how can I burn *.dts to audio CD

[user-s3]

Hi, how can I burn 6-channel (5.1) *.dts files to 6-channel audio CD?
Nero these files can't burn.
Some files Nero can burn, but some ones can't and I don't know why.
It must be probably some alternative burner.

[Groucho2004]

Hi, how can I burn 6-channel (5.1) *.dts files to 6-channel audio CD?
Audio CDs are limited to 2 channel, 16 Bit, 44.1 Khz sample rate (Redbook).
You'll have to convert and downmix your DTS file to that format (with eac3to, for example).

[user-s3]

Audio CDs are limited to 2 channel, 16 Bit, 44.1 Khz sample rate (Redbook).
You'll have to convert and downmix your DTS file to that format (with eac3to, for example).

It's a nonsense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.1_Music_Disc
Don't honk in this topic anymore.

[filler56789]

Hi, how can I burn 6-channel (5.1) *.dts files to 6-channel audio CD?

Assuming they already are at 44.1kHz,

http://www.ac3filter.net/wiki/AC3Filter_tools#spdifer

then you can record the resulting WAV file to an Audio CD.

[SallyDog]

I've been doing it for years.

www.surroundbyus.com

[user-s3]

I've never seen any home treater, which couldn't play any stereo stream as surround, eg. 5.1.
But in this topic I'd like to know, how can I burn 5.1 *.dts files direct to DTS audio CD if you don't mind.

[Ghitulescu]

Hi, how can I burn 6-channel (5.1) *.dts files to 6-channel audio CD?
Audio CDs are limited to 2 channel, 16 Bit, 44.1 Khz sample rate (Redbook).
You'll have to convert and downmix your DTS file to that format (with eac3to, for example).

It's a nonsense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.1_Music_Disc
Don't honk in this topic anymore.
Audio CDs are indeed limited to 2 channels at 44.1kHz and 16b.
All others are simply non-compliant or non-audio CDs.

Yes, one can burn CDRs (compact disc recordable, not compact disc audio) with any data he might want. The data may be anything, including dolby digital, DTS or HDCD. The beauty of digital is that the same data has different meanings according to its interpretation (this allows for instance for polymorph viruses, as they change their code via data manipulations).

Any DTS/DD disc will generate noise on any CD-player. HDCD are backwards compatible, like 4 channels vinyls, colour TV or stereo FM.

If the question was something like "How to burn DTS audio on CDR?", the answer would have been like in that article of wikipedia. But the mention of audio near CD means a specific concept, and the answer was correct.

[user-s3]

What have you writed that for?
Don't you understand my question?
I'm simply looking for a way to burn some files to CD as some tracks of audio CD DTS format.
You can sometimes see them in CD-ROM as *.cda files/links.
There isn't any magic or great theory of genesis some music emanation but just a way represented by eg. a name of useful software.
If sb. still doesn't understand this, better give a break. please.

[bigotti5]

Are the files encoded as DTS Music Disc (DTS CD)?
Standard DVD DTS files wont work.

[user-s3]

I think so.
Problematic files, .wav too, are here:
https://sourceforge.net/p/cdexos/discussion/1794/thread/f8c513e6/

[bigotti5]

These are 48kHz files you have to convert to 44.1 and encode as DTS Music files
ie Surcode (http://www.minnetonkaaudio.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=87)

Here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ss4nbddg92700im/01%20DTS%20441%20music.rar) your file as DTS Music file

[user-s3]

I'd like to find a way to just burn this .dts file to CD as an audio DTS.
Could you explain, how have you converted the test .dts file to .wav step by step?

[bigotti5]

Resample to 44.1 kHz using eac3to.
eac3to "01 WAV.wav" split.wavs -resampleto44100
Feed Surcode with those files and encode.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I'd also be interested in finding an 'freeware' application that can place a 5.1/6.1 channel 44.1KHz DTS stream into the WAV container, to the red-book standard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.1_Music_Disc)...

If anyone's interested. There's an application called DTS Parser v2.0 that can de-mux surround sound DTS streams out of the .WAV container ;)

[filler56789]

I'd also be interested in finding an 'freeware' application that can place a 5.1/6.1 channel 44.1KHz DTS stream into the WAV container, to the red-book standard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.1_Music_Disc)

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1666186#post1666186

If anyone's interested. There's an application called DTS Parser v2.0 that can de-mux surround sound DTS streams out of the .WAV container ;)

http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/267222-DTS-1536-kpbs-not-clear-with-VLC?p=1967983&viewfull=1#post1967983

[SeeMoreDigital]

Assuming they already are at 44.1kHz,

http://www.ac3filter.net/wiki/AC3Filter_tools#spdifer

then you can record the resulting WAV file to an Audio CD.
I have no idea how to use CLI toots. Is there a GUI for this?

[tebasuna51]

I have no idea how to use CLI toots. Is there a GUI for this?

I don't know any GUI, but is easy use CLI tools.

1) Put in a folder all dts than you want convert to dtswav, the file "spdifer.exe" and a DtsToWav.bat file (make with Notepad for instance) with this content:

@echo off
for %%a in (*.dts) do spdifer "%%a" "%%a.wav" -wav
pause

2) Run DtsToWav.bat

--------------------------------
BTW, I never had a CD player compliant with this files. Even DVD players with spdif output always play noise with this burned CD's.

I prefer htpc's or players, like the Xtreamer, than can play regular DTS files 5.1 sending the output by spdif to the receiver.
--------------------------------
EDIT:
If spdifer don't work like spected maybe try DtsWav.exe instead

[EDIT] DtsWav.exe included in WAVDTSutil.7z here (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1848792#post1848792)

[SeeMoreDigital]

I'm really thick when it comes to this kind of stuff...

I have an empty 'D' drive which I use for my encoding work. If I have say, a file called dts.dts and I want to convert it to a dts.wav file, what do I have do do?

What do I write in the .bat file?

[tebasuna51]

If I have say, a file called dts.dts and I want to convert it to a dts.wav file, what do I have do do?
With spdifer.exe, dts.dts and the bat file at same folder in your D drive:

spdifer dts.dts dts.wav -wav

Or
dtswav dts.dts
with my DtsWav.exe

[user-s3]

Has somebody burnt any of problematic files (.dts or .wav) to audio CD DTS and check order of played channels yet?
Any conversion form .dts to .wav and its parameters you can make easily in free and portable Xrecode II,
but I'm mainly interested in burning .dts files direct to audio CD DTS.

[tebasuna51]

Has somebody burnt any of problematic files (.dts or .wav) to audio CD DTS and check order of played channels yet?

When convert from dts to wav to burn a CD the dts isn't recoded, only data is packed in other way. Then the channel order isn't changed.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks tebasuna,

The dtswav.exe application seems to work fine. The dts.wav file plays fine in my hardware and software players and all channels are correctly mapped: -

General
Complete name : D:\dts (By DTSWAV).wav
Format : Wave
File size : 5.60 MiB
Duration : 33s 297ms
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 411 Kbps

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 14
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 33s 297ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 411.2 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 5.60 MiB (100%)


However, the spdifer.exe application created a borked DolbyDigital.wav file, with the following information: -

General
Complete name : D:\dts (by spdifer).wav
Format : Wave
File size : 5.60 MiB
Duration : 33s 297ms
Overall bit rate : 1 411 Kbps

Audio
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Codec ID : 92
Codec ID/Hint : Sonic Foundry
Duration : 33s 297ms
Bit rate : 1 411 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 5.60 MiB (100%)

So I don't know what went wrong there...

Cheers and many thanks

[Nexin]

I'm really thick when it comes to this kind of stuff...

I have an empty 'D' drive which I use for my encoding work. If I have say, a file called dts.dts and I want to convert it to a dts.wav file, what do I have do do?

What do I write in the .bat file?

Foobar2000 using the convert option. I have read it can also output cue sheet file that you may need for CD burning.
Convert
Set 'Destination' Merge All Tracks Into One File
The rest as you need it for CD compatible format

When installing Foobar2000 v1.3 (or higher) and select for a portable install. I find the portable install never allows me to output a cue sheet file only the .wav file, and never complains via its console it cannot do so.

