NVIDIA AVC 264 accell in drivers - any beta/rumors for 7800GTX??? [Archive] - Page 2

dragongodz

10th January 2006, 12:03

ok will throw this little bit in aswell.
http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2665&p=2

the claim is
In order to prove the support was functional, NVIDIA setup a Pentium D 830 with a GeForce 6600GT and tried to play back a 1080p H.264 encoded movie. CPU utilization across both cores was basically pegged at 100% while the CPU handled the entire decode.
Enabling hardware acceleration offloaded a good hunk of the decoding task onto the Geforce 6600GT, reducing CPU utilization to around 50% or less:

OF COURSE lets wait and see how true that holds when consumers actually get to test for themselves.

and OF COURSE some people will have good enough performance from just using something like coreavc and not be interested in using this(gpu accelerated decoder) at all.

videomixer9

10th January 2006, 12:22

of course it is interesting to put the load on the gpu even with something like coreavc that enables my fx 5600 athlon xp 3000+ system to play 1080p at less than 80% cpu already and most of apples 1080 trailers with almost 50% cpu, however it would be good to see this go down to 10-30% :) ... point is that this hardware acceleration will probably lead more companies to not do good programming ... when apple presented 1080 trailers and they stuttered around I thought ... damn you need a new PC, that time the h264 acceleration by graphics hardware seemed to be nice, then libav did way more effective decoding and I thought, well you can live with stutter free 720p as your screen is only 1280x1024 anyways and it perfectly fits into this, now seeing how effective CoreAVC does the decoding I think "hell, they made a fool out of you the whole time!"

AlexeyS

11th January 2006, 13:25

What I need to install to see nVidia's AVC acceleration?

slavickas

11th January 2006, 13:49

What I need to install to see nVidia's AVC acceleration?
unreleased drivers and probably unreleased unknown player

AlexeyS

11th January 2006, 13:57

unreleased drivers and probably unreleased unknown player
So, there is still no decoder? :scared:

dragongodz

11th January 2006, 15:10

my fx 5600
of course this gpu acceleration is for 6xxx generation cards and up so not for yours. :)

point is that this hardware acceleration will probably lead more companies to not do good programming
thats a guess. if you look at something like quicktime then some companies already do bad programming. just because they can also have the option of using the gpu aswell doent automatically mean they will suddenly not bother to make their code better or faster etc. i am sure it wont suddenly make the guys at ffmpeg or coreavc stop what they are doing either.

unreleased drivers
the version mentioned is 85 so yes unreleased.

probably unreleased unknown player
huh ? how is it unknown ? to quote from earlier -
In order to take advantage of the H.264 decode acceleration you will need two things: 1) Compliant InterVideo WinDVD, CyberLink PowerDVD or Nero software, and 2) a NVIDIA driver enabling the support.
also they will may release a new version of purevideo with this enabled aswell.
but yes the versions with this are not released yet as you say.

FFWD

11th January 2006, 15:21

The Vista December CTP (buld 5270) ships with the 85.05 LDDM drivers. I don't know if H.264 acceleration already works.

It makes no sense that PureVideo will be required, because you will be using a third party decoder.

Sharktooth

11th January 2006, 16:11

Win Vista will have DirectX Video Acceleration 2.0 that enables h.264 acceleration in a common API (DXVA).
That means no "dedicated players" or "third party decoders" are needed.
Just DXVA 2.0 support ...

dragongodz

12th January 2006, 02:35

It makes no sense that PureVideo will be required, because you will be using a third party decoder.
nobody said purevideo will be required. it appears you will have a choice of what software(windvd,powerdvd etc) you buy that supports the playback. purevideo is just another decoder aswell so if you use 1 of the others then of course you wouldnt need it.
however if you have already bought purevideo and not the other programs and nvidia offer an upgrade(free or cheap, no saying they will now they are partnering of course) then it would simply be another option.

Win Vista will have DirectX Video Acceleration 2.0 that enables h.264 acceleration in a common API (DXVA).
That means no "dedicated players" or "third party decoders" are needed.
and when is vista due to be released again and for how much ? ;)

Xayd

21st January 2006, 20:04

actually i'm quite interested in this.

as far as decoders go, i find purevideo to be superior to anything from the DVD software makers and ATI, ESPECIALLY for HD content. not sure about DVD but who cares about DVD? a P3 700mhz CPU can play DVD.

and yes dragongodz i agree, there's no restriction on what you use for playback with purevideo now, which to me suggests there's no reason for them to limit it in the future, unless they wish to stop selling it and gain alot of negative press and reaction from the limited audience that purevideo has.

i'm not interested in buying a 300-400 dollar video card to play back h264. nor am I interested in buying a 200-300 dollar CPU to play back h264. if nvidia can provide a decoder that will do so on my slightly dated CPU and a 150 dollar video card more power to them.

BetaBoy

21st January 2006, 20:36

unreleased drivers and probably unreleased unknown player
Not if I can help it....

FFWD

24th January 2006, 14:44

InterVideo H.264 Codec Combines With NVIDIA Hardware to Accelerate High-Definition Decoding (http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20060123005286&newsLang=en)

Not if I can help it....
Is your codec going to support h/w decoding? Have you contacted nVidia about it?

BetaBoy

24th January 2006, 15:19

Yes.... (on the H/W decoding) But I cannot provide any more details at this moment.

bond

24th January 2006, 15:23

InterVideo H.264 Codec Combines With NVIDIA Hardware to Accelerate High-Definition Decoding (http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20060123005286&newsLang=en)very interesting, thx a lot!
so finally we know cyberlink will be on ati's side and intervideo on nvidia's. intervideo till now used the videosoft decoder, which only supported main profile (windvd also had problems playing .mp4 files last time it was tested on doom9)
anyone knowing if videosoft is still used by intervideo, now with the nvidia support?

but actually arent updated nvidia drivers needed with support for h.264 for making a decoder, like one from intervideo, work? if i look at the nvidia site i dont see any...

Is your codec going to support h/w decoding? Have you contacted nVidia about it? coreavc is so fast, i think it might be able to beat or be on par with the ati/nvidia accelerated decoders without being gpu supported itself :D
we tried to measure the speed of the ati acceleration but it wasnt possible with the currently available tools (haalis timecodec and elecards chegepuga) so we dont know yet how it performs compared to the hw stuff

i wonder if it will be possible to measure the decoding speed with nvidias stuff?

FFWD

24th January 2006, 15:46

but actually arent updated nvidia drivers needed with support for h.264 for making a decoder, like one from intervideo, work? if i look at the nvidia site i dont see any...You need ForceWare 85 series drivers (not available at the moment). nVidia is testing these drivers as we speak (they are already in the Vista December CTP).Availability

NVIDIA ForceWare drivers featuring the NVIDIA PureVideo H.264 decode acceleration will be available in Q1'06. For more information on NVIDIA products, visit http://www.nvidia.com.

Yes.... (on the H/W decoding) But I cannot provide any more details at this moment.Sweet!

ChronoReverse

24th January 2006, 18:20

Yes.... (on the H/W decoding) But I cannot provide any more details at this moment.

If a dshow filter that uses the h/w decoder is sold by you guys, I will be purchasing your software for sure. I just hope you take international orders online =)

Ice =A=

24th January 2006, 18:26

bond:
we tried to measure the speed of the ati acceleration but it wasnt possible with the currently available tools (haalis timecodec and elecards chegepuga) so we dont know yet how it performs compared to the hw stuff Couldn't you compare cpu utilization for at least some indication?

bond

24th January 2006, 18:39

Couldn't you compare cpu utilization for at least some indication?tell me a way to measure the average cpu utilization of a decoding process

additionally it should be easy to do, so newbies, owning such ati cards, can do it without messing the results

Ice =A=

24th January 2006, 18:46

Ok, I was just thinking of the windows taskmanager and an "approximative visual comparison"... :)
However, there seem to be a few tools for an average cpu utilization over a given time (like CPUMeter ).
Admittedly that will be difficult with different cpus and pcs in general...

bond

24th January 2006, 18:51

However, there seem to be a few tools for an average cpu utilization over a given time (like CPUMeter ).any more infos on that?

Admittedly that will be difficult with different cpus and pcs in general... its enough if one person compares coreavc vs ati/nvidia on his/her pc for getting an idea :)

bill_baroud

24th January 2006, 22:26

using the windows "perfmon" tool could give you an average cpu time over a period of time, without installing anything fancy :)

bond

24th January 2006, 22:30

using the windows "perfmon" tool could give you an average cpu time over a period of time, without installing anything fancy :)hm where do i find this?

slavickas

24th January 2006, 22:39

win->run->perfmon

Ice =A=

24th January 2006, 22:57

Sorry, I just saw that CPUMeter supports Windows98 only. Maybe Performance Monitor would do the trick, look here (http://www.windowsnetworking.com/j_helmig/wxpperfm.htm)or here (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/Axapta/COMbasic/Monitoring_Axapta/combasic_performance_monitor.asp)(however I don't know that tool, I'm just guessing it would do what we want!).

Edit: "Performance Monitor" just happens to be "perfmon"! Man, somehow I'm slow off the mark today... ;)

bond

24th January 2006, 23:16

hm perfmon looks interesting, thx for the hint! any idea if there is an option to output some history data about the past cpu useage to a log file?

bond

25th January 2006, 01:38

i now measured the speed on an avc clip with the three different available methods:
- elecard chegepuga
- haali timecodec
- perfmon

results:
null video output:

chegepuga:
- ffdshow: 45.00 fps
- coreavc: 74.12 fps +64.71%

timecodec dfps:
- ffdshow: 44.1 fps
- coreavc: 72.5 fps +64.4%

timecodec fps:
- ffdshow: 45.4 fps
- coreavc: 74.2 fps +63.4%

perfmon:
- ffdshow: 55.584%
- coreavc: 32.066% +57.69%vmr7 video output:

timecodec dfps:
- ffdshow: 25.6 fps
- coreavc: 35.6 fps +39%

timecodec fps:
- ffdshow: 35.8 fps
- coreavc: 51.8 fps +44%

perfmon:
- ffdshow: 72.919%
- coreavc: 48.392% +66.36%so imho perfmon seems to be useable when using null renderer, decoding only

when comparing video playback there seem to be problems. any idea why?

