How to improve OPV final size predictability?

ruedas · 28th February 2007, 21:49

Code:

[23:26:47] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- DVD-RB v1.22
- AVISYNTH 2.5.6.0
- CCE 1.0.0.13 encoder selected.
- "One Pass VBR (w/analysis)" mode is enabled.
- Source: CUTTING_EDGE_CLONE
- VTS_01: 2,622,662 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V & .AVS files
-- Processed 141,770 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 85.1%
- Overall Bitrate : 7,196/5,756Kbs
- Space for Video : 4,154,998KB
- Analyzing VTS_01 for optimal Q factor.
  -- TargetSize (sectors):2,108,661
  -- Sampling 2844 of 141770 frames.
  -- Predicted size (sectors) at Q=17: 2,031,662
  -- Predicted size (sectors) at Q=16: 2,077,582
  -- Predicted size (sectors) at Q=15: 2,124,807
- Q Value selected:  15
- HIGH/LOW/TYPICAL Bitrates: 6,510/5,203/5,756 Kbs
[23:34:05] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 8 minutes.
[23:35:21] Phase II ENCODING started
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 0
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 1
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 2
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 3
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 4
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 5
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 6
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 7
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 8
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 9
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 10
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 11
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 12
[00:31:17] Phase II ENCODING completed in  56 minutes.
[01:30:26] Phase III, REBUILD started.
- Copying IFO, BUP, and unaltered files...
- Processing VTS_01
  - Reading/processing TMAP table...
  - Rebuilding seg 0 VOBID 1 CELLID 1
  - Rebuilding seg 1 VOBID 1 CELLID 2
  - Rebuilding seg 2 VOBID 1 CELLID 3
  - Rebuilding seg 3 VOBID 1 CELLID 4
  - Rebuilding seg 4 VOBID 1 CELLID 5
  - Rebuilding seg 5 VOBID 1 CELLID 6
  - Rebuilding seg 6 VOBID 1 CELLID 7
  - Rebuilding seg 7 VOBID 1 CELLID 8
  - Rebuilding seg 8 VOBID 1 CELLID 9
  - Rebuilding seg 9 VOBID 1 CELLID 10
  - Rebuilding seg 10 VOBID 1 CELLID 11
  - Rebuilding seg 11 VOBID 1 CELLID 12
  - Rebuilding seg 12 VOBID 1 CELLID 13
  - Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
  - Updated VTS_C_ADT.
  - Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_01_0.IFO
  - Updating TMAP table...
- Correcting VTS Sectors...
[01:39:52] Phase III, REBUILD completed in 9 minutes.

-----------------
[12:09:44] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- DVD-RB v1.22
- AVISYNTH 2.5.6.0
- CCE 1.0.0.13 encoder selected.
- "One Pass VBR (w/analysis)" mode is enabled.
- Source: CUTTING_EDGE_CLONE
- VTS_01: 2,622,662 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V & .AVS files
-- Processed 141,770 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 85.1%
- Overall Bitrate : 7,195/5,756Kbs
- Space for Video : 4,154,898KB
- Analyzing VTS_01 for optimal Q factor.
  -- TargetSize (sectors):2,108,611
  -- Sampling 4260 of 141770 frames.
  -- Predicted size (sectors) at Q=17: 2,017,030
  -- Predicted size (sectors) at Q=15: 2,106,189
- Q Value selected:  15
- HIGH/LOW/TYPICAL Bitrates: 6,510/5,203/5,756 Kbs
[12:16:41] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 7 minutes.
[12:51:23] Phase II ENCODING started
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 0
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 1
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 2
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 3
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 4
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 5
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 6
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 7
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 8
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 9
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 10
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 11
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 12
[13:36:57] Phase II ENCODING completed in  45 minutes.
[13:38:13] Phase III, REBUILD started.
- Copying IFO, BUP, and unaltered files...
- Processing VTS_01
  - Reading/processing TMAP table...
  - Rebuilding seg 0 VOBID 1 CELLID 1
  - Rebuilding seg 1 VOBID 1 CELLID 2
  - Rebuilding seg 2 VOBID 1 CELLID 3
  - Rebuilding seg 3 VOBID 1 CELLID 4
  - Rebuilding seg 4 VOBID 1 CELLID 5
  - Rebuilding seg 5 VOBID 1 CELLID 6
  - Rebuilding seg 6 VOBID 1 CELLID 7
  - Rebuilding seg 7 VOBID 1 CELLID 8
  - Rebuilding seg 8 VOBID 1 CELLID 9
  - Rebuilding seg 9 VOBID 1 CELLID 10
  - Rebuilding seg 10 VOBID 1 CELLID 11
  - Rebuilding seg 11 VOBID 1 CELLID 12
  - Rebuilding seg 12 VOBID 1 CELLID 13
  - Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
  - Updated VTS_C_ADT.
  - Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_01_0.IFO
  - Updating TMAP table...
- Correcting VTS Sectors...
[13:48:39] Phase III, REBUILD completed in 10 minutes.

