New Sharpening Function from Didée -'SeeSaw'

[Blue_MiSfit]

Is there a modifed SeeSaw out there that works with recent builds of Masktools2?


never mind... I had an outdated version installed. The latest on the wiki works fine with Masktools2...


~MiSfit

[elguaxo]

Mind that SeeSaw was posted quite early, so it's still a bit inmature with its options. For ex., regarding chroma, there are at least the possibilities
- use original chroma
- use denoised chroma as-is
- use denoised chroma, plus limiting

but currently there's no knob to choose between them ... the last one is used, silently. ;)

what should be changed to use denoised chroma as-is instead of use denoised chroma, plus limiting? TIA.

[Didée]

That's not a complicated change to do, but needs some thinking how to implement as convenient as possible.

For the moment,

SeeSaw(original,denoised,[params]).MergeChroma(denoised)

is the obvious workaround.

To hardcode the usage of denoised chroma without limiting, exchange the two instances of chroma="process" with chroma="copy second". (Referring to the SeeSawMT2 script for MaskTools v2, obviously.)

[elguaxo]

To hardcode the usage of denoised chroma without limiting, exchange the two instances of chroma="process" with chroma="copy second".

:thanks:

[Nephilis]

resurrection


When in a couple of months I'm back into things, I'll try to finally do the MV-version of SeeSaw. After all, that's what it was planned to be from the very start.

Hi Didée,
Any progress with MTools version of SeeSaw? Or those (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1380002#post1380002) scripts are good enough according to you?

[dansrfe]

For some reason I'm getting a really grainy output when using MDegrain2 @ 300 on a relatively clean (yet detail dull) dvd source. It's like this grain that looks like the frame has a glass cover on it with grainy dust particles. Thanks in advance.

[Guest]

Post a sample of your unprocessed source video and your script. How can we possibly help you without those things?

[dansrfe]

Right now I just have:

MPEG2Source("G:\DVD\VTS_01_1.d2v", cpu=0)
Crop(0,70,0,-70)
a = last
b = a.MT("""super = MSuper(pel=2, sharp=1)
bv2 = super.MAnalyse(isb = true, delta = 2, overlap=4, blksize=16,chroma=false)
bv1 = super.MAnalyse(isb = true, delta = 1, overlap=4, blksize=16,chroma=false)
fv1 = super.MAnalyse(isb = false, delta = 1, overlap=4, blksize=16,chroma=false)
fv2 = super.MAnalyse(isb = false, delta = 2, overlap=4, blksize=16,chroma=false)
MDegrain2(super, bv1,fv1,bv2,fv2,thSAD=300)""",2,overlap=8)
SeeSaw(a,b)

Cut (http://www.sendspace.com/file/9bjgik)
Also should I be applying this before or after color/level filters?

[Guest]

That video looks very clean. Why do you want to "sharpen" that?

[dansrfe]

It just seemed a bit dull to me. Thought it might need some detail enhancement. I just can't seem to understand what seesaw is doing that seems to add extra grain. Even after turning bias down to 0 and lowering szp and sdamphi values it still gives a slightly grainy output.

[Guest]

I just can't seem to understand what seesaw is doing that seems to add extra grain. It's sharpening. :)

[dansrfe]

But why is it sharpening the background into grain?

[Guest]

Because you told it to sharpen it.

[Archimedes]

MPEG2Source("G:\DVD\VTS_01_1.d2v", cpu=0)
Crop(0,70,0,-70)
a = last
b = a.MT("""super = MSuper(pel=2, sharp=1)
bv2 = super.MAnalyse(isb = true, delta = 2, overlap=4, blksize=16,chroma=false)
bv1 = super.MAnalyse(isb = true, delta = 1, overlap=4, blksize=16,chroma=false)
fv1 = super.MAnalyse(isb = false, delta = 1, overlap=4, blksize=16,chroma=false)
fv2 = super.MAnalyse(isb = false, delta = 2, overlap=4, blksize=16,chroma=false)
MDegrain2(super, bv1,fv1,bv2,fv2,thSAD=300)""",2,overlap=8)
SeeSaw(a,b)

Is the same as:

MPEG2Source("G:\DVD\VTS_01_1.d2v", cpu=0)
Crop(0,70,0,-70)
a = last
b = a.MT("""super = MSuper(pel=2, sharp=1)
SeeSaw(a,b)

Should be:

…
b = MDegrain2(super, bv1,fv1,bv2,fv2,thSAD=300)""",2,overlap=8)
SeeSaw(a,b)

[Gavino]

b = a.MT("""super = MSuper(pel=2, sharp=1)
...
MDegrain2(super, bv1,fv1,bv2,fv2,thSAD=300)""",2,overlap=8)
SeeSaw(a,b)
Is the same as:
a = last
b = a.MT("""super = MSuper(pel=2, sharp=1)
SeeSaw(a,b)
Should be:
…
b = MDegrain2(super, bv1,fv1,bv2,fv2,thSAD=300)""",2,overlap=8)
SeeSaw(a,b)
No, you are wrong.
If you put the assignment to b inside the MT call, it will only get the result from one slice of the process, not the combined result of all slices.

[Archimedes]

My mistake. Thanks. Didn't work with the MT stuff in AviSynth so much.

[Nephilis]

I think the proper and clean notation is;

MPEG2Source("G:\DVD\VTS_01_1.d2v", cpu=0)
Crop(0,70,0,-70)
MT("""
src = last
src_super = MSuper(src, pel=2, sharp=2)
bv2 = MAnalyse(src_super, isb = true, delta = 2, overlap=4, blksize=16,chroma=false)
bv1 = MAnalyse(src_super, isb = true, delta = 1, overlap=4, blksize=16,chroma=false)
fv1 = MAnalyse(src_super, isb = false, delta = 1, overlap=4, blksize=16,chroma=false)
fv2 = MAnalyse(src_super, isb = false, delta = 2, overlap=4, blksize=16,chroma=false)
NR = MDegrain2(src,src_super,bv1,fv1,bv2,fv2,thSAD=300)
shp = SeeSaw(src,NR,{......})
Return shp
""",2,overlap=8)

With this notation SeeSaw takes the advantage of MT, too..

[Didée]

SeeSaw is not inventing anything out of thin air. It is only enhancing things that are already there. So, if you're getting a noisy background, you can guess what that means.

However, this sort of problem is quite common when MDegrain is combined with strong sharpening. MDegrain has the habit of not killing noise/grain completely, but to construct some "static"/or/"slowly crawling" noise at low intensity. Usually this isn't noticeable in the end result when just denoising is done. But it becomes noticeable when combined with some strong enhancement.

[Beak]

Hello. I am trying to get this filter to work in MeGui. I use ffdshow as the decoder with no filtering.

DirectShowSource("C:\Users\Brendan\Videos\Video\Video.m2ts", fps=23.976, audio=false, convertfps=true)
#deinterlace
#crop
#resize
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\degrainmedian.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\mt_masktools-26.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\RemoveGrainSSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\RepairSSE3.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\\SeeSaw.avs")



a=last

b=a.DeGrainMedian(limitY=2,limitUV=3,mode=1).
DeGrainMedian(limitY=2,limitUV=3,mode=1)

SeeSaw(a,b, NRlimit=3, NRlimit2=4, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=5, Spower=5, Sdamplo=6, Szp=16)

It loads and previews OK, but MeGui invariably crashes after a minute or so.

I've tried the older version of Masktools and the SeeSaw avs script is the one from the avisynth wiki.

Any help greatly appreciated.

[Didée]

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\mt_masktools-26.dll")
You must use mt_masktools-25.dll. (The -26.dll is for Avisynth 2.6, which you're probably not using.)

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\RemoveGrainSSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\RepairSSE3.dll")
Better try the ~SSE2.dll plugins. When everything is proven to run rock stable, then you can try the SSE3 plugins.

Of course there's a big drawback - when you use "only" the SSE2 plugins, then a typical 2-hours-encoding might take 2 or 3 seconds longer ... maybe 5, perhaps even 10 seconds. :p

[ajp_anton]

You must use mt_masktools-25.dll. (The -26.dll is for Avisynth 2.5.6, which you're probably not using.)
I thought -25 was for 2.5.x and -26 for 2.6...

[Didée]

Yes, of course. Too much typing in too much forums today, I was scatterbrained. Sorry. Post corrected. Thanks for pointing out.

[Beak]

@Didee

Thank you so much. The encode is in progress. without a crash by switching to the SSE2 dll and the SSE2 repair dlls.

Script now reads:

DirectShowSource("C:\Users\Brendan\Videos\Video\Video.m2ts", fps=23.976, audio=false, convertfps=true)
#deinterlace
#crop
#resize
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\degrainmedian.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\mt_masktools-25.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\RemoveGrainSSE2.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\RepairSSE2.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\\SeeSaw.avs")



a=last

b=a.DeGrainMedian(limitY=2,limitUV=3,mode=1)
DeGrainMedian(limitY=2,limitUV=3,mode=1)

SeeSaw(a,b, NRlimit=3, NRlimit2=4, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=5, Spower=5, Sdamplo=6, Szp=16)

Could you please comment on the denoising commands for DegrainMedian?

I would like 3 noise reduction settings to test.

