Subtitle fps conversion

[svcdprayer]

I have 2 types of subtitles for the same movie with same subtitle extension (srt). But the problem is i would like to convert ENGLISH subtitles from NTSC dvd
framerate 29.97, to pal to match subtitle from pal DVD same movie.

but when i do conversion with subtitle workshop, i enter input fps 29.97, open subtitle select output to 25. it dosent match the time code from original pal dvd.
why ?
where is the problem ?

[ai4spam]

Well, don't always trust the subtitles to match exactly. Try this: make sure that both subtitles start and end with the same lines, then open the de-synchronized subtitle, go to Edit->Adjust->Timings->Adjust to synchronized subtitles, pick the synchronized subtitle this time, and you should have it synchronized.

[svcdprayer]

Yes but that trick works only if the desynchronized subtitle has the same number of lines with synched ones. And pal dvd dosent have same ammount of lines as ntsc dvd.

how to fix this ?
and why conversion fps from ntsc to pal dosent work?

can anyone give me proper answer?

Thanks

[ai4spam]

No, you're wrong, it doesn't matter if the number of lines are different. What this "trick" does is take the times of the 1st and last frame from the good subtitle, compute the total duration as the difference between them, adjust the bad subtitle to have the same duration, then add the timestamp of the first frame to obtain the final result.
Oh, and there's always "the hard way": use SubtitleWorkshop's sync function by setting 2 sync points in the movie. The results won't be as accurate as what I suggested earlier.

Bottom line: try it before you say "it doesn't work" and "you didn't give the proper answer" ;).

[svcdprayer]

Ill try and post you back :)

However i think that i saw that on sworkshop saying that work only if same ammount of lines for both subs.

Thanks.Ill try we will see how it will go :))

[svcdprayer]

What i have done is this: ive made that synched sub has first and last line the same as in desynched. The ammount of synched sub lines are not the same compared desynched subs.

Then opened in workshop desynched sub and done adjust from synched sub. and guess what : it didnt work correctly. I tried some in beginning. that worked but when i went in the middle of the movie subs were desynched :)

[ai4spam]

Thanks for the reply. What you say may be due to various reasons, EXCEPT SubtitleWorkshop not doing its job:
1) the desynched sub is for another version of the movie (like theatrical vs director's cut), and the only way to sync it up is to open it alongside the synched one and manually change the lines where the translations don't match (it will take hours to do so, if you're unlucky)
2) the desynched sub was joined together from a 2CD version of the movie, and it was done improperly; in this case try to use the 2-point sync method:
* set the first sync point at the first line
* set a second sync point at, let's say 1/3 of the movie - just double-click a subtitle, then watch the movie and set the sync point when that subtitle is spoken (presumably it will already be de-synched by that time, if you say it's off in the middle)
* check if, until that line, the subs are synchronized - if they're not, use an earlier subtitle as your second sync point, and pray that you're not in case 1)
* go to various points later in the movie until the first line that is no longer synchronized (ideally, after some subtitle, it will just become unshynched)
* cut the lines after it and save the first synched part of the subtitle
* press Ctrl-Z to undo cutting, and cut the lines you just saved instead
* do the whole 2-point sync procedure again until you run out of subtitles
* if subtitles go out of sync gradually, then you're out of luck, you may be in case 1)

Again, none of this has anything to do with SubtitleWorksop's functionality, I used the "Adjust to synchronized subtitles" countless times, and it worked great. You just stumbled upon a subtitle that can't be easily synchronized in the first place.

[svcdprayer]

The problem is that NTSC version of dvd i had got scratched, and i dont have machine wich remove scratches and i couldnt rip english subs from it to the end, then i recently got pal version, but didnt have english subs. So what i wanted to do is to get movie synched with english. What im trying to accomplish here:
Is i got subs from my language hardburned ones. from tv capture :) then i wanted to apply is get part of english subs from ntsc version apply to pal dvd version and mix it with hardburned subs :)
So what i want to accomplish is this :

I have done is i have cutted hardburned subs that first line and last line matches the ntsc version. as described in previous post as you told me and got it desynched in the middle. apart from this hardburned subs works perfect on pal dvd version.

Any suggestion? :)

How i can check wheter the version is director's cut or not?

And also why workshop has feature of fps in , and out if it cant convert ? :)

Thanks

[MvB]

If you get your subtitle from a ntsc movie dvd then they should be 23.976 fps.

Try to convert from 23.976 to 25, should work.

[ai4spam]

Any suggestion? :)
How i can check wheter the version is director's cut or not?
And also why workshop has feature of fps in , and out if it cant convert ? :)
Sounds to me like you're in case 1) for whatever reason (different version, improper join...).
Unfortunately, the only solution is the translator mode: load the synched sub as the original, then the unsynched one as the translation, and use the shortcuts Ctrl-Shift-1 and Ctrl-Shift-3 to delete and insert rows in the translation so that the subs match. If you're lucky, you may not have to do much, but sometimes 1 line in the original gets split into 2 lines in the translation, or 2 lines in the original get joined into 1 line in the translation, so you may need to move text around with copy and paste. Bottom line: it can take anywhere from 3 minutes to 5 hours to fix things. I'd say you're better off looking for another version online.
As for SW, there are things it doesn't do properly, and unfortunately the guys at UruSoft are not very quick in responding to bug reports, at least in my experience.