SRT subs in synch in Sub Workshop, out of synch after DVD compile

[Like the Cure]

I have subs in SRT format, and I've synched them up perfectly with my movie. After adding them to the DVD via the "How To Add NEW Subtitles to a DVD and Keep the Menu ! + First MOVIE Tutorial !" thread, they are completely out of synch. Actually, they are in synch towards the beginning of the movie, but fast forward to the end and the subs trail the dialogue by about 8 seconds. Does anyone know what could be causeing this, and how I can remedy the situation? THanks in advance.

<update>

Okay, I was trying to figure this out, and I realized that I actually synched the subs up to an AVI I made of the movie, but I didn't think it would make a difference, because the length of the AVI and single VOB file (from dvd decrypter) were exactly the same (2:01:13). But I opened the VOB file in sub workshop, and the subs are off, exactly like the compiled dvd. I also noticed that when the AVI is loaded, it says the FPS is 29.97, but for the VOB it says nothing. Is this a framerate problem thats causing my subs to be out of synch? How do I figure it out (or change the sub framerate)? Help would be great and much appreciated.

<update (again)>

My god... I've been trying to figure out How the VOB file could have the same length as the AVI but still be different (like, say, 1:30:15 in the AVI is a different scene than the same time in the VOB) and I discovered that the VOB isnt really the same length. In Sub workshop, i let it play, and when it gets to 2:01:13 (the supposed length) it continues on for about 20 more seconds. This completely baffles me.

[gurabli]

I have the same issue. NTSC DVD, subtitle in sync, but around the half of the movie the sub becomes out of sync.

[niamh]

I wouldn't rely on synchronization with VOB's in SW.As you go forward and backwards, it loses synch anyway. Of course that doesn't explain why you should have the problem in the finished DVD, but I don't do DVD's so I can't help you. :)

[Uruk-hai]

I've made more than 50 DVDs but never have your problem. The framerate in the SW does not really matter as long as you keep the input the same as the output. I create subtitiles in both srt2sup & lately subtitleCreator and mux them in Muxman & IFOEdit.

Did you join your srt inside SW?

[Like the Cure]

What do you mean by "join"? I just saved the srt then used it in DVDlabPro to make the subtitle stream. Subtitle workshop aside, I used subrip to get the Korean subs from the vob file (cause they are subbed correctly, just in Korean), and I compliled the DVD with them, unedited (so they should be in synch), but again, progressively off...

Hmmm...

[Uruk-hai]

As said, I never have any problem with SubtitleCreator & Muxman. Muxman supports multiple audio tracks and subtitle streams. The only drawback is that you can't have a menu.

Previously I have also used DVDAuthorGUI and GUI for DVDAuthor.Both support menu and take srt for subtitles. I never have sync problem with these tools either.

[castellanos]

To control if subs are in synch or not I use all the time BS Player, never Subtitle Workshop.
I frameserve whit Avisynth (Video and sub), then I open the avs file with BS Player and then also the audio file (external)... if the subs are in synch like that, they are going to be in an avi or in a new authored DVD.
This procces can be done with Media Player Classic as well.
Greetings! ;)

[ukendt]

As said, I never have any problem with SubtitleCreator & Muxman. Muxman supports multiple audio tracks and subtitle streams. The only drawback is that you can't have a menu.

Yes U can if U use Vobblanker


Like the Cure
If U synch subs to the vobs U shoudn't have this probl, furthemore, just remember that if U encoded with dropframe then U should "translate" subs to 30 fps(may be done in SW)

[Like the Cure]

Alright, so I can frameserve the M2V with AVIsynth? Is that what youre saying?

Also, I dont think this explains why the subs I rip directly from the DVD would be out of synch if I compile them with no editing at all. They should be the same as they were on the dvd, right?

