> BD SUP (.SUP) using SupTitle. Read the warning, and if necessary, install the latest version of .NET. (Note that .NET v4+ is installed by default in Windows 8. It's only if you use Vista or Win7 that you may have to install the latest .NET manually.)

I am sorry, but you will have to compute the T&B video stream again. However, you don't need to restart everything over. You can simply edit the _ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs file. You should uncomment the 2 lines with the SupTitle word, and comment-out the 2 lines with VSFilter and VobSub, like this:

[...]

#LoadPlugin("D:\Install\MKV\BD3D\BD3D2MK3D\toolset\VSFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\Install\MKV\BD3D\BD3D2MK3D\toolset\SupTitle.dll")

[...]

# Hardcode subtitles
#VobSub("00001.track_4610.Rus.3D.sub")
SupTitle("00001.track_4610.Rus.3D.sup")

[...]

Then restart _ENCODE.cmd
That should work if .NET v4 or greater has been installed correctly.

[jmcguire525]

I'm usually pretty good with this kind of stuff but right now my brain doesn't seem to be working right so please excuse the noob questions...

I've got ~40 3d BD that I wan't to get stored on my NAS to play back in Kodi for android. Right now I am using a FireTV with T&B MKV files, but I have a 4K passive TV on the way that will be paired with the new Nvidia shield console that supports 4k and has hdmi 2.0.

Does anyone know if LG 4k tv's can handle Full T&B files and display them in passive 3D?

The first post mentions "properly decoded blu-ray 3D". Do I need to run the BD through another program before using this program?

I tried this program with a test file, just a 2 min clip I was able to pick out from an ISO of Monster House, but was only able to get audio in the file it output. DVDFab worked with the same file but ignored the black bars when making the T&B file which make it useless (Tried to manually select aspect ratio but it wouldn't work).

Thanks your yalls patience, just trying to see if I'm on the right track.

[youli]

@r0lZ, thanks for your research.


@jmcguire525
Internal USB flash player of TV can not play blu-ray ISO-images.
Someone says, that Samsung can play 3D SSIF-file renamed to mkv.
Someone says, that Home Media Server (HMS DLNA) can mount blu-ray ISO for play on TVs.

This program doing:
1) demuxing SSIF from blu-ray to standalone AVC, MVC and audio streams files
2) creating avisynth script and cmd file
3) encoding AVC and MVC to standaslone H.264 stream with combining them to one frame half over-under (1920x1080), half side-by-side (1920x1080), and for UHD TV - full over-under (1920x2160), full side-by-side (3840x1080) , I think UHD TV's USB flash player can play 1920x2160 and 3840x1080 in 3D
4) muxing H.264 stream and audio streams to snandalone mkv-file

It will play on Internal USB flash player of TV.
But! For encoding need a lot of time.
3 hrs movie with Core i7 need about 12-16 hrs for encoding to 1920x1080 by 1 pass.

Are you need it?

[r0lZ]

Welcome to the Doom9 forums, jmcguire525!

Sorry, I can't reply to your question about the hardware. I have only a relatively cheap Samsung Smart TV, that doesn't support Full-SBS/T&B. I have no way to test other hardware.
The first post mentions "properly decoded blu-ray 3D". Do I need to run the BD through another program before using this program?
BD3D2MK3D doesn't remove the protections, and therefore cannot process directly most original commercial 3DBDs. You need an unprotected ISO (that you can create with many BD copy programs and mount with the native Win8 ISO mounter or a specific ISO mounter under Vista or Win7). Another solution is to decode the original BD on the fly with AnyDVD HD (http://www.slysoft.com/en/anydvdhd.html). The problem of the black video can be caused by the fact that the original track was not decoded, but I'm not sure. Have you tried to play the video on your PC with a good software player? If the image is black here too, that means probably that the decoder is necessary.

Note also that you need a correct and complete 3DBD structure, with the BDMV/STREAM/SSIF folder. Copying the files on HDD usually doesn't work properly. You have to mount the ISO, and open the virtual drive in BD3D2MK3D.

I didn't know that DVDFab crops the black borders automatically! Another good reason to never use that program to rip your 3DBDs to SBS or T&B. Thanks for the info!

[r0lZ]

As you know already, the main additions in this version are the support for the x265 encoder, and the addition of some options in the Settings menu to control the muxing options of MkvMerge.

Please remember that x265 is still very new, not well adapted to 3D and somewhat unstable. Most hardware players refuse to play the video files encoded in h265 format. You should therefore use that new feature with caution and at your own risk!

Note also that the two MKV compatibility options --engage no_cue_duration and --engage no_cue_relative_position seem to be necessary for fast seeks with most hardware players, and are therefore set by default. If you don't need them, please check the Settings -> MKV Compatibility Options menu.

The SupTitle avisynth plugin is now the default when .NET v4 is correctly installed, because it is much better than the VSFilter to hardcode the subtitles on the video. (See the problem of the subtitle colors when using the VSFilter, reported by youli here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1714724#post1714724).) However, existing users will need to select the SupTitle option manually (with the Settings -> Hardcode Subtitle Method menu), because BD3D2MK3D doesn't modify automatically that setting if the config file has already been saved. (Be sure to install the Microsoft .NET framework v4 under Win7 or Vista if necessary. It should be installed by default under Win8.)

The other changes are minor, and include the update of several external programs.

# v0.63 (March 27, 2015)
# - Added support for encoding in HEVC with x265 (with some limitations due to x265.exe constraints).
# - Added the Settings -> MKV Compatibility Options menu to mux with a better compatibility if your player has troubles.
# - The SupTitle avisynth plugin is now the default instead of the VSFilter when BD3D2MK3D detects that .net v4 is available when it is run for the first time.
# - Added the (commented out) code to hardcode a subtitle stream in the avisynth script even when that option is not used.
# - Minor cosmetic changes
# - Updated MkvMerge and MkvPropEdit to the latest version (v7.7.0)
# - Updated eac3to to the latest version (v3.29)
# - Updated x264 to the latest version (v0.146.2538)
# - Added the latest build of x265 32 and 64-bit (build 2015-03-27)

Download: BD3D2MK3D.7z (http://download.videohelp.com/r0lZ/BD3D2AVS/BD3D2MK3D.7z)

[|1313|]

Can i ask wich version you are using for x265 64-bit? 16 bit or 8 bit and one more thing what is the diffrence?

