Convolution3D

-h · 30th August 2002, 00:32

I love it. It's the best. The greatest. Brilliant. Amazing.

That is all.

-h

ACClarke · 30th August 2002, 01:24

It's french

TheUnforgiven · 30th August 2002, 02:29

i love it too, thanx vlad

Bulletproof · 30th August 2002, 07:45

It's got me a bit confused

Convolution3D does Spatial and Temporal smoothing together right?

But how does that make it different from just manually adding a seperate Spatial filter into the chain and then a Temporal one?

Does it do special Dynamic things that make it benefit from doing both at once?

vlad59 · 30th August 2002, 07:47

@all

Wahoooo, too much thanks, I should be dreaming

Let's wake up

@ACClarke

In fact, it's more an international project :
idea comes from Germany (bb)
coding comes from France (I don't know who

)
testing comes from Turkey, Germany, ... (iago, Koepi, ...)
hosting comes from USA (Defiler)

@-h
I hope all the Xvid problems will stop as soon as possible.

I hope this weekend I could add some buffering to release v1.0.

Thanks again.

-h · 30th August 2002, 07:57

vlad, I just noticed the Tao avatar! I take it you're a MCoG fan?

I wish they'd play the english run of it again in the USA. Someone. On any station. Or just release the damn tapes. Ah well, can't have everything.

Oh and yes, I'm hoping for the XviD problems to stop ASAP as well

-h

vlad59 · 30th August 2002, 08:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Bulletproof
It's got me a bit confused

Convolution3D does Spatial and Temporal smoothing together right?

But how does that make it different from just manually adding a seperate Spatial filter into the chain and then a Temporal one?

Does it do special Dynamic things that make it benefit from doing both at once?

I'm afraid I have no 100% sure answer to make.

I think the point is here :
if you use the following script :
Temporal (...)
Spacial (...)

Spacial will always process already filtered frames so if the scene has no motion at all :
-> Temporal will smooth a little
-> Spacial will smooth a little more causing maybe some blurring.

if there has heavy motion :
-> Temporal can cause ghosting
-> Spacial will smooth the ghosting

The problem is that one of the filter will work with already filtered frame.

That's why Marc FD created MAM to apply Temporal to the source, apply Spacial to the source. And mix them to produce the result.

Convolution3D work with unfiltered source, apply the treshold check to ALL surrounding pixels (spacial and temporal) and calc the new pixel value.

That's maybe why, but I'm afraid I can be wrong or unclear.

@-h

Yes I'm a fan of MCoG.
We are more lucky than you in France. We have tapes and DVD. But the DVDs are crap : only french audio, no bonus, macroblock on the video.

bb · 30th August 2002, 09:58

Just wanted to add that Convolution3D is the best filter I ever tried for noisy TV captures or noisy low-light DV shots. Best noise removal while keeping detail as much as possible. And believe me - I tried a lot of different filters, and none of them could reach Convolution3D's quality.

bb

P.S.: I like the full 1 matrix best.

Antti · 30th August 2002, 10:43

I agree! I mostly deal with DV material (I rip dvd:s very rarely), and new cameras produce quite detailed but very noisy picture in low-light conditions. So far I have got best results with C3D. Sometimes I even add a light temporalsmoother filtering after it. But I wonder if just tweaking C3D parameters would do the same (maybe even better).

wotef · 30th August 2002, 11:05

hear, hear! the mother of all noise filters for analogue caps -

thank you vlad and bb

- hmm, as i said previously, i think it's ready to go on doom9's download page - those folks in the "capturing video" forum would be all over it, if they knew it existed

iago · 30th August 2002, 12:08

@vlad59 and everybody

I can say nothing else than I really appreciate this great work of vlad59 too. However, I'm trying it on only DVD rips

, hoping to find some reasonable settings to use, especially in cases of long and really hard-to-compress movies, in order to fit them on 1CD or 1XCD with better compressibility and without losing many details.

Maybe the settings (1,3,4,2,3,2.8,0) and (1,4,5,3,4,2.8,0)
discussed by wing1 and bb in the other thread, which I will try asap, help to achieve this.

kind regards to all,
iago

-h · 30th August 2002, 18:09

I guess I should say I've been using it for dark DV footage too.. somtimes up to Convolution3d(1, 18, 250, 20, 80, 40, 0) (!).

The results are far better than any combination of spatial/temporal I found previously. How do people think it compares to "commercial quality" filters, like you'd see in Premiere/Ulead/MC Pro?

-h

vlad59 · 30th August 2002, 18:32

Quote:

Originally posted by -h
I guess I should say I've been using it for dark DV footage too.. somtimes up to Convolution3d(1, 18, 250, 20, 80, 40, 0) (!).

-h

Wahoo, That's strong settings.
I personnaly never exceeded :
Convolution3d(1, 12, 30, 10, 10, 10, 0)
But I only used it on DVD sources wich will never be noisier than DV or analog sources.

ACClarke · 30th August 2002, 22:26

Quote:

Originally posted by vlad59

@-h

Yes I'm a fan of MCoG.
We are more lucky than you in France. We have tapes and DVD. But the DVDs are crap : only french audio, no bonus, macroblock on the video.

there is two version, one expensive and very bad (macroblocks....)made by sony if i remenber well.....
and a cheap one, 21 euros (22 dollars) for the 4 dvd, this release is better.

bill_baroud · 1st September 2002, 15:46

if i remember well, the cheapest ones, which are better, were only in half-Pal ... 352x576 , what a _great_ resolution for a DVD.

but the first release was worse :/ ... keep with the WHS ^^

vidiot · 1st September 2002, 18:07

Quote:

Originally posted by -h
I guess I should say I've been using it for dark DV footage too.. somtimes up to Convolution3d(1, 18, 250, 20, 80, 40, 0) (!).

The results are far better than any combination of spatial/temporal I found previously. How do people think it compares to "commercial quality" filters, like you'd see in Premiere/Ulead/MC Pro?

-h

Yes, depending on the quality of your camcorder.
If you try to capture dark scenes it often looks like salt and pepper.

So I think I´ve to try Conv3D for some of my DV footage, too.

Thanx

Harald

HarryM · 1st September 2002, 20:40

Convolution3d is great filter (I use it), but I am looking specially for filter, which

a) for unmoving parts of frame using temporal filtering
b) for moving parts of frame using spacial filtering

Do you know something, please?

ronnylov · 1st September 2002, 21:00

MAM can be used to apply temporal filter on low motion parts and spatial filter on high motion parts.

iago · 1st September 2002, 21:32

@Acaila and drizztcanrender,

Any fresh news about your filtering/convolution3d tests with your "DVD rips"?

best regards,
iago

^^-+I4004+-^^ · 2nd September 2002, 00:06

>hear, hear! the mother of all noise filters for analogue caps -

thank you vlad and bb

- hmm, as i said previously, i think it's ready to go on doom9's download page - those folks in the "capturing video" forum would be all over it, if they knew it existed

_have you all lost your mind??????????[here goes one "folk" from capturing video forum]

this filter is nothing but ANOTHER DNR....(by results it gives..)
& boy ohh boy did i tried it!
i've tried about 20(!) different combinations(especially for temporal part) & found that IT CANNOT REMOVE NOISE IN NON-MOVING-CAMERA scenes
(i've come up to "200"(!!!)& more for temporal part of the filter:noise was still there!!!just as with any other vdub's DNR filter....)

video was noisy,but no more than i ecounter every day& filter it nice with temp.smoother:still scenes on output have NO NOISE with t.s_.....convolution(what's this name anyway????) CANNOT stack to vdub's tsmoother!

HarryM said this:"Convolution3d is great filter (I use it), but I am looking specially for filter, which

a) for unmoving parts of frame using temporal filtering
b) for moving parts of frame using spacial filtering

Do you know something, please?"

_&wasn't this objective for c3d?to merge 2 filters in one?
also someone else mentioned "why not use 2 separate filters"-->it seems we'll have to until someone does real hard-core t/s smoothing filter!
but again_nothing wrong with using 2 filters is it...?

or is it just that ALL the poeple on this forum take dvd as a source /which already doesn't have any noise to start with/ & then denoise that....(this is NOT what denoiser's are ment to be used with!)-what's the point in sending "TESTS" with "SCREENSHOTS" when
dvd was the source???(i've dloaded 2 of these:nothing to see on them_nothing that would interest capturers...DENOISERS should BE for capturers...)

by your results i see that no one of you dealt with noisy vhs source,so this filter cannot be even mentioned in capturing context!
[so please mention it NOT in that context no more!]

30th August 2002, 00:32	#1 \| Link
-h Kilted Yaksman Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,303	Convolution3D I love it. It's the best. The greatest. Brilliant. Amazing. That is all. -h

30th August 2002, 02:29	#3 \| Link
TheUnforgiven XviDer Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 190	i love it too, thanx vlad __________________ www.the-unforgiven.info

30th August 2002, 07:47	#5 \| Link
vlad59 Vlad, the Buffy slayer Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: France Posts: 445	@all Wahoooo, too much thanks, I should be dreaming Let's wake up @ACClarke In fact, it's more an international project : idea comes from Germany (bb) coding comes from France (I don't know who ) testing comes from Turkey, Germany, ... (iago, Koepi, ...) hosting comes from USA (Defiler) @-h I hope all the Xvid problems will stop as soon as possible. I hope this weekend I could add some buffering to release v1.0. Thanks again. __________________ Vlad59 Convolution3D for avisynth 2.0X : http://www.hellninjacommando.com/con3d Convolution3D for avisynth 2.5 : http://www.hellninjacommando.com/con3d/beta

30th August 2002, 10:43	#9 \| Link
Antti Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 33	I agree! I mostly deal with DV material (I rip dvd:s very rarely), and new cameras produce quite detailed but very noisy picture in low-light conditions. So far I have got best results with C3D. Sometimes I even add a light temporalsmoother filtering after it. But I wonder if just tweaking C3D parameters would do the same (maybe even better). Last edited by Antti; 30th August 2002 at 11:23.

30th August 2002, 12:08	#11 \| Link
iago retired Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hollywood Posts: 1,013	convolution3d @vlad59 and everybody I can say nothing else than I really appreciate this great work of vlad59 too. However, I'm trying it on only DVD rips , hoping to find some reasonable settings to use, especially in cases of long and really hard-to-compress movies, in order to fit them on 1CD or 1XCD with better compressibility and without losing many details. Maybe the settings (1,3,4,2,3,2.8,0) and (1,4,5,3,4,2.8,0) discussed by wing1 and bb in the other thread, which I will try asap, help to achieve this. kind regards to all, iago Last edited by iago; 30th August 2002 at 12:20.

30th August 2002, 01:24	#2 \| Link
ACClarke Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: france Posts: 51	It's french

30th August 2002, 07:45	#4 \| Link
Bulletproof Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 318	It's got me a bit confused Convolution3D does Spatial and Temporal smoothing together right? But how does that make it different from just manually adding a seperate Spatial filter into the chain and then a Temporal one? Does it do special Dynamic things that make it benefit from doing both at once?

30th August 2002, 07:57	#6 \| Link
-h Kilted Yaksman Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,303	vlad, I just noticed the Tao avatar! I take it you're a MCoG fan? I wish they'd play the english run of it again in the USA. Someone. On any station. Or just release the damn tapes. Ah well, can't have everything. Oh and yes, I'm hoping for the XviD problems to stop ASAP as well -h

30th August 2002, 09:58	#8 \| Link
bb Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 2,665	Just wanted to add that Convolution3D is the best filter I ever tried for noisy TV captures or noisy low-light DV shots. Best noise removal while keeping detail as much as possible. And believe me - I tried a lot of different filters, and none of them could reach Convolution3D's quality. bb P.S.: I like the full 1 matrix best.

