BD Rebuilder 3D Blu Ray

[dr_mrsolds]

Has anything been accomplished with shrinking 3D BD such as Monsters vs Aliens?

[shon3i]

no muxer, no mvc encoder, in one word not possible.

[setarip_old]

@dr_mrsolds

Hi!

If that title uses the same (anaglyph - requires "red and green" or "red and blue" glasses) methodology as was used with the "Coraline" and "Journey to the Center of the Earth" 3D BluRays, it can be processed by BD-RB in the normal fashion...

[shon3i]

@dr_mrsolds

Hi!

If that title uses the same (anaglyph - requires "red and green" or "red and blue" glasses) methodology as was used with the "Caroline" and "Journey to the Center of the Earth" 3D BluRays, it can be processed by BD-RB in the normal fashion...
No it's MVC-encoded Blu-Ray.

[rotty]

I do not have a 3D encoded blu ray disc to try, but am I right in understanding what has been said above is that we cant use the tools we have been using for standard blu ray streams to compress the 3D multiplexed streams.

If that is the case, is there any work being done in this area.

Thanks

[jdobbs]

I do not have a 3D encoded blu ray disc to try, but am I right in understanding what has been said above is that we cant use the tools we have been using for standard blu ray streams to compress the 3D multiplexed streams.

If that is the case, is there any work being done in this area.

ThanksNot from me. I also don't have a 3D disc to test, or a way to test it.

[rotty]

Thanks for reply, at the moment I thinks there's only a few 3D discs around.

thanks

[setarip_old]

Just saw the following at the DVDFab website: DVDFab 7.0.7.0 is out (June 8, 2010)
New version of DVDFab added support for a new copy protection as found on "Shutter Island", added Blu-ray 3D support, and added support for Apple iPhone 4.

[A.Fenderson]

Just saw the following at the DVDFab website:

Whatever "added Blu-ray 3D support" does mean (I'm guessing not much), it's pretty well a given that it does NOT mean it can reencode MVC, right?

[deank]

It probably means that it can convert 3d blu-ray to 2d 'movie-only', which is not big deal.

[crl2007]

Just ripping and the end result is double in size when ripping it to HDD folder. If you rip it as an ISO, the file size is ok, but you can't edit anything. And yes, they are MVC encoded. I tested the Panasonic 3D Demo and the conventional tools that we have are of no use. eac3to can demux the streams, but there is no muxer.

[vsv]

It is possible with avisynth and MVC decoder (coded by alexpk - he have source code for developers.)
Left view on the BD 3D encoded in AVC, but delta in MVC. With alexpk's decoder possible reconstruct RIGHT view from LEFT+delta and encode to any format and stereoscopic layot.

[deank]

Thanks for the hint!

I just used H264StereoSource plug-in for AviSynth and encoded a short 30 seconds intro from Panasonic 3D Blu-ray Demo disc (using left+right AVC streams from the main m2ts file).

Even with anaglyph glasses it looks so cool. :)

[deank]

I took a step forward and converted all 1080p demo materials from the Panasonic 3D Demo Blu-ray to anaglyph 3D (red/cyan glasses needed).

I kept the 3D intro, 3D motion background menu and four 3D clips (1920x1080p 23.976).

With this conversion it is possible to watch the blu-ray on all TV sets and blu-ray players (including Panasonic Viera TV with SDHC card).

If there is interest I can post few screenshots and download link.

Dean

Basically, what I did can be used for 3D Blu-ray to anaglyph 3D movie only conversion, which is not bad at all. :)

[setarip_old]

@deank

By all means, please do post a link (and, perhaps, a link to "H264StereoSource plug-in?) ;>}

With this conversion it is possible to watch the blu-ray on all TV sets and blu-ray players (including Panasonic Viera TV with SDHC card). I've read that the "New" type of 3D requires TVs with 120Hz capability. If this is so, how did you overcome/circumvent that requirement - or are the Panasonic demos anaglyphto start with?

[deank]

Links [here] (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1410456#post1410456).

Overcoming real 3D and converting it to anaglyph 3D requires this plugin (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5C92CERN) for avisynth and takes a lot of time (like ~1.5fps encoding rate).

No, I used 3D blu-ray disc structure, not anaglyph and that's why I posted, because I thought it may be of some interest.

http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/3D/multiAVCHD_4.2_03.jpg

Dean

[setarip_old]

@deank

The screen shots you've posted do not seem to have the 3D effect. Would you be able to post a large screencap directly from one of the short videos - that might better exhibit the 3D effect? (I've tried Red/Cyan, Red/Blue, and Red/Green glasses, to no avail - other than heightened luminosity)...

[crl2007]

@deank

By all means, please do post a link (and, perhaps, a link to "H264StereoSource plug-in?) ;>}

I've read that the "New" type of 3D requires TVs with 120Hz capability. If this is so, how did you overcome/circumvent that requirement - or are the Panasonic demos anaglyphto start with?


What deank did here is pure anaglyph from a BD 3D source, more exactly the Panasonic 3D Demo disc. So every player can playback this files. And the 3D effects are astonishing compared to the old anaglyph ( now you can have the correct right eye stream ).

To keep all the new 3D features and compatibility with various 3D TV sets and 3D glasses kits, you need to obtain 2 streams ( left and right ) and use Stereoscopic Player (http://www.3dtv.at/Index_en.aspx). The thing with new 3D stereoscopic files is that you can not play them from your card or usb of your TV set. You can try and do a Side - by - Side conversion, but you'll end up with enormous width and height and thus for not playable from a HDD, usb or card. The only way to play them from a card or usb is to convert them to anaglyph. Or you can connect your tv to the pc and use stereoscopic player.

If you'll like, I can post a tutorial on how it's done with these new Blu-Ray discs, but the decoding / encoding time is insanely slow. 3 fps max on a q9550. It's that the plugin hasn't mature yet and the author abandoned it.

http://thumbnails22.imagebam.com/8529/b1b1ef85285408.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/b1b1ef85285408)

[setarip_old]

@crl2007

"deank" has already responded to me, in this thread, in a very concise and complete manner...

[deank]

@setarip: You can try it now for HD-DVD, too (+SD-DVD). Let me know if you can test it.

I'm sorry to take over the BD-Rebuilder topic, so I'll continue the conversations related to anaglyph 3D in the appropriate topic.

Dean

[deank]

@setarip: I got your email, but as usual my replies get bounced back.

I'll try to upload the anaglyph videos via HTTP (using rapidshare). All are converted to MKV, so you'll be able to do anything you want with them.

Dean :)

[setarip_old]

@deank @setarip: You can try it now for HD-DVD, too (+SD-DVD). Let me know if you can test it.I'd be happy to do so - if you can direct me to or provide me with source material that multiAVCHD recognizes for conversion to anaglyph 3D (NOT greyed out)...

BTW - The concept works fine, with no further trial necessary - The anaglyph 3D versions of both last year's "Coraline"and "Journey to the Center of the Earth" converted to perfectly performing HD-DVDs...

[setarip_old]

I just came across an article/review regarding PowerDVD 10 Ultra in the July issue of PC World.

In addition to describing the many additional formats it is now capable of playing was the following simple statement: Another new feature is the ability to upscale 2D to 3D (It additionally stated that, "A future free upgrade will fully support the 3D Blu-ray titles coming this summer.")

[Adub]

Okay, I have to ask. How the hell are they going from 2D to 3D in realtime? I thought that in order to go from 2D to 3D, the original producers had to go through frame by frame and add the second dimension in my hand. Anyone know the details on PowerDVD's apparent magic upscale?

[jdobbs]

Okay, I have to ask. How the hell are they going from 2D to 3D in realtime? I thought that in order to go from 2D to 3D, the original producers had to go through frame by frame and add the second dimension in my hand. Anyone know the details on PowerDVD's apparent magic upscale? I'm with you. I have to believe it can't be very effective.

[Adub]

Glad to know I'm not crazy then.

[setarip_old]

I'm guessing that "deank" will be able to offer some insight...

BTW - Perhaps you folks are reading too much into it. The statement regarding this PowerDVDUltra, which is remember, a "suite", says nothing about "real time", "on the fly", or even "playback".

Perhaps the suite will contain a separate conversion program...

[crl2007]

You can achieve the same with TotalMedia Theatre 3 with 3D Plugin. Realtime, on the fly 2D to 3D, but the outcoming has some depth, not 3D effects. It isn't something to be desired or used. It's a false 3D. I would never use such a feature to distort the movies.

Here is more for you to read:

http://3dvision-blog.com/converting-2d-videos-to-3d-using-virtualdub-and-the-avisynth-script/
http://3dvision-blog.com/impressive-realtime-2d-to-3d-video-conversion-for-3d-vision/
http://www.springerlink.com/content/nl0400w18507q533/
http://www.pantarheon.org/AviSynth3DToolbox/

And I never use PowerDVD since the hdd folder support has been removed. I recommend TotalMedia Theatre 3.

[setarip_old]

@jdobbs, @Adub

I guess we'll just have to wait a while to see what PowerDVD's (my personal favorite) offering will be comprised of...

[Adub]

Ah, I see. They use motion vectors to essentially interpolate another dimension or 'eye'. I'd really have to see it first before I'd buy into the technology.

[vsv]

AnaLglyph and 2D->3D conversion is POS :devil:
Why people want to watch sh*t?!

[rotty]

Now I know im gonna upset a lot of people by saying this but......

I can’t believe anyone is talking about converting 3D Blu Ray to Anaglyph 3d.

Not only is there obviously no true colour content but certain colours can’t appear in both fields anyway.

For example, a RED object can be seen in one eye but is black in the CYAN filtered eye and therefore gives a completely false 3D image (vice versa).

We should NOT be even contemplating this approach to re-building/compressing 3D Blu Ray.

NOT THE WAY TO GO

What annoys me more is that im old enough (thats the bit that annoys me) to remember Anaglyph 3d at the Cinema, effective and entertaining but not for our Hi Def BD age EH.

[A.Fenderson]

I don't think anyone suggested that converting to anaglyph be the default (or only) way in which BD-Rebuilder handles MVC-encoded content. But it would be an interesting *option*, in that anyone could then play back the disc regardless of their player or TV, and still get some sort of 3D effect. I'd imagine that since it's trivial to decode the base MVC stream, the default means of handling these in BD-RB, failing full MVC reencode support coming along in x264, would be to convert to normal 2D.

[setarip_old]

@rotty

Hi! I can’t believe anyone is talking about converting 3D Blu Ray to Anaglyph 3d.

1) Have you downloaded and viewed the converted-to-anaglyph demos made available by "deank"? Most of them are quite striking and effective.

2) Have you watched either or both of the anaglyph 3D versions of (live action and CGI) "Journey to the Center of the Earth" and (animated) "Coraline"? The 3D effects of "Journey to the Center of the Earth" were poor at best, while the 3D effects of "Coraline" were quite acceptable.

3) I, for one, am not ready to buy into the "new" 3D concept/gimmick yet. Requires new TV, new BD player, battery powered glasses (only two pairs included with TV purchase) at $50 to $100 per pair. Are you or your kids/grandkids thinking of having neighbors over for a pizza and 3D movie party? How many extra pairs of glasses are you willing/able to purchase? Do you sense (as I do) that the movie and video hardware industries felt they had to come up with another way to syphon money out of consumers' pockets, in light of the fact that BluRay has not grown anywhere near as quickly as they had hoped for?

4) When I first watched Vincent Price in the 3D version of "House of Wax" in a movie theater in 1953, it just totally amazed me - and scared the heck out of me as well ;>} The only negative aspect that i recall, was the headache I developed a few minutes after the theater lights came back up.

5) For the time being, I'll be satisfied to tinker, for the sheer fun of it, with new 3D releases (if it will be possible with the commercially released discs) in the same manner as "deank" has done with demo discs - as well as 2D to 3D anaglyph conversions, if easy-to-use and quick-to-convert software becomes available.

[rotty]

Hi Setarip

I have seen "Journey to the Centre of the Earth" anaglyph and it works OK but, (and this is only a personal opinion) it is totally destroyed by all the other anaglyph problems and is very very fatiguing on the eye/brain.

I know what you are saying re new equipment etc and a bit of a gimmick but it just seems that we are taking a hi tech true 3D approach and returning it back to the reason that early 3D failed in the Cinema.

As I say, I can see your side of it completely, it just doesn’t work for me.

As for the fun of it, then YES I would totally agree with you on that.

[deank]

I can’t believe anyone is talking about converting 3D Blu Ray to Anaglyph 3d.

***

We should NOT be even contemplating this approach to re-building/compressing 3D Blu Ray.

My comment about anaglyph 3D was not directed at BD Rebuilder's future options or anything... For me it was the easiest (and only possible) way to watch a 3D disc on my non-3D equipment and believe me, I'm not going to spend few thousand euros for new TV and new player with two funny 3D Blu-ray titles out there.

And - yes - it is just for fun.

Now, the technical stuff... 3D backup would require:

1) MVC decoding for both views -> you get 2 streams (L+R)
2) MVC encoding (x264?) -> 2 input streams (avs) -> 2 output files (full left + delta right)
3) MVC muxing for right-view delta

So far so good.

4) (Re)creating SSIF structure for all MVC files (m2ts pairs).

This is a step which would require a lot of work from / collaboration with the author of ImgBurn (or other burning applications - are there any?! :)).

Out of steps 2 and 3 you get (let's say):

30MB - 00001.m2ts (main 2D video / left eye + audio, subtitles, etc)
10MB - 00002.m2ts (delta video for recreating right eye video)

Then for both you must create a corresponding SSIF file (each L+R .m2ts pair requires one .ssif)

00001.ssif (in STREAM\SSIF folder) which contains all 192-byte packets from both 00001 and 00002.m2ts files, so it has their combined size (30+10 = 40MB).

Since SSIF files are decoded internally in 3D Blu-ray players' virtual file system they are NOT actually burned as separate physical files - they occupy 0 physical bytes, but instead share the same data/physical sectors from the Blu-ray disc media as 00001/00002.m2ts (otherwise a blu-ray disc would have to have a capacity of ~80-100GB).

So, once we eventually find the way to 'create' the virtual SSIF files for all pairs, the burning application must be instructed to create proper UDF information for each .ssif - in other words:

00001.m2ts uses physical media sectors 0 to 300
00002.m2ts uses physical media sectors 301 to 400

00001.ssif uses sectors 0, 1, 2, 301, 3, 4, 302, 303, 304, 5, 6... ... ... 298, 397, 398, 299, 300, 399, 400

I hope you get the idea.

From the above list of 4 steps, afaik we know how to accomplish the 1st one only.


@A.Fenderson: I think that in its current version, BD-Rebuilder should handle just fine 3D Blu-ray titles in "Movie-only" mode to get "2D movie-only version" of the disc. It shouldn't be very hard to implement 'full' backup of 3D titles in 2D mode, however it will require some tweaks in movieobject.bdmv to 'strip' all commands, which would eventually identify your player as 3D compliant, and forcing playback of the 2D version only.

Dean

[setarip_old]

@deank I think that in its current version, BD-Rebuilder should handle just fine 3D Blu-ray titles in "Movie-only" mode to get "2D movie-only version" of the disc. It shouldn't be very hard to implement 'full' backup of 3D titles in 2D mode, however it will require some tweaks in movieobject.bdmv to 'strip' all commands, which would eventually identify your player as 3D compliant, and forcing playback of the 2D version only.
Unless I'm mistaken, I read somewhere that new 3D disc releases will already have that functionality - and will automatically switch to 2D output on non-3D equipment.

If so, wouldn't this obviate the need for any "tweaking" by BD-RB?

[deank]

What will happen if you in fact have a 3D Blu-ray player? BD-Rebuilder won't produce the proper structure and the player will hang.

[setarip_old]

(We're now going beyond my ken, but) I'm presuming BD-RB would not have a problem simply copying the new 3D/2D switch/flag...

[KarstenS]

When the time is there, that there is progress on copying 3D streams as 3D streams, I will be able to test ist. Have bought "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs" as 3D BD. 3D TV is also at home and TMT3 with the 3D plugin is installed too (not tested yet, that it really works as it should).

[colinhunt]

When the time is there, that there is progress on copying 3D streams as 3D streams, I will be able to test ist. Have bought "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs" as 3D BD. 3D TV is also at home and TMT3 with the 3D plugin is installed too (not tested yet, that it really works as it should).
You mean you would play "Cloudy" 3D on the PC which is connected to a 3D HDTV? That won't work, unfortunately. On the PC, 3D playback is "time-sequential" 120fps (a.k.a. page flip) which 3D HDTVs are unable to process. A stand-alone Blu-ray 3D player outputs "frame packed" 1920x2205@24p which is the HDMI 1.4 approved standard for 3D. In other words, 3D on the PC and 3D on stand-alone 3D players are very different and not compatible with each other.

[KarstenS]

You mean you would play "Cloudy" 3D on the PC which is connected to a 3D HDTV? That won't work, unfortunately. On the PC, 3D playback is "time-sequential" 120fps (a.k.a. page flip) which 3D HDTVs are unable to process. A stand-alone Blu-ray 3D player outputs "frame packed" 1920x2205@24p which is the HDMI 1.4 approved standard for 3D. In other words, 3D on the PC and 3D on stand-alone 3D players are very different and not compatible with each other.

Look at this screenshot:

http://www.arcsoft.com/files/_2010526_192653_0.jpg

Source (http://www.arcsoft.com/en-us/software_title.asp?ProductCode=Sim3d&dyContent=BUYNOW#submenu)

Please inform about 3DTV. My Samsung LE40C750 uses for 3D 120Hz frame sequential output with shutter glasses, like all other 3DTVs that actually get sold.

EDIT: Please also read HDMI 1.4 specs. It supports more than one way for 3D transport:

"Field Alternative, Frame Alternative, Line Alternative, Side-by-side half/full, L + Depth, L + Depth + Graphics + Graphics Depth"

Source (http://www.hifi-regler.de/hdmi/hdmi-1_4.php?SID=ab9199d86eebe35c27b7195fc3c35128#hdmi_14_3D_videoformate)

And by the way, my TV has support for "Field Alternative, Frame Alternative, Line Alternative, Side-by-side" and maybe the last things too. But I don't know what this is.

[colinhunt]

Look at this screenshot
Under the image on Arcsoft's website:

PageFlip – Select this mode if your display is a Frame Sequential NVIDIA 3D Vision 120Hz (or higher) display, AMD Quad Buffer Stereo monitor, or HDMI 1.4 3DTV*. This type of display normally works with active (battery-powered) shutter glasses.

The * points to this sentence: "Compatible graphics driver is required." Have you heard of Nvidia's 3DTV PLAY? It's a software application created for making PCs compatible with HDMI 1.4 3D HDTVs. Why would Nvidia bother making such a software if 3D HDTVs support PC's 120fps pageflipping configuration?

My Samsung LE40C750 uses for 3D 120Hz frame sequential output with shutter glasses, like all other 3DTVs that actually get sold.
By "output" you mean it displays 120 frames per second? Yeah, it does. And so do the others. But this is not about "output", this is about input. HDMI 1.4 spec does not support full 1920x1080 resolution input at 120fps, which is what PC page flipping is. I also think different versions of HDMI might be a problem, as the PC is only 1.3.