[r0lZ]

8-bit. The number of bits here is the color depth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth): 8 bit per component = 24-bit for the 3 components = "truecolor" = approx 16 millions of colors.
16-bit offers a better quality (much more colors), but it is incompatible with most players, and it takes more disc space. Furthermore, there is no real advantage in using the 16-bit version if your source is 8-bit, especially if it is not resized.
IMO, 16-bit should be reserved to professionals. However, if you want to try it, you can download a 16-bit build, and rename it to x265_x64.exe, and replace the 8-bit version in the tools folder. BD3D2MK3D should be compatible with the 16-bit version (although I have never tried). Of course, do not complain if the final MKV is rejected by your hardware players. (Most software players should accept it.)

[|1313|]

I dont use a hardware player and i have already downloaded the 16 bit cause i tought that was the one that you used and i have already made one x265 mkv with BD3D2MK3D so it works i wanted to have the latest relaese of x265 thats why i download the latest builds :) Thanx for the answer :) I will do a comparsion after iam done with this rip :) One more thing what bitrate do you think compared to x264 is about same quality or better when using x265?

EDIT. I leeched down a none 3D movie in x265 and for me it seems small but i dont really know and same with bitrate.

Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 687 MiB
Duration : 1h 32mn
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 1 043 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2015-03-30 02:20:03
Tagged date : UTC 2015-03-30 02:20:03

Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main@L3.1
Codec ID : hvc1
Codec ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration : 1h 32mn
Bit rate : 976 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 20.9 Mbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 536 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.40:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 24.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.059
Stream size : 643 MiB (94%)
Writing library : x265 1.4+533-b6f36b277234d7f4:[Windows][GCC 4.9.2][64 bit]
Encoding settings : wpp / ctu=64 / tu-intra-depth=1 / tu-inter-depth=1 / me=3 / subme=3 / merange=57 / rect / no-amp / max-merge=3 / temporal-mvp / no-early-skip / no-fast-cbf / rdpenalty=0 / no-tskip / no-tskip-fast / strong-intra-smoothing / no-lossless / no-cu-lossless / no-constrained-intra / no-fast-intra / open-gop / no-temporal-layers / interlace=0 / keyint=250 / min-keyint=24 / scenecut=40 / rc-lookahead=25 / bframes=4 / bframe-bias=0 / b-adapt=2 / ref=3 / weightp / no-weightb / aq-mode=1 / aq-strength=1.00 / cbqpoffs=0 / crqpoffs=0 / rd=4 / psy-rd=0.30 / psy-rdoq=1.00 / signhide / lft / sao / no-sao-non-deblock / b-pyramid / cutree / rc=abr / bitrate=997 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / ipratio=1.40 / pbratio=1.30
EDIT.

[r0lZ]

Honestly, I have no idea of what bitrate could be comparable to an encoding with x264. I don't use x265 myself. I have added the possibility to use it in BD3D2MK3D at the request of an user. (Is it you? I don't remember.)

I did only a few tests in CRF mode. I have noticed that CRF 23 is the default for x264, and CRF 28 for x265. Therefore, I did a test with the two encoders with their respective default CRF values. I did my first test with x264 CRF 23, preset slower. (Usually, an encoding of a full movie with these settings lasts 7 or 8 hours on my computer.) Then, I launched a second test with x265 CRF 28 and preset slower too. But after about 30 minutes, x264 displayed a remaining time of more than 24 hours, and I have interrupted it. I relaunched it with preset medium, and this time it was reasonably fast. Finally, the size of the h265 stream was a little bit more than 1/3 of the size of the x264 stream. Good result, given the fact that the preset was "worse" for x265! I suppose that the two renderings were comparable in quality, and I was unable to see any difference, but I have not tried to compare the two renderings scientifically.

So, currently, I assume that 1/3 to 1/2 of the bitrate of x264 should be sufficient for x265. But I can't be sure. Anyway, I don't like to use 1 or 2-pass modes with specific bitrate values. CRF mode is MUCH better, because it "adapts itself" to the complexity of the movie. But I'm not the best person to reply to your question. I suppose you'll have more elaborated replies in the x264/x265 forums.

[|1313|]

I didnt ask for it i asked if you gonna add it in the future. But iam thankfull you did it. Me myself use CRF. And for me to rip a move takes approx 3-4 hours on slower with x264 i have intel core i7 4960x 3.60ghz cpu and 8 gb ram and a ssd disk. For x265 wich i have only tried in medium so far it takes about 2 hours and 30 mins doing a crf 25 now. Will try the CRF 23 on x264 and CRF 28 on the x265 later. I guess it depends on how long the movie are aswell. Will do this one in x264 using medium aswell.

[r0lZ]

Nice performance and thanks for the info.

[Thalyn]

Just a little observation from my recent tests (I still lurk here - always got to keep up!): FRIM is more robust now than DGMVC, and it may even be a little faster. This is at least true of FRIM 1.25, anyway. I would probably start setting it as the default.

My most recent 3D transcodes - Beauty and the Beast, and The Lion King - both had consistent issues with DGMVC returning blank output after certain points. Running them through multiple times always stalled at the same place (as Belle was being attacked by the wolves around half-way in BatB, just before the credits in TLK). FRIM handled it with no trouble at all. The only issue I did encounter with FRIM seemed to be that it didn't like starting a second transcode while in the same session of MeGUI, but that is easy enough to work around (close and reload MeGUI).

[r0lZ]

IMO, the speed should be identical in both cases, because the lengthy operations are made by the Intel lib, identical for the two decoders. But your experience with the Disney BDs is interesting. Maybe I'll change the default setting in BD3D2MK3D, but I would like to be sure that your experience is reproducible and is not due to other causes. Anyway, thanks for the report.

Someone has had a (good or bad) experience with DGMVCDecode or FRIMSource?

[Nico8583]

No problem for me with DGMVCDecode after more than 100 BDs.
I have Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King (decoded by me with DGMVCDec and encoded with x264), could you tell me where are issues ?

[r0lZ]

Thanks for the precision.

For Beauty and the Beast, look at Thalyn's post. He describes the point where the problem occurs with precision. But anyway, if you have not had any problem, that must be something else. Perhaps you have used different versions of DGMVCDecode, or just another tool to decrypt the blu-ray. Can you specify exactly what version of the decoder you have used, or what version of BD3D2MK3D? (BD3D2MK3D "signs" its conversion with a tag containing the version used to process the BD). Also, if you can specify what program and version you have used to decrypt the BD3D, that will help, Do you use AnyDVD HD? I suspect a problem with the decryption, as someone has reported a totally black output if the BD is processed without decrypting it first.

[Nico8583]

It would be most simple if Thalyn could tell me time position :-)
My software :
- AnyDVD HD to rip
- tsMuxeR 2.6.12
- DGMVCDec b21 (not the latest version but the previous, now I'm using last version) with software decoding
- AviSynth 2.5.8

[Thalyn]

I'd have to re-run them to get you the exact position. Without doing that all I can do is ballpark it. BatB would have been around the 47 minute mark, while TLK was closer to 1:22. It's pretty obvious if it happened as it causes everything from that point on to be black - just skip to the ending credits and if you can see them than it's worked fine.