Both ended up with the same size. Which is 4.38
I added to the second try:

Q_sample_percentage=3
and lowered
TargetSectors=2258750
to
TargetSectors=2258700

No difference in size.

So i guess predictability with q sample is not working. or do I have to play with higher values?
Or Q-sample-percentage doesnt really mod final size that dramatically.

Plz hlp

Ty.

Btw TargetSectors=2258750 has work for me for three passes or 2. around 99% 100% final size.

Is there a variable to OPVtargetsectors rather than regularpassestargetsectors. I hope you can implement that. I have found OPV to have to play with lower targetsector size and regular plays fine with that higher value.

Do u have a proven targetsectors for OPV ? is that why the default targetsectors of rebuilder is so low for multiple-passes?

ruedas · 28th February 2007, 23:54

Third try with regular default sectors
No line in Dbdrebuilder ini file

Code:

-----------------
[15:14:43] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- DVD-RB v1.22
- AVISYNTH 2.5.6.0
- CCE 1.0.0.13 encoder selected.
- "One Pass VBR (w/analysis)" mode is enabled.
- Source: CUTTING_EDGE_CLONE
- VTS_01: 2,622,662 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V & .AVS files
-- Processed 141,770 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 84.2%
- Overall Bitrate : 7,118/5,695Kbs
- Space for Video : 4,110,298KB
- Analyzing VTS_01 for optimal Q factor.
  -- TargetSize (sectors):2,085,976
  -- Sampling 4260 of 141770 frames.
  -- Predicted size (sectors) at Q=17: 2,017,030
  -- Predicted size (sectors) at Q=16: 2,060,872
  -- Predicted size (sectors) at Q=15: 2,106,189
- Q Value selected:  15
- HIGH/LOW/TYPICAL Bitrates: 6,440/5,147/5,695 Kbs
[15:22:57] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 8 minutes.
[15:36:34] Phase II ENCODING started
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 0
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 1
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 2
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 3
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 4
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 5
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 6
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 7
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 8
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 9
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 10
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 11
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 12
[16:27:51] Phase II ENCODING completed in  51 minutes.
[16:30:31] Phase III, REBUILD started.
- Copying IFO, BUP, and unaltered files...
- Processing VTS_01
  - Reading/processing TMAP table...
  - Rebuilding seg 0 VOBID 1 CELLID 1
  - Rebuilding seg 1 VOBID 1 CELLID 2
  - Rebuilding seg 2 VOBID 1 CELLID 3
  - Rebuilding seg 3 VOBID 1 CELLID 4
  - Rebuilding seg 4 VOBID 1 CELLID 5
  - Rebuilding seg 5 VOBID 1 CELLID 6
  - Rebuilding seg 6 VOBID 1 CELLID 7
  - Rebuilding seg 7 VOBID 1 CELLID 8
  - Rebuilding seg 8 VOBID 1 CELLID 9
  - Rebuilding seg 9 VOBID 1 CELLID 10
  - Rebuilding seg 10 VOBID 1 CELLID 11
  - Rebuilding seg 11 VOBID 1 CELLID 12
  - Rebuilding seg 12 VOBID 1 CELLID 13
  - Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
  - Updated VTS_C_ADT.
  - Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_01_0.IFO
  - Updating TMAP table...
- Correcting VTS Sectors...
[16:41:17] Phase III, REBUILD completed in 11 minutes.

