DXVA for H264 ok but no support for VC1

[rumpumpel1]

I have an Acer notebook model Aspire 1810TZ. It
has chipset grahics (Mobile Intel 4 Series Express)
and an Intel U4100 CPU with 2 x 1.3 GHz and it runs
Windows7 X64.
My goal is to watch HD-movies in 1080p which are
H264 or VC1 coded (Blu-Ray rips).
After doing some experiments with vlc, Nero8, WMP12
I ended up using MPC Home Cinema. Almost everything
works so far, even the PGS subtitles.
After following the instructions on the MPC Help Page
(newest driver, newest DirectX, etc) I can play all
H264 movies (AC3 and DTS) flawlessly using DXVA at
about 20% - 30% CPU load.
The problem are VC-1 movies. Thy do not use DXVA and
are constantly dropping frames. According to the
DXVAChecker there is support for VC1_MoComp and
VC1_IDCT but not for VC1_VLD.
So my question is: why there is no support for
VC1_VLD and what can I do to utilize DXVA for VC1 ?

[roozhou]

Try PotPlayer or system's WMV decoder. They support MoComp and idct level acceleration for VC1 while MPC-HC only supports bitstream DXVA. However the bitstream decoding and idct phase will be done by CPU w/o multi-threading. You may still end up with frame dropping since your CPU is only 1.3GHz.

My laptop is 2x1.8G AMD K8 + NV 6150 Go which supports MoComp level acceleration for VC1/WMV9. If the bitrate goes above 30Mbps it begins to drop frames.

[rumpumpel1]

Try PotPlayer ......

strange player, at least with the trial version I couldn't manage to play any video file.

[roozhou]

strange player, at least with the trial version I couldn't manage to play any video file.
There is no "trial version" because PotPlayer is free.

[edigee]

There is no "trial version" because PotPlayer is free.

Try to add external filters to MPC-HC which can decode VC1 content in DXVA mode. Cyberlink H264 and VC1 PDVD8 or Cyberlink "allinone" decoder PDVD9 are some examples. The 2nd one you can get it fom the latest HDPack 2.2 or 2.3. (note: If you already have a version of Power DVD running on your computer use HD Pack 2.2 -not 2.3!)
http://www.dvbsupport.net/download/index.php?act=view&id=162
http://www.skystar.org/comment.php?dlid=4268
Edit: from HD Pack 2.2 or 2.3 you can get only the specific decoder you're interested ,don't tick the other stuff from there.

[namaiki]

Try the Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder. I'm not sure if it supports VC-1, though I find it is good for H.264 DXVA on the Intel Graphics Processors.

[rumpumpel1]

thanks for all the answers.
As I learned yesterday, my chipset GM45 does not support Varibale Length Decode for VC-1. See here:
http://imouto.my/watching-h264-videos-using-dxva/

[Grendel007]

As I learned yesterday, my chipset GM45 does not support Varibale Length Decode for VC-1. See here:
http://imouto.my/watching-h264-videos-using-dxva/

This is not true.
I have been experiencing similar problem. Look at this chart:
http://www.intel.com/technology/graphics/gma.htm?iid=tech_graphics+gma
there’s no doubt that it supports.

I have been desperately trying to play 1080p mkv movie encoded in VC-1 in MPC HC but the picture stutters.
On MPC there is no info of “DXVA playing” (it is lost) so maybe it is the reason.

When I play 1080p mkv movies encoded x264 with DXVA no problems with them.

How can I offload the processor or/and enable DXVA while playing mkv in MPC HC??
I have tried Coreavc professional codec but to no effect.(While playing the processor usage is about 75-85%)

I have a notebook with Dual Core 2.1 GHz (T4300) and Intel 4500 HD (integrated) with 2 GB RAM Vista 32 Business

I have tried cyberlink codecs (x264 and Vc-1) But during playing in filters I can only see cyberlink x264, there is no vc-1 cyberlink filter.
The problem may be in Intel’s drivers.

If I cannot enable dxva, How can I offload the processor?What codecs or/and players do you recommend?

P.S. @rumpumpel1 What directx version and what intel driver have you got?
Can you play this sample smoothly http://www.bigandfree.com/12127741/Planet_Earth_From_Pole_to_Pole_1080p_sample.mkv.html

I will greatly appreciate any help

[Grendel007]

@rumpumpel1
I have just found a player that possilbly can be a remedy to all our problems.

It is called Splash player . Now there is only one version available Splash lite. It is seems to resolve DXVA related problems for owners of Intel integrated HD cards.

Before this player I wasn’t able to enable GPU (DXVA) support while playing one mkv file on MPC HC now with Splash DXVA is visible!!!

Could please test this file on MPC HC and later on Splash and tell me hot it plays

http://www.bigandfree.com/12127741/Planet_Earth_From_Pole_to_Pole_1080p_sample.mkv.html


I look forward to your reply

[ranpha]

@rumpumpel1
I have just found a player that possilbly can be a remedy to all our problems.

It is called Splash player . Now there is only one version available Splash lite. It is seems to resolve DXVA related problems for owners of Intel integrated HD cards.

Before this player I wasn’t able to enable GPU (DXVA) support while playing one mkv file on MPC HC now with Splash DXVA is visible!!!

Could please test this file on MPC HC and later on Splash and tell me hot it plays

http://www.bigandfree.com/12127741/Planet_Earth_From_Pole_to_Pole_1080p_sample.mkv.html


I look forward to your reply

That file plays well on a G45 laptop when I tested it some time back. In fact, all the videos I link at http://wp.me/PrgSo-2n should play well if the reference frame limitation is ignored. Of course, not all videos will play smoothly.

[rumpumpel1]

This is not true.
I have been experiencing similar problem. Look at this chart:
http://www.intel.com/technology/graphics/gma.htm?iid=tech_graphics+gma
there’s no doubt that it supports.
....

well Intel is not vey specific. The document says: full support for VC-1, but it does not specify, what full support means.
The G45 chipset supports the following profiles:
ModeH264_VLD
ModeH264_MoComp
ModeH264_IDCT
ModeVC1_MoComp
ModeVC1_IDC
So the profile ModeVC1_VLD is missing and MPC currently only supports the VLD profile for DXVA. So with this chipset and with MPC there is no DXVA support for VC-1. According to the link above the same is true for the Clarkdale/Arrandale chipset.
The table given here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA is wrong. It seems to reflect what Intel planned to do and here we see what Intel managed to do.
Conclusion: watching HD-videos with a notebook having a small CPU can be done using NVidia or ATI graphics chips, but avoid Intel GPUs.

[rumpumpel1]

@rumpumpel1
I have just found a player that possilbly can be a remedy to all our problems.

It is called Splash player . Now there is only one version available Splash lite. It is seems to resolve DXVA related problems for owners of Intel integrated HD cards.

Before this player I wasn’t able to enable GPU (DXVA) support while playing one mkv file on MPC HC now with Splash DXVA is visible!!!

Could please test this file on MPC HC and later on Splash and tell me hot it plays

http://www.bigandfree.com/12127741/Planet_Earth_From_Pole_to_Pole_1080p_sample.mkv.html


I look forward to your reply



I tried to install this splash player. It says "Installing C++ runtime libraries" and then my notebook freezes.

[roozhou]

@rumpumpel1
Why don't you use MS's built-in WMVideo Decoder DMO for VC1 decoing? Just turn off MPC-HC's internal VC1 decoder(both DXVA and software) and it will work.
I also tested ArcSoft's partial acceleration on nVidia Card. It works but with lots of artifact.

And remember NONE of libavcodec based decoder will work on your card. This includes Splash player.

[rumpumpel1]

Try to add external filters to MPC-HC which can decode VC1 content in DXVA mode. Cyberlink H264 and VC1 PDVD8 or Cyberlink "allinone" decoder PDVD9 are some examples. The 2nd one you can get it fom the latest HDPack 2.2 or 2.3. (note: If you already have a version of Power DVD running on your computer use HD Pack 2.2 -not 2.3!)
http://www.dvbsupport.net/download/index.php?act=view&id=162
http://www.skystar.org/comment.php?dlid=4268
Edit: from HD Pack 2.2 or 2.3 you can get only the specific decoder you're interested ,don't tick the other stuff from there.