There's a possibility it could have just been a scripting error on my part, though I don't believe it is (I've been using the same base script for quite some time now without issue). I still do all my transcodes pretty much by hand as I like to tweak things - like the offset blur I mentioned a while ago, plus I crop letterboxing - so maybe I made an error somewhere that artificially made it more error prone. It could also be that it only occurs when hardware decoding is in use. My scripting may also be responsible for the speed difference, so take that as merely an anecdote rather than hard evidence.

My software of choice:
- AnyDVD 7.5.9.0
- eac3to 3.29
- DGMVCDecode 1.0.0 b22 via hardware (Haswell "Iris" HD4600, driver 15.36.14.64.4080 - PS 15.36.18.64.4156 is available)
- FRIMSource 1.25
- AviSynth 2.6.0.4 alpha (2.6.0.6 RC2 available)
- MeGUI 2530 development update
- BD3D2MK3D 0.63 (natch - best subtitle tools around for 3D!)

[Nico8583]

I will try to see my encoded movies.
And main differences between your configuration and mine are hardware decoding / AviSynth so perhaps one of that.

[Nico8583]

So I have checked BatB and TLK and I have no problem. For BatB, wolves attack is OK until the end, for TLK I can see ending credits, so I think it's a hardware decoding or AviSynth problem...

[De_Hollander]

There is a bug with the subtitle colors,output from 2d to 3d sup and also to sub
the shadow is not black anymore, but light grey in bdsup2sub

extracted original sup file to 2d
http://i.imgur.com/38PNxqC.jpg

from 2d to 3d half-ou

http://i.imgur.com/3CYb9uW.jpg

[Thalyn]

@De_Hollander: Looks like the same basic issue Youli mentioned on the previous page, for the same reason. Good news is R0lZ already posted the cause and solution:
Hum, the problem of the color change is strange. I have never seen that. When the original SUP is converted to VobSub (IDX/SUB), relatively small differences in the colors are normal, because the VobSub format can only use 4 colors within a fixed palette of 16 colors. But when the subtitles are converted to BD SUP or XML/PNG, there should be no color differences.

So, to solve the problem, select Settings -> Hardcode Subtitle Method -> BD SUP (.SUP) using SupTitle. Read the warning, and if necessary, install the latest version of .NET. (Note that .NET v4+ is installed by default in Windows 8. It's only if you use Vista or Win7 that you may have to install the latest .NET manually.)

You can see in the screenshots you've posted that it's in SUB/IDX mode and limited to 4 colours, rather than being in SUP (BD) which would be full precision.

@Nico8583:
So I have checked BatB and TLK and I have no problem. For BatB, wolves attack is OK until the end, for TLK I can see ending credits, so I think it's a hardware decoding or AviSynth problem...
Could have been something stupid on my end as well. At least it's either isolated or easily worked around, so it's not really a big deal - just a possibility to be aware of.

[r0lZ]

Goedendag De_Hollander!

It's not really a bug. And anyway, it's a problem of BDSup2Sub, not of BD3D2MK3D. And I have already replied to a similar question here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1714724#post1714724).

The problem is that the subtitles in IDX/SUB format (aka VobSub or DVD format) use only 3 colours (plus a 4th colour, usually fully transparent) chosen in a palette of 16 colours. For whatever reason, BDSup2Sub uses always the same fixed palette of 16 colours, and it selects the 4 "best" colours from that palette. Often, some of these colours are not perfect, simply because there is no colour in the palette that matches the colour to emulate. (There is a similar problem with the transparency values, not as visible, but present too.) I agree that it doesn't do a good job here, but I'm not the author of BDSup2Sub.

IMO, that problem can be eliminated (at least partially) by generating a new palette based on the colours really necessary, instead of imposing a fixed palette for all conversions. But that's something that BD3D2MK3D can't do, and currently, as far as I know, it's not possible with BDSup2Sub, at least automatically. If you want that feature, try to contact the author of BDSup2Sub.

The best solution is to use the BD3D2MK3D option to convert the subtitles to BD SUP format instead of IDX/SUB. That format has no colours and transparency restrictions and therefore it can use all colours exactly as they are in the original stream. The price to pay is a less good compatibility with some players.

Another solution is to re-convert the original SUP file to 2D or 3D XML/PNG manually (or use the temp folder with the 2D XML/PNG files as the starting point), and then convert the XML/PNG to VobSub with BDSup2Sub's GUI. You can then use Edit -> Edit Default DVD Palette to change the 16-colours palette to define more suitable colours for your subtitle stream. (Do not use Edit DVD Frame Palette, as that works only for the current subtitle.)

I know that it is possible to save the default palette, but I have never found how to force BDSup2Sub to use a previously saved palette by default. Anyway, even if you create manually the "perfect palette" for a specific stream, there is no guarantee that it will be suitable for other streams.

I will try to find a solution based on the saved palette. But it's without guarantee...

[EDIT] I have not noticed the post by Thalyn before posting my reply, but he has given the solution too. Thanks Thalyn!

[r0lZ]

Could have been something stupid on my end as well. At least it's either isolated or easily worked around, so it's not really a big deal - just a possibility to be aware of.
Please keep us informed, and if the problem occurs again, try to describe exactly what you did. Thanks in advance!

(Of course, if you use only FRIMSource now and DGMVCDecode is really the culprit, the problem will probably never occur any more, but who knows?)

I'm also interested in results of speed tests, although I don't think that FRIMSource can be really faster than DGMVCSource.

[De_Hollander]

oke this is not working , in BD3D2MK3D>tools>convert subtitels to 3D (with 3D plane)
open the original sup check xml/png
then make the setting for the output.

en go

when it's finnish open BDSup2Sub_v5.1.2.jar go to the output where you have the xml/png
Then to the temp map *exp.3D_2D
Open it, set the output from BDSup2Sub_v5.1.2.jar to sub/idx

the problem i dont get 3d subs

Also not working:

in BD3D2MK3D>tools>convert subtitels to 3D (with 3D plane)
open the original sup check xml/png
then make the setting for the output.

en go

when it's finnish open BDSup2Sub_v5.1.2.jar go to the output where you have the xml/png
and open xml/png
the sub have the wrong color shadow in the preview to sub/idx

[De_Hollander]

when i open the 3d sup in bdsup2sub i can Edit DVD Frame Palette chose a better color black for the shadow en puss the button set all
all the subs have the colors

[r0lZ]

Oh, yes, I forgot to explain that you must convert the 2D XML to 3D XML. Not to 3D IDX/SUB!