Maybe it is a unknown bug that the Foobar2000 portable mode has. That I find it cannot actually output cue sheet files ?

Have read though others install using non portable have no problems. Though with Foobar2000 always nice to have a stable version and try beta versions at same time which means need portable install is then needed.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I've come across a new issue, which I think is DTS encoder related...

If I use LameXP (4.09 Final-1) to generate a 5.1 channel 44.1KHz/16-bit (1536Kbps) DTS file, the elementary DTS stream plays okay in Media Player Classic and VLC Player.

General
Complete name : D:\dts.dts
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
File size : 11.0 MiB
Duration : 1mn 0s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 538 Kbps

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 16
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Duration : 1mn 0s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 538 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 11.0 MiB

But when I use dtswav.exe to place the elementary DTS stream into the .wav container. The resulting DTS.wav file wont play correctly.

General
Complete name : D:\dts.wav
Format : Wave
File size : 12.6 MiB
Duration : 1mn 14s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 411 Kbps

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 14
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 1mn 14s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 757 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 12.6 MiB (100%)

As you can see the DTS files 'bit-rate' is not 1536Kbps. However, I also generated a DTS file at 768Kbps but this does not work either :(

Any suggestions?

[tebasuna51]

Foobar2000 using the convert option...

Convert
Set 'Destination' Merge All Tracks Into One File
The rest as you need it for CD compatible format
...

And what Output Format?
If I select WAV Foobar2000 decode the dts files and make a decoded wav 5.1 that can't be burned in CD.

[tebasuna51]

I've come across a new issue, which I think is DTS encoder related...

If I use LameXP (4.09 Final-1) to generate a 5.1 channel 44.1KHz/16-bit (1536Kbps) DTS file, the elementary DTS stream plays okay in Media Player Classic and VLC Player.

I don't know your encoder, but a bitrate of 1536 Kb/s isn't typical for a samplerate of 44100 Hz.

But when I use dtswav.exe to place the elementary DTS stream into the .wav container. The resulting DTS.wav file wont play correctly.

The resulting fake wav is useless to play, only must be used to burn a CD.

As you can see the DTS files 'bit-rate' is not 1536Kbps. However, I also generated a DTS file at 768Kbps but this does not work either

Of course the bitrate is always higer because the dts data in wav uses only 14 bits for each 2 bytes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.1_Music_Disc). Then the bitrate must be always 8/7 bigger.

---------------------
Now my test:

1) Encoded a 5.1 44100 Hz audio to DTS Music Disk (.wav) with DTS-HD Master Audio Suite (unique bitrate offered 1234 Kb/s)

General
Archivo : 441_51.wav
Contenedor : Wave
Ocupacion : 3.4 MiB (3526700 bytes, 44 de contenedor)
Bitrate_T : 1411244

Audio
Formato : DTS
Duracion_A : 00:00:19.992 (19992 ms)
Bitrate_A : 1411200 CBR
Canales : 6 (3/2/0.1)
Muestreo : 44100

2) Converted to standard dts with Ac3Tools or BeSplit (bit-identical result)

bsconvert 441_51.wav 441_51.wav.dts
or
BeSplit.exe -core( -input 441_51.wav -prefix dts -type dtswav -fix )

General
Archivo : 441_51.wav.dts
Contenedor : DTS
Ocupacion : 2.9 MiB (3085824 bytes, 214 de contenedor)
Bitrate_T : 1234800

Audio
Formato : DTS
Duracion_A : 00:00:19.991 (19991 ms)
Bitrate_A : 1234800 CBR
Canales : 6 (3/2/0.1)
Muestreo : 44100

Here you can see the different bitrate 1234800 x (8/7) = 1411200
One more reason to don't use a wav big file to play the same dts standard. The wav only to burn a CD.

3) Converted the 441_51.wav.dts to wav with dtswav.exe the resulting file is bit-identical with original 441_51.wav

[SeeMoreDigital]

I've sussed it...

I used your UsEac3to v1.0.0 application to generate a 5.1 channel 44.1KHz/16-bit (1235Kbps) DTS file using dcaenc with this custom command line: -

stdout.wav dcaenc -i - -o %_.dts -l -b 1233

This generates an elementary dts file with the following properties: -
General
Complete name : D:\dts.dts
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
File size : 8.84 MiB
Duration : 1mn 0s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 235 Kbps

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 16
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Duration : 1mn 0s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 235 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 8.84 MiB

And when I use dtswav.exe to place the elementary DTS stream into the .wav container. The resulting DTS.wav file plays perfectly.

General
Complete name : D:\dts.wav
Format : Wave
File size : 10.1 MiB
Duration : 1mn 0s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 411 Kbps

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 14
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 1mn 0s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 411.2 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 10.1 MiB (100%)

EDIT: tebasuna51. Is it possible to configure UsEac3to v1.0.0 to alter the bit-depth to 20-bits?

[tebasuna51]

Is it possible to configure UsEac3to v1.0.0 to alter the bit-depth to 20-bits?
20-bits for what?
Don't exist a wav file with 20 bits, maybe 24 bits with only 20 significant bits and the rest to 0.

In other hand a DTS standard don't have bitdepth, the header field than MediaInfo show as Bit depth is the Source PCM Resolution.
The samples inside a DTS are in frequency domain without a equivalence with bitdepth in time domain.

And most the times the field Source PCM Resolution is wrong.
Surcode always put 24 even with 16 bit sources, and dcaenc put 16 even with 32 bits source.

You can use the bitdepth of your source without problems, DTS standard is a lossy codec and the error can be greater than 1 bit in 16 bits sources (is not lossless with 16 bits).

BTW, dcaenc don't support 24 bit input, but yes 32 bits then sometimes you can use, for instance with a 48 KHz source:

stdout.wav -resampleTo44100 -down32 | dcaenc -i - -o %_44.dts -l -b 1234
...
Resampling to 44.1kHz...
Reducing depth from 64 to 32 bits...
...
General
Archivo : 321.dts_44.dts
Contenedor : DTS
Ocupacion : 2.9 MiB (3089408 bytes)

Audio
Formato : DTS
Duracion_A : 00:00:20.016 (20016 ms)
Bitrate_A : 1234800 CBR
Canales : 6 (3/2/0.1)
Muestreo : 44100

Exact bitrate than used by DTS-HD MA Suite.

This dts have:
Source PCM Resolution .......: 0 (16 bits)

And is wrong because Source PCM Resolution isn't 16 bits

[Nexin]

And what Output Format?
If I select WAV Foobar2000 decode the dts files and make a decoded wav 5.1 that can't be burned in CD.
Ah after looking I see the problem dts in dts out with adjusted bitrate I forgot Foobar2000 cannot do that.

Although it would be ever so easy if Foobar2000 could demux and mux (split and join) to input output the same format. Unchanged except bitrate if user needs that for later cd burning. While also generating a cue file each time if user needs one generated.

I have just had a look and used Foobar200 with plugin 'Command Line Decoder Wrapper' (foo_input_exe.dll) with Ffmpeg so far general demux commands not working..

-i - acodec copy %d
-i - acodec copy -f dts %d
-i - c:a copy %d
-i - c:a copy -f dts %d

Needing a basic demux as above working before adding other commands for what you need. It should work maybe its a Ffmpeg build or something other ?




http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=98998

Decode command: ffmpeg.exe -i %s -f wav %d
File type mask: *.mpg; *.mpeg; *.m2v; *.vob


Format name: ffmpeg
Decode command: ffmpeg.exe -i %s -f wav -
File type mask: *.avi; *.mpeg; *.vob; *.ts; *.m2ts; *.mp4; *.mov; *.ogm; *.mkv; *.flv; *.rm
Decoder output format: wav


Additionally, in foobar's configuration under "Advanced\DirectShow input settings" you should enter this line: *.mkv;*.mka;*.avi;*.ts;*.mts;*.m2ts;*.m2t;*.mpg;*.mpeg;*.m2v;*.vob
I added ;*.dts to those above. Maybe other posts on the net solve this ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

I have a DTS-CD which is stated to be 24-bit. However, when you feed the .wav files into DTSParser they are reported to be 20-bits: -

http://i59.tinypic.com/v64ygp.png

Unfortunately, when they are de-muxed to a elementary .DTS stream, neither Media Player Classic or VLC Player is able to play them. And MediaInfo can't read their properties.