I installed PowerDVD9. On its start page it shows what DXVA profiles it found. It shows the same list as the DXVA Checker. An entry for VC1_VLD is missing. Consequently it plays a VC-1 HD-movie with the same CPU load as MPC (without DXVA support).
I have an Intel CPU U4100 2 x 1.3 GHz.
For VC-1 movies it runs at about 60%-80% load.
Scenes with high band-width are dropping frames and sometimes it starts stuttering.
AVC movies are running at 10% - 20% CPU load and they play smoothly.

[rumpumpel1]

@rumpumpel1
Why don't you use MS's built-in WMVideo Decoder DMO for VC1 decoing? Just turn off MPC-HC's internal VC1 decoder(both DXVA and software) and it will work.
I also tested ArcSoft's partial acceleration on nVidia Card. It works but with lots of artifact.

And remember NONE of libavcodec based decoder will work on your card. This includes Splash player.

that's my default configuration. But also the Microsoft codec can not support DXVA if the chipset/driver dos not support it.

[Grendel007]

I tried to install this splash player. It says "Installing C++ runtime libraries" and then my notebook freezes.

The player doesn't install. I have a version without installation. Well, it "installs" like MPC HC zip version

[rumpumpel1]

The player doesn't install. I have a version without installation. Well, it "installs" like MPC HC zip version

I downloaded the file for a second time and now I was able to install it. Probably the first time the file was broken. Upon startup a window pops up, which says: video hardware acceleration available. Very promising. But when playing my test-videos it turned out, that video acceleration is not used.
For VC-1 the CPU load was 60% - 70% as with MPC. For AVC it was even worse: 100% CPU and a framerate of 18fps. So no acceleration at all. Interesting also that during playback you can open an information window which gives you various technical info about the video, but no info about DXVA.
Hmm, may be with some future version ....

[namaiki]

Not that I like Splash Player, but did you enable hardware acceleration in the options?

[rumpumpel1]

Not that I like Splash Player, but did you enable hardware acceleration in the options?

Good point! So I checked this option and now AVC is much better: 10% - 20% CPU load as with MPC. But VC-1 still does not show any acceleration. So splash player shows the same result as MPC.
I'm pretty sure, that the chipset/driver has no support for the VC1_VDL profile. Maybe with a future driver version.

[roozhou]

Good point! So I checked this option and now AVC is much better: 10% - 20% CPU load as with MPC. But VC-1 still does not show any acceleration. So splash player shows the same result as MPC.
I'm pretty sure, that the chipset/driver has no support for the VC1_VDL profile. Maybe with a future driver version.
As I stated in the second post, you need a decoder/player that supports partial acceleration on VC1. But you wasted so much time testing on players and decoders supporting only vld acceleration. How can you enable DXVA using these decoders on a chip that does not have vld decoding? Future driver won't help because there is no chance that a chip has both partial and bitstream level acceleration.

You have the following choice:
1) MS WMVideo Decoder DMO (seems it fails)
2) PotPlayer's internal DXVA decoder.
3) ArcSoft's VC1 decoder

And again do not waste time testing any libavcodec based decoders/players. They will never work.

[Grendel007]

You have the following choice:
3) ArcSoft's VC1 decoder


I read somewhere that ArcSoft's TMT doesn't support mkv files any more. Is it true?

[namaiki]

Just use Haali Media Splitter or other.

[rumpumpel1]

As I stated in the second post, you need a decoder/player that supports partial acceleration on VC1. But you wasted so much time testing on players and decoders supporting only vld acceleration. How can you enable DXVA using these decoders on a chip that does not have vld decoding? Future driver won't help because there is no chance that a chip has both partial and bitstream level acceleration.

You have the following choice:
1) MS WMVideo Decoder DMO (seems it fails)
2) PotPlayer's internal DXVA decoder.
3) ArcSoft's VC1 decoder

And again do not waste time testing any libavcodec based decoders/players. They will never work.



I tested Pot Player. I always wanted to learn korean.
I configured to use always DXVA, to use VLD for AVC and IDCT for VC-1.
Playing an AVC-video there seems to be no acceleration at all, because the CPU load goes up to 90%, but at least it plays the video.

Playing an VC-1 video seems to use DXVA because the CPU load drops to 40% but unfortunately the screen remains black ... The same holds for MoComp.

Unless I've overseen one the numerous options, it's unusable. It says it is beta and so it is.

Next I'll try the arcsoft codec.

[rumpumpel1]

the best results I've ever seen so far is MediaTheatre from Arcsoft. Absolut smooth video for AVC and VC1 by <10% CPU load. But of course this costs $$.

[Grendel007]

the best results I've ever seen so far is MediaTheatre from Arcsoft. Absolut smooth video for AVC and VC1 by <10% CPU load. But of course this costs $$.

What player, codec are you refering to?

I read on arcsoft's forum that some problems appeared with compatibility of mkv files.

[edigee]

I read somewhere that ArcSoft's TMT doesn't support mkv files any more. Is it true?

With the latest patch(170) the mkv support is back :with the wellknown limitations-no subtitles for mkv files ,no support for multi audio on mkv files .

[rumpumpel1]

does anyone know, how the arcsoft codec can be used for MPC ?

[namaiki]

If you can find the name of the filter, you can add and set it as preferred under options-> external filters.

[edigee]

does anyone know, how the arcsoft codec can be used for MPC ?
You can't use the Arcsoft decoder out of the box from any Arcsoft player (TMT or TMT Extreme)!
You can only use it from Hd Pack 2.3 and 2.2:
http://www.dvbsupport.net/download/i...ct=view&id=162
http://www.skystar.org/comment.php?dlid=4268

You can add Arcsoft decoder from those ones .
Caution:The Arcsoft decoder comes with the Arcoft installer both in HD Pack 2.3 and 2.2 .If you already have any version of ArcSoft Total Media Theatre or Total media Extreme installed on your pc DON"T USE the HD pack because that 2nd Arcsoft installed would mess up the Arcsoft player already installed. If you don't have any Arcsoft player , you can use HD pack with no problems.

[rumpumpel1]

You can't use the Arcsoft decoder out of the box from any Arcsoft player (TMT or TMT Extreme)!
You can only use it from Hd Pack 2.3 and 2.2:
http://www.dvbsupport.net/download/i...ct=view&id=162
http://www.skystar.org/comment.php?dlid=4268

You can add Arcsoft decoder from those ones .
Caution:The Arcsoft decoder comes with the Arcoft installer both in HD Pack 2.3 and 2.2 .If you already have any version of ArcSoft Total Media Theatre or Total media Extreme installed on your pc DON"T USE the HD pack because that 2nd Arcsoft installed would mess up the Arcsoft player already installed. If you don't have any Arcsoft player , you can use HD pack with no problems.


I removed my Total Media Theatre installation before I installed HD Pack 2.3. It seems to do all necessary configuration in MPC-HC. But again I end up with playing a VC-1 coded video with 90% CPU load. Did I miss something ?

[rumpumpel1]

Finally I managed to reach my initial goal: having MPC Home Cinema playing all HD videos smoothly without stuttering on my Acer Timeline (Intel GPU: GMA 4500MHD) including all features like multiple audio and PGS-subtitle tracks (Blu-Ray).

Here is a short guide:
- install MPC-HomeCinema.1.3.1249.0.x86.exe
- install HDPack2.3.EXE out of the many codecs choose
only the Arcsoft video codec and nothing else
- the installation routine of the HD Pack configures the
MPC. Some of these configurations you have to revert.
Make sure you have set the following configuration options:
Options -> Output -> EVR Custom
Render Settings -> Presentation -> Enable Frame Time Correction
Render Settings -> VSync all off
External Filters -> ArcSoft Video Decoder preferred, you can safely remove all entries marked as not registered
External Filters -> WMV Video Decoder DMO blocked
Internal Filters all on except both H264 and VC-1

Keep in mind that for HD videos the selection of the audio track and the subtitle track is done via the context menu -> Filter -> last entry. It might take up to 30s until all subtitles show up.

The CPU load on my Timeline 1810TZ (U4100 2 x 1.3 GHz) when playing HD videos is about 20% and MPC always indicates that DXVA is used.