So, IMO, the best procedure to select the colours manually is this:

Let BD3D2MK3D do its job. It will create the temp 2D XML/PNG, with the right depth values already included in the XML. (It will also create the IDX/SUB that you will overwrite during the last step of this mini guide.)
Load that temp 2D XML in Tools -> Convert subtitles to 3D (with 3D-Planes).
Select an output 3D file in XML/PNG format. (Be sure to save in a new directory!)
It is not necessary to select a 3D-Plane (unless you want to try another 3D-plane), because the 3D depth info is already in the input XML.
Convert to 3D. The 3D XML/PNG is created.
Up to that point, the subtitles have never been converted to IDX/SUB, so the 3D XML that you have just created has still the correct colours. Convert it manually to IDX/SUB with BDSub2Sub. It's in this operation that you have to modify the palette with Edit Default DVD Palette.

That's all.

Your method of changing the palette of the final IDX/SUB works too and is even simpler and faster, but it will give slightly less good results, because BDSup2Sub has used the original 16 colours palette to convert it to IDX/SUB the first time, and it has computed the best antialiasing possible with the 3 colours it has used. If you change those 3 colours later, the antialiasing may not be optimal. But anyway, usually it's not really visible, and there is no need to be very picky for the subtitles. After all, it's not the movie itself! So, use the method you prefer. And thanks for having posted your solution!

[De_Hollander]

oke thanks
is there an option to encode the 3d movie to half-ou with settings for bitrate?
How can i now what the rusults are. File size and bitrate?

[r0lZ]

Hum, I don't think so. When you convert a SUP to 3D sup, the colours are never reduced to the 16-colours palette, and therefore the original colours are respected. I convert all my BDs with 3D sup, and I have never had any problem with the colours or transparencies.

You have to convert manually only when you need the output file in IDX/SUB (VobSub) format.

You can verify all steps of the conversion to 3D:

The original SUP is converted to XML/PNG with BDSup2Sub: the colours are not modified.
BD3D2MK3D adds the depth tags to the XML. The colours are of course not modified.
The PNG files are converted to 3D with ImageMagick. The colours are respected (but the images are resized to half resolution, and that may mean some quality loss).
The XML of the 2D stream is modified and saved for the 3D PNGs. Of course, the colours are not modified.
Finally, the 3D XML/PNG stream is converted to the output format by BDSup2Sub. The colours are respected if the output format is BD SUP, but are reduced to 3 colours if the output format is VobSub.

In the second case of the last step ONLY the colours are not respected by BDSup2Sub, and you have to convert manually to use a better palette.

Try a full BD conversion again, and be sure to select the VobSub output format in tab 2 (or, better, select "both") and you will see that the colours are correct in the 3D SUP file (but not in the XML/SUB if you have selected "both").

[brochild]

I am trying to find the right words to thank you for this wonderful program.
I have looked all over the internet for solutions, including makemkv, dvdfab, and others to rip my 3D blue-rays.
I finally stumbled into this thread quite by accident.
So far this program is head and shoulders above all of them, for that I thank you again.
I have used 2blue-rays so far to test:
47 Ronin, and Captain America the Winter Soldier with great success.
However, both gave me the same 2d subtitle with a strange name 00800.track_4610.Fra.2d.idx for 47 Ronin and 00800.track_4610.Spa.2d.idx
I used PowerDVD14 to preview the mkv file.
If I take the same MKV file to create an ISO blue-ray image, I get all my sub titles correctly.

Please help - not sure what to do to resolve this.
When I looked at the _MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt file, for both Blue-rays, the file content looks correct.
SO what am I doing wrong?
I have tarred all of the log files, and hoping somebody smarter than I am can figure it out for me.
Please help, I'm almost there.
Thanks

[brochild]

PS
In both cases, I cannot see where the 00800.track_4610.Fra.2d.idx and the 00800.track_4610.Spa.2d.idx files are being called from.
Is it also coincidental the they are both track_4610?

[r0lZ]

You haven't explained what the problem is. You can't see the subtitles at all? Are they in 2D ("sticking on the surface of the screen")? Or something else? Anyway, here is a theoretical explanation of the subtitles formats used on the 3D BDs and in the MKV files created by BD3D2MK3D.

BD3D2MK3D can create two kinds of subtitles: 2D and 3D, in two formats: VobSub (aka IDX/SUB, the DVD format) and BD SUP (aka PGS, the blu-ray format). The original subtitles (on the BD) are always in 2D and in BD SUP format. They are converted to 3D by the blu-ray player in real time, with the help of the "3D-planes", that BD3D2MK3D uses to convert the 2D subtitles to 3D. (Some 2D BDs have also subtitles streams in text format, but it's never the case of the 3D BDs.)

The original subtitles are demuxed by tsMuxeR from the BD and saved under that strange names like "00800.track_4610.Spa.sup". The name is constructed from the number of the playlist containing the movie (here 00800.mpls) followed by .track_ and the internal ID of the track (the same number that you can see in tab 2 of BD3D2MK3D), followed by the language code (tree letters, here Spa for Spain) and the file extension (always .sup for the BD SUP format). So, the name can look strange, but it is very logical. Note that the original subtitles have no 2D or 3D extensions. Anyway, you should never need these files, and you can delete the entire BD3D2MK3D project when you have saved the final MKV somewhere.

BD3D2MK3D converts the demuxed subtitles to whatever you want. In tab 2, you can select the subtitle types to include in the MKV: 2D, 3D or both. You can also specify if you want them in VobSub (IDX/SUB) or BD PGS (SUP) format, or both. BD3D2MK3D adds the "2D" or "3D" string to the file name according to the type of conversion, and the SUP extension is kept for the BD SUP format. If you have selected the VobSub format, two files are produced: a small IDX file containing information about the subtitles (such as the colours and timings), and a larger SUB file with the actual subtitle images. So, for example, 00800.track_4610.Fra.2d.idx (and 00800.track_4610.Fra.2d.sub) is the french subtitle stream converted to 2D in VobSub format.

The "best" subtitle type and format for you depend of your player and the way you play the video. It is recommended to mux the 3D subtitles anyway, because they have the right "depth" in the scene. However, very few players can display the 3D subtitles correctly. Many players consider them as 2D subtitles, and you may see them twice. That players can display the 2D subtitles without problem, but they are usually displayed "on the surface of the screen" because the player has no way to know at what depth they must be placed. (The 3D-planes are lost after a conversion to SBS or T&B.)

Similarly, the choice of the IDX/SUB or BD SUP format depends of the capabilities of your player. The BD SUP format is much better that the IDX/SUB format, because it can use 16 millions of different colours and 256 levels of transparency, but unfortunately many players are unable to display that format. If your player can't display the BD SUP format, you have to use the IDX/SUB format, limited to 4 colours. (For that reason, the colours are not always correct. See the discussion above (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1717344#post1717344).) That format is supported by more players but not all.

