MeGUI x264 presets.

[Sharktooth]

as a matter of fact you're not forced to use those presets. if you dont understand what they're made for, make your own ones or ask.
also, there is this thread as pointed out by kurtnoise. megui is not easy to use, we all know that, but it is the most configurable GUI for x264 giving the user a wide range of choices that other GUIs do not offer.
megui has a different user target than the other "easier to use" GUIs, its target are experienced users or newbies that are willing to learn how things work (the same is true for the presets too).

[Sharktooth]

Why was psy-rdo enabled again?
coz without AQ it is ok for detailed animes/toons.
Could someone make a preset for encoding video for the Nintendo DS(with the only file extension of .DPG and no .MKV/.AVi/etc.) ? and add support for making .DPG files for the Nintendo DS as well?
does the dpg muxer exist? also does DS support MPEG4-part2 (ASP) or MPEG4-part10 (AVC) video?

[Migs]

I hav't found the muxer for it, but info on the file specification and such can be found here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NDs-mPeG

At a glance
The DPG file specification is simple. All DPG files contain a 36 byte header, followed by audio, and then a standard mpeg-1 video stream. The audio format can differ; older DPG files used a special WAV format audio, but newer versions of moonshell (Nintendo DS Video Player) have phased that out in favor of MP2 audio.

[Sharktooth]

MPEG-1... megui doesnt support it (too old)... also there is no DPG muxer...
megui is just GUI for various tools.

[Migs]

Okay Sharktooth, thanks for the help and your time though.

[pelle412]

P.S. On a slightly unrelated note, put an "Import all" button, or bring back the ability to shift-select multiple profiles. I am not at all thrilled with clicking 30-40 times just to get every single profile.


When the profile update window comes up, right-click and choose select all and you're done. No more clicks.

[tetsuo55]

I suggested in tha past that megui could auto-calculate a lot of the settings in the presets by itself.

The user would simply check some boxes.

For compatibility:
-Hardware compatible mode(This would enable everything needed for DXVA and standalones)
-Apple/xbox1 mode (This can only be checked when hardware mode is checked, it adds further restrictions for these 2 systems)

When Hardware mode is not checked Megui uses Unrestricted mode

-Anime/Toon(This enables the special anime/toon settings for either hardware or unrestricted)

For quality(the slider idea mentioned above would probably be better)
-Fast
-Balanced
-HQ
-Extra Quality
-Insane

Megui would automatically calculate if it needs SD or HD settings based on the source.(The bonus with this is that max ref-frames can be calculated more accurately for non standard resolutions)

Everything would still be based on the information in this thread.

The screen could be updated with more options for other devices like mobiles. or even better, only a 3rd option added with hardware-custom with selectable devices. These would add device limits but the rest would still be calculated on the fly.

Imho this would be the ultimate solution.

[Neillithan]

@ tetsuo55, I think that's a great idea.

If all you do is criticize without providing solutions then no one will take you seriously; so provide constructive solutions.

Okay, I can see that some people take this whole internet thing way too seriously. If you want constructive solutions, fine. I'll have to extrapolate them from my previous posts.

1. Do not sort the profiles alphabetically. Sort them by their complexities. In addition, use a number to signify complexity.
Also, rename Extra Quality to HQ+ For example:

x264: DXVA-1-HD-Fast
x264: DXVA-2-Balanced
x264: DXVA-3-HQ
x264: DXVA-4-HQ+
x264: DXVA-5-Insane

This is not the most elegant solution, but you can figure out the complexities at a glance and they stay human readable.

You know what? I'm not a fan at all of the new naming scheme. I liked it better when it was HQ Slow, HQ Slower, HQ Slowest. Why? Because it was so easy to figure out at a glance. No deciphering was needed. No perfectly chosen names required. It was simple and I suggest going back to the old naming scheme.

x264: DXVA-1-HD-Fast
x264: DXVA-2-HD-Balanced
x264: DXVA-3-HD-Slow
x264: DXVA-4-HD-Slower
x264: DXVA-5-HD-Slowest (aka Insane)

A 5 year old can figure that out.