2010/04/07
Oh well, this HDPack2.3 is not what I expected: it stops working after 20 days. Re-installation helps (at least once).

2010/06/20
with HDPack2.4 this problem seems not to exist anymore.

[namaiki]

Render Settings -> VSync all off

^ You probably don't want to do that.

Aero on -> default renderer settings
Aero off -> optimal renderer settings

though you will have to enable frame time correction again.

[edigee]

Glad you have finally done it! But as namaiki says VSync all off means not a very smooth video playback. Plus , I don't think the VSync settings can harm in any way the DXVA. You also might try the EVR -Sync -it behaves the same way as EVR CP.

[rumpumpel1]

Render Settings -> VSync all off

^ You probably don't want to do that.

Aero on -> default renderer settings
Aero off -> optimal renderer settings

though you will have to enable frame time correction again.

I started with the default configuration but I noticed, that my test-video for VC-1 was totally out of sync. It was in sync again after I switched off all VSync options. Also the other test-videos were not affected by this.
I'll test it again tonight.

[Grendel007]

@rumpumpel1

Congratulations on your success with DXVA.

Could you please try and test this file wthether it plays smoothly and most importantly if it is with DXVA.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/530/mirrors.php

Please write the reply.

I have been following your posts. I have given up but maybe too early.

[rumpumpel1]

@rumpumpel1

Congratulations on your success with DXVA.

Could you please try and test this file wthether it plays smoothly and most importantly if it is with DXVA.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/530/mirrors.php

Please write the reply.

I have been following your posts. I have given up but maybe too early.



yes, it plays smoothley and MPC shows that DXVA is used.
CPU load is about 20%.

[Grendel007]

@rumpumpel1

I am about to achive your success!!!

I managed to enable DXVAsupport. However when I connect the notebook to the tv and the film is played on 1092x1080 at60Hz.

There are some very slight but (noticable splits of the picture)

The CPU load is VERY low 10-20% but...

What Can I do to eliminate these splits. There should be something about the settings. What else can change to eliminate this?

Help me! I am so close...

[namaiki]

First:
Aero on -> default renderer settings
Aero off -> optimal renderer settings


If no effect, try use the EVR renderer(not EVR-Custom) or Overlay.

[Grendel007]

Sorry to bother and ask you and excuse me my lamer's question.

What are default render settings and what are optimal renderer settings?

I am experimenting with the picture now and it seems that I am really really close.

However, UNLIKE you wrote earlier all the VSync all are ON at the moment on my MPC HC.

It seems to be working but I need some more tests. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

[namaiki]

They can both be found under: View-> Renderer Settings-> Reset.

The difference is that optimal renderer settings will disable aero if not already disabled and it will enable alternate vsync. vsync and accurate vsync are also enabled for both.

None of these options apply to 'EVR,' nor to 'Overlay.'

[Grendel007]

Strangely enough.
Everything seems to be perfect but...
I wanted to play this known sample
http://www.bigandfree.com/12127741/Planet_Earth_From_Pole_to_Pole_1080p_sample.mkv.html

but on the settings with arcsoft decoder

the picture stops there is info about dxva but the clip cannot be played. Only the audio is heard.

Can you help me with this?
What's the matter?

@rumpumpel1

Can you try this?

P.S
I eventually played this clip but I had to disable arcsoft and made a change with registry. Is this clip really so complicated to be played. Why arcsoft was't able to play it in dxva???

[Grendel007]

@rumpumpel1

Can you play this clip of Planet Earth with the arcsoft decoder?

[Grendel007]

I am very grateful for all the support I have received from all the users on this thread.

Particularly I would like to thank: rumpumpel1, namaiki, edigee

You wouldn’t believe but I was going to give back my recently bought (brand new notebook) because of the unresolved issue connected with Intel incompatibility.

You have been very helpful. THANK YOU VERY MUCH

[Grendel007]

I am still testing different mkv movies with the settings you recommend.

However, I encountered some problems with one file.

It is encoded in h264.

I tried to play in MPC HC with only arcosoft decoders and the settings above but...The picture stuttered.

CPU load was OK, DXVA enabled but the movie couldn't be played smoothly.

What makes things strange I blocked arcsoft decoders and played this film with enabled internal x264 decoders in MPC HC and it was almost flawless(there were just a few artifacts).

What's wrong with arcsoft x264 decoders?

What can I do about the settings of MPC HC and arcsoft decoder to play this film (x264) without stuttering.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[namaiki]

For stuttering, you can try enable or disable 'Frame Time Correction' under 'View-> Renderer Settings-> Presentation'.

[Grendel007]

Thank YOU namaiki for your advice.

Unfortunately, my problem is a bit complicated.

On the notebook screen and its resolution 1280x 800 the picture seems flawless.

However, when I connect my notebook to the tv and the output resolution is changed to the native of the tv 1920x1080 on the same settings of the MPC HC there appear either stuttering or tearing which so far I haven't been able to overcome.

What is it about???
Is it connected with different refresh rates? What refresh rate should on 1080p output from notebook from the card?

I will be very grateful for any answer.

[namaiki]

What's the graphics card, operating system, and is Aero enabled or disabled? Generally if you are using Vista/7 and your GFX is like worse than current gen integrated, you could try the EVR video renderer (does not apply if you need subtitles).

[Grendel007]

This is Intel 4500 HD and the system is win 7 pro 64 bit.

I tried both with enabled and disabled aero.
I play with soft external subs.

[namaiki]

The stuttering might go away if you disable subtitle animation or you don't enable subtitle animation (In MPC-HC: View-> Options-> Subtitles)

if aero is disabled and there is tearing, then make sure Vsync, accurate vsync, and alt vsync are all enabled under 'View-> Renderer Settings-> Vsync'

[edigee]

Thank YOU namaiki for your advice.

Unfortunately, my problem is a bit complicated.

On the notebook screen and its resolution 1280x 800 the picture seems flawless.

However, when I connect my notebook to the tv and the output resolution is changed to the native of the tv 1920x1080 on the same settings of the MPC HC there appear either stuttering or tearing which so far I haven't been able to overcome.

What is it about???
Is it connected with different refresh rates? What refresh rate should on 1080p output from notebook from the card?

I will be very grateful for any answer.

Normaly the display refresh rate should be a multiple of the framerate of the video material ,to avoid such behavior. For example, when you're playing a 23.976 fps video the display refresh rate should be 23.976 ,23.976x2, 23.976x3Hz.....Of course this is not possible ,but you can set the refresh rate at values as closer as possible( 24Hz, 50Hz, 75Hz). To play a 23.976fps movie on a 60Hz display it would be more tricky: the result is the behaviur you're talking about. Basicly the player tries to syncronize the video with the display-the result is:droping some frames ,stuttering ,not a smooth movement. That's why MPC-HC has the renderer Sync options, to minimize those issues . See also Al-Jaar builds(GothSync tryouts)-same ideea behind those ones. The perfect (well, almost)combination is to use those Sync option in MPC-HC together with Reclock (for a good audio sync too).
I'm sure there are guys here that knows 1000 more than me about sync problems, their advice would be more useful.

[Grendel007]

The stuttering might go away if you disable subtitle animation or you don't enable subtitle animation (In MPC-HC: View-> Options-> Subtitles)

if aero is disabled and there is tearing, then make sure Vsync, accurate vsync, and alt vsync are all enabled under 'View-> Renderer Settings-> Vsync'

I have been testing your recommended settings.

I will let you know if it is OK

[Grendel007]

The stuttering might go away if you disable subtitle animation or you don't enable subtitle animation (In MPC-HC: View-> Options-> Subtitles)

if aero is disabled and there is tearing, then make sure Vsync, accurate vsync, and alt vsync are all enabled under 'View-> Renderer Settings-> Vsync'


What the hell...

I checked the above settings.

On the notebook everything seems oK but the moment I connect to the tv set and the mkv is played on 1920x1080p the slight stuttering appears. DXVA is always enabled CPU load is 30%
Maybe my RAM memory has something to do with it?

I have Intel 4500 HD integrated and win 7 64 prof and 2GB RAM.

Please help me.