Same result in the end 4.38 same size same everything.
I always erase the dv2avs when i have some kind of problem when doing a complete new test and recode. I found that somehow something gets not erased and rebuilder starts saying it has some trouble encoding again.
Same result again.

Will do a regular 2 pass but will leave any extra copy and d2vavs and final dirs for further tests.

ruedas · 1st March 2007, 02:48

Code:

[16:58:06] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- DVD-RB v1.22
- AVISYNTH 2.5.6.0
- CCE 1.0.0.13 encoder selected.
- Source: CUTTING_EDGE_CLONE
- VTS_01: 2,622,662 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V & .AVS files
-- Processed 141,770 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 85.1%
- Overall Bitrate : 7,196/5,756Kbs
- Space for Video : 4,154,998KB
- HIGH/LOW/TYPICAL Bitrates: 6,510/5,203/5,756 Kbs
[17:01:44] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 3 minutes.
[17:32:07] Phase II ENCODING started
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 0
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 1
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 2
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 3
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 4
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 5
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 6
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 7
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 8
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 9
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 10
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 11
 - Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 12
[19:10:56] Phase II ENCODING completed in  98 minutes.
[19:14:16] Phase III, REBUILD started.
- Copying IFO, BUP, and unaltered files...
- Processing VTS_01
  - Reading/processing TMAP table...
  - Rebuilding seg 0 VOBID 1 CELLID 1
  - Rebuilding seg 1 VOBID 1 CELLID 2
  - Rebuilding seg 2 VOBID 1 CELLID 3
  - Rebuilding seg 3 VOBID 1 CELLID 4
  - Rebuilding seg 4 VOBID 1 CELLID 5
  - Rebuilding seg 5 VOBID 1 CELLID 6
  - Rebuilding seg 6 VOBID 1 CELLID 7
  - Rebuilding seg 7 VOBID 1 CELLID 8
  - Rebuilding seg 8 VOBID 1 CELLID 9
  - Rebuilding seg 9 VOBID 1 CELLID 10
  - Rebuilding seg 10 VOBID 1 CELLID 11
  - Rebuilding seg 11 VOBID 1 CELLID 12
  - Rebuilding seg 12 VOBID 1 CELLID 13
  - Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
  - Updated VTS_C_ADT.
  - Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_01_0.IFO
  - Updating TMAP table...
- Correcting VTS Sectors...
[19:28:05] Phase III, REBUILD completed in 14 minutes.

Sucess. 4.34. Smaller than expected I used my old and tested target sectors TargetSectors=2258750. I finally had to give up testing OPV with this dvd. I still have the original and all my temps to test waiting for suggestions..

jdobbs · 1st March 2007, 12:02

The bottom line is that OPV prediction is inherently inaccurate -- it's the tradeoff you make for the gain in speed. Because of that inaccuracy you really can use higher-than-standard TargetSectors values -- it'll oversize a lot.

wmansir · 1st March 2007, 16:53

Also, once you see this in the log:

Code:

- Q Value selected:  15

It's all over but the crying. The Q Value sets the quality that OPV tries to obtain, since all three runs picked the same Q value the final output size is the same. So if it picks the same Q value, cancel and try again. If you want to bring the disc size down, lower TargetSectors until it selects a higher Q value (16 in this case).

nashcity · 2nd March 2007, 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmansir

Also, once you see this in the log:

Code:

- Q Value selected:  15

It's all over but the crying. The Q Value sets the quality that OPV tries to obtain, since all three runs picked the same Q value the final output size is the same. So if it picks the same Q value, cancel and try again. If you want to bring the disc size down, lower TargetSectors until it selects a higher Q value (16 in this case).