1 for very light grain or noise. I understand there is some degraining performed by Remove grain. Is this adequate for a relatively clean Bluray source and how must I alter my script?

2 a minimally noisy source.

3 a moderately noisy source.

If degrainmedian is the best choice so much the better but I understand there are many varied filters to use but you have said this filter gives good results with SeeSaw.

The SeeSaw setting I used were from your recommendation near the beginning of the thread.

Thank you very much again for your help. I am excited to see the results several hours from now :)

Your advice on how to use degrainmedian would be invaluable so I can make up some preset type scripts.

Thanks again, BK

[Didée]

Lots of bad news. :D

1. Can't tell which denoiser is suited better or worse. That depends on the actual source and its specific characteristics.

2. Can't tell you much about DegrainMedian. I've used it only very little over the years.

3. When you're processing HD content, in particular full-HD, then SeeSaw probably won't come out very "impressing". Back then, it really was designed for SD content. One of its key features is using a 3x3 median, and for HD content, 3x3 is too small in most cases. In effect, where SeeSaw can do "BOOM!" on SD, it probably will do "oohh ... nothing" on HD.

[Beak]

Well. I learned a bit more about scripting anyway.

I have a bunch of DVD's that are 16/9 but encoded as 4/3 so they don't fill the screen properly when I play them.

Ill try the script with the fft 3d filter and see what happens.

Thanks for your help.:thanks:

[niru7206]

@Didee

Since a week back, seesaw.avs is not working on my pc as well as on my laptop. I have tried those scripts also, which I used earlier for successful ripping. But there is always some error and the script is not working. What should be the reason behind it???

RemoveGrain: invalid mode 20
(c:\program files\avisynth 2.5\plugins\seesaw.avs, line=124)
(c:\program files\avisynth 2.5\plugins\seesaw.avs, line=80)

Help me out, plz!

[Didée]

Wrong (too old) version of RemoveGrain.

As stated several times ... see e.g. #59 / #60 here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1418631#post1418631)

[niru7206]

@Didee

Thanks. It seems to be working. Still I have to check all the Avisynth folder, as some filters are not working properly. Need some guidance...what filter should I retain and what not??? Thanks Didee...seesaw.avs is working now.

[Beak]

@Didee

Hello. I just used SeeSaw with my improperly letterboxed version of Aliens and got absolutely amazing results with fft3d filter.

I was very disappointed with your revelation that the script would not likely work well on Bluray, then I found out about LSFMod and have been playing with that for now. My first encode is in progress with the following:

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\lsfmod\mt_masktools-25.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\lsfmod\RemoveGrainSSE2.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\lsfmod\RepairSSE2.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\lsfmod\RSharpen.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\lsfmod\WarpSharp.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\lsfmod\LSFMod.avs")
LSFmod(smode=5)

The source is very slightly grained 1080P.

Frankly, I don't know what I am doing but its great to play with this stuff.

Can you comment on this script I am using? I would be really interested to know what you would suggest as reasonable starter settings for fft3d filter for light and moderate noise.

I currently use ffdshow with the temporal smooth setting at 1 along with the above script but I am not sure it is even required with the rest of the script. I am hoping to remove light noise prior to the avisynth filtering.

My last question is probably contentious, As good as a clean bluray source is already, is additional filtering worth it?. I don't know how to do simultaneous comparisons etc.

I am pretty new to scripting and filtering but I am really intrigued after the result I got on Aliens!! wow

[TheProfileth]

To do comparisons easily use this site
http://comparescreenshots.slicx.com/
basically just take a screen of the before and then of the after and compare any other conclusions can be drawn from what you see then, also please use another thread if you want continued feed back on this question

[Beak]

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\FFT3DFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\mt_masktools-25.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\RemoveGrainSSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\RepairSSE3.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\\SeeSaw.avs")



a=last

b=a.fft3dfilter(sigma=1.5, bt=5, bw=32, bh=32, ow=16, oh=16)


SeeSaw(a,b, NRlimit=3, NRlimit2=4, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=5, Spower=5, Sdamplo=6, Szp=16)

Hello. Can this be modified to run with avisynth MT Version? I could really use some help. The fft3d is slowing things down something silly.

[Boulotaur2024]

When you're processing HD content, in particular full-HD, then SeeSaw probably won't come out very "impressing". Back then, it really was designed for SD content. One of its key features is using a 3x3 median, and for HD content, 3x3 is too small in most cases. In effect, where SeeSaw can do "BOOM!" on SD, it probably will do "oohh ... nothing" on HD.
I remember you already stating that about LSF, I still use it on HD source even if now I know the plugin's not efficient as it would be on SD source...

But maybe there's a way to apply a proper "LSF-like" effect on HD ? LSFMod is supposed to do that ?

[Didée]

"LSF-like" effect on HD ? LSFMod is supposed to do that ?
LSFmod probably even less than the original LSF ... iirc, the creator decided to remove the "wide" parameter, which allows (would allow) to accommodate for the farther spatial relations of HD.

Just last week, Motenai Yoda brought up a good idea ... actually a puzzle with one or two pieces missing. A search warrant already has been issued. ;)

[Motenai Yoda]

one of these pieces was temporal stabilization? :D

[Didée]

No, not that. Think farther out of the box.

[lych_necross]

No, not that. Think farther out of the box.
Hmm... Inverse tachyon pulse? :p

[Yobbo]

Didee's gotta stop taking heroin. He's absorbing into himself.

[Didée]

Didee's gotta stop taking heroin. He's absorbing into himself.
If that was meant to be a joke, then I did miss it. I don't see how you come to put my name and heroin into context.
This is not funny. (And BTW, definetly not true.)

[Midzuki]

<OFF-TOPIC>

Hmm... Inverse tachyon
pulse? :p

"Goa'uld technology" would have been less of an absurdity. :p

</OFF-TOPIC>

[Yobbo]

If that was meant to be a joke, then I did miss it. I don't see how you come to put my name and heroin into context.
This is not funny. (And BTW, definetly not true.)

Well stop posting stupid cryptic comments, you come across as an elitist twat.

[Boulder]

Maybe he's trying to teach something instead of spoon-feeding everyone?

[Yobbo]

Maybe he's trying to teach something instead of spoon-feeding everyone?

OK. I "sort of" agree with this sentiment, Boulder. But take it too far, and this forum becomes elitist esoteric "secret cabal" sort of nonsense. Should we use secret passwords & codes and secret handshakes too?

Fer crying out loud, life's short, surely the thing to do is help people out clearly and concisely and not get all smarmy and toffed & ego-massage-craving... Anyway I'll end it here.

[MatLz]

Anyway I'll end it here.Good boy.

[Yobbo]

Good boy.

Why you say that? I'm probably older than you, and I raised valid points. Go ahead and be "Didee's bumboy/fanboy", what has he done recently? Some half-assed function that never gets followed-up? Some talk about some gob-smack wonderful "iip" function that never happens? All he does is post condescending/elitist comments everywhere!

I speak the truth, it's up to you whether to listen. I'll end it here, but CAN YOU?

[Didée]

Sure. I'll end it here just as well.


You explicitely point out your advanced age, but act like a child.

Then, somehow I am missing YOUR history of inventions that would qualify you to attack me in this way. (Crying "crap" is easy. Making useful stuff is not.)

Well, perhaps this comment of you (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1448506#post1448506) is indicating a case of psychological projection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection)? I know for sure I don't have a drug problem, but the more you speak, the less sure I'm about you ...


Let it be, Yobbo ... for just the reason that it's very off topic for this thread. Fact is, if moderation becomes necessary, the loudest cryer are you.

[Bi11]

Didée, why do you feel the need to justify the validity or invalidity of an accusation? especially by forcing "examples" that are clearly off-topic/out-of-context for this thread. :(

[dansrfe]

Hi Didée! I was just wondering whether you were planning on updating or optimizing seesaw in any way or is this basically set in stone? :D btw seesaw rocks :)

[Motenai Yoda]

if you had any suggestions for the "general purpose non linear pulse multi pass band pass and temporal stabilized sub sharpener", I would appreciate...

I think u sure know the Plato's Allegory of the Cave

[Beak]

Hello again.

I am running an OC I7 920 at 3.6 Gig. I am getting no more than 3 frames per second with the following script.

DirectShowSource("C:\Users\Brendan\Videos\Video\Video.m2ts", fps=23.976, audio=false, convertfps=true)

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\FFT3DFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\mt_masktools-25.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\RemoveGrainSSE2.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\RepairSSE2.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\MT.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files (x86)\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\\SeeSaw.avs")



a=last

b=a.MT("fft3dfilter(sigma=1.5, bt=5, bw=32, bh=32, ow=16, oh=16)",2,8)



SeeSaw(a,b, NRlimit=3, NRlimit2=4, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=5, Spower=5, Sdamplo=6, Szp=16)

Can anyone tell me if this is normal or if I have made some kind of error?

Thanks for any help or advice.

[hartford]

I tried your script with several changes: I didn't load MT.dll,
I used RemoveGrainSSE3, and I did a inverse telecine and
decimate on my test.

I have a Dual Conroe, 2.13 MHz. I got 8-9 FPS.

No idea why your fps is half of mine.

Perhaps the MT.dll is the problem? Settings?

My video was 720x480. If your's is 4 times larger that might
account for some of the "slowness."