[castellanos]

Better use DGMPGDec before, then you can frameserving (d2v)...
If you are using the original sub timmings from the DVD, there should be no problem... But I must confess, I had many time this problem, ripping the subs with SubRip in text mode, they where a little bit out of synch, but perfectly possible to get them in synch again because usually they appeared a little bit late.
But I don't know wich proccess you used to rip the subs.
Greetings! ;)

[ukendt]

Like the Cure
Would U mind writing, step by step, what U do wish to achieve and from what source and then, maybe, I will be able to help.
In other words:
1) What is the source? A DVD?
2) Do U wish a dvd5 from a dvd9 and with which subs?
3) Which proggies do U have to make ur project?
I'm having a hard time trying to understand all those things and I will appreciate an explanation: take ur time and answer all those questions.
Thank U:D

[Like the Cure]

1) The source is an NTSC DVD.

2) I'm going to make a dvd-R (its 4.7 gig max capacity, I think) from a dvd5 (i think, because its 4.36GB). I don't want to keep any of the subs, I'm trying to replace the English ones with properly translated ones I edited myself (its a japanese movie)

3) Well, I was following the "How To Add NEW Subtitles to a DVD and Keep the Menu ! + First MOVIE Tutorial !" guide, so I've got DVDlab-Pro to work with. I also have access to Scenarist, but that seems a bit advanced for what I'm trying to do (Which is end up with the same dvd I started with, just with replaced subtitles). I'm not sure what kind fo programs you want me to list here, so I'll leave it at that.

[ukendt]

1) Use Subrip(last available) to get the english subs out the shrinked movie(i.e shrink your pressed dvd9 into a dvd5 with your favorite shrinker, keep only the audio U want and at least 1 sub)
2)Check the times between the english text and your translation: every line should correspond to the translated one(times must be the same)
3)Use PGCDemux(freeware) to demux the main movie(everything in the shrinked movie)
4)Use muxman(last one, freeware) to remux the movie
U're done
If U wanna keep the menus, use vobblanker to mix the just remuxed movie with ur shrinked.
That's it.

[Like the Cure]

2) I cant have every line coorespond with one from the original subtitle because its really bad. As in, not timed correctly, leaves stuff out, really, its horrible.

[ukendt]

Then ur prob and the question U asked at the beginning of this thread is not really a prob, is it?:rolleyes:

[Like the Cure]

Umm, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're saying. Are you saying that what I've been asking about this entire thread isn't really a problem? I would think that having subtitles that will not synch up and not knowing how to remedy the situation is a bit of a problem. Maybe you could elaborate a bit on your post, ukendt?

[Like the Cure]

Well, I've figured out my problem. In other words, "Case Closed". I did some more experiments with different fps subs, and my conclusion is that to be synched correctly, I just have to pick the correct fps in DVDlab when it generates the sub stream (either real time 29.97 or non drop frame 30). I guess I overlooked this because it seemed so blatantly obvious; seriously, I thought thats what I did at the beginning, but I guess I screwed up the settings somewhere.

All I know is that I just made a dvd with 4 english subtitles, all the same, save for the fact that 2 were 29.97 fps and the other 2 were 30 fps. Then I just added all 4 streams in DVDlab alternating the fps setting (29.97/Realtime, 29.97/NonDropFrame, 30/Realtime, 30/NonDropFrame). The 2 that had matching fps were perfectly synched, and thats not suprising at all.

Again, I can't believe I missed something so simple. Thanks for all the suggestions and help anyways!

[KwanTai]

I have the EXACT same problem. The sub is perfectly synced in Subtitle Workshop, but after the compile in DVD-Pro it gets out of sync.

I have tried to save the sub in SB, both as 29,97 and 30. I check the right choice when adding the subs in DVD-Pro.

29,97 = Syncs great at the beginning but gets more and more out of sync... At the end it's about 5sec ahead.

30 = Same as the abowe, but gives the opostite effect. The subs drags behind instead.

This only seems to be an issue on NTSC DVD's/source. When I added subs to a PAL project it worked great.

The subs are ripped by myself in SubRip from a NTSC DVD. The source DVD/material is also in NTSC format.

What can be wrong here ? Driving me insane...