Please also read HDMI 1.4 specs. It supports more than one way for 3D transport
I have the HDMI 1.4a spec in front of me, and yes, it specifies many transport methods. But most of them are not mandatory, so 3D HDTVs don't have to support them. These are mandatory:

An HDMI Sink which supports at least one 59.94 / 60Hz 2D video format shall support all of:
- 1920x1080p @ 23.98 / 24Hz Frame packing
- 1280x720p @ 59.94 / 60Hz Frame packing
- 1920x1080i @ 59.94 / 60Hz Side-by-Side (Half)
- 1920x1080p @ 23.98 / 24Hz Top-and-Bottom
- 1280x720p @ 59.94 / 60Hz Top-and-Bottom

An HDMI Sink which supports at least one 50Hz 2D video format shall support all of:
- 1920x1080p @ 23.98 / 24Hz Frame packing
- 1280x720p @ 50Hz Frame packing
- 1920x1080i @ 50Hz Side-by-Side (Half)
- 1920x1080p @ 23.98 / 24Hz Top-and-Bottom
- 1280x720p @ 50Hz Top-and-Bottom

In the timings list the closest to pageflipping is either 1920x1080i120 or 1920x1080p120 Side-by-Side or Top-and-Bottom only. However, 1920x1080i120 is interlaced and the latter one is either half the horizontal resolution (Side-by-Side) or half the vertical resolution (Top-and-Bottom). Both are also listed under Secondary 3D Video Format Timings, not under Primary timings.

One more thing: In YouTube there's a 7-part video demonstration about Cineform's new Neo3D plug-in for Adobe Premiere CS5. In one of the videos the user chooses to output 3D from the PC to a Panasonic Viera 3D TV - but he has to select Side-by-Side configuration for it to work. That means 960x1080 resolution for each eye instead of Blu-ray 3D's 1920x1080 for each eye.

[KarstenS]

The * points to this sentence: "Compatible graphics driver is required." Have you heard of Nvidia's 3DTV PLAY? It's a software application created for making PCs compatible with HDMI 1.4 3D HDTVs. Why would Nvidia bother making such a software if 3D HDTVs support PC's 120fps pageflipping configuration?


The reason for this software of nvidia is: money.

When using a 3D TV you don't have to buy the whole 3D Vision stuff. So they decided to make 3D TV support as a software you have to pay for. With 3DTV Play you not only get support for Blu-Ray 3D. You get full 3D Vision software, that also support 3D gaming. Users that already bought 3D vision get this update for free.

AMD/ATI went another way. They added support for 3D TV in Catalyst 10.3 for free. But they added really nothing more than 3D TV support. Support for Blu-Ray 3D and 3D gaming is something the software developers has to do itself. Arcsoft added this support in their software and Cyberlink will bring an update soon.

[colinhunt]

AMD/ATI went another way. They added support for 3D TV in Catalyst 10.3 for free. But they added really nothing more than 3D TV support. Support for Blu-Ray 3D and 3D gaming is something the software developers has to do itself. Arcsoft added this support in their software and Cyberlink will bring an update soon.
You've tested this and verified for yourself that it works? Regardless, support in PC software for 3D HDTVs means that the PC is converting images on-the-fly to a format supported by 3D HDTVs - so the native-to-PC 120fps page flipping format is not compatible with 3D HDTVs.

And Arcsoft's player has to go through the display driver. So if the driver does not support 3D TVs, there's nothing Arcsoft can do. Hence the "Compatible graphics driver is required" disclaimer on their website.

edit: Googled a bit about Catalyst 10.3 and judging by a post on the 3D Vision Blog, Catalyst 10.3 does not enable Blu-ray 3D playback on a HDMI 1.4 3D HDTV. Also, found this thread, http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=279&threadid=136352 on the AMD Game Forums. Note the last post, dated 20.7., where someone asked AMD's rep about Blu-ray 3D playback on 3D TVs, and the rep replied "later this year". So it's not working yet.

[KarstenS]

You've tested this and verified for yourself that it works?

Now I have tested it and...it works. I had to acivate the PC Mode of my TV. Then it is possible to select 3D modes that the player give me as output. I tried line interleave and checkboard. Works in both modes. But only with TMT it looks like it should. With PowerDVD it give me a strange result.

But there is a big problem: No GPU acceleration at moment :( My Athlon64 x2 6000+ isn't fast enough for full speed.

But you are right. Real BD 3D output is different. Nvidia will bring this with its 3DTV software and ATI made an announcement in the internal Q2 roadmap.

But this was not the point, why I did write my first post in this thread. I wrote it to announce that I can test BDRebuilder with 3D Blu Ray, when there is some progress.

[colinhunt]

Now I have tested it and...it works. I had to acivate the PC Mode of my TV. Then it is possible to select 3D modes that the player give me as output. I tried line interleave and checkboard. Works in both modes.
That's no surprise, as both line interleave and checkerboard are 100% compatible with existing specs. That's why SKY's satellite 3D broadcasts work with existing satellite set-top boxes. But you are losing half of vertical or horizontal resolution; that's the problem.

But this was not the point, why I did write my first post in this thread. I wrote it to announce that I can test BDRebuilder with 3D Blu Ray, when there is some progress.
Yup. I can test BD-RB with Blu-ray 3D too, at Full HD resolution, with Nvidia 3D Vision and LG W2363D 3D display :)

[jdobbs]

I hope and suspect that someone is thinking about this over in the X264 group. Since that's where most of the magic happens, that's also where the real work will be done.

[KarstenS]

X264 group

Hmm. ffdshow too. Without decoding, no encoding or is it possible to use the codec of PDVD/TMT3?

There is really much, that has to be done :(

[jdobbs]

Hmm. ffdshow too. Without decoding, no encoding or is it possible to use the codec of PDVD/TMT3?

There is really much, that has to be done :( True.

[KarstenS]

True.

Have found an interesting software:

http://www.biohemmet.se/forum/viewtopic.php?id=245

This software is able to convert 3D BDs into MKV/AVI files and you can convert it into into individual files (2 mkv files. one for right and one for left eye), Side-By-Side and so on.

The interesting thing for BD-Rebuilder would be, how the software reads them. Maybe he would give you some advice for first steps how to make 3D BD support.

[deank]

We discussed the avisynth plugin in the first page of this thread. The problem is not reading the stereo information (SSIF) but re-creating it after encode/rebuild.

Converting 3D Blu-ray to stereo top/bottom, left/right or red/cyan, green/magenta anaglyph is not a problem and is already implemented.

Dean

[KarstenS]

We discussed the avisynth plugin in the first page of this thread. The problem is not reading the stereo information (SSIF)

Sorry. Then I didn't understood. I thought reading and decoding is also a problem. So I was in hope, it would help a little bit.

