synch problem - what is going on?

[windtrader]

I've spent a few days and many hours researching and trying to do something so simple but have not found the right methods as yet. All I want to do is to modify the placment and location of exisiting subs.

The source is a NTSC DVD, 29.976fps video, with ac3 audio and english subtitle track. Sound and video are in synch, no issues.

I have tried a number of tools including Subrip, DVD-Lab Pro, subtitle workshop to extract the subs and all seem generate the same problem- subs with out of synch timestamps.

The subs generated by these various tools is off by a lot. Here's a couple key points to compare HH:MM::SS

DVD / subrip TS / remuxxed DVD
first sub 02:37 / 02:50 / 02:51
near end 1:36:06 / 1:36:24 / 1:36:26
last 1:37:44 / 1:38:03 / past end

Movie length is 1:37:52, yet subrip creates timestamps beyond that length.

It is so jumbled up, I'm totally out of ideas. Thanks, Don

[Paddington]

If you only want to change an existing sup's position, I would suggest the following. Use:

DVDShrink to copy the movie to the HD
PGCdemux to demultiplex the movie into movie/audio and sup files
SubtitleCreator (tool/Manipulate) to reposition the sups
IfoEdit to put everything back together again

[windtrader]

Thanks for the tip. What I discovered is the movie has some sort of internal corruption. I used DVDShrink to make a copy with half the chapters and this version is messed up. It could have just copied the error from the original but I have lent it out sono way just now to check that out.

I did try to recreate the IFOs using IFOEDIT but it could not process the VOBS correctly. I also ran it back into Shrink and it could not open the movie. DVD2ONE could not properly read it either.

I will try PGCdemux and see what happens.

Thx

[windtrader]

Update - I did try PgcDemux but it could not process the IFO and cutoff half way through. I don't think there is much I can do to fix this one. thx anyway.

[ukendt]

In other words, the movie U have is a shrinked copy of a dvd9....
Makers didn't care to get vts before pubbing this movie, right?
Well, the only way is to demux video and audio with some kind of prog, if possible, and then make a new text file for subs from scratch.
If this is not possible U may try to rewrite GOP time code with dvdlab if the proggy will accept all of the files as vobs.
Sometimes dvddecrypter may "read" unproperly tagged ifo file but no warrantee...

[windtrader]

@Paddington -
I gave up on the real DVD I was trying to get modified subs into. Made a new short test DVD for experimenting. The folliwng comments are baed on this new test DVD.

I tested the steps you outlined. I received no error messages but the authored movie created by IFOEDIT using the author function has serious studders throughout of 200ms in length each. I must be overlooking some setting along the way. I tried this and that a number of times but never did get a non-jerking-studdering result.

Meanwhile, after a lot more experimenting, I found a procedure that works for me.

1) SUBRIP - read VOB for subtitles, write SRT file
2) DVDLAB-PRO
- demux audio and video from IFO/VOB into M2V, AC3.
(Note:no subtitles are demuxed in this tool)
- read VOB and report audio delay
- adjust audio AC3 for delay, create new AC3 file
- subtitle adjustments: font, timing, location, create SP1 subtitle file
- compile M2V, delay.AC3, SP1 assets

Amazingly -new DVD work.

Note - DVDLAB has a video preview feature and displays time. It did say GOP time and was working early on but it quit working along the way. I regenerated the GOP time in the M2V file and the time showed up again in the preview window.

@ukendt -
In other words, the movie U have is a shrinked copy of a dvd9.... Yes it is a DVD9, and you are probably right that the original has a bad DVD structure.

Well, the only way is to demux video and audio with some kind of prog, if possible, and then make a new text file for subs from scratch. If this is not possible U may try to rewrite GOP time code with dvdlab if the proggy will accept all of the files as vobs. After the test above, I tried the real DVD again. DVDLAB was able to demux the audio and video. Subrip was able to extract the subs from the original VOBS; the sub timing were off but that was to be expected. Ran the SRT sub file through subtitle workshop, made some text adjustments, and saved the file as a SRT. Used DVDLAB to adjust the sub timing. The GOP time was rewritten and that fixed the duration and GOP time problems. Adjusted the audio delay. Remuxed and it works!

Thanks for the guidance.

[Paddington]

@wintrader
I recently uploaded an updated version of my "How to add subtitles to a DVD" guide here:
http://subtitlecreator.sourceforge.net/AddingSubtitles2aDVD.htm

[windtrader]

@Paddy..

I tried again to use the subtitle creator/IFOEDIT method and it still studders. The problem must be in IFOEDIT, although I have used it a very long time and it has worked nearly perfectly. The demuxed elements are OK since I can author them in DVDAuthor just fine. The problem might also be DVDShrink creating incorrect IFOs.

If I have some extra time, I'll try another authoring tool just to confirm where the problem is occuring.

fyi - the rejig link in the new guide is not correct and the proggie crashes if you try to adjust a blank time field.

[CoNS]

windtrader, try MuxMan by MPUcoder. It's the best freeware authoring tool around.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=93553
http://www.mpucoder.com/Muxman/

[laserfan]

I agree w/CoNS. I had this very problem just a couple days ago; I had tried to mux w/IfoEdit which crashed, and then ReJig which resulted in odd stuttering.

My vote is for DVD Decrypter as best de-mux program, and MuxMan as best multiplexer! It re-muxed my files with the result of silky-smooth playback.

[CoNS]

As for demuxing, I highly recommend PgcDemux by jsoto (the author of VobBlanker):

Home/download: http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/others.htm
Doom9 thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84778

[windtrader]

@CoNS and laserfan,

Thanks for the pointers to the other tools. I've downloaded the mentioned program and will give them a try on the next subbed movie I rework. thx

ps -too bad about DVDDecrypter being gagged. :angry: