DXVA for H264 ok but no support for VC1 [Archive] - Page 2

Grendel007

18th March 2010, 08:52

The stuttering might go away if you disable subtitle animation or you don't enable subtitle animation (In MPC-HC: View-> Options-> Subtitles)

if aero is disabled and there is tearing, then make sure Vsync, accurate vsync, and alt vsync are all enabled under 'View-> Renderer Settings-> Vsync'

What the hell...

I checked the above settings.

On the notebook everything seems oK but the moment I connect to the tv set and the mkv is played on 1920x1080p the slight stuttering appears. DXVA is always enabled CPU load is 30%
Maybe my RAM memory has something to do with it?

I have Intel 4500 HD integrated and win 7 64 prof and 2GB RAM.

Please help me.

adam777

18th March 2010, 14:22

Grendel007, I think I've seen a similar problem with another 4500HD based notebook.
All good while running on notebook but takes a bit of a hit when connecting to TV.
My guess? it has something to do with the connection/dual display and not the player itself.

edigee

18th March 2010, 15:06

What the hell...

I checked the above settings.

On the notebook everything seems oK but the moment I connect to the tv set and the mkv is played on 1920x1080p the slight stuttering appears. DXVA is always enabled CPU load is 30%
Maybe my RAM memory has something to do with it?

I have Intel 4500 HD integrated and win 7 64 prof and 2GB RAM.

Please help me.

Is your video card capable to run two displays at maximum resolutions? See Intel GM45 specifications, and search for feedbacks of the way your card handles with 2 displays.
Many people use 2 different cards for running two displays at high resolutions.

littleD

18th March 2010, 17:03

Maybe my RAM memory has something to do with it?

Go to BIOS and set 258 MB Total Video memory. The existing memory on intel chip + shared memory (RAM) should be 256MB. Otherwise it may shutter.

Grendel007

18th March 2010, 20:11

Thank You for all your comments.

However the situation looks like this.

MPC HC plays smoothly mkv files encoded in VC-1 on the tv set 1080p by means of Arcsoft filters.

BUT mkv files h264 are played with some problems on the tv and sometimes even on the notebook. Played on internal H264 filters of MPC HC. (On Arcsoft filters there are major stutterings)

Example: the film plays smoothly but in some scenes when there is a camera movement from down to upwards (or sometimes from one side to the other) there are slight stutterings. These are the ONLY cases when these stutterings happen.

The stuttering IS reduced but NOT eliminated when "disable animation subtitle" is ticked. CPU load is about 30%, DXVA enabled.

P.S. @ littleD Thanks for advice but there is no such option in BIOS

I am looking forward to any help

ranpha

19th March 2010, 05:40

Grendel007, do you set your TV to 24Hz? If yes, set it to 60Hz/100Hz/120Hz. Anything but 24Hz.

Grendel007

19th March 2010, 07:37

Grendel007, do you set your TV to 24Hz? If yes, set it to 60Hz/100Hz/120Hz. Anything but 24Hz.

It is set to 100MHz.

namaiki

19th March 2010, 07:40

Try 60Hz or 120Hz, because 100Hz is a weird missmatch. Also, try go through the content itself frame by frame to make sure it is not just like that.

ranpha

19th March 2010, 08:47

It is set to 100MHz.

If your TV has that 'MotionFlow/TruMotion/Auto MotionPlus' frame interpolation thingy turned on, disable it.

Grendel007

20th March 2010, 00:09

I am puzzled.

I have tried BS Player Pro and... No stuttering at those few scenes.

What the hell..? Why MPC HC slightly stutters while at the same scenes (and without DXVA) BS Player Pro plays smoothly?

What's wrong with MPC HC?

P.S.
Can You tell me what frequency of dual core pentium can "guarantee" smooth playback of any mkv film without DXVA ?

namaiki

20th March 2010, 01:03

Maybe try EVR renderer in MPC-HC. Does BS Pro support subtitles?

frequency [/B]of dual core pentium can "guarantee" smooth playback of any mkv film without DXVA ?
You mean of any reasonably h.264 encoded file?

Grendel007

20th March 2010, 02:10

Maybe try EVR renderer in MPC-HC.
I cannot even think of any other setting. EVR is supposed to give optimal picture quality, isn't it??

Does BS Pro support subtitles?

Yes. The only problem is the lack of DXVA.

You mean of any reasonably h.264 encoded file?

What CPU frequency can handle most (if not all) mkv files both h264 and VC-1 and the rest.

edigee

20th March 2010, 10:16

What CPU frequency can handle most (if not all) mkv files both h264 and VC-1 and the rest.

Well ,If you're looking on comercial players requirements it says :
For BD playback:
PowerDVD 10: Min.-Pentium 4 541 (3.2 GHz), Athlon 64 X2 3800+ or above .
ArcSoft ToatMedia Theatre:
Intel
Minimum -
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo CPU E4400 2.00GHz
Intel® Core™ Duo T2600 2.16G
Recommended -
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6400 2.13GHz
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7400 2.16GHz
AMD
Minimum - AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 4600+ 2.4GHz
Recommended - AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 5600+ 2.8GHZ

Assuming these frequency values are given for a decent BD playback from a BD drive and without hardware acceleration you can be sure you'll be able to play in software mode any H264 ,VC1 smoothly without DXVA ,with any frequency spec. higher than these ones. DivX and Mpeg 2 HD files don't take too many resources of the CPU.
note: Power DVD req. seem a little too low(maybe they consider hardware acceleration playback)

Of course if you're thinking on building a powerful HTPC ,with no problems in playing any video (and audio) material you should stick to more powerful processor(a"Q" or "i" Intel).

If you don't want to use a "monster" processor you should use a videocard that can handle with all the video material in DXVA mode. Such a card is the NVIDIA GT220(a fanless edition from MSI just emerged) that can deal with DXVA H264 L@5.1 and 16 ref.frames ,DXVA for VC1, Mpeg2 dual stream DXVA decoding , NVIDIA CUDA techology and sound over HDMI(like on ATI HD4xxx series).

Grendel007

20th March 2010, 11:36

Minimum -
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo CPU E4400 2.00GHz
Intel® Core™ Duo T2600 2.16G
Recommended -
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6400 2.13GHz
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7400 2.16GHz

Assuming these frequency values are given for a decent BD playback from a BD drive and without hardware acceleration you can be sure you'll be able to play in software mode any H264 ,VC1 smoothly without DXVA ,with any frequency spec. higher than these ones.

I have Pentium Dual Core T4300 @2.1GHz. Is it enough?

Are you sure that mkv files are not more demanding than regular BD.

namaiki

20th March 2010, 11:52

They can be more demanding than standard BD.

Grendel007

20th March 2010, 12:06

They can be more demanding than standard BD.

thefore my question about CPU.

Does anyone know what CPU frequency is minumum?

namaiki

20th March 2010, 12:08

There is no limit.

Reasonably, my C2D 2.4GHZ CPU can play some 1080p at 40-70% core usage.

Grendel007

20th March 2010, 12:55

There is no limit.

Reasonably, my C2D 2.4GHZ CPU can play some 1080p at 40-70% core usage.

Is my T4300 Pentium dual core @2,1 GHz enough.

On the benchmark list it is:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Pentium+Dual-Core+T4300+%40+2.10GHz

But I am not sure wthether its score is relevant in reference to HD playback. The score is probably average of different tests.

namaiki

20th March 2010, 12:58

I really don't know. Try play some videos without DXVA.

edigee

20th March 2010, 13:23

Modern BD releases are now often encoded in either H264/MPEG-4 AVC or VC-1, So there should be no big difference between BD and the H264 and VC1 material you're talking about. But as far as I know the higher is the bitrate the more demandig the file is. BD has a bitrate of 36 Mbit/s and the regular H264 , VC1 files (BD rips) are up to 10Mbit/s bitrate so I think BD -s are more demanding.

namaiki

20th March 2010, 15:40

How about complexity in say, x264 encodes vs BD's AVC.

edigee

20th March 2010, 15:50

How about complexity in say, x264 encodes vs BD's AVC.

Same thing. X264 is the open source software library for H264 encoding
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X264
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC

namaiki

20th March 2010, 15:52

I mean like in levels and profiles for encoding.

edigee

20th March 2010, 21:32

I mean like in levels and profiles for encoding.

Blue Ray-s are using L@4.1 AVC high profile. Videos with L@5.1 profile and a higher number of ref. frames could be demanding in terms of DXVA compatibility but in software mode they act the same as L@4.1 videos.

namaiki

20th March 2010, 21:45

Blue Ray-s are using L@4.1 AVC high profile. Videos with L@5.1 profile and a higher number of ref. frames could be demanding in terms of DXVA compatibility but in software mode they act the same as L@4.1 videos.

So, they would not be more demanding to decode? Obviously for a software decoder, all videos of that encoding should be able to be played except for where there are unsupported features. Talking about CPU usage, not compatibility.

Khaaan!

