No more DECRYPTER..... [Archive] - Page 4

Malphas

14th June 2005, 21:47

It doesn't really matter, there's just no need for the thread to repeat itself over and over or start going off-topic (which I guess is what I'm doing now, sorry).

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=667330#post667330

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=671422#post671422

mrslacker

14th June 2005, 22:08

dragongodz

15th June 2005, 12:16

A so called 'DECRYPTER' can be stopped/sued for DMCA infrightment (protections circumvention), a backup tool not (here in EU, backup copies are legal).
maybe in some countries of the EU but is that so in the U.K where Lightning UK lives ? it would appear not from this
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=df36a0n3k7c6m?tname=copyright-law-of-the-united-kingdom&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc04b

go down to the "Fair Dealing and other exceptions" part. it sounds a similar situation as it is here in Australia. no fair use, though atleast our government have said they are thinking of introducing it.
also from what i read of some of Germanys DMCA before they ban even mentioning any tools that break protections from websites. so to say the whole EU says you can make backups is not correct.

as for saying Dvddecrypter is not a backup tool anyway which is why it could be stopped, thats false. the fact is you can read a dvd to an iso image and then burn said iso, though with dvd9's you would need a DL burner of course. so it can easily be called a backup tool.

the real issue i think is the breaking of so called copy protections such as macrovision and css. i should say effective protections but since they are not i wont. :D
so macrovision are scared LUK would break their ripguard as easily as he did arccos and took steps to stop it.

LIGHTNING UK!

15th June 2005, 13:11

I've alerted xthost.info (the web hosting for the fake site), and they have removed it. Actually, I'm surprised they did so. If it makes LUK!'s life easier, I'm happy they deleted it.

Maybe the topic will stop coming up.

Actually, I don't think that was down to you!

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1021247&postcount=122

It's amazing they can react so quickly to these things now and yet it took them almost 2 years to ask me to stop.

SeeMoreDigital

15th June 2005, 13:20

Nice to see you on the forum again :)

Is there anything we can do to help you in your current plight?

Cheers

LIGHTNING UK!

15th June 2005, 13:45

Unless you can change laws, I doubt it!

Thanks for asking though :)

SeeMoreDigital

15th June 2005, 13:56

Are you able to tell us whether MacroVision will be seeking damages/court action?

Cheers

LIGHTNING UK!

15th June 2005, 14:06

Not at the moment I can't no.

Maybe more will become clear when the whole things has been done and dusted.

SeeMoreDigital

15th June 2005, 14:21

Thanks again for keeping us apprised with your situation.

Hopefully, talking to us will not place you in any further difficulties :(

Cheers

Chetwood

15th June 2005, 15:11

also from what i read of some of Germanys DMCA before they ban even mentioning any tools that break protections from websites.

More info in english on The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/11/heise_not_allowed_to_mention_slysoft/).

I don't think they have a law as extensive as the 'DMCA' in Germany. The problem is that although your right to fair use still remains you are prevented from actually using it since you are not to allowed to circumvent any copy protection. You have the right to do a copy of a CD you OWN UNLESS it is copy protected.

The other problem is that anyone who sents an lawyer after you to issue an injunction does not have to pay their fee but you, the target of the injunction does. And since this fee derives from the amount in dispute (correct term?) which is also set by said lawyer you are quickly facing extensive figures. Curiously enough you have to pay this fee even if you decide to sign the injunction and cease and desist what you were doing. The only way around having to pay this is to go to court with all the risks and costs involved...

So the only solution to this problem is to develop upcoming tools with DVDD's functionality (maybe someone picks up where Smartripper stopped) as Open Source and/or distribute them from countries with more userfriendly laws like France. Once it's somewhere out there there's no stopping it.

SeeMoreDigital

15th June 2005, 15:28

And just to underline the current situation. Earlier today Doom9 reported on his news page, the following... Last but not least a word of warning: they may look pretty official, may even have the word official in the title, but the official DVD Decrypter homepage is down and will stay down until further notice (you'll hear it here, don't trust any report unless it comes from a reputable news site). And there will be no new version of DVD Decrypter.

Perhaps the software will be able to exist in another form once the legal dust has settled, but for now the version you can find on this site is the latest. If you try anything else, you run the risk of getting infected by viruses, trojans, or whatnot.

So stay away from a site that a friend of a friend heard about...

Cheers

mrslacker

15th June 2005, 17:29

Actually, I don't think that was down to you!