But when I use dtswav.exe to place the 20-bit elementary DTS stream into the .wav container. The resulting 20-bit DTS.wav file plays perfectly.

General
Complete name : D:\Desert Rose 20-bit.wav
Format : Wave
File size : 47.9 MiB
Duration : 4mn 44s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 411 Kbps

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 14
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 4mn 44s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : Open
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 20 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 47.9 MiB (100%)

EDIT: And here's what UsEac3to v1.0.0 reports: -

http://i62.tinypic.com/24zx0er.png

If anything, it's interesting ;)

[tebasuna51]

Like I say before don't exist standar DTS 16, 20 or 24 bits.
There are only a field (2 bits) in header than store a value:

PCMR (Source PCM Resolution):
This field indicates the quantization resolution of source PCM samples (see Table 5-17).
The left and right surrounding channels of the source material are mastered in DTS ES format if ES = 1 and otherwise if ES = 0.

Table 5-17: Quantization resolution of source PCM samples
PCMR Source ES
---- ------- --
000 16 bits 0
001 16 bits 1
010 20 bits 0
011 20 bits 1
110 24 bits 0
101 24 bits 1

But the encode or decode don't use this info at all.
You can change this value without change any other thing in the stream. It is absolutely useless.

I sat many times to madshi don't put bitdepth to lossy codecs (DTS, AC3, MP3, ...) only lossless codec have bitdepth.
And here put "20/24 bits" is a joke.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks for taking the time to explain all this. It's been an interesting learning experience.

Now that I know how to create fully compliant DTS-CD.wav files all I need to do now is work out how to burn them onto a CD-R. I'm hoping ImgBurn can be configured to do this ;)

[SeeMoreDigital]

When it comes to creating compliant DTS-CD-R's. This Burning a DTS-CD (http://www.surroundbyus.com/sbu/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17#) topic looks hopeful ;)

I've not tried it yet...

[Nexin]

Thankfully I do not need or want to convert from 24/48 >higher down to 16/44.1. Better then to keep audio as is at the same bit/sample rates as they are on the disc you bought.

Problems you will find sooner or later is where one song is spread over two or more tracks. Or where one song carries over to the next track sometime to the middle of it. Then you need options to demux as audio dts files (for dts) and generate a cue sheet so can edit the star-end index so to correct the problems. For DVDV-A is easy to do for DV-A it is not.

A cue sheet file is not only for CD It is a multi purpose index file. With that in mind we continue..

Demux disc to an audio image with a cue sheet file if possible.
For DVDV-A use PGCdemux extract cell times use Chapter Xtractor to convert to cue sheet times hh:mm:ss:cc (I know it should be hh:mm:ss:ff the :cc works)
Make cue sheet add times and track names
Play image using cue sheet with audio player such as Foobar2000. When spot and error edit the cue sheet so is correct.

Day before yesterday I found after telling Mosu that I needed perfect cue time splits for tracks (sorry Mosu). As this is correct for CD but not for DVDV-A and DVD-A as they are chapters. Edit cue sheet until you are happy it is correct.

You have now original demuxed dts audio file and an edited cue sheet. Now split the image file to retain original dts audio. The easiest method I've found so far that works is using MKVmerge v6.7.0 (32bit) may MKVmerge new GUI when it is completed and released will be ok also.

MKVmerge drop the dts image on it, merge it to an mka file. Clear MKVmerge previous project and add the new mka file then add the cue sheet (the cue indexes then become chapters). Clear cue sheet and drop again the newer mka file on MKVmerge. select Splitting (split before chapters) (all) (how many tracks the image has) and split.

Now you have corrected tracks that are split (if needed split tracks) and can choose tracks to add to your new audio DVD or BR disc. Burn with software burner or make a new DVD-A disc using DVD-A author tools.

* Below is of no use for lossy audio where need to keep original audio intact. If continue use only lossy audio compressors (where read lossless) then it will ruin your audio further, not that you care for that.. *

DVD-A with Foobar2000 and Foobar2000 components and can be done with a original audio file and make cue sheet file and edit. When DVD-A is lossless audio you need the lossless audio. Foobar2000 converter atm v1.3.0 doesn't output correct wav extensible files. Always errors with the last converted track when the output file will be >4gb. Although wav extensible should allows >4gb wav files is that the same for 24/48 5.1 and higher ?
Then better to use Foobar2000 converter to compress to flac v1.3.0 or other lossless format. Tak is good as monkeys audio but it also is slow at compressing will it ever be flac speed! (monkeys audio only supports 2 channel audio is a not a contender). I have tried convert using merge to flac and others and never a cue sheet file is generated neither is one embedded thankfully. Have tried with both portable and installed Foobar2000 (unknown which version it last worked) ?

[user-s3]

Conversion any *.dts to any .wav is quite easily, but the problem still is with the burning them to CD DTS. In this weekend I've tried perhaps everything to burn them and unsuccessfully. The best was DTS plugin for Nero 9, but it burnt not all dts files from the same album to CD DTS. Some tracks on resultative CD were 6-channel, but not even half, and the rest have been converted during burning to 2 channel despite of the source files have the same parameters. So I'm steel looking for how to burn 6-channel .dts or .wav files to audio CD DTS if somebody could solve this problem.

Or maybe this way. This file:
Format : Wave
File size : 27.8 MiB
Duration : 2mn 45s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 411 Kbps
Audio
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 2mn 45s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 411.2 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 27.8 MiB (100%)
I can burn to audio CD DTS easy by probably every Nero or other burner.
But the same file in wav format:
Format : Wave
File size : 83.1 MiB
Duration : 2mn 44s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 4 234 Kbps
Audio
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 2mn 44s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 4 234 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 83.1 MiB (100%)
I can't burn by anything.
Maybe is some way to convert this .wav file to .dts as above?

[user-s3]

When it comes to creating compliant DTS-CD-R's. This Burning a DTS-CD (http://www.surroundbyus.com/sbu/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17#) topic looks hopeful ;)
I've not tried it yet...
This way burns to only 2-channel audio CD
I've checked it already.

[filler56789]

This way burns to only 2-channel audio CD
I've checked it already.

"Normal" Audio CD (aka RedBook audio) IS 2-channel only.

It's up to the hardware/software DTS decoder to detect the DTS "signal" inside the noisy stereo PCM stream (SPDIF) and decompress it into a 6-channel output.

And I don't see the point of insisting on Nero, when one can do the same thing with ImgBurn, for example. :confused:

[tebasuna51]

This way burns to only 2-channel audio CD

Nope, this way works fine if you have a proper CD player.

You must understand this:

When you convert a dts to a wav with DtsWav.exe you make a fake wav like your first data:
Format : Wave
File size : 27.8 MiB
Audio Format : PCM, Endianness : Little, Sign : Signed
Bit depth : 16 bits
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Duration : 2mn 45s
Bit rate : 1 411.2 Kbps

Is a fake header with many of the data wrong.
The audio data is not PCM data but the 5.1 DTS stream.

Only the Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz can be correct.

And the duration can match only if the original DTS was encoded at 1234800 b/s because with the conversion 14/16 bits go to 1411200 b/s (see my previous post).

Just the bitrate value of a real wav 16 bits, 2 channels and 44100 Hz (like MediaInfo show):
16 x 2 x 44100 = 1411200 b/s

Only this fake wav can be burned in CD like CDA, you can't burn a real wav 5.1, like your second data, make decoding the DTS to PCM.

[tebasuna51]

@Nexin
Your post here are Off Topic, you have your thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=170167) to post about your problem.

[user-s3]

Nope, this way works fine if you have a proper CD player.
Nope, this way works wrong if you could check this in every home theater, audacity or etc. Surround speakers are dumb and there is only two channels.


When you convert a dts to a wav with DtsWav.exe you make a fake wav like your first data:
Format : Wave
File size : 27.8 MiB
Audio Format : PCM, Endianness : Little, Sign : Signed
Bit depth : 16 bits
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Duration : 2mn 45s
Bit rate : 1 411.2 Kbps

I haven't converted it. It's just my *.dts file as many I have, which I can burn to audio CD DTS.
The below file (83.1 MiB) was just converted from *.dts to *.wav.

[user-s3]

"Normal" Audio CD (aka RedBook audio) IS 2-channel only.

Look at my first post: "6-channel audio CD" can mean only audio CD (not DVD or BR) DTS as here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.1_Music_Disc

[Stereodude]

Look at my first post: "6-channel audio CD" can mean only audio CD (not DVD or BR) DTS as here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.1_Music_DiscAre you here for help or to argue with people? You seem to have a rather poor grasp of the technical concepts involved in what you're trying to do and keep trying to correct people who aren't wrong. If you spent half as much time trying to learn as you are protesting and arguing with the people trying to help you, you'd be an expert by now.

Feel free to educate yourself about Redbook Audio CDs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_Digital_Audio). filler56789 was correct.

[SeeMoreDigital]

When it comes to creating compliant DTS-CD-R's. This Burning a DTS-CD (http://www.surroundbyus.com/sbu/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17#) topic looks hopeful ;)

I've not tried it yet...
This way burns to only 2-channel audio CD
I've checked it already.
I tried using the ImgBurn procedure and it did not work... Bummer!

The disc was full of .cda files (which was encouraging), but none of my hardware players identified/flagged-up the disc as being a 'DTS-CD'... Damm!


Cheers

[user-s3]

Are you here for help or to argue with people? You seem to have a rather poor grasp of the technical concepts involved in what you're trying to do and keep trying to correct people who aren't wrong. If you spent half as much time trying to learn as you are protesting and arguing with the people trying to help you, you'd be an expert by now.

Feel free to educate yourself about Redbook Audio CDs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_Digital_Audio). filler56789 was correct.

Neither Redbook Audio CDs nor your opinion about me can help me make CD DTS, however intelligent people usually understand what they advise, so I'll be thankful for finish your digression.

[user-s3]

I tried using the ImgBurn procedure and it did not work... Bummer!

The disc was full of .cda files (which was encouraging), but none of my hardware players identified/flagged-up the disc as being a 'DTS-CD'... Damm!


Cheers

I've tried to use Minnetonka SurCode for DTS-CD and it was the same.

[Guest]

however intelligent people usually understand what they advise, so I'll be thankful for finish your digression. We don't appreciate gratuitous insults here. If you'd like to stay, knock it off.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I've tried to use Minnetonka SurCode for DTS-CD and it was the same.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Minnetonka SurCode for DTS-CD only offers the ability to generate compliant DTS-CD streams, it does not offer a means of burning such streams onto a CD-R.

Personally, I don't have any problems being able to generate multi-channel (1,411Kbps / 44.1KHz / 16-bit) dts.wav files. Indeed, if I place them onto a USB pen-drive or onto my NAS, my Oppo media player and Onkyo amp can decode them perfectly.

I just can't burn those same files onto a CD-R (to the redbook standard) and make them work in the same way all my 'store bought' DTS-CDs work. I've got around a dozen coasters now. I'm stumped :scared:

[user-s3]

I've just tried to burn a wav from Minnetonka SurCode for DTS-CD. And dts too.
I'm sorry, in my previous post my mediainfo perhaps had some failure, I should be:
And maybe this way. This file:

Format : Wave
File size : 27.8 MiB
Duration : 2mn 45s
Overall bit rate : 1 411.2 Kbps
Audio
ID : 0
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Muxing mode : LE / 14
Codec ID : 1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration : 2mn 45s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 411.2 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 27.8 MiB (100%)
I can burn to audio CD DTS easy by probably every Nero or other burner.
But the same file in wav format:
Format : Wave
File size : 83.1 MiB
Duration : 2mn 44s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 4 234 Kbps
Audio
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 2mn 44s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 4 234 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 83.1 MiB (100%)
I can't burn by anything.
Maybe is some way to convert this .wav file to .dts as above?

[bigotti5]

Second file is a 6 channel wave file.
You have to split to 6 mono channels (eac3to file.wav split.wavs) and feed Surcode with the mono files.
Resulting wav from Surcode is burnable as CD audio disc.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Resulting wav from Surcode is burnable as CD audio disc.
That's where I'm having the problem.

I can't find a way of burning my compliant dts.wav files onto a CD-R to the redbook standard. And make the CD-R work in the same way all my 'store bought' DTS-CDs work.

EDIT: I've even tried ripping the tracks from some of my DTS-CD's to individual dts.wav files and then burning these files back to CD-R and they don't work either!

[filler56789]

VERY-wild guess: the "store-bought" DTS-CDs contain an ISRC number (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Standard_Recording_Code), and the firmware of the players is designed to NOT work in the absence of that code? :confused:

[user-s3]

I've got several CDs DTS in *.dts file - particular tracks in particular files and I can burn them back very easy, so any theory about ISRC hereby rather has fallen.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I've got several CDs DTS in *.dts file - particular tracks in particular files and I can burn them back very easy, so any theory about ISRC hereby rather has fallen.So just to confirm we are talking about the same thing.

When you create a CD-R with your *.dts files and view the contents of the CD-R within windows explorer. Do you see something this: -

http://i57.tinypic.com/2622vc1.png


Cheers

[user-s3]

Exactly, eg. as in attachment.
I think, the solution of our problem is in conversion of .wav to right .dts.

[Stereodude]

I can't find a way of burning my compliant dts.wav files onto a CD-R to the redbook standard. And make the CD-R work in the same way all my 'store bought' DTS-CDs work.What program are you burning with?

[user-s3]

What app can make mark "Muxing mode : LE / 14" in .dts file and when?

[SeeMoreDigital]

What program are you burning with?ImgBurn

I'm wondering whether our dts.wav files require some additional meta-data...

EDIT: I've just spotted the following comment by Pl4yitLOUD over on the SurroundByUs.com Forum (http://www.surroundbyus.com/sbu/viewtopic.php?p=2327#p2327)

[filler56789]

...

However, the spdifer.exe application created a borked DolbyDigital.wav file, with the following information: -

General
Complete name : D:\dts (by spdifer).wav
Format : Wave
File size : 5.60 MiB
Duration : 33s 297ms
Overall bit rate : 1 411 Kbps

Audio
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Codec ID : 92
Codec ID/Hint : Sonic Foundry
Duration : 33s 297ms
Bit rate : 1 411 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 5.60 MiB (100%)

So I don't know what went wrong there...

Thanks for that, because it shows the latest version of spdifer.exe is b0rked :(
I've attached an old version of spdifer.exe, which works as it should.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks for that, because it shows the latest version of spdifer.exe is b0rked :(
I've attached an old version of spdifer.exe, which works as it should.Thanks filler,

The old version of SPDIFer is indeed able to generate dts.wav files. I'm going to try burning yet another DTS-CD-R ;)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Bummer... Yet another coaster :(

[Stereodude]

Bummer... Yet another coaster :(They make CD-RW's for a reason. :D

[SeeMoreDigital]

They make CD-RW's for a reason. :DGood point. I've just checked and they can be read by my Oppo :D

[filler56789]

S.M.D.,

now that you're aware of the existence of CD-RWs :) ,
please test this 6-second "DTSWAV":

http://www.mediafire.com/download/l5w7uf7adyb1y43/dts-cd-test.wav.7z

I used a hex-editor and removed 16 bytes, so that the SPDIF stream now starts with an actual DTS frame header.