If your player doesn't support the BD SUP and IDX/SUP formats, or if you want the subtitles with the correct depth and it doesn't show the 3D subtitles correctly, you have to hardcode (or "burn-in") the subtitles on the video (with the option in the last tab). The drawback is that you can't turn them off, but you will be sure that they are always correctly displayed, regardless of the player you use.

So, to summarize, you have to experiment and select the correct format and type according to your player. PowerDVD should be able to display the two formats (BD SUP and IDX/SUB) without problem, but I don't think it can display the 3D subtitles correctly. You can however probably use PDVD to stream the output with the 3D subtitles to your TV. In that case, the 3D subtitles may be shown correctly by the TV. But if you watch the movie on your PC, it is probably better to use the 2D subtitles. And if nothing works well, you will have to hardcode the subtitles.

So, I suggest to configure BD3D2MK3D in tab 2 to save all possible types and formats. Select "3D then 2D" (or "2D then 3D") for the subtitles types, and "both" for the stream format. Each input stream will be converted to 4 different streams, but you will be able to select the best one with the subtitle selection menu of your player.

Note also that some old (and bad) players need sometimes the subtitles "outside of the container". That players are unable to use the subtitles embedded within the MKV file. As far as I know, it is only necessary to keep the subtitle streams in SRT (text) format outside the MKV file, but that format is not suitable at all for 3D movies, and therefore it is never used on blu-ray discs. BD3D2MK3D can't create them from scratch (but it is often possible to find them on the internet.)

[r0lZ]

PS
In both cases, I cannot see where the 00800.track_4610.Fra.2d.idx and the 00800.track_4610.Spa.2d.idx files are being called from.
Is it also coincidental the they are both track_4610?
That files are not "called". They are included in the final MKV, and after it has been created, they are not necessary any more. Yoy can delete them if you wish. As explained above, your player should be able to play the subtitles contained in the MKV file. If it can't, use a better player!

[De_Hollander]

Hum, I don't think so. When you convert a SUP to 3D sup, the colours are never reduced to the 16-colours palette, and therefore the original colours are respected. I convert all my BDs with 3D sup, and I have never had any problem with the colours or transparencies.

You have to convert manually only when you need the output file in IDX/SUB (VobSub) format.

You can verify all steps of the conversion to 3D:

The original SUP is converted to XML/PNG with BDSup2Sub: the colours are not modified.
BD3D2MK3D adds the depth tags to the XML. The colours are of course not modified.
The PNG files are converted to 3D with ImageMagick. The colours are respected (but the images are resized to half resolution, and that may mean some quality loss).
The XML of the 2D stream is modified and saved for the 3D PNGs. Of course, the colours are not modified.
Finally, the 3D XML/PNG stream is converted to the output format by BDSup2Sub. The colours are respected if the output format is BD SUP, but are reduced to 3 colours if the output format is VobSub.

In the second case of the last step ONLY the colours are not respected by BDSup2Sub, and you have to convert manually to use a better palette.

Try a full BD conversion again, and be sure to select the VobSub output format in tab 2 (or, better, select "both") and you will see that the colours are correct in the 3D SUP file (but not in the XML/SUB if you have selected "both").Yes het works

[brochild]

You haven't explained what the problem is. You can't see the subtitles at all?

I can only see and select one subtitle in the MKV file.
The name of it is the same name as the file name. Instead of "French", its called "00800.track_4610.Fra.2d.idx". The problem is I wanted to be able to select one of the 3 subtitles, English, or French, or Spanish. But if I create a Blue-ray iso image using TSMUXER, I can see all three and be able to select the one hat I want.


BD3D2MK3D converts the demuxed subtitles to whatever you want. In tab 2, you can select the subtitle types to include in the MKV: 2D, 3D or both.
In my case, I select both


You can also specify if you want them in VobSub (IDX/SUB) or BD PGS (SUP) format, or both. BD3D2MK3D adds the "2D" or "3D" string to the file name according to the type of conversion, and the SUP extension is kept for the BD SUP format. If you have selected the VobSub format, two files are produced: a small IDX file containing information about the subtitles (such as the colours and timings), and a larger SUB file with the actual subtitle images. So, for example, 00800.track_4610.Fra.2d.idx (and 00800.track_4610.Fra.2d.sub) is the french subtitle stream converted to 2D in VobSub format.

This part seem to be working fine only for one of the 3 subtitles. It occurred in both movies with the 800.track_4610 being selected. How was this track selected instead of the other 2? How can I select the 3 tracks? or force them to be muxed since the files are already created?


You can however probably use PDVD to stream the output with the 3D subtitles to your TV. In that case, the 3D subtitles may be shown correctly by the TV. But if you watch the movie on your PC, it is probably better to use the 2D subtitles.

I can stream the MKV to my Samsung Series 7 65" TV. This part works as well, but I can only display and select "00800.track_4610.Fra.2d.idx" subtitle with the exact file name instead of English, French or Spanish. The same is displayed using PowerDVD14 on my PC.

In any event, Ill keep playing with it and experiment. I wish I knew how to manually force the selection of the subtitle for t he MKV container. Right now the track "00800.track_4610.Fra.2d.idx " or "00800.track_4610.Spa.2d.idx " is being selected all the time.

Thanks for your expeditious reply.
I really appreciate this program.

[r0lZ]

You select the audio and subtitle tracks you want to include in the MKV in tab 2. Nothing difficult to understand: just tick the streams you want. They will be included in the MKV and they DO NOT have file names such as 00800.track_4610.Spa.2d.idx. If you can see that file name, you use your player to select an EXTERNAL subtitle file. You should select the subtitles includes WITHIN the MKV. Usually, that's very easy, but I hate PowerDVD, I don't have it and I don't remember how subtitles are selected. Normally, you should have a subtitle menu with all streams that have been muxed in the MKV, and another option to load another stream from disc. You should not need to select that option with the MKV files produced by BD3D2MK3D.

Unfortunately, the log file you have posted in your first post is still not approved, and I can't verify if the files have been correctly muxed. Please copy and paste here the content of the _MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt file, and I will verify if the subtitle streams are present in the MKV. You can also verify yourself with MediaInfo or a similar program. But if you have selected them in tab 2, they must be present.

Note however that in tab 2, all subtitle streams are listed twice. The first time, it's the full stream, with all subtitles. The second occurrence is a stream that will contain only the forced subtitles. (Forced subtitles are the subtitles that must be shown in, say, French when the French audio is played). But there is no way to know in advance if a specific stream contains forced subtitles. So, if you tick, say, the French stream and the Forced French stream, you can be sure that the French stream will be muxed, because it exists certainly, but there is no guarantee that there are forced subtitles in that stream, and therefore if after the demux operation BD3D2MK3D doesn't find any forced subtitle, it will simply skip that stream. In that case, and in that case ONLY, the subtitle stream may not be present in the final MKV. (When BD3D2MK3D must skip a forced stream because there are no forced subtitles in the main stream, it shows you a warning at the very end of the operation, explaining that the stream will not be used. You can find the same warning near the end of the log.)

So, please verify with a good player (like PotPlayer) if you have the subtitle streams IN the MKV file. That should be the case, unless you have modified manually the MUX options file, or muxed the streams yourself. Also, move the final MKV file in another folder (without the IDX files), and play it from there. The player should not show the IDX files any more, and it may be easier to understand how to select the normal subtitle streams.

In the image below, you can see the subtitles menu (in French, sorry) with the options of PotPlayer to select the subtitles. In this case, I have only included one subtitle stream, in 3D and 2D SUP format. The 3D version is selected. PotPlayer prints "*HdmvSub - French," followed by the title defined by BD3D2MK3D: "French 3D (BD SUP)". It is possible to open an external subtitle with the first option in the menu ("Load a subtitle" in English), but normally I don't need to use that option.
You should see something similar in the subtitle menu of PowerDVD.
http://s21.postimg.org/5nxeqpeh3/2015_04_14_160208.png

[brochild]

That files are not "called". They are included in the final MKV, and after it has been created, they are not necessary any more. Yoy can delete them if you wish. As explained above, your player should be able to play the subtitles contained in the MKV file. If it can't, use a better player!

Hello again!
Can you please explain how this file "00800.track_4610.Fra.2d.idx" is included in the final MKV?

I want to know how I can include the other 2 files in the final MKV:
00800.track_4609.Eng.2d.idx and 00800.track_4611.Spa.2d.idx

Also, I need to change the labels to "English" or "French" or "Spanish" instead of the original file name.

Thanks

[brochild]

Unfortunately, the log file you have posted in your first post is still not approved, and I can't verify if the files have been correctly muxed. Please copy and paste here the content of the _MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt file, and I will verify if the subtitle streams are present in the MKV. You can also verify yourself with MediaInfo or a similar program. But if you have selected them in tab 2, they must be present.



Sorry, I did not see your post before I posted.
Here's the output you requested.
Thanks again for your prompt response.

# mkvmerge options file generated by BD3D2MK3D 0.63
# to mux the 3D video file "47 Ronin 3D 3D-SBS 1080p (BroChild-medium-16-level-4.1)-lrq.mkv"
# Stereoscopy mode: 3D Half-SBS (x264 high@L4.1 CRF 16 preset medium)
# Resolution: 1080p
# Encoding info: x264 high@L4.1 CRF 16 preset medium

# Output

--output
47 Ronin 3D 3D-SBS 1080p (BroChild-medium-16-level-4.1)-lrq.mkv

# 3D video stream

--track-name
0:3D Half-SBS (x264 high@L4.1 CRF 16 preset medium)
--stereo-mode
0:1
--language
0:und
--aspect-ratio
0:16/9
--default-duration
0:24000/1001p
--default-track
0:yes
00800.264

# Audio stream(s)

--track-name
0:English (DTS Multi-channel 48KHz)
--language
0:eng
--default-track
0:yes
--sync
0:0
--compression
0:none
00800.track_4352.Eng.dts

--track-name
0:Spanish (DTS Multi-channel 48KHz)
--language
0:spa
--default-track
0:no
--sync
0:0
--compression
0:none
00800.track_4353.Spa.dts

--track-name
0:French (DTS Multi-channel 48KHz)
--language
0:fra
--default-track
0:no
--sync
0:0
--compression
0:none
00800.track_4354.Fra.dts

--track-name
0:English (AC3 Stereo 48KHz)
--language
0:eng
--default-track
0:no
--sync
0:0
--compression
0:none
00800.track_4355.Eng.ac3

# 3D Subtitle stream(s)

--track-name
0:English forced 3D (BD SUP)
--language
0:eng
--default-track
0:no
--forced-track
0:yes
--sync
0:0
--compression
0:none
00800.track_4608.Eng.3D.sup

--track-name
0:English forced 3D (VobSub)
--language
0:eng
--default-track
0:no
--forced-track
0:yes
--sync
0:0
--compression
0:none
00800.track_4608.Eng.3D.idx

--track-name
0:Spanish forced 3D (BD SUP)
--language
0:spa
--default-track
0:no
--forced-track
0:yes
--sync
0:0
--compression
0:none
00800.track_4609.Spa.3D.sup

--track-name
0:Spanish forced 3D (VobSub)
--language
0:spa
--default-track
0:no
--forced-track
0:yes
--sync
0:0
--compression
0:none
00800.track_4609.Spa.3D.idx

--track-name
0:French forced 3D (BD SUP)
--language
0:fra
--default-track
0:no
--forced-track
0:yes
--sync
0:0
--compression
0:none
00800.track_4610.Fra.3D.sup

--track-name
0:French forced 3D (VobSub)
--language
0:fra
--default-track
0:no
--forced-track
0:yes
--sync
0:0
--compression
0:none
00800.track_4610.Fra.3D.idx

--track-name
0:Spanish forced 3D (BD SUP)
--language
0:spa
--default-track
0:no
--forced-track
0:yes
--sync
0:0
--compression
0:none
00800.track_4611.Spa.3D.sup

--track-name
0:Spanish forced 3D (VobSub)
--language
0:spa
--default-track
0:no
--forced-track
0:yes
--sync
0:0
--compression
0:none
00800.track_4611.Spa.3D.idx

--track-name
0:French forced 3D (BD SUP)
--language
0:fra
--default-track
0:no
--forced-track
0:yes
--sync
0:0
--compression
0:none
00800.track_4612.Fra.3D.sup

--track-name
0:French forced 3D (VobSub)
--language
0:fra
--default-track
0:no
--forced-track
0:yes
--sync
0:0
--compression
0:none
00800.track_4612.Fra.3D.idx

# Attachments

--attachment-mime-type
text/plain
--attachment-name
_ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs
--attach-file
_ENCODE_3D_MOVIE.avs

--attachment-mime-type
text/x-msdos-batch
--attachment-name
_ENCODE.cmd
--attach-file
_ENCODE.cmd

--attachment-mime-type
application/zip
--attachment-name
3D-Planes.zip
--attach-file
3D-Planes.zip

# Global settings

--title
47 Ronin 3D


--chapter-language
und
--chapter-charset
UTF-8
--chapters
chapters_3D_delay.txt

--global-tags
tags.xml

# MKV compatibility options:

--engage
no_cue_duration

--engage
no_cue_relative_position

#--clusters-in-meta-seek

#--disable-lacing

#--engage
#no_simpleblock

# Other MKV options:

--disable-track-statistics-tags

[r0lZ]

OK, there are 10 subtitle streams (3D ONLY, in BD SUP and VobSub formats) in your MKV of 47 Ronins. You should be able to select them with any good player. The name of the first one is "English forced 3D (BD SUP)" and its language code is "eng". The other streams have similar names and language codes. Everything looks perfect.