That's not true. Once you finish running the PREPARE phase and the Q-value has been selected (in this example: Q:15), you can still adjust it before encoding/rebuilding.

Here's what you do. Open the directory where you keep your working files - find the D2VAVS folder. Open the folder and find the REBUILDER.ECL file. Open this file using notepad. Now click EDIT -> REPLACE and replace "opv_q_factor=15" with "opv_q_factor=16". Hit "replace all". Save and exit.

Now run the encoding/rebuilding phase and you will end up with a slightly smaller file size (usually 100-200 mb smaller).

Good luck!

ruedas · 2nd March 2007, 07:34

Ty for all the input. My question is if i find another one like this slightly big dvd like 4.38 4.39 on OPV what should I do?
When encoding at vbr With 2 passes. I usually reencode the last part with a lesser rate.

With this q setting constant and Opv. How can i reencode just the last 1 vob/cell in vbr for space sake. I mean an easy way just to stop starting again encoding all in two passes for exact size. Is there an easy way to do it? Just the last vob cell in vbr or just the last cell with smaller size in opv?

I usually end up playing with the menu and remove or do some menuvideo to stills for the extra space and for the sake of time.

Thank you again for all the fast and great responses.

I cannot go OPV and reduce % of compression for some last cells or could I?

jolson · 11th March 2007, 21:11

I think one useful feature would be to be able to specify OPV for the main title and, after that is encoded and the size is known, the extras will have to do with what's left.

Sharc · 11th March 2007, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashcity

That's not true. Once you finish running the PREPARE phase and the Q-value has been selected (in this example: Q:15), you can still adjust it before encoding/rebuilding.

Here's what you do. Open the directory ............

You can also edit the Q by means of RB-Opt.
You find RB-Opt here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75202

1st March 2007, 12:02	#4 \| Link
jdobbs Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 21,176	The bottom line is that OPV prediction is inherently inaccurate -- it's the tradeoff you make for the gain in speed. Because of that inaccuracy you really can use higher-than-standard TargetSectors values -- it'll oversize a lot. __________________ jdobbs.softworks@gmail.com

1st March 2007, 16:53	#5 \| Link
wmansir Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: USA Posts: 1,919	Also, once you see this in the log: Code: - Q Value selected: 15 It's all over but the crying. The Q Value sets the quality that OPV tries to obtain, since all three runs picked the same Q value the final output size is the same. So if it picks the same Q value, cancel and try again. If you want to bring the disc size down, lower TargetSectors until it selects a higher Q value (16 in this case).

2nd March 2007, 07:34	#7 \| Link
ruedas Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 27	Ty for all the input. My question is if i find another one like this slightly big dvd like 4.38 4.39 on OPV what should I do? When encoding at vbr With 2 passes. I usually reencode the last part with a lesser rate. With this q setting constant and Opv. How can i reencode just the last 1 vob/cell in vbr for space sake. I mean an easy way just to stop starting again encoding all in two passes for exact size. Is there an easy way to do it? Just the last vob cell in vbr or just the last cell with smaller size in opv? I usually end up playing with the menu and remove or do some menuvideo to stills for the extra space and for the sake of time. Thank you again for all the fast and great responses. I cannot go OPV and reduce % of compression for some last cells or could I? Last edited by ruedas; 2nd March 2007 at 07:37.

11th March 2007, 21:11	#8 \| Link
jolson Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 117	I think one useful feature would be to be able to specify OPV for the main title and, after that is encoded and the size is known, the extras will have to do with what's left.