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1021247&postcount=122

It's amazing they can react so quickly to these things now and yet it took them almost 2 years to ask me to stop.
Not surprisingly, that guy is full of s**t. He was using r8.org to redirect to xthost.info, a free hosting service. In the xthost forum, I told them the fake site was an annoyance. Three hours later, the admin deleted the site. See the thread. (http://dhost.info/forums/index.php?showtopic=6274)

Maybe this wasn't my place to say anything, but the admin at xthost.info definitely took the site down in response to my post there. Just trying to help you out LIGHTNING UK!.

mrslacker

15th June 2005, 17:38

It appears he has moved it to geocities now. Here's the new fake location: http://www.geocities.com/freedvddecrypter/index.html . It is also directed to from www.dvddecrypter.r8.org. He's not done yet apparently.

EDIT: Whatever, it's just a mirror.

Malphas

16th June 2005, 03:21

I'm not a legal expert or anything but I think LUK would have had a good chance in court, these types of companies like to send out strongly worded emails/letters with the hope that it should be enough to discourage people when they may not even be that confident of their case - just look at how many CoDs The Pirate bay has recieved and what legal action has come about as a result (although of course what The Pirate Bay does is completely different to just creating a tool for people to make personal back-ups).

Of course I probably would have done the same thing in Lightning's shoes, it's perfectly understandable that you don't want to risk large fines or other penalties over the situation.

m1ckran

16th June 2005, 08:26

Glad you're still around LUK. :thanks:

And thanks to the people who responded to my post about LUK's welfare. I didn't think of cdfreaks; Doom9 is much nicer. I was almost beginning to feel that some people were more interested in their own ripping problems than in the man himself. People matter more.

I still don't understand how a company can produce a product "not fit for the purpose for which it was intended" (legal term) then sue everyone who exposes it for what it is.

I'm angry with the whole media industry in general and, although I'm not being bolshie, I find that I'm losing interest in the whole music/movie business. It's not as if the artistical quality is there anymore (with only a few exceptions, Smeagol), but I'm beginning to feel insulted whenever I buy a DVD. I think I'll be buying fewer DVD's in future. If you kick a dog often enough, you can't complain if it doesn't come to you anymore.

SeeMoreDigital

16th June 2005, 15:04

There is certainly a need for an application such as DVD Decrypter, even if it did not do any actual "decrypting" :eek:

I regularly receive non encrypted DVD's from people within the media industry and find DVD Decrypter offers a perfect level of flexibility ie: de-muxing by chapter, stream processing, saving to ISO, burning etc. So I don't (always) use it to "decrypt"

That said, if such an new style DVD application just happened to function in-conjunction with an third party decrypting tool... then I guess I'll just have to put up with it ;)

I wonder what we could call such a tool? DVD Investigator, DVD Info4U... What do you guys think?

Cheers

MSlv

16th June 2005, 16:59

Or just DVD Decrypter, in memory of "the good old days"
:D

absinthe

16th June 2005, 19:16

I've been thinking that if I could write such a program, I'd call it ....

Ripster

-abs

m1ckran

16th June 2005, 19:40

... Or DVD Lightning!

SeeMoreDigital

16th June 2005, 20:13

... Or DVD Lightning!I like that name... It would be the ultimate homage to an DVD hero :D

Cheers

feedback

16th June 2005, 20:22

I like that name... It would be the ultimate homage to an DVD hero

I believe homage has been paid, somewhat.

The New Free Program (http://www.dvdidle.com/download/DVDFabDecrypter29.exe) has changed it's name to DVDFAB Decrypter.

Regards,:)

SeeMoreDigital

16th June 2005, 20:48

I believe homage has been paid, somewhat.

The New Free Program (http://www.dvdidle.com/download/DVDFabDecrypter29.exe) has changed it's name to DVDFAB Decrypter.

Regards,:)Don't get me wrong, it's good to have free DVD decrypting tools... but DVDFabDecrypyer is sadly hardly in the same league as DVD Decrypter :(

Cheers

feedback

16th June 2005, 21:06

hardly in the same league as DVD Decrypter

Not to many app's are in the same league. Still, it's the thought that counts.

Regards,:)

wild77

16th June 2005, 21:24

It seems LIGHTNING UK! is in a leauge of his own to bring us such a great program for free.Better than 99% of the commercial software out there.He was the man and always will be as far as I am concerned.

As for the name how about?

DVD LIGHTNING!!
The Ultimate Burner!!! :devil:

Best of Luck to LIGHTNING UK!