However, all streams are marked as forced and that's not normal. I suppose you have blindly ticked all "forced" option in tab 2. You should do that ONLY if you know for sure that the stream contains ONLY forced subtitles. But it's another problem. The streams are there and are NOT named 00800.track_4608.Eng.3D.sup or similar. (That file name is present in the _MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt file, because MkvMerge needs to know the file name to load the stream, but as soon as it is stored in the final file, the original file name is lost and CANNOT appear in the subtitle menu of your player.)

Everything is fine, the _MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt file contains what it must contain (according to your selections in tab 2), and the subtitles are certainly present in the MKV.

I don't understand what you want to do. You have the subtitle streams in the MKV file, and there is no need to add them again. But if you have made a mistake by including the 3D subtitles only and you want to include the 2D files as well without starting the whole process over, I suggest to edit the _MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt file to add the 2D streams, and then again launch _MUX_3D.cmd. But you must know what you are doing.

Or you can use Tools -> MkvMerge GUI, open the existing MKV in MkvMerge, add the subtitle streams (you can drag and drop them), select the right language and type a suitable name for each stream, and finally click Start Muxing to generate a new MKV file with all streams. That's easy.

[brochild]

OK, there are 10 subtitle streams (3D ONLY, in BD SUP and VobSub formats) in your MKV of 47 Ronins. You should be able to select them with any good player. The name of the first one is "English forced 3D (BD SUP)" and its language code is "eng". The other streams have similar names and language codes. Everything looks perfect.
I can only select them if I use TSMUXER to create a blue-ray ISO image, mount the image and play it.


However, all streams are marked as forced and that's not normal. I suppose you have blindly ticked all "forced" option in tab 2. You should do that ONLY if you know for sure that the stream contains ONLY forced subtitles. But it's another problem.

Yes, I did select all of them because I was not sure.


and the subtitles are certainly present in the MKV.


In the current MKV file, I can only see one subtitle, the one with the long name that ends with 2d.idx. When I read the MKV in tsmuxer, I get a warning message that some of the streams cannot be loaded. I do see all the 3D subtitles, the ones that I see using the converted ISO image. I see none of the ones that ends with "2d.idx". These I need so PowerDVD14 can allow me to select them while watching the MKV file.


I don't understand what you want to do. You have the subtitle streams in the MKV file, and there is no need to add them again. But if you have made a mistake by including the 3D subtitles only and you want to include the 2D files as well without starting the whole process over, I suggest to edit the _MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt file to add the 2D streams, and then again launch _MUX_3D.cmd. But you must know what you are doing.

I thought I selected "3D, then 2D", I'm not sure - but I will try that.


Or you can use Tools -> MkvMerge GUI, open the existing MKV in MkvMerge, add the subtitle streams (you can drag and drop them), select the right language and type a suitable name for each stream, and finally click Start Muxing to generate a new MKV file with all streams. That's easy.

OK, this is easy enough to try - I will give that a shot as soon as I get home. Will I still get a mkvmerge.log file if I use this manual process?
If I do, I will send that to you so you can see what I was trying to achieve.

Thanks again for all your help.
I really do appreciate that you took time out of your busy schedule to analyze my problem.

Merci beaucoup mon ami.

[r0lZ]

Well, I doubt that will solve your problem.

Trust me. The 10 subtitle streams ARE IN THE MKV FILE. You MUST be able to select them. If you can't, learn how to use your player, or use a better player. (PowerDVD has always been one of the worst player, and it is extremely expensive. Try the free PotPlayer instead.) And have you verified what streams are present with MediaInfo, as I suggested? And have you tried to move the MKV file in another directory, also as I suggested? It is useless to repeat that you cannot select the subtitles. Either there is a bug in PowerDVD, or you cannot use it, because the subtitles are present in the MKV. Anyway, I will not continue to repeat endlessly the same things if you persists to use a player that you can't master. Re-read my previous posts, and do what I have suggested. The solution is there.

[brochild]

I have Potplayer installed as suggested, it's a much better player, I agree.
I can see all the subtitle streams using that player, I can select each one as needed.

[Thalyn]

Please keep us informed, and if the problem occurs again, try to describe exactly what you did. Thanks in advance!

(Of course, if you use only FRIMSource now and DGMVCDecode is really the culprit, the problem will probably never occur any more, but who knows?)

I'm also interested in results of speed tests, although I don't think that FRIMSource can be really faster than DGMVCSource.

Decided to do a few test runs just to see what happens with BatB.

DGMVCSource using hardware still fails (goes and stays black). However, possibly because I've performed the updates to my available software and drivers, it's now wildly inconsistent as to when exactly it does it.

However, DGMVCSource forced to use software decoding worked perfectly. Due to the aforementioned issue I can't give a speed comparison directly, however it was roughly 85% of the speed of FRIMSource using hardware. Different systems and configurations will obviously be different (my x264 settings are somewhere between Slow and Slower, run by a 4.2GHz 4770K).

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get a direct comparison of hardware speeds. I ran a shorter encode to get speeds for both but DGMVCSource failed almost at the start, significantly inflating its speed as black frames compress rather quickly. I'll have to go back to something I know DGMVCSource handles fine to do those tests more accurately.

NB This isn't a slight at DGMVCSource or Donald. I have a lot of respect for his work on that plugin.

[r0lZ]

Hum, apparently, it's a problem related to the Intel driver. That means unfortunately that it is not possible to trust the Intel decoder in all cases, but the version currently distributed with BD3D2MK3D should work fine in software mode on all machines. Correct?
But if it's really d bug in the drivers, FRIMSource in hardware mode should fail too. Therefore, there is something I don't understand.
Anyway, thanks for your tests.

@brochild: Thanks for the confirmation.
Can I consider your issue as closed?

[brochild]

@brochild: Thanks for the confirmation.
Can I consider your issue as closed?

Yes, please consider my matter closed.

PS
I'm loving the potplayer.
goodbye PowerDVD ;)

[r0lZ]

Fine. Thanks.

BTW, if you adopt PotPlayer, you may want to select Settings -> Output file name -> 3D format extension -> For Bino, PotPlayer...
And, in PotPlayer's Preference, go to Video -> 3D video mode, and tick the last two options. It will detect the right format of the 3D files, and display them accordingly automatically. Very handy!

Have fun!

[brochild]

Fine. Thanks.

BTW, if you adopt PotPlayer, you may want to select Settings -> Output file name -> 3D format extension -> For Bino, PotPlayer...
And, in PotPlayer's Preference, go to Video -> 3D video mode, and tick the last two options. It will detect the right format of the 3D files, and display them accordingly automatically. Very handy!

Have fun!

I cannot get autoplay to work (Windows 7 64 bits) with a blueray.
I added the autoplay by hitting f5 then configured the options.
I tried Windows autoplay settings and potplayer was configured.
It just would not launch when a blue-ray is inserted.
Am I the only one with this issue?
I looked all over the internet for tips - nothing works so far?

[r0lZ]

I have installed PotPlayer in portable mode here, and therefore it has not registered itself for the autoplay. Sorry, but I can't help.

There is a lot of freeware programs that can add or edit the autoplay entries, like this one (http://www.7tutorials.com/customize-file-types-autoplay-default-programs-settings-default-programs-editor). I have never used such programs, but perhaps they will work for PotPlayer.

[r0lZ]

I will try to find a solution based on the saved palette. But it's without guarantee...
As I wrote above, BDSup2Sub (java and ++) use a fixed 16-colours palette for their conversion to IDX/SUB. By default, they use the internal palette, with a set of reasonable colours. Unfortunately, with some BDs, the default colours are not suitable, and therefore the result looks bad. For example, the shadow of the subtitles may be much more "light" than it should be, or light yellow subtitles are converted to white. That problems have been reported by youli here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1714724#post1714724) and by De_Hollander here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1717344#post1717344).

Unfortunately, I can't do much to solve the problem. It is possible to edit the palette to obtain better results, but there are many limitations, and it is impossible to create a palette that will give good results for all BDs. Since it is possible to save the modified palette on disc and to load a previously saved palette from the command line, I have tried to generate the "best" palette, that should work fine with most BDs. I have tried to define 10 different levels of greys (from pure white to pure black) and a few levels of yellow in the remaining slots. But that doesn't work well at all! I have noticed that BDSup2Sub doesn't compare the colours in the palette with the colours of the subtitles to select the best ones, but it assumes always that black is in slot 0, white in slot 1, light grey in slot 2, dark grey in slot 3 and so on. Therefore, if you set, for example, a pure red in slot 1, and white in slot 15, the white subtitles will be converted to red, because BDSup2Sub uses the colours in the slot supposed to contain white, without verifying its content! :scared:

As a consequence, it is not possible to define more than 2 shades of greys (plus white and black), and that not sufficient to face all situations that can happen in all BDs. It's really a pity. IMO, the palette should be generated dynamically, according to the content of the source subtitle stream. But it's not the case, and I can't change that. Anyway, due to the difficulties, I have abandoned the idea to generate myself a good palette suitable for the current SUP stream to convert.

However, if you think it is possible to use a better palette for most BDs, you can export a palette, and tells BD3D2MK3D to force BDSup2Sub to use it. It's relatively simple to do. Open BDSup2Sub, go to Edit -> Edit Default DVD Palette, and modify the colours. Do not forget that you should never change completely a colour. For example, to change the yellow, you should modify only the two slots containing the light and dark yellow. Then, export the palette on disc. In BD3D2MK3D, go to tab 2, and add this in the Additional BDSup2Sub Options field:

--palette-file "path\to\Alt_palette.ini"

If you have to convert a lot of subtitles from the same BD (or set of BDs from the same producer), that may be much more easy than having to fix the colours of each .IDX file after the conversion, as explained earlier (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1717492#post1717492).

Take care! BDSup2Sub (java version) and BDSup2Sub++ have the same --palette-file option, but the format of the INI file is DIFFERENT for the two programs! (The java version doesn't include the forst slot in the INI: it is always black and cannot be changed. The ++ version includes it, and therefore all subsequent colours are in different slots!) Therefore, if you change the Settings -> BDSup2Sub option, don't forget to change the palette file too!

Summary: To avoid the problem of the bad colours in your subtitles, you can do one of the following:

Convert only to BD SUP format. (The price to pay is a less good compatibility with some players.)
Let BD3D2MK3D do its job (without forcing a specific palette), and then verify if the IDX/SUP file have correct colours, and when it's not the case, change them with the Edit DVD Palette option of BDSup2Sub. You will have to do it for all IDX/SUB file that have been converted. (Note that you can do that during the x264 work, as long as the subtitles are modified before the MKV file is created.)
Force BDSup2Sub to use a modified palette, better for the subtitles BD3D2MK3D has to convert, with the --palette-file option as explained above. The problem is that you need the subtitles to verify if the palette is good, and therefore this method is recommended only when converting several BDs from the same producer, with similar subtitles.

[De_Hollander]

now I had a few blu-ray which the subtitles color palet was immediately good
Jurassic park gave problems with color palet,
I, robot, and 300 rise of an empire not

[r0lZ]

Yes, I know. It's unpredictable.

I am still working on a (possible) solution.

When a subtitle stream must be converted to 3D, it is necessary to convert it to XML/PNG format anyway. I can therefore take any PNG in the set of images that has been generated by BDSup2Sub, and analyse it to get its histogram. Then, I can extract the 3 most used colours from the histogram, verify if they form a shade of greys (or perhaps also yellows), and if it's the case, use them to build a palette dynamically, and use that palette to generate the final 3D VobSub file.

However, there are still several problems.
1. If the user wants the 2D subtitles in VobSub format, there is no need to convert it to XML/PNG, and therefore I have no PNG file to analyse. (IMO, it will be a waste of time to convert to a temp XML/PNG file anyway, just to analyse the colours.)
2. A single subtitle stream may contain subtitles in different colours. For example, some subtitles may be yellow, and others white. Therefore, picking a single PNG is not sufficient to ensure that all colours necessary to convert the whole stream will be suitable. (And analysing all PNGs is too time consuming and too complex.)
3. Even with "good" colours in the available slots of the palette, there is no guarantee that BDSup2Sub will use them correctly. It may still use them blindly, without knowing that they have changed. So, the result is not guaranteed.

However, the method should work relatively well in most cases (when all subtitles of the set use the same black, white and gray or yellow colours).

I may add an option to *try* to generate a better palette automatically for the 3D subtitles in VobSub format, but I still have to do numerous tests to be sure that that will give relatively good results, and of course to be sure that the result will never be worse than with the default palette. Currently, I'm still not convinced.