[user-s3]

Good point. I've just checked and they can be read by my Oppo :D
Not all compilations are possible to burn on CD-RW properly, especially related to media. It seems better to use some image recorder and burn to image of CD.

I've got it. SurCode is working as in the attachment.
In the evenig I'm going to try to burn a wav in 48000Hz from SurCode.

And I've just received a message from an author of my burnable *.dts files.
He's writing that he's made them in EAC, which can rip CD-DTS.

EAC is working great. You can rip and burn CD-DTS as you wish.
So that's all what I need. Thank you all.

[SeeMoreDigital]

S.M.D.,

now that you're aware of the existence of CD-RWs :) ,
please test this 6-second "DTSWAV":

http://www.mediafire.com/download/l5w7uf7adyb1y43/dts-cd-test.wav.7z

I used a hex-editor and removed 16 bytes, so that the SPDIF stream now starts with an actual DTS frame header.
Sadly your '6-second' sample file does not work either... During the disc 'load up' period my Oppo reports 'CDDA' instead of 'DTS-CD' :(

However, this got me thinking. Bear with me here........

First Test: I decided to see what would happen if I used some 'ripped' dts.wav tracks from some of my 'store bought' DTS-CD's. I burned the first 'original' dts.wav track onto a CD-RW disc and would you believe it... It worked perfectly in the Oppo.

Second Test: I ran the first 'original' dts.wav track through WaveWizard and removed all its meta data and burned the first 'original' dts.wav track and the WaveWizard dts.wav track onto a CD-RW. And they both worked :)

Third Test: I burned the first 'original' dts.wav track and the WaveWizard dts.wav track in reverse order onto a CD-RW. And they both worked :)

Fourth Test: I burned the first 'original' dts.wav track, the WaveWizard dts.wav track along with two of my dts.wav tracks onto a CD-RW. And, the first 'original' dts.wav track and the WaveWizard dts.wav track worked okay but my tracks were totally silent :(

Fifth Test: I burned the first 'original' dts.wav track, the WaveWizard dts.wav track, my dts.wav tracks and the second 'original' dts.wav track onto a CD-RW. And, the first 'original' dts.wav track and the WaveWizard dts.wav track worked okay, my tracks were totally silent and the second 'original' dts.wav track was totally silent :(

Sixth Test: I burned the first 'original' dts.wav track, the WaveWizard dts.wav track, my dts.wav tracks and the first 'original' dts.wav from another DTS-CD onto a CD-RW. And, the first 'original' dts.wav track and the WaveWizard dts.wav track worked okay, my tracks were totally silent but the first 'original' dts.wav from the other DTS-CD worked okay!

So I guess this means there must be some kind of DTS flag at the beginning of each of the 'original' dts.wav tracks...

For anyone is interested, I've cut the first 30 seconds off the working 'original' dts.wav tracks, which are available here (http://www.sendspace.com/file/enrhzv).

Cheers

[Wilbert]

Fifth Test: I burned the first 'original' dts.wav track, the WaveWizard dts.wav track, my dts.wav tracks and the second 'original' dts.wav track onto a CD-RW. And, the first 'original' dts.wav track and the WaveWizard dts.wav track worked okay, my tracks were totally silent and the second 'original' dts.wav track was totally silent

Sixth Test: I burned the first 'original' dts.wav track, the WaveWizard dts.wav track, my dts.wav tracks and the first 'original' dts.wav from another DTS-CD onto a CD-RW. And, the first 'original' dts.wav track and the WaveWizard dts.wav track worked okay, my tracks were totally silent but the first 'original' dts.wav from the other DTS-CD worked okay!

So I guess this means there must be some kind of DTS flag at the beginning of each of the 'original' dts.wav tracks...
That would mean the last track in the fifth test should work too no? What happens if you burn only the second original dts.wav track onto a CD-RW?

Or did you mean some flag at the beginning of the first original track?

Also, in one of the posts above someone refered to AudioMuxer (http://www.surroundbyus.com/sbu/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=136&p=2529#p2529). Have you tried that?

[SeeMoreDigital]

That would mean the last track in the fifth test should work too no? What happens if you burn only the second original dts.wav track onto a CD-RW?

I backed-up 2No 'store bought' DTS-CD's and discovered that only the first track on each DTS-CD could be burned to a CD-RW disc.

The second and subsequent tracks would not work when burned to CD-RW disc


Or did you mean some flag at the beginning of the first original track?
I suspect that there must be such a flag at the beginning of each track but maybe the ripping process looses it.


Also, in one of the posts above someone refered to AudioMuxer (http://www.surroundbyus.com/sbu/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=136&p=2529#p2529). Have you tried that?
I had a quick look but I think it relies on you having to install 'hookie' decoders...

[Wilbert]

Could you cut 30 seconds of the second (non working) track? I was looking with a hex editor at the files above.

The sample of filler56789 misses the sync word: FF 1F 00 E8 Fx 07 (meaning 14-bit little-endian). See http://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=DTS. It's present (FF 1F 00 E8 F1 07, first occurance at 0xAFBC) in the first original track.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks Wilbert,

I've zipped up two for you. One is the second track from a 'store-bought' DTS-CD. The other is one I generated myself. Here you go (http://www.sendspace.com/file/imstfn).

EDIT: Jeez I've got to be up at 06:30... I better go to bed :scared:

[filler56789]

The sample of filler56789 misses the sync word: FF 1F 00 E8 Fx 07 (meaning 14-bit little-endian). See http://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=DTS. It's present (FF 1F 00 E8 F1 07, first occurance at 0xAFBC) in the first original track.

Thanks for making me re-read and re-study that page :stupid: :o

In fact, my sample file was generated by dcaenc, at exactly 1234.8kbps, and then WAV-wrapped with spdifer.exe ---
I wasn't aware that the specs for DTS-CDs were sooooo strict :scared:

[nhakobian]

Could there be subchannel data that the dts-cd readers expect that isn't being ripped along with the actual track data?

Standard pcm audio tracks require subchannel data to perform track seeking (and optionally other things like track names for cd text) which audio burning software places (or perhaps cd burner hardware places), perhaps there is a related set of subchannel data that that the dts readers expect.

[tebasuna51]

I've zipped up two for you. One is the second track from a 'store-bought' DTS-CD. The other is one I generated myself. Here you go (http://www.sendspace.com/file/imstfn).

I see a problem in your sample Desert Rose (DTS-CD Source cut).wav. The field, in all headers, with the framesize of the DTS have the value 3585 and must be 3584.

Maybe you can try to burn this fixed one (http://www.sendspace.com/file/uyttn4).

I upload also my test (http://www.sendspace.com/file/9l9t6q)created with DTS HD MA Suite.

[Ghitulescu]

Standard pcm audio tracks require subchannel data to perform track seeking (and optionally other things like track names for cd text) which audio burning software places (or perhaps cd burner hardware places), perhaps there is a related set of subchannel data that that the dts readers expect.
Subchannel data is created by the burner on the fly. AFAIK.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I see a problem in your sample Desert Rose (DTS-CD Source cut).wav. The field, in all headers, with the framesize of the DTS have the value 3585 and must be 3584.

Maybe you can try to burn this fixed one (http://www.sendspace.com/file/uyttn4).Sadly it does not work. And for some reason ImgBurn thinks the (30second) file has a duration of 69:00:08 minutes: -

http://i60.tinypic.com/md2ys8.png


I upload also my test (http://www.sendspace.com/file/9l9t6q)created with DTS HD MA Suite.It's a 'no-go' with that source too. It's recognised as being a CDDA file only...

You would not have thought something like this could prove to be so difficult to make work...

[nhakobian]

Subchannel data is created by the burner on the fly. AFAIK.

I figured as much. However, since there are fields that are unusued (according to Wikipedia), I thought that just maybe they did something bizzare.

[sebus]

Guys, I am loosing my will to live...