[adam777]

Grendel007, I think I've seen a similar problem with another 4500HD based notebook.
All good while running on notebook but takes a bit of a hit when connecting to TV.
My guess? it has something to do with the connection/dual display and not the player itself.

[edigee]

What the hell...

I checked the above settings.

On the notebook everything seems oK but the moment I connect to the tv set and the mkv is played on 1920x1080p the slight stuttering appears. DXVA is always enabled CPU load is 30%
Maybe my RAM memory has something to do with it?

I have Intel 4500 HD integrated and win 7 64 prof and 2GB RAM.

Please help me.

Is your video card capable to run two displays at maximum resolutions? See Intel GM45 specifications, and search for feedbacks of the way your card handles with 2 displays.
Many people use 2 different cards for running two displays at high resolutions.

[littleD]

Maybe my RAM memory has something to do with it?

Go to BIOS and set 258 MB Total Video memory. The existing memory on intel chip + shared memory (RAM) should be 256MB. Otherwise it may shutter.

[Grendel007]

Thank You for all your comments.

However the situation looks like this.

MPC HC plays smoothly mkv files encoded in VC-1 on the tv set 1080p by means of Arcsoft filters.

BUT mkv files h264 are played with some problems on the tv and sometimes even on the notebook. Played on internal H264 filters of MPC HC. (On Arcsoft filters there are major stutterings)

Example: the film plays smoothly but in some scenes when there is a camera movement from down to upwards (or sometimes from one side to the other) there are slight stutterings. These are the ONLY cases when these stutterings happen.


The stuttering IS reduced but NOT eliminated when "disable animation subtitle" is ticked. CPU load is about 30%, DXVA enabled.

P.S. @ littleD Thanks for advice but there is no such option in BIOS

I am looking forward to any help

[ranpha]

Grendel007, do you set your TV to 24Hz? If yes, set it to 60Hz/100Hz/120Hz. Anything but 24Hz.

[Grendel007]

Grendel007, do you set your TV to 24Hz? If yes, set it to 60Hz/100Hz/120Hz. Anything but 24Hz.

It is set to 100MHz.

[namaiki]

Try 60Hz or 120Hz, because 100Hz is a weird missmatch. Also, try go through the content itself frame by frame to make sure it is not just like that.

[ranpha]

It is set to 100MHz.

If your TV has that 'MotionFlow/TruMotion/Auto MotionPlus' frame interpolation thingy turned on, disable it.

[Grendel007]

I am puzzled.

I have tried BS Player Pro and... No stuttering at those few scenes.

What the hell..? Why MPC HC slightly stutters while at the same scenes (and without DXVA) BS Player Pro plays smoothly?

What's wrong with MPC HC?

P.S.
Can You tell me what frequency of dual core pentium can "guarantee" smooth playback of any mkv film without DXVA ?

[namaiki]

Maybe try EVR renderer in MPC-HC. Does BS Pro support subtitles?

frequency [/B]of dual core pentium can "guarantee" smooth playback of any mkv film without DXVA ?
You mean of any reasonably h.264 encoded file?

[Grendel007]

Maybe try EVR renderer in MPC-HC.
I cannot even think of any other setting. EVR is supposed to give optimal picture quality, isn't it??

Does BS Pro support subtitles?


Yes. The only problem is the lack of DXVA.

You mean of any reasonably h.264 encoded file?

What CPU frequency can handle most (if not all) mkv files both h264 and VC-1 and the rest.

[edigee]

What CPU frequency can handle most (if not all) mkv files both h264 and VC-1 and the rest.

Well ,If you're looking on comercial players requirements it says :
For BD playback:
PowerDVD 10: Min.-Pentium 4 541 (3.2 GHz), Athlon 64 X2 3800+ or above .
ArcSoft ToatMedia Theatre:
Intel
Minimum -
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo CPU E4400 2.00GHz
Intel® Core™ Duo T2600 2.16G
Recommended -
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6400 2.13GHz
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7400 2.16GHz
AMD
Minimum - AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 4600+ 2.4GHz
Recommended - AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 5600+ 2.8GHZ

Assuming these frequency values are given for a decent BD playback from a BD drive and without hardware acceleration you can be sure you'll be able to play in software mode any H264 ,VC1 smoothly without DXVA ,with any frequency spec. higher than these ones. DivX and Mpeg 2 HD files don't take too many resources of the CPU.
note: Power DVD req. seem a little too low(maybe they consider hardware acceleration playback)

Of course if you're thinking on building a powerful HTPC ,with no problems in playing any video (and audio) material you should stick to more powerful processor(a"Q" or "i" Intel).

If you don't want to use a "monster" processor you should use a videocard that can handle with all the video material in DXVA mode. Such a card is the NVIDIA GT220(a fanless edition from MSI just emerged) that can deal with DXVA H264 L@5.1 and 16 ref.frames ,DXVA for VC1, Mpeg2 dual stream DXVA decoding , NVIDIA CUDA techology and sound over HDMI(like on ATI HD4xxx series).

[Grendel007]

Minimum -
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo CPU E4400 2.00GHz
Intel® Core™ Duo T2600 2.16G
Recommended -
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6400 2.13GHz
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7400 2.16GHz

Assuming these frequency values are given for a decent BD playback from a BD drive and without hardware acceleration you can be sure you'll be able to play in software mode any H264 ,VC1 smoothly without DXVA ,with any frequency spec. higher than these ones.


I have Pentium Dual Core T4300 @2.1GHz. Is it enough?

Are you sure that mkv files are not more demanding than regular BD.

[namaiki]

They can be more demanding than standard BD.

[Grendel007]

They can be more demanding than standard BD.

thefore my question about CPU.

Does anyone know what CPU frequency is minumum?

[namaiki]

There is no limit.

Reasonably, my C2D 2.4GHZ CPU can play some 1080p at 40-70% core usage.

[Grendel007]

There is no limit.

Reasonably, my C2D 2.4GHZ CPU can play some 1080p at 40-70% core usage.

Is my T4300 Pentium dual core @2,1 GHz enough.

On the benchmark list it is:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Pentium+Dual-Core+T4300+%40+2.10GHz

But I am not sure wthether its score is relevant in reference to HD playback. The score is probably average of different tests.

[namaiki]

I really don't know. Try play some videos without DXVA.

[edigee]

Modern BD releases are now often encoded in either H264/MPEG-4 AVC or VC-1, So there should be no big difference between BD and the H264 and VC1 material you're talking about. But as far as I know the higher is the bitrate the more demandig the file is. BD has a bitrate of 36 Mbit/s and the regular H264 , VC1 files (BD rips) are up to 10Mbit/s bitrate so I think BD -s are more demanding.

[namaiki]

How about complexity in say, x264 encodes vs BD's AVC.

[edigee]

How about complexity in say, x264 encodes vs BD's AVC.

Same thing. X264 is the open source software library for H264 encoding
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X264
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC

[namaiki]

I mean like in levels and profiles for encoding.

[edigee]

I mean like in levels and profiles for encoding.

Blue Ray-s are using L@4.1 AVC high profile. Videos with L@5.1 profile and a higher number of ref. frames could be demanding in terms of DXVA compatibility but in software mode they act the same as L@4.1 videos.

[namaiki]

Blue Ray-s are using L@4.1 AVC high profile. Videos with L@5.1 profile and a higher number of ref. frames could be demanding in terms of DXVA compatibility but in software mode they act the same as L@4.1 videos.

So, they would not be more demanding to decode? Obviously for a software decoder, all videos of that encoding should be able to be played except for where there are unsupported features. Talking about CPU usage, not compatibility.

[Khaaan!]

I've switched to using the latest DivX 8 decoder as it now supports DXVA and has none of the juddering I've noticed with the built in MPC decoder (using DXVA). Also some camcorder HD videos were not playable using MPC's decoders using DXVA but this is all great now.

I suggest people check it out. Picture quality is excellent as well.

[namaiki]

Picture quality is excellent as well.

Picture quality should be identical.

Works on my nVidia card, but not on my Intel card where I actually need DXVA.

[Khaaan!]

Picture quality should be identical.

Works on my nVidia card, but not on my Intel card where I actually need DXVA.