:thanks:

[mic]

If it's a NTSC DVD film, probably at 24 p with pulldown flags added to get mpg2 29.976. Could it be that pulldown being read incorrectly?

[KwanTai]

If it's a NTSC DVD film, probably at 24 p with pulldown flags added to get mpg2 29.976. Could it be that pulldown being read incorrectly?

Not sure I understand what you mean ? Could I configure DVD-Pro and try this ?

[mic]

Not sure I understand what you mean ? Could I configure DVD-Pro and try this ?
I was wondering if the sub was good, but the video was for some reason being played at a slightly wrong rate?

If it is a 24 fps progressive film, the pulldown flags are supposed to tell any player how to re-display frames to get 29.976 interlaced. Sometimes these flags are not exactly what they should be, or they can get altered or removed.

Neuron2 has made a few posts in the forums that using DGIndex, you can either strip the flags, getting a 24p video, or maintain them, staying at 29.976, and other programs (VirtualDub variants like VirtualDubMod) might change the flags.

If it's possible that this is your problem, I'd think you could create a DVD layout as you're doing now, but using the original mpg2 video from the DVD without changing it at all. Then if the subs worked properly, you'd know the problem was in the way you're handling the video. If it didn't help, then the problem is the subs.

[KwanTai]

Ok, thanks for the info.

Another question: I have the correct timings from the original DVD, the subs are in Chinese though. Tested to replace the first and last (Chinese) subs and they are synced perfect. How can I change the Chinese (subfile) characters to English in a simple way ? Is there a tool to use the time from the Chinese subfile but switch the text to English ?

[mic]

Another question: I have the correct timings from the original DVD, the subs are in Chinese though. Tested to replace the first and last (Chinese) subs and they are synced perfect. How can I change the Chinese (subfile) characters to English in a simple way ? Is there a tool to use the time from the Chinese subfile but switch the text to English ?
Ouch :(

Easiest way is to use English sub track, but if you had one of those, probably wouldn't ask. :) Sometimes you can find them on-line.

If you can't find subs, but have the subs in a text format, could manually type in English & delete Chinese -- I edit subs this way a lot in Word. Usually there's a line with the times above the text that you won't have to touch. If there is some translation program available, might use that -- if the on-line versions weren't so poor, I'd recommend one of those.

[KwanTai]

I think you might got me wrong. I do have the English subs too, but from another DVD release of the same movie. The Chinese subs comes from the DVD with the better visuals, so I want to use the English subs on that image/visual (cause the only subs available on the "good DVD" is only Chinese").

Would take ages to copy and paste each line, it's over 600 lines of text :D

[mic]

I think you might got me wrong. I do have the English subs too, but from another DVD release of the same movie. The Chinese subs comes from the DVD with the better visuals, so I want to use the English subs on that image/visual (cause the only subs available on the "good DVD" is only Chinese").

If it's the same movie, usually (or hopefully :)) the timing shouldn't be different. I think it makes sense for the studio owning the movie to have it digitized once. Then encode to mpg2 for different video standards. If you're lucky the subs should line up, might have to just set the start time. :)

If not, & if the subs are in a graphic format, you *might* be able to swap the file containing the timing. If you can get the subs into Subtitle Workshop, there is an option to use the timings from one file and use for another.

Where I think there might be problems is if the English subs have more entries then the Chinese, or the reverse. If that happened Subtitle Workshop can combine entries, though it can be a pain to find which ones to join.

Would take ages to copy and paste each line, it's over 600 lines of text :D
Copy & Paste -- Yes. :( But typing in doesn't take all that long. I just went through line by line correcting capital letters and such with a file that had 1092 entries -- many of those were 2 or 3 lines. It just seems terrible until you start. :p (then it is :devil: )

[KwanTai]

Thanks for all the input mic.

Unfortunately the English sub don't match the other DVD's video. It fits perfect at the beginning, but jumps ahead towards the end. I've tried many different things to sync the subs, no luck...

I will try out the "use the timings from one file and use for another" in Subtitle Workshop.