MeGUI x264 presets.

[Avenger007]

2) It appears you have modified quite a few of the presets' Deblocking values. I just wanted to confirm that you didn't mean to change the "Recommended Value" for Constant Quality.


2) i modified all the -2,-1 in -1,-1 since i've seen some slight more oversharpening when psy-rdo was introduced (i've changed monitor too in that period, so it may be also due to that).
Unrestricted 1pass Constant Quality still has -2,-1.
What do you mean by oversharpening? If it's more detail then wouldn't 0,-2 or 0,-1 be better (if you're purposefully avoiding default 0,0)?

3) fast pskip is an optimization, i wont use no-fast-pskip in non insane profiles.
Double negative, consider rephrasing. :p

Additionally, merange 32 seems suitable for Unrestricted 2pass Insane.

Finally, how difficult would it be to create a quality slider in MeGUI based on these (and perhaps more fine-grained) profiles?

[JarrettH]

I just like how you've limited the choices. I'll definitely try out the new CQ profile. Maybe you want to make the new default for Keyframe Interval and Min GOP Size 240/24, but you already told me before it doesn't matter a great deal.

Heh Insane is quite funny, even Turbo is off ;p

[Sharktooth]

@avenger: no-fast-pskip is a non issue. it will stay on on Insane preset, but the other really dont need it.
i corrected the deblocking in Unrestricted CQ and will post an update. with oversharpening i mean the encoding looked too sharp (maybe the psy-rdo effect or maybe it's just due to my new display) so i decided for -1,-1 instead of -2,-1. The difference is negligible though.
concerning the quality slider bar post the idea in the megui feature requests tracker.

@JarrettH: the GOP size should be proportional to the source framerate. if you live in a NTSC country you can safely use 240/24 (for 24FPS) or 300/30 (for 30FPS)... for PAL, 250/25 (25 FPS).
The presets are not absolute, you may always adjust them for your needs. I live in a PAL country so i set 250/25 by default but no one said you cant change those values.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated. V54.

[Nightshiver]

Sweet. Thanks a bunch Sharktooth for the anime pre's. Looking good!

[LOGiC]

@JarrettH: the GOP size should be proportional to the source framerate. if you live in a NTSC country you can safely use 240/24 (for 24FPS) or 300/30 (for 30FPS)... for PAL, 250/25 (25 FPS).
The presets are not absolute, you may always adjust them for your needs. I live in a PAL country so i set 250/25 by default but no one said you cant change those values.

@Sharktooth, unfortunately I started my first MeGUI encoding try yesterday evening, which will take me about 30 hours and unfortunately I am trying to encode a 23,976fps source with 250/25 as I didn't switch this.

I am thinking about stopping the encode when I return and starting again. What may happen, if I don't have a proportional of 23,976 (240/24) ? Do you think it's worth a try and letting the machine run ?

Thanks in advance.

[Sharktooth]

it's not a big problem. using bigger GOP doesnt mean having less quality. it could even be the opposite.
Keyint = 10 x FPS and Min GOP = FPS is just a common sense rule... but not mandatory.
keep your encode, you wont notice any difference.

[Octo-puss]

Question: what's roughly the oldest kind of card to support DXVA?
Another one: if encoded with DXVA profile, I assume it will still play on PC with non-DXVA card, only it will be slow?

Gonna test tonight :) thanks for all the work.

[Sharktooth]

geforce 8x00 series and radeon HD 2x00 series (with limitations).

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated. V55.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated. V56.

[yesgrey]

Additional notes: If you dont know what preset to choose or you're uncertain, use ... or Unrestricted 2pass.

V56: Renamed Unrestricted 2pass -> Unrestricted 2pass HQ. New Unrestricted 2pass Balanced preset. More bframes tweaking.

So, I believe if we are uncertain we should use Unrestricted 2pass HQ, right? You forgot to edit the upper line...

One question: Could you give us, the uncertain ones, a measure of the quality/size difference of DXVA HD vs Unrestricted 2pass HQ? Is it only a question of hardware compatibility or does the Unrestricted mode justifies in quality the loss of hardware compatibility? If this question has an answer, I think it would be a good idea including it in the first post...

[Sharktooth]

right... if it's too slow use Unrestricted 2pass Balanced.
i edited the first post too to avoid confusion.

[LOGiC]

@Sharktooth

I just went through some profiles and noticed, that i.e. Standalone-BluRay just has Keyframe interval 24 and Min GOP Size 1 while it should be 240/24. Is this something specific in context with the bluray structure or do I need to change this ? I am just running some re-encoding tests for it.

[Sharktooth]

as i said its not mandatory to set the GOP size and keyint that way. it's just recommended. however blu-ray preset was made that way for blu-ray compatibility.
leave it as it is.

[LOGiC]

@Sharktooth

Thanks for your answer. I know that these settings are not mandatary and that I could have changed them, but I left them as they are as you definately have more experience in those things. My first testclip was great with AVC-HD-Standalone, which almost has the same settings as bluray. For testing purposes, I switched Deblock Strength and Treshold to -1 on AVCHD, which I also liked at the test-encode. I have to admit, that I am almost fully satisfied with this stuff. Thanks for your help.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated: V57.

[Rumbah]

I just wanted to know if B-frames = 2 for the PSP profile is for speed reasons.
Because I always encode my PSP movies with B-frames = 3 and I never got a problem.

[Sharktooth]

some settings were made for saving batteries.
frankly, i dont remember that one.
however, try encoding something with the PSP preset modifying b-frames from 2 to 3. if it works on the PSP i will update it.

[turbojet]

--nal-hrd along with the aforementioned --key-int 24 is another thing that's not required to get a bluray compatible output via TSMuxer, I've tested this at a local store with 5 bluray players. From what I recall these settings were manadatory to get scenarist accepting the stream, but I could be wrong. I've never used the program, way beyond my budget. The sginifigant thing, and the main reason I'm mentioning it, is both these settings hurt effeciency, a combined 10-15% larger with CRF on tests I've done.

I know sharktooth has said he doesn't want to mix the console and bluray profiles, which is understandable. But the PS3-Xbox360 presets with --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 30000 are much more optimal for compatible blurays from TSMuxer then the current ones. They also should play in xbox360 with this small change, if what I've read on the internet about xbox360 supporting up to 30 MB\s video bitrate at 1080p is true, but I cannot test this to be sure. It very well could be a more 'one size fits all' profile, and the current bluray profiles could be named scenarist bluray or something to give the user a much more optimized bluray via tsmuxer profile, but very well could get a little confusing with 2 bluray type profiles. What do you think?

On the other hand megui doesn't output blurays so many users may just opt to use a program that does. I've noticed bluray output via tsmuxer in the feature requests on sourceforge for the past few months but no replies from developers on the matter.

PS: unforutnately --trellis 1 seems to be all but meaningless now with psyRDO builds. Without anyone compiling and posting psyRDO builds that support trellis 1 Is there any reason to still use it in the profiles?

[Rumbah]

some settings were made for saving batteries.
frankly, i dont remember that one.
however, try encoding something with the PSP preset modifying b-frames from 2 to 3. if it works on the PSP i will update it.

I did at least 20 encodes with the profile and b-frames set to 3 and I got no problem at all. I did at least as much with 3 b-frames and RDO level 2 and trellis set to 2 but of course that's slower on the encoding side ;) .

[Sharktooth]

--nal-hrd along with the aforementioned --key-int 24 is another thing that's not required to get a bluray compatible output via TSMuxer, I've tested this at a local store with 5 bluray players. From what I recall these settings were manadatory to get scenarist accepting the stream, but I could be wrong. I've never used the program, way beyond my budget. The sginifigant thing, and the main reason I'm mentioning it, is both these settings hurt effeciency, a combined 10-15% larger with CRF on tests I've done.

I know sharktooth has said he doesn't want to mix the console and bluray profiles, which is understandable. But the PS3-Xbox360 presets with --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 30000 are much more optimal for compatible blurays from TSMuxer then the current ones. They also should play in xbox360 with this small change, if what I've read on the internet about xbox360 supporting up to 30 MB\s video bitrate at 1080p is true, but I cannot test this to be sure. It very well could be a more 'one size fits all' profile, and the current bluray profiles could be named scenarist bluray or something to give the user a much more optimized bluray via tsmuxer profile, but very well could get a little confusing with 2 bluray type profiles. What do you think?

On the other hand megui doesn't output blurays so many users may just opt to use a program that does. I've noticed bluray output via tsmuxer in the feature requests on sourceforge for the past few months but no replies from developers on the matter.

PS: unforutnately --trellis 1 seems to be all but meaningless now with psyRDO builds. Without anyone compiling and posting psyRDO builds that support trellis 1 Is there any reason to still use it in the profiles?
dont consider TSmuxer.
megui should be able to output blu-ray compatible streams and streams compatible with all blu-ray authoring sotwares or i will delete all blu-ray presets.
also you're not supposed to use CRF with blu-ray. if you want CRF use another preset.
TSMuxer will be added in the the future. we have no time to reply to all requests.
since psy-rdo is default on (for RDO modes), Trellis 1 is useless if psy-rdo is enabled (when subme >= 6) but it works for subme < 6.
you can still use Trellis 1 with subme 6 and 7 but you have to disable psy-rdo.

[~bT~]

Trellis 1 is useless if psy-rdo is disabled (when subme < 6).

isnt it the opposite?

when psy-rdo is enabled, trellis should be 0 or 2?

[Sharktooth]

yes. :) fixed.

[JarrettH]

Unrestricted Level, Constant Quality HQ looks very good to me. It's very close in resemblance to the original. I think I'll start using that now instead of targeting bitrates with two-pass.
There Will Be Blood [150min] with AC3 5.1 audio came to 2.25gb and Lost Highway [135min] (scaaaaryyyy) came to 1.27gb with AC3 5.1 audio

[Deinorius]

some settings were made for saving batteries.
frankly, i dont remember that one.
however, try encoding something with the PSP preset modifying b-frames from 2 to 3. if it works on the PSP i will update it. Why not use two settings for PSP?
Or least test, if B-Frames 3 eats too much Battery time?

[turbojet]

I can understand your point about must work in all bluray authoring tools, but like I said I could be completely wrong about scenarist. Would need someone with the program to confirm one way or the other. But all in all maybe it's best to wait for tsmuxer capability before really optimizing a preset for it.

I realize multi pass mode is the way to go for bluray, so let me rephrase it in the least confusing way I can think of. nal-hrd key-int 24 combined raise the average quants on a muti-pass encode by 0.5-8 relative to the quant range in use, such as size of 17 vs 18 is alot larger than size between 35 vs 36. In almost every case I can tell a visual difference.

subme => 6 and trellis 1 are in a few presets, and psyrdo isn't disabled which is why I mentioned it. Not that it technically really matters as it just kicks it back to trellis 0. Me saying trellis 1 being meaningless is more my frustration about it once being a very good option for me (higher PSNR/SSIM at often lower bitrates vs default deadzones and noticably sharper in every one of the CRF tests I've done, a few others share the same experiences) now its not an option at all due to one persons opinion. But that's a whole other matter and not for this thread. Let me rephrase it by saying trellis 1 is now meaningless for me as I see enough of an effeciency improvement of B-RDO to justify the very little slowdown.

[nurbs]

Me saying trellis 1 being meaningless is more my frustration about it once being a very good option for me (higher PSNR/SSIM at often lower bitrates vs default deadzones and noticably sharper in every one of the CRF tests I've done, a few others share the same experiences) now its not an option at all due to one persons opinion.

IIRC there is a commandline switch that disables psy-rdo and uses the conventional rdo again. If you use that you can use trellis 1.

[Sharktooth]

@turbojet: Psy-RDO is really much better than trelllis 1, higher PSNR/SSIM doesnt mean more quality. also you can use Trellis 1 for all non RDO modes (subme < 6) and you can even disable psy-rdo using --psy-rd 0 in custom commanldine options (like i did for anime presets) so you can use trellis 1 even for RDO modes (subme >= 6).
I really cant see any problems.

[Killerattacks]

I'm a total beginner regarding encoding, but iirc I read somewhere that when you're encoding anime and want high quality results, the x264 option "No fast P-skips" should be enabled (and 2-pass encoding and a high bitrate of course).
Now my question: If I want to encode anime for the ps3 using megui+x264+ the ps3&xbox360 profile this option is _not_ checked. Would using it make the resulting encode unplayable on those consoles?