Other thing:

After I've ripped the BD, I got a folder with a size of 74,6GB. But double layer BD only can store up to 50GB. So I think the 2D data is stored physically once. But how to get it as it is? The magic is called "hard links". The 3D files contains natively only the extended 3D stuff, but reads out the 2D stuff by hard linking to the 2D playback files.

EDIT: The other direction seems to be the better idea. Not the SSIF file is linked to the m2ts. I think the m2ts file is, frame by frame, linked to the 2d stuff within the SSIF file, as also with a 3DBD continuous read should be possible.

[deank]

I posted about the physical sharing of SSIF files with m2ts files and that it will require ImgBurn author's collaboration at a later point to build proper ISO for 3D Blu-ray backups.

[icester]

I posted about the physical sharing of SSIF files with m2ts files and that it will require ImgBurn author's collaboration at a later point to build proper ISO for 3D Blu-ray backups.

Yes, but he will need the exact ssif file format.

I think it cost around US$ 800.

http://www.blu-raydisc.info/format-spec/rom3-spec.php

May be someone has a copy to share.


Mathew Orman

[deank]

No, he doesn't need the SSIF specs, because the SSIF is 1:1 to the corresponding M2TS file.


for example:

00001.m2ts
00002.m2ts --> 00002.ssif
00009.m2ts
00011.m2ts
00012.m2ts --> 00012.ssif

He doesn't have to care about the contents of these files, but to make sure that both are described in the disc TOC as occupying the same physical sectors.

Dean

[dirio49]

No, he doesn't need the SSIF specs, because the SSIF is 1:1 to the corresponding M2TS file.


for example:

00001.m2ts
00002.m2ts --> 00002.ssif
00009.m2ts
00011.m2ts
00012.m2ts --> 00012.ssif

He doesn't have to care about the contents of these files, but to make sure that both are described in the disc TOC as occupying the same physical sectors.

Dean
Imgburn already supports this given that those two files are bit identical. The files will share the same physical sectors.

Optimise Duplicate Files

ImgBurn will look for and optimise duplicate files so that only one copy of that file actually exists in the image or on the disc.

Imgburn 2.2.0.0
Added: Build mode now has the ability to look for and optimise duplicate files so that only 1 copy of that
file actually exists in the ISO/on the disc.

[icester]

No, he doesn't need the SSIF specs, because the SSIF is 1:1 to the corresponding M2TS file.


for example:

00001.m2ts
00002.m2ts --> 00002.ssif
00009.m2ts
00011.m2ts
00012.m2ts --> 00012.ssif

He doesn't have to care about the contents of these files, but to make sure that both are described in the disc TOC as occupying the same physical sectors.

Dean

Well, if that was true the newly created ssif would work.
But according to this one spec the ssif is more complex.
See the public documentation at:

http://www.tyrell-innovations-usa.com/samples/BDspec18780.pdf

Mathew Orman

[icester]

OK,
so the imgburn assumes ssif is defect free.
I was just hoping that someone knows how to create new ssif using the two base view and dependent view h.264 files.

Mathew Orman

[KarstenS]

The SSIF and M2TS are not exactly the same.

The SSIF contains the whole data for both views. The M2TS is only linking to one view within the SSIF file.

[icester]

The SSIF and M2TS are not exactly the same.

The SSIF contains the whole data for both views. The M2TS is only linking to one view within the SSIF file.
From the documentation it looks like both files are broken into 1 or more seconds long blocks and joined sequentially like LRLRLRLRL etc. So there must be a header in SSIF file that specifies the length of the blocks and starting block order and more.
But those are only speculations and in order to create or recreate such SSIF file one would need to know the exact file format specification.

Mathew Orman

[icester]

There is an US Patent filed by some Japanese company on electronic circuit of a BD3D Player. Patent reviles some of the SSIF file structure but unfortunately it does not list the byte size of all fields.
May be I should dig more at uspto.gov and may be there is a patent for such SSIF file.


Mathew Orman

[jdobbs]

OK,
so the imgburn assumes ssif is defect free.
I was just hoping that someone knows how to create new ssif using the two base view and dependent view h.264 files.

Mathew Orman That's something that has to be done at the time of the write... because you would have two file chains that are pointing to the same sectors. You can only do that if you are writing the disc output or are creating an ISO.

[icester]

That's something that has to be done at the time of the write... because you would have two file chains that are pointing to the same sectors. You can only do that if you are writing the disc output or are creating an ISO.
So you say that SSIF file on hard drive which is NTFS is the same as when creating UDF image?

In any case the program that creates the ISO or a disk folder need to know how to create SSIF file.
imgburn only converts ready disk folder to ISO.

Mathew Orman

[Stormcrow]

So you say that SSIF file on hard drive which is NTFS is the same as when creating UDF image?

In any case the program that creates the ISO or a disk folder need to know how to create SSIF file.
imgburn only converts ready disk folder to ISO.

Mathew Orman


I think the reason why we can't rip 3D BDs to HDD at a sensible size is that NTFS doesn't supports the same type of linking that UDF 2.5 does. It seems that the files on a UDF disk can have elements that point to the same actual physical sectors as others. When ripped, each file will replicate the full contents, and not simply appear as a link. Simple file copying is not good enough.

If the structure of UDF 2.5 can't be replicated under NTFS, then perhaps someone needs to write a driver that can create a virtual UDF drive contained within an NTFS or FAT file.

Then we can possibly rip to a virtual UDF drive which supports all the necessary linkages etc.

That may be total rubbish, of course.


--
SC

[dirio49]

If the structure of UDF 2.5 can't be replicated under NTFS, then perhaps someone needs to write a driver that can create a virtual UDF drive contained within an NTFS or FAT file.

Then we can possibly rip to a virtual UDF drive which supports all the necessary linkages etc.

That may be total rubbish, of course.


--
SC

I think the structure is created the same. Because if you think about it in the bd there are two files that are the same and same size. Just because they are linked in UDF.

As for the rip drive, i think it would be pointless.
So what you have two files that are the same.
when you burn or create the image the application with take care of the mirroring/linkage.

[icester]

I think the reason why we can't rip 3D BDs to HDD at a sensible size is that NTFS doesn't supports the same type of linking that UDF 2.5 does. It seems that the files on a UDF disk can have elements that point to the same actual physical sectors as others. When ripped, each file will replicate the full contents, and not simply appear as a link. Simple file copying is not good enough.

If the structure of UDF 2.5 can't be replicated under NTFS, then perhaps someone needs to write a driver that can create a virtual UDF drive contained within an NTFS or FAT file.

Then we can possibly rip to a virtual UDF drive which supports all the necessary linkages etc.

That may be total rubbish, of course.


--
SC

It seems that the BD driver is taking care of it or is it the ISO creator program?

If SSIF file has the same storage address as the m2ts then by erasing the mt2s files from stream directly should make the SSIF file pointing to NULL. But it is not becasue I have tested by erasing the m2ts files. The SSIF still plays the 2D file without audio if it is renamed to m2ts.

So how ImgBurn can creates correct SSIF file is a mystery.

Mathew Orman

[icester]

I think the reason why we can't rip 3D BDs to HDD at a sensible size is that NTFS doesn't supports the same type of linking that UDF 2.5 does. It seems that the files on a UDF disk can have elements that point to the same actual physical sectors as others. When ripped, each file will replicate the full contents, and not simply appear as a link. Simple file copying is not good enough.

If the structure of UDF 2.5 can't be replicated under NTFS, then perhaps someone needs to write a driver that can create a virtual UDF drive contained within an NTFS or FAT file.

Then we can possibly rip to a virtual UDF drive which supports all the necessary linkages etc.

That may be total rubbish, of course.


--
SC

Yes such UDF drive is used in DEAMON Tools.

Mathew Orman

[jdobbs]

So you say that SSIF file on hard drive which is NTFS is the same as when creating UDF image?

In any case the program that creates the ISO or a disk folder need to know how to create SSIF file.
imgburn only converts ready disk folder to ISO.

Mathew Orman I don't think I've ever seen a SSIF on a hard drive -- so I couldn't say. But my guess would be that it is a copy of both components of the SSIF on the blu-ray -- which isn't the same thing... unless of course you have a blu-ray that is big enough... but if you check them out you'll see that they would be more than the 50GB max.

[icester]

I don't think I've ever seen a SSIF on a hard drive -- so I couldn't say. But my guess would be that it is a copy of both components of the SSIF on the blu-ray -- which isn't the same thing... unless of course you have a blu-ray that is big enough... but if you check them out you'll see that they would be more than the 50GB max.

There is no restriction of minimum size on BD.
My examples are around 350 MB on 3DBD and 700 MB when stored on hard drive.
I can mount the ISO and play 3D movie using TotalMedia Theater 3D. I can burn the ISO into my BD-RE and play it using both PwerDVD 10 and TotalMedia Theater 3D.
Looks like ImgBurn ISO creator knows how to handle SSIF or else my 3DBD would not play.

Mathew Orman

[jdobbs]

There is no restriction of minimum size on BD.
My examples are around 350 MB on 3DBD and 700 MB when stored on hard drive.
I can mount the ISO and play 3D movie using TotalMedia Theater 3D. I can burn the ISO into my BD-RE and play it using both PwerDVD 10 and TotalMedia Theater 3D.
Looks like ImgBurn ISO creator knows how to handle SSIF or else my 3DBD would not play.

Mathew OrmanHuh? Who ever said anything about a minimum size? What you have to worry about is the maximum. You won't find any commercial 3D titles that are 350MB and 700MB... it's nice to have examples -- but that doesn't solve anything.

I'm getting a sense that you don't understand the real issue here... the problem is that without the ability to link both M2TS files at a virtual level (multiple links to the same sectors), you would have to have two copies of at least one side of the stereo images. It's doable, but that means you'd take a big hit in quality reduction.

[icester]

Huh? Who ever said anything about a minimum size? What you have to worry about is the maximum. You won't find any commercial 3D titles that are 350MB and 700MB... it's nice to have examples -- but that doesn't solve anything.

I'm getting a sense that you don't understand the real issue here... the problem is that without the ability to link both M2TS files at a virtual level (multiple links to the same sectors), you would have to have two copies of at least one side of the stereo images. It's doable, but that means you'd take a big hit in quality reduction.

That is not a problem at all as we have terabyte drives now.
Ripping 3DBDs is already solved as we have programs that create full HD 3D side by side on a hard drive.

The problem is creating 3DBDs as the cheapest program cost around US$7000.

That is why it is so important to find out the original structure of the SSIF file.

Mathew Orman

[jdobbs]

Okay... you missed the point again. Since you're obviously much smarter than I am, I'm out of this conversation. Good luck.

[icester]

Okay... you missed the point again. Since you're obviously much smarter than I am, I'm out of this conversation. Good luck.

Well,
if you are concerned about ripped output quality compared to the original on a 3DBD then you should not be as there is no loss at all.

If I am still missing the point then please give my some hints
as English is not my prime language.

I am an US citizen but born in Poland.


Mathew Orman

[k-c-ksum]

as the right eye MVC m2ts is relatively small compared to the left eye avc m2ts it could be possible to just re-encode the the avc m2ts video, leaving the mvc alone. The only other obsticle would be creating a new Siff file. The shrek movies are about 35gb in size with about 12 audio tracks, removing the dead wood tracks and re-encoding the left eye avc stream should yeild good pq. on a bd-25.

anyone have any idea how to create the siff file? its file size matches the combined left/right eye streams but is bogus as its just mirroring the disc sectors occupied by the m2ts files.

dvdfab can creates a side by side encode which is a half decent fix until full hd 3d is possible with freeware

[KarstenS]

I think the reason why we can't rip 3D BDs to HDD at a sensible size is that NTFS doesn't supports the same type of linking that UDF 2.5 does.

[...]

If the structure of UDF 2.5 can't be replicated under NTFS

NTFS is also supporting that type of linking. But no ripping tool make use of it. A simple filecopy with OS functions is much more easy than direct acessing the filesystem(s) and analyze the structure.

But an easy way to solve this problem is to ignore the m2ts file of the main movie completely.

As this linking list is only used for backward compatibility to non 3D BD players and this feature is optional, it would be easier to build 3D disks that contains the SSIF version only and put the 2D version away.

[jdobbs]

NTFS is also supporting that type of linking. But no ripping tool make use of it. A simple filecopy with OS functions is much more easy than direct acessing the filesystem(s) and analyze the structure. Unless you're planning to keep it on harddrive permanently, I don't think that really matters. What matters, I would think, is how it is written back out to BD. If I remember correctly, that was the point DeanK was making in post #54.

[deank]

No, he doesn't need the SSIF specs, because the SSIF is 1:1 to the corresponding M2TS file.


for example:

00001.m2ts
00002.m2ts --> 00002.ssif
00009.m2ts
00011.m2ts
00012.m2ts --> 00012.ssif

He doesn't have to care about the contents of these files, but to make sure that both are described in the disc TOC as occupying the same physical sectors.

Dean

Err... actually I made a mistake with the example... Last time I looked at 3d structure was months ago...

