DXVA for H264 ok but no support for VC1

[ranpha]

Not if it makes things worse for a potential problem that may never occur.

Apparently in your world, stuttering when playing VFR videos doesn't happen. Is that the case?

Hello there, you are not the only one who has VFR videos.

[namaiki]

I said it may help if you have stuttering but should not be turned on if you don't experience stuttering.
You can turn it on for yourself, but you should not tell everyone to turn it on unless they have the same problems as your setup.

Read the above. It means that some people should have the option turned on and some people should have it turned off.

I am not saying that everyone should have it a certain way (apparently off) unlike you!

[ranpha]

Read the above. It means that some people should have the option turned on and some people have it turned off.

I am not saying that everyone should have it a certain way (apparently off) unlike you!

But you are implying that this setting should be turned off.

And BTW, define 'some people'. What situation should this setting turned off? When not having problems? Only turned it on when playing VFR videos? Then turning it off when playing non-VFRs?

That's sound like a lot of work for me. IMO, people should just turned it on so that when they unknowingly play VFR videos, they won't have stuttering videos at all. Set it up once and forget it? DO you really enjoy turning it on and off on per video basis?

Preventive is better than cure. Well, most of the time anyway.

[namaiki]

What situation should this setting turned off? When not having problems? Only turned it on when playing VFR videos? Then turning it off when playing non-VFRs?
The people with the issue keep the setting on. The people who do not experience such a thing keep the setting off.

[ranpha]

The people with the issue keep the setting on. The people who do not experience such a thing keep the setting off.

So you imply that only when you got problems, this thing should be turned on. You want people to have problems first before they are told to turn on that setting. Is that what you want to imply.

I believe that I have already said 'Prevention is better than cure'.

Hmmmmm........ I think I am right and you are wrong. Why you want people to have A VERY AVOIDABLE PROBLEM is beyond me.

[Grendel007]

I'm actually satistfied using my CPU for software decoding as I use MadVR.

I am totally over using DXVA, though I know that the Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder works a charm.


Is it a big difference in picture quality between EVR and madVR?

MadVR cannot enable DXVA, can it?

What CPU have you got?

Do you play films on 190x1080p with this CPU?

[namaiki]

Is it a big difference in picture quality between EVR and madVR?
I can see the difference when scaling, say 480p-> 1080p. MadVR has a multitude of different scaling algorithms that you can use.

MadVR cannot enable DXVA, can it?Only with CoreAVC, but I can't use that as my video card has 256MB of VRAM which does not seem to be enough for upscaling and video decoding at the same time.

What CPU have you got?P8600 - 2x 2.4GHz. It's a notebook computer.

Do you play films on 1920x1080p with this CPU?I don't recall having any problems in the past.


Well, DXVA is still good for when running on battery, but there's no point for me when I have ReClock processing audio using up to 30% of CPU time.

[namaiki]

ranpha: I think you should check if you still experience stuttering when you have VSync and Accurate VSync (within MPC-HC) + Aero - Enable Frame Time Correction.

I wouldn't be surprised if you experienced stuttering with MPC-HC's EVR Custom Presenter's VSync disabled.

With Aero alone, you won't get tearing, but if you disable MPC-HC's VSync you also disable it's frame handling.

[ranpha]

ranpha: I think you should check if you still experience stuttering when you have VSync and Accurate VSync (within MPC-HC) + Aero - Enable Frame Time Correction.

I wouldn't be surprised if you experienced stuttering with MPC-HC's EVR Custom Presenter's VSync disabled.

With Aero alone, you won't get tearing, but if you disable MPC-HC's VSync you also disable it's frame handling.

Enabling VSync + Accurate VSync with Aero enabled and Enable Frame Time Correction disabled did not solve the stuttering issue.

BTW, when VSync and/or Accurate VSync is enabled, MPC-HC EVR custom presenter will hand control of the vsync correction to the GPU device drivers. Only if Alternative Vsync enabled did MPC-HC will take over frame handling. Oh, and if Alternative Vsync is turned on and Enabled Frame Time Correction is off, stuttering is still there.

[namaiki]

What video decoder/filter are you using and which video renderer? (I guess EVR-CP since there's been no mention of EVR sync)

Also, what's your computer's GPU, or does this same stuttering occur on all of your PCs?