20th March 2010, 23:17

I've switched to using the latest DivX 8 decoder as it now supports DXVA and has none of the juddering I've noticed with the built in MPC decoder (using DXVA). Also some camcorder HD videos were not playable using MPC's decoders using DXVA but this is all great now.

I suggest people check it out. Picture quality is excellent as well.

namaiki

20th March 2010, 23:33

Picture quality is excellent as well.

Picture quality should be identical.

Works on my nVidia card, but not on my Intel card where I actually need DXVA.

Khaaan!

20th March 2010, 23:43

Picture quality should be identical.

Works on my nVidia card, but not on my Intel card where I actually need DXVA.

By excellent I did not mean to say that the MPC decoder was worse for PQ, both (and all other players/decoders I have tried inc FFDShow's DXVA option) are excellent :)

I've not set the DivX 8 decoder as the preferred External Filter in MPC as it's working great, seems the DivX team have also finalised the MKV tech preview in version 8 as it installs by default (I'm on Win7 x64).

Nice.

namaiki

20th March 2010, 23:44

Both are compliant?

Khaaan!

20th March 2010, 23:46

Compliant?

edigee

21st March 2010, 09:14

@namaiki
Did you have a look here?
http://imouto.my/watching-h264-videos-using-dxva/
This blog is run by one of the users here (ranpha). He made a lot of DXVA tests ,including Intel GM45 graphic chipset ,it might be helpful to ask for Ranpha's advice regarding your Intel GM45 based system.

namaiki

21st March 2010, 10:32

ranpha

21st March 2010, 10:57

No thanks, I'm actually satistfied using my CPU for software decoding as I use MadVR.

I am totally over using DXVA, though I know that the Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder works a charm.

This guy has recommended that you block ffdshow video decoder.. well how about if you want to play a divx/xvid file?

...and "Enable Frame Time Correction option should always be checked." ugh..

To play MPEG4-ASP videos, MPC-HC internal decoder works just fine.

'Enable Frame Time Correction' should always be enabled. Don't tell me you you never play videos with variable frame rates. That setting is not only for VC-1 videos and many people think it is.

namaiki

21st March 2010, 10:59

'Enable Frame Time Correction' should always be enabled. Don't tell me you you never play videos with variable frame rates. That setting is not only for VC-1 videos and many people think it is.

In fact, I only get stuttering with VFR video with 'Enable Frame Time Correction' turned on.

ranpha

21st March 2010, 11:14

In fact, I only get stuttering with VFR video with 'Enable Frame Time Correction' turned on.

Hmm... I must be dreaming when I play my direct rip of The Dark Knight and the Stargate Continuum Blu-rays and get stutterings with 'Enable Frame Time Correction' disabled. Turning it on made the stutterings go away just like what Beliyall claims it should be.

edigee

21st March 2010, 11:14

No thanks, I'm actually satistfied using my CPU for software decoding as I use MadVR.

I am totally over using DXVA, though I know that the Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder works a charm.

This guy has recommended that you block ffdshow video decoder.. well how about if you want to play a divx/xvid file?

...and "Enable Frame Time Correction option should always be checked." ugh..

He's talking about blocking ffdshow video decoder only for H264 ffdshow decoder ,so if the file fails to play in DXVA mode with internal MPC_HC filter, the ffdshow h264 decoder should not automaticly enable(because of the high CPU usage). Maybe he's not considering the DXVA capabitily of the ffdshow decoder that was introduced later.
Anyway blocking ffdshow decoder doesn't mean that DivX or Xvid file would be not decode by ffdshow. The blocking only involves H264 files.

namaiki

21st March 2010, 11:16

He's talking about blocking ffdshow video decoder only for H264 ffdshow decoder ,so if the file fails to play in DXVA mode with internal MPC_HC filter, the ffdshow h264 decoder should not automaticly enable(because of the high CPU usage). Maybe he's not considering the DXVA capabitily of the ffdshow decoder that was introduced later.
Anyway blocking ffdshow decoder doesen't mean that DivX or Xvid file would be not decode by ffdshow. The blocking only involves H264 files.

No. Read again.

and ffdshow's dxva component is a separate filter.

if you want to block ffdshow video's h.264\avc component you can do that within ffdshow video decoder configuration, not so easily in mpc-hc.

namaiki

21st March 2010, 11:19

Hmm... I must be dreaming when I play my direct rip of The Dark Knight and the Stargate Continuum Blu-rays and get stutterings with 'Enable Frame Time Correction' disabled. Turning it on made the stutterings go away just like what Beliyall claims it should be.

Those are VFR? I wouldn't claim to know what has gone wrong there, but I certainly would not recommend every single user to enable that function.

ranpha

21st March 2010, 11:29

Those are VFR? I wouldn't claim to know what has gone wrong there, but I certainly would not recommend every single user to enable that function.

Dark Knight is VC-1 with VFR, Stargate Continuum is AVC with VFR too. There are quite a lot of VFR Blu-rays out there but these two are the titles I have. No way I play those kind of titles with 'Enable Frame Time Correction' disabled.

Plus, that setting doesn't affect non-VFR videos playback, like almost all OTA reencoded anime fansubs out there (I have plenty of those too).

namaiki

21st March 2010, 11:34

Dark Knight is VC-1 with VFR, Stargate Continuum is AVC with VFR too. There are quite a lot of VFR Blu-rays out there but these two are the titles I have. No way I play those kind of titles with 'Enable Frame Time Correction' disabled.

Plus, that setting doesn't affect non-VFR videos playback, like almost all OTA reencoded anime fansubs out there (I have plenty of those too).

Like I said, I get stuttering when playing VFR video with that option enabled. I also wrote that 'I wouldn't claim to know what has gone wrong.'

Since you have written the above, perhaps you could try play those videos on a vanilla MPC-HC and see what you get.

edigee

21st March 2010, 11:38

No. Read again.

and ffdshow's dxva component is a separate filter.

if you want to block ffdshow video's h.264\avc component you can do that within ffdshow video decoder configuration, not so easily in mpc-hc.

Agree. For instance if you have CCCP codecs installed you can simply untick the H264/AVC box from settings/ffdshow video decoders.

ranpha

21st March 2010, 12:40

No. Read again.

and ffdshow's dxva component is a separate filter.

if you want to block ffdshow video's h.264\avc component you can do that within ffdshow video decoder configuration, not so easily in mpc-hc.

Even if ffdshow Video Decoder AVD component is disabled, ffdshow Video Decoder will still be loaded by MPC-HC if raw video output support is enabled. So the most fool-proof way to ensure that ffdshow Video Decoder will not be loaded by MPC-HC is to block in in External Filters section.

Like I said, I get stuttering when playing VFR video with that option enabled. I also wrote that 'I wouldn't claim to know what has gone wrong.'

Since you have written the above, perhaps you could try play those videos on a vanilla MPC-HC and see what you get.

If you do not know what has gone wrong, why is then you claim 'Enable Frame Time Correction' must be disabled? Beliyall has already said what that setting do in his old thread, and it works at least for me in all my cases that needed it.

Ah, BTW, I am using normal version of MPC-HC.

namaiki

21st March 2010, 12:44

Even if ffdshow Video Decoder AVD component is disabled, ffdshow Video Decoder will still be loaded by MPC-HC if raw video output support is enabled. So the most fool-proof way to ensure that ffdshow Video Decoder will not be loaded by MPC-HC is to block in in External Filters section.
Those are two different filters AFAIK.

If you do not know what has gone wrong, why is then you claim 'Enable Frame Time Correction' must be disabled?
When Frame Time Correction is enabled, MPC-HC appears to lock the frame rate and where the frame rate changes, it takes too long to respond. This is what causes I believe causes the stuttering in my setup.

example off the top of my head using MPC-HC default settings and all internal filters, though this happens with my normal video setup as well

video is VFR, 24FPS -> 60FPS
enabled(something goes wrong): http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/459/withw.jpg (continues like that)
disabled(no stuttering): http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/5739/without.jpg (contintues as a straight line)

BTW, I am using normal version of MPC-HC.Try use the default settings. Try use MPC-HC's internal filters. Try both at the same time. Do you get stuttering with those?

It has been written, 'if you experience stuttering, enable Frame Time Correction.' That is my opinion as well.

Anyways, all I am saying is.. If you experience stuttering, you enable can Frame Time Correction for yourself, but this option does not help everybody so you should not carelessly recommend it. One set of settings will not work for everyone - that's why there is the 'if' in 'if you experience stuttering'.

ranpha

21st March 2010, 13:31

Those are two different filters AFAIK.

No, it isn't.

Those are two different filters AFAIK.
When Frame Time Correction is enabled, MPC-HC appears to lock the frame rate and where the frame rate changes, it takes too long to respond. This is what causes I believe causes the stuttering in my setup.

example off the top of my head using MPC-HC default settings and all internal filters, though this happens with my normal video setup as well

video is VFR, 24FPS -> 60FPS
enabled(something goes wrong): http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/459/withw.jpg (continues like that)
disabled(no stuttering): http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/5739/without.jpg (contintues as a straight line)

I don't look at the CTRL-J lines because by virtue of making them appear, frame drops and stuttering happen. Kinda like what happened if the internal subtitle engine is used, very hard to get straight line with it.