Yes, the ssifs have the data mirrored from 2 m2ts files, not from 1 only.

00001.m2ts --> 00001.ssif
00002.m2ts --> 00001.ssif
00009.m2ts
00011.m2ts --> 00011.ssif
00012.m2ts --> 00011.ssif

[Saibling]

jdobbs, I'm with you!

The SSIF file can just describe the way to "Link" the original m2ts files - otherwise we would have m2ts left view + m2ts right view + ssif both view! if the SSIF was an own "multiview-file" then we would not need to have both of the m2ts files in addition to it...

the other - and i think BIGGER - problem will be to first find out which information is stored in the second (right) m2ts file... if i try to load it in any muxer i can't even have a look on it, because it doesn't open...

[Cedvano]

Hi everybody,

I would like to help you for 3D blu-ray.
I read all subjet and i found your answer interesting.

Do you know a good iso reader ?
I would like to change m2ts file in iso with a smaller file. And then, compare the size of SSIF.
If you theroy of linking MT2S file is good. The SSIF file be smaller when I replace the M2TS.

What do you think about it ?

[KarstenS]

When you rip the files in the ISO and delete the m2ts file, then the folder size should match the to the disk size.

Both to get rebuild will actually be hard because of missing ISO builder that supports that kind linking (but there must be one out there, as it gets used for the §DBDs that get sold).

But for movie only this would give some options. As the backwardcompatibility is an optional feature, it should be possible to chose between rebuild to 2D or rebuild as 3D only. In both ways no linking would be needed.

As Clown BD is able to demux both video streams out of the ssif file, I think both video streams are discrete and nothing like joint stereo.

And when it is possible to demux, it should be possible to mux to ssif.

If someone could make a small video with one of the new 3D camcorders, it should be possible to analyze the AVCHD output and use it as a preset for generating 3D movie only disks.

[Cedvano]

I search for a 3D AVCHD for analyse.
I would like to know if it's possible to make SSIF without make an ISO !

[jdobbs]

I search for a 3D AVCHD for analyse.
I would like to know if it's possible to make SSIF without make an ISO ! You can very easily copy a 3D disc to your hard drive including the SSIF folder. It will be much larger than the disc itself because of repeated sectors. Right now there is no way of which I'm aware to write it back out (except at the larger size with repeated sectors).

[Cedvano]

You can very easily copy a 3D disc to your hard drive including the SSIF folder. It will be much larger than the disc itself because of repeated sectors. Right now there is no way of which I'm aware to write it back out (except at the larger size with repeated sectors).

If I burn this copy (with larger SSIF) on a BD, I can read this with 3D effet on my TV ? I test it immediatly.
Edit 18:12: Tested and work fine.

Edit: Another question :
Have you see the file that follow the M2TS file ?
For shrek 2: There is 00000.m2ts (24Gb) then 00001.m2ts (10Gb)
I can't read this file. Is the Right Eye of 3D ??

[Saibling]

Cedvano, you're right, the second m2ts IS the second part of the 3D-view. The point is, that this one is only played, because the SSIF "includes it" into the first stream.

the next problem - apart from creating "repeating sectors" - for rebuilding a 3D-disc could be the handling of the "incomplete" second stream. But I think there are other 3D-programs (like DVDFab e.g.) that CAN handle this... so it should be possible to also work with it (for compressing)

[Cedvano]

Yes, I see that for the second stream.
When I add up the first M2TS with the second, I have the SSIF file.

I test for re-encoding the second stream and I have some conclusive tests. But I continue.

If you have the solution for creating ssif, I'm interested.

[Cedvano]

I advance.
I can reduce the 3D blu-ray putting everything in one m2ts files.

The M2TS is in AVC Multi. And I can read this in my 3D player like a commercial BD3D.

[Saibling]

What kind of "3D output" do you talk about? side by side (left right) or over under (top bottom), full size or half size, avc or mvc?!

[Cedvano]

What kind of "3D output" do you talk about? side by side (left right) or over under (top bottom), full size or half size, avc or mvc?!

It's full HD MVC. Not Side-by-side ou other.

[Saibling]

where did you get the mvc-coder?
are you able to get a real 3d blu ray structure or only to convert a 3d disc into a 3d m2ts file?

[Cedvano]

where did you get the mvc-coder?
are you able to get a real 3d blu ray structure or only to convert a 3d disc into a 3d m2ts file?

For now, I only convert 3D ssif to a 3D file M2TS (MVC).

My file can be read on BD player. Now, I search for convert 3D BD structure.

The advantage, I can reduce file (ex 100Mb to 48Mb) et have good quality.

I work on it.

For the MKV coder, I "theft" on Cyberlink Powerdirector MKV Codec.

[Cedvano]

And, for now, I can had only 1 audio.

[Saibling]

which software do you use to convert and "shrink" your file, that can also convert to mvc?
If you tell me, I would try for myself if I could come any further...

[KarstenS]

You can very easily copy a 3D disc to your hard drive including the SSIF folder. It will be much larger than the disc itself because of repeated sectors.

Only for disks, that are backward compatible to BD players without 3D function. With a clean 3D only disk, that makes no use of this featuren, you get a foldersize equal to the ISO size.

Thats the point. This m2ts file is only used on disks, that sould play also on BD players that are not 3D capable. There are many BD sets out there, for example by Disney, where are 2D and 3D version on separate disks. On this 3D disk, there is no linked m2ts file.

With these disks it should also be possible, to generate a full movie backup without thinking over this ISO linking stuff.

With other disks, which use this backward compatibility stuff, it should also work, when choosing between 2D or 3D version before rebuildung, with the result, that only this version would work later playing back the output.

[Cedvano]

No, when I take "The Beauty and the Beast 3D", the ISO take 37GB. But when I copy files, 67GB.

And it's a 3D only (not playable on 2D player).

[jdobbs]

That's not my experience either. I only have a couple of 3D discs for testing -- but both of them copy as a huge file structure with repeated data, while neither of them will play on a 2D player.

[tymoxa]

There are many BD sets out there, for example by Disney, where are 2D and 3D version on separate disks. On this 3D disk, there is no linked m2ts file.

It's not true. All BD3D disc is backward compatible with 2D players. Publishers just limit this possibility in BD-navigation. To back this compatibility you just need to edit MovieObject.bdmv.

[Ch3vr0n]

It's not true. All BD3D disc is backward compatible with 2D players. Publishers just limit this possibility in BD-navigation. To back this compatibility you just need to edit MovieObject.bdmv.

mind telling us what we need to edit? So they'll play 2D on a 2D only player while still enabling 3D capabilities?