Thanks for the information, I only knew that I needed to enable aternative vsync when I have aero disabled in my setup.

[ranpha]

What video decoder/filter are you using and which video renderer? (I guess EVR-CP since there's been no mention of EVR sync)

Thanks for the information, I only knew that I needed to enable aternative vsync when I have aero disabled in my setup.

Internal decoders, all testing are done with it.

[namaiki]

I edited my post above but you were too fast. Do you have an SLI or Crossfire setup?

[ranpha]

I edited my post above but you were too fast. Do you have an SLI or Crossfire setup?

I don't have SLI setup (single GTX260).

[namaiki]

Curiouser and curiouser.. I suppose you've already done all you can for your setup. :|

BTW, when VSync and/or Accurate VSync is enabled, MPC-HC EVR custom presenter will hand control of the vsync correction to the GPU device drivers. Only if Alternative Vsync enabled did MPC-HC will take over frame handling. Oh, and if Alternative Vsync is turned on and Enabled Frame Time Correction is off, stuttering is still there.
Alternative VSync
Enabling alternative VSync will bypass the default VSync built into D3D. This can often get rid of tearing issues and is the preferred mode of VSync if your hardware/drivers are compatible with it.
D3D != GPU device drivers?

[ranpha]

Curiouser and curiouser.. I suppose you've already done all you can for your setup. :|



D3D != GPU device drivers?

With VSync/Accurate VSync, vsync correction will be done by GPU device drivers. Hardware accelerated I can say. After all, EVR custom presenter is a Direct3D device.

With Alternative VSync, MPC-HC will be the one that perform vsync correction. It works well too but with extra CPU cycles.

[namaiki]

I see, I read the darn thing backwards.. =_=

What refresh rate are you using when playing videos?

[ranpha]

60Hz. BTW, as ai said before earlier in this thread, I can differentiate between judder and stuttering.

[namaiki]

I can differentiate between judder and stuttering.

Honestly, I can't determine if you can or if you can't, but I'd be inclined to think otherwise anyways.

I use 60Hz as well and I have an nVidia card and the same filters and I don't seem to get stuttering where you do is what confuses me.

I guess I would leave it at that. No conclusion.


Also, I have nothing against 60Hz..

[ranpha]

Honestly, I can't determine if you can or if you can't, but I'd be inclined to think otherwise anyways.

I use 60Hz as well and I have an nVidia card and the same filters and I don't seem to get stuttering where you do is what confuses me.

I guess I would leave it at that. No conclusion.


Also, I have nothing against 60Hz..

I know how a judderless video playback looks like (I have a home theatre setup at home, no HTPC though), that's why I know judder when I see it. The stuttering is different than the usual judder and happened more frequently. For reference, playing those Blurays on DMP-BD30 Panasonic is silky smooth.

[namaiki]

Like I said, I have nothing more to add to that. The solution confuses me and the cause of the problem seems to be underterminable.

Off Topic: Would you know what Intel ClearVideo(TM) is or what it does? AFAIK it seems to be a FGT, but everything looks the same in my eyes.

[ranpha]

Like I said, I have nothing more to add to that. The solution confuses me and the cause of the problem seems to be underterminable.

Off Topic: Would you know what Intel ClearVideo(TM) is or what it does? AFAIK it seems to be a FGT, but everything looks the same in my eyes.

ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT_ClearVideo is basically the same as ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT. It used to be proprietary until Casimir666 asked Intel for documentation for that particular DXVA mode. That's why MPC-HC supported it.

[namaiki]

So, pretty much it does nothing?

The above I have heard of in brief, but does ClearVideo do anything to how the video looks?

edit: dw.. well, at least in screenshots, output appears to be identical.

[ranpha]

So, pretty much it does nothing?

The above I have heard of in brief, but does ClearVideo do anything to how the video looks?

edit: dw.. well, at least in screenshots, output appears to be identical.

Of course, all H.264 decoders give identical output.

[namaiki]

Okay sure, but the point is I'm trying to find out what ClearVideo does.

[ranpha]

Okay sure, but the point is I'm trying to find out what ClearVideo does.

Intel tack ClearVideo to signal that their H.264 bitstream decoding feature works differently compared to, let say, Microsoft's ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT method. The internal workings are different, but the output is the same.