[Sharktooth]

BS. the no-fast-pskip thing was a problems only ages ago. ppl continue to think it is necesary but it isnt since it was fixed. high bitrate is not necessary since anime are more compressible than movies. 2 passes is only necessary if you aim at a bitrate/filesize otherwise 1 pass CRF is better. 3 passes is only useful if the 2n pass didnt hit the requested bitrate. the "more passes, more qulity" myth is NOT TRUE (it's just a myth), some idiot spread a falsse voice and the result is ppl is wasting a lot of time encoding. Infact the 1pass CRF gives the higher quality results.
For PS3 you have to use the PS3 preset. no-fast-pskip is not necesary, as i already said, however it doesnt influence playback.

[Killerattacks]

Thanks for clearing that up :)

[Dark Shikari]

BS. the no-fast-pskip thing was a problems only ages ago. ppl continue to think it is necesary but it isnt since it was fixed. high bitrate is not necessary since anime are more compressible than movies. 2 passes is only necessary if you aim at a bitrate/filesize otherwise 1 pass CRF is better. 3 passes is onlyy useful if the 2pass encoding didnt hit the requested bitrate. the "more passes, more qulity" myth is NOT TRUE, some idiot spread a falsse voice and the result is ppl is wasting a lot of time encoding. Infact the 1pass CRF gives the higher quality results.
For PS3 you have to use the PS3 preset. no-fast-pskip is not necesary, as i already said, however it doesnt influence playback.No-fast-pskip does still give a small quality gain; any profile with other more insane settings like --me tesa and --trellis 2 should probably have it.

[Sharktooth]

infact it is there in the insane profile.

[Sharktooth]

Presets updated: V58.

[Rumbah]

I encoded a film with 2 and 3 b-frames fot the PSP and the one with 3 b-frames didn't drain the batteries more than the one with 2 b-frames.

[Sharktooth]

good, then ill keep 3 b-frames in the preset.

[Nightshiver]

Hey sharktooth, I just downloaded the zip'ed presets but can't extract them :( I'm using WinRAR and it's telling me "Unknown method in " and doesn't go on.

[rack04]

Hey sharktooth, I just downloaded the zip'ed presets but can't extract them :( I'm using WinRAR and it's telling me "Unknown method in " and doesn't go on.

Don't extract them, import them. Make sure to read the first post.

[sekhar_co]

Hay Sharktooth, i am new user of meGUI and already encode few movie.
My size of the movie is very small like that-
90MINS (+/- 10MINS) = 300MB
120MINS (+/- 10MINS) = 400MB
And source was m-HD (micro HD: HDD/Blueray encoded to 1 mkv file) which was allready encoded with meGUI and the size is 1.5 or 2.2 GB
My question is How i encode with such small size video and which profile i use to get maximum quality.

Plz try to mention MeGUI application steps. Thanks in advance :D

[fib0by]

I'm encoding a .264 video track to fit it on a DVD DL (8.5 GB). Will multiplex it with the AC3 audio track and author a BD image with tsmuxer after encoding is done. I am targeting the bitrate so that the whole thing, after authoring, fits in 8150 MB.

Anyway, technically, this is an AVCHD disk, not a Blu-Ray disk, is that right? So I should use the Standalone-AVC-HD profile, not the Standalone-Blu-ray profile. Is that correct?

I am asking because I used x264.exe settings from another application (RipBot), which are somewhat similar to the Blu-ray profile (very large buffer size and max bitrate), I authored with tsmuxer and put it on a DVD DL, and the result did not play correctly on the PS3 - the image was freezing every few seconds. I assume this was because a mismatch between the encoder settings (Blu-ray-like) and the nature of the disk I authored (AVCHD, not true 25GB Blu-ray).

[Sharktooth]

Hay Sharktooth, i am new user of meGUI and already encode few movie.
My size of the movie is very small like that-
90MINS (+/- 10MINS) = 300MB
120MINS (+/- 10MINS) = 400MB
And source was m-HD (micro HD: HDD/Blueray encoded to 1 mkv file) which was allready encoded with meGUI and the size is 1.5 or 2.2 GB
My question is How i encode with such small size video and which profile i use to get maximum quality.

Plz try to mention MeGUI application steps. Thanks in advance :D
:readguid:
presets are explained in the first post.
next time :search:

@fib0by: AVC-HD is included in the presets. use that and not Blu-Ray or settings from other apps.

[fib0by]

@fib0by: AVC-HD is included in the presets. use that and not Blu-Ray or settings from other apps.