Jack'n'xbox

16th June 2005, 23:33

There is certainly a need for an application such as DVD Decrypter, even if it did not do any actual "decrypting" :eek:

I regularly receive non encrypted DVD's from people within the media industry and find DVD Decrypter offers a perfect level of flexibility ie: de-muxing by chapter, stream processing, saving to ISO, burning etc. So I don't (always) use it to "decrypt"

Cheers
You said friend DVDD is and all around tool. It dose so much and its stability with other software is remarkable.

cypher_soundz

17th June 2005, 15:05

well i will throw another random name out there :D
LIGHTNING DVD BURNER! or LIGHTNING'S DVD BURNER!
would there be a problem if L.UK released the souce code with out any decrypting algo's in the code? they can't do/say anything to him then and with a little bit of know how i dont think it would be to hard to implement a working version again ;) (with a little help from Frank A. Stevenson and Ethan Hawke etc etc) sneeky sneeky lol
Regards
cyph

dirio49

17th June 2005, 18:50

how about LIGHTNING BURNER!
The One And Only!

duffyy

20th June 2005, 07:24

Firstly, is there any need to remove analogue protection from a DVD, Macrovision, if there is no intention to copy the DVD to a VHS tape?

Secondly, who still copies DVDs to VHS tape these days, with the price of blank DVDs well below the cost of blank VHS tapes? ( In SA the price of blank DVDs are 1/4 of the price of a blank VHS tape.)

Bearing the above in mind, and if the answer to point 1 is no, could "LIGHTNING" not release the software excluding the analogue protection removal scheme? ( Macrovision have no control over any protection scheme that is not theirs ), unless of couse if the digital copy protect is also theirs.

Why would Macrovision still hang on to an almost obsolete copy protection scheme? It appears that a number of studios no longer make use of their scheme and that Macrovision are therefore trying to capitilise on other methods of earning a living (ie lawsuits).

I may be wrong in my thinking, as I am not heavily involved in the technical terms of copy protections, and if I am wrong, I apologise.

LIGHTNING UK, we are behind you. thanks you for your great work.

Doom9

20th June 2005, 07:46

Firstly, is there any need to remove analogue protection from a DVD, Macrovision, if there is no intention to copy the DVD to a VHS tape?No

Secondly, who still copies DVDs to VHS tape these days, with the price of blank DVDs well below the cost of blank VHS tapes? ( In SA the price of blank DVDs are 1/4 of the price of a blank VHS tape.)I'm afraid most people are incapable of copying a DVD on their PC so they need a standalone recorder, and those are definitely not available in most households.. plus they'd use analogue connectors again.. and here comes Macrovision..

I cannot give any details about what was mentioned in the charges, right now we only have Macrovision, but it has already been voiced that since Arccos was broken rather quickly, Macrovisio might be worried about their Ripguard metting the same fate and thus this was a preventive strike.

iNFO-DVD

20th June 2005, 08:03

Firstly, is there any need to remove analogue protection from a DVD, Macrovision, if there is no intention to copy the DVD to a VHS tape?Actually yes, when I was doing my ripper lots of people would ask for macrovision removal because they used to display their movies via a projector which, I was told, plays up just like a VCR when Macrovision is present.

Mug Funky

20th June 2005, 08:51

a friend of mine needed to buy a de-macrovision box so his grandmother could watch DVDs on her RF only TV. the DVD player obviously didn't have RF-out, so it had to be run into the VCR and passed through that into the TV. in this case macrovision doesn't even allow you to watch your own DVDs. of course the solution to buying a de-macrovision box is to copy the disc without macrovision.

SeeMoreDigital

20th June 2005, 09:00

Why did your friend not buy his grand-mother an "scart/composite video to RF converter"? :D

Cheers

Chetwood

20th June 2005, 10:33

Firstly, is there any need to remove analogue protection from a DVD, Macrovision, if there is no intention to copy the DVD to a VHS tape?

I'm also surprised to see some ppl still work with tapes, I was so happy to dump all that crap and move to CD-R/DVD-R when it finally was achieveable. Of course if you have your valued holiday movies or something but even then you should consider digitizing them.

Bearing the above in mind, and if the answer to point 1 is no, could "LIGHTNING" not release the software excluding the analogue protection removal scheme? ( Macrovision have no control over any protection scheme that is not theirs ), unless of couse if the digital copy protect is also theirs.

From the bits I've gathered I think it's safe to say that LUK! won't release anything barely resembling DVDD for the time being due to the gagging order forced upon him.

Like Doom9 already suggested it's most likely due to their upcoming copy protection "RipGuard" that they took LUK! out of the race. Which in itself would totally discourage me as a Hollywood studio from paying $$$ for said protection cause it WILL be circumvented in no time by someone else anyway.

geffroman

20th June 2005, 10:43

It seems LIGHTNING UK! is in a leauge of his own to bring us such a great program for free.

LUK is in a league all his own... But his software was ONLY FREE for the cheap bastards that never donated!

Think about that for those of you that took.... took.... and still take... Give something to some of these guys every once in a while... You never know when it's too late...

SeeMoreDigital

20th June 2005, 11:07

Think about that for those of you that took.... took.... and still take... Give something to some of these guys every once in a while... You never know when it's too late... There could be a more dangerous side to this point... For all those people who have forwarded contributions to Lightning UK... I would hate to think that MacroVision has a list of their names :eek:

Cheers

fraorlando

20th June 2005, 11:38

Yes money can be easely traced. No one who engages in activity critical to corporate interests should take money through a credit card system, especially not paypal, since it is well known for freezing accounts and so on.
And i wouldnt send money either per paypal or credit card for such uses, sorry.
And LUK had a paypal account. I think they have found him that way.

What about anonymous postboxes and recieving money per snail mai for such uses?

Chetwood

20th June 2005, 16:13

Yes money can be easely traced. No one who engages in activity critical to corporate interests should take money through a credit card system, especially not paypal, since it is well known for freezing accounts and so on.

Don't get paranoid, guys. Do you really think Macrovision would come after each one of you who donated to DVDD? Besides, there are countries where you can use those tools legally and/or you could have been using it for legal purposes like DVD burning. I'm using DVDD to burn my DVD-Rs cause I don't like bloatware like Nero especially if I do have to download 30+ MB to get support for my new writer.

@geffroman

That's just they way it is. I've got about 5000 downloads of MultiShrink and about 7 ppl of them donated.

fraorlando

20th June 2005, 17:08

@ chetwood : Personally, i've no problem with the legality of tools for private backups :) And yes, i think they wont go after people who donated - they wouldnt had anything in hand to proof any form of illegality.
Also i think LUK would have succeeded in court - like DVD John did because the legal grounds are quite shaky on matters of private copying.
Anyway, i think without a paypal account, macrivision would never found out about his whereabouts. sic!

Chetwood

20th June 2005, 17:54

Anyway, i think without a paypal account, macrivision would never found out about his whereabouts. sic!

I assume it was either his domain or forum registered to his real name or something.

wild77

21st June 2005, 06:19

LUK is in a league all his own... But his software was ONLY FREE for the cheap bastards that never donated!

Think about that for those of you that took.... took.... and still take... Give something to some of these guys every once in a while... You never know when it's too late...

After getting burned by 321 studios Xcopy crap! I was lucky enough to find Afterdawn, Doom9 and the Shrink site. Decrypter was the only ripper that never let me down. The Decrypter~Shrink combo is hard to beat at any price! I donated to LIGHTNING UK! without a problem and would do the same again for any Legal issues he might need help with. If Macrovision worked as hard as LIGHTNING on there products they would not need to sue everyone,they would have a product that works!

Best of luck to the one and only LIGHTNING UK!

Screw Macrovision!

jwo62

21st June 2005, 06:43

I dont even see why macrovision inc would even give a crap if dvdd removed macrovison from a dvd. its not like someone who can copy a whole dvd on thier pc is then going to try and copy it to vhs.

goober22

21st June 2005, 13:58

I dont even see why macrovision inc would even give a crap if dvdd removed macrovison from a dvd. its not like someone who can copy a whole dvd on thier pc is then going to try and copy it to vhs.

It is speculated that it was a "preemptive strike" to try and protect their RIPGUARD technology coming out soon.

mrbass

21st June 2005, 18:46

Smartripper hasn't been developed for 3 years or so and it isn't dead. People still use it. So why do I get emails from people saying dvddecrypter is dead. I imagine people will continue using it for years to come.

ROUGHVIPER

21st June 2005, 18:54

it may not be dead but there won't be anymore updates from luk so as new encryptions are added it will become more and more "useless"

Mr. Monte

21st June 2005, 20:40

I disagree.....you can just use anydvd in background, with a few small adjustments to DVDD

Lazza

21st June 2005, 21:11

I disagree.....you can just use anydvd in background, with a few small adjustments to DVDD
Exactly. ;)

Yes it's very sad that DVDD has ceased but please let's stop all the hype that it will no longer be of use etc,etc,etc. AnyDVD & DVD43 & the Fentago (based in China! :D ) reange continue to be developed and are all great tools in their own right as is/was DVDD so why all the hype and panic? Especially as mrbass, Mr. Monte and others have pointed out that it still works on just about everything ever made anyway without even needing outside help from AnyDVD or the like.

Let's just all calm down and have a nice cup of tea to reagain *TRUE* perspective. ;)