New Sharpening Function from Didée -'SeeSaw'

[Boulder]

You've had some luck there. The idx's are a real swamp what comes to multithreading (probably one big reason for MVTools not being MT-compliant). Did you do a binary compare?

Try encoding the whole clip and see what happens.

[bkman]

Did you do a binary compare?
Just an md5sum, but I trust it ;)
Try encoding the whole clip and see what happens.
That would take way too long. Do you have a dual-core to try it on?

[Boulder]

I've tried running MVTools stuff in two threads and I know it doesn't work. I asked tsp about it and already posted his response. It seems I'm just banging my head against the wall here but to save Didée and Fizick (and others as well) a few bug reports, I still say "don't use multithreading for any MVTools-related thingies".

[bkman]

Maybe you should just say: Use with caution! :p

[shaolin95]

Levels; Input 0-235, Output 0-255
I was playing with that a few days ago but doesnt it creat blooming for you? I also saw some defaul Didee setups there.

[Jeremy Duncan]

I use Levels like that because it helps. I know that it won't work for every monitor, but it gives mine that extra "Pep".

I didn't understand what you said about Dideé ?
Say again, please.

[shaolin95]

If you look inside the LEVELS option where it says MODE: there are some named after Didee.

[Jeremy Duncan]

Yeah, I see it.

[Didée]

Oh, you're talking about those modes for levels in ffdshow?

Never mind, don't use them. Seems that Milan misinterpreted(?) the LUT expressions from within those YLevelsX() functions, because:

In ffdshow, YLevelsG/S/C do the exact opposite of what I intended them to do ...

[shaolin95]

Thanks Didee! BTW, since I rarely have the chance to "talk" to you, let me say a big THANKS! You are a freaking Genius not to mention the reason I cant sleep due to my addiction of tweaking Seesaw, Limited Sharpen etc :-)
So, let me ask you about levels, do you think I should input 16-235 and output 0-255 or is that better left untouched for real time dvd playback? Same goes for colormatrix, do I need it for dvd playback?
Sorry to bother :-)

[foxyshadis]

Colormatrix (used properly) can't hurt, it can only help; as long as the d2v is passed in it won't accidentally butcher your colors.

Use the levels if you need to - if it's too grey, usually, or rarely in reverse if it's blown out. It depends on your video input and output more than anything.

Use HDRAGC if you want blooming/gain-corection/etc, or the simpler Bloom filter for just that. Crowbarring levels into doing it is fast but low-quality, blows out all the whites and blacks.

[frednerk33]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=866565#post866565
MT("backward_vec2 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = true, delta = 2, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
backward_vec1 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = true, delta = 1, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
forward_vec1 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = false, delta = 1, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
forward_vec2 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = false, delta = 2, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
SeeSaw( NRlimit=4, NRlimit2=5, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=9, Spower=9, Szp=16, sootheT=80, bias=40 )",3)

This one can use MT. It goes from 3fps not using MT, to 14fps using MT.

Er, please help me understand, isn't there a line or 2 missing here ? eg in relation to
a = last.MVDegrain2( backward_vec1, forward_vec1, backward_vec2, forward_vec2, thSAD=400, idx=1 )
b = a.DeGrainMedian( mode=1 )
SeeSaw( a, b, NRlimit=4, NRlimit2=5, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=9, Spower=9, Szp=16, sootheT=80, bias=40 )
specifcally, something which uses the stuff produced by the MVAnalyse's ? (ie what is using the vectors and giving SeeSaw the 2 clips ?)

[Jeremy Duncan]

MT("backward_vec2 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = true, delta = 2, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
backward_vec1 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = true, delta = 1, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
forward_vec1 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = false, delta = 1, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
forward_vec2 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = false, delta = 2, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
SeeSaw( NRlimit=4, NRlimit2=5, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=9, Spower=9, Szp=16, sootheT=80, bias=40 )",3)

This one can use MT. It goes from 3fps not using MT, to 14fps using MT.

Er, please help me understand, isn't there a line or 2 missing here ? eg in relation to
a = last.MVDegrain2( backward_vec1, forward_vec1, backward_vec2, forward_vec2, thSAD=400, idx=1 )
b = a.DeGrainMedian( mode=1 )
SeeSaw( a, b, NRlimit=4, NRlimit2=5, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=9, Spower=9, Szp=16, sootheT=80, bias=40 )
specifcally, something which uses the stuff produced by the MVAnalyse's ? (ie what is using the vectors and giving SeeSaw the 2 clips ?)

Your right.
Here's the full code.


backward_vec2 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = true, delta = 2, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
backward_vec1 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = true, delta = 1, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
forward_vec1 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = false, delta = 1, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
forward_vec2 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = false, delta = 2, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
a = last.MVDegrain2( backward_vec1, forward_vec1, backward_vec2, forward_vec2, thSAD=400, idx=1 )

b = a.DeGrainMedian( mode=1 )
SeeSaw( a, b, NRlimit=4, NRlimit2=5, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=9, Spower=9, Szp=16, sootheT=80, bias=40 )

You can put this as well.


SetMTmode(2,2)
backward_vec2 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = true, delta = 2, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
backward_vec1 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = true, delta = 1, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
forward_vec1 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = false, delta = 1, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
forward_vec2 = last.MVAnalyse( isb = false, delta = 2, pel = 2, overlap=4, sharp=1, idx = 1 )
a = last.MVDegrain2( backward_vec1, forward_vec1, backward_vec2, forward_vec2, thSAD=400, idx=1 )

b = a.DeGrainMedian( mode=1 )
SeeSaw( a, b, NRlimit=4, NRlimit2=5, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=9, Spower=9, Szp=16, sootheT=80, bias=40 )

It works, but is no faster.

Boulder said to leave out the a clip. I wasn't sure what that meant, exactly. So I tried that quoted script.

[Boulder]

I don't understand why you denoise both clips..the a-clip is supposed to be the untouched one and b-clip the denoised. Oh well, each one to his choice :)

I told you to leave out the a-clip from the MT section because MVTools still isn't multithread friendly. You are just asking for trouble sooner or later if you use SetMTMode or MT with MVTools.

[frednerk33]

I don't understand why you denoise both clips..the a-clip is supposed to be the untouched one and b-clip the denoised. Oh well, each one to his choice :)
Good question... Pookie must have had a reason which I hope can be subject to elucidation :) Original Pookie source: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=862199#post862199

[Boulder]

Hmm..the amount of grain must have been quite excessive. I've never had to use MVDegrain2 on any other material than analog captures :D

[frednerk33]

Well, yes, the sciipt came from
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=865865#post865865 which dealt with significantly noisy sources with apparently great results... would that explain the denoising of both clips ? Visual results on http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=865853#post865853

[fight2win]

can this filter be used in megui x264 encoding, or is it just for xvid, also, should limited sharpen be also used with seesaw, or one is enough???

[Boulder]

It can be used with any encode.

[fight2win]

here is my script, can someone please tell me how to modify this script in order to use sharpening/detaling:

DGDecode_mpeg2source("E:\CHRONICLES_OF_RIDDICK\VTS_01_1.d2v",info=3)
ColorMatrix(hints=true)
#blank deinterlace line
crop( 0, 60, 0, -64)

LanczosResize(720,288) # Lanczos (Sharp)
#denoise

[Pookie]

Good question... Pookie must have had a reason which I hope can be subject to elucidation :) Original Pookie source: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=862199#post862199

It is the source that dictates your script settings. On very grainy sources, you might have to hit your video with a one-two punch --> filter the lows with one degrainer, filter the highs with another (or call the same filter twice with different settings to denoise the high and low frequencies). In this case, I liked the visual combination of MVdegrain and DegrainMedian processed through SeeSaw. Normally, two denoisers on a source can result in a blurry or oversmoothed target. The thing I like most about SeeSaw is the ability to retain sharpness and stability despite turning up the denoiser strength (within reason :p ).

You can see below that adding DegrainMedian(mode=1) took care of the high frequency artifacts that MVdegrain alone wasn't processing.

Your source might not need more than one degrainer, in which case you can use the "traditional" a=last and b=a.yourdegrainer() . If you like the end result, that's all that matters. :D

How about we use the same 5 second clip to have a point of reference - 20MB Mpeg2 - 23.976 fps - Big, crunchy noise with chroma grain.

http://www.bigupload.com/d=009B43FB

alternate link(rapidshare is faster)

http://rapidshare.de/files/30651466/grainy.zip.html

Here's MVdegrain on the Left. MVdegrain PLUS DegrainMedian(mode=1) on the right. Looks like chroma and high frequency noise is being filtered.