I understand that.
I was asking: is it correct to assume that the AVC-HD preset is the right one for stuff that I put on DVD DL (even though is authored as "BD"), while the Blu-ray preset is the right one for stuff that I may put on actual BD disks?

[tetsuo55]

First i want to say thanks for all the hard work you put into the new profiles!

I have a question about the DXVA/Hardware profiles.

I don't really see any differences between the HD hardware profiles, did you use any special settings beyond the basic h264 level compliance? (All of them should basically be 1 profile)

I read something about bluray forcing some settings? in that case that settings should be common to all HD hardware profiles. or does it break another system?

I see you chose ref-frames 3 where 4 is possible, you could make this 4 in all cases for HD


--------------

I know megui is not able to do so yet, but to accurate calculate the maximum ref-frame limit on a video to video basis the following formula can be used:

IF Width="<=720" AND height="<=576" GOTO="SD"
ELSE GOTO="HD"

SD
6531840 / (Height X Width) = max number of ref frames
HD
8355840 / (Height X Width) = max number of ref frames

[Sharktooth]

the SD presets use a higher number of reference frames. the user-side difference between HD and SD presets is SD, if used for HD, the playback wont be accelerated by DXVA cards.
having more refs for SD means a slightly better compression (hence quality) but not in all cases. It will be at least equal...

however im sorry but i dont think we will implement a DXVA compliance check since DXVA is windows centric and subject to changes...

[tetsuo55]

however im sorry bud i dont think we will implement a DXVA compliance check since DXVA is windows centric and subject to changes...

Now i understand your resistance, you think DXVA has something to do with windows.
You're right in thinking so, the name is confusing.

Let me put it this way:

DXVA is the exact same thing as a Bluray player or an X360. Its just a different way of doing the same thing

They all have the same Goal: Play back level 3.1 and level 4.1 compliant files. The rules for playback are defined by the Joint Video Team (JVT).

Since the bugs in x264 have been fixed it has been perfectly capable of encoding files that work on any device that supports hardware decoding of an H264 AVC file. The only difference is the chosen container.


Although its true that DXVA has slightly loose restrictions on things like bitrate the limits we have talked about in the past never exceeded the least capable device.

Its very simple. Any and ALL devices that claim that they can play back HD level 4.1 will only do so if the file does not exceed the following limits:
-MAX bitrate of 40Mbit/s(standard says 50, but i'm not 100% sure that it works on all devices at that bitrate)
-MAX ref frame limit of: 8355840 / (Height X Width) = max number of ref frames

Its very simple. Any and ALL devices that claim that they can play back HD level 3.1 will only do so if the file does not exceed the following limits:
-MAX bitrate of 17.5 Mbit/s
-MAX ref frame limit of: 6531840 / (Height X Width) = max number of ref frames

-----------

Now if i understand correctly you have found an extra limit when the resulting file is played back on a blu-ray player. This limitations should then be valid for all hardware players (that it happens to work on a DXVA player simply means that that device is not as strict with that part of the rules)

[Sharktooth]

post a feature request in the feature request tracker but i think low priority will be assigned to it.

[tetsuo55]

okay cool.

And as far as your presets are concerned. All Hd and SD decoders can and probably should have a single preset as they al act the same (aside from any bugs that might be present)

[shon3i]

I basic agree with tetsuo55 about hardware/bluray profiles, should be one for HD one for SD.

For SD Level 3.0 and 3.1 are fine.

@tetsuo55, your calculation for level 3.1 are wrong.

MaxDPB for level 3.1 is 6750 so when that multiply with 1024 and divide with 1.5 (YV12) you get 4608000 so calculation for max refs are 46080007/(w*h)=max refs, VBV for level 3.1 should be --vbv-maxrate 14000 --vbv-bufsize 14000 for main and --vbv-maxrate 17920 for high profile.

Level 3.0 are more compact for SD video,IIRC all comercial encoders put Level 3.0 on first place, but aslo depends from many factors. I saw some encodes with level 3.2 and working normal on standalones.

[Sharktooth]

nope, as i already said, SD presets has a higher number of refs and if SD preset is used for HD material DXVA wont work.
also levels are different. there are precise specs for HD and SD... so 2 different presets.
everything exceeding the SD res should be encoded with the HD preset.