30th August 2002, 11:05	#10 \| Link
wotef Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 272	hear, hear! the mother of all noise filters for analogue caps - thank you vlad and bb - hmm, as i said previously, i think it's ready to go on doom9's download page - those folks in the "capturing video" forum would be all over it, if they knew it existed

30th August 2002, 18:09	#12 \| Link
-h Kilted Yaksman Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,303	I guess I should say I've been using it for dark DV footage too.. somtimes up to Convolution3d(1, 18, 250, 20, 80, 40, 0) (!). The results are far better than any combination of spatial/temporal I found previously. How do people think it compares to "commercial quality" filters, like you'd see in Premiere/Ulead/MC Pro? -h

1st September 2002, 15:46	#15 \| Link
bill_baroud Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 407	MCoG DVD if i remember well, the cheapest ones, which are better, were only in half-Pal ... 352x576 , what a _great_ resolution for a DVD. but the first release was worse :/ ... keep with the WHS ^^

1st September 2002, 20:40	#17 \| Link
HarryM Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Czech rep. Posts: 390	Spacial-temporal filter Convolution3d is great filter (I use it), but I am looking specially for filter, which a) for unmoving parts of frame using temporal filtering b) for moving parts of frame using spacial filtering Do you know something, please?

1st September 2002, 21:00	#18 \| Link
ronnylov Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Borås, Sweden Posts: 492	MAM can be used to apply temporal filter on low motion parts and spatial filter on high motion parts. __________________ Ronny

1st September 2002, 21:32	#19 \| Link
iago retired Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hollywood Posts: 1,013	@Acaila and drizztcanrender, Any fresh news about your filtering/convolution3d tests with your "DVD rips"? best regards, iago

2nd September 2002, 00:06	#20 \| Link
^^-+I4004+-^^ Banned Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia [local name:Hrvatska] Posts: 551	>hear, hear! the mother of all noise filters for analogue caps - thank you vlad and bb - hmm, as i said previously, i think it's ready to go on doom9's download page - those folks in the "capturing video" forum would be all over it, if they knew it existed _have you all lost your mind??????????[here goes one "folk" from capturing video forum] this filter is nothing but ANOTHER DNR....(by results it gives..) & boy ohh boy did i tried it! i've tried about 20(!) different combinations(especially for temporal part) & found that IT CANNOT REMOVE NOISE IN NON-MOVING-CAMERA scenes (i've come up to "200"(!!!)& more for temporal part of the filter:noise was still there!!!just as with any other vdub's DNR filter....) video was noisy,but no more than i ecounter every day& filter it nice with temp.smoother:still scenes on output have NO NOISE with t.s_.....convolution(what's this name anyway????) CANNOT stack to vdub's tsmoother! HarryM said this:"Convolution3d is great filter (I use it), but I am looking specially for filter, which a) for unmoving parts of frame using temporal filtering b) for moving parts of frame using spacial filtering Do you know something, please?" _&wasn't this objective for c3d?to merge 2 filters in one? also someone else mentioned "why not use 2 separate filters"-->it seems we'll have to until someone does real hard-core t/s smoothing filter! but again_nothing wrong with using 2 filters is it...? or is it just that ALL the poeple on this forum take dvd as a source /which already doesn't have any noise to start with/ & then denoise that....(this is NOT what denoiser's are ment to be used with!)-what's the point in sending "TESTS" with "SCREENSHOTS" when dvd was the source???(i've dloaded 2 of these:nothing to see on them_nothing that would interest capturers...DENOISERS should BE for capturers...) by your results i see that no one of you dealt with noisy vhs source,so this filter cannot be even mentioned in capturing context! [so please mention it NOT in that context no more!]