The stuttering can be seen with naked eye even without CTRL-J. Oh, BTW I can differentiate between judder and stuttering.

Try use the default settings. Try use MPC-HC's internal filters. Try both at the same time. Do you get stuttering with those?

It has been written, 'if you experience stuttering, enable Frame Time Correction.' That is my opinion as well.

Anyways, all I am saying is.. If you experience stuttering, you enable can Frame Time Correction for yourself, but this option does not help everybody so you should not carelessly recommend it. One set of settings will not work for everyone - that's why there is the 'if' in 'if you experience stuttering'.

I have them if I used the internal decoders for AVC and VC-1.

If you claim that one setting doesn't help everyone, then you should not claim that 'Enable Frame Time Correction' should not be disabled too. I'll just let it enable all the time because for me, it helps reducing stuttering in VFR videos.

Turning in on or off when playing non-VFR videos doesn't make a difference. So, in most cases, I believe turning it on all the time works just fine, unless of course you have proof that this affect non-VFR videos.

namaiki

21st March 2010, 13:40

No, it isn't.
If ffdshow video decoder is blocked, ffdshow raw video filter can still be loaded.

The stuttering can be seen with naked eye even without CTRL-J.
I wouldn't have checked CTRL+J if the video wasn't acting up in the first place.

If you claim that one setting doesn't help everyone, then you should not claim that 'Enable Frame Time Correction' should not be disabled too.
If you didn't know, it is not enabled by default.

I'll just let it enable all the time because for me, it helps reducing stuttering in VFR videos.
If it helps you only, then don't post such nonsense on your blog if you're trying to help people. I followed your advice and I am telling you that it did not work.

Turning in on or off when playing non-VFR videos doesn't make a difference.
That is true in my experience as well.

So, in most cases, I believe turning it on all the time works just fine, unless of course you have proof that this affect non-VFR videos.
No, but I have VFR videos and so I am affected. Perhaps you can mention as such on your blog that enabling frame time correction is optional and may help, if there is stuttering.

By the way, please note that I'm not saying that Frame Time Correction should never be used. I'm just saying that it should be used sparingly.

ranpha

21st March 2010, 17:44

No, it isn't.
If ffdshow video decoder is blocked, ffdshow raw video filter can still be loaded.

Nope, it won't. The merit are far lower than ffdshow Video Decoder.

I wouldn't have checked CTRL+J if the video wasn't acting up in the first place.

I never bother with CTRL-J unless I need to. Bringing up the stats here is enough to cause frame drops and stuttering for me.

If you didn't know, it is not enabled by default.

That's why I tell everyone to enable it.

If it helps you only, then don't post such nonsense on your blog if you're trying to help people. I followed your advice and I am telling you that it did not work.

Same to you. I followed your advice and my VFR Blu-rays stuttered if that setting is disabled. I am telling you your advice doesn't work for me.

No, but I have VFR videos and so I am affected. Perhaps you can mention as such on your blog that enabling frame time correction is optional and may help, if there is stuttering.

By the way, please note that I'm not saying that Frame Time Correction should never be used. I'm just saying that it should be used sparingly.

So you did admit that this setting may help people with stuttering videos. You know, people like me who actually have stuttering cured when this setting is turned on. Just like what Beliyall claimed it should be.

Thus I deem that this setting should always be turned on. Remember, you are not the only one who has VFR videos. Remember that when replying to me.

namaiki

21st March 2010, 17:53

I said it may help if you have stuttering but should not be turned on if you don't experience stuttering.
You can turn it on for yourself, but you should not tell everyone to turn it on unless they have the same problems as your setup.

The thing is, I don't understand why you would tell everyone to enable it always when it won't help everyone.

Remember, you are not the only one who has VFR videos. Remember that when replying to me.
I don't think you understand what optional means.

ranpha

21st March 2010, 18:00

I said it may help if you have stuttering but should not be turned on if you don't experience stuttering.
You can turn it on for yourself, but you should not tell everyone to turn it on unless they have the same problems as your setup.

As a counter-point (watching Umineko now), I say that setting should be turned on even if there are no problems.

Why? It doesn't change anything for non-VFR videos of any type, and it may help people who has VFR videos. Let just say that this is a pre-emptive step that will remove a potential source of problem in the future.

You only have a point if this setting, when enabled, caused problems with non-VFR videos.