Phonic Digitrack (wwhttp://w.phonic.com/en/digitrack.html) with ASIO drivers (usb-audio.com)

Lasedisc captured DTS file (wwhttp://w.sendspace.com/file/oocdxkDTS). Plays perfect in capture application Reaper AND in foobar2000 & SPDIFER plugin (http://www.ga.cba.pl/spdif_w7.html) via digital out to Denon amplifier

But I can not do anything else with this file

My aim is to get to be muxed in mkv

Any ideas?

sebus

EDIT
All because USELESS Phonic Digitrack reverts channels during capture! Use Audacity to swap channels & all is well

ESI U24XL (http://www.esi-audio.com/products/u24xl/) with asio4all captures correct .wav (dtswav)

[Wilbert]

've zipped up two for you. One is the second track from a 'store-bought' DTS-CD. The other is one I generated myself. Here you go.
How did you generate the one that you did yourself? With surcode? Both have the sync word FF 1F 00 E8 Fx 07: FF 1F 00 E8 F1 07 at 0x7CD (second track) and FF 1F 00 E8 F0 07 at 0x2D (yours). mmm, so that can't be the problem. (Although i guess it should be present.)

You first and second track have both the same frame header: FF 1F 00 E8 F1 07 E0 FC 98 00 00 FA EA F4 09 so that can't be the problem either. Note sure what to do further.

You might want to remove the group chunk in the first working track, and check whether it still plays. So


52 49 46 46 C8 C0 50 00 57 41 56 45 4C 49 53 54
B6 00 00 00 49 4E 46 4F 49 41 52 54 06 00 00 00
53 74 69 6E 67 00 49 4E 41 4D 11 00 00 00 41 20
54 68 6F 75 73 61 6E 64 20 59 65 61 72 73 00 00
49 50 52 44 23 00 00 00 42 72 61 6E 64 20 4E 65
77 20 44 61 79 20 5B 4A 61 70 61 6E 20 42 6F 6E
75 73 20 54 72 61 63 6B 73 5D 00 00 49 47 4E 52
04 00 00 00 50 6F 70 00 49 54 4F 43 3F 00 00 00
41 2B 39 36 2B 36 39 33 37 2B 42 43 39 38 2B 31
31 35 45 42 2B 31 36 46 35 30 2B 31 43 43 30 30
2B 32 31 46 42 44 2B 32 39 33 37 39 2B 32 46 36
39 33 2B 33 35 37 31 39 2B 33 43 35 33 37 00 00
49 54 52 4B 02 00 00 00 31 00 66 6D 74 20 12 00
00 00 01 00 02 00 44 AC 00 00 10 B1 02 00 04 00
10 00 00 00 64 61 74 61 E4 BF 50

to

52 49 46 46 C8 C0 50 00 57 41 56 45

66 6D 74 20 12 00
00 00 01 00 02 00 44 AC 00 00 10 B1 02 00 04 00
10 00 00 00 64 61 74 61 E4 BF 50

The group chunk contains the title, toc and other stuff which i don't understand.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Guys, I am loosing my will to live...

Phonic Digitrack (wwhttp://w.phonic.com/en/digitrack.html) with ASIO drivers (usb-audio.com)

Lasedisc captured DTS file (wwhttp://w.sendspace.com/file/oocdxkDTS). Plays perfect in capture application Reaper AND in foobar2000 & SPDIFER plugin (http://www.ga.cba.pl/spdif_w7.html) via digital out to Denon amplifier

But I can not do anything else with this file

My aim is to get to be muxed in mkv

Any ideas?

sebusWith respect sebus. This topic is about generating DTS files that are DTS-CD compliant.

[SeeMoreDigital]

How did you generate the one that you did yourself? With surcode? I generated the *.dts file using 'UsEac3To' and then used 'SPDIFer' to convert the *.dts file into a dts.wav file...

[sebus]

With respect sebus. This topic is about generating DTS files that are DTS-CD compliant.

Well, LD track is definitely CD compliant, 16-bit 44100

So it is only a question of "getting it out" from the raw stream, hence the question

sebus

[filler56789]

sebus, your sample file gives me only "static noise" with both foobar2000 and AC3Filter :confused:
Also, MediaInfo has nothing at all to say about it :confused:

But SeeMoreDigital is right, you really should have opened a brand-new topic for your problem ;)

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well... It's taken me a while but I've finally discovered a method of making my own DTS-CD-R compilation discs using the following applications :)


DTS encoder: UsEac3To but other encoding applications are available.
DTS to WAV muxing application: SPDIFer or DTS2WAV
WAV files muxing application: WaveWizard
CD-R disc burning application: ImgBurn


The key to making a CD-R disc into a 'viable' DTS-CD is this little DTS-CD Header.wav (http://www.sendspace.com/file/ttmfq4) file.

You will also need to learn how to make a .CUE file that is compatible with ImgBurn. Here is an example of a Working ImgBurn Cue File (http://www.sendspace.com/file/qlyw1b) that can be amended to suit your individual requirements.

So here's what I did...

After creating my viable 1235Kbps 44.1KHz/16-bit *.dts streams. I re-muxed them into the .wav container using SPDIFer or DTS2WAV. So you now have a bunch of *dts.wav files.

You then use WaveWizard to 'stitch' the 'DTS-CD Header.wav' and all your separate dts.wav files together. Making sure that the 'DTS-CD Header.wav' file is positioned at the top of the list. After WaveWizard has finished muxing all your files together you should have a 'viable' *dts.wav file.

The most complicated task is creating a *.CUE file which works with ImgBurn. But once this is done all you do next is. Create a new folder. Place the 'viable' *dts.wav file and the *.cue file into it. Right click on the *.cue file and 'Open with...' ImgBurn.

After ImgBurn has done its thing, you will (with any luck) have created a 'viable' DTS-CD. Complete with CD-Text data :D

Not bad eh? And it only took me a week to work out :scared:


Cheers

[filler56789]

.............
The key to making a CD-R disc into a 'viable' DTS-CD is this little DTS-CD Header (http://www.sendspace.com/file/ttmfq4) file.

:goodpost:

Many big thanks for your hard work :thanks: :thanks: :thanks:

[SeeMoreDigital]

It gets better...

Using the above method it's even possible to combine 6.1Ch, 5.1Ch and 2.0Ch *dts.wav files together.

It makes your surround sound amplifier "click like a cricket trying to find a mate" but it works...

Here's a sample that's burnable to a CD-RW disc (http://www.sendspace.com/file/w2wqka) ;)

[Wilbert]

@SMD,

Can i ask how you found out this stuff? How do you know about this DTS-CD Header file? Where did you get it from? Specs of the header? How about the CUE file? Could you describe it?

Isn't this header and cue file visible when you rip your original DTS-CD?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi Wilbert,

When I discovered that I could use 'AC3 DelayCut v1.4.3.4' to chop off a 500ms segment from a working DTS-CD file (ie: Don Henley - The End Of The Innocence)... It got me thinking what would happen if I could add such a 'chopped segment' (ie: DTS-CD Header file) to the beginning of one of my own .dts.wav file creations. Hence WaveWizard.

I guess you could add this DTS-CD Header file to the beginning of any compliant dts.wav file. And burn each of those files to a CD-R/RW but I have not tried this yet...

Given the 500ms DTS-CD Header file adds so little to the overall length of a typical audio track, it's not much work to add this to your .CUE file.


Cheers

[Wilbert]

I don't understand it fully. This DTS-CD header is not present (looks different) in your "01 A Thousand Years (DTS-CD Source cut).wav" which you said is working too. Does this track contain a workable header too (which you can append in front of home made dtswav tracks too)?

I guess you could add this DTS-CD Header file to the beginning of any compliant dts.wav file. And burn each of those files to a CD-R/RW but I have not tried this yet...
Please try for us.

Given the 500ms DTS-CD Header file adds so little to the overall length of a typical audio track, it's not much work to add this to your .CUE file.
I guess the 500 ms is somewhat arbitrary? If so, could you try to cut off smaller sections to see what minimum is absolutely necessary to get it working.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi Wilbert,

Using AC3 DelayCut I chopped off the beginning of the "01 A Thousand Years (DTS-CD Source cut).wav" file and eventually discovered that the smallest workable DTS-CD header is 372ms: -

General
Complete name : D:\372ms.wav
Format : Wave
File size : 64.1 KiB
Duration : 372ms
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 412 Kbps

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 14
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 372ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 0 bps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: C
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 64.1 KiB (100%)

Indeed, if you chop off 371ms you end up with a PCM file:-

General
Complete name : D:\371ms.wav
Format : Wave
File size : 64.0 KiB
Duration : 371ms
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 412 Kbps

Audio
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 371ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 411.2 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 63.9 KiB (100%)

And as requested, I also tried adding the (new 372ms) DTS-CD header to the beginning of several of my own DTS.wav files and burned them (as individual files) to a CD-RW using ImgBurn. I'm happy to report they played perfectly :D

EDIT: I almost forgot, here's the new 372ms DTS-CD header (http://www.sendspace.com/file/yrdkpk).


Cheers

[sebus]

DTS encoder: UsEac3To but other encoding applications are available.
DTS to WAV muxing application: SPDIFer or WAV2DTS
WAV files muxing application: WaveWizard
CD-R disc burning application: ImgBurn



If you mux dts to wav, shouldn't you use dts2wav.exe instead from here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1668361#post1668361)

Also isn't Hypercube_Transcoder (http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=Hypercube_Transcoder) supposed to do what you need?

sebus

[SeeMoreDigital]

If you mux dts to wav, shouldn't you use dts2wav...Indeed.. I have corrected my original post

Also isn't Hypercube Transcoder supposed to do what you need? No it can't. Not at all...

[Wilbert]

Using AC3 DelayCut I chopped off the beginning of the "01 A Thousand Years (DTS-CD Source cut).wav" file and eventually discovered that the smallest workable DTS-CD header is 372ms: -
I don't get it. If i cut the beginning of that file (the 30 sec sample you uploaded; with AC3 DelayCut v1.4.3.7) it looks very different (using a hex editor) as your 372ms DTS-CD header file. The first few 'bytes':

RIFF<...WAVELIST¶...INFOIART....Sting.INAM....A
Thousand Years..IPRD#...Brand New Day [Japan Bon
us Tracks]..IGNR....Pop.ITOC?...A+96+6937+BC98+1
15EB+16F50+1CC00+21FBD+29379+2F693+35719+3C537..
ITRK....1.fmt ........D¬...±........dataX.......
...

versus your header

RIFF|...WAVEfmt ........D¬...±......dataX.......
...

Your header starts with the wave file format header. I'm curious as to what happens if you blank bytes (zero them) starting from 0xB35C. It must contain info to identify it as having dts tracks further on.

It's a pity that i don't have a dts-cd player to test it myself.

edit: so you need to append the header in front of every track (not just the first track)?

[sebus]

Hi, how can I burn 6-channel (5.1) *.dts files to 6-channel audio CD?
Nero these files can't burn.
Some files Nero can burn, but some ones can't and I don't know why.
It must be probably some alternative burner.

If you already have the file, then dts2wav & just burn it to CD
It will play fine via amp.

44.1 16-bit .dts (http://www11.zippyshare.com/v/5353364/file.html) was in my test not recognized by Mediainfo, but dts2wav (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1668361#post1668361) produced:


General
Complete name : W:\DTS2.dts.wav
Format : Wave
File size : 47.2 MiB
Duration : 4mn 40s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 411 Kbps

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 14
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 4mn 40s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 412 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 20 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 47.2 MiB (100%)


which recorded as AudioCD with imgburn plays perfectly as DTS via DVD player/Amplifier

Without any additional headers etc

sebus

[SeeMoreDigital]

I don't get it. If i cut the beginning of that file (the 30 sec sample you uploaded; with AC3 DelayCut v1.4.3.7) it looks very different (using a hex editor) as your 372ms DTS-CD header file. The first few 'bytes':
I think I understand what has happened. The original 30 second sample I provided was cut from a DTS.wav file that contains meta-data. Like this: -

General
Complete name : D:\01 A Thousand Years (DTS-CD Source cut).wav
Format : Wave
File size : 5.05 MiB
Duration : 30s 0ms
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 411 Kbps
Track name : A Thousand Years
Director : Sting
Genre : Pop
Original source form/Name : Brand New Day [Japan Bonus Tracks]
ITOC : A+96+6937+BC98+115EB+16F50+1CC00+21FBD+29379+2F693+35719+3C537
ITRK : 1

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 14
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 30s 0ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 0 bps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: C
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 5.05 MiB (100%)


If you run the above dts.wav file though WaveWizard it will strip the meta-data from the file. Like this: -

General
Complete name : D:\01 A Thousand Years (DTS-CD Source run through WaveWizard cut).wav
Format : Wave
File size : 5.05 MiB
Duration : 30s 0ms
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 411 Kbps

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 14
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 30s 0ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 0 bps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: C
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 5.05 MiB (100%)


edit: so you need to append the header in front of every track (not just the first track)?
So far I've managed to find two ways of compiling red-book DTS-CD discs.

Method 1: You can use WaveWizard to stitch all your separate dts.wav files together into one long dts.wav file. Then use WaveWizard again to stitch the DTS-CD Header.wav file once at the beginning. This method requires you to make your own .cue file for use with ImgBurn

Method 2: You can use WaveWizard to stitch the DTS-CD Header.wav file to the beginning of each one of your dts.wav files. ImgBurn will then create the .cue file for you.

However, I suspect the latter method will not be able to create red-book DTS-CD's with totally gapless playback though. Because the DTS-CD Header file might create a slight gap.

It's a pity that i don't have a dts-cd player to test it myself.
EDIT: If you have a DVD player or Blu-ray player it can probably play DTS-CD's too...

[SeeMoreDigital]

If you already have the file, then dts2wav & just burn it to CD
It will play fine via amp.

Hmmm...

When I used DTS2WAV to re-mux your supplied 'DTS2.dts' file to a 'DTS2.wav' file and burned it onto CD-RW using ImgBurn, it only produced a CDDA disc not a red-book DTS-CD disc.

EDIT: Can you explain how you are making your red-book DTS-CD's using ImgBurn?

[sebus]

Did nothing different. Wrote the CDRW with imgburn. Played in Pioneer DVD player. Recognized as CD, played as DTS via Amp

sebus

[SeeMoreDigital]

Did nothing different. Wrote the CDRW with imgburn. Played in Pioneer DVD player. Recognized as CD, played as DTS via Amp

sebusI suspect you are just burning dts.wav files as data files to your CD-RW discs.

So please explain how you are setting up ImgBurn?

[sebus]

How could I burn data files? In that case it would be Data CD (and I am sure my player would not even understand dtswav)

I just create cue & burn it

DVD player sees it as CD & plays it

sebus


FILE "DTS2.dts.wav" WAVE
REM FILE-DECODED-SIZE 04:40:50
TRACK 01 AUDIO
INDEX 01 00:00:00


http://imageshack.com/a/img203/1499/d71w.png

[SeeMoreDigital]

I can confirm, that's the same way I use ImgBurn too.

I seems most odd that neither My Oppo BDP-103, Panasonic SA-PT480 or Pioneer DV-575A detects your supplied 'DTS2.dts.wav' files as being a 'Red-book' DTS-CD disc.

However, if I use WaveWizard to stitch the DTS-CD Header.wav file to the beginning of your 'DTS2.dts.wav' file and burn it with ImgBurn, all my players detect it as being a 'Red-book' DTS-CD disc.

Out of interest, can you burn this 'image' file (http://www.sendspace.com/file/69pifj) I have created for you to a CD-R/RW disc and see if your DVD player detects it in a different way to your creations?

I would also be interested to test one of your 'image' files with all my players...


Cheers

[filler56789]

For the notes...