[tymoxa]

mind telling us what we need to edit? So they'll play 2D on a 2D only player while still enabling 3D capabilities?
It's a little bit tricky.
We have to find where values of registers PSR 23/31 is transfered to some GPRs and replace PSRs with constant numbers.
We need BDedit for this.
Let's open folder in bdedit and look at MovieObject 0.
What we search for is on lines 11 and 16.
http://i32.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0207/1a/30136022c4e1c897c48b83087780cc1a.jpg (http://i32.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0207/7e/780af20b5bbd014dd44f53acac97077e.jpg)
Now we need to replace PSR31 to Imm 1245760
http://i27.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0207/13/b702c30422f2538a2c2892cb49246213.jpg (http://i30.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0207/33/c10952139c45aad6ac23273c73894f33.jpg)
and PSR23 to Imm 3
http://i29.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0207/d4/ddd1fbde102db0cf9cae9220b4617ed4.jpg (http://i31.fastpic.ru/big/2012/0207/de/a4b5ae1fdfb8e34c1fe0abfbfa8ee9de.jpg)
PSRs 23/31 must be replaced to this numbers everywhere in the code.
Now Save and check if it's playable as 2D disc.

[Cedvano]

Great, but I want to convert a 3DBD 50Gb to 3DBD 25Gb.

All 3DBD exist in 2DBD, I do not see the utility of making the conversion.

For now, I use Powerdirector 10, I remake menu and burn it to MVC disc (25GB).
I would like to take the MVC converter to make my own MVC convertor.

With this, I can reencode and safe Bonus.

[Saibling]

For now, I use Powerdirector 10, I remake menu and burn it to MVC disc (25GB).

how do you manage to get your original mvc 3d movie in there? i don't know how to set the right input format. i can't find mvc there...

[Cedvano]

I don't change any settings, only the kbps.

[Saibling]

are you able to import the ssif file directly? how do you "remake" the menu? do you create own ones or are you able to import the original and change it?

[Cedvano]

No, I dont use SSIF. I convert to SBS Full with DVDFab. Then I use Powerdirect 10 for the MVC. I mux it in my 2DBD and change settings in BDedit.

[KarstenS]

It's not true. All BD3D disc is backward compatible with 2D players. Publishers just limit this possibility in BD-navigation. To back this compatibility you just need to edit MovieObject.bdmv.

You are right. With testing my 3D BDs here I got to the same result.

The backward compatibility stuff is stored on every disk. On 3D-only disks it is just not offered to the user.

I copied the complete disk of Tron Legacy to my harddrive, deleted every m2ts file, that belongs to ssif files and got a folder with the size of the disk.

And...the most important thing...it played without any issue.

Result: I've made a full working full backup of a 3D-only BD that I could burn to BD....but I've no BD burner (no need for that, I rebuild my movies only for HTPC storage).

[Saibling]

... deleted every m2ts file, that belongs to ssif files and got a folder with the size of the disk.

And...the most important thing...it played without any issue.

But that is exactly the problem: we CAN work with m2ts files, but we can NOT work with ssif files by now.

that's why so far there isn't any chance to shrink such a full 3D MVC SSIF movie to fit on a disc with less storage capability than the original one.

[KarstenS]

but we can NOT work with ssif files by now.

Hmm:

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/8924/ssif.png

DVDFab can do.

3DBDBuster too.

All three can read ssif files, as this ist the onliest way to get left AND right view.

The thing, thats still to do is muxing the result back to ssif.

[jdobbs]

Ok guys... I've been lenient up until now about staying on topic, but this discussion stopping being about DVD or BD Rebuilder a long time ago. How about moving the discussion to another sub-forum? I'm thinking "Blu-ray Authoring" or "Advanced Authoring" -- not sure, but definitely not here.

[Saibling]

We perhaps write here about other programs, but our goal is it to find out how it woks and get it intergrated to bd rebuilder by you jdobbs :)

[jdobbs]

It has nothing to do with writing about other programs... frankly I couldn't care less about them. But this forum is about BD Rebuilder and DVD Rebuilder and neither of those items have had anything to do with the discussion of the last several pages (let alone posts). I'm not saying this isn't interesting, but there are other forums where these types of academic discusssions apply. They just don't belong here. Most importantly -- when people are trying to find out this kind of information or want to discuss it -- this isn't where they are going to logically look for it.

[joshcali]

Ok, so here's an on-topic question...

Is it my understanding (from what I'm reading here) that BD Rebuilder won't back up 3D Blu-Rays for fair use?

is there any solution with BD Rebuilder?

[Ch3vr0n]

BDRB can backup 3DBD's just fine to a 2D only copy. Currently there is NO way with any software to shrink BD3D's to BD25 due to how they're authored.

[jdobbs]

What he said.

[drmih]

BDRB can backup 3DBD's just fine to a 2D only copy. Currently there is NO way with any software to shrink BD3D's to BD25 due to how they're authored.

I have noticed that someone is able to produce bd-25 3D remuxes, so hopefully the method will become known so that it can be implemented. All of the ones I've read the information about seem to be movie only (not that there is anything but the movie and a menu on all of the 3D discs that I own), but I'm guessing that this is just to save space. Comparing the original with the remux, both the two 'large' M2TS files in STREAM have been reduced in size by approximately 50% (they are still 1080P), as has the main file in the SSIF sub-directory.

[Ch3vr0n]

I'm pretty sure we all would like to know (especially jdobbs) who this "someone" is, how he did it and see some proof of it.

[jdobbs]

I'm pretty sure we all would like to know (especially jdobbs) who this "someone" is, how he did it and see some proof of it. I followed that thread a little (if its the one I'm thinking of). It required use of some software that someone had "downloaded" (presumedly illegally). I will definitely stay away from that method.

[drmih]

I wasn't being cryptic, I have only seen the outcome. The remuxes seem to be the work of 3d@3d.com (probably just a posting name), whoever he is. The evidence is that they exist -the last two I've seen are Hugo and Immortals.

Directory of n:\bdmv\stream

23/02/2012 15:08 <DIR> .
23/02/2012 15:08 <DIR> ..
23/02/2012 14:57 15,523,080,192 00000.m2ts
23/02/2012 15:07 9,062,664,192 00001.m2ts
23/02/2012 15:08 <DIR> SSIF
2 File(s) 24,585,745,184 bytes

Directory of n:\bdmv\stream\SSIF

23/02/2012 15:08 <DIR> .
23/02/2012 15:08 <DIR> ..
23/02/2012 15:08 24,585,744,384 00000.ssif
1 File(s) 24,585,744,664 bytes