capturing HDV - opening in vdub

bluesix · 20th March 2007, 18:31

I capture HDV from my sony hdr-hc5 to my pc using sony's proprietary motion picture capture utility.

The stream is captured as a .m2t file

A quick search on google for conversions from m2t to avi don't tell me whether their damn apps are lossless or not. I hate it when they leave out key information like that. I didn't pay $$ for a hd cam only to have quality loss during conversion.

Sony's answer was to google it. Nice tech support.

I heard you can open m2t in vdub using avisynth using DirectShowSource(). haven't used avisnyth in a long time

Do I need DirectShow from MS? The latest version of avisynth? What is the exact syntax for the avs file?

Sony vaio xp
1 mb ram
hdr-hc5 camcorder

bluesix · 20th March 2007, 18:55

Ok. so now I have successfully opened the m2t file in vdub (latest version) and have to set the preview window to 25% just so i can see it full frame.

I wish to use virtualdub as a trimmer and encode the video with Vegas 5.0

I selected DirectStream copy and wound up with an avi file that is 6 seconds long and 500 mb. What codec should I use for lossless HDV avi? I have tried huffyuv in the past for dv but it crashes windows explorer whenever I open a folder with a huffyuv encoded video in it.

bb · 20th March 2007, 19:21

You cannot edit MPEG-2 files with VirtualDub. VirtualDub can decode MPEG-2, and you may use it to cut and encode in a different format, e.g. MPEG-4 (XviD, DivX, etc.). You need a VfW codec, which is not available for MPEG-2 (at least nothing that's worth mentioning).

Maybe Womble is what you are looking for. Maybe you can demux (e.g. using ProjectX) and use Cuttermaran or MPEG2Schnitt to cut losslessly.

By the way: As soon as you use AviSynth, you decode the MPEG-2 as well; so this is not an option if you want to cut losslessly.

bb

Blue_MiSfit · 21st March 2007, 06:20

Well, if you want to go to a lossless keyframe only format for editing (In Premiere or another NLE), (which avoids generational losses, very nice) - HuffYUV works well (I have tested this workflow), as does Lagarith (a bit more CPU intensive)

Of course, if you have money, then CineForm HD is designed to do EXACTLY this, and it's blindingly fast and has excellent visual quality. It integrates directly with Premiere's Real Time engine. Very useful, but you can achieve similar results by using HuffYUV / Lagarith.

DGIndex can handle the M2T (load D2V into AviSynth), and then VirtualDub can handle basic editing if you need. Then encode to HuffYUV / Lagarith, and then edit with Vegas or Premiere.

~MiSfit

bb · 21st March 2007, 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesix

[...]I have tried huffyuv in the past for dv but it crashes windows explorer whenever I open a folder with a huffyuv encoded video in it.

Maybe that's an issue described by Microsoft support here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/822430

Another problem could be that you are using Huffyuv v2.2.0, which has been reported to make trouble. Better use v2.1.1.

bb

bluesix · 10th April 2007, 01:26

Ok. I am able now to open the m2t stream in Vegas 7.0 I use a project resolution appropriate for my source of 1440x1080 30fps

I wish to export for web. What would be a good resolution to use with this 1.333 ratio? The defaults are odd. It is showing 720p output. Is that not a different pixel ratio?

I appreciate all your help.

FredThompson · 18th April 2007, 09:59

TyTool supports editing HD MPEG-2 with near-lossess cutting and joining. By definition, you can't do a lossless operation on open GOPs or intra-GOP, but I digress...

720p is 720x480 progressive video pixels. Yes, it's a slightly different ratio.

IIWY, I'd use Donald Graft's Smart Deinterlace and Smart Resize (precise bilinear setting) filters for VirtualDub, serving the frames to Vegas.

I'll be more than willing to help you with any of this. I shoot a lot of DV in an industrial setting and am sick and tired of the jagged, crappy results. The only practical solution seems to be HDV and downsizing, such as you are doing. (RED isn't practical for us mere mortals...)

By definition, ALL DV is lossy compression. There are some things you can do in filtering to help increase the quality and reduce noise. PM me with more info about the type of source you've got (lighting, etc.) and I'll walk you through some of this stuff.

Blue_MiSfit · 25th April 2007, 18:25

Quote:

720p is 720x480 progressive video pixels. Yes, it's a slightly different ratio.

No, it isn't. 720p is 1280x720 progressive. It is the same ratio as true 1080p - 1920x1080. Your 1440x1080 is anamorphic. It's true display resolution is 1920x1080, so 1280x720 is a clean downsize. On that note, why the frack did people decide to call 2k, when it has just 2048 horizontal lines, which is just a hair over 1080p. The same goes for 4k!

Your HDV is surely 1080i, which means that deinterlacing will be required. I cringe at the thought of what Vegas's deinterlacer must be like - you might want to deinterlace with AviSynth (use debugmode frameserver to output 1080i from Vegas into AviSynth)

If you want to stream, I wouldn't count on doing HD. You will need a lot of bitrate, and a CPU heavy codec like H.264. I would suggest downconverting to SD resolution (which would be 720x400 for square pixels, or 720x480 for anamorphic), and offering a 720p or 1080p version for full download and local playback, with the note that you will need a beast of a system to play it

~MiSfit

FredThompson · 25th April 2007, 19:00

Yes, you're right. I got X and Y confused. Sorry.

20th March 2007, 18:31	#1 \| Link
bluesix Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 54	capturing HDV - opening in vdub I capture HDV from my sony hdr-hc5 to my pc using sony's proprietary motion picture capture utility. The stream is captured as a .m2t file A quick search on google for conversions from m2t to avi don't tell me whether their damn apps are lossless or not. I hate it when they leave out key information like that. I didn't pay $$ for a hd cam only to have quality loss during conversion. Sony's answer was to google it. Nice tech support. I heard you can open m2t in vdub using avisynth using DirectShowSource(). haven't used avisnyth in a long time Do I need DirectShow from MS? The latest version of avisynth? What is the exact syntax for the avs file? Sony vaio xp 1 mb ram hdr-hc5 camcorder

20th March 2007, 18:55	#2 \| Link
bluesix Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 54	captured avi too large Ok. so now I have successfully opened the m2t file in vdub (latest version) and have to set the preview window to 25% just so i can see it full frame. I wish to use virtualdub as a trimmer and encode the video with Vegas 5.0 I selected DirectStream copy and wound up with an avi file that is 6 seconds long and 500 mb. What codec should I use for lossless HDV avi? I have tried huffyuv in the past for dv but it crashes windows explorer whenever I open a folder with a huffyuv encoded video in it.

21st March 2007, 06:20	#4 \| Link
Blue_MiSfit Derek Prestegard IRL Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,027	Well, if you want to go to a lossless keyframe only format for editing (In Premiere or another NLE), (which avoids generational losses, very nice) - HuffYUV works well (I have tested this workflow), as does Lagarith (a bit more CPU intensive) Of course, if you have money, then CineForm HD is designed to do EXACTLY this, and it's blindingly fast and has excellent visual quality. It integrates directly with Premiere's Real Time engine. Very useful, but you can achieve similar results by using HuffYUV / Lagarith. DGIndex can handle the M2T (load D2V into AviSynth), and then VirtualDub can handle basic editing if you need. Then encode to HuffYUV / Lagarith, and then edit with Vegas or Premiere. ~MiSfit __________________ These are all my personal statements, not those of my employer :)

18th April 2007, 09:59	#7 \| Link
FredThompson Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC USA Posts: 1,988	TyTool supports editing HD MPEG-2 with near-lossess cutting and joining. By definition, you can't do a lossless operation on open GOPs or intra-GOP, but I digress... 720p is 720x480 progressive video pixels. Yes, it's a slightly different ratio. IIWY, I'd use Donald Graft's Smart Deinterlace and Smart Resize (precise bilinear setting) filters for VirtualDub, serving the frames to Vegas. I'll be more than willing to help you with any of this. I shoot a lot of DV in an industrial setting and am sick and tired of the jagged, crappy results. The only practical solution seems to be HDV and downsizing, such as you are doing. (RED isn't practical for us mere mortals...) By definition, ALL DV is lossy compression. There are some things you can do in filtering to help increase the quality and reduce noise. PM me with more info about the type of source you've got (lighting, etc.) and I'll walk you through some of this stuff. __________________ Reclusive fart. Collecting Military, Trains, Cooking, Woodworking, Fighting Illini, Auburn Tigers

25th April 2007, 19:00	#9 \| Link
FredThompson Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Charlotte, NC USA Posts: 1,988	Yes, you're right. I got X and Y confused. Sorry. __________________ Reclusive fart. Collecting Military, Trains, Cooking, Woodworking, Fighting Illini, Auburn Tigers

20th March 2007, 19:21	#3 \| Link
bb Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 2,665	You cannot edit MPEG-2 files with VirtualDub. VirtualDub can decode MPEG-2, and you may use it to cut and encode in a different format, e.g. MPEG-4 (XviD, DivX, etc.). You need a VfW codec, which is not available for MPEG-2 (at least nothing that's worth mentioning). Maybe Womble is what you are looking for. Maybe you can demux (e.g. using ProjectX) and use Cuttermaran or MPEG2Schnitt to cut losslessly. By the way: As soon as you use AviSynth, you decode the MPEG-2 as well; so this is not an option if you want to cut losslessly. bb

10th April 2007, 01:26	#6 \| Link
bluesix Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 54	Ok. I am able now to open the m2t stream in Vegas 7.0 I use a project resolution appropriate for my source of 1440x1080 30fps I wish to export for web. What would be a good resolution to use with this 1.333 ratio? The defaults are odd. It is showing 720p output. Is that not a different pixel ratio? I appreciate all your help.