One constructive solution down, plenty more to go.

HD and SD. When is it best to use HD or SD profiles? If your videos are 720p+, use HD. If they're 720p-, use SD. I suggest automating the use of HD or SD profiles because having too many presets is confusing. I suggest consolidating HD and SD presets into 1 and making MeGUI decide for you based on your source video's resolution.

as a matter of fact you're not forced to use those presets. if you dont understand what they're made for, make your own ones or ask.

You can rename them whatever you want...

Update the developer build of MeGUI to update a different set of presets. Why? So that the stable build of MeGUI does not get experimental presets. The average user is going to get the updates because they're supposed to be improvements, not experiments. Improvements are usually tested and have the official seal of approval. Experiments belong in the developer build of MeGUI where they can be tested and tweaked. If you think the average user is going to sit there and rename presets because the devs chose bad names, THINK AGAIN. I'm above average and I won't even do that. Choose good names to begin with or don't force experimental presets on everyone. That's a constructive solution, don't argue with me.

there is already a check all/none via the right click on the list :

I am just going to reiterate my response because some people still believe that I am not being constructive.

Please, put an "import all" button. That is a constructive solution. Don't argue with me.

I know this response is bound to get some negative feedback and if it does, you're all whiners. I can't satisfy everyone.

[Kurtnoise]

eehh...calm down and stop louding.

1/ those presets are not experimental or if you think they are, I must confess that all encoders/tools that megui uses are also experimental.
2/ Add a "Import all" button is useless because Check All/Check None are buttons. I mean that they trigger the same thing in this case. So, it's a no from me.
3/ Of course, megui needs some improvements, especially for the presets management.
4/ I'm tired...

[LeXXuz]

I could use some help in finding the right profile to encode files for Sigma 8635 chipset used in TVix 6500/7000 or PopcornHour players.

I want to encode parts of my dvd collection to AVC to save space on my Tvix. So its used for non-HD materials.

Currently I use a slightly modified SA-PS3-XBOX360 profile with constant quality 18 and AVC Level set to 4.0 (recommended by Dvico). I thought to start here because therefore I used XVID CQ2 for my encodes.

Here is my current profile:

program --crf 18.0 --level 4 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-rdo --bime --weightb --direct auto --subme 6 --trellis 2 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-bufsize 9000 --vbv-maxrate 24000 --qcomp 0.5 --me umh --merange 12 --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "output" "input"


The results are quite good, but - as usual - I keep asking myself if some other settings would produce even better results or lower filesizes.

I just got my Tvix box last week and make my first steps with AVC after years of ASP encoding.

So I would really appreciate any suggestions. :helpful:

[Dark Eiri]

I don't see any problem with the new preset naming. Actually I like it better this way. Which one makes more sense for beginners: Slowest or Extra Quality?
I mean, HQ-Slowest, HQ-Fast... the average joe would be thinking "Hey, if it's HQ anyway, why the heck should I use the slowest one?".
So I think the new naming is a lot more user friendly. I don't think numbers would make it actually any better, you don't have to think that much to recognize the order of complexity (Fast->Balanced->HQ->Extra Quality->Insane).

[bottomsup]

For the device profiles that cap the max bitrate like AppleTV at 12,000 what happens if you use the bitrate calculator and the average bitrate for the size you chose is higher than the max?

[Sharktooth]

the encoder will throw a lot of warnings and the encoding will be somewhat screwed.
lower your filesize.

[florinandrei]

1. Do not sort the profiles alphabetically. Sort them by their complexities.

I like that. Alphabetical sort is easy to implement, but a bad choice from a usability perspective.

Update the developer build of MeGUI to update a different set of presets. Why? So that the stable build of MeGUI does not get experimental presets. The average user is going to get the updates because they're supposed to be improvements, not experiments. Improvements are usually tested and have the official seal of approval. Experiments belong in the developer build of MeGUI where they can be tested and tweaked.

Having an experimental version in parallel to a "stable" version is a good thing, of course. But I'm not sure if the MeGUI developers have the resources to do that. Keep in mind they do it as a hobby. Also, I'm not sure how big the user base would be for the experimental version - if that's not big enough, then that version would not provide too many benefits.

With that said, in an ideal scenario, I would appreciate having separate experimental and stable versions, of course.

That's a constructive solution, don't argue with me.

Well, I agree with most of your points, but let's tone it down a couple notches, shall we? :)
Keep in mind that the developers are doing this in their spare time, some of them perhaps despite various challenges that they may be facing in their lives.
So let's take a deep breath and remain polite, civil and mature.

BTW, I've a feeling that the developers might welcome anyone helping them to write code, add new features, fix bugs, etc. ;) Just a friendly hint.

Please, put an "import all" button.

I agree. From a usability perspective, the lack of the Import All button is a defect.
And yes, I was just as frustrated as you are because of this bug. But it is what it is; I just pointed it out, before you did, and that was that, since I don't really have time to contribute code to fix it myself.
This project being run mostly on a volunteer basis, there's not much point in stomping your foot in the ground. Instead, roll up your sleeves and contribute code if you want to help.

And just to drive the point home beyond any doubt: I do agree with the facts that you indicated. I just think that the presentation could benefit from some changes.

[Sharktooth]

Since i am sick of this, presets wont change. make your own if you dont like them. dont discuss megui features or other stuff, except presets, in this thread (FORUM RULE n.3) and the IMPORT ALL buttont WONT BE ADDED (Forum rule n.1 - READ BEFORE ASKING).
ill ask a moderator to delete or move the irrelevant posts.

[Neillithan]

Since i am sick of this, presets wont change. make your own if you dont like them. dont discuss megui features or other stuff, except presets, in this thread (FORUM RULE n.3) and the IMPORT ALL buttont WONT BE ADDED (Forum rule n.1 - READ BEFORE ASKING).
ill ask a moderator to delete or move the irrelevant posts.

bah. -_- You'll wise up someday.

[Sharktooth]

and maybe you will learn to respect the forum rules

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated: V76

[LeXXuz]

Since i am sick of this, presets wont change. make your own if you dont like them. dont discuss megui features or other stuff, except presets, in this thread (FORUM RULE n.3) and the IMPORT ALL buttont WONT BE ADDED (Forum rule n.1 - READ BEFORE ASKING).
ill ask a moderator to delete or move the irrelevant posts.

So its not allowed to ask for some help to build/modify presets for example for special hardware players either? Sorry that I misunderstood the topic.

[Sharktooth]

yes, sure, it is allowed. i was just sick of ppl hijacking threads.

[Audionut]

Okay, I'm going to use another gui, because I don't like the way that the profiles are named.

Take the simple solution.

Don't argue with devs, and try to say that your way is best, better.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated: V77

[stax76]

There is a balanced profile using crf 18, wouldn't it be better all balanced profiles using crf 22?

[Sharktooth]

Q18 is the mathematical equivalent o Q2 for ASP. btw, i will adjust it to a higher value in the next updates.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated: V78

[lexor]

I noticed presets still use stuff like --qcomp 0.5; In light of this change: "Move adaptive quantization to before ratecontrol, eliminate qcomp bias", maybe that setting should be rethought/removed completely (to leave it at default)? But I'm not sure what exactly that change did to the quantizer curve.

[corporalgator]

Love the presets, thanks for the hard work.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=141124

This thread discusses how the new builds are affecting encoding with crf especially at 18 causing files to balloon with no visual quality improvement. Are you going to adjust the crf sizes up from 18? I am already doing this manually.

[Sharktooth]

yep i will adjust CRF as soon as i get consistent results.

[corporalgator]

Cool, you're great :)

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated: V79

[JarrettH]

I think I'd leave the CRF as is until he finishes updating

r967 - 2.3gb (2,100 kbps video, AC3 5.1)
r968 - 2.6gb (2,700 kbps video, AC3 5.1)
r973 - 2.17gb (2,100 kbps video, AC3 5.1)

Encoding "The Fall" from DVD with CQ HQ preset
I'll likely try again tonight seeing as 977 is out. Sort of annoying :P

[Sharktooth]

infact im waiting...

[Sharktooth]

I noticed presets still use stuff like --qcomp 0.5; In light of this change: "Move adaptive quantization to before ratecontrol, eliminate qcomp bias", maybe that setting should be rethought/removed completely (to leave it at default)? But I'm not sure what exactly that change did to the quantizer curve.
the qcomp 0.5 was there before AQ and that's only for some specific presets.

[buzzqw]

and .. btw the --longhelp of x264 say
--qcomp <float> QP curve compression: 0.0 => CBR, 1.0 => CQP [0.60]

so.. it's fine as is

BHH

[corporalgator]

Why is the default --b-adapt 1 bframes adapt 1 used in unrestricted 1 pass HQ but the frames kept at a low 4? Adapt 1 is the old method where it scaled linearly and thus even using 16 doesn't really give you much a speed reduction and can pay dividends on certain sources. Perhaps this should be much higher or switch to the new adapt 2? The 2 pass anime toons presets might as well use 16 bframes for all the profiles since there's no real speed loss and 16 bframes can pay huge dividends for anime.

[Sharktooth]

not all anime presets. the DXVA ones has b-frames restrictions. ill update the other ones though.
about unrestricted presets and b-frames i have to think about it.

[Dark Shikari]

Why is the default --b-adapt 1 bframes adapt 1 used in unrestricted 1 pass HQ but the frames kept at a low 4? Adapt 1 is the old method where it scaled linearlyNo, it didn't scale linearly; it basically didn't scale at all (pretty much constant speed regardless of --bframes).

[corporalgator]

Ah ok, but yeah, don't see a point of still enabling the legacy adapt 1 and not using more bframes since there's no speed penalty and a possible compression and quality benefit.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated: V80

[stax76]

There are insane profiles using 4 B-frames and there are balanced profiles using 16 B-frames, I don't know about the new B-frame code but shouldn't in any case insane profiles have a higher value? Higher means slower, right?

[Dark Shikari]

There are insane profiles using 4 B-frames and there are balanced profiles using 16 B-frames, I don't know about the new B-frame code but shouldn't in any case insane profiles have a higher value? Higher means slower, right?B-adapt 2 with 4 bframes is better than b-adapt 1 with 16.

[LeXXuz]

I'm getting confused with these b-frames settings. The help reads like more b-frames help compressibility but have general less quality. So should I use more or less b-frames regarding quality in crf-mode? Please enlighten me with this. :)

[Sharktooth]

the more the better with Adaptive b-frames set to 1 (--b-adapt 1), if set to 2 then 3 or 4 b-frames is enough. a higher value will kill the encoding speed, expecially on multicore CPUs. --b-adapt 2 is definatly better even with a small number of b-frames than --b-adapt 1 (except, maybe, if the source is anime/toons)

[LeXXuz]

the more the better with Adaptive b-frames set to 1 (--b-adapt 1), if set to 2 then 3 or 4 b-frames is enough. a higher value will kill the encoding speed, expecially on multicore CPUs. --b-adapt 2 is definatly better even with a small number of b-frames than --b-adapt 1 (except, maybe, if the source is anime/toons)

Now I got it. :thanks:

I will change my presets to --b-adapt 2 then. I am not really concerned about speed. I still get around 20FPS with almost any quality setting on, the recommended b-adapt2 with 4 b-frames and noise pre-filtering on a full-PAL source resolution. :)

[fib0by]

I could be mistaken, but it seems like recently the encoding speed has decreased somewhat. I'm using the Standalone AVC-HD preset with 1080p material, bitrate between 8000 and 12000 kb/s, 2-pass encoding.
Before, I used to get 12...22 fps during first pass, and 6...8 during second pass.
Now I get 6...8 during first pass and 5 during second pass.
I don't make any changes to the preset, except the bitrate, I use whatever settings come with the preset.