By excellent I did not mean to say that the MPC decoder was worse for PQ, both (and all other players/decoders I have tried inc FFDShow's DXVA option) are excellent :)

I've not set the DivX 8 decoder as the preferred External Filter in MPC as it's working great, seems the DivX team have also finalised the MKV tech preview in version 8 as it installs by default (I'm on Win7 x64).

Nice.

[namaiki]

Both are compliant?

[Khaaan!]

Compliant?

[edigee]

@namaiki
Did you have a look here?
http://imouto.my/watching-h264-videos-using-dxva/
This blog is run by one of the users here (ranpha). He made a lot of DXVA tests ,including Intel GM45 graphic chipset ,it might be helpful to ask for Ranpha's advice regarding your Intel GM45 based system.

[namaiki]

No thanks, I'm actually satistfied using my CPU for software decoding as I use MadVR.

I am totally over using DXVA, though I know that the Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder works a charm.


This guy has recommended that you block ffdshow video decoder.. well how about if you want to play a divx/xvid file?

...and "Enable Frame Time Correction option should always be checked." ugh..

[ranpha]

No thanks, I'm actually satistfied using my CPU for software decoding as I use MadVR.

I am totally over using DXVA, though I know that the Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder works a charm.


This guy has recommended that you block ffdshow video decoder.. well how about if you want to play a divx/xvid file?

...and "Enable Frame Time Correction option should always be checked." ugh..

To play MPEG4-ASP videos, MPC-HC internal decoder works just fine.

'Enable Frame Time Correction' should always be enabled. Don't tell me you you never play videos with variable frame rates. That setting is not only for VC-1 videos and many people think it is.

[namaiki]

'Enable Frame Time Correction' should always be enabled. Don't tell me you you never play videos with variable frame rates. That setting is not only for VC-1 videos and many people think it is.

In fact, I only get stuttering with VFR video with 'Enable Frame Time Correction' turned on.

[ranpha]

In fact, I only get stuttering with VFR video with 'Enable Frame Time Correction' turned on.

Hmm... I must be dreaming when I play my direct rip of The Dark Knight and the Stargate Continuum Blu-rays and get stutterings with 'Enable Frame Time Correction' disabled. Turning it on made the stutterings go away just like what Beliyall claims it should be.

[edigee]

No thanks, I'm actually satistfied using my CPU for software decoding as I use MadVR.

I am totally over using DXVA, though I know that the Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder works a charm.


This guy has recommended that you block ffdshow video decoder.. well how about if you want to play a divx/xvid file?

...and "Enable Frame Time Correction option should always be checked." ugh..

He's talking about blocking ffdshow video decoder only for H264 ffdshow decoder ,so if the file fails to play in DXVA mode with internal MPC_HC filter, the ffdshow h264 decoder should not automaticly enable(because of the high CPU usage). Maybe he's not considering the DXVA capabitily of the ffdshow decoder that was introduced later.
Anyway blocking ffdshow decoder doesn't mean that DivX or Xvid file would be not decode by ffdshow. The blocking only involves H264 files.

[namaiki]

He's talking about blocking ffdshow video decoder only for H264 ffdshow decoder ,so if the file fails to play in DXVA mode with internal MPC_HC filter, the ffdshow h264 decoder should not automaticly enable(because of the high CPU usage). Maybe he's not considering the DXVA capabitily of the ffdshow decoder that was introduced later.
Anyway blocking ffdshow decoder doesen't mean that DivX or Xvid file would be not decode by ffdshow. The blocking only involves H264 files.

No. Read again.

and ffdshow's dxva component is a separate filter.

if you want to block ffdshow video's h.264\avc component you can do that within ffdshow video decoder configuration, not so easily in mpc-hc.

[namaiki]

Hmm... I must be dreaming when I play my direct rip of The Dark Knight and the Stargate Continuum Blu-rays and get stutterings with 'Enable Frame Time Correction' disabled. Turning it on made the stutterings go away just like what Beliyall claims it should be.

Those are VFR? I wouldn't claim to know what has gone wrong there, but I certainly would not recommend every single user to enable that function.

[ranpha]

Those are VFR? I wouldn't claim to know what has gone wrong there, but I certainly would not recommend every single user to enable that function.

Dark Knight is VC-1 with VFR, Stargate Continuum is AVC with VFR too. There are quite a lot of VFR Blu-rays out there but these two are the titles I have. No way I play those kind of titles with 'Enable Frame Time Correction' disabled.

Plus, that setting doesn't affect non-VFR videos playback, like almost all OTA reencoded anime fansubs out there (I have plenty of those too).

[namaiki]

Dark Knight is VC-1 with VFR, Stargate Continuum is AVC with VFR too. There are quite a lot of VFR Blu-rays out there but these two are the titles I have. No way I play those kind of titles with 'Enable Frame Time Correction' disabled.

Plus, that setting doesn't affect non-VFR videos playback, like almost all OTA reencoded anime fansubs out there (I have plenty of those too).

Like I said, I get stuttering when playing VFR video with that option enabled. I also wrote that 'I wouldn't claim to know what has gone wrong.'

Since you have written the above, perhaps you could try play those videos on a vanilla MPC-HC and see what you get.

[edigee]

No. Read again.

and ffdshow's dxva component is a separate filter.

if you want to block ffdshow video's h.264\avc component you can do that within ffdshow video decoder configuration, not so easily in mpc-hc.

Agree. For instance if you have CCCP codecs installed you can simply untick the H264/AVC box from settings/ffdshow video decoders.

[ranpha]

No. Read again.

and ffdshow's dxva component is a separate filter.

if you want to block ffdshow video's h.264\avc component you can do that within ffdshow video decoder configuration, not so easily in mpc-hc.

Even if ffdshow Video Decoder AVD component is disabled, ffdshow Video Decoder will still be loaded by MPC-HC if raw video output support is enabled. So the most fool-proof way to ensure that ffdshow Video Decoder will not be loaded by MPC-HC is to block in in External Filters section.

Like I said, I get stuttering when playing VFR video with that option enabled. I also wrote that 'I wouldn't claim to know what has gone wrong.'

Since you have written the above, perhaps you could try play those videos on a vanilla MPC-HC and see what you get.

If you do not know what has gone wrong, why is then you claim 'Enable Frame Time Correction' must be disabled? Beliyall has already said what that setting do in his old thread, and it works at least for me in all my cases that needed it.

Ah, BTW, I am using normal version of MPC-HC.

[namaiki]

Even if ffdshow Video Decoder AVD component is disabled, ffdshow Video Decoder will still be loaded by MPC-HC if raw video output support is enabled. So the most fool-proof way to ensure that ffdshow Video Decoder will not be loaded by MPC-HC is to block in in External Filters section.
Those are two different filters AFAIK.



If you do not know what has gone wrong, why is then you claim 'Enable Frame Time Correction' must be disabled?
When Frame Time Correction is enabled, MPC-HC appears to lock the frame rate and where the frame rate changes, it takes too long to respond. This is what causes I believe causes the stuttering in my setup.

example off the top of my head using MPC-HC default settings and all internal filters, though this happens with my normal video setup as well

video is VFR, 24FPS -> 60FPS
enabled(something goes wrong): http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/459/withw.jpg (continues like that)
disabled(no stuttering): http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/5739/without.jpg (contintues as a straight line)


BTW, I am using normal version of MPC-HC.Try use the default settings. Try use MPC-HC's internal filters. Try both at the same time. Do you get stuttering with those?




It has been written, 'if you experience stuttering, enable Frame Time Correction.' That is my opinion as well.

Anyways, all I am saying is.. If you experience stuttering, you enable can Frame Time Correction for yourself, but this option does not help everybody so you should not carelessly recommend it. One set of settings will not work for everyone - that's why there is the 'if' in 'if you experience stuttering'.

[ranpha]

Those are two different filters AFAIK.



No, it isn't.

Those are two different filters AFAIK.
When Frame Time Correction is enabled, MPC-HC appears to lock the frame rate and where the frame rate changes, it takes too long to respond. This is what causes I believe causes the stuttering in my setup.

example off the top of my head using MPC-HC default settings and all internal filters, though this happens with my normal video setup as well

video is VFR, 24FPS -> 60FPS
enabled(something goes wrong): http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/459/withw.jpg (continues like that)
disabled(no stuttering): http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/5739/without.jpg (contintues as a straight line)


I don't look at the CTRL-J lines because by virtue of making them appear, frame drops and stuttering happen. Kinda like what happened if the internal subtitle engine is used, very hard to get straight line with it.