The file "DTS2.dts" shared by sebus is *uncommon*
(to me, at least), probably because it's a 20-bit stream that was flagged as 16-bit :confused:
If I play directly with MPC-HC (demuxer = LAV Splitter, decoder = AC3Filter),
the result is simply ridiculous :mad: :D

BUT if I convert it with either dts2wav or bsconvert+spdifer,
then the resulting WAV file sounds OK (OR it sucks less anyway :p)

[SeeMoreDigital]

For the notes...

The file "DTS2.dts" shared by sebus is *uncommon*
(to me, at least), probably because it's a 20-bit stream that was flagged as 16-bit :confused:

I have a few 'store bought' DTS-CD's like this. But get this... On the CD covers spine they are stated as being 24-bit :scared:

I guess they are the DTS-CD equivalent of an HDCD disc...

[sebus]

Well, as stated, with Diana Krall CD (store bought) all I done was was to rip track 01 in EAC.

As I did not have ant .dts around so I used besplit to convert the above .wav to .dts


besplit -core(-logfile c:\temp\besplit.log -input w:\01_Track01.dtswav.wav -output W:\DTS2.dts -type dtswav -b 1411 -fix)


If I process original ripped .wav with wav2dts then the result .dts is different then besplit result
But using ONLY wav2dts AND dts2wav one can gets .wav as the original

But wav2dts produced .dts is UNUSABLE (not playable in anything)

Sadly the besplit created .dts plays WAY TOO FAST & jittery


General
Complete name : E:\01 - Diana Krall - All or Nothing at All.wav
Format : Wave
File size : 47.3 MiB
Duration : 4mn 41s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 411 Kbps

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 14
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 4mn 41s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : Open
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Frame rate : 43.066 fps (1024 spf)
Bit depth : 20 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 47.3 MiB (100%)
===========================

General
Complete name : W:\01.besplit.dts
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
File size : 41.3 MiB
Duration : 4mn 40s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 235 Kbps

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Mode : 16
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Duration : 4mn 40s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 235 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Frame rate : 43.066 fps (1024 spf)
Bit depth : 20 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 41.3 MiB (100%)


sebus

[sebus]

Out of interest, can you burn this 'image' file (http://www.sendspace.com/file/69pifj) I have created for you to a CD-R/RW disc and see if your DVD player detects it in a different way to your creations?

Cheers

Yes, it is recognized as CD & played fine as DTS

Old Pioneer DV-420V (http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/archive/DV-420V-K/page.html)

[tebasuna51]

Remember than standard DTS like used for DTS-CD don't have bitdepth, is wrong say:

"it's a 20-bit stream that was flagged as 16-bit"

or

"On the CD covers spine they are stated as being 24-bit"

Only the PCM source for these DTS can have a bitdepth, the encoded DTS don't have bitdepth anymore.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Indeed (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1667005#post1667005) ;)

[filler56789]

Remember than standard DTS like used for DTS-CD don't have bitdepth, is wrong say:

"it's a 20-bit stream that was flagged as 16-bit"

or

"On the CD covers spine they are stated as being 24-bit"

Only the PCM source for these DTS can have a bitdepth, the encoded DTS don't have bitdepth anymore.

Surely, and thanks for the overdue reminder, BUT
here go what MediaInfo and LeeAudBi said about the sample file shared by sebus

(suggesting that, if the file itself is not (very) "problematic",
then there are some applications which don't like it very-much :) )

Complete name : G:\0000\Downloadx\2014\02\DTStoo\DTS2.dts
File size : 41.3 MiB

(FWIW, LeeAudBi took AGES :scared: to read the sample file)

----------------------------------------- First Frame Info
CRC present .................: 0 (Not)
Number of PCM Sample Blocks .: 31 ( 1024 samples/frame)
Primary Frame Byte Size .....: 3584 ( 3585 bytes/frame)
Audio Channel Arrangement ...: 9 (5 C + L + R + SL + SR)
Core Audio Samp. Frequency ..: 8 (44,1 kHz)
Transmission Bit Rate .......: 22 (1411,2 Kb/s)
Embedded Down Mix Enabled ...: 0 (Not)
Embedded Dynamic Range Flag .: 0 (Not)
Embedded Time Stamp Flag ....: 0 (Not)
Auxiliary Data Flag .........: 0 (Not)
Mastered in HDCD format .....: 0 (Not)
Extension Audio Descr. Flag .: 0 (Channel Extension XCh)
Extended Coding Flag ........: 0 (Not)
Audio Sync Word Insert. Flag : 1 (Sub-sub-frame)
Low Frequency Effects Flag ..: 2 (Present, interpolation factor 64)
Predictor History Flag Switch: 1 (Yes)
Multirate Interpolator Switch: 0 (Non-perfect Reconstruction)
Encoder Software Revision ...: 7 (Current)
Copy History ................: 1 (Definition deliberately omitted)
Source PCM Resolution .......: 2 (20 bits)
Front Sum/Difference Flag ...: 0 (Not)
Surrounds Sum/Difference Flag: 0 (Not)
Dialog Normalization Param. .: - 0 dB
--------------------------------------------- Revised Info
Final bytes invalid: 7167 (Frame incomplete)
Total Frames ......: 6043
Duration ..........: 140.318 seconds. ( 0 h. 2 m. 20.318 s.)
Pad Bytes min./max.: 3583 / 3583 (bytes between frames)
------------------------------------------------- End Info

[tebasuna51]

(FWIW, LeeAudBi took AGES :scared: to read the sample file)
Yes, was made longtime ago with a old Visual Basic.
And LeeAudBi read all frame header checking basic fields values.
MediaInfo read only filesize and the first frame, for that can't know the duration of VBR encodes like DTS-HD.

Primary Frame Byte Size .....: 3584 ( 3585 bytes/frame)
...
Source PCM Resolution .......: 2 (20 bits)
--------------------------------------------- Revised Info
Total Frames ......: 6043
Duration ..........: 140.318 seconds. ( 0 h. 2 m. 20.318 s.)
Pad Bytes min./max.: 3583 / 3583 (bytes between frames)
------------------------------------------------- End Info


This is a DTS with a wrong value in Primary Frame Byte Size, instead 3585 must be 3584, when LeeAudBi skip 3585 bytes to read the next frame don't found a valid header until 3583 bytes after (and read byte to byte the file to found the next).

Then the valid frames detected is 6043 but must be double.

[sebus]

Bacause I think dts2wav does no create wav file correctly

(take .dtswav - convert to .dts with besplit, user dt2wav to get back dtswav, which is DIFFERENT then the original .dtswav !)

What else can convert dts to dtswav? (fb2k can only convert to 6 channel PCM)

sebus

[SeeMoreDigital]

What else can convert dts to dtswav? (fb2k can only convert to 6 channel PCM)
As mentioned before, SPDIFer (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1667458#post1667458) can...

[sebus]

spdifer produces EXACTLY the same SIZE file but DIFFERENT content then dts2wav (which is also DIFFERENT then the original .dtswav)

SeeMoreDigital is CORRECT below!

sebus

[sebus]

Some free .dts (and .ac3) files are here (http://www.diatonis.com/surround_sound_music.html) in case anybody needs

[SeeMoreDigital]

spdifer produces EXACTLY the same file BYTE IDENTICAL as dts2wav

I don't see how that's possible: -

http://i59.tinypic.com/2zf2yrb.png

http://i60.tinypic.com/2ivy4n.png

[sebus]

I don't see how that's possible: -


Correct, I was talking rubbish!

See post #109 above (and edited #101 in which my file was
exactly the same SIZE but not content!)

http://imageshack.com/a/img842/1039/k5bl.png

sebus


It seems that .dtswav --> wav2dts --> .dts --> dts2wav --> .dtswav (identical to original!)

But .dts is unusable

[sebus]

As mentioned before, SPDIFer (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1667458#post1667458) can...

No, even the old version of spdifer does not produce perfectly playable .dts
Created .dts file plays too fast

Here (https://www.sendspace.com/file/eqixbr) is the original ripped .dtswav that I am playing with

sebus

EDIT:

Sorted, here (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,94988.msg933749.html#msg933749)