What could be the cause? Changes in the presets? Changes with x264?

[Sharktooth]

changes in the preset (in the latest update), since it now uses b-adapt 2 but that should affect the first pass only and not by that much considering the low number of b-frames.
check your avisynth script and maybe post it along with the logfile

[gahz]

i had a quick question about crf preset that is confusing me.

the crf presets have trellis turned on but most of the documentation i have seen for x264 options says to not turn trellis on for crf.

can someone please help me with my confusion. thanks in advance.

whoops in my confusion i forgot to write what my question was. so which way is the correct/better way to do crf? trellis on or off and if the answer is on, then why do the x264 guides state to not use trellis with crf?

[Sharktooth]

why not?

[gahz]

why not?

well when i went and looked up x264 options to see what each thing does i came up to a few sites that stated to not use trellis for single pass. here's an example:
http://www.digital-digest.com/articles/x264_options_page6.html

if you scroll down to: Trellis RD Quantization

it states: Never turn it on in single pass quantizer mode, as it would lead to unexpected results

am i just getting things mixed up and crf is not single pass quant mode?

[mozzle]

Hi Sharktooth.

I noticed that in the the new Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality Insane preset, --no-dct-decimate is activated but in all other 1pass CRF presets it is not. I remember reading at http://avidemux.org/admWiki/index.php?title=H264#H.264.2FAVC_options_explained that "Since DCT Decimation leads to significant smaller files in Quantizer Modes (QP or CRF) it's recommended to keep this setting enabled (edit: or disabled in the case of MeGUI, right?). You should not disable the DCT Decimation, unless you have a very good reason to do so."

Also from http://ffmpeg.x264.googlepages.com/mapping "By default, x264 will decimate (remove all coefficients from) P-blocks that are extremely close to empty of coefficients. This can improve overall efficiency with little visual cost, but may work against an attempt to retain grain or similar. DCT decimation should be left on unless there's a good reason to disable it."


For reference, here are the current (v.80) 1pass CRF presets:

Unrestricted 1pass Const. Extra Q.
program --crf 18 --ref 8 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-adapt 2 --b-pyramid --b-rdo --bime --weightb --filter -1:-1 --subme 7 --trellis 2 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --me umh --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "output" "input"

Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality Fast
program --crf 18 --ref 3 --bframes 16 --filter -1:-1 --subme 5 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "output" "input"

Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality HQ
program --crf 18 --ref 5 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-adapt 2 --b-pyramid --b-rdo --bime --weightb --filter -1:-1 --trellis 2 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --me umh --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "output" "input

Unrestricted 1pass Lossless
program --qp 0 --nf --subme 1 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4 --merange 12 --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "output" "input"

Unrestricted 1pass MaxSpeed
program --crf 22 --nf --no-cabac --subme 1 --partitions none --me dia --threads auto --thread-input --aq-mode 0 --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "output" "input"

Unrestricted 1pass Const. Quality Insane
program --crf 18 --ref 16 --mixed-refs --no-fast-pskip --bframes 4 --b-adapt 2 --b-pyramid --b-rdo --bime --weightb --filter -1:-1 --subme 7 --trellis 2 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --me tesa --merange 32 --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-dct-decimate --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "output" "input"

Was this intentional? If so, what is the benefit of activating this option in this specific instance?


As always, thanks for all this meticulous work!!!


Cheers! :)