FFWD

25th January 2006, 14:21

I found this on connect.microsoft.com :
DirectX Software Development Kit Beta program
12/1/2005 - 5/31/2006

Maybe it's useful for codec programmers to implement DXVA2.0 support.

Selur

25th January 2006, 23:05

CoreAVC +Hardwaresupport for my 6600GT would be da bomb :D

CruNcher

26th January 2006, 00:59

Usage of neither Nvidias nor Atis properiartary system would be a bomb :D so that older not supported Gpus could also benefit from it partialy ;)

AlexeyS

12th February 2006, 07:31

Are there any decoders available which can accelerate AVC video with nVidia's gpus?

FFWD

12th February 2006, 11:36

Only ATi's 1x00 series have AVC acceleration for the time being :
http://www.cyberlink.com/cinema/ati/h264_decoder/enu/index.jsp

AlexeyS

12th February 2006, 12:10

Only ATi's 1x00 series have AVC acceleration for the time being :
http://www.cyberlink.com/cinema/ati/h264_decoder/enu/index.jsp
I've already bought nVidia video card. Do you know when decoder for nVidia gpus will available?

bond

12th February 2006, 13:26

there are not even drivers available allowing h.264 acceleration on nvidia cards...

anyways cyberlink and intervideo announced that they will release decoders able to use the nvidia gpu

AlexeyS

12th February 2006, 14:34

Doom9

12th February 2006, 14:40

Did they say when this decoder will be available?some time in 2006.

bond

12th February 2006, 14:48

Did they say when this decoder will be available?i am not sure if you understood what i said: even if the decoder would be available today you wont be able to use it, as there is not driver from nvidia that allows decoders to make use of the gpu for avc

Sharktooth

13th February 2006, 08:04

Nvidia is working closely with MS to implement AVC acceleration in DXVA 2.0.
The major issue with that is DXVA 2.0 will be a Vista-only feature...
Maybe nvidia will come up with an alternative solution (like avivio) for the older windows versions or maybe MS will ship a new DirectX version (i highly doubt it).

FFWD

13th February 2006, 16:14

Microsoft plans to ship a new DirectX update (internally called DirectX 9.0L) for Windows XP. XP does not get a DXVA 2.0. Both ATi and nVidia work with third party ISV's (Nero, InterVideo, Cyberlink and CoreCodec among others) to offer accelleration for H.264/AVC content for XP users.

bond

13th February 2006, 16:41

interesting, tough this doesnt make sure that a h.264 dxva will be included there (knowing m$ wanting to push both wmv9 (meaning having no interest in supporting h.264) and vista i would assume this is not likely to be included)

FFWD

23rd February 2006, 02:01

Look at this (http://home.wanadoo.nl/mvp35/nvcinema_bda.png), a NVCinema BDA Driver is installed on Vista build 5308 (Feb CTP). Is 'BDA' Blu-ray Disc Association or Blu-ray Disc Acceleration? What's the purpose of this driver? Some secret HDCP DRM driver or an AVC Acceleration API or even something else? The installed nVidia driver is version 86.82

23rd February 2006, 03:31

Maybe it has got something to do with the Broadcast Driver Architecture (http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/broadcast.mspx).

Ronin-7

23rd February 2006, 11:23

NVIDIA did have a product called personal cinema it was a combo TV tuner graphics card if I'm not mistaken do you have one of those as that could be related to it. Also as NW links to above if you Google BDA driver it will bring back results pertaining to a TV tuner driver for Windows.

carlo_0000

26th February 2006, 04:47

there are not even drivers available allowing h.264 acceleration on nvidia cards...

anyways cyberlink and intervideo announced that they will release decoders able to use the nvidia gpu

you are wrong

the hardware support for mpeg4 work perfectly with my gf6600 end vlc player

i play mkv (ac3 +x264) or divx with 0% cpu usage

when i play it with an other player is use 40% cpu usage

that is a big difference

http://perso.latribu.com/tribu/local.JPG

26th February 2006, 11:05

No. VLC doesn't even support DXVA (https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/151) (GPU acceleration interface for MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 ASP among others). Seems that in your case its CPU usage doesn't get counted to the VLC process. There is one program/thread in your list that uses 99% CPU. What is that?

foxyshadis

26th February 2006, 11:11

That would be system idle processes, whatever the italian name for it is. :p Note the 0K VM size, it's the only one that can do that.

carlo_0000

26th February 2006, 16:31

it's not italian it's french :)

it s a athlon 64 2800+ asus + 512mb ram gf6600

for me i m very sure it is supported

vlc use 0 to 1%

when i use virtualdub in same time than playing something with vlc
virtualdub use 99% cpu usage

than we can't say vlc procces is not count

i olso try to play some videos on an other computer athlon xp 2000+ 52 ram gf fx5600

vlc use 45% cpu usage i have use the same setting in vlc :confused: