New Decrypting Method

[mc2man]

for the hell of it just tried smartripper in wine to rip the whole disk. Backup mode gets you everything but 02_1.vob. (02_5 looks ok since the block errors are after the video) In movie mode you can pickup the full 02_1.vob to paste in.
Vlc player is good for unlocking but very unreliable for playback of the orig., rip, or any changes. Better to rip or send to a partition you can access from win.

[SamuriHL]

I got a full backup working using nothing but DVD Decrypter and IFOEdit. Works great, no more protection. :)

[mc2man]

@SamuriHL
your 100% right
i learned 2 really good things here - how to use ifoedit and patience - All my attempts with ifoedit failed because i thought it was hanging after correcting the vobu's - just have to wait it out.
Same goes for dvdd -you have to wait awhile for it to get thru that
_12 ifo
I don't know how long dvdd took to rip smartripper in wine takes about 15 min.

[SamuriHL]

I don't have access to a linux box with a DVD drive at home so that wasn't an option for me. (I'm assuming linux in a VM running under Windows is not exactly what they had in mind on this one. :) )

It wasn't overly difficult to deal with this one though. Basically I just used DVDD's File mode, ripped all the IFOs and VOBs for all VTS' except for 2 and 12. 12 is bogus and is why DVDD takes forever to scan the disc and 2 is the main movie. Once I had all the VTS' except the movie ripped, I used DVDD in IFO processing mode to rip just the main movie VTS into the same directory. This will give you a backup that plays fine except for the very beginning of the movie. Since that's not overly acceptable, you just need to use IFOEdit to fix VTS2 and you're then good to go. Sounds complicated but in reality it's very easy and completely defeats this protection. For those that are having problems playing it on their player, give this a try and it should fix it up for you.

[blutach]

I dunno what all the hoo-hah is about this. People are reporting all over the place that it can be ripped. And the scheme is hardly new. See http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=99761

Regards

[SamuriHL]

Well, you read the post on CDFREAKS that irritated me. :) I realize this protection is nothing special, but, I wasn't about to wait for Slysoft or FengTao to update their software before tackling it. I never do. And yes, I think you're correct about where this protection originally came from. Real nice. I'm sure we'll see updates soon enough once they get their discs to play with. In the meantime, I've got a working backup that plays anywhere so I'm good to go.

[blutach]

No need to let trolls irritate you SamuriHL.

But given this disk had difficulties playing, I suspect the scheme will go back to the drawing board. DMCA or no, I do believe consumers have a right to be able to play their DVDs!

Regards

[HyperHacker]

As a side note on smartripper if anyone wants to fool around with it on the full disk just run it in linux under wine. You'll be able to parse all the ifos ect. While it will fast skip the errors in 02_01.vob in file and disk mode you can see the disk as it really isReally? Sounds like some sort of autorun entry might be interfering with the program on Windows then...

[setarip_old]

@blutachPeople are reporting all over the place that it can be ripped.If you mean other than here at Doom9's Forum, would you please be good enough to provide links to these reports?

[mc2man]

while this " protection " has/can be defeated in several ways in terms of getting a full working copy on your hdd, I think almost all of the mis structure is still very much in play. As worthless as the endeavor would be (in terms of this title) if you can't run it thru your favorite prog.(s) and fit it on a dvd5, then it's still an effective method. I'm watching rb try to process it now and I somewhat doubt the output is going to be any good. Maybe I made a mistake "fixing" the rip, I don't know other than it plays perfectly on pc.
It looks like rb is going to create at least 3000 segments
I'll check back on it in the morning

[blutach]

DVD Rebuilder (http://dvd-rb.dvd2go.org/) will create 1 segment per cell. If there are hundreds or thousands of tiny cells, remove them with PgcEdit or the like.

Regards

[SamuriHL]

No need to let trolls irritate you SamuriHL.

But given this disk had difficulties playing, I suspect the scheme will go back to the drawing board. DMCA or no, I do believe consumers have a right to be able to play their DVDs!

Regards

You got that right!! This protection is quite ridiculous in how far it goes to corrupt the DVD standard. My guess is that if they tried this on a more popular title in region 1, they'd get a LOT of complaints about it not playing.

[SamuriHL]

while this " protection " has/can be defeated in several ways in terms of getting a full working copy on your hdd, I think almost all of the mis structure is still very much in play. As worthless as the endeavor would be (in terms of this title) if you can't run it thru your favorite prog.(s) and fit it on a dvd5, then it's still an effective method. I'm watching rb try to process it now and I somewhat doubt the output is going to be any good. Maybe I made a mistake "fixing" the rip, I don't know other than it plays perfectly on pc.
It looks like rb is going to create at least 3000 segments
I'll check back on it in the morning

I can run mine through any compression program without problems. However, in order to do that, more than just DVDD and IFOEdit are required.

[mc2man]

I thought I'd make a couple of final comments even though I might be wrong. I made and burned a movie only (based on setarip_old's method) that works fine in standalones . I also made and burned a full disk on a dl that plays on standalones as good or in 1 case better than the orig. The only changes were to make pgc's 2 and 3 in vts2... into dummies and remove last vts
That being said I still think the protection is not overcome in terms of passing a rip on for processing (shrink, rb ,ect)
If you exclude pgcs 2 and 3 (from main title) from the rip I can't see your getting the full movie that"ll play right from start to finish.
If you remove unreferenced material from the main title same thing.
I would actually venture to guess quite the opposite - you"ll need to reference it somehow instead

[Wombler]

I see Slysoft has adopted an approach similar to 'PathPlayer' with the introduction of it's 'AI Scanner' in the latest AnyDVD beta.

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=228665

That's obviously been the reason for the lengthy delay between updates and it's great to have another option open with regard to the latest discs.


Wombler

[SamuriHL]

I see Slysoft has adopted an approach similar to 'PathPlayer' with the introduction of it's 'AI Scanner' in the latest AnyDVD beta.

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=228665

That's obviously been the reason for the lengthy delay between updates and it's great to have another option open with regard to the latest discs.


Wombler

While this is true, it should be noted that the current beta was intended to be a closed beta and as such has quite a few bugs that need to be fixed. Slysoft never intended it to be released to the public at this stage. That being said, the testing I've done with it has been quite good. There are definitely some issues that need to be fixed, and they are in the process of doing so, but, when this is released and finalized, it's going to be incredibly powerful.

[Wombler]

While this is true, it should be noted that the current beta was intended to be a closed beta and as such has quite a few bugs that need to be fixed.

That's why I linked to the full thread so that people would be aware of this.

I probably should have mentioned it as well though.


Slysoft never intended it to be released to the public at this stage. That being said, the testing I've done with it has been quite good. There are definitely some issues that need to be fixed, and they are in the process of doing so, but, when this is released and finalized, it's going to be incredibly powerful.

Yep, it's great to see the tide turning in our favour for a once.:)


Wombler

[SamuriHL]

Yes indeed. Once it's done there's a good chance it'll simply work for whatever nasty perversion of the DVD standard they come up with. It's quite impressive. The beta testers are madly testing every disc we can get our hands on so hopefully when it's released there won't be any unforeseen bugs. :)

[Wombler]

Yes indeed. Once it's done there's a good chance it'll simply work for whatever nasty perversion of the DVD standard they come up with. It's quite impressive. The beta testers are madly testing every disc we can get our hands on so hopefully when it's released there won't be any unforeseen bugs. :)

Well I wouldn't like to preclude the chance of any new protections coming along but I think that it will certainly decrease the frequency of updates required and that definitely has to be a good thing.


Wombler

[SamuriHL]

Well I wouldn't like to preclude the chance of any new protections coming along but I think that it will certainly decrease the frequency of updates required and that definitely has to be a good thing.


Wombler

One would hope so. I can't wait to see what Slysoft has cooked up next. I don't know when a new version will be out. I'm sure people will love it.

[Wombler]

One would hope so. I can't wait to see what Slysoft has cooked up next. I don't know when a new version will be out. I'm sure people will love it.

Well if they're that far down the beta testing route I'd expect it to be fairly soon.

I'm interested myself to see how good it is and how well it copes over the next few months.

My bet is that it will far superior to anything they've produced before and that's saying something.


Wombler

[SamuriHL]

Well if they're that far down the beta testing route I'd expect it to be fairly soon.

I'm interested myself to see how good it is and how well it copes over the next few months.

My bet is that it will far superior to anything they've produced before and that's saying something.


Wombler

Yea, I'm not really sure where they are with the beta testing. I've heard rumors about what they're working on and it sounds really promising. I played with the beta and found a bunch of issues so one can only hope they're working on fixing those. You really got to hand it to them...they work hard to keep their customers happy. I can't wait til they release a public beta or final release of this one!

[Wombler]

Yea, I'm not really sure where they are with the beta testing. I've heard rumors about what they're working on and it sounds really promising. I played with the beta and found a bunch of issues so one can only hope they're working on fixing those. You really got to hand it to them...they work hard to keep their customers happy. I can't wait til they release a public beta or final release of this one!

When you say 'issues' were they fairly serious things or just minor bugs?


Wombler

[SamuriHL]

When you say 'issues' were they fairly serious things or just minor bugs?


Wombler

I ran the leaked beta against a bunch of discs I have just to see how good it is and found that there are definitely problems with the beta. IOW, it was DEFINITELY not ready to be released to the public. I'm told they're working on fixing those issues now so I have no idea when a public beta or final release will be out, but, it'll definitely be worth the wait. But there was a lot of regression problems in the leaked beta...things that used to work fine with old versions could no longer be ripped with the beta. So, it's a work in progress and they know about all the issues. It's a shame it was leaked before it was ready but it shows what they have in mind...and it's quite impressive.

[Wombler]

I ran the leaked beta against a bunch of discs I have just to see how good it is and found that there are definitely problems with the beta. IOW, it was DEFINITELY not ready to be released to the public. I'm told they're working on fixing those issues now so I have no idea when a public beta or final release will be out, but, it'll definitely be worth the wait. But there was a lot of regression problems in the leaked beta...things that used to work fine with old versions could no longer be ripped with the beta. So, it's a work in progress and they know about all the issues. It's a shame it was leaked before it was ready but it shows what they have in mind...and it's quite impressive.

Ahh right so maybe there's a bit more work to be done than I thought.

It'll be worth the wait though.:)

I think the leaked beta will actually work in their favour as it's generated a lot of discussion about their product and created a good deal of eager anticipation that wouldn't necessarily have been there.

Added to that they've probably got a lot more feedback from unintended beta testers than they'd have got from a smaller group and it begins to look like a shrewd move.

Maybe Slysoft will think about doing it this way in the future, I don't know.

It's good PR for their product though and it's definitely got me hooked.:)


Wombler

[SamuriHL]

Ahh right so maybe there's a bit more work to be done than I thought.

It'll be worth the wait though.:)

I think the leaked beta will actually work in their favour as it's generated a lot of discussion about their product and created a good deal of eager anticipation that wouldn't necessarily have been there.

Added to that they've probably got a lot more feedback from unintended beta testers than they'd have got from a smaller group and it begins to look like a shrewd move.

Maybe Slysoft will think about doing it this way in the future, I don't know.

It's good PR for their product though and it's definitely got me hooked.:)


Wombler

You could be right, but, I know for a fact they were not happy about the leak. However, one of the private beta testers simply made a mistake in posting it. And it does seem like the "damage" has been largely non-existent. People now know that the reason Slysoft was silent on titles like Blade HoC and others was that they were working on the AI Scanner function that will hopefully deal with all copy protections. And yes, since it was leaked, a lot of us have been playing around with it giving them some feedback. The problem is that some people expected assistance with the beta when things didn't work which is a bit much to ask for...especially when the beta wasn't intended for release. So that part is probably frustrating. Nonetheless, most of the things I've read from people have been positive. Since I'm a developer I *understand* the concept of what BETA means and so I had no qualms at all about trying it out. Others expecting this leaked beta to be as polished as other "public" betas will be disappointed. The problems I encountered were rather severe in terms of discs failing. And those are discs that shouldn't have failed. Blade HoC...no problem except with an issue found by someone where the video gets jumpy when the disc is opened by DVD Shrink directly. But, good Lord...*YOU CAN OPEN THE DISC DIRECTLY WITH SHRINK!!!* That in and of itself is amazing. When the bugs are worked out, think about being able to handle ARccOS, RipGuard, ProtectDVD Video, etc on the fly so that even Shrink can open the disc directly without problems. AMAZING!!!

[setarip_old]

@Wombler and SamuriHL

I'm sure interested members are already aware that a new version of AnyDVD will eventually be released, at which time we'll all know its actual capabilities, however:

Forgive me for noting this, but during the last dozen or more posts, you've hijacked this thread and turned it into speculation and "cheerleading" back and forth between yourselves, for a thusfar non-existent program.

Just a friendly suggestion from a fellow poster, with no ill will intended: Perhaps such conversations are better suited for PMs?

[SamuriHL]

Forgive me for noting this, but during the last dozen or more posts, you've hijacked this thread and turned it into speculation and "cheerleading" back and forth between yourselves, for a thusfar non-existent program.


Was not my intention. I'll drop any discussion of AnyDVD from this thread.

[blutach]

@setarip_old

I find the discussion very on topic about new decrypting methods (and by corollary how software comanies are responding to them).

Even more to the point, it is Wombler's thread and no forum rule has been broken. To admonish him (and SamuriHL) for discussing items of interest to him in that thread is illogical.

Regards

[SamuriHL]

Thanks, blutach. The reason I brought up AnyDVD was because it was implementing a new decryption method. However, if people feel I'm hijacking the thread, I will refrain from commenting further.

[blutach]

I don't think that at all. Please continue.

Regards

[SamuriHL]

Ok, thanks. Nothing new until we get a public beta or final release I think.

[Wombler]

@setarip_old

I find the discussion very on topic about new decrypting methods (and by corollary how software comanies are responding to them).

Even more to the point, it is Wombler's thread and no forum rule has been broken. To admonish him (and SamuriHL) for discussing items of interest to him in that thread is illogical.

Regards

Thanks for that Blutach.

I'm a relatively new user here but I appreciate and abide by any guidance recieved from the mods. on any of the forums I frequent.

I'd hate to think I'm annoying other users or breaking forum rules and your proactive response is reassuring as I've only just read setarip_old's post.

If I ever inadvertantly stray over the line though please let me know as that is most definitely not my intention.
:thanks:

Regards,


Wombler

[Wombler]

@Wombler and SamuriHL

I'm sure interested members are already aware that a new version of AnyDVD will eventually be released, at which time we'll all know its actual capabilities, however:

Forgive me for noting this, but during the last dozen or more posts, you've hijacked this thread and turned it into speculation and "cheerleading" back and forth between yourselves, for a thusfar non-existent program.

Just a friendly suggestion from a fellow poster, with no ill will intended: Perhaps such conversations are better suited for PMs?


This thread is not restricted to discussion of AnyDVD and was originally started in relation to the similar methods employed by DVDFab. It just happens to be the case that recent comments have been in this direction.

I must admit I'm a bit bemused at being accused of hijacking my own thread but I was merely replying to whomever made a response to my thread.

The fact that recently Samuri_HL chose to participate and others did not is in my mind somewhat irrelevant as the thread is open to anyone for reply.

You are more than free to add comments you feel are relevant to this thread and indeed I would welcome this from anyone as this is inherently why it exists.

Users should not be made to feel reluctant to post when they haven't flaunted any forum rules and I'm surprised and disappointed that you've chosen to criticise unjustly.

Ultimately this is a matter for yourself however I do respect your right to your own opinion.

I'm very grateful to Doom9 and for providing this forum where people can collectively discuss such issues and I feel it would detract from the forum if on topic stuff has to start going to PM.


Regards,


Wombler

[setarip_old]

As I said - and I don't know that I could have made it any clearer:Just a friendly suggestion from a fellow poster, with no ill will intended... I made no implication of "authority", as I'm obviously not a moderator at the Doom9 Forums - just an expression of my interpretation/opinion of the then-most-recent dozen or so consecutive posts. The fact that moderator "blutach" doesn't share my opinion is not surprising.

(Just as a point of information, the fact that one person starts a thread doesn't preclude the possibility that the very same person can participate in "hijacking" it by altering the topic of discussion)

BTW - I guess we'll soon hear whether any new protection schemes have reared their ugly heads on this day of new releases (Which include a Disney release) ;>}

[Wombler]

As I said - and I don't know that I could have made it any clearer:I made no implication of "authority", as I'm obviously not a moderator at the Doom9 Forums - just an expression of my interpretation/opinion of the then-most-recent dozen or so consecutive posts. The fact that moderator "blutach" doesn't share my opinion is not surprising.

(Just as a point of information, the fact that one person starts a thread doesn't preclude the possibility that the very same person can participate in "hijacking" it by altering the topic of discussion)

BTW - I guess we'll soon hear whether any new protection schemes have reared their ugly heads on this day of new releases (Which include a Disney release) ;>}

I read your post in its entirety, not just your disclaimer. :)

But I've no wish to turn this in to an argument and in fact it's the exact opposite.

No harm done and I'm happy to get back to discussing the topic in question.

Having said that though I think we've reached a temporary hiatus anyway and as Samuri_HL has said there won't be much to report until the next AnyDVD beta.

Who knows what will happen with other programs though in the meantime.


Wombler

[Harn7Race]

@setarip_old

Au contraire! Rule 6 strongly shows that we respect the rights of copyright holders.

Please do not make meaningless posts - observe rule 3.

Regards

Gday Blu

You've mentioned specific rule numbers.
Could you please give me the links to where these numbered rules are ?

Tah

[ojdidit]

Harn:

Take a look at the forum subjects screen (back click once) at the top of the page click FORUM RULES

[Harn7Race]

:thanks:

Ps. I'd hate to get on old Blu's bad side.

:)

[blutach]

A link to forum rules is at the top of every post and forum.

Now, this very interesting thread IS starting to meander OT. No-one's on my bad side, except the forces of evil.

Regards

[SamuriHL]

Let's get this discussion back on track even though there's nothing really new to post.

First, we have RipIt4Me which as we all know is no longer supported. That being said, the scanning technology it employs is so powerful that until recently it could handle ALL known protections. It's only been stopped by ProtectDVD Video's massive corruption of the UDF file system. This makes it so RipIt4Me can't scan the disc properly. Nonetheless, this should be considered the grandfather of scanner based copying programs.

Next up we have PathPlayer that's built into DVDFab. Recently it has been changed so that if the "use when necessary" option is selected, it will attempt to do the disc without it. If an error is encountered, it enables the PathPlayer engine and restarts the copy. This should speed things up when PathPlayer isn't necessary. However, when it IS necessary it should be a pretty powerful copying solution. I believe this technology also scans the titlesets and only tries to copy valid PGCs thereby bypassing any copy protection found. I BELIEVE I saw recently in the changelogs that it's no longer relying on the windows file system to read the UDF file system on the disc. This should allow it to handle ProtectDVD Video a lot better in theory one would imagine. All in all, this seems like a very powerful technology.

Finally we have a near rewrite of AnyDVD to use the AI Scanner technology as they're calling it. Since we only know a little bit from the leaked beta, there's not much to really say here. When it's enabled it scans the disc for all playable titlesets and makes only the playable titlesets available to any program that's accessing the disc. This should allow things like DVD Shrink to access discs directly that couldn't be done before. That's REALLY sweet IMO. We will need to wait for a public beta or finalized release before we can really see what this technology is capable of. No one knows when that'll be, but, the little demonstration we've seen from this current beta is HIGHLY impressive.

Those are the programs I know about. There are others out there such as DVD95Copy but I don't know anything about them. If anyone else has knowledge of other programs that are using a scanner like technology for backups, I'd be quite interested to hear about them.

[blutach]

@SamuriHL

Without wishing to advise Fab or Slysoft, scanning the disk beforehand can get you only so far. Yes, you might get a clue from seeing PGCs with all those uncalled cell commands that the disk has advanced protection and decide to turn the scanner on (there are other upfront tests that can be made, to be sure).

However, just focussing on pathplaying/AI for the minute, an upfront scan alone of menu buttons (found in the navpacks of menu VOBs) and PGCs (found in the IFOs) is bound to fail where menus are authored into the titles domain (which is not at all unusual, espeically for special features). Then, the program is required to scan all the VOBs first to find BOVs and so build a picture of the full disk. This can only be done after the VOBs have been ripped.

Otherwise, if I am a developer of protection systems, all I'd do is pop the menus in titles. The (upfront) scanner would come along and find no titles referenced. Therefore, scanning needs to be post rip (as Fab has now discovered in its latest beta).

Another thing that scanners can find issues with is LOTS (and I mean thousands) of buttons as seen in game DVDs and multi button sets (where the buttons change over time the PGC is played back). The followers in RipIt4Me's footsteps are also going to need to overcome this hurdle as the scan could end up taking longer than the rip, even on very powerful PCs.

Regards

[SamuriHL]

Interesting information. Thank God I'm not developing any of those technologies. :D I'm not entirely sure how the AI Scanner code FULLY works as I have no relation with Slysoft at all. I'm sure there's probably more to it than my simple explanation. But you do point out some interesting problems that need to be overcome. It'll be very very interesting to see how Slysoft deals with this. I don't expect either of these technologies to be flawless their first time out. :) That is apparent with both the first incarnation of both PathPlayer and the leaked AnyDVD beta. However, I suspect that over time both technologies will continue to improve as they are challenged by new protections. This is just a new escalation. Although, R4M has done QUITE well up until recently, so, it CAN be done. :)

[setarip_old]

It seems to me, that based on the recent successful updates of some rippers that are now apparently able to deal with the overall concept of "ProtectDVD Video", it will be quite some time before yet another new concept protection scheme shows up for DVDs.

1) Bad/Protected sectoring has been addressed.

2) Fake .IFOs, .BUPs, and .VOBs have been addressed.

3) False directory entries have been addressed.

4) DVD-only players don't have the "intelligence" (keys) built-in as do HD or BluRay players.

I'm certainly not an expert in the field of encrypting DVDs but, based on the above, it may just be that we've seen the last of the DVD protection concepts.

Therefore, at least for the near term, I can't see any direct or immediate additional benefit arising from the creation of either "PathPlayer" or "AI Scanner". The programs incorporating these methods may just prove to be alternatives to already-existing solutions.

Perhaps we'll all smile if, based on the most recent change regarding "PathPlayer" (Will not be activated unless "normal" ripping fails), it never has to be activated ;>}

[SamuriHL]

I think the theory is that neither want to have to update their respective programs every time a new version of a protection is released. All programs had to be updated for Blade HoC even though they all had dealt with ProtectDVD Video before. It was a new variation. The PathPlayer and AI Scanner options *THEORETICALLY* could handle the new variant of the protection without having to wait for the companies to update it. That's how I see it anyway.

[setarip_old]

even though they all had dealt with ProtectDVD Video beforeI don't believe that's correct (based on the posts at this forum)...

[SamuriHL]

I don't believe that's correct (based on the posts at this forum)...

No? I thought all the major rippers dealt with the German version of this insipid protection, but, I could certainly be wrong. I know AnyDVD did at the very least.

[setarip_old]

Based on a quick search that I just performed, it appears that you are correct...

[SamuriHL]

Based on a quick search that I just performed, it appears that you are correct...

Thanks for checking on that. I wasn't positive but I thought they had all dealt with it before. What this means is that variations will need updated programs unless PathPlayer and/or AI Scanner technologies can be perfected to deal with them automatically. It's a lofty goal, as Blu pointed out, but, it'll get better over time.

[setarip_old]

Actually, great encouragement should be taken from the fact that not only did DVD95Copy properly handle "Blade - House of Chthon", it also properly handled "Full of It", which contained a different variation of the "protection we love to hate".

I say it's different because "Full of It" gagged RipIt4Me completely, whereas "Blade - House of Chthon" "only" generated a ton of "Unable to copy .IFO VTS_xx_xx" messages...

The fact that DVD95Copy can process a variation that didn't exist when the program was last updated indicates to me that DVD95Copy's present methodology is perhaps thorough enough to address the entire capability of this type of protection