MuxMan 0.14 with navigation and highlights available

[mpucoder]

That's too high to be the first NAV pack (limit is 90000). But the first NAV pack value is copied to all later NAV packs in the same VOB at 433 (check SlPlay) "PTM of first video frame in first GOP"

[Matthew]

@mpucoder, didn't understand most of what you just said :o But I know it was fine before :) I remember you did some fixing after I sent you the funky subs for Die Another Day.

@D3s7, the version of vsconv.exe I am using has filesize 161280; crc 83E5DE5E

@mpucoder and @D3s7

To be sure I re-extracted the subs using the same verison of vsconv.exe and then authored using 1) MuxMan 14f and 2) MuxMan 12a (it's what I had in a backup). Both in GUI mode.

I attached comparison screenshots.

[mpucoder]

Could you also attach the bitmap for this sub?

[Matthew]

:):):)

[D3s7]

Looks like P & Bg are flipped

[mpucoder]

They are, and so are E1/E2, but that is not important as these are only arbitrary names. You'll notice the P is transparent.
The colors in the bitmap are exactly those in the .sst, meaning they do match.
Have you checked the palette you are using?

edit: I just muxed this using the .sst and bitmap you posted on top of a PAL still with both 0.12a and 0.14f and they are identical. I did not, however, play with the palette, just created the project in 0.12a, saved it, muxed it, then imported it into 0.14f and muxed it.

edit2: Just to be thorough I created the project again in 0.14f instead of loading the .mxp, and the result is the same.

[D3s7]

Almost appears that the color/contrast order is being applied to the wrong conversion color.

mathew, i have a new version of vsconv that has the ability of creating .sup files from the sub/idx - maybe that would shed a little light on a few things...

just run vsconv -f sup -i {idx} -o {dir\Prefix} - use that instead of the sst in muxman and we'll compare that

[Matthew]

@D3s7, the results are just fine (looks like the sst mux with 12a).

@mpucoder, I've attached the project file created with MuxMan 14f (file date 14/5 7:53 AM).

I have no idea why our output could differ but I'm not fiddling with any palletes here - GUI only.

[mpucoder]

There must be some illegal character in the .sst file, as the one I made by copy and paste from the forum is fine. But the .mxp file shows that the .sst file interprettor could not parse the file. So attach that instead of copy/paste, OK? And don't edit it first, that could possibly fix things.

[Matthew]

Here you go. It's unedited - I promise ;)

[mpucoder]

I find this very hard to believe, as not only the conversion rules are wrong, but so are the colors:
.sst
PA (0 0 255 - - - )
E1 (255 0 0 - - - )
E2 (0 0 0 - - - )

.mxp
Color 1(Pa)=ff0000 = & &
Color 2(E1)=0000ff = & &
Color 3(E2)=ffffff = & &

The .sst colors are blue, red, black while the corresponding .mxp colors are red, blue, white. It's as if there were 2 different .sst files involved.

Try this - load the .mxp, then replace the subs by opening the .sst again as sub track 1, and save.

[Matthew]

No change, and the project file is binarily identical.

The version of vsconv posted by D3s7 produces ssts/bmps that won't even be loaded at all.

[D3s7]

the sst given by the version of vsconv I shot should work fine for you.. in fact the sst syntax has been adjusted for proper use in muxman..

wierd indeed


EDIT: as a test, i took muxman 14 and your .sst w/ a BMP from one of my movies.. the muxed bmp looks exactly like I'd expect it to

can you post the .idx and .sup (if they are small enough) - or email them to me.. should be able to duplicate/test this w/ those 100%

[zilog jones]

Is there any way to "link" video and audio files together in some way? I was trying to make a DVD adding two m2v files together (which both had their own ac3 tracks separately), but I came across the problem that because the audio in the first video ended 232ms before the video ended, all the audio for the second video was out of sync.

I ended up having to cut the first video to the same length as the audio using Cuttermaran - fortunately the part without any audio was just black after a fade-out anyway.

[D3s7]

Is there any way to "link" video and audio files together in some way? I was trying to make a DVD adding two m2v files together (which both had their own ac3 tracks separately), but I came across the problem that because the audio in the first video ended 232ms before the video ended, all the audio for the second video was out of sync.

I ended up having to cut the first video to the same length as the audio using Cuttermaran - fortunately the part without any audio was just black after a fade-out anyway.

You can set the "delay" of the audio which will adjust it
the muxman documentation shows you how to do that

[zilog jones]

I know, but there's only one delay setting for the two audio tracks (as they both go into the same stream) so I assume that will only change the delay at the beginning of the DVD.

[D3s7]

what you'd need to do is create each video as a seperate segment (and put the appropriate audio in) which will allow you to set seperate delay values

Then in the layout, refer to the segments in cell 1 and cell2

[mpucoder]

Right, that is the proper way to synchronize things like this. But you will need 0.15 to do it, 0.14 will mux only one segment.

[mpucoder]

@Matthew - have you downloaded Muxman again to rule out a bad download?

[zilog jones]

Right, that is the proper way to synchronize things like this. But you will need 0.15 to do it, 0.14 will mux only one segment.
I thought so. But I don't have $5...

Seriously, I don't! Such is the life of a lazy student. :( But I'm looking for a job...

[Matthew]

@Matthew - have you downloaded Muxman again to rule out a bad download?

I redownloaded the zip and the match is 100 percent. I also reauthored again and same deal.

@D3s7, I've sent what you requested to the email address on the scenaid site.

I've also attached screenshots of muxman after loading new vsconv vs old vsconv produced ssts. (There are no error messages btw).

It might be getting to the stage where you think I'm crazy. I do have techsmith camtasia installed, so I can record a video of me opening the bmps, sst, and then authoring in order to establish proof of sanity :P

[SeeMoreDigital]

Hi mpucoder,

Would it be possible to increase the range of the of the "Delay" settings. The current range is between -300ms to +300ms.

Earlier today I used DGIndex to de-mux 5No clips (with different run times) from within the same .VOB file and otained audio streams at -320, -160, -448ms, -224 and -288.

However, when I used MuxMan to re-mux the -448 .AC3 stream to the .M2V stream, it was sadly out by miles :(


Cheers

[mpucoder]

It's strange, about the negative delays. Everyone wants the multiplexer to fix it when it is the demultiplexer's fault. Why is no one asking the demultiplexer authors to fix their programs? Do people really believe the DVD's were authored this way?
Large negative delay is caused by two different "problems". Neuron2 has, thankfully, addressed the first in DGIndex (formerly called DVD2AVIDG) which was the improper treatment of temporal sequence number and pts seen most often in closed gop's.
The second cause is not properly demultiplexing the audio at a seamless joint. In a seamless joint, because of the difference in video and audio buffer sizes and delays, there is audio from the previous cell. But demultiplexers don't look at the pts and throw away the frames that don't belong to the cell being ripped, instead they just demultiplex everything starting at the cell boundary. Not only does this result in excess audio at the start (the reason for the negative delay value) but missing audio at the end.
There are external programs to remove excess audio. And while I could increase the negative delay allowed (but not the positive currently) that would just perpetuate a bad practice. In reality, very few DVDs have any delay at all in the first cell, and no more than plus/minus half an audio frame thereafter.

[SeeMoreDigital]

If you remember, I mentioned some time ago that I often receive "Show Reel" DVD's from people within the media industry that contain multiple short clips of their work - TV/cinema commercials mostly, pop promos, short films and the like...

A typical TV/cinema commercial can run anything from between 10 to 90 seconds and usually a DVD arrives on my door step with several clips running one after another, burned into one .VOB and with no chapter breaks!

What I currently do is use DVD Decrypter to drag the .VOB file(s) onto my PC and then DGIndex to separate and select the start and end points for each clip.... But this creates individual de-muxed clips with very different audio delays!

If the delays are no greater than -300 to +300ms I can correct them perfectly with MuxMan... but not, if the are outside of those limits :(


Cheers

[mpucoder]

As I said, this is caused by not demultiplexing the audio properly. When extracting elementary streams, does it not make sense to extract the streams in sync? That is, to extract the audio that corresponds to the video. Why not go here (http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=5) and ask for a fix to the problem.

And if there are demultiplexers that do this properly, my apologies for not mentioning them - feel free to speak up.

[Matthew]

SeeMoreDigital, prompted by your post, and because I might find it handy, I wrote a batch file that will take all ac3 files in a directory and change the delay so that it will be between 0 and 31 ms (positive). e.g. -2 ms will become 30 ms (Maestro only permits positive delays). Similarly 35 ms would be switched to 3 ms. You get the picture. It uses delaycut so each file has a log telling you what was done. The new filename also includes the new delay. The input filename must be of the form [usual DVDAVI crap] DELAY [integer]ms.ac3 (i.e. don't rename DG output). Let me know if you want a copy.

As an aside, I know from experience that mplex/DVDAuthor will handle an 8000 ms positive delay just fine.

BTW mpucoder, I copied all the minority report assets to another (winxp) box which had never run Muxman before and the authored output was the same.

[mpucoder]

BTW mpucoder, I copied all the minority report assets to another (winxp) box which had never run Muxman before and the authored output was the same.
Very strange, as neither I or d3s7 can duplicate the problem.

This is more of a rhetorical question, but why do so many programs not work correctly in WinXP?
And for those who may wonder, I do not develop on WinXP, but I do test on it (occasionally). I have never been able to duplicate any of the errors that are WinXP only, except in a simulated "dirty memory" situation. That much I figured out - that a variant of WinXP does not zero memory (as it should) when allocated. Unfortunately my install, a squeaky clean Pro version, does not do that.

[Matthew]

What's more, before I did that, I tried it on a separate "backup" install of WinXP, which is on another physical drive and is barely used. The authored output was buggered then too. So I'm not sure the bug, or whatever it is, can be obsure.

[Paddington]

Just some general GUI suggestions for MuxMan 0.14f, which may have been addressed elsewhere, but I didn't have time to check.

When you load a video, have a checkbox specifying whether you want to add more (in my case, I only use one m2v file, so the dialog is unnecessary).
Set default audio languages to English
Set default video to both
Set default subtitle languages to english, and PS|LB|Wide checked
When loading the chapters, set the default filename to Celltimes.txt (output of PgcDemux and IfoEdit)
Can you include an option to load the original IFO file, like ReJig does, so the color palette is automatically copied from the first/largest/specifed PGC.
After muxing, don't close the program automatically (as a user might want to start another job)

Finally, when I open MuxMan (XP), it always opens to small, and I don't even see the buttons (see figure). Is it my settings, or does it have to do with the specified minimum window size.
http://img221.echo.cx/img221/5715/muxman1tz.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[mpucoder]

When you load a video, have a checkbox specifying whether you want to add more
How is that easier than closing the dialog? One click either way.
Set default audio languages to EnglishIt would be better to let the user select the default language and remember it. Not everyone would want English.
Set default video to bothIt is if the video is encoded for panscan, otherwise LB is chosen.
Set default subtitle languages to englishsame as audio
and PS|LB|Wide checkedThat doesn't make sense, most subpictures are not suitable for all three. No matter what the default for any button is, the law of probability says it is wrong half the time.
Can you include an option to load the original IFO file, like ReJig does, so the color palette is automatically copied from the first/largest/specifed PGC.That's been asked before, and is not a trivial task. Neither is it a feature needed for authoring original DVDs (the purpose of Muxman).
After muxing, don't close the program automatically (as a user might want to start another job)That is the behaviour starting with 0.16, it was necessary to close Muxman before as it was not re-entrant.

The last thing is caused by using large fonts, and will be fixed in 0.16

[Paddington]

How is that easier than closing the dialog? One click either way.
But it wouldn't open another window - by default, if muxman can remember the settings, I would even turn the option to add more m2v of.

It would be better to let the user select the default language and remember it. Not everyone would want English.
True, and it would be a great addition indeed.!

It is if the video is encoded for panscan, otherwise LB is chosen. ame as audio
Thanks for the explanation of these features. I wasn't sure what they meant, and the 'warning' muxman raises made me turn them all on. Could you maybe add a tooltip to these features with a brief description?

That's been asked before, and is not a trivial task. Neither is it a feature needed for authoring original DVDs (the purpose of Muxman).
Why is it so difficult to read the main (largest) PGC's color tablette? I mean, you allow it to be specified in your project files, and it can be easily extracted from an IFO (well, it's not easy, but there is a lot of open source that allows you to do it, such as SubRib (delphi), SubtitleCreator (C#), etc., and I am sure you are very familiar with the DVD structure).

One final question: wouldn't it be easier for you to create project files in XML? It allows for an easier retrieval of separate nodes (you just use a parser to read everything into a DOM object, or alternatively, use sax parsing), and you can use a DTD or schema to validate scripts...

[Paddington]

Can I create a new menu with MuxMan?

@mpucoder: I am currently experimenting with a simple DVD authoring wizard to add a new subtitle to a movie in SubtitleCreator, using PgcDemux for demuxing and MuxMan (of course) for muxing everything back together (SC creates a mpx project file, and calls MuxMan in the bg). I am really impressed with the number of options that you allow to specify in the project file, which is overwhelming at the same time too.

When I use DVD Shrink reauthoring mode and keep only the movie, SC can create the appropriate script to do create a new movie. Alternatively, I can use full disk backup mode in DVD Shrink, but that also keeps all the extras. An additional complication is that sometimes the streams are indirectly addressed (according to CoNS). My question to you is what would be the best way to actually keep the menu too?

CoNS explained me the way he normally does it manually, using VobBlanker and PgcEdit, but this is not very easy at all. As MuxMan is so powerful, I was wondering if it wouldn't be easier to create a new menu from scratch using MM. Basically, my ideal solution is as follows:

I want to have a main menu with three options: chapters, subtitles, audio (if more than one).
The subtitle page could be a static bitmap (preferably from the movie, with a button for selecting each subtitle as specified in the mxp). The same applies to the audio page.
The chapters should be displayed as they are on the source DVD.

That's all. Can you, or someone else, please indicate whether it is possible at all to create menus with MM, and if so, can it do what I have described above?

[E-Male]

request:
could you add CLI parameters for making a movie only dvd without a project file (parameters for specifying video and audio(s) directly)
it doesn't matter if it is more limited than the gui or project files, it would be just for very easy integration

[Alex-2k1]

When be free the version 0.15?

[mpucoder]

E-Male: I put this on the todo list, but there are some very high priority items before it.

Alex-2k1: 0.15 will be free someday, it depends on how long it takes to get the next version ready for vip users.

[E-Male]

understood

[cmsoliveira]

Hi,

One question to the pro's :p

muxman can only support 32 subtitle stream, however when i backup some of my dvd's i have more than 32 streams (using ifoedit i have something like this (http://dadosrb.com.sapo.pt/Image1.jpg) )

My question is, can muxman recreate the subtiltle stream like the original, like the image shown above?

Thnx.

[mpucoder]

There are only 32 subpicture stream ID's, and your screenshot shows you are using exactly 32. (some are used more than once)

[cmsoliveira]

@mpucoder,

you're right. They are used more than once, and i know how to place them has you explained here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=648903&postcount=31).

But using the method described above, muxman gives an error saying that the project has more than 32 streams (subtitles), or something like it (i'm at work, far far away from my pc).

Don't know if it matters, i'm using version 0.14g.

Thnx for the help.

[D3s7]

I believe you need to use 15 if your going to have that many (i was thinking 14 stopped at 8)

[mpucoder]

The problem is the arrangement of streams is illogical. It really looks to me like an authoring error in the original, or IfoEdit is reporting things wrong. The first 4 tracks use 2 streams, and the rest use 3. 0x24 is both French and Portuguese, 0x25 is French and Nederlands, etc. And at this time you cannot assign streams, it is done automatically by language and display mode.
My guess is the third streams are not correct, and if you ignore them the layout makes sense. Knowing the display mode of the video would help verify that.

[cmsoliveira]

@mpucoder,

i don't know if this is what you asked, but the video is 16x9 letterboxed.

Actually, this isn't the first case i've encountered. I have more dvd's (originals, of course) that are authored like this. And some of then have the audio track like that too.

[mpucoder]

A 16:9 auto-letterboxed can have only 2 streams per, so the third is from bad authoring, you can ignore it.

[cmsoliveira]

@mpucoder

Hi, is not my intention to bump this thread but just want to say that you're right . I did ignore the "extras" subtitles, and after muxing everything work perfectly.

Thnx a lot for the help and keep up the excelent work :thanks:

[2COOL]

How does the reset button in import file list for audio work?

[mpucoder]

It doesn't (and should not be enabled) - you cannot set duration times for audio. In 0.16 all the controls for duration were removed from the audio version of the list manager.

[Mystiqq]

Originally i ask this in this thread:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=704419#post704419

Im trying to add new chapterpoints, which doesnt have any by default, for reauthored episodic DVD with Muxman. The result is very odd. The muxed video doesnt have chapters but the whole episode ends right after first chapter.

VTST 1 , 1 TTN 1 (0:33) Title 1 - Chapters: 1, Programs: 1, Cells: 1

********** pre commands:
********** post commands:
********** cell commands:



Playback time: 00:00:33.07 (at 25 fps)
PG Playback mode: sequential
PUOs: 0 (0x00000000)
NextPGCN: 0
PrevPGCN: 0
GoUpPGCN: 0
PGC Still Time: 0
Audio stream 1 status: 0x00008000 (stream=0)
Audio stream 2 status: 0x00008100 (stream=1)
Subpic stream 1 status: 0x80000000 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=0, letterbox=0, pan&scan=0)
Subpic stream 2 status: 0x81000000 (streams for 4:3=1, wide=0, letterbox=0, pan&scan=0)
Subpic stream 3 status: 0x82000000 (streams for 4:3=2, wide=0, letterbox=0, pan&scan=0)

Chap. Prog. Cell Type Layer Res- Still Cell Playback End Entry First Last Last VOB Cell
(PTT) Flags Break tric- Time Cmd. Time Time VOBU ILVU VOBU VOBU ID ID
ted. sector End Start End

0 1 1 1 2 yes no 0 0 00:00:33.07 00:00:33.07 0 0 16142 16318 1 1

The same remuxed episode will work without the chapter points with no problems, and even has new subtitle stream that works, but when i add the chapterpoints it just messes things up completely.

Chapters:
825
2950
5460
7459
8975
13050
16375
19930
23600
26075
28833
32400

These infos are from the muxmans remuxed file and not yet replaced/integrated with vobblanker with the original source, since i doubt it would work even if i did that.

Originally i made the chapters in DVDlab but noticed that the format it saves them in isnt correct for muxman so i loaded those in Subtitle Workshop and made custom format and saved the times in frames instead.

Any suggestions? I thought this was pretty straight forward thing since Muxman seemed to support chapters directly. Perhaps im doing something wrong?


Ive tryed everything i can think of. As you can see, the file ends right after the intro sequence where i have the first chapter placed. Also ive tryed using different chapter files, with different number of frames/chapters.

Perhaps im missing something here?

[mpucoder]

You should also post the MuxMan log, found at c:\muxman.log

[Mystiqq]

Oh, there it is.

MuxMan version 0.14g
Opened script file C:\***\PGC1.mxp
Accepted video C:\***\VideoFile.m2v size = 1025933979
Accepted audio C:\***\AudioFile_80.ac3
Accepted audio C:\***\AudioFile_81.ac3
Opened sub 1 file C:\***\Subpictures_20.sup.
Opened sub 2 file C:\***\Subpictures_21.sup.
Opened sub 3 file C:\***\Custom_subpic1.sup.
14:15:53 Begin multiplex.
Maximum audio duration 65992 fields.
Starting scene Segment_1_scn1 at 00:00:00:00
Starting scene Segment_1_scn2 at 00:00:33:07, requested for 00:00:33:00
Starting scene Segment_1_scn3 at 00:01:58:07, requested for 00:01:58:00
Starting scene Segment_1_scn4 at 00:03:38:20, requested for 00:03:38:10
Starting scene Segment_1_scn5 at 00:04:58:09
Starting scene Segment_1_scn6 at 00:05:59:08, requested for 00:05:59:00
Starting scene Segment_1_scn7 at 00:08:42:04, requested for 00:08:42:00
Starting scene Segment_1_scn8 at 00:10:55:00
Starting scene Segment_1_scn9 at 00:13:17:14, requested for 00:13:17:05
Starting scene Segment_1_scn10 at 00:15:44:11, requested for 00:15:44:00
Starting scene Segment_1_scn11 at 00:17:23:11, requested for 00:17:23:00
Starting scene Segment_1_scn12 at 00:19:13:09, requested for 00:19:13:08
Starting scene Segment_1_scn13 at 00:21:36:04, requested for 00:21:36:00
SeqEnd at 3D268297.
Bytes remaining in buffer = 0.
14:20:14 End multiplex.
Bitrate - avg: 6756295, min: 2560000 (lba 204127), max: 11229866 (lba 5102).
Shortest GOP has 2 fields, longest GOP has 24 fields.
Fields: 65994, VOBU: 2558, Sectors: 544281.

I removed all path infos.

[mpucoder]

Well, the log shows MuxMan created 13 cells. These can be used as programs and then as chapters if the PGC statements are correct. If the mxp file was made by the GUI (that is you used the GUI to select the video, audio, and sub files plus import the chapter list) this will be done automatically. If you imported the chapter list after saving the project the PGC will not have the correct statements (saving the project causes the automatic generation of needed structures like the PGC, once created they are never changed).