Frame 54

http://fileserver2.jpghosting.com/images/tn_54_77560ec9439c9aee55e27a7119086b12.png (http://fileserver2.jpghosting.com/images/54_77560ec9439c9aee55e27a7119086b12.png)

[frednerk33]

Thanks Pookie. Took your lead and tried to compare various combinations of filters with SeeSaw, on a bit of your grainy source clip.
Poor test script in http://users.tpg.com.au/walshdcw/z-seesaw.avs Tests:
1. MVDegrain2+DeGrainMedian(mode=1)
2. MVDegrain2+FFT3DFilter(sigma=3, plane=4, bt=3, sharpen=0, interlaced=false)
3. MVDegrain2+RemoveGrain(mode=17)
4. MVDegrain2+FFT3DFilter(sigma=3.5, plane=4, bt=3, sharpen=0, interlaced=false)
5. MVDegrain2+Convolution3D(0,32,128,32,128,10,0)
6. MVDegrain2+Convolution3D(1,32,128,32,128,10,0)
7. Convolution3D(0,32,128,32,128,10,0)
8. Convolution3D(1,32,128,32,128,10,0)

Results (9.6Mb .mpv) in http://users.tpg.com.au/walshdcw/z-seesaw.mpv - I'm not too sure I'm comfortable with any of these results (look at the sky)... any more suggestions for heavy noise removal & SeeSaw (usually analogue sources) ? Particuarly as shown in incredible snaps per http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=865849#post865849 Unfussed too much by FPS (or Didee type SPF :) ) processing time (want to DVD-ize family PAL-VHS of kids growing up).

References:
Original thread & pics (is "Neat Video" worth the money ?) http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=865853#post865853
Method referred to here (Noisy Witness) http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=865865#post865865
Pookie test here (New Sharpening Function from Didée -'SeeSaw') http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=867628#post867628

PS, any new news on halo removers for strong analog capture halos ? eg updates to, or daughters/sons of, dehalo_alpha

[Jeremy Duncan]

here is my script, can someone please tell me how to modify this script in order to use sharpening/detaling:

DGDecode_mpeg2source("E:\CHRONICLES_OF_RIDDICK\VTS_01_1.d2v",info=3)
ColorMatrix(hints=true)
#blank deinterlace line
crop( 0, 60, 0, -64)

LanczosResize(720,288) # Lanczos (Sharp)
#denoise


I don't know. I don't encode, I only use realtime.

[shaolin95]

I don't know. I don't encode, I only use realtime.
Jeremy your latest scripts are very nice. Much more detailed than mine and with less moire and artifacts. Not sure how you do it since your strenght is kept mostly at 1.0 or 1.4 so obvi ously you know something I dont. Anyway, the only problem is a bit too much noise so I took the median denoiser and moved it to the last step of the script after seesaw and it seems to be a slightly cleaner without any compromises. Are you doing any luma sharpen when resizing?
Regards

[Jeremy Duncan]

No Luma Sharpening. Please post the script your talking about.
To lower the noise. Set these lower. SdampHi=10, Szp=10.
You'll lose resolution though, as this is as low as they could go while keeping the detail in the picture.

[shaolin95]

I am using this one:
MT("a = last
b = a.SPresso(limit=0, limitC=4, bias=0, biasC=40, RGmode=1, RGmodeC=17)
SeeSaw(a, b, NRlimit=2, NRlimit2=1, Sstr=1.4, Slimit=16, Spower=4, Sdamplo=6, SdampHi=15, Szp=16, bias=50, sootheT=1)
DeGrainMedian(limitY=0,limitUV=4,mode=1)",3)

I am very happy how it looks so the noise is not as bad as I said in my previous post. I dont want to lose resolution in any case.

[Jeremy Duncan]

I've updated the script I posted for SeeSaw.
Have a look. Link (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=115144)

The one you've just posted isn't as effective.

[Jeremy Duncan]

Setting to SdampHi=10, Szp=10. You'll lose no resolution ,but the noise will be much less.
Setting SdampHi, Szp, lower than this though, and you will lose resolution.

[shaolin95]

I somehow like the older ones better at least with my display. By using the denoiser at the end and lowering my luma sharp I finally got the desired image.
I wish I understand all those limit, rgmode, etc that you are tweaking.

[turstar]

ERROR ???

import("C:\Program Files\GordianKnot\AviSynthPlugins\seesaw.avs")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\removegrain.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\repair.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\ssetools.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\masktools.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\mt_masktools.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\undot.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\Convolution3d.dll")
mpeg2source("E:\NEW\VIDEO_TS\matrix 1.d2v")


crop(0,80,718,416)
LanczosResize(720,288)
undot()
Convolution3d("moviehq")
SeeSaw(a,b, NRlimit=3, NRlimit2=4, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=5, Spower=5, Sdamplo=6, Szp=16)


ERROR ????
http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/8875/riprd4.jpg

[Boulder]

You need to specify a (and b) in your script. See the scripts other have posted here.

[Jeremy Duncan]

Here's a walkthrough guide for SeeSaw.
Link. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=115727)

[spyOne]

I was trying to use seesaw and i get this error:

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2244/errozz4.jpg


my script:

# PLUGINS
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\mpeg2dec3.dll")
LoadPlugin("H:\Gordian output\Riping Add ons\Avisynth plugins\warpsharp\warpsharp.dll")
LoadPlugin("H:\Gordian output\Riping Add ons\Avisynth plugins\Masktools\MaskTools.dll")
Import("H:\Gordian output\Riping Add ons\Avisynth plugins\limitedsharpen\LimitedSharpen.avs")
loadplugin("H:\Gordian output\Riping Add ons\Avisynth plugins\degrainmedian\DeGrainMedian.dll")
LoadPlugin("H:\Gordian output\Riping Add ons\Avisynth plugins\RemoveGrain\RemoveGrainSSE3.dll")
Import("H:\Gordian output\Riping Add ons\Avisynth plugins\SeeSaw\SeeSaw.avs")
# SOURCE
mpeg2source("H:\Gordian output\Jogo Espiões\vob spllited\testes\espioestestes.d2v")
DeGrainMedian(limitY=5,limitUV=5,mode=3)
crop(2,78,716,428)
LimitedSharpen(ss_x=1.5,ss_y=1.5,Smode=4,strength=100, overshoot=1)
LanczosResize(720,304)
a = last
b=a.DeGrainMedian( mode=1 )
SeeSaw(a,b, NRlimit=6, NRlimit2=7, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=5, Szp=16)


Im new in using scripts so be patient;)

[Backwoods]

Check out the post above you. You need to load mt_masktools.dll.

http://manao4.free.fr/masktools-v2.0a30.zip

[Bh4i]

Does it matter if u use Seesaw (or any sharpening) before or after resizing? Should u use it as ur last script?

[unskinnyboy]

Does it matter if u use Seesaw (or any sharpening) before or after resizing? Should u use it as ur last script?
Either way is OK. Resizing first is faster though, because you are reducing the pixel area on which the sharpener will work with.

[havix]

Anyone have some scripts that they like to use on 1080i material, possibly one for low-bitrate 8gb-12gb movies and then maybe for something around 16gb+? Low-bitrate seems to need some help with some macroblocking that occurs.

[Didée]

Anyone have some scripts that they like to use on 1080i material,
Could be I have some script's I'd like to try on HD material. Only thing is, I have no HD material ... :)

If macroblocking is the main problem, there are
- native filters like the "cpu/2" option in DGDecode, it's "BlindPP" counterpart, or the h.264 deblocking routine "deblock".
- custom filters like FunkyDeblock, Deblock_qed, or SmoothDeblock. (The latter surely tooo slow for HD.)

[havix]

Macroblocking is the main concern along with quite a bit of noise, although I'm not used to seeing film grain so I believe that's what is making my eyes confused :) On a sidenote I would suggest you signup for giganews or usenetserver. Plenty of hidef content.

[Backwoods]

Could be I have some script's I'd like to try on HD material. Only thing is, I have no HD material ... :)

2 options:

1) post your scripts or send them to me, I can test for you

2) shoot me your address and I will mail you some HD material

[Didée]

2 options:

1) post your scripts or send them to me, I can test for you

2) shoot me your address and I will mail you some HD material

Quoting a PM:
Hehe, it wasy only a joke ... mostly in that sense that I don't capture HD content from satellite. Samples I have a few, of course. But HD is too time intensive for serious filtering, you know ... and since I can't find the time to convert all the captured stuff, by now I've roughly 300-400 GB of captured material lying around. And that's only SD! Now imagine I would capture HD ... my rig would burst within a week or two! :D

[havix]

Yeah I'm at the point where I'm considering building just 2 core 2 duo machines since I'll have to dedicate one to encoding and my current spare 2.8ghz machine isn't quite cutting it.

[Backwoods]

I shoot in HD and filtering a 2min segment took me 2hrs while running a AMD 4800+ 2gigs of RAM. I've heard good things about those Core Duo chips, maybe after some AVISynth tests I'll look into them for encoding.

[scilli]

I have an e6400 and am very pleased with encoding speeds. I don't know about a 2 min segment but with light filtering I can encode a 1hr40min movie in x264 it takes me about 5-6 hours for 2 passes to complete. Coming from my shitty 1.4gHz pentium 4 this blows me away! Buy light filtering I mean cropping and maybe some light fft3dGPU filtering for noise.

[Backwoods]

On SD or HD footage? Sounds like SD.

[scilli]

On SD footage. I just ran a test on some HD content while writing this comment! I took a 1min clip from a 1080i source and resized to 720p, than used SeeSaw.

Here is the gist of my script:
Lanczos4Resize(1280,720,0,0,1920,1080)

MT("a=last
b=a.degrainmedian(mode=2).VagueDenoiser(threshold=0.8, method=1, nsteps=6, chromaT=0.8)
SeeSaw(a, b, NRlimit=3, NRlimit2=4, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=5, Spower=5, Sdamplo=6, Szp=16)")

I used forcefilm in dgindex cause I'm lazy, so I don't know how much time ivtc would add but my first pass was done in 3min55sec at about 5.78fps and my second pass finished in about 12mins running at 1.99 fps. So I think a 2 minute clip would take less than 2 hours. Encoding without resizing would add some time I think, so if you'd like me to see how long that would take me I'll be more than happy to try. I would deffinatly recommend one of these cause I'm running at stock(2.13gHz) and I have had it up to 2.8gHz dual-prime stable for 12hrs. And I seem to have a dud chip cause many people have been able to get up to 3.2gHz easily, mine seems to hit a wall at around 3gHz. Prices considering performance are very good too.

[Pookie]

You should see if DegrainMedian(mode=1) alone is enough for your denoising, you might be able to get another FPS perhaps. In the case of transcoding HD resolution material, SeeSaw is not the bottleneck.

[scilli]

I'll have to test that out. I really haven't tried adjusting too many settings yet, even within SeeSaw itself. It probably will be enough seeing as my source's are usually pretty high quality. I need to keep in mind that looking at single frames in vdub doesn't mean I'll be able to tell the difference when actually viewing a completed encode:)

*edit* I decided that degrainmedian(mode=1) was in fact strong enough, but I also overclocked from 2.13gHz to 2.66gHz so who knows how much fps increase is do to less denoising. Anyway I'm currently running my second pass at 3.46fps:)

[oligophant]

this i what i get

Script error: there is no function named "repair"
c:\....\seesaw.avsi

my script is


LoadPlugin("C:\...\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\...\VSFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\...\degrainmedian.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\...\Decomb521VFR1.3_PPro-P3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\...\MaskTools.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\...\fft3dfilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\...\MSharpen.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\...\MipSmooth.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\...\LeakKernelDeint.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\...\RemoveGrain.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\...\mt_masktools.dll")


Import("C:\...\LimitedSharpen.avs")

Import("C:\...\Ylevels.avs")

Import("C:\...\BlindDeHalo2.avs")

Import("C:\...\DeHalo_alpha.avs")

Import("C:\...\SeeSaw.avsi")

MPEG2Source("D:\...\brother-wife01.d2v")

Telecide(order=1,guide=0,post=4,vthresh=25)

leakkernelbob(order=1,sharp=true,twoway=true,threshold=4)

a = last

b=a.degrainmedian(mode=2)

SeeSaw(a,b, NRlimit=6, NRlimit2=7, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=5, Spower=5, Sdamplo=6, Szp=16)

BlindDeHalo2(2.0,2.0,100)

DeHalo_alpha()

FFT3DFILTER(sigma=3,bt=3,sharpen=1.0, interlaced=true)

LimitedSharpen(ss_x=2.0,ss_y=2.0,dest_x=640,dest_y=480,Smode=3,strength=100)

YlevelsS(0,0.9,255,0,255)

textsub("D:\...\OVA01.ass")


any suggestions?

[Boulder]

You need the Repair dll as well. It's in the RemoveGrain package.