The stuttering can be seen with naked eye even without CTRL-J. Oh, BTW I can differentiate between judder and stuttering.



Try use the default settings. Try use MPC-HC's internal filters. Try both at the same time. Do you get stuttering with those?

It has been written, 'if you experience stuttering, enable Frame Time Correction.' That is my opinion as well.

Anyways, all I am saying is.. If you experience stuttering, you enable can Frame Time Correction for yourself, but this option does not help everybody so you should not carelessly recommend it. One set of settings will not work for everyone - that's why there is the 'if' in 'if you experience stuttering'.


I have them if I used the internal decoders for AVC and VC-1.

If you claim that one setting doesn't help everyone, then you should not claim that 'Enable Frame Time Correction' should not be disabled too. I'll just let it enable all the time because for me, it helps reducing stuttering in VFR videos.

Turning in on or off when playing non-VFR videos doesn't make a difference. So, in most cases, I believe turning it on all the time works just fine, unless of course you have proof that this affect non-VFR videos.

[namaiki]

No, it isn't.
If ffdshow video decoder is blocked, ffdshow raw video filter can still be loaded.

The stuttering can be seen with naked eye even without CTRL-J.
I wouldn't have checked CTRL+J if the video wasn't acting up in the first place.

If you claim that one setting doesn't help everyone, then you should not claim that 'Enable Frame Time Correction' should not be disabled too.
If you didn't know, it is not enabled by default.

I'll just let it enable all the time because for me, it helps reducing stuttering in VFR videos.
If it helps you only, then don't post such nonsense on your blog if you're trying to help people. I followed your advice and I am telling you that it did not work.

Turning in on or off when playing non-VFR videos doesn't make a difference.
That is true in my experience as well.

So, in most cases, I believe turning it on all the time works just fine, unless of course you have proof that this affect non-VFR videos.
No, but I have VFR videos and so I am affected. Perhaps you can mention as such on your blog that enabling frame time correction is optional and may help, if there is stuttering.

By the way, please note that I'm not saying that Frame Time Correction should never be used. I'm just saying that it should be used sparingly.

[ranpha]

No, it isn't.
If ffdshow video decoder is blocked, ffdshow raw video filter can still be loaded.

Nope, it won't. The merit are far lower than ffdshow Video Decoder.


I wouldn't have checked CTRL+J if the video wasn't acting up in the first place.

I never bother with CTRL-J unless I need to. Bringing up the stats here is enough to cause frame drops and stuttering for me.



If you didn't know, it is not enabled by default.


That's why I tell everyone to enable it.


If it helps you only, then don't post such nonsense on your blog if you're trying to help people. I followed your advice and I am telling you that it did not work.


Same to you. I followed your advice and my VFR Blu-rays stuttered if that setting is disabled. I am telling you your advice doesn't work for me.



No, but I have VFR videos and so I am affected. Perhaps you can mention as such on your blog that enabling frame time correction is optional and may help, if there is stuttering.

By the way, please note that I'm not saying that Frame Time Correction should never be used. I'm just saying that it should be used sparingly.


So you did admit that this setting may help people with stuttering videos. You know, people like me who actually have stuttering cured when this setting is turned on. Just like what Beliyall claimed it should be.

Thus I deem that this setting should always be turned on. Remember, you are not the only one who has VFR videos. Remember that when replying to me.

[namaiki]

I said it may help if you have stuttering but should not be turned on if you don't experience stuttering.
You can turn it on for yourself, but you should not tell everyone to turn it on unless they have the same problems as your setup.

The thing is, I don't understand why you would tell everyone to enable it always when it won't help everyone.

Remember, you are not the only one who has VFR videos. Remember that when replying to me.
I don't think you understand what optional means.

[ranpha]

I said it may help if you have stuttering but should not be turned on if you don't experience stuttering.
You can turn it on for yourself, but you should not tell everyone to turn it on unless they have the same problems as your setup.


As a counter-point (watching Umineko now), I say that setting should be turned on even if there are no problems.

Why? It doesn't change anything for non-VFR videos of any type, and it may help people who has VFR videos. Let just say that this is a pre-emptive step that will remove a potential source of problem in the future.

You only have a point if this setting, when enabled, caused problems with non-VFR videos.

[namaiki]

Let just say that this is a pre-emptive step that will remove a potential source of problem in the future.
Not if it makes things worse for a potential problem that may never occur.

You only have a point if this setting, when enabled, caused problems with non-VFR videos.
Actually, I have a point because it causes problems at all.

[ranpha]

Not if it makes things worse for a potential problem that may never occur.

Apparently in your world, stuttering when playing VFR videos doesn't happen. Is that the case?

Hello there, you are not the only one who has VFR videos.

[namaiki]

I said it may help if you have stuttering but should not be turned on if you don't experience stuttering.
You can turn it on for yourself, but you should not tell everyone to turn it on unless they have the same problems as your setup.

Read the above. It means that some people should have the option turned on and some people should have it turned off.

I am not saying that everyone should have it a certain way (apparently off) unlike you!

[ranpha]

Read the above. It means that some people should have the option turned on and some people have it turned off.

I am not saying that everyone should have it a certain way (apparently off) unlike you!

But you are implying that this setting should be turned off.

And BTW, define 'some people'. What situation should this setting turned off? When not having problems? Only turned it on when playing VFR videos? Then turning it off when playing non-VFRs?

That's sound like a lot of work for me. IMO, people should just turned it on so that when they unknowingly play VFR videos, they won't have stuttering videos at all. Set it up once and forget it? DO you really enjoy turning it on and off on per video basis?

Preventive is better than cure. Well, most of the time anyway.

[namaiki]

What situation should this setting turned off? When not having problems? Only turned it on when playing VFR videos? Then turning it off when playing non-VFRs?
The people with the issue keep the setting on. The people who do not experience such a thing keep the setting off.

[ranpha]

The people with the issue keep the setting on. The people who do not experience such a thing keep the setting off.

So you imply that only when you got problems, this thing should be turned on. You want people to have problems first before they are told to turn on that setting. Is that what you want to imply.

I believe that I have already said 'Prevention is better than cure'.

Hmmmmm........ I think I am right and you are wrong. Why you want people to have A VERY AVOIDABLE PROBLEM is beyond me.

[Grendel007]

I'm actually satistfied using my CPU for software decoding as I use MadVR.

I am totally over using DXVA, though I know that the Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder works a charm.


Is it a big difference in picture quality between EVR and madVR?

MadVR cannot enable DXVA, can it?

What CPU have you got?

Do you play films on 190x1080p with this CPU?

[namaiki]

Is it a big difference in picture quality between EVR and madVR?
I can see the difference when scaling, say 480p-> 1080p. MadVR has a multitude of different scaling algorithms that you can use.

MadVR cannot enable DXVA, can it?Only with CoreAVC, but I can't use that as my video card has 256MB of VRAM which does not seem to be enough for upscaling and video decoding at the same time.

What CPU have you got?P8600 - 2x 2.4GHz. It's a notebook computer.

Do you play films on 1920x1080p with this CPU?I don't recall having any problems in the past.


Well, DXVA is still good for when running on battery, but there's no point for me when I have ReClock processing audio using up to 30% of CPU time.

[namaiki]

ranpha: I think you should check if you still experience stuttering when you have VSync and Accurate VSync (within MPC-HC) + Aero - Enable Frame Time Correction.

I wouldn't be surprised if you experienced stuttering with MPC-HC's EVR Custom Presenter's VSync disabled.

With Aero alone, you won't get tearing, but if you disable MPC-HC's VSync you also disable it's frame handling.

[ranpha]

ranpha: I think you should check if you still experience stuttering when you have VSync and Accurate VSync (within MPC-HC) + Aero - Enable Frame Time Correction.

I wouldn't be surprised if you experienced stuttering with MPC-HC's EVR Custom Presenter's VSync disabled.

With Aero alone, you won't get tearing, but if you disable MPC-HC's VSync you also disable it's frame handling.

Enabling VSync + Accurate VSync with Aero enabled and Enable Frame Time Correction disabled did not solve the stuttering issue.

BTW, when VSync and/or Accurate VSync is enabled, MPC-HC EVR custom presenter will hand control of the vsync correction to the GPU device drivers. Only if Alternative Vsync enabled did MPC-HC will take over frame handling. Oh, and if Alternative Vsync is turned on and Enabled Frame Time Correction is off, stuttering is still there.

[namaiki]

What video decoder/filter are you using and which video renderer? (I guess EVR-CP since there's been no mention of EVR sync)

Also, what's your computer's GPU, or does this same stuttering occur on all of your PCs?

Thanks for the information, I only knew that I needed to enable aternative vsync when I have aero disabled in my setup.

[ranpha]

What video decoder/filter are you using and which video renderer? (I guess EVR-CP since there's been no mention of EVR sync)

Thanks for the information, I only knew that I needed to enable aternative vsync when I have aero disabled in my setup.

Internal decoders, all testing are done with it.

[namaiki]

I edited my post above but you were too fast. Do you have an SLI or Crossfire setup?

[ranpha]

I edited my post above but you were too fast. Do you have an SLI or Crossfire setup?

I don't have SLI setup (single GTX260).

[namaiki]

Curiouser and curiouser.. I suppose you've already done all you can for your setup. :|

BTW, when VSync and/or Accurate VSync is enabled, MPC-HC EVR custom presenter will hand control of the vsync correction to the GPU device drivers. Only if Alternative Vsync enabled did MPC-HC will take over frame handling. Oh, and if Alternative Vsync is turned on and Enabled Frame Time Correction is off, stuttering is still there.
Alternative VSync
Enabling alternative VSync will bypass the default VSync built into D3D. This can often get rid of tearing issues and is the preferred mode of VSync if your hardware/drivers are compatible with it.
D3D != GPU device drivers?

[ranpha]

Curiouser and curiouser.. I suppose you've already done all you can for your setup. :|



D3D != GPU device drivers?

With VSync/Accurate VSync, vsync correction will be done by GPU device drivers. Hardware accelerated I can say. After all, EVR custom presenter is a Direct3D device.

With Alternative VSync, MPC-HC will be the one that perform vsync correction. It works well too but with extra CPU cycles.

[namaiki]

I see, I read the darn thing backwards.. =_=

What refresh rate are you using when playing videos?

[ranpha]

60Hz. BTW, as ai said before earlier in this thread, I can differentiate between judder and stuttering.

[namaiki]

I can differentiate between judder and stuttering.

Honestly, I can't determine if you can or if you can't, but I'd be inclined to think otherwise anyways.

I use 60Hz as well and I have an nVidia card and the same filters and I don't seem to get stuttering where you do is what confuses me.

I guess I would leave it at that. No conclusion.


Also, I have nothing against 60Hz..

[ranpha]

Honestly, I can't determine if you can or if you can't, but I'd be inclined to think otherwise anyways.

I use 60Hz as well and I have an nVidia card and the same filters and I don't seem to get stuttering where you do is what confuses me.

I guess I would leave it at that. No conclusion.


Also, I have nothing against 60Hz..

I know how a judderless video playback looks like (I have a home theatre setup at home, no HTPC though), that's why I know judder when I see it. The stuttering is different than the usual judder and happened more frequently. For reference, playing those Blurays on DMP-BD30 Panasonic is silky smooth.

[namaiki]

Like I said, I have nothing more to add to that. The solution confuses me and the cause of the problem seems to be underterminable.

Off Topic: Would you know what Intel ClearVideo(TM) is or what it does? AFAIK it seems to be a FGT, but everything looks the same in my eyes.

[ranpha]

Like I said, I have nothing more to add to that. The solution confuses me and the cause of the problem seems to be underterminable.

Off Topic: Would you know what Intel ClearVideo(TM) is or what it does? AFAIK it seems to be a FGT, but everything looks the same in my eyes.

ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT_ClearVideo is basically the same as ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT. It used to be proprietary until Casimir666 asked Intel for documentation for that particular DXVA mode. That's why MPC-HC supported it.

[namaiki]

So, pretty much it does nothing?

The above I have heard of in brief, but does ClearVideo do anything to how the video looks?

edit: dw.. well, at least in screenshots, output appears to be identical.

[ranpha]

So, pretty much it does nothing?

The above I have heard of in brief, but does ClearVideo do anything to how the video looks?

edit: dw.. well, at least in screenshots, output appears to be identical.

Of course, all H.264 decoders give identical output.

[namaiki]

Okay sure, but the point is I'm trying to find out what ClearVideo does.

[ranpha]

Okay sure, but the point is I'm trying to find out what ClearVideo does.

Intel tack ClearVideo to signal that their H.264 bitstream decoding feature works differently compared to, let say, Microsoft's ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT method. The internal workings are different, but the output is the same.

[namaiki]

Thanks, I get what you mean but what does 'tack' mean?

[ranpha]

Thanks, I get what you mean but what does 'tack' mean?

Microsoft bitstreaming method: ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT
Intel semi-propriety bitstreaming method: ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT_ClearVideo.

Because Intel bitstreaming method are different than Microsoft's (although output is identical in theory), that's why Intel tack the phrase 'ClearVideo' to their bitstreaming mode so that DXVA-supporting software players like MPC-HC will not be confused.

Imagine the chaos that will happen if Intel named their bitstreaming mode as 'ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT' without the 'ClearVideo' moniker. Video players like MPC-HC will query the G45 GPU device driver, see that it supports 'ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT' and tried to use DXVA for playback, just to see it fail. That's why Intel tacks the ClearVideo moniker to the end of 'ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT' phrase so that such confusions doesn't arise.

[namaiki]

Right, thanks again. It's just that I've never seen the word 'tack' being used like that.

[Grendel007]

I read in the intel specifications of GMA 4500 HD that this card doesn't support deep colour over hdmi. http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/quick-reference-guide-to-intel-integrated-graphics/

This is only the latest Intel® Core™ Processors with Intel® HD Graphics that can support deep color over hdmi.

Does it mean that picture quality over hdmi is noticeably better on the new intel's graphic than on the previous 4500HD.

How can it be compared to Nvidia graphics like e.g GeForce 320M? Do Pure Video HD or Cuda technology (in Nvidia) help to obtain a really good picture quality?

[namaiki]

Does it mean that picture quality over hdmi is noticeably better on the new intel's graphic than on the previous 4500HD.
I don't know, but you probably couldn't tell the difference unless you have expensive equipment. Things like DVDs should look the same as far as I know.

Do Pure Video HD or Cuda technology (in Nvidia) help to obtain a really good picture quality?
No, it should look exactly the same by itself.

[Grendel007]

Has anyone tried using PowerDVD 10 for mkv movies??

The latest 10 version offers mkv support. What's more it can also play custom subtitles. The quality of picture in this software has always been quite good. Sounds very promising .

What do you think?

[namaiki]

Have they got a demo? You could probably try it out that way, unless the demo comes feature limited. :p

[edigee]

I've tested PowerDVD10(just a litlle test):
1. It plays external subtitles for mkv, mp4,m2ts, avi, files via internal splitter - VS filter(DirectVobSub). That means you cannot have DXVA in action when you play files with subtitles (external or embeded). H264 ,VC1, Mpeg2 files with no subs can be played with DXVA(ATI Avivo for me) with no problems.
2.The quality of mpeg2/DVD image using DXVA(no upscaling) seems pretty good. Better than ArcSoft TMT 3 can do.
3.With upscaling, the image quality is better in ArcSoft TMT 3 than in PowerDVD10. At least for me ,maybe because in PDVD 10 I can't use my GPU to peform upscaling(ATI Stream doesn't work here) so the upscaling is made via CPU. On TMT I can use GPU upscaling.
Edit: It seems I can't use H264/AVC decoder from PDVD 10 out of the box(same thing happens for PDVD9) , It is not listed in "external decoders" neither with MPC_MC or KMPlayer.
Caution: If you want to test Power DVD 10 , get rid off the HDPack 2.3 because that one comes with a PDVD installer too so it would cause a real mess.

[namaiki]

Any idea what resizer is used for upscaling of video in PDVD10?

[edigee]

Any idea what resizer is used for upscaling of video in PDVD10?

Sorry, don't know ,I've just uninstalled it. I crashes every 5 minutes. ArcSoft TMT 3 is way better for me.....

[Grendel007]

Sorry, don't know ,I've just uninstalled it. I crashes every 5 minutes. ArcSoft TMT 3 is way better for me.....

What CPU Have you got?
With what files does it crash?

I cannot test mkv files with PDVD 10. It says the format file is not supported.
I had HP pack 2.3 - I uninstalled it and I reisntalled PDVD 10 but to no effect.

[edigee]

What CPU Have you got?
With what files does it crash?

I cannot test mkv files with PDVD 10. It says the format file is not supported.
I had HP pack 2.3 - I uninstalled it and I reisntalled PDVD 10 but to no effect.

It crashed during playing DVD-s.... LOL.
I have Intel E1400, HD 3650, Vista 32 bit. SP1.

[Grendel007]

I've tested PowerDVD10(just a litlle test):
1. It plays external subtitles for mkv, mp4,m2ts, avi, files via internal splitter - VS filter(DirectVobSub). That means you cannot have DXVA in action when you play files with subtitles (external or embeded). H264 ,VC1, Mpeg2 files with no subs can be played with DXVA(ATI Avivo for me) with no problems.


I changed the subtitles format to srt and put it in the same folder as the movie but it doesn't load. The film has built in subs but I'd like to add external. Is it possible?

[edigee]

I changed the subtitles format to srt and put it in the same folder as the movie but it doesn't load. The film has built in subs but I'd like to add external. Is it possible?

If it has exactly the same name as the movie file it should be load. Rightclick on PDVD window ,there's something like "primary" and "secundary" subtitle. It worked for me ,but as i told ,breaking DXVA ...and the font was a bit weird. But the subtitle file has to be named exactly the same as the movie: ex:
The.Lord.Of.TheRings:The.2.Towers.2002.mkv
The.Lord.Of.TheRings:The.2.Towers.2002.srt
or
The.Lord.Of.TheRings:The.2.Towers.2002.sub

Edit. Some players allows you to load any subs from the movie's folder no matter the name is different but I guess PDVD doesn't allow that.
Edit 2: Be sure you have VSFilter(DirectVobSub) installed.

[Grendel007]

Can anyone express one's opinion about possibly good picture quality obtained by any player, codecs.
Where to obtain good picture quality of 1080p mkv movies (with or without DXVA)

How would you grade:

MPC HC with MadVR

CoreAVC Video Decoder

CUDA accelaration

Arcsoft decoders

any other suggestions....

[namaiki]

MadVR
....
Great scaling options

CoreAVC Video Decoder
....
The same as any other decoder.

CUDA accelaration
....
The same as any other decoder.
Off-loading to GPU. Only really useful if your CPU isn't powerful enough.

Arcsoft decoders
.....
Should be the same as any other decoder.

All AVC decoders should produce identical video.

[Khaaan!]

I just use DivX 8's AVC decoders now with MPC-HC (none of the MPC filters are enabled, only AVI source filter so MJPEG videos play), more compatible with the various h264 videos from camcorders as well as not requiring any configuration routines,just tick DXVA if required and away you go.

[namaiki]

I just use DivX 8's AVC decoders now with MPC-HC (none of the MPC filters are enabled, only AVI source filter so MJPEG videos play), more compatible with the various h264 videos from camcorders as well as not requiring any configuration routines,just tick DXVA if required and away you go.

Just for anyone's information, if you want DivX 8 H.264 filter to do DXVA, after ticking DXVA in Divx settings, make sure that you are using MPC-HC's internal subtitle renderer and not VSFilter.

[Khaaan!]

I have the internal subtitle rendering enabled and all subs work (both embedded with mkv files and srt/idx combos accompanying AVI files) - I use Haali media splitter to quickly navigate subs/audio tracks and streams etc as in MPC-HC it's an extra menu away (navigate right click menu) where as in Haali it's a simple right click of the system tray.

DXVA works for me perfectly in all h264 based videos btw, including Apple Trailer site .mov downloads \m/ (this worked using DXVA only after I reinstalled QT Lite). It would work before but only when I changed the file extension to .hdmov but doing this meant I lost the Explorer thumbnails and video info in Windows 7 so I prefer to keep such files as .mov.

[Grendel007]

I cannot apply madVR output.

I installed it but it is greyed out. The graphic GPU is GT 325 M.

What is wrong?

[Khaaan!]

Installed what, divx 8? what gfx driver ?

[namaiki]

Make sure that you do not delete or move the MadVR folder, and make sure that you are using a 32-bit MPC-HC.

I've got a GeForce 9600M GT, so I think you should be fine.

[Grendel007]

Make sure that you do not delete or move the MadVR folder, and make sure that you are using a 32-bit MPC-HC.

I've got a GeForce 9600M GT, so I think you should be fine.

Where should this folder be placed? I istalled from desktop and left it there.

[namaiki]

Probably doesn't matter where. I have mine in my downloads folder. :p

[Grendel007]

Correct me if I am wrong BUT madVR output doesn't support external subtitles.

Am I right?

[namaiki]

Use VSFilter.

[namaiki]

ranpha: I just realised something.

you said you experienced stuttering with frame time correction disabled. is the stuttering in the same places in the video?

if so, when you have frame time correction enabled, and stuttering in a certain scene is nulled, in ctrl+J does the option say 'Corrected Frame Time: Yes' ?

does the option ever say 'Corrected Frame Time: Yes' ?

[ranpha]

There are no such thing such as 'Corrected Frame Time: Yes' if that setting is enabled. If Enable Frame Time Correction is enabled, the word 'FTC' will appear under Settings and disappear when disabled.

Stuttering will happen at the same place where the frame rate changes.

[namaiki]

'Corrected Frame Time' is on the same line as 'Refresh rate' which is two lines below the the 'Settings' line.

[ranpha]

Tested with Dark Knight BD at the problematic scene (early at the disc), and yeah the 'Corrected Frame Time' changed from No to Yes. I think there is a small hiccup when the mode changed but then playback returned to normal after that.

[surfer]

Thanks a lot for this thread!
At last i can play vc-1 files on my PC using the ArcSoft decoder.

But on my laptop Acer 1810T, Intel graphics, win7-x64, WMV files (wmv3) do not start to play when loaded to MPC.
The same files play ok on my PC with ATI HD 4550.

What could be the problem?

[namaiki]

Beats me, but the intel graphics can only accelerate mpeg2 and some h.264/avc afaik.

[surfer]

Thanks, but this thread is exactly about support of VC-1 by Intel...

I have an Acer notebook model Aspire 1810TZ. It
has chipset grahics (Mobile Intel 4 Series Express)
and an Intel U4100 CPU with 2 x 1.3 GHz and it runs
Windows7 X64.

So my question is: why there is no support for
VC1_VLD and what can I do to utilize DXVA for VC1 ?

My notebook has the same chip graphics and DXVA works with h264, mpeg2 and HD WMV videos for which MediaInfo shows the internal info "VC-1 (Miscrosoft)" but "WMV (WMV3)" files simply do not start to play after loading them into MPC.
At the bottom of the MPC-HT i see "Playing DXVA" but the playback does not start. What can i try to do?

[softy]

support of VC-1 by Intel:
http://img3.wal8.com/img3/softy/1277395477_738088.png
http://img3.wal8.com/img3/softy/1277395481_400768.png

WINDOWS7+INTEL4500HD
Intel_4500hd_dxva_vc1_wmv

[surfer]

@softy:

i do not understand. please specify what you mean exactly...thanks.

[cipher]

Hi,

Is VC-1 1080i still a no-no for DXVA?

The recently released PotPlayer and MPC-HC has managed to decode h.264/mpeg-2/VC-1 1080p with dxva, but I still couldn't get VC-1 1080i to work with dxva on my thinkpad x301 (Intel 4500MHD).

Any updates?

Thanks a lot,

Cipher

[marcello.marengi]

Hi rumpumpel1,

can you provide exact VC1 guids you have? I mean all 16 digits, not the name dxvachecker shows.