[namaiki]

Thanks, I get what you mean but what does 'tack' mean?

[ranpha]

Thanks, I get what you mean but what does 'tack' mean?

Microsoft bitstreaming method: ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT
Intel semi-propriety bitstreaming method: ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT_ClearVideo.

Because Intel bitstreaming method are different than Microsoft's (although output is identical in theory), that's why Intel tack the phrase 'ClearVideo' to their bitstreaming mode so that DXVA-supporting software players like MPC-HC will not be confused.

Imagine the chaos that will happen if Intel named their bitstreaming mode as 'ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT' without the 'ClearVideo' moniker. Video players like MPC-HC will query the G45 GPU device driver, see that it supports 'ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT' and tried to use DXVA for playback, just to see it fail. That's why Intel tacks the ClearVideo moniker to the end of 'ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT' phrase so that such confusions doesn't arise.

[namaiki]

Right, thanks again. It's just that I've never seen the word 'tack' being used like that.

[Grendel007]

I read in the intel specifications of GMA 4500 HD that this card doesn't support deep colour over hdmi. http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/quick-reference-guide-to-intel-integrated-graphics/

This is only the latest Intel® Core™ Processors with Intel® HD Graphics that can support deep color over hdmi.

Does it mean that picture quality over hdmi is noticeably better on the new intel's graphic than on the previous 4500HD.

How can it be compared to Nvidia graphics like e.g GeForce 320M? Do Pure Video HD or Cuda technology (in Nvidia) help to obtain a really good picture quality?

[namaiki]

Does it mean that picture quality over hdmi is noticeably better on the new intel's graphic than on the previous 4500HD.
I don't know, but you probably couldn't tell the difference unless you have expensive equipment. Things like DVDs should look the same as far as I know.

Do Pure Video HD or Cuda technology (in Nvidia) help to obtain a really good picture quality?
No, it should look exactly the same by itself.

[Grendel007]

Has anyone tried using PowerDVD 10 for mkv movies??

The latest 10 version offers mkv support. What's more it can also play custom subtitles. The quality of picture in this software has always been quite good. Sounds very promising .

What do you think?

[namaiki]

Have they got a demo? You could probably try it out that way, unless the demo comes feature limited. :p

[edigee]

I've tested PowerDVD10(just a litlle test):
1. It plays external subtitles for mkv, mp4,m2ts, avi, files via internal splitter - VS filter(DirectVobSub). That means you cannot have DXVA in action when you play files with subtitles (external or embeded). H264 ,VC1, Mpeg2 files with no subs can be played with DXVA(ATI Avivo for me) with no problems.
2.The quality of mpeg2/DVD image using DXVA(no upscaling) seems pretty good. Better than ArcSoft TMT 3 can do.
3.With upscaling, the image quality is better in ArcSoft TMT 3 than in PowerDVD10. At least for me ,maybe because in PDVD 10 I can't use my GPU to peform upscaling(ATI Stream doesn't work here) so the upscaling is made via CPU. On TMT I can use GPU upscaling.
Edit: It seems I can't use H264/AVC decoder from PDVD 10 out of the box(same thing happens for PDVD9) , It is not listed in "external decoders" neither with MPC_MC or KMPlayer.
Caution: If you want to test Power DVD 10 , get rid off the HDPack 2.3 because that one comes with a PDVD installer too so it would cause a real mess.

[namaiki]

Any idea what resizer is used for upscaling of video in PDVD10?

[edigee]

Any idea what resizer is used for upscaling of video in PDVD10?

Sorry, don't know ,I've just uninstalled it. I crashes every 5 minutes. ArcSoft TMT 3 is way better for me.....

[Grendel007]

Sorry, don't know ,I've just uninstalled it. I crashes every 5 minutes. ArcSoft TMT 3 is way better for me.....

What CPU Have you got?
With what files does it crash?

I cannot test mkv files with PDVD 10. It says the format file is not supported.
I had HP pack 2.3 - I uninstalled it and I reisntalled PDVD 10 but to no effect.

[edigee]

What CPU Have you got?
With what files does it crash?

I cannot test mkv files with PDVD 10. It says the format file is not supported.
I had HP pack 2.3 - I uninstalled it and I reisntalled PDVD 10 but to no effect.

It crashed during playing DVD-s.... LOL.
I have Intel E1400, HD 3650, Vista 32 bit. SP1.

[Grendel007]

I've tested PowerDVD10(just a litlle test):
1. It plays external subtitles for mkv, mp4,m2ts, avi, files via internal splitter - VS filter(DirectVobSub). That means you cannot have DXVA in action when you play files with subtitles (external or embeded). H264 ,VC1, Mpeg2 files with no subs can be played with DXVA(ATI Avivo for me) with no problems.


I changed the subtitles format to srt and put it in the same folder as the movie but it doesn't load. The film has built in subs but I'd like to add external. Is it possible?

[edigee]

I changed the subtitles format to srt and put it in the same folder as the movie but it doesn't load. The film has built in subs but I'd like to add external. Is it possible?

If it has exactly the same name as the movie file it should be load. Rightclick on PDVD window ,there's something like "primary" and "secundary" subtitle. It worked for me ,but as i told ,breaking DXVA ...and the font was a bit weird. But the subtitle file has to be named exactly the same as the movie: ex:
The.Lord.Of.TheRings:The.2.Towers.2002.mkv
The.Lord.Of.TheRings:The.2.Towers.2002.srt
or
The.Lord.Of.TheRings:The.2.Towers.2002.sub

Edit. Some players allows you to load any subs from the movie's folder no matter the name is different but I guess PDVD doesn't allow that.
Edit 2: Be sure you have VSFilter(DirectVobSub) installed.

[Grendel007]

Can anyone express one's opinion about possibly good picture quality obtained by any player, codecs.
Where to obtain good picture quality of 1080p mkv movies (with or without DXVA)

How would you grade:

MPC HC with MadVR

CoreAVC Video Decoder

CUDA accelaration

Arcsoft decoders

any other suggestions....

[namaiki]

MadVR
....
Great scaling options

CoreAVC Video Decoder
....
The same as any other decoder.

CUDA accelaration
....
The same as any other decoder.
Off-loading to GPU. Only really useful if your CPU isn't powerful enough.

Arcsoft decoders
.....
Should be the same as any other decoder.

All AVC decoders should produce identical video.

[Khaaan!]

I just use DivX 8's AVC decoders now with MPC-HC (none of the MPC filters are enabled, only AVI source filter so MJPEG videos play), more compatible with the various h264 videos from camcorders as well as not requiring any configuration routines,just tick DXVA if required and away you go.

[namaiki]

I just use DivX 8's AVC decoders now with MPC-HC (none of the MPC filters are enabled, only AVI source filter so MJPEG videos play), more compatible with the various h264 videos from camcorders as well as not requiring any configuration routines,just tick DXVA if required and away you go.

Just for anyone's information, if you want DivX 8 H.264 filter to do DXVA, after ticking DXVA in Divx settings, make sure that you are using MPC-HC's internal subtitle renderer and not VSFilter.

[Khaaan!]

I have the internal subtitle rendering enabled and all subs work (both embedded with mkv files and srt/idx combos accompanying AVI files) - I use Haali media splitter to quickly navigate subs/audio tracks and streams etc as in MPC-HC it's an extra menu away (navigate right click menu) where as in Haali it's a simple right click of the system tray.

DXVA works for me perfectly in all h264 based videos btw, including Apple Trailer site .mov downloads \m/ (this worked using DXVA only after I reinstalled QT Lite). It would work before but only when I changed the file extension to .hdmov but doing this meant I lost the Explorer thumbnails and video info in Windows 7 so I prefer to keep such files as .mov.

[Grendel007]

I cannot apply madVR output.

I installed it but it is greyed out. The graphic GPU is GT 325 M.

What is wrong?

[Khaaan!]

Installed what, divx 8? what gfx driver ?

[namaiki]

Make sure that you do not delete or move the MadVR folder, and make sure that you are using a 32-bit MPC-HC.

I've got a GeForce 9600M GT, so I think you should be fine.

[Grendel007]

Make sure that you do not delete or move the MadVR folder, and make sure that you are using a 32-bit MPC-HC.

I've got a GeForce 9600M GT, so I think you should be fine.

Where should this folder be placed? I istalled from desktop and left it there.

[namaiki]

Probably doesn't matter where. I have mine in my downloads folder. :p

[Grendel007]

Correct me if I am wrong BUT madVR output doesn't support external subtitles.

Am I right?